The Centaur Podcast: “Movement Explorations with Horses”

Host: Camron Adibi
Guest: Paula Joseph Jones (Dancer, Movement Educator, Author)
Date: July 2, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Camron Adibi sits down with Paula Joseph Jones, acclaimed dancer, choreographer, somatic movement educator, and author of Our Horses, Ourselves: Discovering the Common Body. Their lively conversation journeys through Paula’s personal and professional connection with horses, the role of somatic movement in relationship building, healing, and choreography, and how humans can unravel habitual, dominance-based models to find genuine, improvisational connection with horses.

Listeners are treated to insights on interspecies improvisation, trauma-informed equine work, and the transformative potential of "listening with the whole body."

Key Points & Discussion Breakdown

Paula’s Early Fascination with Horses & The Genesis of Her Work

• Childhood Roots (02:20)
  • Paula shares a lifelong fascination with both dance and horses:

    “Horses were always, just always fascinating to me from, from childhood. …and I wanted to ride horses. And my parents thought it was a much better idea that I learned how to play the piano. Time has a way of resolving those things.”

• Embodied Dance (02:54)
  • Her perspective on dance is less about formal choreography, more about deep, embodied movement:

    “To me, movement is a deeply embodied practice…a curiosity about how movement arises from the body without our shaping it intentionally.”

Healing, Pain, and the Turn Toward Horses

• Encountering Osteopathy & Horses (03:55–07:50)
  • After years as a dancer and enduring severe hip pain, Paula describes being drawn to horses—first as a source of healing, then as creative partners.
  • A profound moment with an osteopath:

    “She put her hands on my head…She said, ‘I’m just seeing horses.’ And I started to cry…It was such a confirmation, like, yeah, this is coming. This is really a huge pull.” (05:00)

• First Horse & Somatic Curiosity
  • Riding provided physical relief and a revelation. Paula:

    “Almost the moment that I got on them, I loved…feeling the connection, this bodily connection with the horse, the warmth…the reciprocity of that.…” (07:00)

  • This sparked curiosity about moving with horses on the ground—communicating in a “primal, primary language.”

    “If I listen more from my cells…from my tissues, if I listen more from my heart, what will I receive and how will they receive what I might offer in movement?” (07:46)

Rhythm, Body Language, and Interspecies Choreography

• Beyond Rhythm (09:59)
  • Rhythm is just one element; body language and emotional safety are paramount:

    “Rhythm is a tiny piece of what I'm looking at…How do we need to shift our movement language to make ourselves a place of curiosity and safety for the horse, rather than igniting the sense of threat...in the horse.”

• Improvisation as Core Practice (11:28–14:55)
  • Paula’s work with horses and humans begins with improvisation, noticing responses, and building trust:

    “As I said before, it was a really exploratory, improvisational.…I’m an improviser….allowing movement to arise more spontaneously and being curious about how they respond.” (11:28)

  • For performances, some structure (the “banks of the river”) is needed to help horses feel secure.

    “If we were staying in that improvisational modality all the time…they could feel less confident, less trusting.” (12:30)

• On Choreographing for Horse-Human Companies
  • Describes working with a Marwari mare and upper-level horses/riders, blending improvisation and rhythm based on the horse’s abilities and comfort.

Somatic Movement and Therapeutic Practice

• Defining Somatic Practice (15:12–17:29)
  • Paula focuses on sensation, emotional presence, and self-inquiry when working with humans and horses:

    “How do I…What part of me is perceiving you? Am I all up in my cognition here? Am I thinking, am I feeling?…What happens when you move a little bit away from the horse? Does it change?”
    “What happens if your hands are listening?…What's the reciprocity like in that touch?” (17:30)

• Practical Techniques
  • Her book contains over 60 practices to build somatic awareness and deepen relationships, not just with horses, but with others and the environment:

    “In the presence of the horse, I have this opportunity to deepen into myself differently, to feel myself in an unfamiliar way.” (18:44)

• Autobiographical Elements
  • The book weaves in personal stories, especially her relationship with her autistic godson, to illustrate listening and connection beyond words or dominance (20:08).

Dismantling Dominance and Expanding Agency

• Questioning Habits of Control

  “We want to make things better for the horses. And in order to do that, I think we have to step out of our habitual ways of approaching them…like how do I put the halter on?…That immediately sets up this very kind of top down…We’re going here. Are we going here? Where do you want to go?” (21:00–22:34)
  “It’s got to be a question…Pausing and listening…and respect the answer.”

Trauma Work, Improvisation, and Agency

• Client Practice with Horses (24:18–31:50)
  • Paula does not use a protocol with clients, instead responds moment-to-moment, prioritizing safety and individual needs:

    “If there is [a protocol], then I'm not listening.…Because I'm working with folks who have trauma…It's always different, it always depends on what's arising.” (29:46)

  • Explains work with her own horses, Blue (a dressage-trained rescue) and Izara (a formerly wild mustang), always asking “Is this okay with you?” and respecting their responses (24:32–28:47).
  • The horse is often “the guide”; Paula describes her role as “the learner, which I love.”
• Improvisation for Healing
  • Encourages improvisation in clients as a tool for healing and discovery:

    “We're not taught that improvisation…allowing response to arise not from cognition…but from this aliveness, this kind of fundamental vitality…in the body.” (32:12)

  • Credits mentor Pauline Oliveros for influencing her with “deep listening” methods, which she integrates into her trauma-informed somatic work (32:12–35:35).

Art Practice and Current Performances

• Current Work (35:45–36:29)
  • 'Husk Vessel,' a touring stage piece, draws on somatic concepts, exploring the body’s membranes through fabric and movement.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On listening with the whole body:

  “If I listen more from my cells, if I listen more from my tissues, if I listen more from my heart, what will I receive and how will they receive what I might offer in movement?” —Paula Joseph Jones (07:46)

• On letting go of dominance:

  “We have to become more just in our own bodies.…to become less constrained by our habitual ways of moving through the world, our habitual ways of being in relationship with each other and with other beings…” —Paula Joseph Jones (37:01)

• Improvisation as foundation:

  “Improvisers…discover ourselves moving improvisationally…It's a basis of how we kind of discover ourselves.” —Paula Joseph Jones (32:12)

• On collaborating with horses:

  “The conversation…was rooted in movement, rooted in that sort of call and response. Sometimes she would be the call, and I would be the response.” —Paula describing work with Izara (27:54)

Important Timestamps

• 02:20 — Paula’s childhood fascinations and how movement became central to her life.
• 05:00 — Transformative osteopathic encounter leading Paula to horses.
• 07:00 — Embodied connection felt during first horse rides.
• 09:59 — Discussion of rhythm versus holistic body language with horses.
• 11:28–14:55 — How improvisation underpins Paula’s creative practice with horses and humans.
• 17:30 — Touch as a reciprocal, listening-based practice.
• 18:44 — Suggestions for building somatic awareness.
• 21:00–22:34 — Dismantling habitual dominance, fostering horse agency.
• 24:32–28:47 — Paula’s personal horses, their rescue stories, and the two-way learning relationship.
• 29:46 — No standard protocol; sessions are individually responsive.
• 32:12 — Improvisation in movement; influence of Pauline Oliveros and deep listening practices.
• 35:45–36:29 — Current touring stage work, 'Husk Vessel'.
• 37:01 — Closing reflections on embodiment and human transformation.

Connect Further

• Book: Our Horses, Ourselves: Discovering the Common Body (Trafalgar Square, 2017)
• Website: paulajosephjones.com
• Contact: bjj.paula Joseph jones.org

Whether you’re a horse person, dancer, or curious about embodied practices and trauma healing, Paula Joseph Jones offers a fresh, improvisational, and deeply humane perspective on our connections with horses—and what these relationships reveal about ourselves.