← Everything Is Energy with Cathy Heller
Everything Is Energy with Cathy Heller
The Awakened Brain: Dr. Lisa Miller on Neuroscience, God, Synchronicity, and Healing
01:10:43
A powerful conversation with Columbia professor and bestselling author Dr. Lisa Miller on the neuroscience of spirituality—how your brain is wired for God, why spiritual practice transforms mental health and emotional healing, and how synchronicity, intuition, and higher consciousness can rewire your life.
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- [00:00]
Kathy Heller
Imagine waking up and realizing that this life that used to feel like some distant possibility is now just your regular life. No more chasing, no more someday. Just you fully living your best era. It's time to step into your most abundant Life. This coming August 2nd and 3rd. Join me live in Los Angeles for a two day summit that is not just a conference. It's an identity shift in real time. We're talking about the audacity to have it all the time, to love every second of it. We're talking about Kabbalah meets quantum physics insights, the energy alchemy and the secret truth that fun might actually just be the cheat code. My friends are gonna be there. Samantha Skelly, Craig Siegel, Mignon Francois, Rudy Ricksteins, Alyssa Nobrega. It's gonna be so much fun and we're gonna be doing some live coaching in the room. So you definitely wanna be there. Over these two days, you're gonna learn the energetics of wealth, the power of receiving without guilt, and how to stop the constant apologizing or wanting for more. Some things can only happen when we're actually together in the same room. This is going to be medicine. Whether you're looking for a new baseline of joy or your future self has already bought the ticket. The question is, are you coming? Secure your seat. Now go to Kathyhell.comSummit, august 2nd and 3rd in Los Angeles. Let's make the mystical practical. We'll see you there.
- [01:26]
Hey, it's Kathy Heller.
- [01:28]
Welcome back to Everything is Energy. Today's episode is incredible. I'm sitting down with my dear friend Dr. Lisa Miller, who is so extraordinary. She's not only a Columbia University professor and best selling author, but she's truly one of the most incredible human beings I've ever met. Lisa has spent decades studying what happens in our brain and in our bodies when we connect with God, when we connect with something bigger than ourselves. And her research proves we what so many of us have felt but couldn't quite say out loud because we didn't know it. We couldn't put our finger on it. But she has proven that we are literally wired for spirituality. We are wired and designed for this level of love that is bigger than us, for synchronicity and for guidance. She's been on the podcast before, but this time she was in town. So we sat down in studio, in person and we actually recorded it so you can watch it on the Kathy Heller YouTube channel. We're gonna have a deep conversation today about our spirituality, about our brain and what it looks like and how you never are actually alone. How imagination and intuition are really antennas for divine downloads. And how a spiritual life can change your health, it can change your well being, and it can change your sense of purpose. This episode is so rich. I highly recommend that you sit down with a pen and a notebook as you listen because you're gonna wanna take notes. Without further ado, let's dive in with the amazing Dr. Lisa Miller.
- [02:50]
Hey, guys, it's Kathy Heller. Welcome back to Everything Is Energy. I'm so excited, truly, truly so excited, because Dr. Lisa Miller is here. She's back. She's been on this podcast before and you know, every once in a while you're sitting in front of true greatness and that is what's happening right now in this room. And she's so humble that, as I say that, she is probably a little bit uncomfortable. Although it really is the truth, and I said earlier before we hit record, that the most impressive thing in the world is love. And I feel like you are one of the most loving people. And I'm not surprised that you have become such a giant in the world of research and spirituality because you are also so loving. And just as I finish this intro, I'll just say if you don't know Dr. Lisa Miller, maybe you've been living under a rock the last few years, but I understand that there's a lot of things out there and a lot of content. So just to give you a little bit about who she is, she has spent the last three decades wanting to understand and put real research to what it looks like on the inside. When we have a spiritual experience, what happens to our brain? What happens to our biology? How does that allow us into the next frontier of our consciousness, our wellness? What does it actually mean on a scientific level to be connected? And so it's really, really awesome work. I highly recommend that you go back and find her. On a million different podcasts, you can find the we'll link in the show notes to the first episode where she was here. But I'm so happy that you're here right now to listen in because this is such a treat and thank you so much for coming. I'm so happy that it just worked out that you were here while this is possible because you are traveling a lot and it's great to see you, Kathy.
- [04:44]
Dr. Lisa Miller
I'm so happy to see you again and I want to celebrate your extraordinary, bright spirit, your abundant heart, and the fact that you truly have a spiritually centered life. This work is very, very authentic and deep Running as you share it and live it. And it's such a joy to sit down together.
- [05:04]
Kathy Heller
Oh, my God. You're just. It's like an imaginary friend because you are like Tinkerbell. It's like you are Tinkerbell. And it's just so fascinating, right, because you are a professor at Columbia. You've been published in all these amazing journals, and yet you're the most delightful, loving, playful, light hearted person who. You would think from looking at your resume that you could be a very serious person or you could be the kind of person who walks into a room and everyone's intimidated. But because you are you and because you live and breathe what you've studied, of course you're just alive and you bring everything else to life. And that's just the coolest thing.
- [05:52]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So very generous and so sweet and kind.
- [05:55]
Kathy Heller
Okay, you've been published in so many journals about this. What does it look like? What does it mean? That we're actually wired and built as beings to have a connection with our creator.
- [06:07]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So just as we're all naturally physical and social and emotional beings, we are all naturally spiritual beings. And what that looks like if we look through the lens of an MRI study is that there are neuro circuits built into our brain at birth. Spirituality, which is our capacity not just to believe, but perceive the deeper nature of life, to be in a relationship with God. The higher power is inborn, hardwired, but it is one third inborn, meaning we are born from day one with circuits in our brain ready to perceive and receive a relationship to God. But at the same time, our natural spiritual awareness is 2/3 cultivated. So prayer and meditation, service and right action, how we speak to others and speak within ourselves. So much of the beautiful work you do, Kathy, to cultivate our natural spiritual awareness all weighs in to shape our birthright. So we've got to do our part. I mean, this is the ultimate gift we've been given, every one of us, but we've got to do our part.
- [07:18]
Kathy Heller
Oh, my God. I mean, I'm sitting here and I'm having the experience of. I'm hosting this podcast and, and I want to be able to ask her more questions. And I am so hypnotized by everything you say that I'm like, okay, I just want to sit and listen. Like, I'm just like, can I even have the capacity when you speak? Because you're so. It's like listening to jazz music. You are so connected to this wisdom that I am. It's like the law of entrainment I start to grasp it on a different level as you're speaking. And so I'm just having the awareness of like, okay, what a trip. I get to fully receive from you this gorgeousness. And then I need to like make sure that I am on high alert so I can also be in this guiding and leading as the listeners at home are saying, ask for the next thing. Ask her the next thing.
- [08:12]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Well, it is gorgeousness because it's God's design. It is breathtaking. Not because of the scientists. We just hold up a mirror on. All that research can do is witness, which is an extraordinary gift, a blessing to be able to witness. But we don't design it, we witness.
- [08:27]
Kathy Heller
Okay, let's talk about this research. Let's talk about this research because I think for a lot of people this is in the category of nice for you. That's very woo. But you have seen what makes it hard to unsee that we were designed, we were created. And when we have that spiritual capacity, which we all do, but when we unlock it, there is a dimension to our consciousness and there is a dimension to our biology that upgrades and upregulates. So help us understand why having a spiritual life is sort of the crown jewel of the human experience. And if we're not partaking in it, we're sort of missing out on what is available to us.
- [09:16]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Exactly. So first I'll give.
- [09:19]
Kathy Heller
You're like, yes, yes, exactly.
- [09:21]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So beautifully put. Our natural spiritual awareness is our greatest gift. Because when we look with open eyes, just as we all have a system to see light in the day and an acoustic system to hear music or the click of our heels, we, we all have a system to see the force and presence of God, our higher power. Whatever our word may be, Jesus, Hashem, Allah, the universe. We are born with the capacity to perceive the presence of a loving, guiding, always present creator. In the brain, there are circuits that move. And they're the same circuits for all people. Eight billion people on earth share three circuits. One is the ability to know, not just think, but feel deeply and be sure that we're loved. We are loved. We are so loved. Kathy, this is not just a nice idea. It's not Dr. Miller's favorite idea. In our brain there is a network, the bonding network. The same network that comes up online when we're held in our parents or grandparents arms. And when we feel the presence, when we feel the presence of God, our higher power, the bonding network comes up online and we know that we are loved when we engage our spiritual Awareness. We're never alone. We are absolutely never alone. Everyone can think out on me. I could be in a horrific situation, but nothing can break us because we are deeply loved. That's not an opinion. That is how we are built. To know the reality, the spiritual reality,
- [11:09]
Kathy Heller
that is so beautiful and makes me cry in the most beautiful way. I mean, because it feels like medicine to hear you say it. And what I want to add is that you were so generous, and you're like, you're so spiritual, and you practice this. And I want to give credit to my teacher, Rabbi David Aaron, because when people ask me, where does your knowing of God come from? Where does this faith come from? That is not just a belief, but it's like, wired in. First of all, I had love in my life, right? Growing up. I know what love feels like. But when I went to Jerusalem at 21, and I was not connected to religion or the word God, or a concept of a higher power, at that point, I met Rabbi David Aaron. And he said to me, and didn't just say to me, he shared with me. He gave me the gift of knowing that I was loved. And he said to me, you are a masterpiece. You're a piece of the master. You are someone. You are some of the one. And he added, in his very, like, beautiful, powerful, and adorable way, he said, if God had a refrigerator, your pictures on it, you are so loved. And then at one point, living in Jerusalem, I started to fall so deeply in love with God and so deeply in love with the fabric of the universe that I wanted to be the favorite kid, right? And so I started to become more religious. And some of it was coming from alignment, and some of it was coming from maybe trying to get the A with, you know, my Father in heaven. And at one point, I was wearing long skirts and wearing tights and wearing long sleeves because there is a portion of Jews living in Jerusalem that are very, very religious, and there's an externalization to some of those law. And I went to see Rabbi Aaron, and he said, I knocked on the door. He opened the door, he said, your light is out.
- [13:22]
Maddie
Wow.
- [13:23]
Kathy Heller
And we sat down on his mirpeset, which is his balcony overlooking the old city. And he said, what's happening? And I said, I want to do whatever is in the most service. And so I'm following every possible, you know, law that I can. And I'm doing all of these things. And he said to me, did you think I asked you to do that? Did you think I need you to do that? And he said, let me tell you something. Love is not earnable. You don't have to do anything to earn God's love. And he said to me this story. He said, when I was first dating my wife, I knew that I was probably going to ask her to marry me. And at some point I asked her a question. And I said, why do you love me? And she said to him, and he told me this, she said, I have no reason to. And at first he said, what an insult. You have no reason to love me. What kind of answer is that? And she said, if there was a reason, it would be the reason. I love, not you. Love is a gift. I love you. It's something I choose to do and I want to. And I never knew. Not only that love is not earnable, it's just a gift, it's just grace. But that God, my creator, loves me so unconditionally. And Rabbi Aaron said, cath, I know that you're in love with lighting Shabbat candles. I know that you're in love with prayer. But if you never did anything, just being you, you are like the firework show at the end of the Disney parade for God, like he is so in love with you, there's nothing you have to do. And the final comment I'll make is, he said, you know, when he had his first child and I've had this experience. I know you've had this experience. He said, I remember holding her in my arms and thinking, what could I have possibly done to earn this gift? What could I have done to earn one hand, just her face, her ears, nothing. That's grace. There's so much love, so much that we don't even realize. And he said, and if you knew how loved you are, you'd almost be embarrassed that all these moments have gone by where you didn't know that your creator was sitting there staring at you, loving you so much. And so it was the greatest gift of my life, the greatest gift of my life to know for certain at every deep aspect of my being that I have this creator who is always aware of me and who loves me, period. And that relationship is always available to me. And I could always pick up the phone and he's always there.
- [16:05]
Dr. Lisa Miller
And I will never be unloved.
- [16:07]
Kathy Heller
Yeah.
- [16:07]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So even if I make errors, even if I make mistakes. And similarly, love is non transactional. You are always loved. It is beautiful.
- [16:17]
Kathy Heller
Most people deeply at the core of their being do not know that. And so much of their life is them looking for things on the extreme External to fill that exact space. And so I want to ask you, if I was somebody who didn't know this, if I was somebody who hasn't seen the research, what did you learn inside of the research that helps, you know, on a scientific level, what you just said, from a science perspective, how have you seen that?
- [16:45]
Dr. Lisa Miller
The choice to love, the gift to love, is a practice, right? To tap in to God's infinite being, God's infinite love is a choice. I can tap out of it or I can tap into it. And when I choose habitually, you know, confronted with an annoying moment, confronted with perhaps a small betrayal or a large betrayal, confronted with something, I have a choice every single time to love. It doesn't mean I expose myself to harm. It means that knowing that I'm on a spiritual journey, those around me also are on a spiritual journey. So even when I feel harmed or crossed or betrayed, or even when I make an error, the worst experience in my life that I'm fully responsible for was hitting a deer on the road. I've never gotten over that. It was heartbreaking. I love deers. They're shamanic, they're spiritual. And a deer jumped in front of my car. Yes, it was an accident. Yes, I didn't see it coming, but I've never gotten over that. I prayed many times to God and to the spirit of deer to ask for forgiveness. And still to this day, I pray. And I have seen the deer now come back to our home. The animals know everything. And they know not just if we're perfect or not, but if we love them. If we love them. Animals have exquisite attunement as we come to think of the brain as really an antenna that receives love, that receives guidance. The brain is not really a factory that produces ideas. The brain is a conduit, an antenna to the universe. What God are you showing me now? What God are you revealing to me now? The synchronicities, the mystical experiences, the many forms in prayer, meditation of receptive perception that let us know we're loved, guided, and never alone. Loved, guided, and never alone. This is how we're built, and this is how all living beings are built.
- [18:53]
Kathy Heller
What you just said is such an incredible mic drop, and I want to understand it even better through your lens, the idea that the brain is an antenna. And I heard it said, and I think maybe you were the one who said this, that there were fmris done on monks and there was hardly any brain activity. I might be butchering this because a lot of the wisdom is not in the Mind, it's in the heart. And again, I might have totally butchered that, but I have heard, I think it was Zach Bush who's talked about how all the wisdom is in the field. And. And so often people around me, and we know if you're listening, you've been there, you're looping and spiraling in your head. You're thinking a lot. There's a lot of emphasis on thinking in the mind. But it sounds like what you just said is that the wisdom is not in the mind. It's actually using the antenna in the brain to get to a greater level of consciousness, which means the wisdom might not be in the mind, but. But actually using the brain to get to where the mind actually is, so to speak. And when we're looking for, let's say, you know, people say, let me think about that, or people are looking for, you know, what's my next move? Or a download, or we're trying to find an answer. What do you mean that there's an antenna versus is it just like somewhere in the mind, that if we study enough or we learn enough that our mind produces the answer? Is it coming from the mind or is it coming from somewhere else? And we. How do we access that antenna into the somewhere else?
- [20:30]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So, Kathy, a beautiful study was conducted by Achterberg. Achterberg worked in a community hospital in Hawaii. And what she noticed was that patients who were not getting better through traditional Western medicine were indeed showing tremendous improvement through their work with traditional, spiritually grounded Hawaiian healers. Now, this could apply to Hawaiian healers. It could equally apply to Siberian shamans or healers anywhere that work foundationally at a spiritual level. Achterberg's study was extraordinary. She welcomed traditional healers into one MRI and then into an entirely separate second mri. She welcomed the patient healer in one mri, patient in the other. As the healer started to do her or his traditional work, a consistent pattern came up on the mri, the healing pattern. What's remarkable is that within an instant, the identical pattern came onto the MRI of the patient located down the hall, often in another building. One thing, healing consciousness. My word would be spirit, God's presence. Sacred consciousness. One thing, sacred consciousness in two places, expressed materially through identical FMRI patterns. Healing consciousness is non local. But what really is the spiritual healer doing? And if you were to ask 100, perhaps 100,000 spiritual healers, not one would say that they are concocting sacred consciousness. Every healer from all traditions says they are hosting, welcoming, invoking, sacred presence, which they then Direct as ambassadors, as conduits to the patient. This is who we are to one another. We are ambassadors, we're conduits. It's so extraordinary who each and every one of us are born to be. Which is guides to show up as children, proxies hands of God and help each other along. How do we know what to do? I don't need to have all the answers. We are built as an open system to receive guidance, to receive sacred consciousness and then direct this love, this wisdom, this guidance towards one another.
- [23:02]
Kathy Heller
It's so incredible.
- [23:03]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Kathy, this is your day job.
- [23:05]
Kathy Heller
Oh my God, I love you. I'm just sitting here just so in awe. I'm like, I think I want to stop everything I'm doing and just follow you around and listen to you for the rest of time. Because it is like getting the blueprint to the universe and what you just said. The reason I started to cry is because I believe that the tears are our soul's recognition of truth. Like when we, when we see it and hear truth, it's beyond words. We just cry. It's like a. It's like a recognizing of something.
- [23:39]
Dr. Lisa Miller
That's true 100%.
- [23:40]
Kathy Heller
I'm with you. Yeah. And what you just said about this unbelievable study which showed this non local capacity to heal. And that's what we do. You know, we just came out of celebrating Passover and one of the things that's so beautiful I just read is that there were these makos, which is another word for plagues, right? And people know the story of, you know, how the Israelites came out of Egypt. There were 10 plagues and. And then the sea split, okay? So there was this big miracle. And what I was reading was saying that part of why all of that happened was to bring down the knowing that actually nothing works through cause and effect. And there are no laws of the natural world. It's all mystical. Everything's a miracle that we were supposed to start to understand. No, no, this is the way it goes. The sea is always splitting, so to speak. It's always happening on the level of mystical consciousness. And it's like that saying, those who don't believe in magic will never find it. Right? It's. We are so married to the idea that things have to be hard. And we're so married to the false impression that we're so separate, that we're separate from God, that we're separate from each other, that we're separate from consciousness. When we understand how connected we are through the field, through the molecular, atomic, energetic Plane. Of course it is. What you just spoke of. It is non local because it's all local. It's completely connected. And so it's so powerful, what you just said. Not only that that study depicts it, but that we each have the capacity to love another person into life. That each of us has that shamanic capacity to bring a level of love that heals another person, that heals life, that heals our plants, that connects to everything around us. And if we knew, if we could really grasp that, how could anyone not know that they're needed or not understand their connection to God and to the universe? So I'm just blown away that that study exists. It's beautiful.
- [26:01]
Dr. Lisa Miller
And so we then have an opportunity to participate in the miracle by realizing our true nature as an open system in dialogue with the loving, guiding presence of God, the sacred consciousness field, by having this discussion every day with God, what God are you showing me now? What God do you ask of me now? Before we started the beautiful prayer that we might receive God's guidance in our service, in our conversation, I also just
- [26:33]
Kathy Heller
want to add for people who are listening, if you struggle with the word God, something really powerful that Rabbi Aaron taught me. And this is like a very mainstream Jewish idea, but he teaches it so well. So there's 70 names of God in the Torah, but one that we often use that we, we speak of. Jewish people say hashem, which means the name, because we don't pronounce this particular word. But the particular word that I am going to spell is the word that's very much regarded as God in the Torah. And it is spelled with a yud and then a hey, and then above and then a hey. That word actually means is, was, and will be. So when people say, I don't believe in God, I'm an atheist, I want you to understand that the definition, the Hebrew definition, is that God is existence.
- [27:32]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So if we don't per se, in and of itself.
- [27:34]
Kathy Heller
In and of itself, yes. That existence, the fabric of existence, is the creator. And that, I think, is when people say, I don't believe in that because I believe in this, like, you know, I just believe in existence. Therefore I don't believe God exists. Okay, but God is. What do you think of that? I mean, it's just so deep and it's so powerful. And the central prayer in Judaism is Shemay Israel Hashem, Elocainu Hashem, which means a heart is one. So it's the oneness of all. It's that it is, was and will be. And it's in everything. Right. And it's also beyond everything at the same time. And that is what we're talking about. And really having a deeper connection to consciousness every day. Every day.
- [28:23]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So, yes, as we pray and receive guidance as we meditate, and suddenly there's a. What some people call a download and a sudden awareness, a catch and the catcher's mitt. Also, as we walk through our day, we're in a walking, breathing, living dialogue with the source of all life.
- [28:44]
Kathy Heller
Yeah.
- [28:45]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Whether, again, whether the higher power, the source. That means that everybody who shows up is part of the miracle. The good guy, the bad guy, the deer, the dove, everybody is part of the miracle. We have an opportunity being potentiated in front of us every single moment to participate in this miracle. Synchronicities are wonderful indications of what is this opportunity before me?
- [29:12]
Kathy Heller
I wanted to ask you about that because something. I repeat a few things that you say a lot, all the time, and one of the things you spoke about on the prior episode that you did here was the yellow doors and how in life, very often we're looking at a red door, and then the yellow door opens.
- [29:28]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Should we do it?
- [29:29]
Kathy Heller
Well, I. I was thinking that I want you to. Whatever you want to do, I want you to do. But I wanted you to speak to synchronicity even more and help us understand how every day we could experience more synchronicity in our life.
- [29:42]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Synchronicity is when two seemingly unrelated physical events, for instance, or two seemingly unrelated events, one's inner and one's outer. Synchronicity is when two events that are physically unrelated bespeak being expressions of one deeper, singular unit of reality.
- [30:07]
Kathy Heller
Well, it was like the night that you were in LA and it just happened to be. We were trying to get together, and I'm like, wait, Bobby Kennedy's birthday is at my house. I wanted to introduce you guys. You're like, I would love to come. Perfect. You happen to be here. That felt like synchronicity.
- [30:19]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Well, and Bobby Kennedy is such a wonderful part of that synchronicity, because as a student of Jung, Jung was one to propose for the psychotherapeutic community the reality of synchronicity, that we are indeed in dialogue with the screenplay.
- [30:33]
Kathy Heller
Incredible. And you both had him in common in terms of being such an important part of your life. So how do we experience. If we want to wake up every day and set our radio to the channel of more synchronicity, how do we do that?
- [30:46]
Dr. Lisa Miller
We all are built to be able to feel in those synchronicity. But very often, that whisper of a hunch, that tiny little knowing can be brushed away, can be ignored. So, for instance, I'm thinking of this guy I haven't seen in 30 years, and suddenly, that day, he shows up at the supermarket, or I'm wondering what's really gonna be best for my son and how I'm gonna help him as he leaves college, find the right job, and a mom sits down next to me right there at the coffee shop and says, ugh, I'm really trying to help my son find the next step in his life, right? We all know the reality of life is built on synchronicity. We know this. The evidence is overwhelming. And yet in those moments, that ping, that hit, we have the invitation to authorize ourselves as knowers and take that little whisper of a hunch like, wow, that really strikes me as synchronistic. Or, wait a minute, is this that thing? Synchronicity. Invite ourselves to be curious and take ourselves seriously, that we are a part of the master. We are built to know what is sacred and true, that our very composition is built to feel and sense, resonate with what's being shown by source, by existence, right here, right now. So authorize ourselves to know this. Synchronicity may just be real. Reflect. Step two. What does this mean? I mean, I was just thinking about what's going to help my son, and here's this. Mom. I'm just wondering why I was thinking of this guy. I haven't thought about him in decades, and there he is. What might this mean? Reflect. Know it's real. Reflect. And then, most important part of all, act on it. When we act on synchronicity, it's at that point that we become collaborators in the miracle. Otherwise, synchronicity is nothing more than a spectator sport. We have an invitation through synchronicity to serve, to collaborate. Ah, this mom. Maybe I have something to offer her about what I've discovered for my son. And maybe she has something to offer me, who, in the end, wins. Our sons and everyone they touch. Synchronicity is not greedy. It's not just about me. It's about how we in our lives ripple out into the universe.
- [33:09]
Kathy Heller
It. It's so incredibly beautiful. And last. Last week, I was sitting on the couch, and for whatever reason, I had this download of. I need to reach out to a friend of mine. She's a friend of mine from college. And I just texted her, how are you? Is everything okay? And she said, did someone tell You? And I said, no. And she said, my mom just had a seizure. She has a brain tumor. I just flew to Nashville, like, this morning. How did you know that? And I said, I wonder if we are actually all capable of being more psychic than we think. And I'm curious what you have to say about that, because three years ago, I had this. It wasn't a ringing in my ear. It was like a pain in my right ear. And it was bothering me. And I remember speaking to a doctor friend about it. She came over, she looked at my ear, she gave me drops. She said, your ear looks fine. Next thing I know, I'm sitting next to this woman. I went to see a comedy show, and I'm sitting next to this woman in Los Angeles, and we are talking before the show gets started. And she's from Chicago. And I asked her what she does, and she says she's a medical intuitive. And I said to her, when are you leaving? And she's like, I'm leaving Tuesday. I said, can you see me before you leave? She comes in before I say a word. She said, it's your right ear. I said, correct. And she said this to me. She said, there are many people who have an experience where it's not that they don't hear things. They can't. They don't have a particular level of capacity, but you do, and you're not listening. And when you realize that every single day, if Most people need 5 to 10 minutes of prayer and consciousness in the morning, you. You need 40 minutes. And until you sit down and start listening for 40 minutes a day, your ear is going to bother you.
- [35:05]
Dr. Lisa Miller
What a gift.
- [35:07]
Kathy Heller
What a gift. Literally, the next day, I did that. I reported for duty. I said, God, let's have a meeting, you and me. I'm here to listen. And I started to lean in to that, and that went away in my ear. And I feel like that was a lesson. And I feel like what happened last week when I reached out to my friend, and then there's a part of me that says, well, that's ridiculous. You know, I don't have any kind of, like, capacity to be psychic or whatever it is.
- [35:36]
Dr. Lisa Miller
You're exquisitely attuned. You're exquisitely attuned. And the more attuned we are, indeed, the more we need to sit in prayer and meditation and listen. In fact, through the lens of science, we see that. That the deeper the. Well, the more we've cultivated our spiritual awareness, the more that we are open and sensitive to whatever may come in so it is our healers and guides and shamans and musicians and artists who are exquisitely open to receive and perceive the good, the bad, the painful and the beautiful. Which means that as we go through the seasons of life, it's actually the deepest, most open souls that suffer the most in the face of struggle and then are invited through that pain to awaken, deepen, widen the lens, let in even more light, and be that much more illuminated.
- [36:29]
Kathy Heller
Does everybody have the capacity to tap into that level of our consciousness?
- [36:35]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Yes, we all have this. Nobody's left out. But the more we cultivate it, the more we open the lens, the aperture. And of course there's human variability, as there is in math and music and all things. I'm a great appreciator of art. I love listening to music and tapping my foot and dancing. But my husband says I sing like a bird, which is his gracious way of saying tremendously off key. Which means that there's human variability in everything. And of course, we experience the transcendent in different intensities, in different ways. Some people have a kinesthetic gut sense, some people will see a visualization or hear an auditory visualization. An auditory, very important point. Imagination, for much of the 20th century, was understood as to concoct, to construct. When we thought the brain was a factory that made thoughts, imagination was to fabricate. But now, increasingly, in the 21st century, as we know the brain as conduit, an antenna to sacred consciousness. Imagination is to image, it is to receive information. It could be a visual image, it could be an auditory image, it could be a deep gut instinct, a kinesthetic sense, intuition. As we know the brain as a conduit, as an antenna. Then when we have a knowing, we can understand imagination as capturing the catch and the catcher's mitt as receiving the guidance.
- [38:11]
Kathy Heller
So cool. I want to ask you about this, going further with it, because I was in Switzerland this summer, I've never been there, and it was absolutely exquisite. And at one point, for whatever the reason, I had to go to this city called Bern because there was an Apple store there. And I got to the apple store at 4:40 and it closed at 5. And so the driver, who was very kind, said, I'm gonna park on this one way street and then I'll meet you back here and you're gonna run around to the corner, otherwise you might miss the store hours. So I run in, they already had it waiting for me. I run back out to where the car is parked and it's now 4:50 and I look up and it says Einstein House. And I realized that the whole reason I'd come to that city, because the Apple product I bought actually had to return the next day. The whole reason I came to that city was because, synchronistically, the driver happened to be parked on this other street where I would never have even mapped to. And it was the location where Einstein lived in this apartment. So I run inside because it's now a museum. And there was like eight minutes left while it was still open to the public till 5pm and I'm standing in this apartment and I'm reading all the different pieces of research that are on the walls, talking about what he did and what he discovered in that apartment in Switzerland. And. And I love Einstein as much as the next person, but I didn't know. I thought he had won, like, multiple prizes, Nobel prizes, Pulitzer, whatever, all of the things. He actually won one. And it was for the research and the discovery he did sitting in that apartment. And so I'm looking out the window where he was looking. And it was in this apartment, without all of the devices and technology that we have today, where he was able to ask a question about light. And from that moment of imagination and from that level of thought and consciousness and questioning, he was able to move humanity a quantum leap that we've yet to see, as great as what he discovered standing there in Switzerland. And my question to you is that move he made, that quantum move he made to even ask that question, to open up the kaleidoscope of his awareness, to look through the window at the light and to. And to connect to a greater sense of information. What do we need to learn so that we can be doing that all of the time? That's what Miles Davis was doing. That's what Jim Henson was doing. That's what Michelangelo is doing. That's what Steve Jobs was doing. But that. They don't teach you that in school, right? So what was he doing standing in that apartment? And what does that mean? Because he talked about imagination, that we can understand, is the gateway, is the catalyst to those quantum leaps.
- [41:01]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So in Einstein's own word, right, knowledge is discrete, but imagination is infinite. It encircles the world. He was receiving divine guidance. He was receiving from source through imagination, a whole new to that point, unseen paradigm. These are the gifts that we all have. We all have built into our brain the antenna through which to receive a vision that's never been handed to us before. This is what makes us so different. I don't think for an instant that AI could replace human imagination. Because as a piece of the master, the human receives sacred consciousness. There is a quantum leap to a vision that could only be brought forward by tapping into the source. In other words, a computer can take all information to date and combine it, and combine it again and again and iterate round and round and put every combination thereof into a so called idea. But a human can raise the antenna and receive an idea that has never ever before been envisioned.
- [42:24]
Kathy Heller
Incredible.
- [42:25]
Dr. Lisa Miller
It's not the additive sum of a hundred other good ideas. It's not the recombination or the reorganization. It is a quantum leap, and that is divine.
- [42:33]
Kathy Heller
How does a person put themself in the right mode, in the right resonance, in the right frequency, so that we could collect those downloads every day?
- [42:47]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So, in my own path, it's prayer for some people, it's meditation. Some people call upon the ancestors, which has again the same transcendent thread through it. Kathy, I'll share with you that since I last saw you, my father died. And. And I remember as he was dying, reaching out to you and how extraordinarily present you immediately, every time I reached out within less than 30 seconds got back to me, walking with me through my father's crossing over. And since that time, it's now been a year. His York site was quite recent. I feel my father's presence every day. Yes, my father's opening doors. Most importantly, I feel this glorious love when I think of my father. The imagination raises the antenna, if you will. And it is really my father who comes in his very unique way. My father is absolutely here. And the same gift we have to receive God and the universe is the same gift through which our beloved fathers and mothers and grandparents and children who've crossed, all who've crossed connect with us here and now. We're never alone. They're always with us.
- [44:06]
Kathy Heller
It's so beautiful, and I am so deeply happy for you that you have the capacity to continue that relationship and know it and feel it. And I feel since my dad has passed away, which was almost two years ago, our relationship has taken on an even greater dimension in my life. And I think you know this story. But when my dad passed away, my last name is Heller. His last name was Heller. And he had left my sister and I his house. He wanted us to have it. He talked about it a thousand times. And what wound up happening was my. His wife sold the house. And I said to my sister, it's okay. Dad's going to leave us a house. And there were fires in la. And I decided that it was time to leave Los Angeles. And sight unseen, I put an offer in a house in South Florida, sight unseen. And I wrote an offer, less than asking, thinking that they would counter my offer and we'd eventually wind up at a number that everybody was happy with. They accepted the offer the same day. And I asked the realtor, wow, why did they do that? And she said, you have the same last name. Their last name is Heller. And they felt it was a sign. This is your house.
- [45:24]
Dr. Lisa Miller
It's your house.
- [45:25]
Kathy Heller
And when I got there, there were three cardinals in the window. And I grew up in Florida, so I'm very.
- [45:34]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So moving.
- [45:36]
Kathy Heller
I was so moved, and I still am.
- [45:39]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Why three? Who are they?
- [45:41]
Kathy Heller
Well, it's really interesting because. So I grew up in Florida, where I saw plenty of birds and plenty of iguanas, but never a red bird. Like, a red, red bird is like out of a Snow White movie. I've never seen it in my life, not up close. Come to the house. Got the keys. First day I'm there, I'm sitting down, drinking coffee, and right outside my window is a red cardinal building a nest. And there are two little eggs. And those eggs hatch. And for one year, those three birds lived in my backyard. And I saw them every single day until my dad's yard site. But now it makes a visit here and there. But it stayed in my backyard every single morning. I would say hello to them every single day. And I know, like, I feel the hand on my back. It's really quite amazing.
- [46:31]
Dr. Lisa Miller
It's the Heller's house.
- [46:32]
Kathy Heller
It's the Heller's house. I heard Wayne Dyer having a conversation with Abramics. And he said to her, what is it that after my dad passed away, I at one point went to his grave site and I, like, opened up to him and forgave him. And a year after that, my book was a bestseller. And is there anything connected about it? And she said, absolutely, because your father is now pure consciousness. And so because you're open, he can be everything he always wanted to be, and you can receive it. And there's nothing. There's no ego in the way. There's nothing in the way other than that completely local, beautiful thread of love.
- [47:11]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So I want to say, if people are struggling, there are moments also, like at the York site of a sadness I'd never felt. It was an acceptance beyond anything I'd felt. And on the very day of my father's York site, it was rainy, it was heavy. I was sitting on the porch, feeling a sorrow I've never felt. I felt profoundly his presence, his love, his whimsical nature. And the sky parted, the sun poured through, and I heard his voice. You see there? There's light after all, there's a little sunshine in the day in his voice. So our loving parents, those who've crossed, they are constantly by our side. And it's our choice to open our heart and our soul, open the aperture and have this loving connection.
- [48:04]
Kathy Heller
I want to ask you because I feel like you've done all this extraordinary work and there's been a lot of focus in your work and you've written a book about, like, children and how, you know, I was just Talking to my 9 year old about this because this year, this. This past school year, I pulled my kids out of the school system and we moved from LA to Florida. And we've just been traveling and enjoying sort of school as life. Beautiful. Next year, my older two want to go back to school. And my younger one said, you know, do I have to go to school? What do you think? And I said, well, I actually think there's so much in school that I'd love to unschool people in. And everything we were talking about and everything you said about Einstein, who, I mean, who could be smarter than Einstein? That's not necessarily what they're teaching kids in school. And you've talked so much about the sacredness of the awakened spiritual capacity in children. Can you help us understand how to cultivate that and how to protect it and how to steer that?
- [49:12]
Dr. Lisa Miller
The most important person in your child's life is you. The mother, the father. Now, of course, it's wonderful when there's a confluence with the community, whether it's the faith community or the school community. But our children look to us to say what is real and what counts. When we open the blinds and tell our own spiritual stories, when we pray out loud or say, might you sit by my side as I meditate? When we run a constant open voice that's true from our own heart, authentically about our own spiritual life, our children learn, hey, mom and I, we talk about that. They learn, wow, this is real. They learn, wait, if I can pray by your side, then when I'm in a tough place or I'm needing to connect to Hashem to the universe, I can do this too, right? And most of all, they learn that they are never alone. They are always in the presence of the source of life. So we are tremendously important. There's nothing we do that's more important. And we kill ourselves to, you know, take them to travel, hockey and tennis, to do the sat, tutor, to do all these things and what you chose to do this year, Kathy, by giving them the gift of life that is existence, that has all knowledge. It is existence that is infinitely abundant and is nature that holds the breath of God. It is our lives that are where the learning is. My father gave that gift to me. I took a year off school, it was in third grade. And what I learned was as we met people from all over. I mean, my father took a year sabbatical. We traveled really, you know, in the 70s, this was very simply eating bread in the park and seeing who we might meet in the playground. And I learned to communicate with children without ever sharing words. Children who spoke French, children who spoke Spanish. Because the knowing of the heart can connect with everyone. The most important lessons of my life came from the year I traveled with my father around the world. I spent very little time in formal school that year, but I learned how to connect with all people and the divinity in all people. It's the greatest gift you can give. I'm not surprised that Einstein's great gift, inspiration, that Einstein's imagination was touched in Switzerland because raised high on the mountains where the light is so strong. Nature is a beautiful expression of source of God's presence. Nature is the breath of God. Nature holds the answers, not like another person, but as an expression of the divine itself.
- [52:09]
Kathy Heller
It's incredible. I want to ask you about this next piece as well, because we alluded to it earlier with health and consciousness and how spirituality might actually play a bigger role in our health and our wellness. And another connection that we made is I introduced you to Dr. Casey Means. We had a little moment of tea together. I really, really wanted you guys to have connect. And I didn't know at that time that she would be nominated for Surgeon General. And she recently just had her hearing. And I got a call and Casey knows this a couple days after her hearing from a reporter. And I said, listen, I'm not usually like a big fan of talking to reporters. And she said, I just want to ask you a few questions about spirituality. And I said, oh, okay, that's interesting. And she said, Dr. Casey Means was nominated for Surgeon General. She just had her hearing. And I'm reading through her blog and I'm looking at the things that she finds fascinating or helpful. And she's writing about health and she's writing about food, and she's writing about her take on medicine. And then she wrote about you and Kabbalah and Jewish wisdom. And so she said, I wanted to call to ask you, why do you think that she makes a connection between spirituality and health and what is that connection? And I thought, oh my gosh, like we are living in a messianic time. The fact that this question is being asked. And so we discussed it and she wrote this beautiful article about the symbiotic nature of that. And I would love to ask you that question because I know you have so much to say on this topic. Why do you think that the science, the work that you've done indicates that our health, our wellness, our biological well being is connected to having a spiritual life? That is something people could probably get curious and on board with. Right. Why are you so sure that those two things come together and that we might want to spend more time, attention there for our health?
- [54:19]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Yes. So, first of all, I was so grateful to you for introducing me to Dr. Casey Means. And I think so highly of her. And we've been in touch.
- [54:28]
Kathy Heller
She's amazing. You're very similar in terms of people and your expressiveness and your playfulness and your delightedness and your wonder. You're very, very similar.
- [54:38]
Dr. Lisa Miller
We're all peas in a pod. And it was a beautiful night, Sharon, the three of us. It was an absolutely wonderful evening indeed. Dr. Means understands that the formation of the whole person is a spiritual core. She knows that deeply and of course lives and breathes it, as do you, Kathy. What is it in our time? Well, for much of the 20th century, we thought, ah, here's the biological person, here's the neural correlates of the person, here's the endocrine system of the person. And over here, on the other side, are these ephemeral, can't quite touch it, know it, spiritual beliefs? Science can't measure that. Right. Finally now, you know, a quarter of a century into the 2000s, we have a robust science that says, actually that is an outdated paradigm. Our capacity for spiritual awareness is biological. Body, mind and soul, we are one, the monoist perspective. And in fact, our brain, our wiring is built to feel and know and receive guidance from the spiritual force in life. This is how we're built. We know this through MRI studies, we know this from genotyping studies, we know this from long term clinical course studies that let us know how, if we have a spiritual life, might we flourish and how, if we have yet to realize our nature, might we suffer more? Science has caught up science. Now, the body of research, all told, raises a mirror to both the spiritual nature of the human hardwired biologically, and the fact that we are an open system, not just an atom, mystic, sealed box, an open system that can receive the breath, the life, the direction of the universe, of God. It's a whole nother understanding of who we are.
- [56:41]
Kathy Heller
It's incredible. And I'm sure you're very familiar when Dan Buettner was on the show and we were talking about the blue zones and people who are living, you know, into their hundreds, and he said, you know, there's several things that they all have in common, but one of those things is this spiritual life that then lowers cortisol, which is responsible for inflammation, and disease is coming from that inflammation and that cortisol. So what can you add to that? So that those of us who are sitting here who would love to live longer and would love to be able to biohack, how is spirituality available? And what would we do? What would we intend? What consciousness would we reach for so that we can also live into our hundreds and thrive?
- [57:39]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So I would say that spirituality is a deep orientation to the true nature of life. It is a profound way of living, as you do, Kathy, in your own life, living in dialogue with the universe. So we can relinquish what I think is becoming an antiquated view of radical control. And of course, we have to do our part, but we don't control 98% of the variables. We don't control the skies. We fly through them and navigate them. We don't control the tides. Right. As you put so beautifully, the tides are animated, cathected by the source of life. But we can navigate. We can be exquisitely attuned to what is life revealing to me, what is life showing me now? And when we strike a dialogue, a deep, authentic relationship to God as expressed through the twists and turns of the spiritual path, life feels entirely different. Every bit of life looks different. The landscape is literally the bedrock of the divine creator every day, right? So that's a different way of living. That's an entirely different way of living. When I speak to, for instance, surgeons or oncologists who say, you know, when I treat a patient who has a relationship to God, to their higher power, it opens the door for all sorts of miracles to happen. So, yes, we can hold up all sorts of machines and track the neurons and track the blood flow and track the level of different neurotransmitters. But at the end of the day, I go back to your opening point. You know, the sea parts because of divine Will. Because of the source of life, we open the door in our faith and our. Not just belief, our perception and practice of love and relationship to God. We open a door, the door to live out a miracle. That doesn't necessarily mean I recover from cancer, but it means that somehow all these miracles may come through. I may recover from cancer, I may not. But all these miracles come through that I reconcile with my daughter. A man shows up in the next room who needs my care. The symphony of life is suddenly heard, and we become members of the orchestra
- [60:08]
Kathy Heller
that is so beautiful. As we are summing up, I could literally sit here for the next 97 days and just be completely engrossed in everything you're saying. And it's not just what you're saying, which is unbelievable, but it's how you say what you say. It's just like watching the master painter. It's just incredible, the way you move and the way the canvas and the strokes on the canvas with your words and your heart. As we're summing up this moment, when you're looking at the world right now, what do you wish, Like a message in a bottle that washes up to shore that everybody would read? What would you want people to know right now, to take with them as they go through their days, before they go to sleep at night? Like, what is a piece of wisdom that you wish you could DM to every person?
- [61:05]
Dr. Lisa Miller
What just came through me was a gift not from me, but from Source. It just came through me, which was, I am right here. I'm right here.
- [61:19]
Kathy Heller
It's so powerful. It's really all there is. And last week, for the first time, I bought Neville Goddard's, like, his complete collection. And of course, I've known who Neville Goddard was because he's sort of one of the grandfathers of consciousness and manifestation and all of that. What I didn't know, because I haven't spent that much time looking into his work, was how that, which is what you just said, is the beginning and end of all of his work. I open the book, and then I open it again. I opened again, and every page I opened to until I just sat down and read through the whole thing. I realized it's on every single page. I am that I am. He basically begins and ends and weaves into every single page of that book what Abraham said, what Moses said, that I am that I am. Like, the very first commandment is, I am. I am God, right? But he says, what does that really mean? He says, when you go to the I am Inside of yourself. That's where it is. Right? Because I said earlier, I'm a masterpiece. I'm a piece of the master. That knowingness that I am right here. Even before, when you said, you take that leap and know that, you know, you said earlier, when some. When some whisper comes to you, that is literally. He says, and what you just said, the answer to all of it is breaking the illusion of separation consciousness. And when. And this is something that Casey said to me. She was so unbelievably kind and generous and loving, and she's like, when I read your book, I wanted to tell you that I underlined all of these words because what came through for her, because she's so brilliant and she looks through such an interesting lens. She said, oneness consciousness is the answer to our health. Because when we know we're connected, which is what you started with and what you just said, when we know we're connected to our creator, and it's right here, she said, we get an update in our mitochondria. There's a bioluminescence in the cell, and that is it. And you just said it. That's it. And it's almost like there's that incredible story where the animals come to God and say, what will you do? And God says, I want to make people seekers, and I want to know where to put this wisdom. And the bear says, let me take you, and I'll take you deep in the woods. And God says, no, eventually they'll find me there. And then the eagle says, I will take you high up in the sky. And God says, no, they will find me there. They will go that high. And the little mole comes over with her eyes closed. She's blind, and she says, put it inside of them.
- [64:24]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Wow.
- [64:24]
Kathy Heller
Because it's the last place they will ever think to look. And God says, that's it. And that's a beautiful story. But Esther Penim, which is how we say it in Hebrew, the. The hidden face of God, the. The discovery of our life is that it was always so close because it was inside of us and all around us, and we're connected to it, right? It's as Rabbi Aaron said, it's like if God was like the sun, you'd be a ray of that light. So it's like through you, of you, from you, and also still bigger than you. And that is the deepest, deepest level of knowing reality and our own being. And it's what you just said, and I'm just, like, blown away at the power in it. But Also the simplicity of it.
- [65:16]
Dr. Lisa Miller
And as your story shows, the animals knew it all along.
- [65:20]
Kathy Heller
Yeah.
- [65:21]
Dr. Lisa Miller
The bear, the eagle, the mole. All animals tap into the same divine consciousness that is there for us. And they're unmitigated direct knowers.
- [65:33]
Kathy Heller
Oh, my gosh.
- [65:33]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So we can be too.
- [65:34]
Kathy Heller
I don't even have the words except just to share from my heart. I'm so grateful that you are here in this room, that you are here on earth walking.
- [65:46]
Dr. Lisa Miller
I'm so grateful for you and to be dear colleagues and friends.
- [65:50]
Kathy Heller
So special.
- [65:51]
Dr. Lisa Miller
So we opened off camera with a beautiful prayer. And I feel that the prayer was to be in service, to be conduits, to see where God takes us and to be part of this oneness. Would you consider Kathy closing with a prayer?
- [66:08]
Kathy Heller
Yes, absolutely. First of all, God, thank you for every way that you continue to create such a sound and light show and extraordinary experience for us as you reveal more of your light and wisdom. And thank you for creating this incredible teacher and beautiful heart of Dr. Lisa Miller. And thank you for allowing me the capacity to receive and perceive any amount of what she is shining through this world. And may everybody who listens to this be blessed. And may everyone who listens to this really be able to tap into their soul on a next level of awareness and knowing so they can have a relationship with you, so they can be in that dance and not only seeing miracles in their life, but being a blessing to everybody who crosses their path so that they might love in such a way that is so healing and ripples out. And may our conversation today be for a blessing and thank you so much.
- [67:29]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Please. Bless you, God. Amen.
- [67:33]
Kathy Heller
Thank you so much. Can you tell everybody where they can just keep following you and finding your books and your work?
- [67:39]
Dr. Lisa Miller
Oh, Kathy, thank you. So the Awakened Brain is my most recent book that shares the science and the stories and the practices of direct spiritual connection. The Awakened Brain has science and stories and practices all towards realizing our natural spiritual gift. And I always welcome connection through Instagram. Dr. LisaMiller.
- [68:02]
Kathy Heller
Amazing. God bless you.
- [68:04]
Dr. Lisa Miller
God bless you.
- [68:05]
Kathy Heller
Lisa is incredible. And now here's my daughter Maddie with the takeaways.
- [68:10]
Maddie
Number one, we are all natural spiritual beings from birth. Our brain has circuits ready to perceive and receive with a relationship to God. But we still have to cultivate it with prayer, meditation and how we live. Our brain has a bonding network that lights up when we feel God's presence the same way it does when we're held by a parent. When we open our spiritual awareness, we. We know we're loved and never alone. It's not an opinion. It's how we're built. 3. Every time we're annoyed, betrayed, or hurt, we have a choice whether to love. That doesn't mean tolerating harm. That means we're on a spiritual journey and so is everyone around us. 4. The brain isn't just a factory that produces thoughts. It's an antenna that receives love and guidance from the universe. The real question is God, what are you showing me right now? Spiritual healers don't manufacture sacred consciousness. They host it and direct it. That's who we all are together. Number six. Imagination is not just things we're making up. When we see, hear or feel something, it can be a way of receiving information from sacred consciousness. A catch in the Catcher's men in the soul. We're so glad that we got to spend this time with you today. Thank you for being here. If this conversation spoke to your heart or made you feel like you're finally having permission to use your real voice, please hit a follow wherever you listen. And please leave a quick rating and a review. Every review helps us reach those who are ready to raise our vibration and step into the whole name timeline.
- [70:17]
Kathy Heller
Here's a review and a question that we got from Carly on Spotify. Hi Kathy. Firstly, love everything you do and love this podcast. I have a question that I would love explored further on an episode. You talk about being a vessel big enough to hold the abundance we want to achieve. I would love to know practical ways to expand the vessel when you feel stuck or stagnant. Ooh, that's such a good question. Carly and I love that so much. We will definitely include this in a Q and A in a future episode because it is one of my favorite topics. Before we hop off, I just want to tell you about something so fun you guys. On August 2nd and 3rd, I'm hosting the Kathy Heller Live Summit, your abundant era in Los Angeles. And I want you in the room. We spend so much of our lives white knuckling it, trying to figure out the how and working way harder than we actually are designed to. But what if the cheat code was actually fun? What if your next level is a reality that you could step into because you finally had the audacity to choose something that feels like ease, that feels like magic. We're going to spend two days together shifting your energy, dropping the perfectionism, and tuning your frequencies that abundance can meet you. This is way beyond just another event. It's an immersion into what feels so true, what feels so good to your soul. We're going to have fireside chats with my amazing friends, Mignon Francois, Samantha Skelly, Craig Siegel, Alyssa Nobriga, Rudy Ricksteins. Plus, we're going to do some live coaching in the room, so you definitely don't want to miss this. We're going to have a VIP option as well for a small group of you who want to be there for extras and to get a front row seat. There is so much fun to the VIP level, but you can go to kathyheller.comsummit right now and grab your seat. I can't wait to see you live in person in Los Angeles this summer. I love you so much. Talk to you next week.