The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast

Episode 781 | John Mark Comer Goes to the Desert, Clarifies Where He Stands, and Deep Dives on a Major Challenge for Modern Discipleship
Recorded: January 27, 2026
Host: Carey Nieuwhof
Guest: John Mark Comer

Episode Overview

In this deep and candid conversation, Carey Nieuwhof sits down with author and spiritual formation teacher John Mark Comer at Comer’s home outside Malibu, California. They discuss John Mark's 21-day desert retreat, his shifting perspectives on discipleship and noise, and the urgent need for deep spiritual quiet in today’s leadership and church culture. Comer shares personal stories of burnout, spiritual discipline, and the lessons he’s learned from ancient Christian practices, offering practical guidance for modern Christian leaders and seekers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. John Mark Comer's "Drift Backward" and Rootedness in Tradition

• Comer sets the record straight: he hasn’t drifted politically left or right, but rather is sinking deeper into church history and ancient orthodoxy (00:01; 43:12).

  “I am deeply rooted in the orthodox teachings of the church and deeply rooted in scripture. I have been drifting, though, I realize...back into church history.” – John Mark Comer (00:01)

• He describes immersing himself in writings from church fathers, medieval mystics, and the desert mothers and fathers, which has reshaped his faith and leadership.

2. The Overwhelming Noise of Modern Life

• John Mark reflects on noise—not only digital/informational but also literal, environmental noise that activates the body's fight-or-flight response.

  “Our bodies...interpret any sound over a certain decibel range as a threat...your body is just hearing danger, danger, danger. And so it puts your body into fight or flight.” – John Mark Comer (02:11)

• He reveals how chronic noise impairs spiritual growth, relational love, and fuels anxiety.

3. The 21-Day Desert Retreat: Radical Solitude

• Comer recounts his sabbatical: a 21-day retreat without devices, books (except possibly the Bible), or most activities in a remote, rainy cabin (05:54–11:04).

  “The desert teaches by taking away.” – John Mark Comer, quoting retreat leader “Gandalf” (25:35)

• The process stripped away every distraction—including positive ones like reading and exercise—to force confrontation with his own soul and motivations.
• Unexpectedly, even as an introvert and spiritual discipline “expert,” he found it one of the most brutally difficult experiences of his life.

Key Moments from the Retreat

• Forced to face suppressed emotions, regrets, and motivations with no escape.
• Realization that much of his prior “solitude” was still indirect distraction up until this retreat (13:06–15:43).

  “I would go into solitude with a bag of props. I would read...bring my calendar, my laptop...I realized that’s not solitude. That’s alone time for an introvert to do creative work.” – John Mark Comer (15:00)

• Profound insights about true solitude as “the absence of any other inputs” (14:02).

4. Addiction to Stimulation & Activity

• Comer describes the neurophysiological withdrawal of going without stimulation—compared to a detox, but from information and activity (20:08).

  “There is like a stimulation detox that you have to go through. And the withdrawal is painful.” – John Mark Comer (20:08)

• He discusses how pastors and leaders often overwork for the wrong reasons: people-pleasing, moralism, or a drive to “do good,” sometimes at the expense of their families and souls (26:24–32:22).

Notable Reflection

“I wish I had not worked so hard... realizing the wounding it caused to my family.” – John Mark Comer (26:24)

5. The Role of Regret and Ongoing Healing

• Comer confronts lifelong patterns—overworking, addictive drive to opportunity, and the pain this causes those close to him.
• Therapy and solitude led him to focus on incremental healing rather than a “healed” endpoint.

  “I never use the word 'healed'...I like to talk about 'healing.' I’m not healed, but I’m healing.”– John Mark Comer (34:45)

6. Distraction, Prayer, and Spiritual Formation

• Both Carey and John Mark discuss the challenges of distracted (or "monkey mind") prayer—drawing on Henri Nouwen and ancient monks (37:32–39:03).

  “We all believe the lie that it’s just my brain that is a chaotic mess.” – John Mark Comer (37:32)

• Ancient spiritual guides (Desert Fathers/Mothers) were obsessed with distraction long before smartphones, seeing both demonic and psychological causes (47:10).
• Quieter prayer and contemplative practices are a necessary countercultural antidote for today’s noise-saturated world.

  “If you’re praying and your mind is distracted 10,000 times, that’s 10,000 chances to return to God.” – John Mark Comer, quoting Thomas Keating (51:51)

7. Spiritual Progress: The Real Metric

• Carey shares how spiritual “progress” might feel elusive, especially when prayer is dry or distracted, but the true measure is the transformation visible to those closest to us (54:59).

  “I think if there is a metric, it is as simple as: do the people who know me best see me slowly, incrementally growing?” – John Mark Comer (54:59)

• True prayer and spiritual disciplines bear their fruit most authentically in the slow transformation of character, not in rapturous experiences.

8. Living With Limits, Accepting Quiet

• Both speakers reflect on how modern church and leadership cultures reward restlessness, activity, and noise, yet ancient wisdom points to quiet, hiddenness, patience, and limits as the path to lasting fruit (35:13–35:19; 91:22).

  “Don't be afraid of the quiet. Fear keeps us from the quiet, which keeps us from facing who we truly are, which keeps us from finding who we are called to be...” – John Mark Comer (89:33)

Memorable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Christ is the prince of peace...not just another Christian virtue, it’s a prerequisite to becoming a person of love.” – John Mark Comer (04:43)
• “The things you have been running away from all catch up to you [in solitude]...there is no distraction, nothing to mediate you from your pain.” – John Mark Comer (12:22)
• “Introverts have no higher enjoyment of or preference for solitude than extroverts...the difference is absence of distraction.” – John Mark Comer (13:54)
• “The desert teaches by taking away.” – John Mark Comer (25:35)
• “It’s a profound gift. You meet God’s love at the same place you meet your vulnerability.” – John Mark Comer (25:45)
• “If you do 10% of the things that are in your heart, that’d be a really good life.” – Mentor to John Mark Comer (32:22)

Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:01–02:11: Comer’s positioning; noise and its spiritual danger
• 05:54–11:04: The rules and experience of the desert retreat
• 13:06–16:21: Solitude vs. aloneness and ongoing patterns of self-distraction
• 19:00–20:08: Excruciating passage of time; the necessity of “detox”
• 25:35: “The desert teaches by taking away”
• 26:24–32:22: Rethinking work, regrets, and family; the curse of overwork in ministry
• 37:32–39:03: Distraction, “monkey mind,” and the hope of ancient guidance
• 43:12–44:33: Comer’s “drift backward” into deep church history
• 51:51: “10,000 chances to return to God.” (Keating)
• 54:59–57:11: Real metric for spiritual progress
• 66:49–71:07: The cost of leaving community after stepping down; discerning new seasons via dreams
• 73:30–79:42: Changing church trends; why Catholic churches are quietly growing
• 82:57–89:15: The world’s hunger for quiet and contemplative spirituality; redefining “passion” in worship
• 89:33–94:41: The final encouragement to pursue quiet, solitude, and patient, incremental spiritual growth

Practical Applications & Takeaways

• Leaders need true solitude to process emotions, motivations, and pain—beyond “quiet” productivity.
• Succeeding in prayer is about returning to God, not emotional highs; distractions are normal and part of the spiritual journey.
• The most accurate metric for spiritual formation is slow, visible transformation according to those who know you best.
• The modern church is at a crossroads. The future may belong to quieter, more contemplative expressions of worship that better serve a digitally distracted culture.
• “Learning by subtraction” (solitude, quiet, limits) is as vital as learning by addition (content, teaching, books).

Closing Encouragement

John Mark Comer exhorts listeners:

“Don't be afraid of the quiet. Fear keeps us from the quiet, which keeps us from facing who we truly are...” (89:33)

The episode ends with both men urging leaders to rediscover ancient treasures: solitude, contemplation, patience, and gratitude—a quieter, deeper walk with God for the sake of personal health and faithful leadership.

For more resources, including show notes and episode transcripts:
careynieuwhof.com