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"Emergency Development" Needed in Syrian Refugee Crisis – UNDP’s Helen Clark
00:17:56
With millions of people displaced, governments and institutions are shifting their focus from traditional humanitarian relief to more sustainable ways to help. Helen Clark discusses how "emergency development" will shape the future of the UNDP.
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- [00:05]
A
Hello, I'm Rajesh Merchandani. Thanks very much for joining me for this edition of the CGD podcast. Now, exactly 50 years ago this year, the United nations created a new agency, the UN Development Program. The Secretary General at the time said the UNDP would put the UN on the front line of the global war on want. Well now the UNDP is the UN's largest agency. It operates in 170 countries working to eradicate poverty, reduce inequality and exclusion, build resilience, strengthen governance, prevent crisis, help recovery and all points in between. But the nature of need is changing. On one hand, the last half century has seen unprecedented global economic growth helping to reduce poverty. And amazing technological advances have transformed development. And of course now we have global consensus in the form of the all encompassing Sustainable Development Goals. But on the other hand, economic inequality is a bigger issue than ever before. Climate change threatens our planet and our livelihoods, and conflict and violence still stalk the earth. So how is UNDP changing to reflect the new realities? Helen Clark has been in charge at UNDP AS administrator since 2009. Before that of course, she was the Prime Minister of New Zealand and she joins me on the podcast. Welcome Miss.
- [01:20]
B
Thank you.
- [01:21]
A
How much harder has your job become since you started? And if so, why?
- [01:26]
B
Well, what's become harder is this series of new and catastrophic events based on conflict around the world that has diverted a lot of money from plain ordinary development in countries that are stable into often middle income countries which have been torn apart by conflict. Think Syria for example. Think of the needs of Lebanon and, and Jordan with the spillover effects and so on. That's been the big change. When I first came to undp I used to get speech notes that said, you know, the rate of conflict is down. Don't say that anymore because the rate of conflict is up. But the interesting thing to me is it's not the kind of conflict that the UN envisaged tackling when it was formed 70 years ago. Then it was formed on the ashes of World War II. Having seen the League of Nations fail to prevent a second world War. So it's about how do you try to stop wars between nations? By and large, very successful. But do we have less conflict? We have horrible conflicts. We have the almost 60 million people who are forcibly displaced from their homes. We have the violent extremist groups, the disparate non state actors. Speaking to staff from our office in Libya and Tripoli recently, they made the point that for 41 militia are in control of different parts of Tripoli. So this is the world we live in, it is very, very complicated.
- [02:55]
A
And the impact also is being seen on how aid is deployed. For example, in 2012, 80% of the OECD's humanitarian assistance went to long term projects rather than short term disasters. I mean, humanitarian aid is becoming development aid. So what are the implications of that?
- [03:12]
B
For actually this is to be welcomed because there's huge interest now in how to get more sustainable approaches to supporting people caught up in these protracted crises. If we take the Syria crisis pretty much solidly, for the first three years, the focus was on humanitarian relief. Refugees are in other countries, they need relief, people within Syria need relief. But as the crisis went on, the penny well and truly dropped with partners that this wasn't sustainable. And the emphasis has gone back on to how do we support the people caught up in these devastating events to build their own resilience, to have an income, to have the water, the power, the services, be able to put the children into school. So emergency development has become the name of the game because even though humanitarian relief spending has tripled in the last decade, it's still not enough. So, so the emphasis is on how do you shrink the need for it by supporting people's innate resilience and capacity to stand on their own feet.
- [04:15]
A
But given the length that people spend as refugees now, the length of time, many years, given the almost permanence of some refugee camps like Dadaab in Kenya, or the way that people, Syrian refugees, are living permanently, effectively in informal settlements in neighboring countries, that's a development issue as opposed to humanitarian issue. So how does that affect how you guys approach your work? I mean, should you be working in 170 countries now or should you be focusing on the countries where there's greatest need?
- [04:45]
B
You see, most of the forcibly displaced are not in camps, they're in communities. And one of the significant developments now in the conversations between the funding partners and the host countries of this significant numbers of refugees, like Turkey, like Lebanon, like Jordan, is enabling the refugees to be able to work legally. Turkey actually has moved on this. It legislated last year and since its second round of elections last year, it's now put in place the regulation for legal work. We're also optimistic in Jordan that this will happen. And there's a lot of conversations between the partners and Lebanon on this as well. Because if people can legally work and they're not going to be exploited because they're going to work anyway, but it's better that it's legal, but then there's the basis for income and self reliance. So this is really, the focus has shifted to developmental approaches to people caught up in these horrific crises. Now to come back to the second part of your question. I am a strong defender of UNDP's universal presence because we learn a lot from being active in the whole spectrum of countries. And we're also extremely supportive of south south cooperation and sharing knowledge of what works in different contexts. So what we learn, for example, operating in a high middle income country like Mexico becomes very relevant to countries which are trying to move up the development ladder. They want to know how did Mexico do social protection, how did it get its electoral system to a good state? So there's a lot of knowledge sharing that goes on from one's presence and in a high middle income country right through to a least developed country.
- [06:28]
A
So you see, you're satisfied that there is a role for you to play, UNDP to play in a high middle income country like Mexico.
- [06:36]
B
Sure. And we stay because Mexico wants us to stay. Of course, the kind of work we do is very much in tune with what are the government's priorities for accessing the services of a major development organisation like undp. But increasingly countries like Mexico are seeing us as significant partners with their south south cooperation. And we've had quite specific projects around that to support the development of Mexico's Development Cooperation Agency. Identify the fields in which they might be active. For example, did they want to focus on particular geographical areas for cooperation? Did they want to focus on particular thematic areas like the electoral experience or the cash transfer schemes? So it's very, very interesting to me how we can tailor our mandate and expertise to the specific needs of countries all the way along the spectrum from the low income to the high middle income.
- [07:34]
A
Let's talk about the. Let's carry on talking about the Syrian refugee crisis because that is the thing that's kind of looming largest in terms of global crises. What do you think about the policies of relatively rich countries to close their borders to refugees and migrants? And how is that going to impact the work that you do if you're not getting this kind of global consensus or global cooperation that one might need?
- [08:00]
B
Well, let's sort of start at the other end of that question. The solution for the Syrian refugees is an end to the conflict. It's the political talks that are going on in Geneva which all support must be given to. And I'm actually more hopeful than I've ever been that something can come of this now. And if we can get an outcome from that and go into a transition, I Can tell you UNDP would expect to be very, very busy in Syria because the transition will require some kind of national dialogue, a new constitution, elections, building the capacity of new institutions. It's becomes a very, very interesting transition for us to be supporting.
- [08:45]
A
Sure. But even if they're confident tomorrow, those millions of people who've fled Syria are not going home to the end.
- [08:50]
B
Well, you know, a lot of people will go home if they see that peace is coming back and there's a chance to be part of building a new Syria. People will go back, particularly those who are positioned in the neighbourhood. They're just over the border, they're positioned to go back. I went to Gaussian Tep in South East Turkey last year. It's literally down the road from Aleppo. So people are poised to go home. So for us that's the big international emphasis must be on that. Secondly, we have emphasised stabilization of people's circumstances within Syria. We've put a lot of attention onto job creation, micro business, basic services, and then pretty much the same in the neighbouring countries. How can we support the municipality whose services are under pressure? How do we support municipal leaders on community tolerance, acceptance of people who've fled their homes? How do we support the livelihoods? So if we can get these things right, of course the pressure goes off the flows through to Europe. But where I think Europe does need to be helpful is with the UN High Commission for Refugees in helping orderly relocation of people with a processed and agreed refugee claim to be able to settle elsewhere.
- [10:05]
A
But only people who are legitimate refugees in fear of their lives because they're economic migrants coming in as well.
- [10:13]
B
The flows of people have had a huge range of circumstances. And you're right, I mean, a number have come, for example, from the Indian subcontinent who are looking for economic hopes. I might say this is the human story. People have always aspired to improve their circumstances. I come from a line of people who travel 12,000 miles away from Britain by sailing ship to better their circumstances. So I have some insight into the human condition. Always wanting to do better. Actually, if we address root causes of that, it's opportunity, it's work, it's, it's hope. If you can create that at home, then the pressures on migration lessen.
- [10:57]
A
Do you think so? I mean, the research seems to indicate that if you make people less poor at home, they are actually, they have more of the agency to make the trip and they're more likely to migrate. Migration is such a good thing for development.
- [11:13]
B
I've looked at this from a New Zealand perspective for many years. And what we found was that with a point system where people came on the basis of skills in education, we initially got a lot of people from major emerging economies in Asia. But many, having got the experience and education, went home, might have kept a passport, but they went home. Because fundamentally, and I hate to say it as a Kiwi, but life in Shanghai is more exciting than life in Auckland or Wellington. That's the reality. And I think there might come a time when Western countries, with their declining demographics, are really rather desperate to attract people and people are saying, but it's more exciting back here in Mumbai or Guangzhou.
- [11:59]
A
The air is probably cleaner.
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B
In Auckland, the air is definitely cleaner. That's a big advantage.
- [12:04]
A
And you guys. Actually, New Zealand had this fantastic scheme with one of the Pacific islands, wasn't it? Was it a temporary visa scheme? I can't quite remember the details of it. You may know.
- [12:11]
B
Yes, I do, because it was an initiative when I was Prime Minister. Firstly, we expanded permanent resident quotas for the Pacific. We've long had them with Samoa, but we expanded to other countries. Secondly, we have seasonal labour needs and there is a big labour pool in the Pacific which is looking for work, but doesn't necessarily want to migrate to a metropolitan country. So we created a scheme, government to government arrangements with a number of Pacific countries where people could come to New Zealand legally for periods of four to seven months a year, and providing they went home at the end of the permit, they were very welcome to come back next year. I have been to a village in Vanuatu to see what the improvements were in that village with the remittances that came back. It was transformational.
- [12:56]
A
Yeah, I think it was called one of the biggest, most important, most successful temporary labour program migration programmes.
- [13:03]
B
Very, very proud of it. And it happens every year.
- [13:07]
A
We quote it a lot here at CGD in our work on migration. Let's talk a little bit again about the undp, the future of the undp. Every UN agency is under budgetary pressure. Undp, not least, I know that your budgets have been cut, the administrative budgets have been cut. How do you then stay relevant in the future when, as we've talked about, there is greater need and with the SDG process, I mean, that's a kind of monumental size need.
- [13:31]
B
Well, the money flowing through UNDP GDP is not dissimilar to what it was when I came before the full impact of the global financial crisis was felt. What has happened is that the core untagged budgets are down, but if you are fleet of foot and able to present a good case. There's a lot of non core funding around, so we have about $5.3 billion go through the books a year. It's a very, very large. So what we've done is work to adjust our business model so that it is one that really is attuned to a low core funding base, but an organisation that has a lot of money go through it. So I'm pretty confident that if we continue to stay at the top of the game, and something like being at the top of the Aid Transparency Index is incredibly important, reputationally, we will continue to be a partner of choice for the major funders.
- [14:24]
A
What do you see as the future priorities of undp, given the changing need? Let's just kind of pin that down. If you had five things that you think, okay, this is what we need to focus on in the future, how have they changed or have they shifted? What have they shifted to?
- [14:37]
B
Well, we're totally aligned with Agenda 2030 and the SDGs. And so we've obviously looked at the SDGs and said where do we add the most value? We have our big mandated areas. We work on democratic governance, we work on poverty eradication, we work on sustainable development overall. How do you develop without wrecking the planet? And so bringing together the climate, the environmental degradation, the biodiversity issues with how one grows an economy and eradicates poverty. And then there's the emergency development part of it, which sadly has been the growth business. We would prefer not to be in that growth business. We would prefer to be in positive transitions in, in development. But certainly we've stepped up our act to be very relevant in Syria, in Lebanon and Jordan and Turkey and Yemen and so on, because the needs are so dire.
- [15:30]
A
One last thing, Alan Clark, you yourself are now a candidate for the Secretary General's office, one of nine candidates. So with that hat on, what for you? What do you think should be the priorities for the UN in the coming years? What ideas do you have to achieve them? And how do you kind of overcome the kind of inherent problems, the kind of impasse within, say, the Security Council or the permanent members of the Security Council?
- [15:57]
B
For me, the critical thing is to face the reality that the nature of conflict has changed fundamentally and that the tools that are being deployed are not adequate to the task because the UN doesn't comprehensively draw on all its strengths. I know from the work we do in development that if we can shift the focus to the long term investment in the stable, inclusive society, we will see less conflict in the future. But so often I think the UN is seen in the role of firemen. It's rushing off to where the next outbreak of the fire has come, come. And I think what I can bring to leadership of the UN is a perspective that says, yes, we've got to have a response capacity and it's got to be more nimble and fleet of foot and better organized and better administered. But let us play with all the tools in the toolbox here and let us have much more joined up action across the humanitarian development, political, peace building and human rights pillars of the UN I think as a minimum, we need to have joint analysis across these pillars. We have to have more joint planning, more joint programming. Otherwise we're all playing in silos and that is not providing the best value for the international community.
- [17:19]
A
Okay. Helen Clark, it's been fascinating to talk with you. Thank you very much for joining me on the podcast.
- [17:23]
B
Thank you.
- [17:24]
A
You can find out much more about our work on our website, cgdev.org, and also go to the website to see video of the keynote remarks that Helen Clark gave at a recent CGG event on transparency and development. That address again, cgdev.org and of course, remember to join me, Rajesh Merchandani, for the next podcast from the center for Global Development.