Podcast Summary: The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast

Episode CNLP 770 | Social Outrage: J.D. Greear On Charlie Kirk, When to Speak Out, and Culture Wars

Date: December 2, 2025
Host: Carey Nieuwhof (Art of Leadership Network)
Guest: J.D. Greear (Pastor, The Summit Church, Raleigh-Durham, NC; Author, "Everyday Revolutionary")

Episode Overview

In this compelling and timely episode, Carey Nieuwhof sits down with J.D. Greear to discuss the complex realities facing Christian leaders amid culture wars and rising social outrage. They tackle questions like when and how church leaders should speak out on volatile cultural issues, the dynamics of losing church members over divisive events, the impact of algorithms on discipleship, and how to maintain gospel fidelity in a hyper-politicized age. The assassination of Charlie Kirk serves as a case study throughout the conversation, prompting reflections on grief, pastoral leadership, and the temptation to be co-opted by partisan narratives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Navigating the Culture Wars: When and How Should Leaders Speak Out?

• The Dilemma: Leaders are unsure what to say, how to say it, and when silence or action is warranted. The pressures are intense, particularly following high-profile, polarizing events.
• J.D.'s Criteria for Speaking Out:
  • Direct vs. Dotted Lines: Some issues have a clear, "thus says the Lord" biblical stance (direct lines), while others require wisdom and application subject to Christian disagreement (dotted lines).
  • Quote: “If God says it, regardless of its popularity or even its political ramifications, we have to preach it… I want to be very careful ever attaching the authority of God or the reputation of the church to something that’s not actually written in the Bible.” — J.D. Greear (05:14)

2. The Impact of Social Media and the Algorithm on Discipleship

• Discipling by Algorithm: The congregation isn't just hearing a sermon once a week; they're being formed daily by their social feeds, each customized to reinforce existing beliefs — often to the extremes.
• Quote: “We get discipled out of the Bible for one hour a week, and we get discipled by cable news and talk shows for 30 hours a week… maybe we end up reflecting the world more than we challenge it.” — J.D. Greear (07:54)
• Lightbulb Moment: Carey recognizes the uniqueness of each person’s digital reality: “There are 10,000 different Instagrams, TikToks, social media feeds there. … Of course, you're not going to be able to please everybody.” (11:00)

3. Pastoral Response to Tragedy: The Charlie Kirk Assassination [07:25–16:00]

• Shared Experience: Leaders faced a no-win scenario: speak too forcefully and some leave, speak too gently and others leave. The sense of outrage and fear was palpable.
• J.D.'s Approach: Meet people where they are, mourn with those who mourn, avoid pontificating or assigning blame in the immediate aftermath.
  • “I named him and called it an assassination… this was an unmitigated, without caveat, tragedy.” — J.D. Greear (15:22)
  • “I would not have felt as honoring to our people or to them to just say the events of this week, you know, kind of lump them all together.” (15:44)
• Facilitating Grief and Dialogue: Encourage small groups to process together, not just from the pulpit or online: “It’s a group of people who are meeting together, who love and trust each other, that can say, 'Well, this is why I feel the way I feel.' That’s how the church is supposed to work, not as a social media war.” — J.D. Greear (13:23)

4. Internal Pressures, Listening, and Preaching Decisions [20:00–24:00]

• Pressure Points: Pastoral leaders experience deep anxiety in responding to fast-moving events. J.D. emphasizes deep listening to multiple perspectives, especially in moments of national trauma (“Do an extra amount of listening that week” — 21:25).
• Sermon Preparation: J.D. seeks diverse feedback by sending his sermon to a cross-section of readers (counseling, female, ethnically diverse perspectives) before preaching (21:32).

5. Balancing Regular Preaching and Responding to Cultural Moments [22:35–29:30]

• Three Categories for Addressing Issues:
  1. What the congregation is feeling and needs to hear about
  2. What the pastor is personally passionate about
  3. What the pastor thinks people should care about (the “hobby horse” trap)
• Wisdom from Martyn Lloyd-Jones: If preachers don't address what everyone is wrestling with, they “appear tone-deaf.” (24:05)

6. Politics in the Pulpit: How Far is Too Far?

• No Partisan Churches: J.D. argues the church should never become “the Democrat church or the Republican church.”
• Quote: “I’m very zealous about our pulpit to be a place where people can depend on that being 'thus says the Lord' and not 'thus thinketh J.D.'” — J.D. Greear (31:04)
• Romans 14 & Acts 15: In matters that are heavily culturally charged, but not essential to the gospel, Paul and early church leaders practiced remarkable restraint for the sake of unity (33:39–35:46).

7. Maintaining Gospel Fidelity, Avoiding Culture War Distractions

• Gospel Primary, Politics Secondary: Social change is the fruit of gospel transformation, not its substitute.
• The Kuyper Distinction: The church as organism (believers in the world) should embody gospel values everywhere, but the church as organization (from the pulpit/staff) has a narrower calling and must exercise restraint (57:21).
• Quote: “You shouldn't try to make your church the Democrat church or the Republican church… Those things are the result of discipleship. They shouldn't be the prerequisite for or the barrier to discipleship.” — J.D. Greear (38:08)

8. Gen Z, the Revival Moment, & the Fork in the Road [46:00–50:30]

• Renewed Spiritual Hunger: Both see a Gen Z resurgence in church attendance not as a political wave, but as a search for meaning amidst cultural collapse (“They went from despair to desperation” — 48:22).
• Turning Point: Will the church leverage this for the sake of the gospel, or simply as a political voting bloc?
• Quote: “What we see in the New Testament is that the gospel preaching is primary and the social transformation is what follows. When you put those in the opposite order… it becomes a different thing.” (50:06)

9. Identity, Tribalism, and Church Growth Temptations

• The Audience Trap: Churches can grow faster by playing to tribes, but at the expense of gospel unity.
• Quote: “The irony is… it won't increase your audience, it will decrease your audience.” (64:11)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• “Culture wars are nothing new… history and baptisms are always on the side of Billy Graham: people that are gospel forward and mission forward.” — J.D. Greear (45:36)
• “Jesus’ crucifixion was a joint project of the secular left and the religious right... If you’re not taking stuff from both sides, you’re probably not doing it right.” — J.D. Greear (66:30)
• “Grace without truth is liberalism. Truth without grace is Christless conservatism. Neither one of those is the gospel. Jesus was filled with both.” — J.D. Greear (41:41)
• “If it’s hard, perhaps you’re doing it right.” — Carey Nieuwhof (66:02)

Key Principles & Practices for Leaders

From J.D.’s Book and the Conversation [59:57–63:03]:

• Live quietly (1 Thess. 4:11): Let your life create contrast with culture—lead with integrity, humility, and hope.
• Pursue excellence: “Paul says, whatever you do, do it as an offering to God.” (61:19)
• Reflect holiness: Personal conduct is as vital as public stance.
• Display redemption: Let grace overflow into professional and personal actions.
• Advance the mission: Use every opportunity to witness to Christ, not merely promote an agenda.

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | | --------- | ----------- | | 03:52 | Deciding when to speak on issues | | 07:25 | Social outrage & church division after Charlie Kirk | | 11:00 | The role of individualized algorithms in forming belief | | 15:22 | J.D. on naming and mourning public tragedy | | 20:09 | The internal process for leaders in times of crisis | | 21:32 | How J.D. gets diverse feedback for sermons | | 24:06 | Tone-deafness and preaching in cultural moments | | 31:04 | Dotted line vs. direct line issues—pulpit boundaries | | 41:19 | Grace and truth, gospel priorities | | 46:12 | Gen Z and the opportunity for gospel resurgence | | 50:24 | Social gospel vs. gospel mission—New Testament priorities | | 57:21 | Kuyper’s church as organism vs. organization | | 63:25 | Identity, tribalism, and the cost of faithfulness | | 66:30 | Jesus’ crucifixion & lessons for leaders in culture wars |

Final Thoughts

Carey’s closing words:
“If it’s hard, perhaps you’re doing it right.” (66:02)

J.D.’s challenge:
Expect criticism from both left and right if you truly center your church on the Gospel:
“If you’re not, then you’re probably not doing it right, you know, because those forces in our world don’t change.” (67:58)

For Listeners

This episode powerfully unpacks the complexities of cultural engagement for church leaders, the role of social media, and the tensions of preaching and pastoral care in divided times. J.D. Greear models humility, biblical fidelity, and wisdom for navigating outrage, all grounded in a gospel-first approach. If you want to lead well through tumult, this conversation is an essential resource.

Learn more about J.D.’s new book, "Everyday Revolutionary: How to Transcend the Culture Wars," and find leadership resources at careynieuwhof.com.