CGD Podcast: Local Data for International Impact with Rakesh Rajani and Halsey Rogers

Date: October 17, 2024
Host: Ishani Khanpal, Center for Global Development
Guests: Rakesh Rajani (Tanzanian civil society leader, founder of Twaweza), Halsey Rogers (Lead Economist, World Bank Education Global Practice)

Episode Overview

This episode delves into how locally rooted data and research efforts in education—specifically, large-scale, citizen-led assessments—have shaped global policy and influenced major international organizations like The World Bank. The conversation traces the journey from grassroots data collection in East Africa and India to the World Bank’s 2018 World Development Report (WDR) on education, highlighting the transformative power of centering local evidence in policymaking and the ongoing effort to "decolonize" development research and practice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power and Pitfalls of Data in Development

• Data as a Unifying Force:
  Rakesh Rajani champions data for illuminating public discourse and shifting conversations from inputs (e.g., school buildings, desks) to outcomes (student learning), especially where there are power imbalances (e.g., citizens vs. state, gender/class/caste) (04:19).

  "Data can help reveal new things that we were not aware of… It can be a way of having a common conversation rather than talking past each other."
  — Rakesh Rajani (04:19)

• Moving Beyond Enrollments:
  The success in increasing school enrollment in the Global South was celebrated, but Rajani draws attention to the subsequent realization that "schooling isn’t learning." Local large-scale assessments like ASER (India) and Uwezo (East Africa) exposed that many children were not acquiring foundational skills even after years in school (06:06).

Citizen-Led Assessments: From Anecdote to Influence

• Modeling After India’s ASER:
  Rakesh led teams from Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania to India to study ASER before launching Uwezo. The survey, at its peak, covered 200,000 households annually, second only to national censuses in scope (08:00).

  "We did it an even larger scale than in India… At the beginning, we were surveying 200,000 households every year."
  — Rakesh Rajani (08:00)

• Shifting Narratives, Creating Resistance:
  The public release of Uwezo data, while effective in reframing debates, initially triggered defensiveness in governments, as it challenged their achievements and threatened reformers within the system (10:33–12:57).

  "Had we taken the time to exercise some empathy… we might have realized [the data] also created a sort of humiliation for people in government."
  — Rakesh Rajani (11:14)

• Limitations of Data Alone:
  Rajani cautions against viewing data as a silver bullet. Governments may resist, suppress, or manipulate data. Real change requires relationships, understanding political contexts, and building coalitions inside and outside government (13:53–15:25).

Rethinking Research Ethics & Decolonizing Development

• Extractive Data Practices:
  Host Ishani Khanpal critiques common development economics practices where data is collected from communities without reciprocity or local ownership (18:39).

  "It seems like an inherently extractive process… So I don't wonder if this is a just process and what we can do along the lines of decolonizing development."
  — Ishani Khanpal (18:39)

• Beyond Evidence: Respect, Relationships, and Context:
  Rajani emphasizes that lasting impact combines evidence with contextual understanding, deep, respectful relationships, intellectual curiosity, and emotional empathy—especially towards policymakers and public servants (19:25–23:15).

  "It's evidence plus contextual understanding plus deep rooted, respectful, and trustful relationships, plus being able to read the moment… If those are missing, then even a good idea or a good piece of evidence doesn't go far."
  — Rakesh Rajani (19:25)

• Funders, Implementers & Relational Accountability:
  Recognizing funder anxiety and the intrinsic motivation of local implementers, Rajani calls for more empathetic, trusting partnerships that allow for flexibility and learning from failure (24:11).

Scaling South–South Innovations to Global Policy

• From Uwezo to the World Bank:
  The 2018 WDR’s foundational insights—especially the distinction between education inputs and learning outcomes—were grounded in locally produced ASER and Uwezo data. This choice marked a departure from the norm of centering official international sources (27:33–36:16).

  "We wanted to really get these basic facts that people would remember because people are never going to remember a whole report. So where there was good data, we wanted to use it."
  — Halsey Rogers (36:16)

• Why Locally Rooted Data Mattered:
  The data made the learning crisis "visible" and relatable, anchoring global discussions and policy shifts by expressing learning failures in terms everyone could grasp (e.g., "3/4 of Grade 3 students could not read a simple sentence," 36:16–41:39).

  "If you tell them facts like the ones I just said… everybody understands that's a problem."
  — Halsey Rogers (39:04)

The Legacy and Impact of the 2018 WDR

• Three Keys to Impact (42:41):

  1. Focused Storyline, Right Team: Kept the narrative anchored on foundational learning, drawing on local research and direct experience.
  2. Wave of Empirical Research: Leveraged explosion in rigorous, often homegrown, research on what works in education.
  3. New, Accessible Metrics: Developed practical, understandable indicators (not just policy jargon or elite measures like PISA), which enabled broad support and sustained momentum.

  "We didn't mince words. We said there is a learning crisis. And at the time that was not an uncontroversial decision to use that term."
  — Halsey Rogers (42:41)

• Participatory, Locally Resonant Communication:
  The importance of shaping messages and data presentations that make sense to communities, not just policymakers or donors (41:39).

Personal & Memorable Moments

• Music as a Metaphor for Simplicity in Messaging:
  Halsey shares a fond memory of a World Bank talent show where research messages were put to song, demonstrating the power of simple, resonant communication—and the institutional shift that had taken place (47:27–48:57).

  "Perhaps the bar should be that research report messages should be translatable into music… we should be able to sing about them."
  — Ishani Khanpal (48:57)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "Data can help reveal new things that we were not aware of… It can be a way of having a common conversation rather than talking past each other."
  — Rakesh Rajani (04:19)

• "We did it at an even larger scale than in India… At the beginning, we were surveying 200,000 households every year."
  — Rakesh Rajani (08:00)

• "Had we taken the time to exercise some empathy… we might have realized [the data] also created a sort of humiliation for people in government."
  — Rakesh Rajani (11:14)

• "It's evidence plus contextual understanding plus deep rooted, respectful, and trustful relationships, plus being able to read the moment… If those are missing, then even a good idea or a good piece of evidence doesn't go far."
  — Rakesh Rajani (19:25)

• "We wanted to really get these basic facts that people would remember because people are never going to remember a whole report. So where there was good data, we wanted to use it."
  — Halsey Rogers (36:16)

• "If you tell them facts like the ones I just said… everybody understands that's a problem."
  — Halsey Rogers (39:04)

• "We didn't mince words. We said there is a learning crisis. And at the time that was not an uncontroversial decision to use that term."
  — Halsey Rogers (42:41)

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:19] — Rajani on the role and limits of data in governance
• [06:06] — Evolution from schooling access to learning outcomes
• [08:00] — Replicating ASER in East Africa: the birth and scale of Uwezo
• [10:33] — Government resistance to citizen-led learning assessments
• [13:53] — The limits of data alone; importance of institutions and relationships
• [19:25] — The human side of evidence: respect, relationships, and empathy
• [27:33] — Transition: The influence of Uwezo and ASER on global reports
• [36:16] — Halsey Rogers on centering local data in the WDR
• [39:04] — Explaining the power of accessible, community-rooted facts
• [41:39] — The need for data to make sense to communities
• [42:41] — Three keys to policy impact: focus, research, metrics
• [47:27] — Personal anecdote: Singing the WDR at a World Bank talent show

Conclusion & Takeaways

• Locally produced, citizen-led data initiatives like Uwezo and ASER have not only shed light on the learning crisis but have also meaningfully influenced how international organizations set priorities and measure success.
• True policy transformation involves more than data; it requires relationships, humility, context, and the courage to challenge entrenched narratives—while also recognizing the political and emotional dimensions of reform.
• Communicating data in accessible, community-relevant ways (sometimes even through song!) is vital for creating broad, lasting change.