The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast – Episode 769
"How AI Is Damaging Your Mind and Brain: Dr. Caroline Leaf on How to Battle Stress, Burnout, and Anxiety"
Date: November 25, 2025
Guest: Dr. Caroline Leaf (clinical and research neuroscientist, mind management expert)
Host: Carey Nieuwhof
Produced by: Art of Leadership Network
Episode Overview
This episode features Dr. Caroline Leaf—renowned neuroscientist, author, and mind management expert—diving deep into the rising crises of burnout, stress, and anxiety among leaders, particularly in the context of churches and businesses. Dr. Leaf introduces her scientific research and practical strategies for “mind management,” addresses why modern stressors are proliferating, and discusses the cognitive risks of misusing technology and AI. The conversation is practical, candid, and loaded with research-based insights for leaders feeling overwhelmed in a hyperconnected world.
Key Discussions & Insights
1. The Real Source of Burnout and Anxiety: Mind Management Deficit
Timestamps: 06:36–21:44
- Core Thesis: Burnout, stress, and anxiety are not isolated epidemics; these are signals symptomatic of a deeper “mind management” deficit.
- Dr. Leaf’s Model: Differentiates between the mind (the “99%” of who we are—thought, intuition, wisdom) and the brain/body (the “1%” that processes and stores). Modern culture collapses these, leading to shallow treatment approaches.
- Critique of the Biomedical Model: The prevalent biomedical/disease model wrongly treats mental experiences as brain malfunctions requiring diagnosis and medication. This model is unhelpful for “the issues of being human.”
“For 2,000 years, we've been talking about mind, brain, and body as being separate. It’s only in the last 50 years or so... that those concepts were collapsed to mean the same thing.”
– Dr. Leaf (08:38) - Individual Complexities: “If we listened to ten people diagnosed with depression, we’d have ten incredibly complex stories. They don’t have depression as an illness—they’re experiencing depression as a response to what they’re living through.”
– Dr. Leaf (09:41)
- Cultural Failure: Modern society’s avoidance of mind processing creates “stuckness,” where overwhelming experiences aren’t processed, and hope or agency is undermined.
2. Understanding the Mind: The 99% Driving the 1%
Timestamps: 11:33–21:44
- Definitions: Mind = ancient human faculty (“spirit and soul, if you want to use those terms”) that thinks, chooses, feels, reasons, empathizes, and manages the body.
- Levels of Mind:
- Conscious Mind: Like a toddler—hungry to learn, beautiful but messy, needs guidance.
- Nonconscious (Non-Subconscious): Deep well of wisdom, logic, intuition, creativity. It’s where real change and guidance come from.
- Metacognition: Our ability to observe ourselves, step back, and connect with that deeper “parent” wisdom.
“We are wired for love and not listening to our deep level of nonconscious spiritual level... creates stuckness, inflammation, and keeps us trapped.”
– Dr. Leaf (18:40) - Practical Impact: Leaders who function only at the conscious, reactive level burn out. Mind management—learning to observe, reflect, and guide oneself—is crucial.
3. Why Burnout is Spiking Now
Timestamps: 22:53–27:53
- Carey’s Questions: Why is leadership stress worse now; is it really “worse” than decades past?
- Dr. Leaf’s View: The modern world, especially with technological and information overload, exposes us to relentless external pressures—many of which we fail to filter due to poor mind management.
“People are literally... in a world environment where one thing comes after another... with all these technologies, there’s an overload. And we’re not analysing why something affects us; we’re not standing back and saying, ‘Why am I letting this get to me?’”
– Dr. Leaf (25:18) - Productivity Tools Can Backfire: Many “productivity hacks” (task apps, communication tools) make life harder—adding steps, complexity, and digital ‘noise’ rather than helping.
4. Practical Tools for Mind Management: The Neurocycle
Timestamps: 27:53–45:08
A. 63 Seconds to Mindful Intervention
- Science: Neurological wiring shows you can train yourself to “catch a spiral” every 60–63 seconds before it becomes ingrained in your brain/body.
“Within the minute framework, we’re able to stand back and observe our own thinking. We are able to capture thought and renew our mind. This is the science of 63 seconds.” – Dr. Leaf (27:53)
B. 5-Step ‘Neurocycle’ Formula
- Step 1 – Gather Awareness:
- Ask four questions (in the moment):
- How am I feeling emotionally? (e.g., frustrated)
- Where am I feeling this in my body? (e.g., tension in my neck)
- How is this affecting what I’m about to do/say? (e.g., about to send a snarky message)
- What is my immediate perspective? (e.g., “This always happens”)
- Metacognitive ‘parental’ state activated.
- Ask four questions (in the moment):
- Step 2 – Reflect:
- Why am I reacting this way? What’s really behind this feeling/thought?
- Step 3 – Write/“Mindstorm”:
- Jot down words or ideas that surface, often revealing patterns.
- Step 4 – Reconceptualize (“Recheck”):
- What else is true, what alternative actions are available? How else could you view/handle this?
- Step 5 – Active Reach:
- Take a practical, calming or alternative action.
“That same 5-step process is how you manage the moment, but also how you rewire, over 63 days, if it’s a habit. Not 21 days. 63 days.”
– Dr. Leaf (44:41)
C. Personal Practice
- Dr. Leaf’s Example: Handling a last-minute team error before a major presentation—using the Neurocycle to down-regulate emotional intensity, problem-solve, and avoid escalating tension. (38:04–44:39)
- Habit Formation: It takes 63 days to unlearn or rewire a habit; mind management is a daily, lifelong practice.
5. Technology & AI: Outsourcing Your Mind’s Dangers
Timestamps: 45:09–53:10
- Increasing Cognitive Risks:
- AI is Not (Yet) Human Intelligence: It’s algorithmic; your mind is infinitely more complex.
“AI is not even close to our human intelligence. If we use AI incorrectly, we dumb ourselves down. That’s in a nutshell.”
– Dr. Leaf (49:51)- MRI Evidence: Overreliance on AI reduces brain neural activity, leading to “mental obesity,” and even toxic changes in the brain/body (referencing MIT/Stanford studies).
- Right and Wrong Use:
- Wrong: Delegating all cognitive work to AI—having it write your emails, blogs, or books without engaging deeply, reviewing, reflecting, or bringing your own evaluation.
- Right: Using AI for time-saving, initial drafting, or data gathering—but always reviewing thoroughly, asking yourself questions, circling ideas, discussing with yourself, and using generated work as stimulation, not a substitute for thought.
“The worst thing you could do... is to use [AI] to delegate your brain and your mind. (52:09) ... It will create a stuck mind. And that stress response will lead to burnout.”
Notable Quotes
- On Mind vs. Brain:
“Your mind is your spirit... this ability to think, feel, choose, love, appreciate, be sad, be happy... Our mind has this eternal value. It’s big—drives the brain. The brain and body are used by the mind.”
– Dr. Leaf (11:33) - On Modern Burnout:
“People don’t have a stress epidemic. They have a mind management epidemic that leads to stress and burnout.”
– Dr. Leaf (07:02) - On Technology Overload:
“There are all these great software programs... Now what was one task has become 26 steps...”
– Dr. Leaf (27:01) - On 63-Second Intervention:
“Within the minute framework, we are able to stand back and observe our own thinking... This is the science of 63 seconds.”
– Dr. Leaf (27:53) - On AI and Mind Decline:
“If we use AI incorrectly, we dumb ourselves down.”
– Dr. Leaf (49:51) “The worst thing you could do... is to use [AI] to delegate your brain and your mind. It will create a stuck mind. And that stress response will lead to burnout.”
– Dr. Leaf (52:09)
Important Timestamps
- [06:33] – Start of Dr. Leaf’s interview & foundations of mind management
- [11:33] – Distinction of mind, brain, conscious/nonconscious/spirit
- [24:35] – Why stress and burnout are spiking now
- [27:53] – How to intervene: 63 seconds and the Neurocycle
- [32:49] – Four core metacognitive questions (Neurocycle Step 1)
- [38:04] – Practical example: applying the Neurocycle in real life
- [44:41] – How to build new mental habits (the 63-day process)
- [45:08] – Transition to AI risks, technology, and mental management
- [49:51] – “If we use AI incorrectly, we dumb ourselves down.”
- [52:09] – Right vs. wrong use of AI
Resources Referenced & Further Learning
- Dr. Leaf’s Books:
- Help in a Hurry – for in-the-moment mind management
- Cleaning Up Your Mental Mess – on habit formation and the 63-day Neurocycle
- Neurocycle App: Guided mind management tool for individuals
- Help in a Hurry Course: Video-based deep dive into the Neurocycle and rapid interventions
Recommended Actions for Listeners
- Recognize: Stress and burnout are signals of deeper mind management needs.
- Practice: Use Dr. Leaf’s 5-step Neurocycle—including the 4 self-check questions—to manage difficult emotions or moments, beginning with just 60 seconds.
- Be Cautious with Tech: Use AI and tech to stimulate thought, not replace your own; never stop filtering, analyzing, and engaging deeply.
- Develop Habits: For persistent stress patterns or trauma, practice the 63-day Neurocycle, journaling and guiding thought patterns daily.
- Reclaim Agency: Remember, we are wired to process, reflect, and guide ourselves through life’s complexity—don’t surrender your mind to quick fixes or automation.
Episode Tone
Candid, highly practical, supportive, and deeply scientific—Dr. Leaf balances decades of neuroscience research with relatable, real-world strategies for leaders and anyone feeling overwhelmed by today’s pace and demands.
Learn More
- Dr. Caroline Leaf: drleaf.com
- Neurocycle App: Available on iOS, Google Play, Web
- Courses: "Help in a Hurry" & additional resources at Dr. Leaf’s website
- Carey Nieuwhof Podcast & Resources: careynieuwhof.com
This summary omits advertisements and non-content segments. For further links and content context, visit the show notes at careynieuwhof.com or the Art of Leadership Academy.