← The Candy Valentino Show
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- [00:02]
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- [00:31]
Kia Tomlin
Welcome to the Candy Valentino show, the podcast for founders, investors and entrepreneurs where we have honest conversations about what it takes to grow your business, build more wealth, and create financial freedom.
- [00:55]
Candy Valentino
Hey, guys, welcome back to another episode of the Candy Valentino Show. Thanks for tuning in with me today. And you are in for a treat. You guys know that we've been doing different formats on the show as we've got into different seasons. And we are kicking off this season with a really great interview with an entrepreneur that I can't wait for you to meet. Kia Tomlin, thank you so much for joining us.
- [01:16]
Kia Tomlin
Oh, thanks for having me. I'm, I've been excited. Looking forward to this, actually. Very excited. Oh, yay.
- [01:23]
Candy Valentino
I love it. I love to get you the Planner. The Planner is launching in like days, so we'll get you.
- [01:28]
Kia Tomlin
Awesome.
- [01:29]
Candy Valentino
But thanks for coming on. I love your story. Obviously, we have something in common. I'm originally from Pittsburgh. My fans know that. And so when I was talking with my sister in law, you were on her show and I was like, wait a second, I have to meet this badass entrepreneur. So super excited for this conversation. When did you first start your clothing line?
- [01:49]
Kia Tomlin
So I was actually a custom designer for a number of years doing mainly bridal, mother of the groom, red carpet, that type of stuff. And I started the Ready to wear collection in 2014. And really it was, it really was just for myself. It was once I moved out of my home and into a space where I could meet clients without having to travel to their home or having them having to come to my studio space at home. I just, I realized I needed to get dressed and be presentable. But I also had little kids that I really, my life centered around raising my family and the custom design was really just something I did on the side for, you know, a sense of accomplishment, little pin money, or, you know, just for fun. And so I wanted to find something that I could wear easily during the day because when I worked from home, I could, I just, I would sew in my sweats and my workout clothes, just, you know, looking a hot mess. Pajamas didn't matter. But then once I moved to the outside world, I had to wear, wear real stuff. And so I decided to design a sweatshirt dress just for myself so that I could be not first and foremost, comfortable with the type of work I was doing, which was very active, Climbing on top of, cutting tables, scooching around the floor, but also presentable for clients. So I looked professional, and I needed it to be, you know, mobile and flexible because I was running, you know, still raising my family. So soccer games, grocery stores, you know, this, all of that kind of stuff, and then easy to care for. I didn't want to have to mess with dry clean stuff. I want to be able to throw it in the washing machine at the end of the day. And so I created this sweatshirt dress for myself. I wore it every day like a. Like a uniform. And people would stop me on the street and ask me where I got my dress. And so enough people stopped me that I thought, hmm, maybe there's some people that might like this dress. And so that's how the business started.
- [03:38]
Candy Valentino
Wow, that's so cool. So really, it's like you saw a need. Everyone's asking you about it, so you're like, okay, let's see if I can pivot into that.
- [03:44]
Kia Tomlin
Yes.
- [03:44]
Candy Valentino
And I think what happens oftentimes is people will get that feedback like, oh, I love this, or, where can I get that? But they don't take the next steps to create it and let alone figure out how to monetize it and acquire customers. So from that moment where you're like, okay, maybe more people want my sweatshirt dress, where. Where did you go next? Like, did you literally say, okay, I'm going to start manufacturing this and selling it? Did you do it boutique, kind of like on the side? Like, what was the path?
- [04:10]
Kia Tomlin
It was. It was a. The path was a hot mess is what it was.
- [04:13]
Candy Valentino
It did it always.
- [04:16]
Kia Tomlin
So I. I knew that I didn't want to make the dress myself. I, you know, was kind of snobbish and was like, no, I do couture evening wear. I'm not making a sweatshirt dress like a sweatshop. And so I spent about a year learning to work with a factory. I. I don't. I have no fashion aside from just sewing. Since I was a little girl, I've never worked in the fashion industry. I don't know anything about it. And so I spent about a year trying to figure out how you work with a factory, how you manufacture, what do I need to do, and had these. This dress made. And of course, when you work with the factory, they don't want to make three dresses. You have to make A lot of dresses. And so after I made a lot of dresses, then I had, I kind of had to figure out like, oh crap, how do I get rid of these? You know, I can't sell all of these just to my custom clients that come in the door. And so then it was like, okay, how do I, how do I, how do I get into wholesaling? And so just learning that path of wholesaling and then it went into direct to customer online. As the apparel industry started making ground online. Previously, people were leery, especially in my target market, leery of buying clothing online. They want to try it on, they want to feel it, that kind of thing. And so yeah, so then figuring out how to do it that way.
- [05:28]
Candy Valentino
So figuring out wholesale, Right, So you started wholesale and then you also did D2C on your own site or your own.
- [05:35]
Kia Tomlin
So yes, but that really came as a kind of a redirection. We were wholesaling and we had gotten our, we were in a number of accounts across the country and we had just landed some accounts in Europe which we were really excited about. Not, not a lot, but it was kind of cool to say, like we were international. So we were proud of that. And just after we landed those accounts, our fab, all of our stuff is made here in the United States. At that time, our fabric was being knit for us, especially in la. It was a special content that we use. And the mill called and said one of their knitting machines was broken. And it's not an easy fix, I guess, these big huge knitting machines. And so they weren't able to finish our fabric order, which meant we weren't able to send it to the factory to get our orders off in time that, you know, we could keep those accounts. So what I did was I called the mill and I said, whatever fabric is done, send it to me. And I leased a little warehouse space in, you know, a less than desirable area of town. And I had, at that time I had one full time employee who was a recent college graduate, majored in fashion design. So she knew how to sew. And then I hired some part time art institute design students. We used to have a fashion design school here in town. We don't anymore, but I hired about three of those part time and together we were able to sew ourselves the orders that needed to go overseas. And so we got those off, but we were never able to circle back and fulfill the United States orders. And when you don't deliver on your orders, they cancel your accounts and they don't want to do business with you anymore. So we lost all of our wholesale accounts. And so that's when we had to kind of transition to stay afloat into direct to customer online. And that's also when we started making those. That stuff in house.
- [07:33]
Candy Valentino
I love that. So it's like, okay, here's a problem, right? You lose all these accounts, but you don't quit. You just decide to pivot into a different direction. And how do we just send this to the consumer and now to the person listening or watching right now that. Because I'm literally thinking of three or four people off the top of my head that I know are avid listeners and are in like event circle and stuff. They have a product, it's a great product. They have proof of concept, they have customers, they just don't know how to sell it to more customers. So now that you had this concept, now that you're getting up to D2C, you're starting to sell it outside of wholesale. How did you start to attract more people to know about what that product was and how to get it into their hands?
- [08:12]
Kia Tomlin
I mean, I definitely think that's the hardest part, and I think that that's where a lot of creative people struggle and go wrong. We get so caught up in the hobby of it and the love and, you know, our love for it to kind of think about what people really want and what are we providing. So, I mean, to me, that's just the constant struggle of getting more customers and getting my brand out there. And it really is. For me, it's about listening to the people that like the product. So my customers that currently like my product, you know, why do they like it? Who are they, what do they do, what are they using it for? And then going out and finding other people like them. So direct to customer. One thing I did was I looked on my, you know, database and I picked out the top 30 customers that have spent the most. And then I kind of Google LinkedIn search them and I could see like, oh, okay, she's a dentist, she's a realtor, she's a this. And there was some overlap. Like we found we've got a decent number of realtors, a decent number of doctors, dentists, like that type of professional entrepreneurs. Surprisingly, we didn't have a lot of teachers, which I was like, oh. Because I know teachers have said they like this, but we realize we're not in the price point for teachers. They might like it, but it's more expensive than they want to afford to buy their clothes. So then how Do I position myself? How do I find more of those doctors? How do I find more of those realtors? And so, you know, we did a, recently we did an in house private event with UPMC Doctors Hospitals and it was a charity, a charitable event. A portion of the proceeds of sales went to the, what they were raising money to. But we got those doctors in the door because we have found that doctors like our stuff. So then, you know, once we introduce them to the brand and very inexpensively on our end then you know, they'll come back, they'll spread the word, they'll wear it to work and tell their other doctor friends. So just really trying to get creative and do the research on the back end.
- [10:22]
Candy Valentino
It's brilliant. And I don't know if you got, if you have actually read any of the 9% edge, but exactly what you just talked about is the one thing that we talk about in the sniper strategies. It's like find the customers that spend the most and then how do you just go find more of them? Right. Because that's going to be cheaper than trying to go really wide with customer acquisition and trying to bring all those people and then see if they're even your people. So I love that you did that early on and how did that. Because obviously we're talking, are we up to about like 2016 or so of the story prior to.
- [10:52]
Kia Tomlin
So 2016 was. Yeah, that's about when our, when we kind of fell apart wholesale wise and we kind of started our own little mini, mini scrappy factory selling.
- [11:03]
Candy Valentino
So you, so you start that. Right. And then obviously what it is today with you being able to get NFL licenses and all the teams, I mean that what exactly transitioned, if you could summarize it and if you could speak to what, how, how did you have to elevate your own mindset and your own level of leadership to go from this scrappy spot where you're just trying to figure it out to now you're like an actual legit brand and now you're partnering with, you know, one of the largest organizations in the country. So what does that look like and how did you have to evolve in order to allow that to even come in?
- [11:41]
Kia Tomlin
Yeah, first off, it was definitely just listening to, listening to what people want. If people are asking for it, you know how many people are asking for it, is there really enough people asking for it? So that's really how we even got into the sports. The sportswear line is when I opened my store, people would come and, and want to know, like we're in Pittsburgh, so it's kind of crazy, you know, Steeler. Steeler country here would come in and be like, well, where's the Steeler stuff? Don't you sell Steeler stuff? Where are the Steeler designs? And. And I would. I just was so confused. I'm like, no, I don't sell Steelers stuff. Go to the mall. There's like, a ton of that crap, like, anywhere else. You can go anywhere and find it. But then I started to think about why they were asking and why, you know, I looked at myself and I don't. You know, my. I'm married to a football coach. We've coached for a number of teams, and I've never worn team apparel. Why is that? And it's because I. I didn't like it. I. It wasn't. I'm. You know, I'm into fashion. It wasn't my fashion sense. So I'm thinking, like, well, maybe that's why women are asking me. They're seeing what I'm doing with my regular brand, and why am I not offering fashionable stuff in the sports arena? And so I was like, well, maybe if I designed something that I would wear, maybe there are more women out there that would are. That's what they're looking for as well, similar to the sweatshirt dress. And so I started that, and it turned into a huge hit to the fact that I was kind of starting to get a little nervous about, like, you know, trademark infringement. And I kind of just wanted to stay away from that whole thing. And so when we started having customers from fans of other teams asking us to do the, you know, styles for them in their colors, initially, we kind of did. We're like, okay, yeah, it's just purple, whatever. But then we started. I started to get a little nervous about that trademark stuff. So I reached out to the NFL to see if, you know, what does licensing entail. And it was not an instant or easy road at all. It was. They were very uninterested to start with. I will say that I. My one advantage was that I had worked on in Pittsburgh. We do a big charity fashion show for this that the Steelers put on that raises a lot of money for the concussion program and cancer cares and stuff. And so I had worked with the NFL prior to that just for dealing with fashion show stuff. I had been given, like, a temporary permission to create, like, evening gowns with, you know, Steeler logos on it and that kind of stuff. So it was beneficial in that I knew who to talk to at the Steelers and So I, or at the NFL, excuse me, @ the leave office. So I reached out to them and just, you know, inquired and kept inquiring and kept, you know, just kind of stayed on the radar. And it really wasn't until Covid that when there was a lot of support for small businesses and diverse businesses that if you remember there's a lot of social justice stuff going on at the time as well, that they started to be interested in, you know, some more smaller, diverse brands doing unique things. Like if you could bring something unique to the table that the big, the big licensees weren't doing, they were doing, you know, the big licensees do T shirts, they do hoodies, you know, what are we doing that's different? That's when they were like, okay, let's talk. And so that's how that became. But I will say to your question about what transpired within myself was really just kind of getting over the self doubt and just believing that like I deserved and belong to be here. I'm doing something unique and creative and people like it and they want it and give it a try and what's the worst that can happen? And so that really was kind of.
- [15:33]
Candy Valentino
The, I guess the push, sage advice as well, right? It's like, you know, your own limiting beliefs. What's the worst that can happen? Love that you shared that. That wasn't one phone call that it took, it sounds like a couple years.
- [15:46]
Kia Tomlin
Oh yeah. Oh yeah, it took a few years.
- [15:48]
Candy Valentino
Okay. So that's because otherwise you were like, okay, it's Coach Tomlin's wife. Of course you made one phone call and they say, okay, sure, you can do it. But that wasn't the case, right?
- [15:56]
Kia Tomlin
Oh no, no. They kept telling me no and is that. And it might have been because I'm Coach Tomlin's wife. I don't know.
- [16:02]
Candy Valentino
Yeah, you're right. You never know. Is that something that you've had to deal with? Like is there as a FEMA email and paving your own path, having your own business, having your own, your own thing that lights you up, that's successful. Have you ever had to deal with that? You know, whether it's self belief or from others, where people somehow minimize or you minimize in your mind what it is that you do because you're married to the Steelers head coach.
- [16:33]
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- [16:59]
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- [18:02]
Kia Tomlin
A little bit of that, but I would say probably more so for my case was I grew. My parents divorced when I was little and I was raised by my single mom. She was a college professor, but like they weren't paying much and so she would take on, you know, midnight shift jobs just to make ends meet. You know, she worked UPS, midnight shift, Dunkin Donuts, she worked a plastic factory doing, you know, inspection in the middle of the night. And I just, from that time on I always just knew that I wanted to work, I needed to work, I needed to be able to support myself because I would look at my friends, moms who were, you know, I used to just be like, that's what I want to be. I want to be an at home mom. I want an at home mom. I want to be an at home mom. I want them to bring cupcakes, you know, to school for my birthday and be room mom and all that stuff. And I would think back to like, if something happened in that marriage, that woman would not be able to support her and her kids or she'd be stuck in an undesirable situation. And so I always knew that that's what I wanted to be capable of, whether I needed to or not. So fortunately I haven't needed to yet. But I, what I did need is I needed to feel capable of doing that. And so that's the driving force for me. And there was a time because Mike and I got married young and then, you know, we started having kids. It was, it was, I Remember like the exact warning it was, we had won the super bowl and it was a little bit after that and he was getting up and going to work, you know, crack of dawn like normal. And I remember I had just spent so many, so much time being miserable and I didn't know why and I was just bitchy and I was judgmental and I was just not a nice person. And I realized that it really was because I felt like I had become an appendage to his dream and I didn't have something of my own that, that I loved. And you know, I would go to events and you know, he would get whisked away to sign autographs or talk or do whatever and I'd be stuffing my face at the buffet table and the people that did come up to me just wanted to talk about my husband and, and I knew that like growing up I always had things that I wanted to do and dreams that I wanted to do and I love, you know, because of his career and honestly, to be honest, because of my own self doubt, I didn't pursue those and instead just kind of sacrificed in quotes, sacrificed what I wanted to do to allow him to lead, follow his dream. And so yeah, that's probably mostly what I struggled with. But then it's also the same, I'm sure a lot of people and women primarily, I think, unfortunately, I think we do struggle with a lot of self doubt. I'm 50, so I was raised at the time where kids or girls especially are supposed to be seen and not heard. We're supposed to be polite and you know, follow the rules, unlike the boys who are able to just be wild and crazy and break things and experiment and you know, fast and furious. And so it did take me a long time to kind of realize that and to realize that being being polished and pretty is not going to get me anywhere except sitting there looking polished and pretty.
- [21:21]
Candy Valentino
I love that. Oh my gosh. And that was so. There was so much in there, I think anyone pause and rewind that because I think that was, there's a lot of value in what you just shared. It was really brilliant of how you had to again kind of overcome your own self doubt and really understand your identity like who you are in the world outside of a marriage, outside of being a mom, outside of all these other things. And so it's, it's so good. I think some people don't have the self realization and the self awareness that you did to say like why am I miserable? When maybe society, society thinks I have it all right. And really, to be able to do the work, to get through it and then actually do something about it, which you've obviously done. So we get into the point where now you finally are knocking on the NFL's door. For years. They finally say, okay, Covid, you start. Do you start automatically with all of the teams? Like, what does that look like? Because from my mind, I'm thinking it's one thing to have a small area that you're producing products, but now you have to all of a sudden, scale. There's a lot of issues that can come in that. Was there any issues that came as you were scaling up and what were some of the things you had to re. Pivot and work through?
- [22:30]
Kia Tomlin
Yeah, so fortunately, I think I was one of the first small businesses that they kind of took in to start this. So they were. It was a little experimental, and they were very gracious in allowing me time to kind of ramp up. So the first year of the license, I was supposed to start with, like I said, 10 teams. And at the last minute, they were like, okay, wait, you know what? Let's just start with the Steelers. And I was like, okay, so we'll start with the Steelers. Now, I will say that was a little bit. It sounds like that would have been a relief. But in terms of production in factory, now I have. I have to make but so many styles just for the factory to take me. So now I've got this exorbitant amount of Steeler stuff when I had planned on making 10 teams out of that, you know, kind of minimum order. So we had this ton of Steeler stuff that we have the figure out how to sell. But it did allow us to kind of just manage one team and one set of colorways. Then the next year, we added on nine teams to get to a total of 10 teams. Then the following year, we added on 11. And then this year is the. We added on the final 11. So we're. This is our first season at 32 teams. It is. It is very hard to manage the 32 teams with. Especially we. First off, our. Our aesthetic is a lot of color blocking, for the most part. So color blocking is when you have actual colored pieces of fabric. So it's not like we print black T shirts and slap a screen print of the team on there. We have to buy the. The fabric colors for all 32 teams and two colors for all 32 teams. Fortunately, some of them overlap, so we can kind of bundle them together. They're like, for example, there's a Lot of. There's like maybe five or six teams that use that Steelers gold fabric as, you know, if not a main color, the, you know, a secondary color kind of thing, but keeping that all organized. So the second year, when we added the 10 teams and we outsourced it to a factory, it was such a nightmare to communicate with the factory about all these different colors, especially since most of their seamstress seamstresses probably don't even follow football. Could care less. They have no concept of color. The colorways, it was very confusing and a lot of communication. And so we decided to bring it in house to our little makeshift factory and do it in house where we could control the colorways, but also not only control the colorways, because one thing we had discovered when I, when we had our. Our big mill incident and we had to start making stuff in house is we liked that. I say we. It was like two of us. We, me and my one assistant, we like that we had control over what we were producing. If something wasn't selling well, we would just stop making it and set that fabric aside. Real call it, reallocate it to another design. We didn't have to make 5,000 of something to then realize, like, oh, nobody likes this. Now what do we do? We just wasted all that money. So it was really helpful to do the NFL collection that way, because I have to buy a certain amount of, say, Seattle Seahawks lime green. If Seattle Seahawks are not having good season, no one is buying that stuff. And so it. By doing it in house, it allows me to stop producing Seattle Seahawks green, hold that fabric till next season, and use it then, as opposed to, if I'm working with a factory man, they've already made, you know, 3,000 Seattle Seahawks green, whatever's that are not going to sell because they're not having a good season. I actually don't know if they're having a good season this year or not.
- [26:01]
Candy Valentino
Just I don't either.
- [26:03]
Kia Tomlin
For the sake of the lime green color.
- [26:07]
Candy Valentino
Seattle Seahawks fans that are like, they're having a great year.
- [26:09]
Kia Tomlin
Yeah, yeah.
- [26:10]
Candy Valentino
We don't know. We don't.
- [26:11]
Kia Tomlin
I seriously don't know. So. So, yeah, so that was a lot of the. That was. Logistically, that's the complication. And then additionally, on top of that is the marketing. So now I'm marketing to 32 different team customers and trying to understand that as well as what I. When I went into the NFL collection, when I first started, the customers, for the most part, they were asking me, were my own customers. So I was Thinking, okay, it's the same target base. Like, it's my woman that buys my. It's my doctor, you know, now she wants to buy an NFL thing that she can wear to the suites or to the, you know, on. On Friday Steeler game day or whatever. And when I launched, I realized, like, it was a lot less of them than I expected because they may not be super, you know, super football fans. They buy one poncho and they're good for the next three years. They're just gonna wear that poncho every time they go to the game. It was the rabid fans that wanted it. But the rabid fans are, for the most part, in a different target market, like, a different price point. And they're used to the, you know, the 25 T shirts and the 28 hoodies. And that's not what I'm selling. So even though they liked it, they were angry. And when they let. They let us hear it. So then, like, trying to figure out the messaging. So either I cave and start making cheap stuff that's already out there, or I have to get stronger about my messaging and. And not get my feelings hurt when people are trashing the brand and just understanding, like, I'm sorry, they're just not our customer. Like, do you call Louis Vuitton and, you know, complain and yell at them because their handbags are $3,000? No, you just move on and go, you know, go to TJ Maxx or wherever you're going to find a knockoff. But to understand that, not. Not take it personal and to really kind of dig in and. And who is my customer? Where is that woman that's going to spend $150 on a sweatshirt and NFL sweatshirt and how to get to her?
- [28:15]
Candy Valentino
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, it's so good, and it's so true. As you were talking, I was thinking, oh, my gosh, this is probably a totally different market than what you had already established. And then that's really hard because there's a little bit of that, like, learning process again, where you have to go back through and go, where is this person? And with the 32 different areas, I guess if you're doing digital advertising, you can probably really direct, like, specific images to that specific team and city. But you do it 32 times. What did you find out was, like, your best customer acquisition strategy for the 32 different markets? Were you just trying to go all NFL or did you eventually have to break it into 30 different strategies for each one of them?
- [29:01]
Kia Tomlin
We're doing all NFL just because I don't have the budget to break it down into 32 different teams. But it really is like, for example, we. There was a thirst was Amazon, I think Amazon Prime, I think airs the Thursday night games. And I was lucky enough to get a little 22nd spot where they just kind of mentioned our brand. And that was. The orders came pouring in and we're like, ah, there they are, there are people. So yeah, we're still, we're definitely still trying to figure out and you know, digital marketing for the NFL collection works. One thing I will say with the licensing with the NFL is that it is not. I have a lot of limitations put on by the NFL. For example, I can't sell the. I can't sell the dicks. I can't sell to Macy's, I can't sell. There's a lot of places I am not contractually capable of selling to. And so it does make it really tricky if I'm limited just to my own website and boutiques, like kind of that tier of, of shopping. So it's, it's not like, oh, you just need to get a dick account with Dick sporting goods. It is, yeah. There's a lot more into licensing. If anybody's in licensing or interested in license licensing, that is. Yeah. Have to navigate.
- [30:27]
Candy Valentino
I think that's really cool because. Right. Somebody could be thinking, well, why aren't you in Dixon? Why aren't you here? And all these other places. So for someone that is maybe trying to do licensing or think that it's some like simple cakewalk that you all of a sudden just get massive distribution when you get the license, except explain how it works, is do you have to pay for them? Is there a percentage of sales? Like break all of that down for someone, be interested or just intrigued in the process.
- [30:50]
Kia Tomlin
Yes. So the way. So NFL is the only licensing that I'm working that I have experience with. And so they give you what they call a guarantee. And so that means that I have to guarantee the NFL is going to get X amount of dollars. And that is determined by a royalty rate. So they'll say every item that I sell, the NFL gets X percentage of that. So all of my X percentages of everything I sell should add up to that guarantee dollar amount that they gave me of which I have to pay upfront. So I pay that upfront. And then if I sell nothing, then I just paid the NFL, you know, X thousands of dollars, you know, to do nothing. I just lost money. If I sell more than that, then I Still have to keep paying them their 20%. So that's pretty much how it works. But the issue comes in, and we. We learned this the hard way. We did a. After the, you know, like, after football season's over, there's definitely a drop in sales for NFL stuff. Um, so leading up to the, you know, through the playoffs, leading up to the super bowl. And after the super bowl, we're like, okay, this is going to be the last time that we're able to sell stuff for the NFL. It's going to. Sales are going to dry up until next August. So let's just, you know, have like a sale and get. Keep the orders coming. And so we did a, you know, we did a great sale. And I remember, like, oh, man, we had a great month. I was all excited. And then when I met with my accountant, he was like, no, you actually lost money. And I was like, what? We did so well. And he was like, well, the NFL takes their percentage out, then you put it on sale, and then you spend this much on marketing to market the sale. And so that's kind of where I realized, like, oh, like, the numbers are extremely important and more so important in this scenario than they are in some of our other stuff. Like, I just. With licensing, I don't really have the wiggle room. And so I have to be very conscious and thoughtful of that. And it was. It was, you know, go back to our previous conversation about who my target market was and who wanted the product. I was like, okay, well, we'll have the sale. And so the people that want the product will get the product and, you know, they'll stop complaining about it and we'll sell it. And they did, but it cost us and we lost getting it to them.
- [33:12]
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- [33:42]
Candy Valentino
Expensive lessons. I can. 26 years doing this, I've had them. And then it's like, that's how you learn, right? You're like, okay, let's never do that again. It's like really paying attention to the numbers. And is that something that came Easy to you, like, paying attention to the numbers, looking at your profit margins, understanding all of that, like, was that easy, or is that something that you had to develop along the way?
- [34:03]
Kia Tomlin
Oh, my God, this is so frustrating to me. And I have to say, like, that is why I love your book. First of all, you are just so badass. And I was, like, so excited when I started reading the book. But it is like a textbook to entrepreneurs. And I wish I had had that years ago in just easy to understand plain English and just really, like, the bullet points, like, it didn't go too far down any rabbit holes where it was just over my head. It was just like, these are the first things that you need to be looking for and need to be doing. So. It was not easy for me. And I think for a lot of us creatives, we get, you know, caught up in what we love to do and what we love to make and the hobby of it. And we either underestimate the importance of the business side of it, or we don't understand it, and so we avoid the business side of it. And I remember, like, I would hot. I'm an average believer in coaching. I think it comes from. I was a gymnast that did gymnastics up through college. I'm married to a coach. Like, I just believe in coaching in all areas. I always think about it, like, as a gymnast, I wouldn't just start flipping in my backyard hoping to make it, get a college scholarship. No, you get a coach. So think of that in the same way as business. So I have business coaches. And I remember I early on, I would meet with people and they would say, whether they were, you know, a coach in a different area or just some conversation, and they would say, oh, you've got to know your numbers. Know your numbers, know your numbers. And I remember I would get so frustrated and irate. Like, not. Not physically while they were there, but after, I'm like, what numbers are you talking about? Like, tell me the numbers. And I just felt like they would just say that because that's like, you know, you just sound so smart, like, oh, you gotta know your numbers. And I'm like, numbers. And I could not put out, like, life of me figure out what numbers they were talking about. Well, your book tells you all of you know exactly what numbers you need to be paying attention to. So I definitely appreciate that. But yeah, it was. It was not easy. And it really is something even continually, that I have to really discipline myself to do, to sit down and really block out. Okay, Tuesday morning, you're going to spend from 9 to 10. You're going to, you know, pull out your spreadsheet, and these are the things you are looking at, and these are the things you're tracking. And initially, like, I was just looking at numbers, and, like, I didn't really know what they were doing. But over time, repetitively, from doing it, I start to understand why I'm doing it and what they mean. And then you start to hear other, you know, tidbits or pieces of advice or direction that, you know, kind of correlate to the numbers and be like, oh, that's why I'm tracking that. Like, so, for example, like, average order value, you know, now I can say, okay, well, I know my. For, like, years, I knew my average order value was 150. I didn't know what I was supposed to do with that. I just knew. But now I've, you know, years later, have added some different products, done some different things, and I see that my average order value has gone down. And then. So now it's like, okay, well, what do I do to get my average order value back up instead of just go. Instead of always looking for new customers, because that's expensive to get new customers. Here's another way to grow the business is look at my average order value and can I bundle it? Can I upsell it? Can I, you know, what can I do to get back to $150 average order value? So, yeah, so know your numbers. But, like, if you don't know what numbers to, like, know, like, get the book. Thank you.
- [37:28]
Candy Valentino
Oh, my gosh. You're saying the AOV and how to increase it. I'm like, you're speaking my love language, talking about all this stuff. But it is frustrating, right? It would be like the same I always say, when people say, like, well, know your numbers. Well, if they don't tell you anything more, they probably don't even know what numbers.
- [37:43]
Kia Tomlin
Yeah, that's what I felt like.
- [37:44]
Candy Valentino
Yeah. And they probably did it, right. It was just the thing to say. But it would be like, if you're like, hey, Candy, go sew this sweatshirt. I'd be like, okay, I'm game. But like, what do I do? Right? I wouldn't have a clue. So it's like, you need to tell me, like, okay, you're going to start here and then you're going to pay attention to this, and then you, like, that's what's important about it. But once you. But I still wouldn't develop any skills in that if I didn't do it right. So you can't just tell me how to. So I actually need to sew in order to figure it out and to get any good at it. So that's how, like, taking that time, like you said, just blocking it out, even if it seems like it's French at first, you know, like you don't know what you're saying, then it's like doing it over and over again. So that's. It's interesting that it didn't come natural to you, but now you've been able to develop it and understand it, and it's going to continually help you to grow your business. Understanding those KPIs and those metrics.
- [38:34]
Kia Tomlin
Yeah, I will say I'm still working at it. I'm not like, I'm not coaching anybody else. I'm still just staying disciplined and trying to get better every day.
- [38:42]
Candy Valentino
That's so good. So we've got up to the licensing, obviously, that's 2020. You're figuring out how to get this. You're obviously, you know, not just trying to acquire new customers, which I love because it costs five times more to acquire one than it does to resell to an existing one or upsell them. So I love that you're focusing on that. What are some of the things that you're looking to do? We're now. End of 2024. Right. We've got. We've got a Super bowl coming up in February. Ish. Right. So you're still selling and focusing where. What's on your heart? What are you looking to create or do or expand the business in what way? Because now you've had this great opportunity, but it's like, okay, what do we do next? Really?
- [39:22]
Kia Tomlin
I'm still at a place where I'm trying to just get more fluid at it, and I just, you know, we're really just constantly working over time like pants on fire and so really trying to get some organization and systems in place so that it can run more smoothly so that I can take on other things or, you know, be right now. I'm like, at the point right now that I don't even know that I could dream about what I want to do next, because I see so many areas of improvement of where I am, where we are right now, and where we want to get to before I can kind of take on something else. I know, like, one thing we're working on, if, you know, if we want to continue with the NFL license, which, you know, I reevaluate every contract renewal, is if I You know, if I. If I love doing it, and I think I'm adding value to the market, how can. And it's, you know, not as profitable as you would think it should be. How can I balance that in other areas of the business? So maybe our regular. So this year, we decided to outsource our regular Kia Tomlin collection and take that overseas to give us a bigger profit margin so that we could kind of carry that over and share that with the NFL collection, since that one doesn't have as much. But it also. My kind of, like, proud moment, I guess, is. Is the factory that we've built here in Pittsburgh. And we. Our seamstresses are all Afghan refugee women. They don't speak any English. They actually came to me through a Christian health center that when they came over from Afghanistan after the big evacuation, they were working on some mental health, isolation, the lack of. Of speaking languages. Many of them had little babies, and there's just a lot of depression and isolation. And they learned that these women sew, and they like to sew. And so someone reached out to me and said, like, hey, I hear you, so I have no idea what you do, but I've got these women. Maybe, you know, we could talk and see what there is here. And so when I met with them in a translator, I assumed they, you know, do you want my fabric scraps? You know, like, you want some old sewing machine? Like, I didn't know what they wanted. And after talking to them, they said, like, our husbands can work. We want to work. And I. And so I was like, oh, what does that mean? You want me to, you know, round up some people that you can sew for or. And they said, no, like, we want to. We want to work for you. And I. It had always kind of. It had always been my dream to have my own factory. And we, you know, we did it in small scale. We could, you know, we did, like, little on demand stuff. But to have a population of people that wanted to do it, because it is hard to find people that want to do that work, that gave me the inspiration to start a factory. And so I spent a year figuring out how to. How to run a factory. And like I said, I've never worked in the fashion industry before, so it definitely was and still continues to be a learning experience. But to be able to employ these women that have. That cannot speak English and would have very limited opportunity to work at a good wage doing something else, on top of, they have small children, babies, I give them flexible work hours. So if you want to work only while your child's in school, that's fine. If you want to put your baby to bed at 10 o'clock at night and come over and sew, you've got the code to get in and you can sew then. We even tried childcare in house for a few months that didn't quite work, but it was a good try. So to be able to support those women to the point where one was able to get a driver's license and buy a used car, another one was able to, along with her husband, leave their section 8 housing and buy a home of their own, like, that to me, balances out like, yeah, the NFL collection's not overly profitable, but like, that is the profit I enjoy right there is seeing that happen. So, yeah, that's kind of like expanding on that dream, I guess, is what. Is what I would like to do.
- [43:33]
Candy Valentino
That's so good. So the entire NFL collection is still sewn in Pittsburgh by women?
- [43:39]
Kia Tomlin
Yes.
- [43:41]
Candy Valentino
Wow. And do you lead with that in your. In your marketing and in your messaging? Because I feel like there's a whole sector of people that would buy just for that.
- [43:50]
Kia Tomlin
I didn't and I don't yet. And really, at first it was because, like, I didn't know how it was going to work, so I didn't want to bring too much attention to it if it was all up in my face. Yeah, I'm like, that would be a bad look. And then, then secondly, I, I do, I am concerned about their safety and just there's, you know, a lot of, you know, hate in the world. And so I'm very protective of them. We don't, you know, advertise where we're located. We don't, you know, there's no signage, the windows are tinted. You know, it's. It's very private. And, and so it really, it was more of that as well. Now that we're, now that we're, you know, I'm seeing progress and I'm seeing like, okay, we're, we can do it. We're. We're managing. It's, you know, it's a good thing. And, and the ladies are okay with it. We do speak a little bit to it, but we haven't gone on a full scale, like, marketing because at the same time I also feel a little like I don't want to exploit them and be like, hey, yeah, so I'm very careful about that too. I mean, I'm proud to say we are made in America, which I do think a lot of people under estimate how hard and expensive it is to make in America. Other countries are just so much better set up and equipped to do it logistically. And I was even shocked. And when I sent our fall winter collection overseas and that was the first time I've ever manufactured overseas, the ease with which it was all handled was like, oh, my gosh, I have a whole nother life now that I can, like, focus on something else. Whereas when you manufacture in America, you are doing absolutely everything. There is no system or tie that just, like, I give them my idea and whips it up and it happens. No, I'm like, I'm. I'm. I'm at the mill knitting. You know, just about knitting the fabric myself. Then I'm carrying the. To the cutting to the facility to cut it. Then I'm bundling it myself, and I'm taking it somewhere else. And just logistically, we are not set up in America to do that anymore. And so it is very hard and very expensive. And so some people appreciate it. Some people appreciate it and are willing to pay for it. Some people appreciate it or not, but are not willing to pay for it.
- [46:00]
Candy Valentino
So, yeah, it's such a thing that you're doing, though, like, and it is really cool. It's rare to have anything manufactured for that reason. It's extremely difficult. So it's like, there has to be a little bit of that love and passion behind it. You have that passion for these women, too, which is just remarkable. I want to make sure that everyone that's listening or watching us gets access to. See, because I think you're wearing the sweatshirt that's my favorite sweatshirt in your collection. Yes. And it's like a. It's like a shorter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So where can everyone find you? Work. Oh, my gosh, look. Where can they find you? Where can they find the line? Or both. Both of the NFL collection and your other collection together.
- [46:45]
Kia Tomlin
Where. Yes. So we're all. It's all on Kia Tomlin us. And there was. We have three little tabs kind of designed after, like, Gap, Banana Republic, Old Navy. You just kind of switch tabs. So it's the Kia Tomlin collection, which is just our main brand, and I call it comfortable clothes for stylish women to help them live authentic lives. And that's really the basis of the brand. Then we have the NFL collection, and you can shop by team. And then lastly, we have a Coach T collection, which is.
- [47:15]
Candy Valentino
Oh, okay. The sayings. Okay, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for this. We will get that linked up everywhere. I'm just so excited to have met you. I'm just so excited for what you're bringing to the world. How you're honoring these women that you're working with and just you wanting to like light your own path and just like plant your stance in the world that you're not just a mom, you're not just a wife, although those two titles are the biggest titles ever. But that you're really a kick ass entrepreneur and I think that it's phenomenal. And if there's anything I can ever do to help you just within your business, you have a free pass to reach out anytime. I'm happy to in any way because I think what you're doing is really remarkable.
- [47:55]
Kia Tomlin
Oh, thank you, thank you. And thank you for helping me and you know, all of us other number challenged people with your, your book. It was, it's brilliant.
- [48:06]
Candy Valentino
Thanks again, Kia. Thanks so much.
- [48:08]
Kia Tomlin
Thank you.
- [48:11]
Range Rover Ad
Hey guys, thanks for tuning in to this episode.
- [48:14]
Candy Valentino
And if there was something that you loved or you had a specific takeaway, share it and tag me at Candy Valentino.
- [48:21]
Range Rover Ad
And if you haven't already, grab a copy of my latest book, the 9% Edge Life Changing Secrets to create more revenue for your business and more freedom for yourself.
- [48:31]
Candy Valentino
You can pick it up anywhere books.
- [48:33]
Range Rover Ad
Are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, or your local independent store. And once you do, head over to 9% edge.com and claim $1,500 in pre order bonuses, including a chance to join me on this very show. Thanks so much for tuning in and spending this time with me today, guys. We'll see you next time.
- [48:57]
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- [49:05]
Kia Tomlin
How would a person buy their time?
- [49:07]
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- [49:20]
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- [49:23]
Kia Tomlin
Afford anything. Wherever you listen.