Day 144: How We Worship (Part 2 Introduction with Bishop Andrew Cozzens) (2025)

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Day 144: How We Worship (Part 2 Introduction with Bishop Andrew Cozzens)"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Catechism in a Year (with Fr. Mike Schmitz)
• Host: Fr. Mike Schmitz
• Guest: Bishop Andrew Cousins of the Diocese of Crookston, Minnesota
• Episode: Day 144: How We Worship (Part 2 Introduction with Bishop Andrew Cozzens)
• Release Date: May 24, 2025

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Introduction to Pillar Two: Worship and Sacraments

In this episode, Fr. Mike Schmitz continues his journey through the Catechism of the Catholic Church by delving into the second pillar: Worship and Sacraments. This segment is particularly significant as it lays the foundation for understanding how Catholics engage in worship and the profound impact of the sacraments on their spiritual lives.

Welcoming the Guest: Bishop Andrew Cousins

Fr. Mike introduces his special guest, Bishop Andrew Cousins, who plays a pivotal role in the Eucharistic Revival movement.

[00:54] Bishop Andrew Cousins: "I post a little reflection, and other people put in their questions and comments, and once a month, we meet on Zoom to talk it through."

Bishop Cousins shares his initiative to engage Catholics in a deeper understanding and participation in the Catechism, fostering a community of over 230 members committed to this spiritual journey.

Eucharistic Revival and Its Importance

The Eucharistic Revival, chaired by Bishop Cousins, aims to rejuvenate belief, understanding, and practice of the Eucharist across the United States.

[02:57] Bishop Andrew Cousins: "It's a national three-year program that wants to affect every level of the Church."

Fr. Mike emphasizes the significance of this revival, recalling his personal transformative experience with the Eucharist.

Understanding Liturgy and Sacraments

The core discussion revolves around the liturgy as the public prayer of the Church and the sacraments as tangible signs of God's invisible realities.

[07:40] Bishop Andrew Cousins: "The liturgy is Jesus' own self-gift, his perfect worship. It's his prayer that he made to the Father."

Fr. Mike highlights how participating in sacraments transcends mere rituals, fostering a living relationship with Jesus.

Sacramental vs. Scientistic Worldview

Bishop Cousins contrasts the sacramental worldview with the prevalent scientistic worldview, which often reduces reality to what can be empirically observed.

[14:29] Bishop Andrew Cousins: "The word sacrament simply means a sign. A sacrament is something that we can physically, tangibly see, that makes present something that's invisible that we can't see."

He underscores that sacraments are not just symbols but actual channels through which God's presence is made real.

Biblical Understanding of Time and Memory

The discussion delves into the anamnesis—a Greek term for memory that involves making past events present in worship.

[23:03] Bishop Andrew Cousins: "The catechism calls this word anamnesis. It's the Greek word for memory."

Fr. Mike connects this to personal experiences, illustrating how the Mass transcends linear time to unite believers with the eternal.

Sacraments as Efficacious Signs

Bishop Cousins explains that sacraments are efficacious signs—they do what they signify, unlike ordinary signs.

[35:00] Bishop Andrew Cousins: "The sacraments are actually meant to help us at each of those moments in our life."

Fr. Mike elaborates on how each sacrament—such as Baptism, Eucharist, and Reconciliation—serves a distinct purpose in the believer's spiritual journey.

Personal Testimonies and Transformative Power

Both speakers share personal anecdotes illustrating the profound impact of sacraments.

[41:21] Bishop Andrew Cousins: "When I celebrated my first mass... I had no doubt I was genuflecting before the Lord of the universe."

Fr. Mike recounts a young man's return to the Church, emphasizing that sacramental experiences transcend emotional responses and effect genuine transformation through faith.

Overcoming Obstacles in Engaging with Sacraments

Addressing common challenges, Bishop Cousins advises believers to exercise faith to fully experience the transformative power of sacraments.

[37:40] Bishop Andrew Cousins: "One of the things you can do is exercise faith."

He emphasizes that the effectiveness of sacraments is closely tied to the individual's faith and disposition to be transformed.

Final Insights and Encouragement

As the episode concludes, Bishop Cousins offers encouragement to listeners embarking on the second pillar of the Catechism.

[44:50] Bishop Andrew Cousins: "Seek Jesus in the mysteries of the liturgy and the sacraments. You're going to find him there in a way that you've never found him or encountered him before."

Fr. Mike echoes this sentiment, reinforcing the idea that liturgy and sacraments are not mere obligations but profound encounters with the divine.

Key Takeaways:

1. Liturgy as Divine Prayer: The liturgy is not just human prayer but the participation in Jesus' own worship.
2. Sacraments as Real Encounters: Sacraments are more than symbols; they are actual means through which God's grace is dispensed.
3. Faith as a Catalyst: The transformative power of sacraments is activated through genuine faith.
4. Biblical Foundation: Understanding the sacramental worldview requires a biblical perspective on history and reality.
5. Personal Transformation: Regular participation in sacraments leads to ongoing spiritual growth and deeper union with God.

Notable Quotes:

• Bishop Andrew Cousins [07:40]: "The liturgy is Jesus' own self-gift, his perfect worship."
• Bishop Andrew Cousins [14:29]: "A sacrament is something that we can physically, tangibly see, that makes present something that's invisible that we can't see."
• Bishop Andrew Cousins [23:03]: "The catechism calls this word anamnesis. It's the Greek word for memory."
• Bishop Andrew Cousins [35:00]: "The sacraments are actually meant to help us at each of those moments in our life."
• Bishop Andrew Cousins [37:40]: "One of the things you can do is exercise faith."
• Bishop Andrew Cousins [44:50]: "Seek Jesus in the mysteries of the liturgy and the sacraments. You're going to find him there in a way that you've never found him or encountered him before."

Conclusion

Day 144 of The Catechism in a Year serves as a profound exploration of Catholic worship and sacraments. Through the insightful dialogue between Fr. Mike Schmitz and Bishop Andrew Cousins, listeners gain a deeper appreciation for the sacramental life, understanding it as a vital pathway to encountering and being transformed by God. This episode not only elucidates theological concepts but also inspires believers to engage more fully with their faith through the sacraments.

Transcript

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Foreign Mike Schmitz. And you're listening to the Catechism in a Year podcast, where we encounter God's plan of sheer goodness for us, revealed in Scripture and passed down through the tradition of the Catholic faith. It's always hard to say. The Catechism in a Year is brought to you by ascension. In 365 days, we'll read through the Catechism of the Catholic Church, discovering our identity in God's family as we journey together toward our heavenly home. This is day 144. We're on day two, actually, second day of our second pillar of the Catechism and the first pillar of the Catechism, the Creed. Awesome. Incredible. We got to hear about what we believe about God and what that means about us, the church, our salvation, everything. The second pillar is on worship. The second pillar is on the sacraments. And help me introduce pillar two. I have a very special guest with me, Bishop Andrew Cousins of the Diocese of Crookston, Minnesota. Bishop Cousins, thank you so much for joining us.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Thank you. It's a delight to be with you. Father Mike, are you familiar with the.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Catechism or the Catechism in Ear podcast?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah, I've been listening every day. And, in fact, more than that, I got this idea when I heard that you were going to do this, that I should maybe try to get people in my diocese to join me. So I got a little catechism group. We got about 230 of us who are doing it every day.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

That's awesome.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

I post a little reflection, and other people put in their questions and comments, and once a month, we meet on Zoom to talk it through. So I just thought this is a great chance for those Catholics who really want to engage this and others, too, to. To engage it together. And I. And I know, for me, I know if I have to post something every day, it's going to help me to keep going all 365 days, keep that faithfulness consistently.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

You just know, everyone just keep pressing play. Speaking of pressing play, on this day, this second day, 144. Right. It's kind of a longer episode. I remember my dad, who's also listening to the catechism. He had. He said day three. He said day one and day two. That was fine. Day three, 45 minutes. What the heck? What's going on? I was like, well, this is one of those longer episodes, too. But we're doing this because we want to get a kind of a general overview of what is this next section? What's this next Pillar of the Catechism. And I really wanted Bishop Cousins to be. To do this. Not only. Well, a couple reasons. One is, so when I went through seminary, it was fine. It was good. It was. But after I graduated, after I was ordained, Bishop Cousins was. Became a professor at the St. Paul Seminary. And one of the classes he taught was on the Eucharist. And I have these other, you know, seminarians, now they're priests in my diocese who would tell me all about this class that you taught. And I was so jealous. I mean, I had the. We'll call it Holy Jealousy. It was just jealousy. I was, I was like, what the heck? I didn't hear any of this stuff. And they would, they would come back from your class just being so. Not just educated, but edified. Right. Not just, not just kind of like with what we talking about this whole time in the catechism, not just with more data, but with a heart that loves the Lord more. And so I was like, well, if there's anyone who should introduce this, this pillar with me, it should be Bishop Cousins. The other piece is this year is the Eucharistic Revival kicking off. And so would you mind just sharing a little bit about that?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah. So I have the privilege of chairing this national Eucharistic revival, which is a. It's a project of the Bishops Conference in the United States Catholic Conference of Bishops. And I'm the chair of the Committee on Evangelization and Catechesis. And so this job fell to me and basically it's been a beautiful privilege because really what we've tried to do is create a movement across the country that would help renew and revive belief, understanding, practice in the Eucharist. We all know that, you know, amongst Catholics, attending Sunday Mass is at an all time low. Right. The post Covid studies are saying now maybe 15% of Catholics are attending Sunday Mass, which means people haven't had an encounter with Jesus in the Eucharist. And that encounter is transformative. And so that's really the goal of the Eucharistic Revival. It's a national three year program that wants to affect every level of the Church. We're going to have a big national eucharistic Congress in 2024 where people will be able to encounter Jesus in the Eucharist in profound ways all throughout this revival. But the goal is really just to renew the Church by inviting people into this living relationship with Jesus, which is exactly what we're talking about in this section of the Catechism.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah, that's so good. Especially, I mean Even calling it that it's a revival. It's that sense of. It's not adding something that's. That's new. It is recovering something that has been. Has been lost in so many ways. And how many of us. I know for myself, when it came to the. I encountered Jesus in confession for the first time, but that really transformed my life. It was an encounter with Jesus in confession when I was just a teenager. And then right after that, I was reading about the Eucharist and that I just was that information that led me to just fall in love with the Lord in the Eucharist. And I. I've just asked a question for you, like, has that been. Has the Eucharist? Because out of all the sacraments. Right. Seven sacraments. The Eucharist is sacrament par excellence in so many ways. What has there been an encounter of with Jesus for you in the Eucharist?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah, I, you know, from actually a very young age, I had an. I had an encounter with Jesus in the Eucharist. And I actually, I remember very distinctly my parish priest teaching me to genuflect. You know, really put your right here, knee on the floor here, because God's present here before this tabernacle and impressing upon me, like, we bend our knee before God. Yeah, right. And that whole sense. And then serving Mass after that, immediately I sensed I wasn't just in the presence of a ritual, but a person.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

And that's really the heart of the Eucharist. Right. It's Jesus's death and resurrection and Jesus own person who comes to us. And that's really what, you know, ultimately led me to priesthood and ultimately led me to give my life. I love the way St. John Paul II described his priesthood. He said, I was ordained a servant of the Eucharist. Like, here's the heart of our faith that everything else in a certain way serves, because here's where we worship God perfectly.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Wow, that's incredible. And just even just kind of comparing my experience of when I first encountered Jesus in the Eucharist began with learning more reading about this. Your experience began with, here's a ritual that paved. It wasn't the ritual wasn't the point, just like the words or the teaching wasn't the point. Jesus is the point. And so what we're going to do as we go through these next weeks and maybe a couple months of going through the catechism in this pillar too, is to go through the rituals, learn about the rituals, to learn about what do we believe about the sacraments. But the end goal is that relationship with the Lord. Right. That encounter with the living God. And so what's like the overarching point of pillar two?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yes. You know, so basically pillar two, we're going to talk about liturgy and the sacraments. Right, Right. And so this is how the Church prays. But it's more than how the Church prays. It's how the Church continues her life throughout time. And the overarching point is we're invited to live Christ's own life through the liturgy and the sacraments. And Christ wants to live his life in us. And so all that we've been talking about in terms of the theology of God and all that we believe, that's not all something that happens in the past. These are mysteries that we can encounter now. And that's what the liturgy and sacraments wants us to understand is as we enter into these mysteries, they transform us. We become more, more, more and more Jesus living in. And the goal of course, is that we would then be able to transform the world through our own transformation, which happens by living and experiencing and encountering Jesus in His mysteries.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah. When you said that the sacraments, the liturgy is the prayer of Jesus, what's that mean?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

It's very important.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

People who are like jumping into the Catechism for the first time, they may be going to Mass maybe. Actually we probably have a lot of non Catholics who maybe haven't been to Mass or maybe they'll start like, what is it to say that the liturgy and the sacraments are the prayer of Jesus?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

This is very important because of course it's important that I pray. It's important that we pray. But that's not only what the liturgy is. This isn't a group of people just gathered here. Actually, the liturgy is Jesus own self gift, his perfect worship. It's his prayer that he made to the Father and we'll talk about this, but his prayer that he made in this gift of self on the cross. But we actually are invited to participate in that prayer. And so the liturgy is like in that way, infinitely more important than any other kind of prayer that we could possibly do. Because it's not just my prayer. I'm participating in Christ's prayer. And you see this all throughout the signs and symbols of the liturgy. It's trying to draw me in to heaven. It's trying to draw me into where Jesus, as the Book of Hebrews says, has gone ahead with, with his own offering to the Father. And we're invited into that to participate in that. Just as it's trying to draw me back to the Passover, as we'll see.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Right. So just to highlight what you just said, which is, again, it's blowing my mind and my heart. Is that because a lot of people would say, well, I can't wait to get to pillar four. Pillar four and prayer, which is obviously going to be incredibly important for us, say, well, I know I have a prayer life. But what you're highlighting is the sacraments. Even though sometimes we can encounter them and not feel like we prayed, we can sometimes go through the liturgy or the rituals and not feel like we prayed. But when we go, we encounter Jesus in the sacraments. When we celebrate the sacraments, we are actually not just praying our own prayer, we're praying the prayer of Jesus himself.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Exactly.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

And. Oh, gosh. So that's why we're going to spend time here on pillar two. That's why it's important. A little longer episode is going to be worth your while.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Exactly.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

So imagine no one has ever had any experience with pillar two. What kind of. How is it structured so they can kind of get the kind of lay of the land when it comes to the second pillar?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

The way that the pillar 2 is structured is that it begins first just talking about what is the liturgy? And it really, actually begins with the Trinity. Right. And how the liturgy is inviting us into this life of the Trinity and how, you know, we've talked about the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in pillar one. Now we're going to see how actually our life of prayer in the liturgy allows us to enter into the Trinity itself. Right. So we pray through the Holy Spirit in the Son, and what that all makes present in terms of what we'll call true worship through the Trinity. And then it's going to talk about what the liturgy is and all the different aspects of the liturgy. You know, who prays the liturgy, when do we pray it, why do we pray it? Why is it so important what we've been talking about? The prayer of Jesus and how we enter into that, and then it's going to go into the sacraments. And it's really beautiful because we're going to go through each of the seven sacraments and actually see how those sacraments affect us at various moments in our life.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

So we're using the word liturgy, and I think I know what it means. And you think. But I imagine there's some people here who might have been told, here's what liturgy means. Maybe they know sacraments. You know, there's seven of them. But how can give us a. What's a working definition of liturgy? So that as we're saying. Yeah, this. As we enter into the liturgy, it does this. What? Enter into what?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah, the liturgy officially means, like, the work or a public work, but what it really means for us is it's the official prayer of the Church.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Right.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

So first and foremost, the Holy Mass, the Eucharist. Right. That's the center of all liturgies in the center of our whole liturgical life. But then you have the Liturgy of the Hours, that priests and others and lots of lay people pray it every day. Right. And so you have all the sacramental liturgies. Those are the rituals. So it's the official public prayer of the Church.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Okay. So everything from the sacraments to the liturgy, the hours, like praying, but morning prayer, evening prayer, night prayer, that kind of situation. But it's a way that individual members of the Church can enter into the overall prayer of the Church. Is that kind of a way to say it?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Exactly. Yeah. And the beauty, of course, is the church is always praying, right?

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Every hour of the day, the Mass is being offered somewhere in the world. Every hour of the day, people are praying the Liturgy of the Hours. It's morning somewhere right now, and it's evening somewhere. And those liturgical prayers are like. It's like the response of the Son to the Father in the Holy Spirit, the Son being us, the Body of Christ, constantly praying to the Father. And that's the liturgy we're invited into.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Well, you mentioned that here's the prayer of the Church has its praise in the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit to the Father.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yes.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Would you say that it's accurate? I'm just asking this for myself because I think this is something I came across a couple years ago, and it revolutionized the way that I celebrated the Mass and revolutionized the way that any kind of prayer was oriented, that it's all an offering to the Father.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Correct.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

And so just like when we're saying Lord, in. In the Mass, that Lord is the Father, we're talking to dad in Heaven. Our Father in Heaven.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Exactly. Which is why when Jesus taught us to pray, what did he say? Pray our Father. And we can only pray that in Jesus.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

But when we pray it in Jesus, it means something radically new for who we are as human beings and what our eternal destiny is.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

That's incredible. So. So then I think that for any of us listening right now, too, we might not get to that section of the Catechism for a few days or A few weeks. But the next time you go to Mass, to be able to recognize that in the Mass, the whole point isn't necessarily to get the Eucharist or to get the Word, although those are gifts of the. Of the Mass, but to give to the Father the worship of Jesus.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yes.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

And so. So the lay of the land is the first section is on the liturgy, and the second section is on the sacraments themselves, those seven sacraments. Okay, so as people start, what are maybe some obstacles they're going to encounter as they start, okay, here we go. You know, we're leaving the Creed behind, and we're kind of walking into the second pillar on worship, on the liturgy, on the sacraments. What are some obstacles they're going to face?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah, this is really important to understand, because to understand the liturgy, you have to have a biblical worldview. Right. Because the Church has a biblical worldview, and we live in this biblical worldview. And this was one of the beautiful things about the Bible timeline and what you did with the Bible in a year, it's like helping people understand this whole biblical worldview. Who am I in light of what the Bible tells me, who I am? Right. And so the biblical worldview is also what we might call a sacramental worldview. And it's really important to understand this, to understand the Catechism. That word sacrament, it simply means, like, sign. Right. And what it simply means is a sacrament is something that we can physically, tangibly see, that makes present something that's invisible that we can't see. Right.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Take something we can see and makes present to us something we can't see.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Correct. But a biblical worldview says the whole world's a sacrament. It says in the Psalms, the world is telling the glory of God like the sunrise this morning. Incredible. That tells me that God loves me again today.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Right.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

And it speaks to me of God's love. All the stars, everything in nature, everything that exists points to the reason that it exists.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

We're kind of going back to the very beginning of the Catechism that what are some sources of revelation? One of them is just the natural world and reason that we look at this world and it reveals something to us that we can't see in nature, but we can see. It's made present to us by the reality of nature. Is that kind of idea?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Exactly. The problem is that today we have kind of a different worldview because we have more what I would call a scientistic worldview. And by that I don't mean scientific. Like, science is a really good Thing we believe in science, we know that science tells us about reality. But when we have this worldview that says the only things that are real are things that I can see or touch or feel with my senses, material things, or the only things that are true are things that I can prove from some kind of scientific experiment. Now, that's actually a ridiculous statement. And it's ridiculous in this sense. Like, there's so many things that are true. Like, you know, two plus two is four. Yes, I can prove that to you. But if you held the gun to my head and said, two plus two is five, I'd agree with you. Right? Because I don't really care about that. But, you know, my mother loves me. How can I prove to you that my mother loves me? Well, I can give you lots of examples, but I mean, how do I know my dad wasn't paying her on the side for all the nice things she did to me? And so I can't prove it, but everything proves it. And no part of me doubts it. And it's because I know it's true, because it adds up to reality. Right? And this is in fact, the same thing about God. Like, everything proves God's existence. When you start to see, rightly, everything points to Him. And then what we begin to see is that God made creation, so it would point to Him. And then he actually, in creation, he sanctified certain actions on his own, and he made those actually carry his own divine presence. And this is what the sacraments are. It's like sign with a capital S. Sacrament with a capital S. It's like, no, these things, they don't just signify God's presence, but they actually make God's presence real here and now for us in a very, very powerful way. Let me give you an example. This might be a too long of an example, but it's. Let's go for it. Some years ago, I got to visit Belarus and I got to visit a place where the faith had been attempted to be stomped out by Stalin in Russia, you know, on the border of Belarus and Russia. And in that place, Stalin had come in with his troops. It was a small Polish village, and he had destroyed the church. He had killed the priest. And he left this small village of Catholics, and they went without a priest for 60 years.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Really.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

60 years.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

60 years.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

And every Sunday they would gather and they would take the Roman Missal in Latin and they would pass it around and read parts of it. And when they got to the words of consecration, which they couldn't say, because they didn't have a priest, they would just sit in silence and long for Jesus in the Eucharist.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Wow.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Right. And then when things really got bad and they felt the weight of their sins, they went to the grave of their priest and they would speak their sins out loud, begging God to forgive them over the grave of their priest. Now, what if you went to those people and said, you know, like, you can go right to God, right? You don't need the sacraments. They would say, well, we know that, but God would come so much closer if we could have him in the sacrament of the Eucharist, or if we could actually hear the words of Jesus saying, your sins are forgiven. Right. They were longing for that encounter with him, which eventually, you know, some years later, a priest came and got to be able to hear their confessions and celebrate mass for him. And they wept.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Because Jesus can come so much closer through the sacraments.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Well, even just that, I mean, that's not only just blows my mind. Incredible. But also for someone to say, you can just glory to God, you can just kind of pray wherever is not only it's true, but it's kind of a minimalist type true. Where it's like, yeah, that's. That is the minimum. If that's all, I. I can do that. If that's all I have. Um, but isn't there. I mean, I just going pulling back to what you had said, where all of creation reveals God. So, yes, of course you can pray in the woods, and of course you can. You know what? There's 21st street in. In Duluth, draft on 21st. And right in front of you, you can see Lake Superior just in the morning. The sun's coming up over it. It's just diamonds on the water. It's incredible. That is true. That reveals the glory of God. But there's these places and moments, there's these times and places. Right. Where God doesn't just review. You said God doesn't just reveal himself, but he comes to us in a very particular way. Right? Comes to us giving his life in a particular way, comes to us giving his healing in a particular way and his forgiveness in a particular way.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Right. And the sacraments are rooted in the incarnation. This is important, Right? So Jesus. God became flesh. He took on our human matter. And when people encountered Jesus, they encountered a sacrament, right? They encountered a physical body. They couldn't see God, but they could touch him. Because when they touched Jesus, they touched God. And when Jesus touched them, God touched them. And so the sacraments continue that incarnational principle. And St. Thomas Aquinas, when he talks about the sacraments, he says it's actually charity to speak to people in a way that they can understand. And so the sacraments, through the sacraments, God speaks to us through material things. He comes to us through material things so that we can receive him and understand him and encounter Him. And so it's like what, what in this Saint Leo the Great says, and it's quoted in the catechism. Right. What began in the Incarnation of God's presence in our midst is continued in the sacraments, in the life of the church, so that we can still encounter the living Jesus today.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Well, that sense of the Incarnation, I always say something like, you know, that God being all powerful, could have just declared the world saved, like, feasibly. Right. He could have just said saved. But the God who created the world, but the Word could redeem the Word with the world, with a word. And yet how does he do it? He takes on a body, and in the body he lives and he suffers and he dies, and he rises from there. That ascends to heaven. And that's how he wanted to mediate salvation to us. And. Right. So he said. So is it Tertullian who says the flesh is the hinge of salvation?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yes.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

That sense of it all is on this, the sense of that God, like you said, when Jesus touched them, God was touching them. When he healed them, God was healing them. And now even St. Ambrose, I think, who says something along the lines of, I've seen your face, O Lord, I see your face in the sacraments.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yes.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

That you've come to me in the flesh, essentially, in the sacraments. So. So that sacramental worldview versus a scientistic worldview is, Is going to be one of the obstacles people are going to have to kind of like, maybe a lot of us learn. Learn to embrace.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Absolutely. Yep. The other obstacle that's really important is to try to understand how the Bible understands history. And, you know, the course, the. The key at understanding divine revelation in the Bible is that God breaks into history.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

And he breaks into history and he saves us through these salvific events. So going back to the Old Testament, you have Exodus, there's this salvific event that actually creates the people of Israel and saves them throughout all of time. But because the Jews have a biblical understanding of history, what do they do every year on the anniversary of that? They gather and they remember that event, but they don't think of memory the way we think of memory. What is memory? I recall this thing that happened in the past, and I make it present in my mind. But the Jewish people actually believed in Hebrew. They called the word zikaron. Right. This idea of memory that makes the event present. So when they celebrated Passover, when Jesus celebrated passover with his apostles, he believed that the event of passing through the Red Sea was becoming present now, and that they were being saved through this celebration here and now by the event that happened in the past, because they were connected to that event in time.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

He was taking that past event and making it present.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Exactly.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

So the catechism calls this word anamnesis. It's the Greek word for memory. But this is so important because this is why Jesus last command to his church is, do this in memory of me. He doesn't just mean make a ritual remembering of this, because it's a nice thing to think. Oh, yeah. Remember Jesus, he gave us the Last Supper and he died on the cross for us.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Don't forget.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

That was a nice thing. Forget that. No, he means that when we make memory of this, that event which happened once in time becomes present here and now. And not just that event, but actually its fulfillment in heaven becomes present here and now. And this is where we come to understand, really, the liturgy exists in a certain way in God's eternity. And when we celebrate the liturgy, especially Holy Mass, we enter into God's eternal time and we experience it as if it's present now so that we can be transformed by it and live by it. This is all in the catechism. It's really important to understand.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

That's incredible. I mean, just. So the first thing is a sacramental worldview. Worldview versus a scientistic. So all there is is just stuff. All it is is what you see. There's more that what you see reveals something and also even communicates something even more important. And the second is a linear view of time versus, what would you say? The biblical view of time.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah. Which is this idea that the salvific events that happen in time are not completely in the past.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Because they participate in God's eternity.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

And that's one of the. I love that. You know, sometimes when I'm speaking to our students, we talk about what's happening at the Mass is on the altar. Time and eternity meet, that heaven and earth kiss. And that's what we're saying, right. Is that this. This event that happened at one moment in time is now expanded throughout all of eternity. And we get to, like, participate. We get to participate in it, in this unique way in the sacraments, I imagine, probably also reconciliation. The sacrament of reconciliation would also be here's God's mercy breaking through in a particular way, if that be accurate.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Exactly, exactly. Every one of the sacraments, eternity breaks into time. And the sacrament of marriage, like here, in fact, an invisible bond that is going to last until death is formed between this couple. And it's unbreakable. Nothing can break it. And it's actually God's love for the church breaking in and uniting this couple so they become one.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

So this isn't all like abstract theology. This is very much concrete and present. And here's in marriages, people who will be listening to this in the next few days, next few weeks, like, this is how God has broken into my life and made this his grace, his presence, his reality, real.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

And this is the power of the sacraments because they're actually meant to help us at each of those moments in our life. And we're going to see that as we go through it. Right at the beginning of our Christian life, we need baptism, and it gives us all the grace that we need to become saints. Right. But then as we grow, we need to be strengthened by confirmation. And that, in fact, allows us to become strong enough to stand in the world and to testify in the world. And then, of course, there's the daily growing in union with him through the Eucharist. Right. And each of the sacraments, as they go, they give us a particular grace for a particular part of our life.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

So it's not just a one and done kind of situation.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Exactly.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

But it's here's God who, in these, in these unique ways, these seven unique ways, he breaks into our lives in very particular and intentional, lack of better term ways. So if we were to say, okay, okay, we're starting tomorrow, the next section is on the liturgy. You said we begin with the Trinity. Is there anything to kind of understand in a deeper way about, like, the liturgy is when it comes to this next step tomorrow, in the next few days?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah. So when I talk about what the liturgy actually is, I like to use that phrase that Jesus uses, worship and spirit and truth from John Chapter four. And when you study that in John chapter four in John's Gospel, you begin to see what in fact Jesus is doing. So in John chapter three, if we remember, Jesus cleanses the temple, and people are scandalized when you cleanse the temple, and they say, by what authority do you do this? And he says, destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up and then St. John tells us, in quote, in parentheses, he was speaking about the temple of his body. And then Jesus in the very next chapter, goes to Samaria where they worship at Jacob's well. And he meets the Samaritan woman and has that dialogue with her. And then he tells her, he says. She says, you know, you Jews say, we're supposed to worship the temple. We worship here. And he says, you know, actually the time is coming. The hour is coming and is already here when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth. And the Father seeks such people to worship him. That hour of Jesus, which of course began at Cana. Right. Which is in fact continued here. And he speaks about it through all of John's Gospel until John chapter 12, when he says, this is the hour for the Son of man to be glorified. That hour is really the true worship that Jesus offers. It's very the hour.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

So there's one. So he said, it begins at Cana, because, you know, Jesus has to marry. What has this to do with you? And with me, woman, My hour has not yet come. But then he moves, right. So exactly begins this. That is fulfilled in now. The hour has come, Father, be glorified.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Exactly. And in fact, notice there's two times in John's Gospel when Jesus calls Mary, woman at John, chapter two, at Cana. And then when he's on the cross.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

And he says, woman, behold your son. Because of course, in that moment, Jesus is giving birth to the church. Right. As he gives his life. It's very important to understand that the cross is an act of worship.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah. You said the one true act of worship.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Exactly the way we would say it. Is this the one true act of worship that ever happened in the whole history of the world? What is worship? Worship is this giving back of ourselves to God from whom we came. It's what we owe him. He gave us our lives, and we have to give ourselves back. But of course, we have failed in sin in so many ways. And so to make up for that, what did they do in the Old Testament? They gave replacement sacrifice. They sacrificed bulls and goats as God commanded them to. But when Jesus comes, he actually ends temple worship, which is why when he dies on the cross, it's recorded in the Gospel that the temple curtain is torn in two. In fact, the temple is destroyed. Why? Because the new temple has come. The place where the one true act of worship will happen. Jesus, because he's both God and man, is the only one who can offer perfect worship to the Father. And he makes that self gift on our behalf to save us from our sins in order to restore us, to become children of God so that now we can offer true worship. But true worship isn't the beautiful prayer that I might offer even when I'm singing with all my heart. Right? That's beautiful. And it's really important to sing with all my heart. But actually the true worship is the worship of Jesus, which is why he says, do this in memory of me, because he wants that one act of true worship to be present throughout all of time in the Mass so that you and I can participate in it. And this is what makes the Mass so much more than anything else we could possibly do. Right? And what am I supposed to do at Mass? I'm supposed to bring my life, all my particular sacrifices, struggles, my weaknesses, everything that is me today. And I place that on the altar at the offertory when the priest offers the bread and wine. And then that very imperfect sacrifice of mine, with all my particular weaknesses and frustrations, it actually is joined to Jesus sacrifice and it's offered to the Father and it becomes pleasing to the Father in Jesus because we're all sons and daughters in the one Son. So this is what it means to worship in spirit and truth. It's the one true worship that Jesus offered on the cross, that we are all united in the Holy Spirit offering and that is actually pleasing to the Father. And then of course, it transforms us. And when we give this to the Father, what does he do? He gives us back the life of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. He gives us the resurrected life of Jesus which comes to live in us, so that we can now continue to live this life in the world.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Okay, so everything you just said, this is life changing. I mean, truly, hopefully everyone who's listening to this is just. If you could underline something in your brain would be okay. Jesus sacrifice on the cross, which is a culmination of everything that began the Incarnation, is the one true act of worship. And so the Mass, and it's Jesus saying, do this in memory of me. So that is the once for all self sacrifice of the Son to the Father. And he invites us into this. So every time we worship God in the Mass, we're uniting ourselves to the one true act of worship that has been given. So. Oh my gosh. So St. Paul writing, offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and beloved, you're uniting. Like you said, my hopes, my fears, my struggles, my pains, my joys in the Mass, those things become acceptable. They become part of this true worship. Okay. So eucharistic revival. Go. It's so good. I mean, this is what this is all about. I think this is part of why we're doing the catechism in a year is because it's not, as we said before, it's not just facts. Like, this is the stuff that I didn't realize what I was doing. I didn't even realize that I was part of this. I've just go to Mass in my small country parish, my small hometown parish, my massive mega church parish. I didn't realize this was what was happening.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah. And you know the catechism, when it talks about. It will talk about the Paschal mystery.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

And so the Paschal Mystery is the event that saved us. Right. So it's the Last Supper, where Jesus gathers to celebrate the Passover with no Passover lamb, except that he becomes the Passover lamb, where he says, this is my body given for you. This is my blood poured out for you, where he points to what he's going to do on the cross. And in fact, you can't understand the Last Supper without understanding the cross. Right. And so what he does on the cross then is this gift of self to the Father for our salvation. But then you can't understand the cross without the resurrection and even the ascension into heaven. Right. Because his death on the cross would be empty without the resurrection. And so when we talk about the Paschal Mystery, we're talking about the Last Supper, death on the cross, his resurrection and his ascension all present in this one mystery. And that's what we enter into at Mass, and that's what we're offering with Jesus to the Father and of course, then receiving the life back.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Right. That's incredible. So, wow. Okay, so this is. That's. It's all in everything we're teaching. That's not just what we're teaching, what we're living. So the next section in the catechism is not just about the liturgy, but about in particular, kind of the seven sacraments.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yes.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

And so what would be some. Some key takeaways that. For people to kind of pay attention to as we hit these seven sacraments.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah. Maybe just first to. To emphasize what a sacrament is, you know, so we call a sacrament an efficacious sign. Okay. That's a big word. What does it mean? It means the sign causes what it signifies. Right. So we're used to signs. We have simple signs, like a stop sign. Right. The stop sign doesn't actually cause you to stop, as many people could testify.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

I can demonstrate that I can prove it. I do it every day.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Right. But there are even in nature, like, what we'd call complex signs, they make present what they signify. So smoke is a sign of fire. When you see smoke, you know there's a fire. Right. One of the ways I like to talk about is the body is a sign of the soul. Right. When you see a living body, you know there's a soul there because it looks very different than a dead body.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Right?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Right. When there's no soul there, you can tell the difference. And so you can't see the soul, but you can see the sign or the effect of the soul. And the sacraments are like that in a certain way, but supernatural. So they cause what they signify. So it's not just when the priest says over these words, this is my body, over this bread, this is my body, over the wine, this is my blood. It's not just that it's a symbol of the body and blood. It is.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

It becomes.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah, but it actually becomes the body and blood of Jesus. So much so that we would say there's no more bread there, there's no more wine there. What's there? Jesus body and Jesus blood, and whatever his body and blood is, his human soul is there and his divinity is there. All that Jesus is becomes present. So they cause what they signify. When the priest pours water over the baby's head, it actually causes something, causes the wiping away of sin, and it fills him with new life. So to understand that fact helps us see that these are not just simple signs.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Right. So an efficacious sign is a sign that does what it's a sign of. Yes, like a stop sign that stops you. Baptism is a sign of washing. And so it does wash away original sin. It's a sign of new birth, actually does make us into God's sons and daughters. And then, like you said, the sign of signs, when the sign is this is my body, actually becomes his body and blood, soul and divinity, which is. Or even just that, reconciliation. Not just, but confession, it's a sign of God's mercy, actually does impart God's mercy to us.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Exactly. And this is part of the beauty of the sacraments, is they're not simply based on my feelings. Right. Because we all know sometimes I feel more sorry or less sorry when I go to confession. But the fact is, God works, and I want to be sorry for my sins. And the more sorry I feel, the better. But regardless, God forgives my sins if I have Some contrition. So the point is that the sacraments are actually objective ways that God begins to transform us, that we gradually surrender ourselves to.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Well, you know, you said that there was a young man who was raised Catholic, and he left the Catholic Church and he came back. I remember after he went to confession, and after the confession, he said, you know what? He said, I don't feel anything. And he said, but. But this. He said, that's good. He said when he was away from the church, and he said whenever he felt that he needed to repent of sins, he would turn. He was a big music guy. He would turn on songs, worship songs, Christian songs that would make him feel sad. And then so he kind of worked himself up to feel repentant and to feel sad about his sins. And then he would ask God's forgiveness. And then he turn on songs that were declaring, I am forgiven. I'm, you know, redeemed, this kind of thing to make himself feel forgiven. And he said, here I went to confession and I don't feel anything, but I know that I'm forgiven now. I know that I'm have been made new because as you said, it's an objective reality that that happens, which is incredible. But what happens when people, if you don't mind me asking this, what would you say to someone who says, yeah, I go to Mass, I don't feel anything. I go to confession, don't feel anything. How can I get more out of the sacraments as we kind of take these next steps? Maybe the second to last thing as we conclude our episode today?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah. So one of the things you can do is exercise faith. So the sacraments are effective based on our faith, right?

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

The example I always use of this is the famous story of the woman in the hemorrhage. In the Gospel, Jesus is walking along and she has this hemorrhage and she has this sense, if I could just touch him, I'll be healed. And so she does, even though she's not supposed to touch him, because she's got this hemorrhage and she's unclean in that sense of the Jewish law. But she does go and touch him and she's healed. And Jesus, he feels power went out from him, and he looks around and says, who touched me? And the apostles are like, what do you mean? Like, you're surrounded by everybody's touching you, but one person touched with faith. And this is the power of the sacraments. Like, if I have faith when I receive the sacraments, they will transform me. So it's not based on feeling, but it is based on faith. And this is why. It explains the fact that many people go to the sacraments and they're not transformed because they haven't exercised faith. You know, they might receive them casually, or they might not think about what they're doing, or they might not even really believe what they're doing. Faith allows the sacraments to be effective. In me, if I don't have faith, I still receive Jesus when I go to Holy Communion, I still receive him body, blood, soul, and divinity. But he'll only transform me to the degree that I'm disposed to be in transform.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

I love that example of the woman with the hemorrhage. Everyone's touching Jesus, but she touches with faith. Just like in the Eucharist, everyone's receiving Jesus. It's not if you think so or if you believe so, it's true. And yet that transformation, you know, you had mentioned that the sacraments, not only they will, they create. Is that the right way to say it? They put in right relationship, they right order our relationship with God.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yes.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Like, they make that relationship. Right, but they also. How did the sacraments help us grow in that relationship?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah. So when St. Thomas Aquinas talks about the sacraments, he talks about them, like, with a natural analogy, you know. So, like, we have these sacraments which accompany us at every moment of our life. So at birth, baptism, as we grow, confirmation, as we get strength in the Eucharist. And so they accompany us at every moment of our life, especially those most important moments when people join their lives together in marriage, when a man is made a priest so that he can serve the mystery of redemption in the world. Right. And then also when we need healing or when we need reconciliation. So at each of those moments, the sacraments are there to help us grow. And what you find as you live a sacramental life is that it affects you. It. It gets in your bones. And we always say that about Catholics. You know, it's like something gets in me that actually begins to make me more and more like Jesus. And this is why regular use of the sacraments is so important. It's why, you know, regular practice of the Mass, even during the week, can really be transformative. It's like regular confession can really be transformative because it makes me more and more like Jesus as I grow in him.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

And that being the point. Right, is exactly. I'm brought into a relationship with the Trinity, but that. That sharing that divine life so that I can be more and more like the Son that more and more like Jesus, whose will is conformed to the Fathers and. Okay, so last couple of things, if you don't mind me asking, Bishop. Yes, a couple things as we move forward. First, is there a way that you'd say, if you want to share, how have the sacraments been impactful in your life? Is it. What's. It's a way in which you'd say, okay, so this isn't just a ritual I go through. This isn't just something I kind of do and really quote, unquote helps me. But like, no, this is actually transform my life. This is something that's not optional, it's necessary or anything along those lines that you'd say, I just point to this and say, for my life, this is necessary.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah. You know, when I was getting ready to be ordained a priest, I had always believed in Jesus presence in the Eucharist, you know, and I'd always believed that he was really there. But the thought occurred to me about maybe a month before I was ordained, or two months before. Wait a minute. When. When I'm the one standing at the altar and I'm the one who says those words, this is my body, will I believe this is really Jesus? You know, and it actually kind of was like a fear for me a little bit as I got close to being ordained a priest. But I can honestly tell you. And it was one of those moments where the. The faith of the church becomes so clear that when I celebrated my first mass in the cathedral in St. Paul and I said the words, this is my body given up for you, and I raised up that host and then I set it down on the patent and I genuflected. I had no doubt I was genuflecting before the Lord of the universe. And really that sense that, you know, my whole life exists for him, and so the sacraments become that way for me, that I can encounter him really truly living today. And I can't imagine living without that.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Yeah, no, that's so good. Like you said, there's that human aspect where, you know, when we keep the Lord, keep the Bible, keep the sacraments distant, it's like, well, yeah, then it's holy because it's distant. What happens when he gets so close? And that's. That's one of the things that we recognize is, you know, you and I were talking about this, that when it comes to the Bible, sometimes it in some ways can be for some people, easier to accept than the catechism in the sense that, yeah, the Bible's really old. And it gives us teachings for way, way back when, but also applicable to now, obviously. But the Catechism is like, oh, no, this is what we're called to believe now is what we're called to, how we're called to live now in the sacraments. Here's how we're called to worship now. And they kind of invade our lives. In some ways they impose themselves. I mean, not really, you know, because God only proposes. He doesn't impose Himself, but they kind of impose themselves in our lives. We can't. The sacraments are one. I would say this may be something like this. The sacraments are a way in which God refuses to remain distant, just like the Incarnation is a way in which God refuses to remain distant. And the. The Pentecost is a way in which God refuses to remain distant. Can you say one thing on that, if you don't mind me asking?

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Yeah. Basically, the sacraments provide this direct encounter with God that's not possible anywhere else. And I think that would be the thing I would encourage people to keep in mind most as they're reading this second pillar of the catechism. Here we are 144 days in. We're only at the second pillar. This second pillar is to keep in mind that it's all about an encounter with God, Jesus, and then through Jesus, through the Trinity, right in the Holy Spirit. And that the whole purpose of the liturgy, the whole purpose of all the mysteries that we celebrate, is that we can come into this relationship with God. Everything exists for that relationship. And the more we allow ourselves to encounter him, then the more that we're going to be transformed by him because he gives us the sacraments to transform us.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

Right.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

And in order that we can then transform the world and also that we can live in union with him and be pleasing to Him.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

That's so good. This has been so helpful. But just one last piece. Any last piece of advice or any last comment you'd like to just say by way of parting as we begin the second pillar. Keep this in mind as we move forward.

[Bishop Andrew Cousins]

Maybe buckle your seatbelts. Some of these sections are intense. Right in the this second pillar. There's long paragraphs in certain places, but yeah, seek Jesus in the mysteries of the liturgy and the sacraments. You're going to find him there in a way that you've never found him or encountered him before. If you allow yourself to enter into these mysteries.

[Father Mike Schmitz]

That's so good. And as we said at the very beginning, this is, you know, there's some people get intimidated by the teachings, intimidated by the rituals, or put off by either of them, but they're merely the vehicles to get to the heart, which is Him. Like you said, you said the life of the Trinity. Remember that first paragraph, that God had a plan of your goodness. He. He gives himself, reveals himself to us so that we can share in his own divine life. So thank you so much for your time, Bishop. I'm just so grateful and also taking time out of your schedule to be with the Eucharistic revival. And we're just praying for that. We're praying truly that this. This what we're doing here does a little piece of. To, yeah, revive a love for Jesus in the Eucharist in the hearts of not just every Catholic around the country, but every person around the country. So thank you so much. I'm praying for you, and please know that. Pray for each other. I'm praying for you. Please pray for me. My name is Father Mike. I cannot wait to see you tomorrow. God bless.