← Everything Is Energy with Cathy Heller
Everything Is Energy with Cathy Heller
Amy Porterfield on How to Create & Sell Your Digital Course with Confidence
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- [00:00]
A
Okay, so I'm so excited because guess what? My paperback of Abundant Ever after is coming out on 11 11. How cool is that? Simon and Schuster said that they picked that date without Even realizing that 1111 is kind of that date that's like known for synchronicity and that's what the whole book is about. So I'm really excited. It would mean the world to me if you would pre order a paperback. And there's so many perks. If you pre order one copy of the paperback, you get to come, you get a virtual ticket to a live event we're doing that day. If you order three co, you can have a free in person ticket to the event we're doing in person in Los Angeles. If you order five books, five free order of paperback, you get to come sit in the front row and get some perks. And if you order 22 copies, just the first few that do this, I'm going to do a one on one coaching session with you. So go pre order the paperback. It would mean the world to me. And then you can just email helloathyheller.com and you can let us know if you did any of those things and we will get you all the insights and we'll get you the inside scoop on all those perks. I love you guys so much and thank you for supporting Abundant Ever After. It's been so cool to read your reviews and how well the book is doing and it did hit the USA Today bestseller list, which totally means the world to me. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Hey guys, it's Kathy Heller. Welcome back to the Kathy Heller Podcast. I hope you had a great weekend. I posted probably the most liberating thing I've ever posted on Instagram yesterday and I'm going to do a whole episode about what I posted. So if you want a sneak peek, go look at the last reel that I posted yesterday and check that out because I gave some major life updates. So today I'm really thrilled because I'm having a conversation with my friend Amy Porterfield. And if you don't already know Amy, she really is so brilliant. She knows so much about the whole space of business online marketing. She's been doing this for more than 16 years. She's taught over a hundred thousand students and I was actually a student of hers in 2016. She's built 120 million dollar business, most of it from two signature courses. How crazy is that? And I was one of her those students, as I said, in 2016. And she taught me Something that really actually transformed my life. And we're going to talk about that whole journey in this conversation. Plus, she's going to share why she still creates course courses even in this new era, and how you could make an incredible living with less than a hundred people that know you. We're going to talk about how to overcome doubts, how that creeps in, and how to let fear and failure actually be a guide to clarity. If you want to learn more about Amy after this, well, there's good news. She's doing a bootcamp next week. It's called Course Confident, and she's going to walk you through the exact steps and strategies to structure and validate what would be an amazing course idea. And it will be an epic experience. And she really is the expert at this stuff. So if you want to sign up, you can go to kathyheller.com Amy and Kathy's with a C. Kathyheller.com Amy go check that out. In the meantime, make sure that you check out her podcast. It's now the rebranded Amy Porterfield Show. She has conversations about how to create sustainable scale in your business and actually enjoy your life. It's an incredible resource that she's providing, and it's crazy how much value and knowledge she gives out on her podcast for free. Amy is not just brilliant at strategy, but she's truly very willing to be so genuine about all things in her life. And she's really a good example of what's possible when you build something with integrity and heart. And I'm really blessed that she's here today. I know you're going to soak up so much wisdom. So without further ado, let's welcome Amy Porterfield.
- [03:46]
B
Amy Porterfield, I love you. You have played such a massive role in my life without really knowing that you're doing this. You are so equally genuine and loving and caring as you are, like, so freaking brilliant. And you're, like, so in your hottest glow up era. And I'm so here for it. It's really just so great to see you feeling great. It's awesome. You deserve all of that. Okay, before we get into okay, what you're a master of, I want people to, like, just have a sense of how relatable and human and adorable and silly you are. So I'm going to ask you questions I didn't even prepare you with, but I was just curious. Okay, these are the. I'm just curious, like, what's your favorite snack? What's the last good book you read? And, like, if you have Free time. What do you like to do that's not productive? Not about work.
- [04:46]
C
Okay. So my favorite snack is white cheddar popcorn. I could eat it every single night. Love it. But don't get me wrong, I like the sweets too. So, like, give me some ice cream and I'm all about it. My husband is not a sweet eater, so that really bothers me. I think something's wrong with him.
- [05:03]
B
Can't share it.
- [05:04]
C
Yeah, you're like, let's get some ice cream. He's like, no, thanks. And then I don't want to do it. So it's not fun.
- [05:09]
B
Right? You're like, how do you pass on the sweet thing? Okay, fine, we'll just go with that.
- [05:13]
C
Yeah, I'm questioning our marriage at this point. As for reading, okay, so I read a lot of business books and all of that, but in the summer, a good summer romance is my favorite. So anything that is on the beach or in Nantucket.
- [05:29]
B
Or Nantucket.
- [05:31]
C
Just all the little beach reads are my favorite. They're not deep at all. And I'm an audible girl because I do a lot of research and reading for business and stuff. So if I want to have some fun and it's audible and it's playing in my ear like all the time when I'm multitasking.
- [05:45]
B
So I love that. Have you read One Italian Summer by Rebecca Searle?
- [05:50]
C
No, I haven't.
- [05:51]
B
Oh, you're welcome.
- [05:53]
C
Okay.
- [05:53]
B
You're welcome.
- [05:54]
C
Yeah, One Italian Summer. Okay. I have to remember that one.
- [05:56]
B
It has all the things it's in. It's set in like southern Italy and Positano. It's romantic, it's got time travel. It's so good.
- [06:04]
C
I'm gonna. That's the last read I'll do before fall. Done. Oh, right.
- [06:08]
B
Love that. You're such a Take action like, and it's done. What's a recommend that you have for us that's like just an easy cash romance?
- [06:19]
C
I have it right here. I loved it. So there's this like three part series that I'm just loving Abby Jimenez. That's who wrote it. And one of the books is say youy'll Remember me. But there's three in that. You have to find the 3 series. But one of them is say youy'll Remember Me. I have loved it. And I'm not going deep, everyone. So don't be like, well, that was a little surface. That's the point. There's sex, there's love, there's beaches.
- [06:44]
B
I love this side of you. Right Now. Okay, so I'm also going to go. We're going to trade. I'm going to go check that out. Okay. And then if you don't have to do something work related and you just have free time, what's your favorite thing to go do?
- [07:00]
C
Okay, my favorite thing to go to right now. I'm really into. There's this beautiful walk. I live in Nashville, and there's this beautiful, beautiful walk that I can take Scout, my dog, off his leash, and we just go for like an hour. That is one of my most favorite things to do. It's starting to get a tiny bit cooler now, which even makes it better. So I love that. But I'm also like a Netflix girl. I like to watch all the series and things like that too. But to get out of the house. It's a really good Nashville walk.
- [07:29]
B
I feel like walking is so underrated. Like, to me, it's like, it, I walk home to myself. I feel like I, I, it's like a beauty bath. I feel like the second I take my first 10 steps, I remember how mystical the universe is. It's so fast and it's so satisfying and it costs nothing.
- [07:49]
C
Nothing. I have a, like, an amazing doctor, and he tells me it's the best form of exercise. Walk, walk, walk, walk, walk. And I was like, you got it.
- [07:57]
B
I love that. Okay, now we're going to go into some of, like, the, the things that I'm also super curious about that you've been up to business wise. So you did something massive, which is you changed your whole podcast direction.
- [08:11]
C
Yeah.
- [08:12]
B
And I was just like, yes, queen. Like, I am so here for this. You went from specializing, really focusing, which was so generous because you, you used to give, and you still do, but you gave so much value in your business. Podcast about online marketing. And I used to be like, if this is what she gives free, I cannot. I used to literally sit and take notes. And I love. I have to just say it. I've told you every time we, we talk. I love how you teach. You are so easy to learn from. It's like step by step. You have this, like, lovely, like, bell in your voice where you're just always so enthusiastic and you make me want to, ooh, what's a funnel? Oh, okay. What's a freebie? And I'm like, usually, like, so bored out of my mind. I'm such a C student, so I love that. But then this year, no, ma'. Am. This year is something different. So now it's like the Amy Porterfield podcast. Like, why did you do that now?
- [09:09]
C
Okay, so you're right. Since 2013, I've had online marketing made easy, and I loved it, and it did really, really well. However, I just had something on my heart that I wanted to start having some more elevated conversations. I talk to women a lot, but the gentlemen are always welcome. But to talk about what it looks like for us to uplevel, get off the sidelines, do big things in our business. So it's still a marketing podcast. We still talk about marketing, but the conversations are deeper and more elevated so that I can get women to keep moving forward. And I'm just obsessed with that. I'm obsessed with women making money and unapologetic about it. And so that's my mission.
- [09:52]
B
I love that. And I have always seen in you because it's so obvious what a reflective, deep human being you are. And so I always felt like, okay, at some point, she's going to be the thought leader in, like, the global space in terms. Because, look, compliment. Well, it's true. I mean, you and I have been in this business, you even longer than me. But where we have those of us who have any reputation worth its salt, I think you can separate very quickly people who are real and super full of substance from people who just figured out how to go viral for a minute. So I knew from day one that you were, like, the girl I would have been friends with in seventh grade who's really kind and wants really, you know, to do as much for others as you've done for yourself. And it takes so much fricking courage. And I've also watched you really openly share about things that you've gone through internally, like battles you've fought. And I thought, eventually she is gonna. Because it's one thing to look at someone's success and be like, oh, so that's very linear, right? It's very much happening on a strategic level. Well, we. We know that. It's also very much happening in the inner world. And if you've mastered any version of success, it's because you slayed your own dragons. And doesn't mean you don't have more to slay. But it's so obvious that at this point, you're ready to, like, play chess in a different.
- [11:30]
C
I feel it.
- [11:31]
B
Yeah, yeah, I.
- [11:32]
C
Bring it on.
- [11:33]
B
I freaking love that. Okay, so now to go focus more into the world that you really brought me into, which was course creation. I mean, it completely changed my life. And I really love being one of your best students because I'm so not the person people would assume was that person.
- [11:50]
C
Well, you're an A plus student in my book, my friend.
- [11:53]
B
Thank you so much. No, like, so wasn't like went to Florida State on academic probation. I'm so allergic to doing hard things. Like I. And then I met you. And again, I think because words from the heart enter the heart. Like there was something about you where I was like, also, you don't remember this. I've told you. And you go, I did that. I was in your class in 2016 and you sent me a personal email with a video message because you wanted to make sure I love that I heard the answer and I was like, who does that? Who? And you were like, hope all as well make sure you're like, hey, Kath, you asked this question and I was like, okay, this person is so in integrity. So I want to do that. See, that's the thing. I was like, you know when you go on YouTube and there's like a guy in front of a jet and he's like, come to my seminar. And you're like, no. Now then there's you. And so you have been in this space for a while and I'm curious because I feel like there's a lot of like gremlins talking about how courses are dead and there's a trust recession and you can't sell courses anymore. But you and I have a different experience. So. But I want to know from you, as I do believe you are like the, the, the expert, what's your take on the landscape in terms of like, is it still an okay time to create a course? And it's still, is it still a viable thing to sell a course?
- [13:16]
C
I love this question. So courses have changed over the last year, especially with AI, the course world membership, world coaching, world, all of it. It has changed. However, when we talk courses, it's not just changed, it's evolving. And if you've waited to create a course, if you thought about it forever, you've been on the sidelines, I feel like you might have made a really great choice because now you have this opportunity to get in a game that truly has more heart. And here's what I mean. So gone are the days that you could just throw a bunch of information into a digital course and this has been shifting over the last few years. Even so, it's not enough just to have information. Now we can chat, GPT just about anything want and get a step by step list. So if that's the case, then why would people Spend money on a course. What you can't get out of ChatGPT is a point of view. Someone's experiences, their stories, the nuances of how they did something and how they got to the finish line. So now it's all about an implementation framework and community and accountability. So information's free. An implementation framework. Accountability support becomes priceless. And I feel like this is going to hit home with your audience specifically because they are big hearted, passionate people. You get to breathe your experiences, stories, life into these courses and people want to learn from you. When you said trust recession, you're right, people are less trusting. So when you show up in the most human way, you guide people along the way, you invite them into your world, you are going to rise to the top in the course creation world. And I was just talking to a friend of mine and we were saying, okay, this is happening now. So if you stay on the sidelines anymore, a year from now, now you're just going to be catching up. But because this is happening now, you get to jump in it now and kind of mold it and how it might look for you.
- [15:11]
B
First of all, this is exactly what I mean when I say you give so much information away for free that I can't believe what you teach in a course. What you just said, I've not yet heard anyone say that, but that is gold. That makes so much sense. It's not about information as much as it's about implementation. And what's interesting is that as your student, I guess it's nine years ago maybe. Yeah, nine years ago, I used to say that you could get information in other ways. But I was here for transformation.
- [15:48]
C
Yes, yes.
- [15:49]
B
And I do think that's why. And I actually really felt like I got that from you because you took so much investment in your students. Like you would do. These Q&As answer every single question. Remember I just said you wrote to me. And I remember feeling so overwhelmed with the idea of starting a course before I met you. And then you were like, yeah, I'll stand beside you as you're like going through it. And it's like one thing to read a Marie Kondo book. It's a totally different thing if somebody comes to your house and says, like, we're just going to go through one drawer at a time, you know, and we all have cookbooks, but why don't we actually apply them? Because implementing something is very different than having the information so true.
- [16:35]
C
When you make a connection with someone, you're like, I want to learn from her, she's gone before me. She's willing to share everything she's learned. I trust her. So that's where the. The success, the transformation really happens.
- [16:47]
B
So I feel like one of the things that people really struggle with before they even get to that place is it's just rampant, the amount of imposter syndrome. Like, I really feel like 90 of what I do is to try to, like, wake people up to the fact that, like, God has assigned you with something that's so worthy. And it's just, like, so hard for people to feel as though they have any credibility to teach anything. So tell us what you see that maybe they don't see in terms of what's possible, why they might be able to create a course, even if they're not a PhD in psychology or whatever it is.
- [17:25]
C
Yes. So a few things I want to touch on. I have taught this for years and years that you really only need a 10% edge. What I mean by that is you need to be 10% ahead of those that you serve. And Even just being 10% ahead allows you to really understand where they are going, because you just were there. So you've been in the trenches, you know what it feels like, and you're saying, hey, come along. I actually have a framework. I've done it myself. I want to teach you how to do it. So with the 10% edge, you don't need to have taught millions of people before you sell you. You just need to have gotten results for yourself or for somebody else, and you can put that framework together. Now the imposter syndrome comes up. But who am I to be teaching this? I don't have certifications. I haven't gone to college. I didn't learn this professionally. I've taught myself.
- [18:13]
B
Great.
- [18:14]
C
Here's what I want you to know. When you look online, if you're being, like, really honest and no one's listening to you, and you're just in your head, you have clicked through somebody that does what you want to do. And I know you've had a moment to think I could do that better. I actually think I know how to teach that better, or I have better stories that I could share. I wish I could get in there. So, one, you know you have something in you. You don't need to go get it. It's already in you. You have the knowledge, the skill set, and the ability. And the second thing I want you to know is, if you don't do it, I promise you, someone with less experience will do it. But because They've gotten started. They will have the success that you will never see because you didn't just put yourself out there. Action creates clarity. I didn't have it all figured out with my first course. Kathy did not have it all figured out with her first course. As we went along, we're like, oh, this is what I need to do. Oh, that doesn't work. Oh, here's what I can do. So success will leave clues. Little tiny successes will get you there. So the imposter syndrome, you do it. Even though it's there, it doesn't really go away.
- [19:22]
B
Yeah, no, I mean, all of those things you should probably rewind and listen to again. And just to give you, like, for those of you listening who don't know this part of my story with Amy. So that summer, it was 2016, I was pregnant with my third daughter. It was July, it was very hot. We didn't have air conditioning in Los Angeles at the time. We lived in this, like, old Spanish house. Actually, we bought the house from Fred McMurray's daughter. Fred McMurray was on my three sons. Really cute, 2100 square foot old Spanish house and no air conditioning. Great. So I am taking your class at the time. And she was due September, and she was born a little early September 7th. She's. Her birthday's almost here.
- [20:05]
C
Yeah.
- [20:06]
B
And it was July, and I had only gone through the first two modules.
- [20:10]
C
Of your course, what I love.
- [20:12]
B
And I was like. Because this is exactly what you were talking about. I was like, well, here's the thing. So I have this deadline because this baby's coming out, and then I'm going to be like, really in, like, the baby, you know, space for a minute, breastfeeding, not sleeping, all that. So I was like, what if I just did this totally imperfectly, like, just to try it as, like, my beta. Like, I'm going to have like. Like this literally. I'm going to do this for. For data, for feedback. So I decided that I'm going to do this like one live broadcast and kind of just like give myself a practice to just get that in before, you know, I finished the class because that was still a little while away. And I go live and I have this huge pregnant belly and I'm sweating and I don't look as hot as I do now. I'm joking. No, I really didn't. I was like, I was just having my own very real moment. And I was telling people about what I did at the time, which was I used to write music for film And TV shows and ads. I had been a songwriter. I had gotten dropped, and then I had a lot of songwriter friends who were like, I guess we have to go sell insurance or be a barista. And I was like, well, you could sell a song to Grey's Anatomy. You could do this. You could do this. You could write a song for Old Navy. And I decided to start a course about that. So I go live, and I don't have any slides, and I'm, like, looking at my notes, but also kind of just telling my story and again, expecting just to kind of, like, test the waters. And I was selling the class for 997, I think, because your class at the time, I don't know, there was, like, a suggestion in my brain that that was a good price, and 147 people bought it.
- [21:49]
C
I mean, come on.
- [21:51]
B
At the end of the hour, my first time out the gate, and I was like, did I just. I was looking at the. The Sam cart come in, and I was like, did I just make $147,000? Because. What?
- [22:04]
C
Yeah.
- [22:04]
B
And I literally kept checking. Is that. Is it a glitch? Is it. No, it's real. And so I, like, start the class. And all the class was at the time was like, once a week, we'll meet on Zoom. This is before people really use Zoom. And that was my class. And it was a year for a thousand bucks. And then, of course, I got better, and I launched it again four months after she was born. And then at that point, I decided to charge three grand for six months.
- [22:27]
C
Oh, yeah.
- [22:28]
B
441 people bought it.
- [22:30]
C
I forgot about that one.
- [22:32]
B
I know.
- [22:33]
C
Holy cow.
- [22:34]
B
And then one of my students in the class, this woman, Amy Loftus, she was, like, taking the class. She's like, you should start a podcast. You're so inspiring. And I was like, oh, should I? Okay, I'll start a podcast. So I actually started with you. I had no Instagram. I had no email. I know podcasts. My first entree into the. That's why I'm so happy that we went. We wound up connecting and eventually becoming friends. Because I'm like, no, no, I didn't have anything going. It was you. Okay.
- [23:02]
C
That is such an important thing. I want to stop for a moment. I want everyone to hear that. She didn't have Instagram, email, any of that. And she did it on Zoom. The scrappiness is what I love about this.
- [23:14]
B
And scrappy.
- [23:15]
C
My biggest takeaway from your story is your. Your expectations. You didn't say when I first did my course, I said, I want to make $100,000. I thought everyone else was making that kind of money. Why wouldn't I? $167 and then felt like a failure and almost quit. You said, let me give this a shot. Let me just bait it. Let me see what happens. That's a game changer.
- [23:39]
B
Thank you for acknowledging that. I honestly think, like, that is literally the essence of manifestation is like, when you're doing the thing for the reward of doing the thing, just watch out. Because that's when a lot of blessings, like, show up in your lap. And I think because I was a C student, I feel like you were probably an A student because you're.
- [24:01]
C
Yeah.
- [24:01]
B
You're just really together. Like. Yeah.
- [24:05]
C
Also a little neurotic, but yes.
- [24:07]
B
Okay. Yeah, they go together. It's okay.
- [24:09]
C
I always said, though, when I have kids, I'm not gonna demand the A's, like, get the season, have some fun.
- [24:14]
B
Yeah. I feel like you are one of those people who like, lets your friends be a hot mess. You just are very non judging. But you're also just like. I can definitely see you just being like your teacher's favorite. I was like, rolling into class, 20 minutes late, like, forgot my assignment, the dog ate it, whatever. So for me, I was just like, in a way, that was my. My gift to myself was like, I don't have any expectation to do anything out the gate. Right. So I'll just like, try stuff. And trying stuff has led me to a lot of cool things. And so. Yes. And then, you know, just through doing it, I just started then kind of running with it and really dialing it in. And so courses have made me millions and millions of dollars. And I mean, we're staying right now in the Hermitage hotel for a month. And we just flew. Yeah, we just flew. First class to, like, Lake Como. Stayed at the Mandarin. Like, my. I'm like, honestly, like 90% of how I make a living is through, like, everything I learned from you. So, like, my children should be running in here, like, thanking you, like, sending you, like, gifts every year. Yeah.
- [25:19]
C
I love you so much and you always make me feel safe, so. Good. Because I know whether it was me or someone else, it's you. And I know that. But just I appreciate the acknowledgment. And you're a star student, so I don't know what was happening in high school, but in this world.
- [25:35]
B
Thank you.
- [25:35]
C
Could you go back? You're mine. You're my favorite.
- [25:38]
B
I love you. So, you know What? I had a friend. This was so vindicating. She DM me on Instagram maybe, like, eight months ago, like, after the LA fire, she wanted to check in, which was really nice. I hadn't seen her since high school. And she's like, are you guys okay? Because we were evacuated and bubble, blah, blah, blah. And then we moved. We moved to Florida, away from the fires. Anyways, she DM me. And she goes, by the way. As we're, like, in conversation, she goes by the way. I ran into our high school English teacher, and she said to me, can you believe that Kathy Heller is so successful? And she goes. And I said, of course I can believe that. And I go, ashley, oh, my God, I'm so touched that I thought you didn't even like me in high school. And you defended me to her. And she's like, it's so. Of course your success. And it made me feel like, yes. It was like, what's that scene in Pretty Woman when she goes back and she's like, big mistake. Huge. Yes. Yeah. So. So you just did that for me in the biggest way. Yes. I love that, too, because for people who are listening, I know you want to put me on a pedestal. Please don't. Like, seriously, for reals. For reals. Like, if I can do even right now, I'm recording a podcast. There's no microphone, there's no headphones. Like, this is how I roll. I did this with Deepak. I did this with Matthew McConaughey. I am so allergic to doing it hard. I refuse. I can't do it.
- [26:57]
C
Yes, yes, yes, won't.
- [26:58]
B
And you can still be successful.
- [27:00]
C
Yeah.
- [27:00]
B
Okay, so now, speaking of being successful, I think that people have a lot of mythology around courses. Like, I could not begin to, you know, put a course together unless I have a hundred thousand followers until I have millions of podcast listeners. I mean, I know what my experience was, because you guys can go back through the archives. You can go all the way back and find out, I did not have an Instagram when I had already started my course. You can go back and see. I did not have a pot. Like, you can go. The Internet's so helpful. That way. You can actually go check that out. But people actually have a really hard time believing. Like, who would they think to themselves, who would come? Like, who would even know about it? So what do you have to say about that?
- [27:39]
C
So the first one, you totally hit it on the head. I don't have a big audience. I don't even have an email list. Well, first of all, Kathy just proved to all of us, you do not need to start with that. But I always tell my students, you do not need a big email list. And I show them proof. Like when I do webinars and bootcamps, I show them the students who had less than a hundred. Like, I have a student who. Her name was Kate, and she had a program. She started a course called the Editor Academy, and it was specifically to help people create digital magazines. So it was a very specific topic. She had six, 70 people on her email list, and right out of the gate, made 7,500 before she created the course. So she sold it before she created it, which is a strategy I teach my students. And then when she's like, oh, wait, people want this. 70 people on her email list. People want this. She went on to make $110,000 with that course. So. And this is one story out of many. You need a relationship with them. You want to start sharing your point of view, connecting with them, maybe doing that thing where if they ask a question, you send a video, like I did with Kathy. Like, when your audience is smaller, you can wow them.
- [28:47]
B
Yeah.
- [28:48]
C
Many years ago, and Kathy still remembers it. That just warms my heart. So there's things you can do like that. But, Kathy, there's also. So people think my email list is not a big enough. Take it off the table. You will grow your email list while you create your course. That is one of the things I teach all my students. But also some people will say, amy, it's too late. The market is oversaturated. Or what I want to create, it's already been created. But that's where we come back to that, right from the beginning, when we started talking, that it's a new era of digital courses. Number one, everything you want to teach has been done. So we don't even worry about that. No one does it quite like you, so you're good there. But also, information alone isn't selling. So do you know how many courses are going to drop off in the next 12 months? Because they're not paying attention to the fact that we need community and accountability and engagement and implementation. All the fun stuff of creating a course, they won't pay attention to that, or they are not willing to do it. Where you and me, we are, and your listeners, I know, would be willing to build beautiful communities around their courses. And so if you think it's oversaturated, just watch what happens over the next 12 months. You can rise to the top. I have no Doubt in my mind. And you don't have to do it with a huge course. One of my students, Jessica, she teaches families, not the moms families, how to declutter and organize a home. So she gets the whole family involved. But she didn't want a big course and to charge a lot of money, she just charged 47 bucks. 697 people later, because she had put herself out there. She has her own way of doing it. And she didn't worry that organization courses are a dime a dozen. But look what she did. The last thing I'll say about that is you need a tiny sliver of the Internet to pay attention in order for you to make a great living. Do you agree with that?
- [30:38]
B
I totally agree with that. I mean, I find it so ridiculous because we live in like Kardashian land, so people make that the standard. It's like, well, if I don't have 16 million people, why even bother? And I'm like, can you imagine if you had 112 cars show up at your house every Tuesday? Your neighbor would be pissed at you. She'd be like, yeah, I'm gonna call the hoa. Why are you. It's like we've lost all perspective. And so also for me, I feel as though there's the, the physical consciousness of what you think is linear. There's a spiritual consciousness. To me, it's like actually when I started the podcast, same thing that was saturated at that point, it felt like in 2017. And I was like, but if there's one human being whose life is different because I'm saying something that matters. See, people are always chasing the wrong thing. Like our favorite feeling is the feeling that we mattered. Like the feeling of contribution. And so you literally take yourself out of so much fulfillment because you're chasing this shiny object. I think Oprah said that. She's like, people are chasing success when they should be chasing significance. And to me, honestly, I think after, like just growing up, my parents, horrible divorce, like, some of the really hard things that I went through, like, you were so sweet, you reached out to me after my dad passed away, and one day we're gonna have a nine hour lunch about our dads. But I think that's true. Just going through what I've lived through, which people have lived through so many worse things. And it's not to compare. I'm just saying, I think I realized that, like, showing up is a whole love language. And I guess I'm not after the vanity metrics. I just, I literally just Want to feel like I go to sleep every night and I showed up for my assignment like I did. And I actually think, like, for what really matters to us when we take our last breaths. And I know this seems existential, but what the hell else are we doing here other than making the most of our time? I really think it's more like, was I the most courageous person I could be? And was I the most giving, generous person and people. And I'm sure you had this, like, my whole life, probably because this was the role I played in my family. People would say, like, when I'm around you, I feel like I could do anything. Like, you really encourage me.
- [33:14]
C
And I think that with you. So. Yes.
- [33:16]
B
And I feel that way with you, and I think that that's a lost art. I don't really think that's something everyone just has all the time. So whether you are a fitness instructor or you. I remember that amazing teacher you had. I loved her story that she was. She had a course where she taught people, like, second grade math curriculum.
- [33:37]
C
She's my VIP client now. She's.
- [33:39]
B
I'm obsessed with her.
- [33:41]
C
Her business is like 15 million now. And she started just like us.
- [33:45]
B
Like, she's like, from Long island or something. I'm from Long island.
- [33:49]
C
And she's incredible. Yeah, she's.
- [33:51]
B
She married to a fireman maybe. I know you are.
- [33:53]
C
Oh, my gosh. Good memory.
- [33:54]
B
Yeah, good memory. But, like, I just remember people like that who were like, I'm just gonna be in this for the right reasons and then just let the rest go, because that's God's business. I'm just gonna, like, just do the thing I'm supposed to do. And so this big audience thing or bust, like, you don't need to be Taylor Swift to literally go to sleep tonight and know that your enthusiasm, your heart, like, literally blessed another person. You're sitting on that gold. So. But yeah, also crazier things have happened. Like, stranger things have happened. I think the reason I had 147 people my first class, even though I didn't have an Instagram account, is because. And Jasmine, your bestie, she said something like this to me. I met her after. But one of the things that she and I were both doing, I was in a lot of Facebook groups at the time. As a songwriter.
- [34:40]
C
Yeah.
- [34:41]
B
So I had. My course was going to be on songwriting for film and tv, and I already had a little bit of a community not following, but I was a part of, like, a bunch of different songwriters, and I started telling them about that I was going to do this class. I didn't post a link because that was, like, against community rules. But I was already kind of like a friend to a lot of songwriters. And actually a lot of songwriters would be asking me, how'd you get that song in that McDonald's commercial? So I had a little bit of a friend group already where I was talking about it. And so when I went to do this, like, webinar, I would, like, I kind of just told everyone. And I also reached out to Hotel Cafe, which is a place in LA I used to perform, and I. This was kind of smart. I asked the guy James, who used to book all the songwriters, I'm like, do you have a list of songwriters? And he was like, yeah. I go, do you. Do you want to send them this link? Like. And I didn't know anything about affiliates at the time, but I was like. I was like. And then he said, well, can I take the course for free? I was like, sure. So in exchange for him, best deal ever. Because what I'm saying is your audience is somewhere, right? So I kind of was just thinking about that. Anyway, it grew from there. But I love that we are sort of deconstructing these myths because I think that fear is so boring, and it's such a liar. And then it takes you out of, like, doing the thing that you want to do.
- [35:56]
C
I love that you said fear is so boring.
- [35:58]
B
I think that's Donald Miller. I think he's the one who says that.
- [36:01]
C
It sounds really good.
- [36:02]
B
It's so good.
- [36:03]
C
So. So I really like that one. And, you know, speaking of fear, I was thinking some people are listening right now where they've actually tried a course, they've tried to put it together, they gave it a shot, and it didn't work. That's very normal, especially if you don't have a proven track record to follow or someone to guide you. But regardless, even if you did have someone to guide you in the first time out, it didn't work. Like me, I made $267 with my first course. The course was $297. But if I took. I got a few sales and I took out any expenses, I didn't make any money. And so one thing I want you all to hear is fear is often the first step to clarity. So I would not be here today with $120 million business creating and selling courses if that first one didn't work out. Because now I knew what didn't work and what I did wrong. And so I could go on to the next place. And I had beautiful friends and family to support me because I wanted to quit and cry all day. So failure again. I'm saying again, failure is really the first step to clarity. It will give you your next step. But the reason why many of you feel totally stuck right now, like, I don't know what to do, I don't know where to start, is because you haven't taken a step. And the clarity is never going to come if you don't. So that part, the fear, is what keeps people from taking the step. But little do they know, that step.
- [37:22]
B
Is where the clarity is 100%. I mean, I remember going home from the hospital with my first daughter. I was like, they want me to keep her alive. What the hell? Like, I never babysat. I've never changed a diaper, truly. I was like, this is insane that they're giving her to me, you know? And now I have three of them, and they're amazing. And you figure it out as you go. Like, okay, so you have a boot camp coming up. And tell us a little bit about what is the big transformation that people can get if they sign up for this bootcamp. Like, what's within just those few days of being with you. What are you hoping people walk away with?
- [37:59]
C
Well, funny as you ask that now, because number one is clarity. What I just was talking about. I want you to walk away with clarity. So if you've ever thought about creating a course but you just don't know where to start or you've had some false starts, it's called course confidence, and it essentially is going to help you kickstart your first digital course. And by kickstart, I mean make the core decisions that you need to make that will start your momentum from how to choose a topic that will actually sell, how to validate that idea so you don't create a course that nobody buys. How to price the course so you and I can pitch and catch around course math, where if you price your course, I'll teach you how to do it in the bootcamp. Now we can start playing with some numbers to see what's. What's possible. Because a lot of people create a course because they want to let go of something else that they're doing, maybe one on one, work their nine to five, whatever that might be. So I'll show you what the math can look like once you decide on the price of your course. Also, we'll talk about the transformation that you're going to promise it could be tiny. It could be huge. Somewhere in the middle. I'll help you figure that out. And then how to build an audience while you're creating your course. These are live trainings I'm doing inside the bootcamp, and it's essentially about a week, so it goes by really fast. I'm live every day. I do four live trainings. You will walk away with confidence, clarity, and the kickstart to actually get going.
- [39:19]
B
So little fun fact over the last nine years, whenever you're watching something, I watch it because I'm learning something every single time. Every single time. And so if you're listening to this, that is a great use of your time, and we will give you the link. One thing that I also want to add is that one of my favorite things that I learn is just watching you be you. You are so loving and lovable. You break the fourth wall all the time. You'll be like, oh, my God, I just ate corn flakes. Or like, here's my dog. Or it's like you're literally hanging out in the living room, except you look fabulous. But it's like you're just so you. And watching the way that you weave together, you do this all the time. Like, today, I didn't tell you what questions I was going to ask. You're not scripted, but you're so eloquent that you just make it really easy to listen to you. And yet it's not scripted. But there is a way in which you weave in the very helpful, tangible things with so much frickin mindset. I sometimes don't. Like, I know you. You did work for Tony Robbins at one point. But I'm like, that is very much a super skill that you have. Like, I know how strategic and helpful you are. And also, like, you break through people's mindset blocks, which you're doing them both. So if you're listening to this and you like to walk out on the other side feeling so much more like yourself, so much more confident, so much more of what's possible. I highly recommend going to the bootcamp. And I just want to also add the. The things that you just said, you get done in the boot camp again. So I always say about you, the fact that that's just in the boot camp alone, like, that's a lot of information. There's a lot of wins that people can get just from doing the boot camp, which I love that you do that, because I feel like a lot of times at smoke and Mirrors, people go to a boot camp they're like, been there, done that. This person's talking around stuff. They're not actually. Your boot camps are different, and I'm just. I really want to acknowledge you for that.
- [41:30]
C
I love you so much, and I appreciate you saying, though. So I'm really proud of what we created, and I know whoever signs up, it's 47 bucks, so it's one of the cheapest things I offer all year. I only do it once a year, and I do this live, so we record it for you if you sign up. But still, it has that great live component. And I appreciate you saying that because I. I love seeing the light bulbs go off in this boot camp. I love seeing people get started for the first time. So it's a labor of love for sure. And having your community in there will make it so much better. So thank you for talking about it.
- [42:01]
B
Of course, one of the things that you have talked about is, like, helping people before they even get to the boot camp. Like, is there anything that they would need to be ready to be in the boot camp? Like, do they need to have an idea of what their skills are? Should they have validated a course? Like, great question. What would make them ready to even take the boot camp?
- [42:23]
C
Absolutely. Just a curiosity for courses. Like, we're gonna take all of that off the table. You don't have to have anything ready to get into the bootcamp. My style of teaching is step by step. I don't assume you know anything around course creation or marketing or anything like that. So we're just gonna start where you're at now. If you have some ideas, I love that. Or how about from now until we start the bootcamp, start thinking about, like, what might I love to create? What am I good at? What's my 10 edge? What do I know that maybe not everybody does know? And just have fun with it. Maybe come with a loose list, and then I'm going to teach you how to narrow it down.
- [42:59]
B
I love that answer because I think people often, like, take themselves out of things because they always think they're not ready. And what I find is, like, I'll finish having dinner with someone, and they never considered a podcast before, but now they're just going to start one because I've, like, shown them how fun it is, how cool it is. And so I think so many amazing possibilities open up just by learning from someone who's been doing something so well for so long. So I would highly suggest it's a good use of your time to just kind of be in that environment and hang out with you. I feel like there's a lot of people listening to my podcast who have heard all different kinds of ways of being profitable. And I'm curious if you would just as we're. We're kind of signing off the next few minutes, but what would be your take on creating courses versus memberships versus, like, putting it all into, like some kind of, like, affiliating. Like, there's a lot of things that are floating around and I'm just curious why you think betting on a course might be a good use of time.
- [44:04]
C
I love that you asked this because I love all those other strategies too, and I've done some of them. But here's why I always come back to courses. The secret to a successful course creator is that she creates the course and then she does a rinse and repeat. She continues to launch it over and over and over again. And each time she launches it, she gets better at talking about it, her marketing, her messaging. She might rerecord the course because she's learned things along the way from her students. But courses are not a one. And then you move on to something else. If you stop reinventing the wheel and starting from scratch, you will enjoy creating a business so much more. And you will have more freedom because the hard work's done once. So I'll teach you how to do the hard work and create it and launch it. But then after that, it gets easier and easier and easier. Like I said, I've had the Same course since 2019. Every year it's gotten bigger. I make it better every year. I breathe new life into it. But it's the same course I created many, many years ago. That is why I love courses so much.
- [45:06]
B
I also think we live in a time where we need connection. And one of the things that you do in your courses, which you also teach, is like, you show up in there, you know, there's like a real mentorship happening, which is what I said earlier when you sent me that video. I think that you can go buy videos or you can go to the store and buy a book, but there's something in life about how much we collapse time when we have somebody with us teaching us things. And I think people just take for granted the wisdom that they have and the way that that could, like, save a person years. Because you're showing up because you teach it that way. I'm just curious, looking back, because you've had so much experience, what is one thing that, looking back, you learned that you now do differently when it comes to creating courses.
- [46:02]
C
Back in the day, for many, many years, I would make these courses that the videos were so long and so in depth and back in the day, that's what everyone did and everyone watched them. Now in the last few years, shorter is better. So let's say you want to share something. It's going to take an hour to teach. That's fine. But let's break it down into 10 minute videos. People need to learn quickly, they want something fast, and they want to feel like they're getting through it quickly. So now today I make a lot shorter videos and I teach my students how to do this as well. It does get people to the finish line faster.
- [46:38]
B
I agree. Same. We even see that with podcasts. We'll throw in like a 15 minute episode and that's the one saying, like, you really don't want to listen to me talk for 16 hours straight. Okay, so as we're kind of closing, you know, this show has really evolved over time, as a lot of things do. And we always talk about, you know, we've had Jon, Kabat, Zinn here and we've had Deepak and here, and we talk a lot about, like, what are the practices that get you to feel like your nervous system is calm, you feel like, regulated. You feel like you can like drop in and just be relaxed and whole and a little bit, have more equanimity. So I'm curious for you. Like, look, there's definitely moments for all of us, we're just human beings, when it's like you're prepping for something or there's an expectation or you have to deliver something that you could definitely move into. Feeling a little bit of stress sometimes a lot of yeah. So what do you do? You clearly have been doing something to keep moving yourself back into whatever makes you feel a little bit of peace. So what is that for you?
- [47:38]
C
So I have two and one's super cringe. I'm just going to tell everyone right now, but it's a very true one. So I have a husband who really never gets stressed. I don't know what's going on with him. He's got just a great demeanor, fun to be around, always, just a cool guy. And so his nervous system is always regulated. So sometimes he's on the couch and I'll lay really close to him and I'll say, regulate me. And we just like kind of breathe together. And I swear to you, it works. So I know that's cringy.
- [48:06]
B
I think it's Beautiful, actually. And it makes so much sense. I've often said, I think I, I don't know where I read it, but I've repeated it a million times. The most powerful person in the room is the most present person. And it's like that kind of. You're not impressed by someone because they went to a good college or they like drove a nice car. You're impressed from their nervous system being like such an anchor.
- [48:27]
C
That is so true. Yes. And, and I don't have that. And so he helps me with that. And then on my own, it's breath work. I've learned breath work over the last year. It's helped immensely. I have a dear friend, Mary Hyatt who taught me and so I. That has been helping a lot. And, and I'll do it. Find YouTube videos for it or whatever it might be.
- [48:47]
B
Yeah, my friend Samantha Skelly, shout out to her. I've done breath work with her a bunch of times. And she also has the best playlist. It's always some, like, I'm Jewish, but it's always some Christian artist that makes me weep. Like Laura Daigle. Like I'm like with breath. And then you're. And I'm just like, oh my goodness. Like the amount that you can shed, that you've been holding, that you do not have to hold. We also have to have a whole conversation because I don't know if you've been there or not, but I went to on site five years ago and yes, I have. It totally changed my life. And on the flight back without even knowing this was happening, I was like a different person. And when I got back, my business had a full next level up level. It's like you wouldn't think that that's the correlation that you're gonna just open up so much more abundance because you take a week off, leave your phone and.
- [49:44]
C
Yes.
- [49:45]
B
But I learned whatever happened there has stayed with me to like there's just so much bandwidth I don't expend anymore, which allows me to just enjoy it. Like I could just have fun. And, and that's the last thing I was going to ask you is like I. People say to me all the time, oh my God, but how do you launch when you. And I'm like, oh no, no, I like it. Like I came back from on site, I was like, oh no, I like it. I'm not here to prove myself. I'm not here to be impressive. I'm not here. I'm, I'm, I'm just going to be here. And, gosh, do people appreciate when you. You're just there, right? And I'm just curious if you want to, because I think a lot of people feel like, well, if I have a course, it's eventually I have to launch a course. And that is not something I'm up for. So what's your take on when you have to go, quote, unquote, offer it, sell it, pitch it? Like, how can you offer that and spend time doing that without that feeling like it's a really overwhelming task?
- [50:49]
C
I love this question because I've been talking about it a lot this year. You gotta find a way to do it your way. So let's pretend that I show you all the ways you can launch and I'll show you the webinars, the funnels, whatever, and you learn that I love when someone is. Wants to learn from a guide, but then you ask, but what's really truly me? So I have a student that she learned everything about how to launch and create a course for me. And then she said, you know what, Amy? I don't want to do it that way, but I love the concept. I'm going to create these little videos that I'm going to tease out for the next two weeks. Something I didn't even teach her how to do, but it was her and so she was more willing to do it. She was scared to get in front of the camera, but this felt right to her. So know yourself. While you're learning from a mentor, do it your way. I promise you, launching does not become a chore. It's become something you can enjoy.
- [51:40]
B
That's exactly how I feel. And I'll just say that I. One of my biggest launches was literally during the fire. We were evacuated. It was January, right? January, like seventh or eighth it started. And I had already planned like this, like New Year's launch. And I don't actually. What was the date of the fire? It was right around then. It's all literally a blur. So we got evacuated and we went down to San Diego. We were staying in my friend's ranch. Thank God, bless her family. She took us in for 10 days. And I told my audience, they were so loving. I was like, I might not be able to deliver this boot camp because people were like, no problem. I was like, I'm in la da da da. And then I was like, what if it actually felt good to me? And so I went on and each of the days, sometimes I cried. One day I wrote a love letter to Los Angeles and just Shared it because, like, for all the, like, you know, pros and cons of any city like LA has, I could cry. I think it's given me, like, it's made so many of my dreams come true. And every place has its flaws, but it's just. It's such a magical place, and California is such a magical place. And I knew that the whole world hurt, like, California was hurting, and just like we do wherever. But there's something really that the terrain itself, like, it's. It's such an expander. It's so special. It's like you can see why Walt Disney, like, could see so far here, you know? So, anyway, my point is, I was totally myself, and then, like, it was a huge launch, and that was really a testament to, like, people actually, like, are really willing to love you and what you think is your, like, most horrible, mediocre, like, actually, maybe. No, like, actually, people are like, wow, I was so moved. I didn't know this is what we were gonna do, but this was so authentic. So I just wanted to say that I.
- [53:36]
C
That's what I mean by do it your way. Show up fully in yourself. Be yourself, and I promise you this thing, this will work. But you have to be willing to show up.
- [53:48]
B
Yeah. Showing up. Okay, so speaking of showing up, you guys can go to kathyheller.com Amy. That's a great way to just go ahead and sign up for the bootcamp. Please also go follow her podcast if you're not already. Tell us, like, where's the best place to get the whole view of all things you that they can go follow?
- [54:06]
C
So amyporterfield.com or. Yeah, the Amy Porterfield Show. I share it all, the good, bad, and ugly. So that might be a fun place to connect as well.
- [54:13]
B
I love that. Thank you for just. You're so consistent in being such a gem.
- [54:21]
C
Thank you.
- [54:22]
B
And you're so consistent, like, of course, in the busyness of all things. And we live in different states. Like, you still reach out to me. When my dad died, I could count on a hand, like, how many people in, like, colleagues, whatever you want to call us. I'm like, of course Amy reached out to me. Like, she's so just like, those are the things I want people to know about you.
- [54:45]
C
Thank you, my friend. I love you so much, and I so appreciate you having me on your special show. So thank you.
- [54:51]
B
Oh, my gosh, it's the best. Okay, guys, you're gonna go to kathyholler.com amy and you're gonna go and Tell me seriously, go and DM me afterwards how much you've learned. And yeah, just can't wait to see the infinite possibilities that happen when people are in your midst.
- [55:06]
C
Yes. All right, I'll see you all there.
- [55:09]
A
Okay. How awesome is Amy? Here are the takeaways. Number one, Information is free, but an implementation framework, a community, accountability and support are priceless. Number two, when you show up in the most human way and you guide people along the way and invite them into your world, you are going to rise to the top. Number three, you really only need a 10% edge. You only need to be 10% ahead of those that you serve. Number four, you know that you have something in you. You don't need to go get it. It's already in you. Number five, Action creates clarity. Little tiny successes will leave the clues to get you there. Number six, the essence of manifestation is when you're doing the thing. For the reward of doing the thing, just watch out, because that's when a lot of blessings show up in your life. Number seven, you only need a tiny sliver of the Internet to pay attention in order for you to make a great living. And number eight, show up fully as yourself. This will work, but only if you're willing to show up. Thank you so much for being here. I am so clear that you have a zillion things on your plate, so it just means so much that you're listening. If you want more episodes, please make sure you follow us on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you're listening. And if you're enjoying these episodes, please leave us a review. I read them. I love reading them. And in fact, I've been reading some on the show and I'll read one right now. Truth at Work. Kathy is so honest, kind, authentic, and radically loving in her expressions of how we can all access an abundant life. All of her experiential learnings are available to each of us right now, without exception, and she so generously gives. Oh my gosh, that is so sweet. Thank you so much. If you haven't left us a review, it only takes a minute and you might just hear me reading your review on one of the podcasts. And finally, we extended the bonus discount for my podcast program because of Labor Day weekend. Some people wanted to join it this week and they were away and they missed it. So if you want to join my podcast program, you can get 250 off. Go to kathyheller.com join and sign up before Tuesday at midnight to get the discount. This is the last time I'm teaching this course live. I'm not going to be teaching this again. But if you want to go through 12 weeks with me and I'll be teaching you about podcasting, you can jump in@kathyheller.com join if you have any questions, you could DM me on Instagram. I'm happy to answer. I love you so much. I'll talk to you soon and.