How to Choose a PR Agency

Summary

Summary of “How to Choose a PR Agency” – The Business of Fashion Podcast

Release Date: January 14, 2025
Host: The Business of Fashion
Guest: Haley Crawford, BoF Marketing Correspondent

---

Introduction

In the episode titled “How to Choose a PR Agency”, hosts Brian Baskin and Sheena Butler Young delve into the critical role Public Relations (PR) agencies play in the fashion industry. They are joined by Haley Crawford, BoF’s Marketing Correspondent, who provides expert insights into selecting the right PR partner for fashion brands of all sizes.

The Evolving Role of PR Agencies

Haley Crawford begins by defining the modern functions of PR agencies in the fashion sector:

“PR agencies are brands' representatives in the public eye. Their goal is to bring in expertise, networks, and knowledge to help build buzz around a brand, get their name out there, and help shoppers discover them.”
[01:26]

Crawford emphasizes that PR agencies now handle a broad spectrum of activities beyond traditional media coverage, including influencer collaborations, social media strategies, affiliate marketing, and event organization. This expansion reflects the dynamic nature of brand engagement in both physical and digital spaces.

Shifts in PR Operations and Industry Needs

Brian Baskin prompts Crawford to discuss why the topic is particularly relevant now:

“PR agencies were really dedicated to getting brands mentions in more traditional editorial formats like magazines. Today, PR firms have taken on a much broader set of capabilities.”
[02:17]

Crawford explains that the digital transformation has necessitated PR agencies to adapt, enabling them to represent brands across various platforms where consumers interact and discover new labels.

Case Study: Elena Velez and Mode World

One of the standout examples discussed is designer Elena Velez and her collaboration with PR agency Mode World:

“Elena Velez... partnered with Mode World because they share the same values. They help protect her creative ideas and advocate for her, enabling her to pursue collaborative and commercial opportunities.”
[03:14]

Velez’s partnership with Mode World illustrates how a PR agency can effectively amplify a brand’s unique voice and facilitate unconventional collaborations, such as her recent tie-up with OnlyFans for her spring 2025 collection.

Navigating PR for Emerging Brands

Sheena Butler Young raises a pertinent question about when an emerging brand should seek PR representation:

“Sheena: When does a brand like, of that size start looking for PR?”
[04:08]

Haley Crawford responds by highlighting that even emerging brands benefit significantly from early PR engagement to elevate their storytelling and manage public perception, especially when navigating controversial or high-profile events.

Transitioning PR Agencies: Todd Snyder’s Example

The discussion shifts to larger brands, using Todd Snyder as a case study:

“Todd Snyder switched to KCD to expand into the European market, leveraging KCD’s international presence to establish a physical footprint in Europe.”
[07:34]

Crawford notes that the decision to transition to a larger, more globally equipped PR firm often aligns with a brand's growth objectives and geographical expansion plans.

Challenges for Smaller Brands in Securing PR Support

An Instagram comment is referenced, voicing concerns about smaller brands struggling to attract top-tier PR agencies:

“Haley Crawford: Some of the biggest PR firms don’t automatically dismiss small brands. For instance, Purple PR partnered with Willy Chavarria early in his career and continued to support his growth.”
[06:16]

Crawford reassures that major PR firms are open to nurturing small brands, provided there is a mutual fit and the brand demonstrates potential for growth.

Essential Skills for Modern PR Professionals

Sheena Butler Young inquires about the necessary skill sets for PR professionals today, considering the high turnover in the industry:

“Sheena: What are the skill sets today that make someone successful in PR and want to stick in the industry for the long haul?”
[11:25]

Haley Crawford emphasizes the importance of relationship building, community creation, and adaptability to emerging platforms:

“Publicists today have to build communities around the brand and stay on the cutting edge of where people are discovering and interacting with brands.”
[12:56]

Passion for the brands they represent and the ability to creatively leverage connections across industries are also highlighted as crucial attributes.

Identifying Red Flags in PR Agencies

The conversation addresses potential pitfalls when selecting a PR agency:

“If you're only paired with junior staff or the agency is overloaded with clients, you might not get the desired results.”
[08:38]

Crawford advises brands to thoroughly vet agencies by asking detailed questions about team experience, past projects, and client satisfaction. Additionally, she recommends initiating short-term projects before committing to long-term contracts to identify any red flags.

Avoiding Over-Promising by PR Agencies

Sheena Butler Young brings up concerns about PR agencies overpromising their capabilities:

“Haley Crawford: Ensure alignment on goals and KPIs. If the agency isn't delivering, it requires a conversation.”
[17:53]

Crawford underscores the necessity of clear, measurable objectives and maintaining open communication to manage expectations and assess agency performance effectively.

The Future of PR in the Face of Emerging Challenges

Looking ahead, Crawford discusses the evolving landscape shaped by potential platforms changes, such as a TikTok ban, and increasing consumer fatigue with traditional advertising:

“PR agencies will need to find more creative ways to break through the noise, such as unexpected partnerships and immersive events.”
[20:57]

She highlights the critical role of human and creative touch in an era dominated by AI advancements, advocating for authentic brand storytelling to engage audiences deeply.

Final Advice: Building a Symbiotic PR Relationship

As the discussion wraps up, Crawford offers key advice for brands seeking PR partnerships:

“Think of it as a job interview. Can you see them being part of your in-house team? Do they feel passionate about your brand story?”
[24:16]

She emphasizes the importance of establishing a genuine rapport and ensuring that the PR agency feels like an organic extension of the brand’s internal team. This synergy is essential for effectively representing and amplifying the brand’s narrative.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with Brian Baskin thanking Haley Crawford for her invaluable insights and encouraging listeners to read her detailed article, “How to Choose a PR Agency”, available on the Business of Fashion website.

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Notable Quotes:

• “PR agencies are brands' representatives in the public eye... helping shoppers discover them.” – Haley Crawford [01:26]
• “Mode World really helped her do that. They helped protect her image, her creative identity.” – Haley Crawford [04:21]
• “We have to really feel that brand story, feel connected to the spirit of the brand.” – Haley Crawford [12:56]
• “Think of it as a job interview. Could you see them being part of your in-house team?” – Haley Crawford [24:16]

This comprehensive discussion offers a nuanced understanding of the pivotal role PR agencies play in the fashion industry, the evolving demands placed upon them, and strategic considerations for brands at every stage of their growth.

Transcript

[Brian Baskin]

Hello and welcome to the Debrief from the Business of Fashion, where each week we delve into Our most popular BoF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm executive editor Brian Baskin.

[Sheena Butler Young]

And I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young. When the designer Elena Velez collaborated with OnlyFans for a recent show, it was the kind of unexpected tie up she's quickly becoming known for. But she had help in the form of PR agency Mode World, who she'd hired while planning her spring 2025 collection. Whether you're an emerging designer just starting to get some heat or one of the biggest brands on the planet, which PR firm to hire and how to use them is one of the most important decisions you can make. Recently, BoF marketing correspondent Haley Crawford's article How to Choose a PR Agency shed some much needed light on what publicists and PR firms actually do when a brand needs one and how that relationship can change as they grow. She's with us today to break this all down. Hi, Hailey. Welcome to the Debrief podcast.

[Haley Crawford]

Hi, Sheena. Hi, Brian. Thanks so much for having me on.

[Brian Baskin]

Thanks for joining us, Hailey. We're going to get into what is changing about pr, but first I think we need to define the terms. Sheena talked before about Blake Lively and that whole situation, but that's not really what we're talking about here, right? Not usually. What do fashion brands actually use PR firms for?

[Haley Crawford]

PR agencies are brands representatives in the public eye. So their goal is to really bring in their expertise, their network and their knowledge of the space to help build buzz around a brand, get their name out there, and help shoppers discover them. So this can be securing traditional media coverage, but it can also involve influencer and celebrity connections, facilitating social media strategy, affiliate marketing, and helping organize events like fashion shows. So the role of a PR agency is pretty broad and it's getting broader, but really they're provid providing brands with their network and their knowledge to help get their name out there and share their story really effectively.

[Brian Baskin]

And fashion PR's been around forever basically as long as there's been a fashion industry. But there's a reason you wrote this article now, right? A lot has been changing in how these firms operate and the needs that brands and designers have for them.

[Haley Crawford]

Absolutely. So in the past, PR agencies were really dedicated to getting brands mentions in more traditional editorial formats like magazines, the holy grail being a mention in a Vogue or Harper's Bazaar. So today PR firms have taken on a way broader set of capabilities. So this allows them to represent brands across the full spectrum of physical and digital spaces where shoppers are really interfacing with them and discovering them. So this can be influencer relationships, this can be events. Brandimage today is coming together across a really wide variety of platforms. And so the agency's role is to facilitate telling a cohesive story across all these facets.

[Brian Baskin]

I think a really good example of this from your story was Elena Velez, who very much has come up in this world and has used the Internet to great effect to amplify her brand. And my understanding is that the PR firm she works with has had a big role in helping to shape that. Tell us how that works.

[Haley Crawford]

So Elena Velez, a designer who has a brand of same name, she is known for her more controversial and conversation provoking shows and events. So basically she decided to partner with Mode, which is an agency that she felt a lot of kinship with because they share the same values. Even she and the founder of Mode World are both from the Midwest, so she felt really connected to them. And when I was speaking with her, she highlighted that they're not afraid to get dirty with her and can really help her interface with the public and protect her, protect her creative ideas and also help advocate for her when she's trying to really translate some of these raw creative ideas. So. So I think that ability to understand and vouch for her has really helped her pursue more collaborative opportunities, commercial opportunities, and has been really beneficial for a brand that's a little more punk and different from what's maybe more traditionally accepted in the fashion conversation.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Now is Elena, would you call her an emerging brand or like, not? She's not established. Right. Like, when does a brand like, of that size start looking for pr? Like, what point in her journey was she on when she got to mold World?

[Haley Crawford]

So I think she's still an emerging brand, but really ahead of this new collection and presenting at Fashion Week in September, she was really looking for someone who could help take her story, her storytelling, and her ideas to the next level. I think there was some controversy surrounding her last show, which highlighted Gone with the Wind in a sort of salon style space. And so I think she wanted to be able to be, in her words, more galvanizing and maybe bringing people together more with this show than divisive. So Mode World really helped her do that. They helped protect her image, her creative identity, but kind of bring it to the next step and make it a little more commercial in this show.

[Brian Baskin]

I'd say that's so interesting because I think Both elements of that strategy have worked for her. The courting controversy and the more not quite traditional, but a little more in that lane type of bigger show. And it seems like the type of firm that she hired probably has helped make those decisions and kind of perfect that strategy.

[Haley Crawford]

Yeah, absolutely. I think they are definitely a young, hip, you could call them agency, so they understand the type of identity she represents, but they also have the reach that they can also help facilitate even more collaborations for her. In this last show, she actually interestingly partnered with OnlyFans. And so they helped kind of bring that to life, which is really unexpected, expected for fashion, but they did it in a way that was, you know, accepted and commercial and on a larger scale fashion show.

[Brian Baskin]

Definitely not traditional in that case.

[Haley Crawford]

Definitely not.

[Brian Baskin]

We had an interesting comment on Instagram to your story, which speaks to this. It was from a designer, I'm thinking probably smaller than Elena Velez, like maybe just starting out, who said, I feel it's more what PR agency chooses you as a brand or designer, I think saying rather than which PR agency was he choosing? He said it's harder to get an amazing PR agency to rep smaller brands. Did you find that was the case in your reporting?

[Haley Crawford]

Yeah. So, interestingly, when I spoke to some of the biggest PR firms, like the KCDs of the world, they really said that small brands shouldn't automatically assume that a PR firm doesn't want to partner with them because of their size. Speaking to Purple pr, for instance, they mentioned that Willy Chavarria, who just won the menswear award, Designer of the Year at the CFDA in 2024, they partnered with Willie about seven years ago, really early on in his career, and they've stuck with him throughout. And that really proves the journey of a small designer or a small brand partnering with a large firm and seeing great success from it. Conversely, a larger brand might want to go with a more niche boutique agency if they're looking for a really targeted, really specific skill set for one particular type of event they're hoping to produce or a specific goal they're trying to achieve.

[Brian Baskin]

And then another example in your story was Todd Snyder, who you were saying Elena Velez kind of hopped from non traditional to non traditional on just a bigger scale. But what he did was he had a smaller PR firm, Linda Gaunt, who he'd worked with since launching in the early 2010s. And then recently he switched to KCD, which is pretty much as big as it gets in fashion pr. When is it right for a brand to make that move? To go all in on that traditional PR model.

[Haley Crawford]

Yeah, absolutely. So for in Todd Snyder's case, they were really trying to expand into the European market. Right. It's this all American brand. And while they had a great experience with Linda Gaunt, I think working with kcd, who actually have offices and physical locations in Europe, really helped them to take it to the next level as they, you know, following a successful fashion show in Italy, they really decided that it was time to have a physical footprint and presence in Europe. So partnering with a PR agency who's actually on the ground and has experience in those spaces is really helpful for a brand looking to move in that direction.

[Brian Baskin]

Although there was another Instagram comment that spoke to that as well, which is someone said having the quote, unquote, best agency in the world means nothing if your account is handed to junior staff who will leave the agency within six months of their hire. PR has always been and always will be about people. And they put that in all caps. And I'm imagining Todd Snyder, that's a big enough brand. They're not putting the intern on that one. But that could be a risk, Right, For a smaller brand working with a bigger agency, that they don't get that same level of attention and care.

[Haley Crawford]

Definitely. This is something that came up in a lot of my conversations, and I think something important for brands to do and to consider when they're speaking with potential agencies is to ask a lot of questions and really find out who exactly is going to be working on their account. What projects have they worked on in the past? Have they worked with similar brands? Have they worked on projects or creative that they have found really exciting and interesting and really making sure that the team members they're going to be working with have that experience level that they're looking for. And I think also speaking with former clients of the PR agency can be super helpful as well in terms of getting a feel for how was their experience, who did they work with and who did they like working with? And one last thing I'll add is making sure they don't have too many other clients on their roster. Making sure they have the time and attention to really help support your brand.

[Sheena Butler Young]

We'll be back with more of the debrief right after this.

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[Haley Crawford]

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[Sheena Butler Young]

I was thinking when Brian was reading that last comment about another experience I had early in my fashion editorial career. Every Friday we would get emails like me and other other editors that would be from a PR person saying that they were moving on to another agency. Like it became a going joke. Every Friday you would get an email from a PR person whose name you didn't even recognize saying moving on and they were going to another agency. It seems that PR has a lot of turnover in terms of talent. What are the skill sets today that make someone successful in PR and probably want to stick in the industry for the long haul?

[Haley Crawford]

So I think, you know, we mentioned this before, relationship building and the ability to build and maintain relationships has always been such a central skill in pr, but it looks totally different today than it did a couple years ago, right? So being well connected in the past may have helped to secure editorial mentions, but today publicists really have to go above and beyond to use those relationships. And there's that relationship building skill to build communities around the brand. And I think what really helps there is being passionate about the brands that you choose to work with as well. All the PR firms that I spoke with really said we have to really feel that brand story, feel connected to the spirit of the brand. So I think doing that really helps the brand or the PR agency, sorry, help dig in, understand the brand's story and effectively communicate it. That can really help to galvanize people and kind of rally them around the brand story. Going that extra mile, especially in building a 360 brand story across all the new facets that are involved with building.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Brands today through PR.360 brand story. I love that phrase. I feel like there are so many new elements. We talked about this earlier, but like the influencer world, like programmatic ads, there's so many different ways that you have to now engage. Where 10 years ago it was like taking an editor to coffee and talking about a brand launch. How have some of those things made the work more challenging and maybe in some cases more interesting? So it's your. Actually one facet of your job might be courting an influencer for a brand relationship or executing a collaboration. That didn't seem to be the case. Maybe even five years ago.

[Haley Crawford]

Absolutely. I think people working in PR today have to think way more creatively about how they're using their connections to build crossroads between industries. Like we mentioned before, Elena Velez and Onlyfans, or maybe building a connection. For instance, I spoke with Savannah Engel, who founded Savvy, another PR firm, and she connected one of her clients, a design duo, Tanner Fletcher, with people in the music space to dress them for shows from Troye Sivan to Casey Musgraves. So thinking more creatively in that way, but also to your point, I think it's just a much broader skill set. You have to have an understanding of affiliate marketing, of social media strategy, of new and emerging platforms. Whether that was substack a year or two ago as it started to grow the podcast world. So really always staying on the cutting edge of where people are discovering brands and interacting with them the most and how you can drive the most engagement in those spaces.

[Brian Baskin]

Yeah. And that's also driven some changes in the PR world. There's been a lot of consolidation, and I imagine that has to be a big part of it. I mean, that's the reason the independents seems to have bought literally every boutique firm, because now they have firms that specialize in literally every aspect of the business and who have connections in music and art and sports. And, you know, anywhere that a brand wants to go, they can now claim to take them. And I imagine it must be hard. You know, Savannah is so good at her job that I'm not worried about her. But, you know, it must be hard for smaller agencies to promise that kind of service.

[Haley Crawford]

Absolutely. I think the beauty of a larger firm is really that service stack that they can offer and they can really have those sort of complimentary services, whether it's celebrity dressing and, you know, event management and fashion show hosting. But maybe for a smaller brand, something to think about is what is your niche? What is your extremely unique skill set where you can stand out? Do you specifically help young brands host their first fashion show? Maybe that's your skill set. Or maybe you are highly focused on getting brands interesting collaborations or maybe you're very focused on helping brands develop their strategy for new and emerging social media platforms. Something to think about with a potential TikTok ban coming up. So really kind of thinking of what your specific niche is. And another benefit obviously to a more boutique agency is the attention that you can give to your clients. So not being overwhelmed maybe with so many different clients and being able to provide that deep understanding of the brand and really feeling like you're part of the team essentially and having that one to one connection.

[Sheena Butler Young]

I imagine this is going to look different for every brand and depending on your size and your category and all of that. But are there red flags to look out for when you're vetting a PR agency? And I also hear you on that Instagram comment, Brian, that sometimes it's the PR agency that's holding the cards and making the decision of collaborating with a brand or taking on a brand. But if you're having a conversation as a brand with a PR agency about establishing a relationship, are there things you should look out for? That's maybe I don't want to go with that brand or that I don't want to go with that agency.

[Haley Crawford]

Absolutely. I think as we mentioned before, if you're getting the sense that you're only going to be paired up with members of the team with the least experience or people again, who are overloaded with clients, you might not get the results you want. You really want to ensure your PR partner not only has experience in your specific area, but also that they have the time to commit to sharing your story and that you won't get put on the back burner again. Of course, speaking with others about their experience I think will immediately raise some of those red flags. And you know, I've spoken to some brands who have decided to work with PR agencies on a project before committing to a longer term contract. And that's a pretty good strategy to determine any red flags before getting into anything longer term.

[Sheena Butler Young]

What about over promising? I've heard like I talked to a lot of emerging Designers about like paying a hefty retainer for a PR agency because they're promising them. An example that someone told me recently, a jewelry designer was like she was promised one ad placement or one editorial placement per week. So there's a lot of that. I imagine that's happening where agencies are looking to get clients and they're just saying, we're going to give you the world and the stars and the moon. Have you seen over promising as a factor here too?

[Haley Crawford]

I do think you need to make sure you're hyper aligned on goals and the KPIs you're trying to achieve. And those KPIs look different today than they did 10 years ago. But I think keeping close track of those KPIs and if the PR agency isn't delivering, of course that requires a conversation.

[Brian Baskin]

And I think that's where you do hear from a lot of brands, particularly smaller ones, saying, oh, I feel like my agency ripped me off. They billed me for a bunch of stuff I didn't need and didn't deliver the stuff that I did. And I think a lot of times that is the case. Sometimes it could just be the brand didn't have the heat that they were expecting. And there's no amount of PR that's going to make a bad, you know, a bad designer look like a good one. One thing that's been interesting for me when I ask designers about their PR representation is some of them will say, oh, my firm, they have this playbook. And they, and they, they say this in glowing terms. And they love that. There's essentially just like a guide for growing your brand and taking what makes you special and amplifying it to the world. And then I have others who roll their eyes and say, oh, they have a playbook. And they say the exact same thing. And they're really mad about it. Cause they feel like it's generic and it's not going to help them. What is the best way to unlock that magic? Playbook or no Playbook?

[Haley Crawford]

I think having a PR agency that really feels like a genuine organic extension of your team, Playbook or no Playbook is what's going to enable you to plan together and collaboratively put together those goals that you're super aligned on, that creative synergy and having someone that you feel like you can bounce ideas off and brainstorm together, that's how you're going to create your plan together. Especially when things are changing as quickly as they are today. An example I love comes back to savvy. Again, I spoke with one of her clients, Meredith Stockline, who is the founder of a bridal studio called Line. And she was talking about how savvy they were friends before. So Savannah really understands her. But being able to kind of dig into the brand founders energy and spirit and sort of how that can translate into the types of activations they're putting together. So she hosted for instance, a dinner party that was. She just sent out a text to various people in the industry. There were no photographers and it was a mix of people from people in the nightlife scene to tech, rather than just a strict list of bridal buyers and stylists. So I think that effortless synergy that almost is unspoken is really the goal and that takes time and really comes from sitting together, getting to know each other on that personal level. And I think then together you can sort of build a plan that works for your brand and feels super organic, super effortless.

[Brian Baskin]

There's probably a whole podcast to be done on the art of throwing a great fashion dinner. I mean there really so much thought goes into those. I know, you know, I know bofs for sure and the ones I've attended.

[Sheena Butler Young]

So we're sort of sitting on the cusp of this TikTok ban. How do you see the PR landscape evolving in the year ahead? That's one factor. Are there any other factors that can kind of shake things up or that, you know, is keeping a PR person up at night this year?

[Haley Crawford]

Absolutely. I mean, I think a big thing we've seen is consumer fatigue. Right when it comes to advertising. And I think PR agencies are just going to be tasked with getting increasingly creative, not only if they have to move away from TikTok, but also just coming up with new and exciting ways to break through the noise. And this can be by facilitating an unexpected partnership like we talked about before, bringing events to life that really bring consumers that much closer to the brands they love or helping brands sort of expand to get in front of new audiences. That might be unexpected, but also really engage with the brand. So that human and creative touch is going to become just so important, especially as AI continues to evolve in the year ahead.

[Brian Baskin]

So I have one more Instagram comment. I'm going to read my last one, I promise, which is 95% of fashion PR is stuck in the 90s. An arrogant gatekeeping style of interaction with the press, which is very harsh. I think that was true a few years ago for sure. To what extent do we think that's still true today?

[Sheena Butler Young]

Something that I've heard from people that fire PR agencies, like a lot of the talent in the industry, let's say they're getting rid of their agency or their publicist, is that they feel more equipped to handle their press relationships than they think the agency is. And whether the extent to which that's true or not is neither here nor there. But I do see one downside of an ineffective or maybe not as competent agency is the kind of over manage their client's relationship with the press and operating out of a sense of fear rather than having the relationship feel genuine. And that you trust your client not to make a fool of themselves like some PR people make you feel like they're protecting this client, that will just royally mess everything up. And I can see how that causes tension on both sides. And if there is a way to fix or solve for that, I think we will get PR out of the 90s. Arrogant gatekeeping that that Instit Instagram commenter is referencing.

[Brian Baskin]

Oh, I mean, as a journalist, I would say yeah, get out of the way. Let your clients, let them say whatever they want. That's definitely the advice I would give. Probably not for every client. I think there's certain clients you probably do want to gatekeep a little for their own well being. But yeah, most of them, I think, speaking seriously. I agree. I think the better interviews come when the PR isn't hovering and correcting every word. For sure.

[Haley Crawford]

Absolutely. And I think everyone's so used to speaking for themselves on social media today and brands need to be able to openly communicate, be themselves. And I think where they can really lean into the PR firm is where they don't have that expertise themselves. Right. It's like do what you can in house, but there are certain things that you just don't have the bandwidth, you don't have the resources or the knowledge or the network to do. And that's really especially as resources become more limited. Pick and choose where you lean into your PR firm. I think that's where they can really shine.

[Brian Baskin]

That's a great point.

[Sheena Butler Young]

So as we wrap things up, Hayley, we've talked about a lot and obviously I'm using overly broad strokes when I ask you this question, but is there one piece of advice, the most crucial piece of advice that you'd have for brands, regardless of size, to the extent to which you can do that, of how to choose a PR agency and how to make the most of that relationship to your benefit and also to the PR agency's benefit?

[Haley Crawford]

Absolutely. I think, you know, again, when you're meeting with a potential PR partner. Almost think of it as a job interview, right? Could you see them being part of your in house team? What does that rapport feel like? Are they clearly passionate about developing your brand story and taking it to the next level? And you know, if they tick those boxes, they won't feel like this external entity who you're just outsourcing to, right? They'll really feel like a part of the team, which is exactly what you need for them to be the best representative of your brand and share your story in a way that's truly reflective.

[Brian Baskin]

That's a great note to end on. Hayley, thank you so much for joining us.

[Haley Crawford]

Thank you both.

[Brian Baskin]

Be sure to check out Hayley's article How to choose a PR agency, available now at businessofashion.com youm've been listening to the Debrief, produced by Livia Davies, edited and mixed by Eric Brea. I'm Brian Baskin.

[Sheena Butler Young]

And I'm Sheena Butler Young. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us and be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

[Unknown]

At Verizon, anyone can trade in their old phone for a new one on us with unlimited ultimate, which means everyone in your family could get a new phone and stay on your family plan.

[Haley Crawford]

Keeping you close hey mom, you seen my toothbrush? Yeah, I'm almost done with it.

[Unknown]

Oh, maybe too close. Trade in and additional terms apply. See verizon.com for details.

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