The Evolving Art of Brand Collaborations

Summary

The Business of Fashion Podcast: The Evolving Art of Brand Collaborations

Episode Release Date: January 21, 2025

Introduction

In this episode of The Business of Fashion Podcast, host Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young explore the dynamic landscape of brand collaborations within the fashion industry. As collaborations have become more frequent and ubiquitous, the conversation delves into why certain partnerships thrive while others fade into obscurity. The discussion features insights from two prominent writers, Lei Takanashi and Julia Labosse, who provide contrasting perspectives on successful and unsuccessful collaborations.

The Saturation of Brand Collaborations

Brian Baskin opens the discussion by highlighting the explosion of brand collaborations, noting that partnerships once considered major events are now commonplace. He cites an unusual collaboration between a luxury slipper brand and Eggo Waffles as an example of the unpredictable nature of modern collaborations. This proliferation raises the question: Why do some collaborations succeed while others fail?

Why Are Sneaker Collaborations Becoming Boring?

Julia Labosse addresses the stagnation in sneaker collaborations, particularly criticizing industry giants like Nike for over-relying on retro strategies. At [01:22], Julia states:

“A lot of sneaker giants, and particularly Nike, have just become so reliant on retros and that retro strategy... It's very easy to just make a ton of different colorways. But now it seems that consumers are just... they want some visible newness.”

She argues that the lack of innovation leads to consumer fatigue, as seen with brands like Vans and Converse struggling to keep their offerings fresh. Julia contrasts this with successful collaborations that break the mold, such as Asics and Cecily Behanson's gel Quantum360, which introduced a Mary Jane sneaker hybrid, tapping into new demographics and showcasing creative versatility.

The Authenticity Challenge in Collaborations

Sheena Butler Young probes deeper into the risk brands face when pushing the boundaries of innovation in collaborations. Julia responds by emphasizing the importance of resonating authentically with both the collaborator's audience and a broader consumer base. At [04:31], she remarks:

“Consumers are much, much smarter than they think... It's easy for us to see when a collaboration doesn't make sense.”

This sentiment underscores the delicate balance brands must maintain between creativity and market appeal to avoid collaborations that appear forced or inauthentic.

Art Collaborations as a Revival Strategy

Transitioning to Lei Takanashi's expertise, Sheena introduces the topic of art collaborations, highlighting their continued success despite a saturated market. Lei explains at [06:09]:

“Luxury brands continue to lean in on art collaborations... there's just a guaranteed customer there who has massive amounts of disposable income.”

She cites examples like Kaws with Dior and Louis Vuitton's partnership with Takashi Murakami, illustrating how established artists bring enduring appeal and authenticity to brand collaborations. Lei also discusses how art collaborations offer a collectible aspect that attracts a diverse range of consumers, from hardcore collectors to casual fans.

Experience Over Product in Modern Collaborations

Brian Baskin and Lei further explore the shift towards experiential elements in collaborations. Lei shares anecdotes about events like Art Basel and Complex Con, where brands create immersive experiences around their releases. At [17:18], Lei observes:

“Consumers are really looking for having just more than the collaboration, like, how does this live and how does it last?”

This focus on providing memorable experiences rather than just products signifies a transformative approach in how collaborations are executed and perceived.

Success Metrics Beyond Hype

The conversation shifts to how brands measure the success of collaborations. Lei admits the traditional metrics like resale value are becoming less relevant, as [11:04] she states:

“It's really getting hard to define success within the collaboration space... I think how you could define success with those types of collaborations... gives the consumer just like experience.”

Instead, success is now gauged by the ability to stand out in a crowded market and create meaningful consumer experiences. Julia adds that genuine collaborations, where brands offer creative freedom to partners, tend to resonate more authentically with audiences, thereby enhancing brand credibility.

The Future of Brand Collaborations

Looking ahead, Lei anticipates a rise in collaborations with emerging and unconventional artists, moving away from predictable partnerships. At [17:18], she notes:

“I think there's just a guaranteed customer there who has massive amounts of disposable income... fashion brands just gravitate towards these artists who are kind of rejecting the traditional rules of the art world.”

Julia echoes this by highlighting the trend of smaller collaborators pushing boundaries and creating unique offerings that differentiate themselves from mainstream collaborations.

The Role of AI in Brand Collaborations

The episode briefly touches upon the potential impact of artificial intelligence on future collaborations. While Brian humorously mentions having ChatGPT suggest a Prada-Tesla collaboration at [20:53], Julia expresses skepticism about AI-driven collaborations, questioning their feasibility and consumer reception. Lei adds that the demand for physical, experiential collaborations might overshadow purely digital innovations, emphasizing the continued importance of in-person interactions in the fashion collaboration landscape.

Conclusion

Brian Baskin wraps up the episode by reinforcing the importance of authenticity, creativity, and experiential elements in successful brand collaborations. Both Lei and Julia advocate for more genuine and innovative partnerships that go beyond superficial tie-ins, ensuring that collaborations remain exciting and relevant in an ever-evolving fashion industry.

Notable Quotes:

• Brian Baskin [00:21]: “Why do a few of these tie ups seem to really work? And so many vanish without a trace?”

• Julia Labosse [01:22]: “Consumers are just looking for something that has a bit of newness. Without that, it's just simply a copy of something we've seen a million times before.”

• Lei Takanashi [06:09]: “There's just a guaranteed customer there who has massive amounts of disposable income and would just always be at these art fairs just ready to spend.”

• Lei Takanashi [17:18]: “Fashion brands just gravitate towards these artists who are kind of rejecting the traditional rules of the art world.”

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of the current state and future directions of brand collaborations in the fashion industry. By juxtaposing the perspectives of Lei Takanashi and Julia Labosse, the discussion highlights the critical elements that differentiate successful collaborations from those that fail to resonate. Authenticity, creativity, and meaningful consumer experiences emerge as the pillars supporting impactful brand partnerships, suggesting a promising yet challenging path forward for brands aiming to innovate in a crowded marketplace.

Transcript

[Brian Baskin]

Hello and welcome to the Debrief from the Business of Fashion, where each week we delve into Our most popular BoF professional stories with the correspondents who created them. I'm executive editor Brian Baskin.

[Sheena Butler Young]

And I'm senior correspondent Sheena Butler Young.

[Brian Baskin]

And today we are talking collaborations. It used to be a major event when two brands teamed up to release a collection. Now, it's barely an exaggeration to say we're getting something on the scale of H and M and Karl Lagerfeld or Fendi and Versace once a week or even more often. And there are seemingly no longer any limits on who would release a collaboration and who they'd collaborate with. I got a press release for a collaboration between a luxury slipper brand and Eggo Waffles the other day. But why do a few of these tie ups seem to really work? And so many vanish without a trace? Today we have two guests. One who wrote a story about collaborations gone wrong and one who wrote about some really special ones. Lei Takanashi and Julia labosse. Welcome to the Debrief podcast.

[Lei Takanashi]

Thank you so much for having me, Brian.

[Julia Labosse]

Thanks so much for having me, guys.

[Brian Baskin]

Thanks for being here. Julia, I want to start with you because you recently published an article with the very memorable headline, why are sneaker collaborations so boring? And I thought that was a great question. Why are they so boring?

[Julia Labosse]

I think, yeah, a lot of them in the last year have been just very stale. I think that's not to say that all of them are boring, but I think in the last year it's just because a lot of sneaker giants, and particularly Nike, have just become so reliant on retros and that retro strategy. And mostly just because it's worked for them in the past, it's been something that they can always go back to, like the Nike Air Force One, the Jordan One and the Dunk. It's just an easy thing for them to go to, especially, especially in terms of how it's easy to produce. They've already got the moulds, so it's very easy to just make a ton of different colourways. But now it seems that consumers are just. They want some visible newness. We still love retros, as we've seen with Adidas Samba, but we're looking for just something that has a bit of newness to it. And, yeah, without that, it's just simply a copy of something we've seen a million times before. And that's why we've seen brands like Vans and Converse really struggle in the last few years because they've just failed to innovate.

[Brian Baskin]

And I guess that's the whole point of collaborations in the first place, is it offers something new and unexpected that a brand would never do on their own.

[Julia Labosse]

Yeah, exactly. I think a good example of something that has been done well is Asics and Cecily Behanson. Their collaboration last year on the gel Quantum360, that was basically like a Mary Jane sneaker hybrid, which we're actually seeing a lot more of recently. That was just like a completely new thing for Asics, especially a brand that's been very focused on just making retro runners for so many years. And to see them kind of go into this space of fashion and collaborating with a designer like Cecily has been really transformative for them in terms of showing the consumers that they can do something far more creative and really tap into a more female audience as well. So it's something that's just really, like, unique and just different perspective. And I think that's what's kind of pushed them to the forefront.

[Brian Baskin]

And I guess the other direction you can go with that is something like that Eggo waffles collaboration I mentioned, which is definitely unique and unexpected. I mean, I'll let you guys decide whether in a good or bad way. But, I mean, there's a certain logic to doing something like that, too, right?

[Julia Labosse]

Yeah, I think so. I think sometimes it works. I think some very crazy things do work, but I think when it's done lazily, I think the consumer can tell. Like, I think we're becoming much more smarter at really looking into brands and what they're doing and what makes sense. I think sometimes when it doesn't make sense, we're just very. We can see that. And I think that's a great example of that would be, like, I think Nike, when they collaborated with Tiffany, and they made the most, like, the most boring shoe, in my opinion, where it was literally just black and then a bit of a Tiffany swoosh. And I think actually the accessories I think they did for that was more exciting than the shoe itself. So I think it's easy for us to see. And I think that's why brands really have to step up in terms of what they're doing, because consumers are much, much smarter than they think.

[Sheena Butler Young]

When Brian asked about why they've gotten stale in the beginning, you referenced what you refer to in the article as, like, a cheat code. Like, if you just switch the, you know, make a little tweak to the logo or change the color, it's a safe way to appear like you're collaborating or you're doing something unique without really that. I wonder what brands think the risk is of actually being innovative when it comes to the collaboration. What do they think they have to lose if they go too far in the other direction?

[Julia Labosse]

I think because sometimes if they do go in this niche direction, it can be a risk because it might just not resonate with many people. And I think they're always trying to see if they can both resonate to that collaborator's audience and then a wider audience. So sometimes it's just a case of trying to appeal to as many people as they can. I think that's where they go wrong, because I think the nicher they go is what people are really interested in. But sometimes some brands try and go niche but then appear wide as well. And I think that's where, yeah, they struggle a lot more.

[Brian Baskin]

That's so true. Because, I mean, the risks of creating a small collaboration that maybe doesn't find its audience, I mean, for a company as big as Nike or Adidas, I mean, big deal, like, no one buys some shoe that had a limited production run. But at the same time, if they're just releasing boring collaboration after boring collaboration ended with the masses, you end up with something like Nike and Tiffany, which really, that's probably not the discourse they wanted about their brand out in the marketplace when that came out.

[Sheena Butler Young]

That's a nice segue into Lei's article, which might have an answer to the question of why collaborations are so boring. It's maybe thinking outside of the box to other categories like art. So Lei's piece was called why Fashion Needs the Art World More Than Ever. Lei, talk to us a little bit about why.

[Lei Takanashi]

Thank you, Sheena. Yeah. At a moment when just collaborations within the sneaker space are just starting to feel stale, I think what's really interesting to see is how art collaborations or collaborations with artists or pop artists are really still attracting a large buyer and just a large audience. I started in particular focus on all these activations that were going on at Miami Art Basel and Miami Art Week in December. And this was coming at a moment when there's a luxury downturn. There's a lot of uncertainty with the art market, with Manhattan gallery shuttering and auction house sales unfalling. Yet crypto entrepreneurs like Justin sun are still dropping $6 million on a duct tape banana on a wall. Like that happened in November last year. And I bring up this guy, Justin sun, because he previously made headlines in 2021 for spending millions on a Kaws painting. Last year. We still see Kaws releasing capsule collections with Dior. We see Louis Vuitton revisiting its groundbreaking partnership with Takashi Murakami. And I think you could inter these collaborations as boring repeats of collections that these luxury houses put out years ago. But at the same time, I also just see it as something that's stable and just continuously works. You know, Kaz, last year he released collaborations with Uniqlo and the luxury watchmaker Audemars Piguet. And I think just shows that he has this everlasting appeal on reach as a commercial artist. And at the same time, Murakami, he also debuted his own footwear brand last year that sells like flip flops are $70 to $120. And when I see something like that, you know, I think, yes, you could interpret it as something that like cheapens his artwork maybe. But at the same time I kind of see it as this artist has so much mass appeal that he could create like a Crocs adjacent footwear brand and people are actually buying it. So I don't think it's surprising to see just like luxury brands continue to lean in on art collaborations, even though they may feel repetitive at times. But I just feel like there's just a guaranteed customer there who has massive amounts of disposable income and would just always be at these art fairs just ready to spend.

[Brian Baskin]

And is that the customer here? It's people who are fans of the artists as opposed to, I mean, even someone like Kaz or Murakami, like, I think the general consumer for a lot of these bands probably has never heard of them. I mean, are they still going to buy those collaborations or is that even beside the point?

[Lei Takanashi]

I think it's a little bit of both, to be honest, because I think, yes, like when Kaz collaborates with like Audemars Piguet or when Takshi Murakami collaborates with Louis Vuitton, you're definitely, you're obviously aiming towards that super rich consumer, maybe a crypto bro, if you will. But I do feel like there's almost a trickle down effect because it's like these artists that created brand identities of their own, owning a Kaws piece or owning a Murakami piece of any sort of category, whether that's flip flops, a Uniqlo shirt, it still feels aspirational to own something like that. I mean, I remember when the first Uniqlo Klaus collection came out. I was freshman in college and I remember being so excited to be able to buy this product just because for years, Cos was like this artist who was only. You could only access his clothing for really just expensive streetwear product. It was either for all these supreme releases or collaborations with Bathing Ape that would cost at least $200 to $400. But when I saw Uniqlo was doing this, I was one of those people who lined up the first day and purchased a shirt for $20. So I do think there is that wide appeal. And I think in some sense, these artists are a luxury brand of their own.

[Sheena Butler Young]

You know, I think you answered this question, but I just wanted to hone in on the bit of a certain customer of like a sneaker brand or a streetwear brand feeling like they have access to, for the first time, high art. Is that a part of the draw for a brand is to give a younger customer access to high art? And is that. And does it work?

[Lei Takanashi]

I think so. You know, I think a lot of these collaborations, they're not too different from, like, this whole concept of, like, artist editions that you saw what Andy Warhol did, like Brillo boxes. You know, maybe in some cases they're more available than others. Cause Uniqlo product is probably extremely mass produced, and it's not like rare or limited in any sense, but it still gives you an opportunity to purchase this art and just collect it. And I think that is a huge draw to our collaborations. There's this really collectible aspect to it, and it's something that I personally have always been passionate about as a consumer. For me, I'm obsessed with graffiti art specifically. So every time supreme has released a collaboration with graffiti artists, I've actually been pretty moved to purchase it instantly. And it's really, I think, just collectability to it that I think is fueling that. And I think that really does reach all types of consumers in general.

[Sheena Butler Young]

I remember covering a lot of the sneaker collabs a few years ago, and there was a recognition that brands didn't do these things for a big revenue driver, but more for the halo effect. Can we talk a little bit, both of you, about how brands measure success or how both sides of the equation measure success, whether it's the artist or the brand. What does success look like beyond heat? Or maybe it is just heat?

[Lei Takanashi]

Personally, I think, you know, it's really getting hard to define success within the collaboration space, because for the longest time, I sincerely defined it by, like, the resale value, like, hours after release or, you know, these days, the resale market for streetwear and sneaker collaborations is Pretty much dead, I'd say. Like, I'm not certain, but like, I feel like that whole ecosystem is now more defined by like the volume in terms of resale rather than like, you know, a Shiba Knight coming out for $200 and you can sell it for like 1,002 hours.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Right, so resell for who? Resell for the brand or for the consumer? They're snapping it up because of resale value and then the brand measures that as being a good thing for the brand too. Because it represents heat.

[Lei Takanashi]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think like nowadays, I think like how you could define success with those types of collaborations, I think it's just really just something that breaks through the noise and like, I think gives some, gives the consumer just like experience. That's more than just kind of acquiring the product in general. One thing I think about is just the re release of Stache's collaboration with Nike recently. This is a collaboration from the 2000s that's seen as a sneaker grill by a lot of hardcore sneaker collectors. And when they re released the shoe, it could have just been a regular drop or it could have just been a regular release. That's for an online raffle, if you will. But what they did was at Art Basel they created this whole exhibition that showed Stache's history of Nike, gave consumers an experience of something more than just buying the shoe itself. And I think that's kind of something that is important when doing these things now.

[Brian Baskin]

I think that experience element is such a key part of this. I mean, you see with the bigger, best thought out collaborations that they're turning over the whole design of their stores often to this. They'll change the window, the color scheme of the entire store sometimes to match a high profile release. But to me, I mean the way I always tell whether these things are a success or not are whether they do it again. So there's certain collaborations that have existed for years. I mean, Uniqlo is famous for doing this. You know, Uniqlo U and the J.W. anderson twice a year collections that they do. Clearly those are selling and they're selling enough to justify putting the effort in again and again. And you can also tell that these really do move the needle financially and are more than heat because a lot of these companies will talk about collaborations on their earnings calls. So they're telling investors this was a big enough deal for us that it moved the needle financially. And that might have been partially marketing and just getting their name out there and the halo effect. But I think Some of these collaborations, the sales from them alone is enough to actually justify doing it. Why don't we shift gears a bit and talk about what a good collaboration looks like? So, Lei, I'd love to hear more about these graffiti collaborations that you just instantly will buy. No matter what supreme releases, obviously, they know what they're doing on that front.

[Lei Takanashi]

Yeah, I mean, personally, I'm a huge fan of graffiti, so, yeah, I do find myself buying a lot of this merchandise created by, like, you know, these super niche underground artists who frankly reject commercialism for the most part. And I don't know, I think what makes them so good is just that it feels very authentic and real. You know, it doesn't feel like something that just, you know, it feels like, oh, we gave you a paycheck. Especially in Supreme's case. Like, it doesn't feel like they just gave him a paycheck, and it's like, okay, here, just, like, do something for me. I feel like they really let these artists express themselves as individuals and, like, just while also, like, giving them this spotlight that you just don't usually see them get. I think especially within just, like, graffiti culture, it's a thing that hasn't been commodified in the same sense as other subcultures, like skateboarding or hip hop. You know, it's not, like, a huge thing, especially when it comes to, like, true street graffiti and those types of things. So I think just like, seeing that authenticity be represented from a brand, just letting their collaborators just take the wheel and just do what they want to do, I think is really key in that sense.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Julia, you had a really great example of successful collaborations in your story, which was Bima Williams, a former Nike and Adidas marketer who did a collaboration with Saucony. And Saucony basically gave Bima carte blanche on the collaboration. He could do whatever he want mixed with the colors, the textures, and they found great success in that. Tell us why.

[Julia Labosse]

Well, I think it's because they really just gave him a lot of creative freedom. He was able to put his own colors on the shoe and, like, his label, like, Claymore on the back of the shoe as well. And I think just. Yeah, just gave him, like, free rein in terms of using the materials he wanted and really collaborating with him in terms of what he thought his audience would like and what Saucony could provide. And I think that's where, like, a lot of footwear brands kind of really excel in terms of creating a product. Both the collaborators really excited to talk about and something that their audience will be excited about too. And I think it's not necessarily something that will drive a lot of revenue, especially these, like, smaller, much smaller collaborators or something, these things that are like a one off. But I think it's something that shows that Saucony is open to working with lots of different creatives, whether big or small, and kind of shows that they're willing to innovate as well. And I think that's why it worked so well for him and probably also.

[Sheena Butler Young]

A credibility component to it. It just. You can tell when there was a genuine collaboration taking place and the shoe looks different, but you can see his influences, but also the brand's identity still there. I think there's. That's more credible and, dare I say it, authentic than what maybe a lot of other sneaker brands have put out lately, contributing to the staleness that your article referenced.

[Julia Labosse]

Yeah, I would definitely agree. I think it's. It shows that, yeah, it's credible to Saucony and just shows that even these smaller brands, I think, are really testing the bigger brands as well. They're showing that, hey, we can do innovation. I think it makes consumers kind of just look different ways because they're like, oh, people here are doing a lot more like interesting things that resonate with me more, rather than just like a usual collaboration that might just be changing the colors of a shoe they've seen hundreds of times before.

[Brian Baskin]

Where do we think this is all headed? I mean, have we hit peak collaboration? Is there any such thing as peak collaboration? I think we say that certainly we all. I think we've probably written that story a few times these last few years.

[Lei Takanashi]

I mean, personally, what I think the future has in store is just like, I think more collaborations with just emerging artists in general. Like, I think it's about time that I think we kind of shift our attention away from just the. The tried and true partners that we've always seen in these kinds of spaces. And I think already in 2025, especially kind of collecting both sneaker and art collabs, like, we're kind of seeing that with the British artist Salon, who is about to get his own, like, Nike Air Max collab. To me, that in itself is super interesting because he was one of the most inquired artists according to Artsy in 2024. But he's also this person who rejects the art world and its roles, you know, And I think what's really funny about dazzpecific Collab is that it's his first real collaboration. There's this Whole shtick du Schlan that he's getting a lot of attention for is that he creates these unofficial collaborations with brands like Louis Vuitton, Rolex and Rimowa. And it's kind of like the same transgression that created this mass appeal for Kaz, who, as a graffiti artist, he went up to bus stops in New York City, took ads out from DKNY and Tommy Hilfiger, went back to his apartment, painted his character on them, and then put them back into these bus stations. And it looked like a real collaboration, but it was actually unsanctioned art that he made. And I think in general, I think fashion always embraces just outlaws and outsiders, especially in terms of creatives cause. And I think we're just going to see that relationship always keep going. I think we'll always see just fashion brands just gravitate towards these artists who are kind of rejecting the traditional rules of the art world.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Julia, where do you think we can go from here? Where are the opportunities to back off?

[Julia Labosse]

Lei? I think, yeah, a lot of you see a lot more creatives or just artists and people in general kind of just going the unconventional route. And even sneaker collaborations. Sometimes these smaller ones, like, they're not even fully financed by the brand. Like the collaborators having to do their own marketing or pay for, like, getting extra if they want to sell the product on their own site, they're having to fork out extra money. So I think people are just trying to do something different. And I think, yeah, it's hard to say exactly where it's going, but I think we're definitely looking for excitement and kind of just more of an experience with collaborations, because I think a lot more consumers are just looking for having just more than the collaboration, like, how does this live and how does it last? And I think that's where we're going to see it going.

[Sheena Butler Young]

I have to ask the billion dollar question, which is, what's AI's role in that?

[Brian Baskin]

Hold on. I'm going to plug fashion collaboration into ChatGPT and see what it suggests for me, because I'm sure that's how some of these come about, frankly.

[Julia Labosse]

Yeah, there is. I have heard things about Reebok. Last year they did some kind of rollout with Instagram in terms of having an experience where you can design a sneaker on, I think, Instagram Stories or something like that. And I think Reebok is really trying to go into the AI space with footwear, but I really don't see. I don't know how that's going to work. And I don't see how people are gonna even. Even interact with that. And I think even just recently hearing a lot about how ChatGPT is like, really bad for the environment and that, like, one search on ChatGPT is like 10 searches on Google. So I think maybe that might spark some kind of. Probably won't much like backlash, but kind of just people might be cautious of things that are made on AI a bit more, but I don't know, it's hard to say. I think it's quite early days still for AI especially to move into fashion, but maybe I'm wrong.

[Brian Baskin]

Yeah, ChatGPT recommended to me a Prada Tesla collaboration, so it might not quite be ready yet for primetime.

[Lei Takanashi]

It's funny though, when talking about something like how AI will change the future of collabs, because in my opinion, I feel like all this shift everything to online, I think is actually kind of like done the reverse effect, where it's like, I feel like more people want to experience collaborations just in like a physical setting or, like, have it connected to like a real experience when it comes to just buying the product itself. Like, you know, I think Art Basel is a great example of that, where you see all these activations around, like, art collaborations. There you get to actually meet the artist. You know, maybe there's like a mural painting event that's happening where David has a chance to take like a picture of a giant statue of like Verdi or something like that. But also just things like Complex Con, Right? When Travis Scott took that over, Nike built this whole coliseum to promote his latest signature shoe. And there was soccer games happening in this space and all that. And I think those types of things are really attracting sneakerheads today to certain drops. I think one of the biggest examples of that was Cortez did another collaboration in Nike, where to get these shoes. They again sent kids on scavenger hunts throughout cities in London and New York. And it was interesting because I was actually at the release for the shoe in New York City, and I saw these kids just waiting online for four hours in front of this mom and pop sneaker store in Bedford Stuyvesant, Brooklyn. And it kind of restored that 2000s waiting in line for sneakers again feeling. And it was centered on a shoot. I wasn't a super popular Nike silhouette. It was an air for huarache. And I don't know, I could never. If someone told me that kids would be lining up to buy huaraches in 2025, I would not believe them at all. But that's the thing. It's like how this brand did it actually got kids to wait for seven hours in the freezing cold just to buy a pair of sneakers. So I think it's really that IRL experience is something that consumers are really looking for when it comes to these types of releases these days.

[Sheena Butler Young]

Yeah, AI is at its best. I think if it pushes us to do more things in person and get more connected, we could all only hope. I think that's a nice place to wrap up today's conversation on a hopeful positive note. Lei and Julia, thank you so much for joining us.

[Lei Takanashi]

Thank you so much. Brian. Thank you so much. Sheena, it was a pleasure to join you.

[Julia Labosse]

Thank you so much, guys. It was a pleasure to be on the podcast.

[Brian Baskin]

Please be sure to check out Lei's article, why Fashion Needs the Art World More than Ever and Julia story why Are Sneaker Collaborations so boring? @businessofashion.com these and other stories are available to BOF Professional subscribers only and you can find the links in the episode notes. You've been listening to the Debrief, produced by Olivia Davies, edited and mixed by Eric Brea. I'm Brian Baskin.

[Sheena Butler Young]

And I'm Sheena Butler Young. We'll be back next week with a new episode. Thanks so much for joining us and be sure to follow us wherever you get your podcast. Cat.