Podcast Summary: The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast
Episode CNLP 778 | Tapping the Brakes on The Talk of Revival: David Kinnaman Nuances What's Happening with Christianity in America + Digital Discipleship
Release Date: January 13, 2026
Guest: David Kinnaman (CEO, Barna Group)
Host: Carey Nieuwhof
Episode Theme Overview
This episode is a data-driven deep dive with David Kinnaman into the evolving landscape of American Christianity. Carey and David discuss church trends for 2026, interrogate the narrative around talk of “revival,” unpack generational and gender-based shifts in faith involvement, and explore the impact of digital discipleship and algorithmic influence on spiritual formation. They candidly discuss challenges facing church leaders, the rise (and exodus) of specific demographics, technology’s role (especially AI), and practical strategies for future-proofing ministry.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Is America in Revival? Nuancing the Narrative
- Headline caution: Despite hopeful stories and increased openness, labeling America as "in revival" is premature. Christian identity has been in steady decline for decades.
- Notable Stat: Christian identity in America dropped from 83% (25 years ago) to 71% (00:09, 02:07).
- Quote:
“It’s still very much a Christianized society but not very Christ-following.”
—David Kinnaman (02:07)
2. Generation Z & Millennials: Surprise Returners
- Attendance reversal: Gen Z churchgoers now attend more frequently (1.9x per month) than boomers (2.1–2.3x per month, 25 years ago)—a cultural reversal (04:10–05:02).
- Gen Z/Millennials: Taking faith and church attendance seriously, “more than any of us would have predicted,” with some signs of renewal (05:36).
- Quote:
“Gen Z and millennials are taking the church more seriously than any of us would have predicted even five years ago…”
—David Kinnaman (05:36)
3. Gender Shifts: Young Men In, Young Women Out
- Men’s attendance rising: For the past 5 years, men have outpaced women in church attendance, especially in 2025 (07:30–08:00).
- Shift among young people: Young men more likely than young women to attend church; young women are increasingly reporting “no faith” (08:37–10:46).
- Women’s disengagement: Steep decline in women’s volunteerism and Bible reading; church is losing its longstanding “backbone” (11:01).
- Quote:
"Volunteerism dropped in half over 25 years among women. They don’t want to be your church’s free labor.”
—David Kinnaman (11:01)
4. Possible Reasons Behind Male Resurgence
- Spiritual search & digital Babylon: Generational reckoning over identity in a tech-dominated (“digital Babylon”) world (15:10–15:37).
- Political trends: Young men more politically conservative, churches may ‘work better’ for them; young women becoming more progressive (17:27).
- The role of community: Men drawn to church partly for a sense of belonging not replicated in digital or social circles (23:36).
- Quote:
“Men don’t have as many of those places to go (for community)... The church offers a kind of community and belonging.”
—David Kinnaman (23:36)
5. The Digital Shift & Discipleship by Algorithm
- Algorithm-driven formation: Most Americans now spend ~49 hours/week on screens vs. 2 hours/month in church; algorithms shape beliefs and polarization (50:36–52:10).
- Tailored digital worlds: No two people in a congregation see the same information—discipleship complexity rises (51:20–52:10).
- Pastors’ pain: No matter what a church leader says, “you can’t win”—the audience is fragmented (48:42–52:10).
- Quote:
“Guess who’s going to win? The algorithm.”
—Carey Nieuwhof (50:40)
6. Church as Learning Community & Digital Innovation
- Beyond Sunday sermons: The learning environment must extend beyond preaching—podcasts, books, and practical orthopraxy are essential (26:22–30:46).
- Women seek experience: For women, experiencing God and community are more important than content (preaching is only reason #6 for attending) (30:32–30:37).
- Direct evangelism: Next-gen evangelists and creators are bypassing institutions, going straight to digital platforms and podcasts (31:45–33:30).
- Quote:
“If your youth ministry is just simply like giving them daily bread, you’re not giving them the regimen to practice their faith.”
—David Kinnaman (33:30)
7. Analog Counter-Trends & Re-enchantment
- Seeking analog connection: Amid digital overwhelm, young people delete apps and crave offline experiences (44:07–44:47).
- Tangible practices: Kinnaman pitches practical analog disciplines like letter-writing as counterpoints to digital dehumanization (47:23).
- Quote:
“The church can be a place of re-enchantment, of belonging, of human expression…”
—David Kinnaman (47:24)
8. Succession, Leadership, and the Next Generation
- Clergy pipeline issues: The average age of pastors rises (now ~58+); lack of younger leaders due to career choices and insufficient leadership development (70:30–71:48).
- Lack of leadership development: Only 1 in 20 churches think they’re doing a good job at developing leaders (75:24).
- Quote:
“This is going to be the silent killer of the church.”
—David Kinnaman, on weak leadership pipelines (76:16)
9. Artificial Intelligence & the Next Discipleship Frontier
- AI challenges: AI will intensify identity, truth, and therapy questions; blurring reality and making algorithmic discipleship stronger (83:48).
- Hopeful caution: Both hosts see opportunity for “AI for good,” but warn of the need for strong theological frameworks and discernment.
- Quote:
“Discipleship according to the chat-GPT Jesus… a powerful tool, but it can be a little off… where’s your source material?”
—David Kinnaman (83:49)
10. Good News Amidst Complexity
- Statistical optimism: 66% of Americans say they’ve made a commitment to Jesus, up from 54% four years ago—about 30 million more people (88:18).
- Gen Z’s unique posture: 48% of Gen Z say “I’m open to Jesus but don’t consider myself Christian”—sign of spiritual opportunity (39:18, 89:01).
- “Advance, not retreat”: Despite challenges, now is the time for renewed ministry, innovation, and bold leadership (89:55).
- Quote:
“This is an opportunity not for a retreat, but for an advance.”
—Carey Nieuwhof (89:55)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-------| | 02:07 | David Kinnaman | “It’s still very much a Christianized society but not very Christ-following.” | | 05:36 | David Kinnaman | “Gen Z and millennials are taking the church more seriously than any of us would have predicted even five years ago…” | | 11:01 | David Kinnaman | "Volunteerism dropped in half over 25 years among women. They don’t want to be your church’s free labor.” | | 23:36 | David Kinnaman | “Men don’t have as many of those places to go... The church offers a kind of community and belonging.” | | 26:22 | David Kinnaman | “The church needs to be a learning community under the authority of scripture to be on mission with Jesus.” | | 33:30 | David Kinnaman | “If your youth ministry is just simply like giving them daily bread, you’re not giving them the regimen to practice their faith.” | | 50:40 | Carey Nieuwhof | “Guess who’s going to win? The algorithm.” | | 76:16 | David Kinnaman | “This [lack of leadership development] is going to be the silent killer of the church.” | | 83:49 | David Kinnaman | “Discipleship according to the chat-GPT Jesus… a powerful tool, but it can be a little off… where’s your source material?” | | 89:55 | Carey Nieuwhof | “This is an opportunity not for a retreat, but for an advance.” |
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Opening context and stats: 00:09–02:07
- Gen Z and generational shift: 04:10–06:03
- Gender divide and women’s disengagement: 07:30–12:22
- Digital Babylon and algorithmic discipleship: 50:36–52:10
- Church as learning community: 26:22–30:46
- Analog practices & re-enchantment: 47:23–48:42
- AI and future challenges: 81:38–89:01
- Optimistic closing: 89:01–92:56
Final Takeaways for Church Leaders
- Nuance, Not Narrative: Avoid oversimplifying the “revival” talk. There’s good news, but we’re in a complicated, multifaceted environment.
- Celebrate and Engage the Young: Gen Z and Millennial male spiritual curiosity is rising—seize the moment with robust, learning-oriented, and authentic community.
- Digital Formation Demands Countermeasures: Recognize and proactively address “discipleship by algorithm.” Church must become more than Sunday preaching.
- Innovate, Don’t Isolate: Move ministry beyond the pulpit—invest in direct digital outreach, explore analog connection, and prioritize leadership pipelines.
- AI is Here—Be Ready: Prepare for theological, ethical, and social changes that AI will accelerate. Engage, steward, and educate, rather than retreat.
- Advance, Don’t Retreat: Lean into opportunities—current trends signal potential for renewal and growth if church leaders adapt with wisdom and courage.
Resources & Further Reading
Summary compiled to reflect the original tone, candor, and data-rich insights of the conversation. Designed for pastors, leadership teams, and anyone invested in the faith and future of the American church.