CGD Podcast: Building Better Development Partnerships with Santiago Quiñones Cardenas

Host: Rachel Kalea, Center for Global Development
Guest: Santiago Quiñones Cardenas, Director of ODA Private Sector and Philanthropy, Presidential Agency for International Cooperation of Colombia
Date: November 20, 2024

Episode Overview

This episode of the CGD Podcast centers on how global development agencies—both traditional and emerging—can build more effective, inclusive partnerships. Host Rachel Kalea and guest Santiago Quiñones Cardenas discuss their experiences with the Rethinking Development Cooperation Working Group (RDC), an initiative fostering dialogue and collaboration between diverse donor countries. The conversation explores terminology, lessons from cross-country cooperation, the growing role of triangular and circular cooperation, and prospects for innovation in the development landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The RDC Initiative: Purpose & Uniqueness

• What is the RDC?

  • A collaborative forum initiated by Norwegian and Swedish agencies, bringing together eight diverse donors: four traditional (Canada, Norway, South Korea, Sweden) and four emerging (Colombia, Indonesia, Mexico, South Africa).
  • [01:00] Rachel explains: "A key feature of this group is really that our members include four traditional donors... and four emerging donors... which makes the RDC quite a unique space."

• Gap the RDC Fills

  • Forums for dialogue between traditional DAC (Development Assistance Committee) and non-DAC (emerging) donors are rare; most operate in silos.
  • RDC aims to connect practitioners across these boundaries for peer learning and network building.

• Why Did Colombia Join?

  • [04:39] Santiago: "Why not? When we saw the opportunity... we saw a group of very interesting peers...the possibility to have open, straightforward discussions...engage in a different way."
  • The RDC also amplifies the voice of Global South agencies and fosters open dialogue on equal footing.

• What Makes RDC Unique?

  • Small group size allows for candid, tough discussions and peer learning.
  • Collective, co-created agenda sets it apart from other, more hierarchical or politically driven forums.
  • [06:33] Santiago: "We can ask ourselves the difficult questions...there was no agenda. The agenda is built collectively and this feature really put us on a situation of equality amongst partners."

2. Understanding Development Agency Groupings & Terminology

• DAC vs. Non-DAC?

  • The terms DAC and non-DAC are used as technical but imperfect shorthand for traditional and emerging donors.
  • [03:16] Santiago: "DAC and non-DAC could be the easiest way to somehow pack one type and another type of donors...But this recipient, traditional, non-traditional categorization, it’s a difficult one...So for the time being...DAC and non DAC could be the best way to go about it."

• Issues with "Emerging Donor":

  • The term "emerging donor" is vague, as pointed out humorously by a Mexican colleague: “emerging from what and at what point have you actually emerged?”

3. Lessons from Cross-Donor Peer Collaboration

• Listening & Mutual Learning

  • [08:18] Santiago: "Even though south-south cooperation...has been going for a while, the DACs have not been necessarily listening to what the countries from the south have been doing..."
  • Importance of diverse voices in rethinking development goals, methods, and legitimacy.

• Moving Beyond Hierarchy

  • DAC and non-DAC technical experts benefit from more horizontal, practitioner-focused exchanges.
  • Recognition that many solutions to global issues can originate in the South and may be relevant for the North as well.
  • Example: Colombia’s management of migration offers learning for northern countries currently facing migration challenges. [10:30]

• Similar Objectives, Different Approaches

  • Despite differences in context, donors share common goals; the main divergences are in implementation tools and practices.
  • [12:20] Rachel: “The shared purposes of cooperation and the objectives and the goals were fundamentally the same... agencies differed in terms of the implementation and the tools and the ways of working.”

4. Triangular and Circular Cooperation: Modalities and Value

Triangular Cooperation

• Definition & Benefits

  • A cooperation model where a traditional donor, an emerging donor, and a beneficiary country jointly develop and implement projects—combining resources, expertise, and legitimacy.
  • [13:20] Santiago: "It's cost effective, because you tap into things that you've already done that have been tested...it brings legitimacy to ODA."

• Example: Colombia's Peacebuilding Program in Africa

  • When Colombia shared post-conflict lessons in Cameroon, participants expressed greater legitimacy and resonance with their experience than they would with a Northern donor.
  • [13:50] Santiago quoting an African partner: “For us, it's much more legitimate to have Colombia here in Cameroon speaking about peace than having any other country from the north.”

• Advice for DAC Donors

  • Reflect on current triangular cooperation experiences (e.g., those involving Germany, Portugal, Spain, Korea).
  • Pilot co-creation and flexible approaches that allow stakeholders in all partners to shape projects collaboratively.
  • [15:04] Santiago: "Reflect on the lessons learned...I think we have a very good example nowadays ongoing with Spain...It’s a co-creation process which involves national authorities..."

• Project Development Timelines

  • Triangular cooperation is noted for flexibility; project development isn't necessarily slower or more bureaucratic than other modalities.
  • [18:06] Santiago: “This one feature...it's quite flexible. I mean, there's no rules set in terms of partners, in terms of amounts, in terms of times.”

• Role for Countries ‘Graduating’ from ODA

  • Triangular cooperation provides continuity of partnership and engagement after countries transition from aid recipient status.
  • [18:38] Rachel: "Triangular cooperation can be a really interesting way of maintaining that partnership with DAC members..."

Circular Cooperation

• Emergence & Rationale

  • Still under conceptual development; the modality aims to foster genuinely multi-directional learning and problem-solving among countries facing shared challenges.
  • [20:46] Santiago: "Shared challenges between north and south, solutions that can be coming from the south...this breaks this verticality of cooperation..."

• Definition

  • Collaboration is no longer North-to-South or South-to-South, but circular—knowledge and solutions move in all directions to match similar challenges across geographies.
  • [21:26] Rachel: "So it's about learning perhaps from each other in a multi directional way as opposed to it just being this from the North.”
  • [21:35] Santiago: “Yeah, yeah, absolutely.”

5. Challenges & Forward-Looking Opportunities for the RDC

• Institutions Facing Transition

  • All types of agencies—traditional senders, new providers, hybrid organizations—are in a state of flux, rethinking legitimacy, roles, and institutional structures for a changed global landscape.
  • [21:51] Santiago: “Everyone's struggling because we're in one type or in another type of transition. So everyone's questioning a little bit what are we going to do…there's obsolescence institutionally now, what was thought 30, 40, 50 years ago is not the reality anymore.”

• Innovation in Financing

  • The urgent need for new funding models and partners to tackle overlapping crises: poverty, climate, biodiversity, migration, etc.
  • [22:53] Santiago: "How do we manage to fund everything that we need to fund? ... We need new models, we need new instruments, we need new stakeholders..."

• Value of the RDC

  • A valuable space for agencies to share lessons and approaches on institutional, financial, and operational innovation.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Terminology

  • [03:16] Santiago: "DAC and non-DAC could be the easiest way to somehow pack one type and another type of donors...but...probably in three months, I would be saying something different."

• On Peer Equality

  • [06:33] Santiago: "One thing that I really appreciated at the beginning of the group is that there was no agenda. I mean, the agenda is built collectively and this feature really put us on a situation of equality amongst partners."

• On Learning from the South

  • [10:45] Santiago: "Most of the solutions come from the South. So by acknowledging that, DAC or North partners, they can really tap into an opportunity to build up solutions not only for countries in the south, but also for countries in the North."

• On ODA Legitimacy Crisis

  • [13:00] Santiago: "ODA, it's going through a crisis of legitimacy by its own constituents...politicians taking advantage of this...countries in the south questioning...the results they have brought."

• On Value of Triangular Cooperation

  • [13:50] Santiago: "For us, it's much more legitimate to have Colombia here in Cameroon speaking about peace than having any other country from the north."

• On the Need for Institutional Reform and Financial Innovation

  • [26:21] Santiago: "First would be the reform to the international financial system, totally obsolete and not responding to the global needs of people and communities and environment. And second, tax justice."

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:00] – Introduction and overview of the RDC initiative
• [03:16] – Discussion of donor terminology (DAC, non-DAC)
• [04:39] – Why Colombia joined the RDC: motives and early observations
• [06:33] – RDC's unique structure and co-creation process
• [08:18] – Lessons learned: South-South cooperation & the listening gap
• [09:51] – Role of forums in deepening understanding and building partnerships
• [11:14] – Triangular cooperation: definition, real-world examples, and legitimacy
• [15:04] – Advice for DAC donors on engaging in triangular cooperation
• [18:06] – Project timelines and flexibility in triangular cooperation
• [20:46] – Introduction to circular cooperation
• [21:51] – Current challenges and the future role of institutional innovation and finance
• [25:11] – Memorable on-the-job moment: palm wine in Africa (cultural differences)
• [26:21] – Dream policy change: international financial system and tax justice

Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation is frank, collegial, and forward-thinking, with both speakers drawing on personal and institutional experience. The overall tone is constructive and curious, emphasizing peer learning and a willingness to rethink entrenched power dynamics and processes in international development.

Conclusion

This episode offers a detailed look at the evolving landscape of international development cooperation, emphasizing the importance of closing dialogue gaps between diverse donors. Through candid discussion of initiatives like the RDC and innovative cooperation models, listeners gain insight into practical ways to build more legitimate, effective, and equal development partnerships for the future.