Podcast Summary: The CEO’s Guide to Marketing

Episode: Unilever Chief Growth & Marketing Officer, Esi Eggleston Bracey on What CEOs Need to Know About Driving Desirability at Scale, the Difference Between Marketing and Sales, and How You Win Hearts, Minds—and Machines.

Release Date: July 30, 2025
Host: Seth Matlins, Managing Director of the Forbes CMO Network
Guest: Esi Eggleston Bracey, Chief Growth & Marketing Officer, Unilever

1. Introduction and Background

The episode kicks off with host Seth Matlins introducing Esi Eggleston Bracey, highlighting her extensive experience as a general manager, president, and CEO before transitioning into her role as Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) at Unilever. Seth references Warren Buffett’s insight on the symbiotic relationship between being a CEO and an investor, setting the stage for a deep dive into how Bracey's leadership roles have informed her marketing philosophy.

Notable Quote:

A: "...the legend that is Warren Buffett has said that being an investor has made him a better chief executive and being a CEO made him a better investor."
[00:00]

2. Marketing as Growth and Desirability

Bracey defines marketing fundamentally as a driver of growth. She emphasizes that marketing isn't isolated from general management; instead, it's intrinsically linked to creating value and differentiating the brand to foster growth.

Notable Quote:

B: "Marketing is about growth. So I actually don't see the distance between marketing and general management."
[00:53]

3. Desirability vs. Preference

A central theme of the discussion is the distinction between 'desirability' and 'preference.' Bracey explains that while preferences are more rational and tied to specific needs or wants, desirability taps into the unconscious, emotional urges that compel consumers to desire a brand intrinsically.

Notable Quote:

B: "Desire is that unconscious urge that makes you feel I just have to have that desire."
[04:06]

4. Measuring Desirability

Bracey addresses the challenge of measuring such an intangible concept as desirability. She advocates for assessing brand value through metrics like brand power and brand attractiveness. Additionally, she suggests evaluating how much investment is required to achieve engagement and conversion, indicating that a strong brand reduces the cost of conversion.

Notable Quote:

B: "The measure for desirability to me is brand value."
[12:13]

5. Brand vs. Content Impact

The conversation delves into differentiating the impact of brand strength from that of creative content, such as television commercials (TVCs). Bracey notes that in today's multifaceted media landscape, both brand power and creative effectiveness must be measured in tandem to understand their individual and combined impacts.

Notable Quote:

B: "You can measure your grand brand power and you can also measure creative effectiveness."
[14:37]

6. Fundamental Marketing Questions

Bracey shares the core questions she and her teams prioritize:

1. Reach: How many people are being reached with the marketing message?
2. Engagement: How effectively is the audience interacting with the brand?
3. Conversion: How successfully is engagement translating into sales?

She also emphasizes the importance of having a differentiated, desirable brand position as the foundation for these metrics.

Notable Quote:

B: "How much reach, engagement and conversion you get. That's fundamental for me."
[16:39]

7. Scaling in the Modern Media Landscape

Addressing the fragmentation of traditional media, Bracey discusses the shift from one-to-many broadcast models to a many-to-many model facilitated by digital platforms and social media. She underscores the necessity of adapting brand communication strategies to various channels while maintaining brand consistency.

Notable Quote:

B: "You no longer can reach the audience that you need because there's no captive linear broadcast model anymore."
[18:38]

8. Marketing vs. Selling

Bracey delineates marketing from selling by positioning marketing as the creation of demand and desire without direct selling, whereas selling involves converting that demand into actual purchases. She highlights the evolving nature of marketing as a tool that not only facilitates sales but also positions the brand effectively in the consumer's mind.

Notable Quote:

B: "Marketing is what creates the demand without actively selling, and then you convert it into the sell."
[25:35]

9. The Role of Creators and Social Platforms

The discussion shifts to the pivotal role of creators in modern marketing. Bracey explains how leveraging both mega and nano influencers allows Unilever to engage with diverse, localized communities at scale. This strategy mirrors the old word-of-mouth approach but amplified through digital platforms.

Notable Quote:

B: "Creators are all about this many to many model. They create content. You have hero mega influencers or creators and then you have nano influencers or creators that are sharing content with their tribe."
[40:38]

10. Building Brands Locally and Globally

Bracey challenges the traditional "think globally, act locally" model, proposing instead "act local, scale global." She illustrates this with examples from Tresemme, where local campaigns inspired by market-specific insights are scaled globally, ensuring cultural relevance while maintaining brand consistency.

Notable Quote:

B: "I think it is act local, scale global. Like it's local wins hearts, global wins business."
[32:51]

11. Marketing in the Age of AI and Machines

Addressing the future of marketing amidst advancements in AI and machine learning, Bracey introduces the concept of winning "machine audiences." She posits that brands must not only appeal to human emotions but also align with how algorithms interpret and propagate brand values. This dual focus ensures that brands remain visible and desirable both to consumers and the machines that influence their decisions.

Notable Quote:

B: "If marketing in the past was about capturing hearts and minds, I really believe marketing in the future is about capturing hearts and machines."
[45:40]

12. The Chief Marketing and Growth Officer Role

In concluding the discussion, Bracey elaborates on her dual-title role, emphasizing that growth is intrinsically linked to marketing. At Unilever, building and nurturing brands is viewed as the core strategy for growth, justifying the combined title of Chief Marketing and Growth Officer.

Notable Quote:

B: "Having growth in the marketing title goes back to reinforce that creating desire for our brands is at the core of the growth strategy."
[52:49]

13. Conclusion

Seth Matlins wraps up the conversation by affirming the depth and insight provided by Bracey, noting that their discussion could extend beyond the timeframe but appreciating the profound takeaways for listeners aiming to elevate their marketing strategies.

Notable Quote:

A: "This is an amazing conversation. It could have kept going, but we are at time and so too our listeners and our watch watchers."
[53:09]

Key Takeaways:

• Desirability Over Preference: Emphasizing emotional connections over rational choices can elevate a brand's position and drive growth.

• Measurement of Intangibles: Brand power and attractiveness are crucial metrics for assessing desirability, alongside traditional engagement and conversion metrics.

• Adaptation to Digital Landscapes: Modern marketing requires a shift from broad, broadcast strategies to nuanced, platform-specific approaches leveraging creators and influencers.

• Local Execution, Global Scale: Building brand relevance through local insights and campaigns, then scaling these initiatives globally, ensures cultural resonance and widespread impact.

• Integration with AI: Future marketing strategies must account for both human emotions and machine algorithms to maintain and enhance brand desirability in an AI-driven marketplace.

• Unified Growth Strategy: Integrating growth objectives within the marketing framework ensures that brand building remains at the forefront of organizational expansion efforts.

This episode offers a masterclass in contemporary marketing strategies, blending emotional intelligence with technological prowess to equip CEOs and marketing leaders with the tools needed to thrive in an ever-evolving business landscape.