Is This the Year Discount Mania Finally Ends?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Is This the Year Discount Mania Finally Ends?"

The Business of Fashion Podcast
Release Date: November 26, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this special holiday edition of The Business of Fashion’s Debrief, host Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young, alongside reporters Kat Chen and Malik Morris, unpack the complexities of the current retail environment as the industry heads into Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Against a backdrop of consumer uncertainty and economic anxiety, the panel debates whether the perennial ‘discount mania’ that has defined holiday shopping will finally taper off, how brands are adapting, and whether consumers’ relationship with sales is fundamentally shifting.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Paradox of Consumer Sentiment vs. Spending

[01:46-04:19]

• Consumer Anxiety: Despite persistently negative reports on consumer sentiment and concerns about economic instability, Americans are still spending robustly—especially during the critical holiday quarter.
• Disparities in Spending: Kat notes the spending is driven by wealthier consumers, who are “insulated by a very strong stock market and real estate that’s appreciated immensely,” while the majority feels squeezed by slow wage growth and rising prices.
  • “Every week there’s a new report out about how crappy people are feeling about the state of the economy... but the irony is that they’re still spending money.” — Kat Chen [01:57]

2. Retailers’ Evolving Black Friday Strategies

[04:19-07:19]

• Beyond Blanket Discounts: Malik explains that retailers can no longer rely on simple, sitewide deep discounts. Instead, they must articulate “why you need to stop scrolling and shop with us,” focusing on brand storytelling and curated experiences.
  • “Slapping, you know, a 50% off everything discount... is not going to cut it this year.” — Malik Morris [04:32]
• Product ‘Newness’ and Hero Items: Brands launching new products specifically for Black Friday, coupled with campaigns prioritizing bestsellers, are outcompeting those merely clearing stale stock.
  • “It’s about creating a sense of urgency to buy something right now... something that’s really fresh, that feels really fun.” — Malik Morris [06:02]

3. The Waning Era of “Discount Mania”

[07:19-10:11]

• Shifting Toward ‘Value’: Consumers want value—good deals on quality goods—not just the cheapest price for the sake of it. Kat highlights a move toward “surgical” pricing and away from endless, exhausting markdown cycles.
  • “I feel like days of ‘we’re going to do all these markdowns, and then, like, it’s going to be a week of 80% off’... that mentality is changing.” — Kat Chen [07:31]
• AI & Pricing: Retailers are increasingly using AI to optimize pricing, potentially diminishing the need for dramatic sales events.

4. Consumers Still Love a Deal—But Curation Matters

[10:11-12:24]

• The Age of Curation: Malik argues shoppers still seek discounts, but “don’t want to feel like they’re just getting slop.” Smart inventory management and curated product assortments are key.
  • “It’s a confluence of things to make consumers feel special during this time and to make things feel edited.” — Malik Morris [11:44]
• Exclusive Offers: Gift-with-purchase and early access for top customers are gaining popularity as ways to stand out amid the promotional noise.

5. Luxury Retail’s Unique Holiday Tactics

[13:29-17:36]

• Divergent from Discounting: Luxury retailers avoid traditional Black Friday deal frenzies. Instead, they’re focused on clienteling—lavish events, exclusive access, and personalized service targeting the wealthiest clients.
  • “Their competitors are ramping up tactics to acquire a bigger slice of their competitors’ pie. And so it’s ramping up clienteling... courting these VICs, very important customers.” — Kat Chen [15:11]
• Market Upheaval: Turmoil among major players (Saks Global, Essence, Luisaviaroma) creates openings for brands like Bloomingdale’s, Mytheresa, and Forward (Revolve Group) to poach top clients and stylists.

6. Retailer-Brand Relationships and Vendor Dynamics

[17:36-21:57]

• Brand Partnerships Matter: Good vendor relationships lead to preferential inventory and faster stocking of new products, benefitting both brands and consumers. Kat details poor retailer payment behaviors and the ripple effect on product availability.
  • “If a department store is nice to brands, they’re probably gonna get better products from them... first dibs on the great hero product of the holidays.” — Brian Baskin [19:56]

7. AI’s Growing Role in Shopping

[21:57-24:10]

• Shoppers & AI: Malik explains shoppers use ChatGPT to make gift lists and find deals, but AI-powered shopping apps haven’t become mainstream yet.
  • “Shoppers [are] actually using ChatGPT to create Christmas lists and... consult where to find good deals on leather bags or blush or overcoats.” — Malik Morris [22:22]
• Future Potential: With direct checkout features and partnerships (Shopify, Walmart, Target), AI may soon streamline discovery-to-purchase holiday shopping flows.

8. Predictions and The Future of Holiday Shopping

[24:10-26:55]

• Brian: Predicts that this year AI will dominate recommendations, and next year it’ll close sales: “If you trust it to recommend products... why wouldn’t you trust it to just complete the sale?” [24:10]
• Malik: Thinks this year could spark the end of ‘discount mania,’ with brands retraining consumers away from constant deals. [24:30]
• Sheena: Warns that cash-strapped shoppers are still out there, and many are “going to be some very disappointed kids at Christmas if there aren’t deals that are 80% on at least something.” [25:02]
• Kat: Offers a theory: hyper-visibility and constant negative headlines sap confidence, regardless of actual economic status. [25:50]

9. Hosts’ Personal Shopping Habits

[27:00-28:39]

• Varied Approaches: The panel reflects on their own Black Friday behavior―ranging from avoidance, to last-minute deal hunting, to “fashion FOMO.”
  • “By the time we get to Black Friday, I’m like, do I even have money left?” — Malik Morris [27:09]

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “Every week there’s a new report out about how crappy people are feeling about the state of the economy... but the irony is that they’re still spending money.”
   — Kat Chen [01:57]

• “Slapping, you know, a 50% off everything discount... is not going to cut it this year.”
   — Malik Morris [04:32]

• “I feel like days of ‘we’re going to do all these markdowns... it’s going to be a week of 80% off’... that mentality is changing.”
   — Kat Chen [07:31]

• “It’s a confluence of things to make consumers feel special during this time and to make things feel edited.”
   — Malik Morris [11:44]

• “If a department store is nice to brands, they’re probably gonna get better products from them... first dibs on the great hero product of the holidays.”
   — Brian Baskin [19:56]

• “Shoppers [are] actually using ChatGPT to create Christmas lists... consult where to find good deals on leather bags or blush or overcoats.”
   — Malik Morris [22:22]

• “This is the year that maybe discount mania finally comes to an end.”
   — Malik Morris [24:30]

• “I think there are going to be... very disappointed kids at Christmas if there aren’t deals that are 80% on at least something.”
   — Sheena Butler-Young [25:02]

• “I have a theory... the reason why consumer sentiment surveys are trending downward... is because of the hyper-visibility of our lives.”
   — Kat Chen [25:50]

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Consumer Sentiment & Spending: [01:46-04:19]
• Retail Strategies for Black Friday: [04:19-07:19]
• Discount Culture Shifting: [07:19-10:11]
• Curation and Exclusive Offers: [10:11-12:24]
• Luxury Retail Tactics: [13:29-17:36]
• Brand-Vendor Relationship Dynamics: [17:36-21:57]
• AI in Holiday Shopping: [21:57-24:10]
• Host and Guest Predictions: [24:10-26:55]
• Personal Shopping Reflections: [27:00-28:39]

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Tone & Language

Throughout, the panel balances industry-savvy analysis with a candid, conversational style, often blending sharp insights with personal anecdotes and a touch of humor (“the fashion disease called fomo” [28:06]).

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Conclusion

This episode captures a moment of change in retail: as shoppers grow savvier and the convenience of AI looms ever larger, brands are forced to rethink the “discount for all” strategy, focus more on storytelling, and deliver tailored value. Whether or not this is the year ‘discount mania’ ends, the message is clear—brands must adapt, or get left behind.

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For full coverage of Black Friday, evolving retail tactics, and holiday trends, visit businessoffashion.com and follow Kat Chen and Malik Morris’s reporting.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Hello and welcome to the Debrief from the Business of Fashion, where each week we delve into Our most popular BoF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm executive editor Brian Baskin.

[C]

And I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young.

[B]

And this is the Debrief's holiday Retail Spectacular. Today we're going to talk about what fashion and beauty brands are planning for Black Friday and whether it'll be enough to lift consumers spirits.

[C]

And we'll also talk about how this is the most wonderful time of the year for luxury department stores. Well, most of them. Joining us to help decode this season's shopping trends are BoF reporters Kat Chen and Malik Morris. Kat, Malik, welcome to the Debrief.

[D]

Hey guys, thanks for having us.

[E]

Thanks for having us. Glad to be back.

[B]

Glad to have you both back, our retail experts. First question's to you. Kat. Set the scene for us a bit. The American consumer is in a really weird place right now, right?

[D]

Yes, things are a bit funky right now. I'm sure everybody has seen the headlines about consumer sentiment. Every week there's a new report out about how crappy people are feeling about the state of the economy. Today there was a new report out from the conference board that consumer sentiment has slipped. I think another sick points from the month prior. And so people are not really feeling rosy about the state of the economy, but the irony is that they're still spending money. So the question is whether this holiday season is going to be successful for retailers because it's a very, very important quarter for the entire industry.

[B]

So explain that dynamic though, because one would think if consumer sentiment, how they're feeling is at worst level. I think it's worst level ever. Close to it. By some measures. You would think that would translate into lower spending, but we've been seeing the opposite.

[D]

Typically, spending and sentiment correlate with each other, but since COVID there's been some discrepancy, and we've been reading and studying on this. And, you know, there was this great Planet Money podcast that you circulated with the newsroom. And the. The theory is that even though sentiment is down right now, spending has been driven by the wealthier segment of the economy. So these are consumers that have been insulated by a very strong stock market and real estate that's appreciated immensely in the past five years. So they have been comfortable to spend insulated from inflation and the effects of tariffs. And so they're continuing to spend even though the bottom half, or rather the bottom 80% of the economy, are really feeling the effects of slower wage growth. And of course, in certain categories of clothing, prices have just skyrocketed since COVID.

[C]

So, Malik, how do retailers read something like this for Black Friday? Certainly, everyone can't cater to the 1% with their holiday deals. They've got to do something to get that bottom half of the consumer group spending again.

[E]

So Black Friday Cyber Monday is not a fix for a mediocre year. It's. This year is really kind of like any other time where you really have to fight to get consumers attention. And slapping, you know, a 50% off everything discount on a photo and putting that on Instagram is not going to cut it this year. You really have to say, well, this is why you need to stop scrolling and shop with us. So I think the, the approach that brands are taking to this murky, you know, economic environment where the bottom half of consumers are incredibly cautious about where they're spending. I mean, they are still spending, but, like, they're very, very discerning is to say, here's why our brand matters. It's kind of similar to what I often say is, like, it really just comes down to, like, good brand building. And obviously there's gonna be winners and losers. But the one that can make people shop even during Black Friday when there are discounts are those that can make people understand why they should be buying their products to begin with.

[B]

What are some brands that are doing a good job of that right now? We're recording this on Tuesday, November 25, and Abercrombie and Fitch just reported their results, and they were really, really good. And they even raised their guidance for the rest year and that's the kind of brand I would think would get clobbered in an environment like this where people would just say, I'm not going to spend $50 on jeans at Abercrombie, I'm going to go to TJ Maxx and spend $25. And instead the opposite's happening. Are there other brands that are, you know, sort of defying the odds and doing really well in this tough environment?

[E]

Something that I've seen and been talking to brands about is this idea of like still introducing newness during this time. Like the brands that I've spoken to and I said they, because these, these deals are happening earlier and earlier. So some brands are starting their, their Black Friday deals in the beginning of like November. Some are even doing it like right after Halloween, around Halloween. And so they, they have some early data to go off of. And I've seen a few that have introduced new products specifically for this time tied to like really, you know, cool brand marketing campaigns as well. And that seems to be working because again, it's about creating a sense of urgency to buy something right now. And if you're like, oh, here's this new product that we've introduced rather than like this thing that's been sitting on the shelf that's been collecting dust, now's the time to buy it. It's like, no, here's something that's really fresh, that feels really fun. And also I've seen a lot of brands that say that they're doing well right now with Black Friday, you know, ahead of the actual weekend, is that they're prioritizing hero best selling product. Like here's a good time to get the thing that you've been coveting for a very long, for a while right now when there's a deal, rather than like here's us just trying to offload a bunch of inventory that we over purchased, you know, earlier in the year.

[C]

Where does the price cutting fit into the equation right now? Because retailers claim to not be doing that. They're going to offload things full price and offer something special. But it doesn't look like that in my inbox or my, or my text messages.

[D]

So what consumers want is value. They want to see the best price for the best value. And they don't necessarily want to see a cheap product either. They don't necessarily want to pay a low price for a good product. They want to get a good deal, but they don't want to buy a cheap product, if that makes sense. And so I feel like the days of, like, we're going to do all these markdowns, and then, like, it's going to be like a week of 80% off. I feel like maybe that mentality is changing. I feel like going into 2026, there's going to be more sophistication around price architecture of truly surgically pricing each product so that at retail, before markdowns, retailers are going to get the best margin for each product that matches consumer expectations while at the same time protecting their profit margin. And so I think that there's even on the consumer side, the sale mentality is maybe waning a little bit because, like, personally, I don't want to wait, like, for the sale and I don't want to every Black Friday have to, like, look for the deals and do that. Like, I want to buy the product when I need the product, and I think that it's exhausting for the. For the retailers as well. And. And also the technology is out, out there. Like, this is what AI is able to achieve.

[B]

Just. I was just gonna bring that up. Go on.

[D]

Right. Like this, this is what AI is meant to do, is price products, like, perfectly. And so sales and like this huge bonanza of Black Friday, which, by the way, even. Even before, I think this was in the conversation. And so, like, I don't think this conversation about value is necessarily about promotions anymore. Which, by the way, you know, Brian, you talk about Abercrombie, but Abercrombie is doing really well. But so is TJ Maxx, a company that doesn't do sales around Black Friday, you know, and Quints, you know, a company that Malik has done amazing reporting on and, oh, so doesn't do sales on Black Friday. So it's, you know, it's all very counterintuitive.

[C]

I'm curious to hear your thoughts, Malik, on this thing. We say, and retailers say that, you know, they've been saying it for a while that the consumer is looking for value and that. That that definition is evolving. Then I go to mall on Friday and I see people wrapped around the block and looking for the biggest sale sign they can find. What's your take on reconciling those two things?

[E]

Well, I mean, I think we're in the age of curation. And so even when people are expecting deals, they don't want to feel like they're just getting slop. And Ibi, to Kat's earlier point, like, we also are coming off of all the tariff, you know, mania. And that means margins of pressure. So, like, brands actually can't play a Race to the bottom game with discounts this year. And I'm pretty sure there are those that are going to be doing rock bottom pricing or like in incredibly steep discounts, but a lot of them aren't. What's happened with tariffs is they've had to reconfigure their supply chains so they've been able to inventory manage and plan better going into Q3 and Q4. Going back to my earlier point of like being able to introduce new products because they've been so surgical and how they're, you know, laying out the foundation for their selling this year so they're not really just looking to get underperforming skus out the door. And yeah, so again, I feel like that coupled with the fact that consumers want things to feel curated even if they are looking for a deal means that it's not going to just be like a free for all. Let me just throw products at you. It's 90% off. You know, they even doing things like introducing gift with purchase. I'm not sure how prevalent gift with purchases were before this year, but that seems to feel relatively new. And also early in the offering early access for Black Friday Cyber Monday deals to their top customers. It's trying to make it feel exclusive at a time when everyone is offering discounts because you can go anywhere in the world through E commerce or anywhere, you know, physically in your town to like find a deal during this time. So it's all about like what is going to get me to come to you. So yeah, I think it's a confluence of things to make consumers feel special during this time and to make things feel to feel edited, whether it's the discounting cadence itself or the product that's being offered on sale.

[B]

We'll be back with more of the debrief right after this. Monday Sidekick, the AI agent that knows you and your business thinks ahead and takes action. Ask it anything seriously. Monday Sidekick AI you'll love to use Start a free trial today on Monday.com.

[F]

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[B]

We've been mostly talking about mid priced, you know, mall brands, for lack of a better word. Luxury is in a completely different headspace when it comes to discounting. Most of them don't do it and they certainly aren't participating in doorbuster Black Friday deals. Kat, you just wrote though about what luxury department stores and other multi brand retailers are doing for the holidays. Why don't you tell us a little bit about how they're approaching these questions that we've been raising.

[D]

Well, sure. So the luxury department store space going into the holidays this year is, it's an interesting time for them. Not necessarily because of the economy, but because of the circumstances in this space right now, because of the particular players in this space, namely Saks Global, Essence and Luis of Villaroma and the challenges that these players have faced this past year. Saks with various restructuring after its acquisition of Neiman Marcus and Bergdorff and vendor challenges that, you know, goes back to 2023. Essence Bankruptcy Luis of Villaroma filing for court protection in Italy. They have opened up white space for their competitors on healthier financial footing to come in and basically eat their lunch and acquire their customers, acquire their sales. And that will be very I think intense in this holiday season. And so their competitors are ramping up tactics to acquire a bigger slice of their competitors pie. And so it's ramping up clientele ing. I think that's the biggest tactic. I mean they are all of these luxury retailers already were prioritizing clientele ing so courting these vic's very important customers, very, very wealthy top shoppers, the luxury brands were already doing this, right? So as aspirational shoppers were pulling back. They were courting the rich people who were still spending money on expensive things. But now it's a matter of okay, well Saks, Neiman Marcus facing some turmoil, stealing their top shoppers, stealing their stylists, their sales associates and then with them comes their Rolodex of top clients, right? And then throwing these lavish events in order to court those customers and then also talent hiring executives, not poaching because there were maybe poaching, but there were shakeups at the top level and then hiring those talent.

[B]

So if we think of consumers, you know what a lot of economists are calling the K shaped recovery to the pandemic where the wealthy are just zooming higher, spending more and more and Everyone else spending less and less or their spending power just isn't keeping up. It sounds like the department stores are really going after that top leg. And we're talking like the real top of the top here. I've certainly never been contacted by one of these clientelling sales associates, despite my lavish spending at these stores. Is that right?

[D]

Yes. It's not us.

[B]

It's not.

[D]

So, I mean, like, this is like the top 20% of consumers buoying the economy. We're talking about like the top 0.1%, maybe even. Even less than that. Right. And by the way, I haven't had a chance actually to mention the beneficiaries of their competitors struggling. But. So some of them are Bloomingdale's Mytheresa Forward, which is owned by Revolve Group. And I didn't get the chance to talk to Shopbop or Nordstro, but they were mentioned by my sources as well.

[B]

Well, okay, but I mean, Nordstrom, I mean, they. I'm sure they have clientelling, but they have tons and tons of regular folk customers. I mean, what are these stores? They can't exclusively rely on the same 20 billionaires to support them all. I mean, they must be doing something for the masses, right? Or at least the upper middle class of the masses. I saw Malik nodding his head. Did you have some thoughts there?

[E]

No, I mean, I was just gonna say that, you know, Nordstrom's specifically is. They're very curated specifically when it comes to footwear. So, like, just selection is so good. And also they're really good partners to like their brands, you know, so, like, they get really good inventory. Another good thing that they do and speaks more to this is like online they're like introduced, like drop shipping. So, like, brands can, like, play with, you know, what can sell and see if it does well and then kind of delist it if it doesn't do it. It's just like a lot of flexibility. And I think that that just offers the end consumer a better experience if brands feel comfortable with them as a partner and feel good and like, there's room to experiment as well. But I'm sure Kat has more thoughts, better thoughts on that.

[D]

No, that's. You bring up such a good point. I think every retailer is doing more dropshipping right now. But on the point of brands, on vendor relationships, so that has been a very critical weakness of Saks. And when I was doing reporting on the story about how other retailers are stepping in, you would think that vendor relationships would be an easy area where competitors Are like, okay, easy, I'm going to come in and be better partners. And many are. You know, I often hear that Bloomingdale is a great partner, but way smaller in footprint to be able to replace the volume of a giant like Saks. Right? But at the same time, it's like there hasn't really been a big change, really, in the standard of how retailers treat brands. If anything, the refrain that I've heard is that overall, the way that Saks has just been irresponsible with payments, has given license for other retailers to pay their partners late, and that that hasn't changed.

[B]

And the reason that this matters, I mean, obviously it matters to the brands and their finances, but the reason this matters for retail generally is if a department store is nice to brands, they're probably gonna get better products from them. First dibs on the great, you know, hero product of the holidays. And then if I'm a customer, I walk in, and even if I don't have my Nordstrom approved personal shopper, I'm still gonna go, hey, wait a minute. This is like, pretty good stuff. I'm gonna shop here. That's. That's the goal, right?

[D]

Yes, exactly. And not just the hero product, maybe more importantly the new products. Because when a brand gets paid faster by their retail partners, they can pay their vendors, their factories faster, right? So then they get the stuff faster and then they deliver the stuff to their retailers faster. And then us, the customers, we can, you know, we will see the new stuff and we're like, oh, new cashmere sweaters and then new dresses, and then we will be inclined to go to those stores more often, right? And so, like, the entire ecosystem is more robust if only the retail partners were just nicer to their brand partners. And so right now, that relationship between retailers and brands, like, that relationship isn't great. And it's not just Saks, right? Like, Saks has been the poster child of bad partner. But what I've heard is that it's not just sex. A lot of partners are not great. Some partners are amazing. But there's a lot of things, very little things that all retail, many retailers can step up and doing, whether that's just being better at promoting their brands, whether that's sending emails to their customers. When a new brand partner is being onboarded, there's a funny anecdote that's the kicker of my story, which is that founder of a brand, the CEO, she was like, it would be nice if my brand partners would just post about us on their Instagram pages.

[C]

There's another wild card also that was going to affect the brands and the retailers this Black Friday and Cyber Monday. And that is AI. I know we talked about earlier using it for sharper pricing, but there's also going to be a chance that customers use it for their shopping experience. Malik, you were on the debrief recently talking about these shopping apps. Have they gotten any better? Will you see shoppers on Black Friday, Cyber Monday opening an AI app first to find the deals or to find brands?

[E]

That's a good question. I don't know if like the AI power shopping apps are in the place yet, but this is a concern for them. But I do think that where we're seeing AI disruption here is that like shoppers actually using like ChatGPT to create Christmas lists and they're consulting like where to find good deals on leather bags or blush or overcoats or what have you. And actually recently I think so it's last time ChatGPT launch direct checkout to capitalize on that behavior. So, you know, they're partnering with Shopify which powers like storefronts for literally every brand under the sun. And then also they're partnering with Walmart and with Target. But what's happening is I think it's still too new for some brands to put like a dedicated strategy behind making sure they pop up in ChatGPT search results. But also LLMs are surfacing results based on like existing chatter. So if a brand is already in the zeitgeist and it's like they're receiving good results reviews and are part of discussions on Reddit and other forums, you know, they'll show up in a consumer's results when that person is looking for, you know, a great cozy sweater for their stepfather. I mean, that's me. I'm throwing my Christmas list in there.

[C]

Not the ex's wedding revenge dress.

[B]

No, not this time.

[E]

Now we'll focus on getting a.

[B]

So you found your revenge dress and now you're looking for a sweater.

[E]

Now looking for my sweater for my stepfather. But no, but part of making sure you're discoverable and people will buy your product, especially at this critical time is, you know, whether it's through retail partners directly with you is doing, haven't already done the qualitative brand billing stuff, brand building stuff that predates, you know, the rise of LLMs. But in terms of like, you know, dedicated AI powered shopping platforms, I mean they're still trying to change consumer behavior. I don't think they're there yet to like say, hey, we're going to get you 30% off, 40% off all these luxury brand, these mid priced brands just yet. But I'll keep an eye on all that.

[B]

Yeah, my prediction, and actually I think that'll be a good way to close the episode is if we all offer a few predictions. But mine is that this is the year everyone uses AI to recommend products, but next year will be the year everyone uses it to buy them. Because if you trust it to shop to recommend products and find the best deals for you, why wouldn't you trust it to just complete the sale at that point?

[E]

That's a great prediction. I will say that I think that this is the year that maybe discount mania finally comes to an end. I think the way that brands are tempering the discounting cadence and maybe retraining customers in that vein will have hopefully long tail effects for future holiday season. Like have you even seen some brands like we haven't discounted at all and we saved them for BF's book Black Friday so that we can create the sense of urgency in the sense of it feeling special that is happening right now. So I think that could be a long tail effect of this year.

[C]

I don't have, I don't know this is a prediction, but I just think that we can't discount, pardon the pun, the discount seeking shopper that's out there. I think that inflation, the geopolitical climate, the economic climate is really weighing on people and I think there are going to be a large, large cohorts of discount seeking shoppers in the next couple of weeks and I think they're going to be some very disappointed kids at Christmas if there aren't deals that are 80% on at least something. So that's not a prediction. But I do think that some of this strategy does not account for people that are really cash strapped. I think we, I think there needs to be a mechanism for that.

[B]

As someone once said, kids don't need 30 dolls, they only need two dolls.

[C]

Who is that great philosopher?

[B]

Oh, I don't know.

[D]

You know what, I'm going to go in that's in a similar direction. Sheena, I'm going to offer a theory too, and not a prediction going back to what we were talking about on consumer sentiment. But I have a theory that the reason why consumer sentiment surveys are trending downward and has been since COVID is because of the hypervisibility of our lives. And everybody just spending all this time on social media and just being exposed to headlines all the time without necessarily understanding anything about the world. I think that has a lot to do with, like, why people feel so crappy about the economy. There's just so much news about the economy. Tariffs, interest rates. And I think because of that, people feel bad about the economy without necessarily understanding it or knowing what to expect.

[B]

I knew this was all our fault somehow. Thank you, Kat.

[D]

Well, you know what I want to know is if you guys are shopping this Black Friday and what you're buying.

[E]

I've never been a Black Friday shopper.

[B]

Ooh.

[E]

Flex. Okay, okay, that's not true.

[F]

Flex.

[E]

Okay, that's not true. I haven't shopped Black Friday in a very long time. Long time. Because I just. I shop too much to begin with. I'm a shopaholic. So, like, by the time we get to Black Friday, I'm like, do I even have money left? But I will. I. I. Honestly, as I'm becoming an actual adult, this is the time I want to be looking at, like, Christmas presents to get people. I think this is a good opportunity for that, and I haven't done that before, but, yeah, I'm not usually attuned to the Black Friday of it all.

[B]

I tend not to because I don't like feeling that pressure. Like, if I don't find something right now, I'm missing some huge deal. Especially because, as we've been discussing for the last half hour, that's really not true anymore. The one time I do it is if it's a really big ticket item that I know I need, like, furniture or something. That is the time when you're like, okay, these deals don't come around all the time, and I would make significant savings. So let's take the plunge.

[E]

Flats, green tv, Anybody?

[C]

And I am following the lead of retailers and saying that I will never do something, and then I do it. So every Black Friday, I say, I'm not going out. I just don't want to be a part of the ruckus. And then I. I end up probably half the time going out and just kind of seeing what's happening. I get very curious. And I also have that. That fashion disease called fomo. I feel like I'm missing something if I'm not seeing it, but I'm not a big shopper, but I do like to be a part of it.

[D]

I'm like the consumer. This year, I want to. I need an iPhone. I want to get a deal on an iPhone this year, so.

[C]

Well, sending you positive vibes. Thank you. Hopefully, we all have a great Black Friday and Cyber Monday. I think that's a positive. We started this office saying this is going to be our holiday spectacular. We ended on a shopping positive note. Kat, Malik, thank you so much for joining us.

[E]

Thank you for having us.

[D]

Thank you for having us. This was so fun.

[C]

Please be sure to check out Malik and Kat's coverage of the holiday shopping season at businessoffashion.com these and other other stories are available to BOF Professional subscribers only, and you can find the links in the episode notes. You've been listening to the debrief, produced and edited by Olivia Davies and Eric Brea. I'm Sheena Butler Young.

[B]

And I'm Brian Baskin. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us and be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

[F]

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