The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast

Episode 753 | Why White Christian Men Are Afraid to Preach the Bible—Therapy, Calling, and Comedy with Julian Lowe

Release Date: September 9, 2025
Host: Carey Nieuwhof
Guest: Julian Lowe, Lead Pastor, Oasis Church LA

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth, candid conversation between Carey Nieuwhof and Julian Lowe, lead pastor of Oasis Church in Los Angeles. The pair discuss why white Christian men are often afraid to preach the Bible in today’s polarized climate, how comedy and improv influence preaching, the soul-crushing side of the music industry, the pain and promise of calling, the role of therapy in pastoral transitions, racial tension in the church, and practical advice for handling criticism and preaching difficult truths. Julian shares vulnerable stories about his journey through music, comedy, and ministry, reflections on identity, and the surprising value of humor, therapy, and authentic community in leadership.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Julian’s Creative Roots and the Power of Comedy

• Music Industry and Improv Training ([05:02]-[08:13])

  • Julian details his background as a songwriter and improv comedy student at The Groundlings, LA’s premier comedy school.
  • He describes creativity as “the solution to problems” and credits improv with teaching him to think quickly on his feet—an asset in both music and preaching.
  • Julian: “Creativity is the solution to problems. Those who are not creative are going to have a harder time solving problems." ([05:10])

• Comedy Lessons for Pastors ([08:13]-[14:11])

  • Explains comedy techniques: contrast, misdirect, exaggeration, and being a keen observer.
  • Illustrates with self-deprecating and observational jokes about church life and cultural differences.
  • Emphasizes the healing power of laughter and bringing the full range of human emotion into sermons: “When the whole room is laughing, it’s almost impossible for anyone to be offended... laughter is one of the most healing things you could imagine.” ([14:51])

2. Authenticity, Identity & the Danger of Monetizing Dreams

• From Pursuing Music to Pursuing Meaning ([21:18]-[27:53])

  • Julian reflects on how monetizing his music dream killed his soul and how the church ‘healed him’ from the trappings of the industry.
  • He shares his desire “to matter” was at the core of his ambition, not the music itself:

    “I would have said my dream was music. But… my real dream was to matter. And I thought being famous and known for my creativity would mean that I mattered.” ([22:51])

• Chasing Validation and Coping When ‘the Mist Fades’

  • Candidly admits the validation of proximity to fame (e.g., texting Super Bowl headliners, posting about celebrity friends) is addictive and fleeting.
  • Uses metaphor: “It’s like a mist that fades. It feels so good to be in the mist... I was somebody for a few years and a nobody for more years than that...there’s no pain to describe when the phone calls stop.” ([31:48])

• The Importance of Reflection Over Projection ([32:54]-[34:38])

  • Advocates for regular reflection, not just visionary, forward planning:

    “Your average leader is driven today by something they want to happen tomorrow…I spend more time reflecting about yesterday than projecting about tomorrow.” ([32:54])

3. Calling, Surprises, & the Weight of Leadership

• Transitioning into Lead Pastor ([34:38]-[40:26])

  • Became lead pastor at Oasis through serving, not ambition—unexpected, not his original dream. Feels this makes him healthier, less threatened:

    “When you leave the church...you’re not hurting my dream. My identity is not wrapped up into it.” ([35:09])

  • Humorously names puppet characters from his kids’ pastor days: “Reverend Billy Graham Cracker,” “TD Milkshakes,” “Tito Testimony.” ([37:57])

• Biggest Surprises:

  • The Weight of Leadership: “There’s nothing to prepare you for the weight.” ([40:31])
  • The Power of Preaching the Bible: “I’m really surprised about how many young people...just want to hear God's word unpacked.” ([41:14])

• Healthy Rhythms over Sabbaticals ([42:37]-[45:19])

  • Stresses integrating rest, hobbies, and self-care as work priorities.

    “When I’m golfing, I’m at work. Because it’s my job to do things that care for my soul.” ([44:11])

  • Advocates for building healthy, sustainable staff and personal rhythms (unlimited time off, flexible schedules).

4. Staff Culture & Accountability

• Believes a healthy team allows room for accountability, including confronting underperformance, especially as organizations scale:

  “If everyone is abusing or taking, your culture isn’t healthy…there should be enough freedom that someone could be dropping the ball, if they are.” ([47:07])

5. The Role of Therapy in Church Leadership Transitions

• Joint Therapy with Predecessors ([48:51]-[50:23])

  • Julian, Philip, and Holly Wagner (preceding pastors) processed their transition in therapy together, sharing vulnerably:

    “He invited me to his therapy sessions…We processed emotionally his transition and me coming into the new role in front of a trained professional...It gave me specific insight on how him and Holly were feeling in that moment. It was life-changing.” ([49:05])

• Empowering the Successor

  • Julian was already leading and preaching before formally becoming lead pastor, making the transition seamless for the congregation. ([50:23]-[51:09])

6. Preaching, Politics, & Racial Tension

• Why White Christian Men Are Afraid to Preach the Bible ([58:11]-[61:53])

  • Julian argues that cultural forces have made white Christian men hesitant to preach controversial biblical truths.

  • As a black pastor, he says, “I think I can say things other people feel like they can’t say.” ([00:02], [58:11])

  • “There was a real strong effort in media and culture to make specifically white Christian men afraid to preach the Bible...one of my biggest advantages is that I'm black.” ([00:02], [58:11])

  • Challenges both conservative and liberal approaches, advocating for equal-opportunity critique and biblical fidelity, not partisan loyalty:

    “Both political parties have areas of the Bible they're not following...If I'm open to both sides, [people] know I'm actually talking about the Bible.” ([54:21])

• On 2020, Race, and Bridging Division ([61:53]-[66:48])

  • Julian describes his own anger and confusion during the racial tension of 2020—and how looking to MLK, and experiencing diverse church leadership, helped him reorient towards unity:

    “Martin Luther King's attempt to bring about equality was not because inequality angered him...it was because his eyes had seen the coming glory of the Lord…He was trying to make God’s people look the way God wanted them to look..." ([62:18])

• The Rise of ‘Thoughtism’

  • Julian coins a term for the new social division:

    “Racism is being replaced by what I would call 'thoughtism'...We're validating hatred towards anyone who views something differently. ‘Thoughtism’ will be the new racism inside the next 20 years.” ([66:48])

7. Practical Advice for Preaching Difficult Truths

• Lead to the Truth, Don’t Just Tell It ([67:22]-[72:36])

  • Advises against politicizing sermons; instead, build a bridge, context, and community compassion over months or years.

    “The church is being truth tellers, not truth leaders…If you know your church is liberal, come up with a plan. I’ve been talking about children for three years…now I’m building a case…” ([70:29])

• Reframing Contentious Issues

  • When discussing abortion, he framed it as a justice and compassion issue, rooted in the value of children, not politics, and led the church in prayer for single mothers and their children. ([69:04]-[70:21])

8. On Satisfaction, Growth, and Belonging

• Learning that Jesus Satisfies ([72:36]-[73:44])

  • “I think 10 years ago, I believed in a God that saves, but did not satisfy...Now…I'm really on this journey to understand that Jesus both saves and satisfies.” ([72:42])

• On Not Fitting in and the Power of Spiritual Family ([75:33]-[81:24])

  • At one point felt caught between worlds: “I wasn’t liberal enough for the liberals. I wasn’t conservative enough for the conservatives. I wasn’t black enough for the black people, surely wasn't white enough for the white people.” ([75:39])
  • Healing came through being spiritually fathered by leaders of other races:

    “…the diversity of the people who loved me freed me from that.” ([81:24])

• Advice for Afraid Preachers

  • “You can only be canceled if you are afraid of being canceled…I know my wife won't cancel me, my kids won't, the people that really know me won’t, and Jesus won’t…” ([76:12])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Humor in Preaching:
  "It is the range of emotion in a human when they're listening to you that really creates impartation…If someone's only angry, if someone's only convicted, if someone's only laughing...the best sermons do all." — Julian Lowe ([14:51])

• On True Calling:
  “What most people don't know about the music industry is that the attempt to monetize a dream is super taxing on the soul... The church healed me from the music business.” — Julian Lowe ([21:18])

• On ‘Thoughtism’:
  “Racism is being replaced by what I would call 'thoughtism.' I don't have permission to hate you for the color of your skin, but I do have permission to hate you for the way you think.” — Julian Lowe ([66:48])

• On Handling Criticism and Fear:
  “You can only be canceled if you are afraid of being canceled...I know Jesus won't [cancel me].” — Julian Lowe ([76:12])

• On Therapy in Pastoral Transition:
  “We processed emotionally his transition and me coming into the new role in front of a trained professional…It prepared me emotionally to be able to take the role.” — Julian Lowe ([49:42])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:02 — Opening: Why white Christian men are afraid to preach the Bible; Julian's cultural advantage as a black pastor
• 05:02-08:13 — Julian’s creative roots: music, improv, and their contribution to preaching
• 08:13-14:11 — Comedy principles, observational leadership, and building humor into sermons
• 21:18-27:53 — The soul-killing side of the music industry and chasing validation
• 32:54-34:38 — Reflection vs. Projection: How reflection brings clarity
• 35:09-37:57 — Unexpected calling, loss and joy, and the real cost of leadership
• 48:51-50:23 — The importance and impact of therapy and emotional preparation in church transition
• 53:11-57:39 — The politicization of scripture and equal-opportunity biblical critique
• 58:11-61:53 — Media, fear, preaching, and Julian’s cultural vantage point
• 61:53-66:48 — Wrestling with racial tension and the hope of spiritual unity
• 66:48-72:36 — ‘Thoughtism’, advice for afraid preachers, and building an atmosphere conducive to truth
• 72:42-73:44 — Learning Jesus satisfies; moving beyond striving
• 75:33-81:24 — Loneliness, belonging, being fathered across racial lines
• 81:24-end — Julian’s social links and closing gratitude

Further Resources

• Find Julian Lowe: @julianlowe on Instagram
• Oasis LA: oasisla.org
• Show notes and more: careynieuwhof.com

For listeners wishing for more on leadership, transition, and truth-telling in polarized times, this episode offers candid, vulnerable, and practical wisdom steeped in real ministry experience.