← The CEO’s Guide to Marketing
The CEO’s Guide to Marketing
The one with Fundamentalco founder and CEO Jonny Bauer about how to make a company more valuable.
00:44:48
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- [00:00]
Host
Foreign. Let me ask you a first question. What is your favorite thing about me?
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Johnny Bauer
Your glasses.
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Host
I was kind of hoping for something less superficial and more substantive. Second shot. Do it.
- [00:21]
Johnny Bauer
Your voice.
- [00:23]
Host
All right. That didn't work at all, by the way. We're keeping this in the show. Here's a question for you. You go from chief strategy officer at Droga5, where you created the strategy function. You know, you were an integral part of Droga's being named agency of the decade, lots of agency of the years, along the way, working with some of the biggest brands and businesses in the world, and you shift and you go into private equity and you go to Blackstone. So my question, with a very specific thesis in mind, I want you to share what your thesis was with our audience, but also help us understand what Blackstone in fact understood about your thesis, why they thought it was relevant. Because as is the premise of the show, not a lot of chief executives, the world's business companies, might have gotten that the way they did.
- [01:18]
Johnny Bauer
Great. Not a softball. First question.
- [01:21]
Host
Well, you know, there are no softballs here, especially since you said nice things about my glasses.
- [01:26]
Johnny Bauer
Well, I think that what Blackstone and I believed was that brand could be a lever that could be used with greater intentionality to connect to value creation for its portfolio of companies, and that the definition of brand within the kind of PE backed context was often limited. So the questions that you a common misperception of what brand is within that context. Brand is a logo or the, the brand is an identity or maybe, oh, brand, that's. I, that, that, that's a website or maybe an advertising element. So the perception of brand within that context is often quite downstream when the thesis was that's a very limited definition of what brand is. Brand is essentially an idea that can help align and organize an entire company around and it can act as a blueprint for it to be a guide to places of higher value. So the thesis was, let's not do a bunch of interventions and then bring the brand people in and ask the question, who are we? Or what are we? Let' brand much further upstream in the sequence of value creation and at the outset really sit down and think through what could this company become next? And as Blackstone very clearly understood that the kind of efficiency based approach to value creation had somewhat played out and we're shifting and evolving to a vision based approach to value creation. So it's, it's less around what can we strip out, but what can this company become next?
- [03:32]
Host
I wish I'd taken better notes because there's so many things within that that I want to unpack. Let me start by asking, where did you come to this perspective? What in your rather illustrious, if I may say so, career led you to this particular unlock? And then I want to talk about how, again, what challenges, if any, you may have faced in selling the premise in at Blackstone.
- [04:02]
Johnny Bauer
So the thinking that led up to arriving in a financial context and then, you know, in. In the last year, spinning out of it was always a. A kind of wish for what we do to make a different level of contribution to a company.
- [04:24]
Host
And when you say we in that context, define it.
- [04:26]
Johnny Bauer
Just, just me, like, okay, is what I want the work that I'm doing to be adding value and to be on the hook for adding value.
- [04:35]
Host
And when you. I'm sorry to interrupt, but when you talk about adding value, you're actually talking about adding shareholder, stakeholder, commercial, monetary value. Not like, hey, that was really good. I'm glad we did it right.
- [04:45]
Johnny Bauer
Well, the bar that we now set for is this contributing to enterprise value of a company, is it helping make the company more valuable? That was a new lens that I placed on the thinking. When we were at Drogo, the thinking was always, how can marketing add a different level of contribution to a company's growth? And I really think that Droga did an incredible job of maybe redefining what good marketing looked like. Certainly contributed to the. The definition of what viral marketing became, and also took big brands out of traditional marketing channels and thinking in a much more integrated and digital nature for the first time.
- [05:41]
Host
At the risk of digression, what's an example or two that you can share?
- [05:46]
Johnny Bauer
So even, I mean, I'm trying to think of the many, but even what Droga's first piece of content that they did which attracted me to the company, I played no role. Air Force One was for Echo, a clothing company where, you know, they, they used very non traditional channels to create virality around the awareness of an attitude that underpinned a company that really resonated with, you know, a young audience.
- [06:14]
Host
We're gonna drop that video to the notes for the show so people can check it out. Because if, if I remember, I remember the moment I saw it. Yeah, David hadn't started Droga yet.
- [06:26]
Johnny Bauer
That it had started. It was very, very early days and I saw that and I was like, this isn't. This is a different thing. This is how to raise awareness of a brand without spending traditional media dollars and integrating into a cultural narrative. I felt very energized and excited around this and started working with them very early on, but then to inte strategy into their process and deliver that. But it was all so there, there are too many use cases around the contribution, the different kind of marketing that Droga brought into the marketplace. And it evolved over time, starting with, you know, upstarts and streetwear companies, but you know, obviously graduating to JPMorgan Chase lead agency 10 plus years, still growing, that kind of, you know, that business. So, and I was always, you know, always a strategist and tried to use strategy to change where the start point was. Right. And so, so, so you weren't throwing spaghetti at a wall. But we're all very clear on why this company existed, what its core differentiation was, what it value added and, and, and where we were pointing at, right. Prioritizing growth audiences and not kind of, you know, boiling the ocean. So adding a lot of like strategic rigor and conceptual thinking to a creative to then, you know, bring to life, execute, take to the next level and ultimately, you know, create amazing, effective work. And that was, you know, it was an amazing company. It still is an amazing company. And I still work with drogo on different levels through some of our clients with great effect. The need though for me was we were often coming up with pretty transformational ideas for companies and getting more access to the C suite and really rethinking what could this company become or how could these ideas connected more than the marketing. But the reality was there was a lot of transformational ideas that were just transforming the advertising and that we're getting stuck in marketing even though they could be connected to so many more components of the company. And that was largely a product of dealing with the chief marketing officer as the client, having the CEO not necessarily connected to the foundational thinking.
- [09:04]
Host
Right.
- [09:05]
Johnny Bauer
Just a review of the work and the siloed nature of these companies where, you know, very often in many of these big companies, the product people don't talk to the marketing people are disconnected from, you know, so, so it's very hard to find a way of, you know, getting these ideas the right seat at the table that can then connect to and be useful to more parts of the company and more people within the company. And so it was with that intentionality that I tried to focus on private companies for a number of reasons. So obviously this is a company that is if once it's recently been acquired, they're going through a, a chapter two moment, right. And this company has been bought and will want to be sold at some point, most likely. And if it is going to be sold for more than it was bought for, there will most likely need to be interventions and changes to that company for it to become something of higher value. And so for me, it really seemed like the right moment of receptivity to a company really thinking what is next in a way that felt bigger than marketing.
- [10:27]
Host
I'm wondering about your choice of the word intervention, which I find really interesting. Right. One might have more readily expected innovation, expansion, new markets, but intervention is very purposeful. Why, why that word? What's it, what's it mean as you use it?
- [10:46]
Johnny Bauer
It's just what, what were a. It's just the word that's used in that context around.
- [10:53]
Host
Within private equity. Yes, I see. So it's vernacular from.
- [10:56]
Johnny Bauer
So it could be a, a move to, to talent. The talent intervention, a technology intervention and marketing. So it's just there are lots of.
- [11:06]
Host
Different levers that in my career, talent intervention has never been a good thing. Just saying.
- [11:12]
Johnny Bauer
And it's not necessarily swapping someone out, but if a company's going to become, take on a, a new set of capabilities, then they'll, they'll need new talent to, you know, oversee those capabilities.
- [11:23]
Host
So, so the premise as I understand it, and I, I think I do. Right, is, is it's a tail wagging the dog thing. Right. Instead of brand being limited and siloed to marketing, which has, as the thesis of this show suggests, been siloed and oftentimes too oftentimes, because once is too many times divorce from being the strategic and financial engine that it is intended to be. You're taking it from downstream to upstream from marketing value to valuation, increases in valuation. The idea is met with initial. Oh, yeah, this makes all the sense in the world at Blackstone. By leadership or. No, they didn't quite see it the way you saw it in which. Well, did they see it as you saw it from.
- [12:15]
Johnny Bauer
I mean, they're really smart people. Yes, they're very smart.
- [12:19]
Host
They've had some success.
- [12:20]
Johnny Bauer
They really. Yeah, they've had a little bit of success and they really understood what we were articulating and the lady that became, you know, my boss that oversaw all of the kind of like operational capabilities for the portfolio of companies was thinking along the same lines of this kind of. And, and the, the, the higher ups thought it was a good idea. Right. And so it was like, I see that. Let, let's give that a try and, and, and, and see how, what, what can happen when brand is given that seat at the table within this context.
- [13:03]
Host
Okay. So Blackstone buys it, but now you have to buys into it. Now you have to convince the individual chief executives of the portfolio companies.
- [13:12]
Johnny Bauer
Right.
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Host
How to operationalize the premise. Yes, talk to us about that, tell us the story.
- [13:17]
Johnny Bauer
So they have Blackstone doesn't force anything, right. You know, on its companies, but they do offer a ton of, you know, operational help if it makes sense within that, that, that context or that category. And there were a bunch of, you know, investors that thought that this made sense to create an introduction to those companies. And then, you know, there were thankfully, you know, some really good pickup of the practice within the portfolio. And we worked really hard to over deliver and create some case studies that were able to show the contribution or how it worked. When you brought in foundational brand strategy at the same time that you were fleshing out your value creation plan and understanding how those things could be connected, it went from here's one to can I get one of those right? And you know, then it became, and it was, it was, it was, it was amazing. But it was, it was, it was, it was challenging because what were some of the challenges? Well, the, you know, that these things can cost money and take time. Right. And it was making sure that we were starting with, you know, the right set of circumstances where people, you could take the necessary time to do it the right way and the right amount of resource connected to it, you know, because you can get asked to do it in a way if it's not their, you know, area of expertise, like how long does it take? You know, can you just do it in this amount of time? And they're all really, really fair questions. But you know, I'd done this long enough to know that if you, if you cut corners in the end it would be bad. Right. And so, and, and, and, and you know, Sarah Thompson, who is like an amazing, like lifelong partner and colleague of mine, has a catchphrase that no one remembers how you get to bad. They just like remember that it was bad. So it was trying to be, you know, Sarah was the chief executive, Sarah was the global chief, the CEO of Druga5 is now the, the chairperson of, of Fundamental Co. Yeah, actually just while.
- [15:57]
Host
You mentioned Fundamental Co, let me do what I didn't do at the top, which is just give you a little midway introduction. So for those who haven't figured it out yet or didn't read the title of the show, in which case, how'd you get here today? I'm sitting with Johnny Bower, who today is the founder and chief executive of Fundamental Company, as we've been talking about before Fundamental. Is it always Fundamental Co or Fundamental Co Before Fundamental Co. Glad I asked. Johnny was the.
- [16:26]
Johnny Bauer
You got to keep our search.
- [16:28]
Host
Yeah, yeah. By the way, SEO is changing, so, you know, you got to now manage for the bots. Johnny was global head of Blackstone's Brand Strategy and Transformation Group. And as we've also discussed before that, he was partner and Global Chief strategy officer. Droga5. Where? Drogo5. I didn't really say that very well. I think it's your Australian accent that's kind of tripping me up a little bit. Could you.
- [16:54]
Johnny Bauer
It's really not a strong accent.
- [16:56]
Host
Stronger than you think. To an American ear, but no, it's not.
- [17:01]
Johnny Bauer
To an untrained.
- [17:03]
Host
Untrained ear. There. He founded and led all the strategic efforts for clients and new businesses, including branded business strategy, innovation, media data strategy and experience strategy. And among many other accolades, Johnny was both the youngest inductee into the AAF's hall of Achievement and the only strategist, at least at that time. And in 19. In 2023, Johnny was amongst those recognized on the Forbes World's Most Influential CMOs list because of his work with so many CMOs and CEOs. So with that introduction, thanks, by the way, for being here.
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Johnny Bauer
Thanks for having me.
- [17:43]
Host
No, it's delightful to see you. You two are wearing very nice glasses, I should say. Talk to me and the audience about the people keeping it anonymous, of course, who just didn't get it, who didn't understand that brand strategy was in fact business strategy or could be. What. What didn't they get? Like, what are you seeing? What have you seen as some of kind of the common just disconnects for chief executives who by and large have no marketing background or experience, at least at the biggest companies.
- [18:15]
Johnny Bauer
I want to make sure I understand the question because I think that the onus is always on us to be able to translate it into the metrics that matter most to that audience. So within this context, the investment context, it's how can these ideas make my company more valuable? And there are a lot of different ways in which we spend to measure that. And so one way. So there are two fundamental ways that we think of how to make a company more valuable. One is to become a bigger company and grow, and how are you measuring each tactic toward connecting to growth? But the other way to become a more valuable company is to transform into something of higher value. Right. And that can be through becoming a company that has a larger addressable audience or tam, or will ultimately be sold for a higher multiple. So there are some sets of circumstances where you don't need to grow if you're going to transform into something more valuable or just become bigger. But for everything that you're doing, being really intentional around understanding, when will we know when we've become this other thing? What's the minimum we need to do to credibly become that other thing? And, and, and having everyone aligned to prioritize and sequence what it will take to get us there.
- [19:52]
Host
What's an example of becoming more valuable without growing? Is it a shift in.
- [20:00]
Johnny Bauer
Right. So it could be like a strategic repositioning of a company. If a company really is an AI company or has a fundamental AI component to how it works, but is being valued as a technology company, not an AI company, what's the strategic positioning that could enable that company to be seen for the value that has been created within that company and sold as an AI company? Or there are examples of companies where we've worked at on mechanical companies that can be transformed into energy transition companies or are energy transition companies, but are just not being seen and valued as energy transition companies.
- [20:46]
Host
It makes me think of, of kind of, you know, that period of time, it's probably, you know, I don't know, it's, it's a decade or so ago, give or take, where suddenly every company position them, every company as a tech company, because every company wanted tech company valuations and, and ratios. As a strategist, you of course look at that and it's like, if you're not a tech company like you, you will call bullshit on the bullshit. Where do you find and kind of mine for the elasticity that gives a company, an enterprise, the permission to expand into a different place credibly, sustainably, so that they can see that, so that it can be monetized.
- [21:36]
Johnny Bauer
That's a great question. I mean, the two questions I get asked every week are, can you turn my tech company into an AI company? Or can you turn my protein company into an Ozempic best friend or companion? And the answer is, unless you are an AI company, we cannot transform your company into an AI company. But if you have AI as a component of your business, we can come up with ideas that create room for you to be able to telegraph and define the role that AI plays within your system. And we can make that a bigger part of your narrative. Or here's what you really need to go through to become an AI company. And that may require an acquisition, that may require pulling something down and rebuilding something in a different way when.
- [22:28]
Host
When you talk about it becoming a bigger part of their narrative. Is that then. And I put these next two words in quotes, just marketing or is that kind of operational narrative, enterprise narrative more than the narrative in addition to what's being put out into the world? Because it seems there's a little tension with what you said at the top.
- [22:48]
Johnny Bauer
Yeah, I think that. Let me. Let me try to give you an example. So like, do you know the company? Clear.
- [22:57]
Host
Yes.
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Johnny Bauer
Right. Yes. So people think of them as a skip the queue at the airport company.
- [23:07]
Host
It would be easier to skip the queue if they had more people manning their stations. But I digress.
- [23:13]
Johnny Bauer
You will always, always, in the end be better off having used. Clear. There you go, Karen. That's my spit. It's a. But the reality is. And then that's thinking through of the value that the market sees that company. But they do so much more than help you skip the queue at the airport company and use technology to help you pull up the right version of you at the right moment in a lot of different contexts in order to context always aligned. No. So it can be, I am at the airport. What's the right version of me that will allow me to go through security? I'm at the hospital. What's the right version of me that will enable them to know what room to send me to? I'm at the Hertz rental car. Do they know that I can't drive stick to even signing in through LinkedIn. So this is like a connected identity company that is able to pull up the right version of you wherever it's needed in order to enable a more frictionless experience? That is true. That is what they are. How does the brand catch up to the definition of what that company actually is and how it should be valued and thought of and integrated into their narrative?
- [24:46]
Host
But that then seems to me to be as much a marketing challenge as anything else. Which is how do we tell the story of who we are more broadly and comprehensively, even if who we're telling that story to are the capital markets and not our B2B or B2C customers.
- [25:04]
Johnny Bauer
But it is going through the process to clarify not just what we say, but what we are and make sure everyone in the company is closely connected to those sets of ideas and making that idea more true over time. So once you've codified this is the thing that we are. Yes, there is a degree that then does cascade into storytelling and or marketing, but also acts as a filter for what they do next and don't do next.
- [25:33]
Host
And. And in that moment where it acts as a filter, what. What popped into my head, as you said that was. Was rather tactical. A checklist. Right. And the chief executive of Acme Widget Company is they have bought into the premise and. And you and Fundamental Co are helping them understand who they are. They are exploring the next opportunity. Right. How do they ensure. Right. Just at its simplest level that what they might do next. What's the checklist that says, yeah, this is actually within our permission to play and this is a bridge too far.
- [26:17]
Johnny Bauer
Got it. So that's something you've really got to get right. And no one can be squinting at the end of this. Right. So where do you interrogate a company until it confesses? It's an understanding where the core equities are around that company and then figuring out where it has license to extend those equities into, but also with which audiences and at which price points. Right. So we're going through a hair care transformation now of a company that has. Is limited within one context of hair care, but is looking to expand well beyond that by understanding what equities that company embodies and people really understand and believe are most unique and special, acted as a clear guidance for where they could extend to next. And then we went through a lot of the rigor of sizing and valuing the audience in those categories and testing their openness and receptivity to our company appearing in that category and building the. And together built the business case around that. Right. So this is the amount of opportunity, sizing an audience, sizing and valuing in connection to these strategies is really, really important. And we do a lot of that work alongside some of the consultancies at certain points where they're coming through to saying like this is where to play. We come in and then really help with this is how to win by becoming what I like the distinction between.
- [28:05]
Host
Playing and winning because of course nobody's in it to play.
- [28:08]
Johnny Bauer
If you're sick of consultancies telling you that you need to get more customers or get your existing customers to use you more as the answer in a thousand point PowerPoint we come in and often take a lot of that data and think through by becoming this.
- [28:24]
Host
So, so two, to call them memes is unfair because they're not. But two things from my social feed the other day, one to your last point, I, I think it was assistance v Agents that posted this apologies might have been agency problems, but it's like, you know, 27 year old consultant who's never worked anywhere else. You need to cut costs and increase profits, you know.
- [28:47]
Johnny Bauer
Right.
- [28:47]
Host
I was like, well, that. That one landed. There's a great. I'm looking at it now. I'll try and. Actually, I don't have a license, so I won't drop it in. But a New Yorker cartoon that has a bunch of pirates kind of looking around a map and, and the caption is, we have too few treasure maps and far too many org charts. And that kind of sounds a little bit, if not the latter part of it. I think what you're talking about is ensuring that people understand the role of brand in, in that treasure map.
- [29:18]
Johnny Bauer
Right.
- [29:18]
Host
Because that is, you know, we celebrate capitalism here, entrepreneurial capitalism. That is what this is about. Not at the expense of all others, but it is about that treasure and, and maximizing, you know, profitable, sustainable growth, which is, of course, the, the role of enterprise. I want to ask you a question. Earlier in the conversation, you talked about kind of the, the shift from inside your. Your advertising career, your marketing career on the agency side, because I, I do want to distinguish advertising and marketing because it's long. Stop being synonyms for each other kind of the CMO is client and the CEO is client. As you moved into PE and what you're doing at Fundamental Co, what's the role of the CMO in these conversations? What do you think it should be?
- [30:13]
Johnny Bauer
So it's varied depending on what kind of company you're working with. A lot of the companies that we've worked with might not even have a cmo. We love it when there's a CMO around and they can often lead and help navigate and steer through many components of this thinking.
- [30:33]
Host
Do you find. I'm sorry to interrupt, but do you find that there's any correlation between the chief executive of an enterprise with or without a CMO to their receptivity and understanding of your thesis?
- [30:47]
Johnny Bauer
No, I don't think so, but I'll think about that. I think that marketing people get energized by the process by pushing the influence of the ideas that they're now connected to beyond just marketing. Right. So it integrates them into the company in new. In different ways.
- [31:10]
Host
Don't you think that's a failure of marketers, that that's even become.
- [31:15]
Johnny Bauer
It's really hard to break down some silos and there's. In some of these companies, it's like, stay in your lane. But if the CEO is overseeing ultimately this, then, you know, the people that make the product, you know, sometimes don't work for the marketers. Right, right.
- [31:29]
Host
Oftentimes.
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Johnny Bauer
Right. So, so, so, so then these strategies or briefs that the, the, the, the, the CMO can often like, like lead do make their way into briefing for product or capability expansion or you know, technology. So, so it's not market is just don't want to do this. It's just like. But sometimes it's not the right context or that's why we keep talking about pushing and elevating the importance of brand to the CEO because they're responsible for everyone in the company. Right. So if they really buy into an idea, it's not just, it doesn't just translate into what do we say but like what do we make and how we organized and who do we hire. Right.
- [32:12]
Host
When, when at the very top of our conversation you talked, if I remember correctly, you know that there's a perception sometimes, oftentime times of brand is the logo, the website, that this, the that. It seems every chief executive at least theoretically is aware of the value of their own, the import of their own brand, the corporate brand, and understand that to be more than a logo, a website, a ad campaign, or is that not the case? Do they not see kind of before you come in, do they not understand that implicitly? And really what I'm getting at is I just find there to be a, a kind of a often an absence of the insight that comes from just our observation that just comes from your own lived experience. Like they don't want their brand to be their corporate name to be sullied. So they certainly understand it from a negative perspective.
- [33:08]
Johnny Bauer
Yeah, I think again that's the difference between brand and reputation, I think, aren't.
- [33:14]
Host
They, I mean I know that there's a whole practice area that's differentiating them, but reputation and brand, to me they're.
- [33:20]
Johnny Bauer
Linked, but they're not the same. I agree with that. And so I think that that a lot of these companies, it depends in what category and where I also get a lot of energy is where you have many of these world class companies that are in these categories that people don't think deserve to a degree a really strong brand. Right. So things like processing companies, infrastructure companies, real estate, enterprise, software, technology, like these kinds of companies, you have these incredible companies. But the idea of brand having an expansive and organizing role within is not that commonplace. So I find that when we sit down with those companies, they're all very smart people that when you like offer up what we're. Those are the companies I love working on and have had the most productive experiences with and are really receptive to using the work in a real, really.
- [34:21]
Host
Instructive way is that because they're, they're oftentimes perceived commodity products or services. Right. Real estate companies, etc. Etc.
- [34:33]
Johnny Bauer
And it becomes commodity maybe, but it's just more of like it hasn't been a lever that they've had to pull in order to achieve success. Right, right. So it just hasn't necessarily been an area of focus.
- [34:46]
Host
Yeah, yeah, right.
- [34:47]
Johnny Bauer
Or they're definition of brand is back to that like limited aperture. Right. And so there have been, there have been companies that we've worked with that haven't thought that they needed it, but when are exposed to how it could connect to their category, have shown appetite to do it. So we're often working with companies that are doing this for the first time. I think with consumer companies there's just a lot more awareness and understanding and emphasis placed on brand for obvious reasons. But we work with a bunch of consumer companies. So you know, we're working with airlines and with credit card credit companies and with publishers and with, you know, connected identity companies. But again, in that instance, maybe Karen.
- [35:46]
Host
We'Re coming at you for sponsorship dollars.
- [35:48]
Johnny Bauer
Just so you know, I won't give them your number, but it's. But in that instance, we're like even trying to provide new clarity and distillation and focus or extend it into different parts of the company that it's not currently influencing.
- [36:08]
Host
Talk to us about how you know and when you know and what timeline you know, if the work that you and, and your clients have done worked.
- [36:21]
Johnny Bauer
Right, Great question. If it's in the PE backed, you know, zone and we work with, you know, multiple firms in, you know, you're ultimately looking at once the company's exited, even though it's very hard to isolate the role that this work could play into it. That's the ultimate measure. Is the company worth, you know, worth more? And so at the highest level you can, you know, expect, but no going into it. Okay, this, the thesis was, the investment thesis showed, can we turn this mechanical company into an energy transition company? Did it sell it as an energy transition multiple? Can we say that brand played a role in guiding that transformation? Yes or no. So you can't really isolate it. But what we can also do, there are many steps along the way to prove that it can get there. And often you can measure how aligned is the company around y exists and what it needs to do next. You can very clearly measure that. You can also start to look at does the clarified, often more purposeful positioning enable a different tier of talent to want to come and work at this.
- [37:39]
Host
Company, which is actually measurable.
- [37:42]
Johnny Bauer
Very, very measurable. We can also start to look and measure are we more able to see what the next steps that a company needs to take around manifesting the vision that we've been aligned. So there is an efficiency to that. Or in the case of now that we're really clear around our repositioning to our customers or consumers, is the marketing connected to those ideas working harder than the work that was not connected to those sets of ideas? So there's lots of different altitudes from like, did the. Did we get a successful exit? Much harder to isolate the role that this work could play in that. But if people are on the bus, then they believe it and they're either coming back to you to do this again or they're not. Right.
- [38:36]
Host
Right.
- [38:37]
Johnny Bauer
So most of the people that we've worked with, it's been the way that we're growing is by fewer people just using us more.
- [38:47]
Host
I want to, as we get towards the end, I want to ask you a question about one of. I think she's your co founder. Jenna is one of your co founders.
- [38:57]
Johnny Bauer
Or she is our partner and one of our executive creative directors. And an absolute genius.
- [39:05]
Host
Yeah, I mean, she's a genius.
- [39:07]
Johnny Bauer
But I'm going to intervene here because what she's so amazing at and she does.
- [39:11]
Host
And that's actually what I'm going to ask, by the way. Sorry, just. We're talking about Jenna Lyons for those who don't. No.
- [39:17]
Johnny Bauer
So she, she does focus predominantly on fashion, retail, hospitality, beauty, anything connected to premiumization. She is one premium cookie. Yeah.
- [39:30]
Host
But she's got a decent track record.
- [39:32]
Johnny Bauer
She. And, and it's, it's, it's beyond like her, her, her eye and an ability to understand what good creative is because it's remarkable. But where she is exceptional is because she has run a very big company. She really knows how to track how the ideas are infusing into the company and how to bring the company along.
- [39:59]
Host
How to operationalize it.
- [40:01]
Johnny Bauer
Excuse me. How to operationalize it. How to see when it's not tracking, how to further translate it into a form that a different part of the business understands. How to make sure that that's then tracking and being pulled through and then how to look at, at everything to see what the cumulative effect of it is having on both the output and the culture. And I think you can only really get that from once you've run A big thing with lots of different people that can choose to be confused at any point. How to not allow that. And the whole choose to be confused thing is another Sarah Thompsonism that I always use. People are confused, but they're choosing to be confused. They can be confused. You can't have organ rejection from anyone if you want this idea to realize the value that it can really add. And so she's always the one saying, guys, this person, this team, we need to go back and rethink how it translates more clearly into a manifestation for them. Right.
- [41:03]
Host
Which takes me back and maybe it'll be a decent place to end. What you were talking about. I asked the question about the CMO's role and sometimes you made the apt point. Sometimes, you know, there are silos here, silos there. The CMO may or may not be connected to the process, the outcomes, the outputs to begin with. One of the things I just have been thinking more and more about over the past few months is how org design oftentimes punches growth in the face. Right. That it just. If, if, if we are siloed and divisionalized, then I'm working against my objectives, not necessarily the company's ob. And in the kind of the nesting dolls of objective strategies and tactics, my tactic becomes an objective and it's not in terms of moving the business forward. Do you have some macro thoughts Thesis on kind of especially in a orgs that are going to change as dramatically as so many will because of technology, because of AI. What. What the org of the future might look like or, or even said differently, what the orgs who do the best job operationalizing fundamental cos thesis look like. If there's a commonality.
- [42:22]
Johnny Bauer
Yeah, I mean that's a. There's a lot in there. I think that the way that we think about it is once we're really clear again of the role of these ideas having a different seat at the table once we're really clear on what we are and what we're agreeing to become. That idea is also used as a filter for how we organize ourselves internally around and what capabilities we need to have.
- [42:58]
Host
Does that wind up raising a bar so high that it's like, oh fuck, how am I going to do all this?
- [43:04]
Johnny Bauer
Not necessarily. I mean, we're working with one power company where there was a discussion around should a. Look, there's certain things that are beyond what we can consult around, but if we're trying to pull a different level of creativity within the experience, there was a question around should a marketing CMO sit above ahead of design. And that's the kind of question of, like, here are the five reasons that might be a bad idea if you're trying to pull this kind of creativity through the company. Right. But it's just a reminder to say, this is what we're becoming. Looking at that as a filter for does it make sense for us to be organized like this or not? Right. Like, and we're not. We're not a change management organization, but we pass and connect with the same ideas that are led by change management people. And we think it should be an input to helping define how the company is organized.
- [44:17]
Host
Johnny Bauer, appreciate you. Thanks for being here.
- [44:20]
Johnny Bauer
Thanks for having me.
- [44:21]
Host
And thanks for listening and watching on YouTube, everybody. If you like the show. And how could you not? I mean, with all due respect, this is good. Johnny was great. I didn't get in his way that often. Smash that subscribe button. Give it all the stars you can. We're. We're just, you know, we're appreciating. Tim, cut this out. This part, I. I'm just babbling at this point. Thanks, everybody.