The CGD Podcast: Interview with John Briscoe, Winner of the 2014 Stockholm Water Prize

Date: March 21, 2014
Host: Lawrence MacDonald (Center for Global Development)
Guest: John Briscoe (Visiting Fellow at CGD, Professor at Harvard University)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Lawrence MacDonald of the Center for Global Development interviews John Briscoe, a globally recognized authority on water and development, and recent winner of the 2014 Stockholm Water Prize. The conversation spans Briscoe’s unique career, his views on water management, reflections on field experiences in Bangladesh, Mozambique, and Brazil, and his perspectives on agricultural development and investment in Africa.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Significance of the Stockholm Water Prize

[00:57] – [02:17]

• Recognition of "thinking practitioners": Briscoe characterizes the award as honoring not just himself but a community of water experts who combine hands-on management with critical, reflective thinking.
  • "The way in which I choose to interpret it is that I consider myself to be a representative of a particular community... the thinking practitioners." – Briscoe [01:19]
• He distinguishes his approach from those who are only academics or bureaucrats, emphasizing the importance of practical experience in managing complex water systems.

2. Briscoe’s Background and Motivations

[02:17] – [03:12]

• Personal connection to water scarcity: Briscoe reflects on growing up in South Africa, noting the formative impact of water scarcity.
  • "Water, I think, is very visceral for all of us, but particularly for those who have grown up in arid environments." – Briscoe [03:12]
• He invokes E.O. Wilson’s phrase: "godlike technologies, medieval institutions, and Paleolithic emotions", applying it to the challenges of water management [03:30].

3. Water’s Role in Economic Development

[04:07] – [05:50]

• The "water platform" for growth: Briscoe discusses the idea that regions like New England, with stable water conditions, enabled the Industrial Revolution, leading to wealth that funded complex infrastructure in more challenging environments like the American West.
  • "Mother Nature had constructed what you could think of as the water platform for growth in New England.” – Briscoe [04:39]
• He draws a parallel to current developing countries needing support to build their water infrastructure.

4. Critiquing Western Policy Perspectives

[06:22] – [08:37]

• Policy disconnect: Briscoe recounts his first blog post challenging Senator Leahy's anti-hydro stance, noting how those in developed regions often lack personal experience with insecurity in food, water, or energy.
  • "There’s a tremendous issue...of people who have never known what it is to be insecure...telling people who have to yet construct that security in their societies..." – Briscoe [07:23]
• Emphasizes that policy decisions about developing countries are too often made from distant, secure places like Washington or Northern Europe.

5. Humbling Lessons from Bangladesh

[08:37] – [11:35]

• Field experience and changing views: Briscoe describes living in a Bangladeshi village and initially opposing an embankment project as destructive. Upon returning 22 years later, he found remarkable improvements in life expectancy and livelihoods, almost entirely attributed to the embankment.
  • "Are you stupid? It's the embankment." – Villager, relayed by Briscoe [10:47]
• This experience humbled Briscoe and revealed the transformative, sometimes underappreciated, value of infrastructure.

6. Learning from the Ground Up

[11:35] – [12:14]

• Empathy for local realities: Briscoe emphasizes the importance of understanding development impacts from the perspective of those directly affected, not from academic or policy debates.

7. Water and Agricultural Innovation in Brazil

[13:20] – [15:58]

• Brazil’s pragmatic approach: Briscoe recounts a pivotal conversation between President Lula and agricultural engineer Roberto Rodriguez, who convinced Lula that Brazil's future depended on knowledge-intensive, large-scale agriculture, not smallholder-focused models.
  • "With all due respect, you were elected as president of Brazil, but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard..." – Roberto Rodriguez, relayed by Briscoe [16:21]
• Highlights how Brazil harnessed research and scale to become the world’s top soybean producer, outperforming the US and transforming previously unsuitable land.

8. The Debate on Foreign Agricultural Investment in Africa

[18:16] – [22:08]

• Land grabs vs. productive investment: Briscoe argues that negative publicity about land acquisitions can deter needed agricultural investment, referencing economist Paul Collier’s story about a progressive investment in the DRC.
  • "...many of those very important and good endeavors which will provide essentially a springboard for broad development in Africa are being branded...as land grabs." – Briscoe [20:10]
• Balanced approach: Briscoe insists that investment shouldn’t displace local people, but rather employ and benefit them through increased productivity and new economic linkages.
  • "Should you come in and shove the people off the land? Absolutely not...These are all employment drivers that local people will and should be the beneficiaries of." – Briscoe [21:33]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "We're living today with godlike technologies, medieval institutions, and Paleolithic emotions...and that's what water's about." – Briscoe quoting E.O. Wilson [03:30]
• "Are you stupid? It's the embankment." – Villager in Bangladesh, explaining transformative change [10:47]
• "With all due respect, you were elected as president of Brazil, but that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard..." – Roberto Rodriguez to President Lula (relayed by Briscoe) [16:21]
• "There is a tremendous issue in the development business of people who have never known what it is to be insecure in this variety of ways... then telling people ... how ... that should be done." – Briscoe [07:23]

Important Segments & Timestamps

• Introduction to John Briscoe and Stockholm Water Prize: [00:33] – [02:17]
• On water scarcity, emotion, and technology: [03:12] – [04:07]
• Water as a driver of the Industrial Revolution: [04:07] – [05:50]
• Disconnect between Western policymakers and developing world realities: [06:22] – [08:37]
• Bangladesh embankment story and personal transformation: [08:37] – [11:35]
• Brazil, President Lula, and agricultural policy: [13:20] – [16:21]
• Debate on foreign investment in African agriculture: [18:16] – [22:08]

Tone & Style

Briscoe speaks plainly, drawing on direct experience and showing humility about changing one’s mind. He mixes anecdotes with analysis, retaining an emphasis on real-world outcomes over theoretical or ideological purity.

Conclusion

John Briscoe’s reflections deliver a powerful message about the practical realities of development. His career illustrates the value of lived experience and humility, the benefits infrastructure can deliver when done thoughtfully, and the danger of hasty policy judgments unanchored from the experience of those on the ground. His stories from Africa, Asia, and South America echo the need for balancing innovation with local context, pragmatism, and empathy.