Interview with WTO Candidate Anabel Gonzalez

Summary

The CGD Podcast: Interview with WTO Candidate Anabel Gonzalez

Date: February 25, 2013
Host: Lawrence MacDonald (Center for Global Development)
Guest: Anabel Gonzalez, Minister of Foreign Trade for Costa Rica, candidate for Director General of the WTO

---

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth interview with Anabel Gonzalez, Costa Rica's Minister of Foreign Trade and a candidate to lead the World Trade Organization (WTO). Gonzalez discusses her motivation for seeking the position, her vision for the WTO’s future, the importance of trade for development (especially for small and developing countries), and key policy challenges facing the organization, including the ongoing Doha Round and the need for modernization to address emerging global issues.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Anabel Gonzalez’s Motivation for Candidacy

• Gonzalez is a passionate advocate of trade as a means to promote growth and development, drawing from Costa Rica’s economic transformation as a case in point.
  • "I am a very strong believer in the power of trade to promote growth and development. As a matter of fact, I've seen it work. I've seen it work in my own country..." (B, 00:59)
• Her desire is to contribute to unleashing the power of trade, particularly for developing countries, through a strong WTO.

2. Gonzalez’s Experience with the WTO

• Gonzalez has longstanding ties to the WTO, participating as a negotiator, dispute settler, capacity builder, and director of the WTO’s Agricultural Division.
  • "I've also worked at the WTO. I was the Director of the Agricultural Division for a few years. I've also participated in activating the dispute settlement process to defend Costa Rica's interest. I've also provided trade capacity building to WTO members." (B, 02:33)
• Her breadth of experience gives her insight into both the multilateral and bilateral dimensions of global trade.

3. Value of a Rules-Based WTO for Small Countries

• Gonzalez emphasizes that while the WTO is critical for all countries, it is especially vital for small and medium-sized nations that lack negotiating leverage in bilateral or plurilateral talks.
• Cites a Costa Rican case where their successful use of WTO dispute settlement against the US protected their export interests—a landmark illustration of the organization's importance for smaller countries.
  • "Costa Rica was the first small country to activate the brand new system at the time and in that case against the United States... we activated the system and we won the case..." (B, 04:23)

4. The Doha Round: Prospects and Realism

• Gonzalez acknowledges skepticism about reviving Doha but identifies potential for progress at the upcoming Bali Ministerial, especially around trade facilitation.
  • "We have a great opportunity in front of us in the next ministerial conference... to deliver an agreement on trade facilitation." (B, 07:17)
• She argues that delivering tangible results could reinvigorate confidence in the WTO’s ability to negotiate, and that trade facilitation (simplifying customs and border procedures) is particularly beneficial for developing countries.
• She sees trade facilitation as both a trade and aid agenda, with potential for capacity building, supported through existing national, regional, and multilateral efforts.

5. The Role of Democracy and Membership Diversity in the WTO

• Responding to debates on whether ‘too much democracy’ impedes progress (one country, one vote vs. large-country dominance), Gonzalez advocates for pluralism and flexibility:
  • "With such a wide membership, it is important to look at other formats as possible ways of reaching agreement... it could be other formats such as prelateral agreements or critical mass agreements." (B, 12:09)
• She stresses that all agreements should remain open to all members, but recognizes that different issues may require different modes of decision-making.

6. Over-the-Horizon Issues: Climate, Food, and Beyond

• The future agenda of the WTO, according to Gonzalez, must encompass new and emerging topics such as trade and climate change, food security, investment, and global value chains.
  • "There is no subject that should be taboo for the House of Trade... I think it would be good to promote the dialogue within the WTO on a number of these issues." (B, 15:57)

7. WTO Dispute Adjudication Reform

• Addressing concerns about the independence of WTO judges, Gonzalez expresses broad confidence in the current system, while acknowledging space for improvement.
  • "It is perfectable as everything, but I think overall it is a good system... and I think it is something for the members to consider." (B, 18:06)
• She notes ongoing reform discussions among WTO members and the incremental nature of change.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trade and Development:
  "Development is very close to my heart. I come from a developing country, and I would like to have the opportunity to continue to work with members in strengthening the organization for the benefit of all members, as I said in the beginning, but certainly for the benefit of developing countries." (B, 19:18)

• On Institutional Adaptability:
  "These are forces that go beyond... the WTO and global trade, if you wish." (B, 12:09)

• On New Issues in Global Trade:
  "There is no subject that should be taboo for the House of Trade..." (B, 15:57)

• On Pluralism and Formats:
  "The political energy to re-energizing the global trading system can come from different, in different formats, I believe." (B, 12:09)

---

Key Segments & Timestamps

| Time | Topic | |----------|-----------| | 00:10 | Introduction and guest welcome | | 00:55 | Motivation for candidacy and power of trade | | 02:18 | Entry into WTO work and broader experience | | 03:48 | Importance of rules-based system, especially for small countries | | 06:35 | Doha Round: potential, trade facilitation, skepticism | | 09:05 | Defining and defending trade facilitation; aid-for-trade dynamic | | 11:11 | Democracy vs. large countries’ role; organization’s changing membership | | 14:35 | Over-the-horizon agendas: climate, food, investment, value chains | | 17:12 | WTO dispute adjudication and judicial independence | | 19:05 | Closing thoughts: importance for developing countries, vision as Director General |

---

Summary of Tone and Takeaways

Gonzalez is articulate and optimistic, balancing realistic assessments of institutional inertia with faith in the WTO’s capacity for renewal and reform. Her advocacy for inclusivity, flexibility, and relevance in the face of new challenges comes through strongly. She repeatedly returns to the idea that the WTO is indispensable for both large and small states—especially developing ones—and that future leadership must both respect tradition and embrace innovation.

For listeners interested in the evolution of global trade governance and the practical challenges of multilateralism, this episode offers valuable insight from a practitioner with deep-rooted experience and a development-centered outlook.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Global Prosperity wonkcast. I'm Lawrence MacDonald and I'm delighted that my guest today is Annabel Gonzalez. She is the Minister of Foreign Trade for Costa Rica and one of nine candidates to become the next Director General of the World Trade Organization, the wto. This is one in a series of interviews we're doing with as many of the candidates as choose to accept our invitation. Minister Gonzalez, welcome to the show.

[B]

Thank you very much, Lawrence, and thank you very much for having me.

[A]

I know your schedule in Washington is very busy. Before we started, you were telling me you've been making the rounds at the State Department. You had a public event today at csis. You're seeing quite a lot of the movers and shakers in US trade policy. So I really appreciate your taking the time to be here with us.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Why do you want to be the next head of the wto?

[B]

Well, you know, I had my daughter ask me the same question when I. When I first started considering this. And I would have to say that I am a very strong believer in the power of trade to promote growth and development. As a matter of fact, I've seen it work. I've seen it work in my own country, which is a country that has transformed itself from being an exporter of four or five commodities to an exporter of over 4,300 different products, including everything from computer parts to hard bulbs to, yeah, coffee and bananas as well. So I've seen the power of trade and I believe that the World Trade Organization is a very important institution to promote trade. So, you know, in a way, I think probably it is a desire to contribute at a greater level to, you know, to unleash the power of trade for the benefit of all WTO members, but in particular for the benefit of developing country members.

[A]

I read in your statement to the wto, your statement of candidacy, that as a young trade official, it was you who signed the instruments for Costa Rica secession to the gatt, the predecessor to the wto.

[B]

Well, at that time. Actually, I was accompanying the Minister of Foreign Trade at the time who signed those instruments. But yes, it was back in 1989 when I first got the opportunity of learning about the organization and attending this very important ceremony. But from there on, I have been able to be involved with the WTO in many different capacities as a negotiator in the Uruguay Round and Doha Rounds, as a delegate in several meetings, including several ministerial conferences. I've also worked at the wto. I was the Director of the Agricultural Division for a few Years. I've also participated in activating the dispute settlement process to defend Costa Rica's interest. I've also provided trade capacity building to WTO members. So I have had the opportunity to engage with the organization in many different perspectives while at the same time also, you know, being able to engage in other efforts at the regional and bilateral levels in the area of trade.

[A]

In my interview with Kimberly Elliott, she's one of the senior Fellows here at the center for Global Development, a specialist in trade. And she makes the argument that a rules based global organization is very important for small countries, that you can have bilateral or plurilateral agreements. Those may be useful in facilitating trade for some larger countries, but it's the smaller countries that lack negotiating power and therefore are likely to be left out of those things and that they benefit from having a strong wto. Does that match with your experience in Costa Rica?

[B]

Absolutely. I think, you know, the WTO is important for larger countries and for smaller countries, for all countries. But definitely in the case of the smaller nations, smaller developing nations, which are the majority of the members of the wto, the smaller and medium sized countries, it is very important to have a strong rules based system. And you know, in my experience, there is this one case where I think shows very clearly the importance of the system for a small country which is back in 1995 and 1996, Costa Rica was the first small country to activate the brand new system at the time and in that case against the United States for the imposition of restriction on exports of Costa Rican underwear to the US and we activated the system and we won the case and ultimately the restriction was not renewed by the United States. So this was a very important case for Costa Rica at the time and this showed, you know, that the system could deliver for the interest of a smaller nation. So I think this is sort of like a symbolic case of the value of the system for the smaller and medium sized countries.

[A]

We're going to take our first break. When we come back, Minister, I want to ask you about the Doha Round. This is the Global Prosperity Wonkast from the center for Global development. I'm Lawrence MacDonald and I'm very pleased that my guest today is Anabel Gonzalez, the Minister of Foreign Trade of Costa Rica. Back in a bit.

[C]

Hi, I'm Alex Gordon and I produce CGD's weekly Montcast. Did you know CGD sends out 10 different E newsletters to sign up for our weekly development update or topic specific newsletters, just visit cgdev.org and click on subscribe.

[A]

Welcome back to the Global Prosperity wonkast. I'm Lawrence McDonald. My guest today, Minister Gonzalez, the Minister of Foreign Trade for Costa Rica and one of several candidates to be the next Director general of the WTO. Minister Gonzalez it's become traditional that every time the G20 meets, they promise to complete the Doha Round. And the trade experts that I know roll their eyes and say this has become like, I don't know what, pledging to believe in God or something. You know, it might, might be real, might not. Nobody knows. But I saw in your statement that you still seem to think there's some life in the Doha Round. Do you think it's really possible to bring this thing to a conclusion?

[B]

Well, you know, in sort of launching this candidacy, I started a process of consultations with the WTO membership. And this is, of course, a very diverse membership. And one thing in common that I have found from all of my conversations is that all WTO members suggest that it is very important to deliver on Doha. And you know, in saying this, I am aware of course of the strong skepticism about Doha and the future of Doha. But I'd like to say a couple of things. First is that I think that we have a great opportunity in front of us in the next ministerial conference that is scheduled for December in Bali to deliver an agreement on trade facilitation. I think this is a very important topic in itself, but, but it is also very relevant because we can send a strong signal about members, you know, renewed sense of confidence on the ability to reach agreements. So I would like to think that we are able to move forward in Bali and from there on we can come, you know, to look at Doha and in different formats, consider different elements of Doha that are important, that will not go away. You know, the fact that it has been difficult to reach agreement doesn't mean that, that they are not important. And in a sense, some of these issues are long overdue. Now, having said this, I do not believe that other topics are not important. And I do see a role for an immediate medium term agenda for the WTO discussing other issues of relevance to the global economy.

[A]

For those who may not be experts in trade, when you say trade facilitation, I tend to think of aid for trade rich country, help for behind the border issues. Is that the kind of thing we're talking about? Strengthening ports, customs? It's almost, I would think, more of an aid agenda than a trade agenda. Is that fair?

[B]

I would like to say that I think it is both in a way, because I think There is tremendous benefits for all countries, but then again, in particular for developing countries to streamline the their customs procedures, you know, to facilitate border crossing of goods, because this is, you know, a means of connecting to the global economy. And I think one of the most important challenges that in particular developing countries face is how to integrate more into the trading system because we have seen tremendous growth of developing countries participation in world trade. And this is, of course, very much welcome, but it is still very concentrated in a few countries. And for, you know, to have more countries participate from global trade, I think there is an important role for trade facilitation now in implementing a number of the rules in trade facilitation. Strengthening, you know, capacity building in developing countries is of course, relevant because implementing a number of these measures requires resources. And in this regard, I do think that there is a role for capacity building. I must say, however, that in my own experience, I've seen that there is a lot of this capacity building going on right now. And actually a number of developing countries have trade facilitation projects as important priorities domestically. So I would like to think that we can align, you know, national priorities, regional cooperation that is already taking place from a number of the regional banks or the World bank for that matter, and the multilateral initiative and try to, you know, bring this into fruition in a trade facilitation agreement.

[A]

I want to switch gears just a little bit. My colleague, Arvind Subramanian, he's also a senior fellow here, argued in the interview I did jointly with him and Kimberly Elliot that the problem in the WTO is too much democracy, that the trade progress requires agreement between the large countries. And he said that the one country, one vote system meant that relatively small countries were able to hold up progress on something like Doha. Kim, on the other hand, said no. In fact, the last round on Doha was the failure of agreement between India and the United States that caused the problem and that it is still up to the big countries to agree and that there's not too much democracy. I imagine as the candidate to be the next head of the wto, you're not going to say that there's too much democracy, but still, I'm wondering what you think about that trade off between the role of the large countries and the role of the smaller countries within the organization.

[B]

Well, you know, first I'd like to say that I come from a country that has a very strong democratic tradition, so I see a lot of benefit in democracy. Now, I believe, of course, one important challenge that the organization faces is that it has moved from, you know, from a smaller number of countries to having a very large membership. Right now there are 158 members. It is of course, a diverse membership and it is an institution, like other institutions that has been somehow subject to these great forces of change that have been taking place in the world today, in the political arena, in the economic arena, in the technological field. And these are forces that go beyond way and global trade, beyond the WTO and global trade, if you wish. Now I believe that is why it is important to, you know, to have this positive signal coming out of Bali about members ability to reach agreement on areas that are of interest. And this is why I also think that with such a wide membership, it is important to look at other formats as possible ways of reaching agreement. Because it would be great, of course, if the 158 members, you know, can advance in tandem on all issues. But you know, I think to be realistic, that can happen in certain areas. But in other areas it could be other formats such as prelateral agreements or critical mass agreements. And of course, the important part of this is that all of this is open to all WTO members and that at the end of the day this can be brought within the realm of the organization. But you know, the political energy to re energizing the global trading system and can come from different, in different formats, I believe.

[A]

Thanks very much. We're going to take our final break. When we come back, I want to ask you about some over the horizon issues. This is the Global Prosperity Wonkast from the center for Global Development.

[C]

Hi, I'm Alex Gordon, based in Washington and interested in development policy. If you don't already receive invitations to our lively events, you'll want to sign.

[A]

[e-mail] welcome back to the Global Prosperity Wonkcast. I'm Lawrence MacDonald. My guest today is Minister Annabel Gonzalez, the Trade Minister of Costa Rica and one of several candidates to become the next Director General of the World Trade Organization. I guess there are two kinds of over the horizon issues I wanted to ask you about. If we think of trade negotiations traditionally about reducing quotas, about eliminating or reducing quantitative restrictions, about maybe having unified phytosanitary standards so that exporters aren't subject to capricious restrictions. Those are kind of, I think of the traditional bread and butter issues of the wto. Within Doha, there's a set of new issues that include trade and services. But then further beyond that, there's questions like in response to climate change, the possibility that some countries, indeed some Countries already have moved ahead with various kinds of prices on carbon with cap and trade or carbon taxes and the possibility of offsetting tariffs if other countries don't follow suit. So I've asked a long question. I'm hoping you'll give me a clearer answer than my question to this. How you think about these over the horizon issues.

[B]

I believe it is very important for the for WTO members to discuss an immediate and medium term agenda that would include, you know, different issues that are relevant to the global economy. And you know, you touch upon one, you know, the relationship between, between trade and climate change is of course very relevant. One can think about other issues as well. Trade and food security, for instance, or trade and investment or global value chains or energy or, you know, there are a number of issues that are quite relevant in the world today. You know, and I think that being the wto, the House of Trade, there is no subject that should be taboo for the House of Trade and members are discussing these issues outside of the WTO and in other formats. And I think it would be good to promote the dialogue within the WTO on a number of these issues. Now, some of this may evolve into a negotiating agenda, some may not, but it is relevant for the WTO and in particular for reinvigorating the wto, you know, as a forum to have a dialogue on all of these issues that are relevant to the global economy and world trade.

[A]

I have a rather narrow bore question that has to do with the WTO's adjudication function. And I should preface this by saying I am not a trade expert, but I had an opportunity to talk to people who were concerned that some of the judges who are nominated and serve in the WTO and the adjudication function that their, how shall we say, their personnel status was such that they were, were not well enough compensated that they could do the job well and that in particular that their reappointment was subject to the view of their nominating country and so that their independence was compromised in a number of ways. Is this something that you have seen and if you become the Director General, is this something that you would take on to strengthen the processes that protect the judges from undue influence from their sponsoring countries?

[B]

You know, I must say first that I believe that the WTO's adjudication mechanism is a strong system and a system that works effectively. It is perfectable as everything, but I think overall it is a good system. Now, members are reviewing right now the dispute settlement understanding of the WTO and there are a number of Proposals on the table in different areas. Now, this specific issue that you mentioned, I've seen a lot written about this issue and, you know, and I think it is something for the members to consider. Again, change in the WTO sometimes come in an incremental way, and it's more of an evolution, and there may be, you know, a time ripe for discussing this kind of issues.

[A]

You've been generous with your time. I know you have a very busy schedule. I wanted to give you the opportunity to have the last word, if there's any final thought you'd like to leave with my listeners about your candidacy to become the next head of the World Trade Organization.

[B]

Well, thank you very much. I think, you know, being here at the center for Global Development is, you know, it's important because I am a strong believer in the power of trade to promote growth and development. And I do think that for developing countries, having this strong institution, one that is reinvigorated, one that is an important actor in the global trading system, is very relevant. So, you know, development is very close to my heart. I come from a developing country, and I would like to have the opportunity to continue to work with members in strengthening the organization for the benefit of all members, as I said in the beginning, but certainly for the benefit of developing countries.

[A]

Well, I wish you success in your campaign to become the next head of wto. And I thank you again very much for taking time to join me on the show.

[B]

Thank you very much.

[A]

This has been the Global Prosperity wonkcast from the center for Global Development. My guest today, Annabel Gonzalez, Minister of Trade for Costa Rica and one of several candidates to become the leader of the wto. You can find the wonk cast online on itunes and on stitcher. Just search for wonkcast or CGD and subscribe to hear a new interview each week. Until next time, I'm Lawrence MacDonald. Thank you for listening.

[B]

Sam Sa. Sam.