Podcast Summary: The CGD Podcast – Interview with WTO Candidate Amina Mohamed
Host: Lawrence MacDonald (Center for Global Development)
Guest: Amina Mohamed, Assistant Secretary General, UNEP, and WTO Director General Candidate
Date: April 11, 2013
Overview
In this insightful episode, Lawrence MacDonald interviews Amina Mohamed, a seasoned diplomat and candidate for Director General of the World Trade Organization (WTO). The conversation dives into Mohamed’s experience with WTO governance and negotiation, her unique approach to global trade challenges—especially the ongoing Doha Round—and the relevance of the WTO in addressing climate change and issues around free trade agreements. Mohamed’s candid reflections offer a forward-thinking vision for the future trajectory of the WTO.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Experience with WTO Governance and the DG Selection Process
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Background: Mohamed chaired the WTO General Council in 2005, overseeing the previous selection of a Director General and the preparation for a ministerial meeting; she critiques how these two large processes often run simultaneously, creating distractions.
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Quote:
“It's always a very challenging two processes to carry forward at the same time. And I'm actually hoping that going forward, we have to think of what ways in which we can delink the two...”
—Amina Mohamed [01:06] -
She notes the selection process has become more complex, with nine candidates in the current cycle versus four previously, leading to extended timelines.
“When I was chairing the General Council, we did it in one day. This time it was done in three days...”
—Amina Mohamed [02:15]
2. Achievements within the WTO: TRIPS Agreement Amendment
- Proudest Accomplishment: Mohamed highlights her leadership in amending the TRIPS Agreement, pivotal in allowing compulsory licensing and enabling the production and import of generic drugs for HIV/AIDS, malaria, and tuberculosis, making medicines both accessible and affordable in Africa.
- Quote:
“It was historic in all sense. First that we were able to amend the treaty, but also because of the contribution that amendment actually made to saving lives in Africa. Millions of lives were saved just because the drugs were not just accessible, they're also affordable.”
—Amina Mohamed [05:08]
3. Lessons from TRIPS for Breaking the Doha Round Deadlock
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Key Lesson: Mohamed learned the WTO is not dogmatic or rigid, but can adapt and compromise when confronted with substantial humanitarian challenges.
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Quote:
“...the WTO was not about dogma, it wasn't about rigidity, that it was flexible, that it could adapt, it could improve things, it could... make the compromises that we needed to make to make sure that we made progress...”
—Amina Mohamed [06:57] -
On Doha: Although the stakes are high, they are less immediate and pressing than the public health crisis. Mohamed argues that solutions should lie in inclusive, transparent Geneva-based negotiations involving professional negotiators, rather than frequent, high-pressure minisummits elsewhere.
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Quote:
“We need to make sure that these negotiations take place mainly in Geneva... and, you know, just refrain from that temptation to always take these discussions elsewhere.”
—Amina Mohamed [08:32]
4. Critique of Mini-Ministerials
- Effectiveness Questioned: Mohamed challenges the notion that frequent “mini-ministerials” increase progress, noting that the deadlock has persisted despite numerous such meetings.
- Quote:
“If that was true, we wouldn't have a deadlock for 11 years... It doesn't make sense to me that in half a day, ministers...would break the deadlock.”
—Amina Mohamed [10:47]
5. The WTO and Climate Change: A Call for Engagement
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Unique Perspective: Mohamed is the only candidate to explicitly address the WTO's potential role in climate change mitigation.
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Importance of Trade Liberalization in Environmental Goods: She argues that climate change deeply impacts trade—production and delivery of goods—and thus the WTO must be “part of global problem solving”.
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Quote:
“The WTO has to be part of global problem solving. It cannot be outside that framework. Climate change is an issue of global concern... floods, famine, drought... affect the production of goods, their flow...and basically the volume of trade.”
—Amina Mohamed [12:23] -
On Environmental Goods:
“WTO negotiates rules, and these rules...impact...the movement, the production of goods and services.”
—Amina Mohamed [13:29-13:49]
6. Subsidies: Solar Panels & Fisheries
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China’s Solar Subsidies: Mohamed contends that subsidies are only problematic if they violate competition rules; otherwise, they can be globally beneficial.
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Quote (on Chinese solar panels):
“If it affects competition, if it gives them an edge over other producers, then there's a problem. If it doesn't, yes...of course it would.”
—Amina Mohamed [14:31] -
Fisheries Subsidies: She highlights the harmful impact of subsidies, leading to overfishing and stock depletion.
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Quote:
“The subsidies accelerate the depletion of the stocks and the destruction of the fisheries... So we need to look at them and see ways in which maybe we can suspend them for a while...”
—Amina Mohamed [15:31-15:49]
7. Vision for the WTO: Priorities and Reform
- Top Priorities:
- Reinvigorating negotiations to fulfill the WTO’s mission of rule-setting and market opening.
- Bringing more stakeholders—including business, civil society, and the media—into the WTO’s work for broader engagement.
- Updating the negotiating agenda and integrating newly acceded countries.
- Building coalitions for implementation and market opening.
- Quote:
“The WTO was established in order to set rules and open markets...We should not move away from that. So that has to be, for me, the top priority.”
—Amina Mohamed [17:27]
8. Navigating the Proliferation of Free Trade Agreements (FTAs)
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Coexistence with Multilateralism: Mohamed acknowledges the proliferation of FTAs (now involving 90% of WTO members) but stresses the primacy of the multilateral trading system and the need to anchor any FTA within the WTO framework, particularly its dispute settlement system (DSU).
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Quote:
“What we need to just ensure is that in fact the primacy of the multilateral trading system is not questioned. It's not in doubt. The other one is to make sure that in fact any trade agreement of any category has as a basis the principle of non discrimination....”
—Amina Mohamed [19:18] -
On dispute settlement:
“The DSU is one of the strongest pillars of the world trade...So we should not lose it.”
—Amina Mohamed [20:34]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- WTO Governance & Selection Process: [00:29]–[02:24]
- Proudest Achievement: TRIPS Amendment: [03:10]–[05:27]
- Lessons from TRIPS for Doha Negotiations: [06:55]–[08:52]
- Critique of Mini-Ministerials: [09:13]–[11:19]
- WTO’s Role in Climate Change: [12:23]–[13:49]
- Subsidies & Environmental Goods: [14:13]–[15:49]
- Vision & Priorities as DG: [17:04]–[18:57]
- FTAs & Multilateral System: [18:57]–[21:16]
Notable Quotes
- “First that we were able to amend the treaty, but also because of the contribution that amendment actually made to saving lives in Africa. Millions of lives were saved...” —Amina Mohamed [05:08]
- “We need to make sure that these negotiations take place mainly in Geneva... just refrain from that temptation to always take these discussions elsewhere.” —Amina Mohamed [08:32]
- “If that was true, we wouldn't have a deadlock for 11 years... It doesn't make sense to me that in half a day, ministers...would break the deadlock.” —Amina Mohamed [10:47]
- “The WTO has to be part of global problem solving. It cannot be outside that framework. Climate change is an issue of global concern…” —Amina Mohamed [12:23]
- “[Subsidies to fisheries] accelerate the depletion of the stocks and the destruction of the fisheries... So we need to look at them and see ways in which maybe we can suspend them for a while...” —Amina Mohamed [15:31-15:49]
Memorable Moments
- Mohamed’s insistence on negotiation discipline—focusing discussions in Geneva, harnessing the professional negotiators, rather than “mini-ministerials” and high-profile interventions that rarely resolve deadlocks.
- Her historical reflection on achieving the TRIPS Amendment as saving millions of lives in Africa, a unique success in WTO history.
- Her focus on integrating climate change into trade discussions—an unusual move among WTO leadership candidates at the time.
- A compelling argument for keeping the multilateral trade rule system at the heart of global commerce, even as bilateral and regional trade agreements proliferate.
Conclusion
Amina Mohamed’s interview provides a rare inside perspective on global trade leadership, blending pride in concrete humanitarian achievements with pragmatic, forward-thinking policy proposals. Her unique voice stands out in the leadership race—emphasizing flexibility, inclusivity, and the need for the WTO to tackle emerging issues like climate change and the challenge of FTAs while reinvigorating its core negotiation mission. This episode is a valuable resource for anyone interested in the evolving role of the WTO in the global economic order.