Terri Cole (2:23)

Well, I'll tell you about how the phrase came about is that I've been a therapist for 27 years and in my therapy practice is women like you, women like me, highly capable, highly ambitious, highly successful women. So if I would say, hey, what I'm noticing in your relationship, this is a codependent pattern, they would immediately reject the notion of codependency because they were being sort of unduly influenced by the melody Beatty, codependent no more. I have to be enabling an alcoholic to be a codependent where there's this image of like the weak willed woman Sitting at home crying, waiting for her drunk husband or whatever, whatever it is. And I realized, oh, my clients don't know what codependency is. Like, they really think that that's what it is and actually it isn't. So as soon as I change the phrase to and I added high functioning codependency because that's what it is, that's what it was, that's what I saw. And that was my own flavor of codependency in my experience, right, you teach what you most need to learn. All of my clients were able to raise their hands saying, me, I'm the problem, it's me. Not to quote Taylor, but I will. Without shame though, right? And saying, you're right, I am kind of burnt out. I am exhausted. I do feel kind of resentful just towards these people who work for me who are not doing what I feel like they should be doing or not doing it the way that I think they should be doing it. So it made it so much easier because how could I help them if they didn't see themselves in the problem? It was like impossible for me to get them to the solution if they kept thinking, no, it's really my boss or it's really my subordinates, or it's really my partner, where I'm like, no, man, it's really you. Which is good news because if it's you, then we can change it.

Candy Valentino (4:15)

That's so good. Oh my gosh, if it's you, that's good news because we can change it. So you're seeing this pattern with high functioning people that are like, no, I'm not the victim, I'm independent, which we think is the opposite of dependency or codependency. And so once you get them to not be triggered by the word, is there a pattern that you see in whether men or women that maybe started this pattern of codependency? And how did we get it?

Terri Cole (4:46)

All right, well, let's, let's start with what it is. So we're all on the same page, right? Being a high functioning codependent means that you are overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes, the circumstances, situations, finances, careers, all the things of the people in your life to the detriment of your own internal peace. So I get specific about that, because as daughters and lovers and mothers and friends and decent human beings, obviously we want the people we care about to be happy. When you're in hfc, as we call it, you step over the line. It's not just I wish for you to Be happy. It's I feel responsible for your happiness, which is not the same, is I wish you happiness, you know, so that's basically the definition that we're working on where it's not knowing what is my responsibility and what is someone else's responsibility, what's on my side of the street and what's on someone else's side of the street. So if we look at the behaviors, right, Just, just so people can sort of get a quick, like, what are the traits? How do high functioning codependents act or feel? Well, feeling responsible to fix other people's problems, that's probably number one. Going above and beyond, right? Giving till it hurts and giving even when no one has asked you to. We see a situation that we think should be different or we think something, it would be nice if we, whatever, we'll just take it upon ourselves to do something. I'm always ready to jump into damage control mode because we're excellent problem solvers. And here's the thing, you guys, if you're listening to this and you're like, oh my God, I'm identified as an HFC so far, don't worry, right? When you get into recovery from the dysfunctional parts of this behavior set, you're so much more effective and efficient. But more importantly, you're so much happier. Your nervous system is regulated in a different way. So it isn't like by stopping the dysfunctional parts of this, these behaviors that you're going to suddenly not be an amazing problem solver because that's you, right? This is a part of who you are. It's just the way we do it and how we're always sort of willing to do it without being asked. Hyper. You said before independence, you would think independence is the opposite of codependence. What's interesting is that it's really hyper. Independence is what we experience as HFCs, where we don't love people doing stuff for us. We don't. Don't want to be vulnerable to others in a real way. We don't. I don't want to owe you, right? You don't want to. I don't want to. As an hfc, I don't want to end the biggest thing. I don't want to be a burden. I don't want to feel like I'm a burden. So as HFC is, we're always willing to take one for the team, right? We're all like, it's fine, I'm good, I got it. Don't worry about it. It's Fine, just do your thing. So if you think about it, let's just say you and your partner had jobs where you went to and they were leaving first, they went outside and the car they use has flat tire. You'd immediately yell out the door, take the other one, I'll uber, let's go. Right? You wouldn't say, well, how are you? What are you going to do now, honey? You would immediately be like, don't worry about it, I'll uber, it's fine. Like, we're again, that's the willing to take one for the team. You might feel exhausted, you might feel resentful, you might feel underappreciated. Right. I remember saying to my therapist many years ago, like, who are all of these entitled mother effers in my life? Like, just everyone, expecting, thinking. And then she thought about it and she said, tara, are they though, or are you just serving yourself up on a silver platter and they're just taking you up on it? And I was like, oh, crap. I think it's that. But in my mind it was Betty being entitled, not me, over functioning and over giving, which was really what was happening. So auto advice. Oh, go ahead.

Candy Valentino (9:02)

How do you know? Because I, I don't know if anybody else is thinking this, if they're listening or watching, but it's like, how do you know? Where's the line of being a good person, a cool person, easy to get along with? Right? Like, where is the line? Is it when it starts to affect your mental health or your nervousness? Because I identify in so many of what you said, obviously I've. I now don't do it to my own detriment. Right? Where it's like, now I am a stress ball because I am trying to solve everybody's problem. I always use the little phrase that not all problems are yours to solve.

Terri Cole (9:37)

Candy.

Candy Valentino (9:38)

Right. Which is tough. Animal rescue or all the things as you know. But it's like, where do you. Where is it? Just like you're trying to be understanding and compassionate to people's situations. Like, where do we know that you're blurring the lines and moving over?

Terri Cole (9:53)

Yes. All right, that's a great question. And part of the question is how do we know if it's caring or codependent? Right? That's what we're talking about. And really, I would add, how do we know if it's caring, codependent or controlling? Because at the base of any garden variety codependency or high functioning codependency at the foundation is an overt or covert attempt to control other people's outcomes.

Terri Cole (10:18)

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Candy Valentino (11:20)

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Candy Valentino (11:47)

Hmm.

Terri Cole (11:49)

It's really what we're doing. So one thing that people can do right now, and this is answering your question of like how do we know is you can take a quick resentment inventory and this is going to point you, it's going to act as a little GPS as to where you might need to set a better boundary. Do less. Maybe you're over functioning in a relationship or maybe you're doing something for people that they can and should be doing for themselves that maybe they haven't even asked you to do, but you're just doing it. So once you do the resentment inventory, let's say you come up with I'm resentful at my mother because. Or I come up with she comes to my house without, without calling me first, even though I've asked her to not do that. Let's say so then you have to go, okay, now what is my 50% of that? Well, my 50% is that I let it slide for the past eight months. You know, I used to say something and then she got better and then I just couldn't get into like confronting her all the time. So I let it slide. Okay, so that's on me. Now what can I do? I can have the conversation again. I can not answer. I Can literally say, mom, when I'm in meetings, I'm not answering the door. If you come like, you know, it kind of can get extreme. You can take the keys back. You can. There's other things you can do. Hopefully it won't go to that. But there's always something we can do. If it's a relational problem, I don't mean there's always something we can do. If someone else is struggling with addiction, if there's something else. Right. There isn't always something we can do, even though we always think there's something we can do. And that's the codependent in us. But when it comes to our relationships, if you do that resentment inventory, I think you will find a place to start having conversations and that will tell you where there's more codependency than caring or that the caring is soaked in codependency.

Candy Valentino (13:45)

Love that. And it's. To me, I'm like hearing that almost in a team dynamic too, with employees, it's like if you've got that resentment, potentially, if that's like the maybe measures measure stick or the roller, right. Is to try to like, determine, like, am I resentful for this behavior? This employee continues to maybe do poor performance or showing up to meetings late. What's your 50%? You need to address it, you need to document it, all of those processes. But then it's like, what also do we need to make sure that. That we're. That we're, I guess, instilling a boundary around. Right. It's kind of what goes back to that.

Terri Cole (14:19)

Yeah, yeah. It's like that next step is then making a simple request. Right. I'd like to make a simple request that you come on time to the meetings because it's disruptive when you come late. Right. So something has to be said rather than letting it slide if you think the behavior is going to change. Another thing to think about. And even though this is a tangent, Candy, I actually think it could be a good one for people who are working in teams. Because what I find in my therapy practice is that a lot of times when it comes to business, we recreate our family of origin experience if we have unresolved original wounds. So I had this client who every job she had, she had an arch enemy. Like it was. And she was like, I'm sure everyone has this. I'm like, yeah, no, not at. Never. I've had lots of jobs. That's never happened. But I didn't say that, of course. But I was like, well, we're not talking about everyone, we're just talking about you. So she hate, like, had like this vehement hatred for somebody in her office. So now by the third time, I was like, okay, this cannot be about this. So then, then I said to her, okay, let, let's, let's figure out maybe you're having a transference, right? I didn't say that. I just thought that. So I said, I'm going to ask you these questions. Who does Betty remind you of? Where have you felt like this before? And how is this behavioral dynamic, the way you're feeling bossed around by her and then you're resentful? How is that familiar to you? And just by answering those three questions, and I just call them, and they're in all my work, I mean, I just call them the three cues for clarity. Right, the three questions for clarity. It, like, just revealed that she had a sister who was a bully. And she was literally recreating this relationship in every. And as soon as we talked about it, she no longer hated that lady. It was the weirdest thing. And I've seen this because psychologically, from a mental health point of view, we can only talk things out or act things out. So the reason why it matters that we want to bring this material up from the basement, which is your unconscious mind, to the main part of the house is because even if we're not aware of what's down there, it's still driving our behavior. It was still driving her behavior. The pain of her sister being mean to her as a kid, and she never had any satisfaction. So it's almost like the little kid wants inside, wants a do over. So now I'm going to have this person at work, but I'm going to tell them off and I'm going to get them in trouble and I'm going to not let them boss me around. Which can be, you know, in one respect, it can be a corrective emotional experience. But most of the time, if you haven't integrated and honored the original experience, you just continue repeating it.

Candy Valentino (17:17)

Wow. So you can do that in friendships, in employees you hire, or even if you're not selecting the person, you can just almost transfer, for lack of a better word, like transfer that environment to somebody else in your new world, even though it happened four years ago or whatever. Wow, that's fascinating. So that's why even just bringing it to light is critically important.

Terri Cole (17:41)

And sometimes that's enough to stop the repetition. It's really wild sometimes, just talking about it and honoring it. I mean, that's kind of what it was with this client. She was like, I cannot believe I did not see this sooner. And I was like, but why would you. Because this reality that we're living feels so real. Only. Only if you have had a lot of therapy or you're a therapist, do you think in the terms of parallel process, Like, I'm always thinking, is there something else going on that is similar to this? Am I having a transference or whatever? Like, when we get activated about something, it's helpful to know, like, oh, is this reminding me of something painful from the past that needs my attention? If it does, let me do that to see if I can deactivate that reaction in the present.

Candy Valentino (18:26)

I love that it's a way more eloquent way than what I say. I always just try to say, like, am I. Is. Is this feeling that I'm having right now valid for this experience?

Terri Cole (18:36)

Yes.

Candy Valentino (18:37)

Is how I try to check myself just because I'm like. Because I think if we don't. Then we don't really know if that is if it's warranted now or if it's some.

Terri Cole (18:44)

Yes.

Candy Valentino (18:45)

Triggered or just behavior or pattern that's running from the past.

Terri Cole (18:48)

Exactly.

Candy Valentino (18:49)

The title of your book Too Much. I also think about all of the people that were told throughout their lifetime that they're a little too much. Right. I think especially as females, we're supposed to be, you know, seen and not heard. We're supposed to be pretty and not necessarily have opinions or be bold. And so I think that there's a lot of these almost societal patterns that are running that we become more corrigible and agreeable and try to make everything perfect for everyone and somehow that gives us worth or value. And is there anything that you can speak to? Because I'm thinking of the watcher, the listener that is like, well, okay, I realize I see this in myself, what Terry's talking about, but now if I do something about it, I'm going to be perceived in a negative way. And now all those people are going to say X, Y and Z about me. Is there anything that you could maybe share with them of how to get them over that fear? Because I think that's very real.

Terri Cole (19:45)

Yes. But here's the thing. You know, when we're talking, if we're talking about high functioning codependency. Right. And we really look at the behaviors, we're talking about changing behaviors that other people either they're used to, but they probably don't really like. Right. What is one of the Major behaviors is auto advice giving where we can't stop telling you our grade A advice about all the situations. And we are great problem solvers, but that's something that involves other people. So let's just say if you wanted to shift from, if you identify with that because you're probably the person that a lot of people come to for your brains and your advice that instead of weighing in on other people's situation, instead of auto advice giving, we need to create some internal expansion and breath and instead of just spitting out the information that we think, we're just going to learn to ask expansive questions. So no matter who comes to you with, no matter what it is, and even with employees, I find with people who work for me, they all my team knows this. If there is a problem, I'm going to immediately say, okay, what do you think we should do? Right. Immediately. This is, and even if you, even if you have a six year old kid, this is also valuable to do with them because first of all, we are honoring the other people's sovereignty by doing this. But we're also, especially on teams, right? I'm honoring the fact that I hired this person for their problem solving ability. They're on this team for a reason. I want to know what you think. Like my team is so well trained that they know that a don't come to me with a problem unless you also are coming with a solution. A suggestion doesn't even mean that we do that thing. But you can't just be like laying a dead bird at my feet, like, no, thank you because that's not helpful to me. But it's also, they know the question is always from me will be what is optimal? What is the optimal move? What do you think, in your professional opinion is the optimal move? So if we put this into our relationships, our friendships, our sisters, our partners, whoever it is, the depth of intimacy that you gain by asking expensive questions. What you're. First of all, what you're not doing is centering your sister's problem on your grade A advice, right? They're coming to you with a pain in their heart about something or a situation. And the moment we go, oh, I know exactly what you should do. I've got the perfect book for you, I've got the perfect oncologist for you. I've got the perfect whatever it is, we are literally shutting down communication. We're basically saying to them, you're a problem to be solved and I've just solved it. So can we move on please? Because this is making Me very uncomfortable.

Candy Valentino (22:44)

Wow. And then you're almost training them because as you're talking I'm like, I think I do this some places in my life. Because then it's like you're almost, it's, I always say, like reward the behaviors you want repeated. So it's like when then someone comes to you for that advice or that help and then you solve their problem. Now what happens is in my mind I think, oh great, I helped them, I solved their problem. Now they'll be able to go on. But what happens is then they come back with the next problem, right? And I'm like, wait, yes, that's not what I thought was gonna happen in my head, right? And so then it's like the dentally we are training them and I did this on in my first business accidentally. We're training them to then come to us and not make problem solve, not, not make solutions to their own problems or decisions better. So it's almost like you're saying by asking them the question, presenting the question to them, it gives them the ability to solve their own problem, which then they won't depend on you as much.

Terri Cole (23:43)

And it'll also, it adds value. It adds, you know them now, right, when they start to tell you what they really think. And even with little kids, right, Even if a little kid come home and they said, I had a terrible day, I had a fight with Bobby, instead of immediately saying, we don't fight in this family or whatever parental thing, you might say, go, okay, tell me what happened, tell me what you think you should do. What is the solution to this? And even if the kid says I think I should go in tomorrow and punch Bobby in the face, I'm not saying we're to condone them doing that, but that gives you information about your child. Well, why do you think you should do that? Do you really think that will solve the problem? Let's talk about it. So again, instead of managing people, because think about it. When we're doing the other thing. When someone has a problem and we immediately have the answer or the solution, we're not relating to people in a heart centered way. We're managing them. When you think about like what, what is the real flex in personal relationships is being to me, according to me is being in the foxhole with someone during a dark night of the soul for them and not treating them like a project, being like, how can I best support you letting them tell you rather than you fixing them? Because a lot of times I'll give people back in the day when I was doing this all the time in every relationship. Cause I had no idea I should be doing anything else. I would give stupid advice or good advice. It doesn't matter to someone that they're probably not going to take to make myself feel better. So what's happening? Someone else's pain or discomfort or uncertainty creates pain, discomfort and uncertainty in us. And as HFCs, we really dislike that. Right? In life, people have the right to succeed or fail to thrive, to flail. But if you're an hfc, we do not like people flailing around us. Flailing is not fun for us.

Candy Valentino (25:46)

Right, because you think that if you have the ability to help someone, you should, right? Isn't that a belief? If you can help someone, why wouldn't you? So when someone's flailing around you you think, oh well, if I can just jump in and solve this really quick, I will end or minimize the, their suffering. And so what you're saying is not to do that even when you can, because then it gives that person the ability to solve it on their own. Am I hearing that right?

Terri Cole (26:12)

Yes. But also keep in mind that your motivation isn't just stopping their suffering. Your real motivation is stopping your own. So we can be both. Listen, I'm, I'm the same open hearted, loving, empath, highly sensitive person that I've always been. But my, the way that I relate to people since I became an HFC in recovery has changed. Instead of me thinking I know better than everyone, which is kind of what I thought, honestly, like not to be. When you're a good problem solver, you can always think of what someone should do, what you would do. Especially because, you know, being entrepreneurs, business, like, you know, we're scrappy, like in a different way. And HFCs are scrappy. Like we're, we're willing. We're like the workhorses. You know what I mean? Of all the, of all the dysfunctional stuff. We're, we're the hard workers. But the reality is we don't know what people should do. Now in, in business, it's different. Listen, I look at my business as this is a benevolent dictatorship, right? Like I'm not walking around asking people's opinions about things that I don't care about their opinion about just to make them feel included, let's say, right? Our goal, we have a collective goal of what is best for this company. We know exactly what our values are. We're all in it together. So I'm not talking about being even in business. So my Empathness doesn't make me go, oh, the intern felt left out because I didn't see them on that email. I should go apologize. Like, no, man, you don't need to be on that email. That's why you weren't. And you're not my intern anymore if you complained about that. Right? Like, I feel like there's. There's differences in our personal lives and our business lives, but I think that the truth about what is motivating our desire to auto fix, to auto accommodate. We're doing all this anticipatory planning of, like, who we're going to be with. Oh, if I'm going to be with this difficult person, then I think I'm going to make sure they don't sit next to this person that they don't like. How much time do we spend really dialed into our immediate environment? Because as HFCs, we can be codependent with people we don't even know. I mean, I opened the book with a story that I was probably 22, and I was on a train platform in Long island going back to Manhattan. I had gone out there for my therapy appointment. Why was I seeking therapy in Long island when I lived in Manhattan, you ask? I have no idea. But anyway, I was. So I'm. It's like 10:30 at night on a Tuesday, and I see this kid standing there and he's holding a blanket. He's probably 19. And I'm. It's like a desolate station. I'm like, what? Where is this kid? Immediately, my helper radar was pinging, and I was like, wonder where he's going? So I sat with him on the train and I was like, where are you going? He said, I was hired to drive a car back to Indiana and they canceled the gig. So I'm just going. I'm just gonna go stay in the station. I go, you're gonna go stay in Penn Station? He was like, yeah. I was like, no, man, you're not doing that. It is so dangerous. You will definitely get mugged. And he's like, well, I don't know anyone in New York. And I was like, yeah, you do. You know me. And that's how I came to take a perfect stranger home to my studio apartment that I shared with another woman without even calling her because I felt so overly responsible for this person's outcome. And that is not an uncommon story for hfcs. And listen, you guys listening or watching? Maybe you'd never done the extreme of that. Billy's story. But think about where you have and where you do feel overly responsible for other people's outcomes. And we do these things to our own detriment.

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Candy Valentino (30:33)

So good. And I'm glad you transitioned into your team because that's, that's one of the conversations I wanted to have and questions I wanted to ask because obviously you have phenomenal pract and people see you under this lens of, of all the clinical experience and therapists, therapy. But you also are running a business, you write books, you have a team, you have employees, your husband has like, so you're doing all of these other things. Is there a way that we could leverage better mental health techniques, understanding codependency, boundaries that really make us better leaders? And if we could only focus on understanding a couple things for the sake of our time today, what would be some of the first things that would address that? You see are like, yes, everyone listening can do this or focus on that as really getting better business leadership?

Terri Cole (31:25)

Well, I would say get honest with yourself on where you are over functioning. Where are you doing things in your business that other people should be doing right? Where are you micromanaging, even if it's just double checking or triple checking things. Now listen, quality matters. I'm not saying it doesn't, but if you're really an hfc, it can be difficult to give up responsibility and control of things in a business that you've built on your back to others to really trust that other people can do it. And I mean, you may have been burned in the past too. So I think that we need to get honest about where we're sort of micromanaging. Whether it's from an emotional point of view where you're checking in too much or where are you. Where do you have porous emotional boundaries with the people who you work for? I mean, people who work for you. So I had a client who in her business, she was telling me about one of her employees who went on maternity leave and she's just having all of these emotional problems and like everyone's walking on eggshells in the meeting because she's so Explosive. And I was like, okay, no, the. That she's like, but listen, she just had a baby. It was a hard labor. I was like, listen, her labor and your bottom line are two different things. If she's not ready to come back. But she really needs the money. Okay, well, her finances in that respect are not your business. That is not your side of the street. But that's a very codependent way of looking at it. She really needs the money. That's never a good reason to keep someone on your team. Everybody needs money. Now, I'm not saying ditch the new mom in the snow. I'm not saying, you know, we don't have to be mean about it. But your job as a leader, you always have to be the same way. Like when you're in a marriage, I know you are recently, that our job in a marriage, right, Is to everything I filter everything in my life through. How will this affect me and Vic? How will it affect my, you know, will this affect my marriage? Have the conversation, you know, like, I'm always thinking about my business and my marriage in respect to. I don't just make decisions willy nilly. Right. I think about that. This is the same thing for business. You cannot prioritize the financial situation of an employee over the health of the business. So there has to be. Sometimes we just have to have the hard conversations. Hey, you're really struggling. It's impacting what's happening in the meeting. People are walking on eggshells around you. I really. You. I'm giving you another month off, or I want you to take another month off. And let's really decide. It turned out in that situation that she did that and she didn't come back, you know, And a lot of times people, you know, that will happen that way. But again, my client was feeling unduly responsible for the decisions and the choices and the financial management of the person who worked for her. And those things are not her side of the street. So I think that for anybody listening, again, because especially with businesses, even small businesses, because my business isn't huge. I have 10 or 12 people that work for me. It's like, it's still. You still need to have a clean dynamic. And how you can do that is by being very proactive and having really clear expectations so that people can meet your expectations. And I think that a lot of times in my practice, it's like my clients would be reluctant to be super clear about their expectation, and then they'd be disappointed and they're setting their employees up to fail. So then now I have a whole thing that people do where it's like I have this onboarding, this clarity of exactly the way that I work, what people can expect, what is expected of them. Right. We work on New York time, even if you live somewhere else and you, if you living in London, I cannot worry about what time it is where you are. We all work on New York time and if that doesn't work for you, that's okay, don't take them. This job is not for you. And I think that there's a whole bunch of ways that we can be less high functioning codependent and more healthy when it comes to our employees in a proactive way. And everything is in writing. Right. We know that we have work agreements and we have, I've got a 90 degree, a 90 day clause in every agreement so that I can get out of it if I need to. If I want to have a 14 day clause that we both, either person get. Like, I put all of these in from having bad experiences in the past and being like, wow, I was so not protected. Hello. So those are some ideas that I have.

Candy Valentino (36:38)

I love that, I love that. And I think that there's so much value there for any entrepreneur. Go back and listen to some of that again. Because also you're talking about processes and documentation too. That's so critically important because it'll save you so much time and help you systematize the business. And if somebody doesn't do this, do you find in your practice, can it lead to burnout? Like when you hear entrepreneurs saying they're burnout is could it be from not implementing some of these things?

Terri Cole (37:03)

Absolutely. And, and from bleeding so much emotional and psychological bandwidth. So without a doubt. Because when you think about being a high functioning codependent and we're talking about always being willing to take one for the team, all of this means that there's a lot of self abandonment that's going on. Right. Because in the end of the end, what you think, how you feel and what you want has to matter to you. And it has to matter to you more than what anybody else wants, thinks or feels. And then of course, if you want to compromise in your relationship, sure you can. But I find that that has to be the foundation or the base that what you think, how you feel and what you want is the most important thing to you as a business owner.

Candy Valentino (37:55)

You want how you feel.

Terri Cole (37:58)

Yeah. And the question is, do you think that most people think about that and feel that that's okay?

Candy Valentino (38:07)

I bet Most people don't.

Terri Cole (38:10)

Correct. And most people think it's selfish. Right? Yeah.

Candy Valentino (38:15)

Right.

Terri Cole (38:15)

But it's not. It's. It's really not. It's you taking responsibility for yourself, for the energy you bring, for your expectations, for your own happiness. Because when we're not doing those things, when we're not telling the truth, when we're not talking true, when we're not, you know, asserting what it is that we want, not just wanting peace in the Valley. Right. Because a lot of times there's self abandonment because we just don't want there to be any problems. HFCs don't love a confrontation, not looking to have there be any problems. But when we're self abandoning to avoid those problems, this is where burnout comes in. This is where resentment comes in. This is where exhaustion comes in. And we're. I mean, I've seen it over and over and over again that there's a certain wall that gets hit where people go from caring too much about too many people to almost not caring at all. Right. It's like you just give up. You're just like, I don't even care. Like, I'm not. It's funny. I was interviewed by a woman yesterday, and she said, I want to thank you. I did hit the wall that you describe in the book. And she said, and this Thanksgiving, I said to my husband, I know we already have the tickets, and I know we already have a hotel room, but I don't want to go east. She lives in California. She said, I just want to. I just want to stay home. And he said, all right, babe, I'll stay with you. And she said, you're actually not invited. I need to stay home by myself. Babe, can you just. Can you just go? And he's like, if that's what you need, sure.

Candy Valentino (39:50)

Oh, yeah.

Terri Cole (39:51)

She ordered pizza. She stayed at home for a week, laying on our couch, watching bad movies. And she's like, I was madly in love with him. And he came back. I couldn't wait to see him because I was so grateful for him just honoring what I needed. Whether he understood it or not, he was able to honor it, you know?

Candy Valentino (40:11)

Yeah. And she must have done it in a way that was communicated well. Right. Because that could come across wrong. But I think it's all. It's in the intention of the communication.

Terri Cole (40:19)

Yeah.

Candy Valentino (40:19)

And when you talked about hitting the wall, if any. If Aaron edits this, where you see my response, I'm laughing because I. I'm like, yeah, I know exactly what that wall is. I talk about. In the first book, I talk about it. I called it, like, my version of, like, a nervous breakdown, because I don't think that's what it was. But I didn't know what to call it. But it was just, like, caring about everything and running so hard for so long. I was just like, I am leaving for a month. I don't care who goes with me. I like, literally, because I was in a relationship, I told him, I don't care if you go with me. I'm going regardless. And it go over well. But I went and I told my team at the time, like, regardless what happens, do not tell me, like, if the place burns down, call the fire department. If somebody steals thing, call the police department. Like, seriously, at this point. But it was. I had hit a wall. And I remember thinking, I wonder if I could have avoided this at some point.

Terri Cole (41:12)

Yeah.

Candy Valentino (41:12)

And no better. Because I feel when you trade yourself away little at a time, you end up a fraction of a person. And so for me, I've learned to not trade myself away as much so that I'm not just like this fragment of a human.

Terri Cole (41:30)

Oh, my God, that's so good, candy. It's like. It's like death by a thousand cuts, you know? And then you get to that last cut, and you ran away for a month. And that's. That's actually super adaptive and pretty healthy, actually. If you're gonna. You know, somebody could have. You could have fallen into a bottle or started shooting heroin. You didn't do any of those things.

Candy Valentino (41:48)

So, you know, I just. A really nice resort for Exactly. It was 28 days. Because I learned this fun rule at that time that you can't stay a month at a resort. You can only say 28 days for, like, hospitality laws. So I was like, all right, then I'll stay 28 days. That's. I literally stayed four weeks because that's as long as they would take me.

Terri Cole (42:07)

But I love it.

Candy Valentino (42:08)

Listening. You do not need to run away. It just means that you need to pay attention to what Terry said with that resentment and stop trading yourself away. I'm so grateful that you wrote this book. I'm so grateful that you're putting all this great stuff out into the world. Tell everyone where they can find. I think everyone needs to read this. Where's the best place to pick it up and learn more about you?

Terri Cole (42:28)

Right on. I actually have a gift for your audience. So it's an HFC toolkit. Because I know it's a lot like, you know, we covered a lot. So this will be a great place to start. Just go to terricole.com hfc and there'll be a link to buy the book if you want to buy the book there. There'll also be a link to my boundary quiz and I'd be curious if you haven't taken a candy you should do it in my mind I know what you're going to get but there's like different seven archetypes and I'd be curious. It's very helpful to know like how do I relate to boundaries because this is all connected to codependency. I have a show that you've been on called the Terri Cole show that I've had since 2015 and you guys can check me out on Instagram, just Erricole or my website terricole.com terricole.com HFC.

Candy Valentino (43:17)

And be able to take the quiz. I will take the quiz and I will even have Aaron link it in the bottom for the world to see what archetype I am. Yes please progress too and we'll link all of that here. But thanks again for coming on. It was so good to see you again and just thanks for writing this book and putting your work out into the world. Means a lot.

Terri Cole (43:37)

Thank you so much for having me, my friend.

Terri Cole (43:43)

Hey guys, thanks for tuning in to.

Candy Valentino (43:45)

This episode and if there was something, something that you loved or you had a specific takeaway, share it and tag.

Terri Cole (43:50)

Me at Candy Valentino. And if you haven't already, grab a copy of my latest book, the 9% Edge Life Changing Secrets to create more revenue for your business and more freedom for yourself.

Candy Valentino (44:03)

You can pick it up anywhere books.

Terri Cole (44:04)

Are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble or your local independent store. And once you do, head over to 9% edge.com and claim $1,500 in pre order bonuses, including a chance to join me on this very show. Thanks so much for tuning in and spending this time with me today, guys. We'll see you next time.

Candy Valentino (44:29)

Afford Anything talks about how to avoid common pitfalls, how to refine your mental.

Candy Valentino (44:34)

Models, and how to think about how to think.

Candy Valentino (44:37)

How would a person buy their time?

Afford Anything (44:38)

There are technology hacks. There's of course income hacks, there's outsourcing. If you have the means. Now it's time to take the action and outsource. If you don't have the means, you can't afford to buy back your time. This is the whole point. We want you to stop buying silly objects and start saving so you can get to the position to do these things.

Candy Valentino (44:52)

Make smarter choices and build a better life. Afford anything, wherever you listen.