Interview with WTO Candidate Teho Bark

Summary

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The CGD Podcast: Interview with WTO Candidate Tae Ho Bark

Date: March 12, 2013
Host: Lawrence MacDonald, Center for Global Development
Guest: Tae Ho Bark, Minister of Trade, Republic of Korea

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Overview

In this episode of The Global Prosperity Wonkcast, Lawrence MacDonald interviews Tae Ho Bark, the Korean Minister of Trade and one of nine candidates for the position of Director General (DG) of the World Trade Organization (WTO). The discussion covers Korea’s development success via trade, the role and future of the WTO (especially post-Doha), the complexities of bilateral versus multilateral agreements, climate-related tariffs, dispute resolution, and Bark’s vision for restoring trust and relevance at the WTO.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Korea’s Development Journey and Trade Experience

[00:35-02:25]

• Personal & National History:
  Bark recounts Korea's journey from war-induced poverty to becoming a high-income OECD member, emphasizing the role of trade:
  • “I was born during the Korean War... I still remember how poor we were as an eight or nine-year-old school boy in Seoul.” [01:28, Bark]
  • Early Korean exports included wigs made from real hair, transitioning to complex goods like ships, cars, and steel.
  • “Trade is a very important vehicle or instrument for economic development for Korea.” [02:12, Bark]

2. Motivation for WTO Candidacy

[02:25-03:42]

• National and Personal Perspective:
  • Korea “was one of the greatest beneficiaries out of liberal trading regime...maybe it’s time for Korea to make some contribution to the international organization which is governing international trade.” [02:38, Bark]
  • Bark highlights his academic and professional background in international trade, claiming deep qualifications for the DG role.

3. Bilateral vs. Multilateral Trade Agreements

[03:42-05:38]

• Growth of Bilateral FTAs:
  • Korea had no Free Trade Agreements (FTAs) until the early 2000s, but later pursued many, including with the US and EU.
  • Some concern exists that FTAs may erode the WTO’s multilateral system, but Bark stresses the need for complementarity:
    • “This regionalism and multilateral trading system must be complementary to each other...” [04:53, Bark]
    • He urges the WTO to better monitor the “quality of the regionalism.”

4. The Doha Round: Challenges and Prospects

[07:23-09:54]

• Widespread Frustration:
  • Doha described with three words: “frustration, fatigue, and irrelevance.” [07:23, Bark]
  • Complexity has grown with WTO’s expanded membership (now 157 countries), and with rising influence from emerging economies like China, India, and Brazil.
  • “We are facing biggest challenge ever since WTO is born.” [08:17, Bark]
  • Bark opposes giving up: “We have to somehow come up with some kind of packages or results.” [08:54, Bark]

5. Trade Facilitation and 'Early Harvest' Packages

[09:54-12:28]

• Trade Facilitation Explained:
  • Focused on modernizing customs and streamlining procedures to reduce transaction costs.
    • “We make the process of importing and exporting very, very short and efficient, which can save huge amounts of transaction cost.” [10:42, Bark]
• Aid for Trade:
  • Recognizes developing countries' needs for support in implementing trade facilitation. Financial help, possibly through the Aid for Trade initiative and cooperation with the World Bank, is key to achieving balanced outcomes.
    • “We can persuade developing country you accept this obligation, but we also help financially. Then we can have a better outcome on this trade facilitation.” [11:31, Bark]
• Agricultural Issues:
  • Highlights the importance of including agricultural and development issues in deliverables for the December Bali Ministerial Conference.

6. Agricultural Trade and Food Security Concerns

[12:28-13:21]

• Export Bans and Quotas:
  • Addresses topics like export bans and tariff rate quota (TRQ) issues as part of ongoing agricultural negotiations.

7. The Future of the WTO: Climate Tariffs & 21st Century Issues

[15:02-16:32]

• New Trade-Related Challenges:
  • Bark notes the WTO’s traditional focus on the Doha Round has limited attention to new issues like green growth, global value chains, investment, food security, and water management.
  • “We have to start to address this new so called 21st century issues so that you know we can be more relevant.” [16:09, Bark]

8. Dispute Settlement System: Strengths and Reforms Needed

[16:32-18:21]

• Current Effectiveness & Gaps:
  • While negotiations have stalled, dispute settlement is “working very effectively,” but Bark acknowledges issues:
    • Short tenure and lack of independence for adjudicators.
    • Challenges for developing countries in accessing legal expertise.
    • Absence of rules for some types of disputes can produce precedent-setting results which may not be widely applicable.
  • “We have several areas to improve to make dispute settlement function of WTO more effectively, especially for the future.” [18:09, Bark]

9. Priorities as WTO Director General

[18:21-19:18]

• Restoring Trust Through Dialogue:
  • Main priority: foster “more open dialogue, more candid dialogue among members between DG and ambassadors and within the Secretariat.”
    • “To rebuild trust... is the first thing I should do.” [18:53, Bark]

10. Korea as a Bridge Between Developed and Developing Economies

[19:18-21:37]

• Advantages and Perceived Challenges:
  • Korea’s unique position straddling developed and developing world contexts is emphasized as an asset for consensus-building.
    • “I think Korea is in the right position to mediate advanced and developing country positions because we have both experiences.” [21:46, Bark]
  • Acknowledges concerns over concentration of international leadership among Koreans, insisting merit should be the main criterion:
    • “First criteria must be based on qualification and merits.” [21:09, Bark]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Korea’s Transformation:
  “As you said, we first export few items including the wigs made out of real hair... But now we are exporting ships, cars and steels... trade is a very important vehicle or instrument for economic development for Korea.”
  — Tae Ho Bark [01:32–02:12]

• On Doha Fatigue:
  “Doha Round and WTO using three words, frustration and fatigue and irrelevance.”
  — Tae Ho Bark [07:32]

• On Aid for Trade:
  “We cannot, you know, in a binding way, ask developed countries to finance this. But aid for trade from many different countries and also in cooperation with the World bank... we can persuade developing country you accept this obligation, but we also help financially.”
  — Tae Ho Bark [11:19–11:38]

• On 21st Century Issues:
  “We have to start to address this new so called 21st century issues so that you know we can be more relevant.”
  — Tae Ho Bark [16:09]

• On Restoring Trust at the WTO:
  “To rebuild trust among, you know, in the so called Geneva environment is the first thing I should do. It may take some time, but this is the basics you must go back to if you have prolonged problems.”
  — Tae Ho Bark [18:53]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:35 — Personal and Korea’s trade development context
• 02:38 — Motivations for candidacy
• 04:26 — On bilateral FTAs and the WTO
• 07:23 — Doha Round fatigue and future prospects
• 10:35 — Explanation of trade facilitation
• 11:19 — ‘Aid for Trade’ and developing country support
• 15:02 — Climate and new trade-related issues
• 16:32 — Dispute settlement system and possible reforms
• 18:30 — Bark’s top priority if selected as DG: rebuilding trust
• 19:18 — Korea’s intermediary role; rotation and merit in leadership
• 21:46 — Bark’s final argument for Korea’s candidacy as a bridge

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Conclusion

Tae Ho Bark presents himself as an experienced, pragmatic candidate who emphasizes Korea’s unique rise and perspective as a bridge between developed and developing countries. He stresses the ongoing importance of the multilateral trading system, the need for the WTO to address new global challenges, and—above all—the importance of rebuilding trust through dialogue among the institution’s diverse members. Bark's vision for the WTO revolves around relevance, consensus, and practical results, addressing both legacy and emerging issues facing the global trading system.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Global Prosperity wonkcast. I'm Lawrence MacDonald and my guest today is Tae Hon Park. He is the Minister of Trade of Korea, the Republic of Korea and is one of nine candidates to become the next Director General of the World Trade Organization. And this is one in a series of interviews that we're doing here at the center for Global Development with candidates to lead the wto. Minister park, welcome to the show.

[B]

Thank you very much.

[A]

As I told you before we started, I have a very soft spot in my heart for Korea in my younger days. I was a reporter in Seoul during the transition to democracy and the 1988 Olympics. And I must say I came away very, very impressed with the Korean people and the incredible transition really from, from being a very poor war ravaged country to becoming a high income country that belongs to the OEC Development Committee, the OECD dac. It's really quite unique in the world and trade has been very important in that. I wonder if you can talk to me as the Minister of Trade about your experience and Korea's experience with trade as a vehicle for development.

[B]

You know, this is very interesting topic for me because I was born during the Korean War which is in early 1950s. So I still remember how poor we were as an eight year or nine year school boy in Seoul. We lived in Seoul at the time and now we make a huge economic development. But the vehicle for economic development was trade. As you said, we first export few items including the wigs made out of real hair. At the time, the ladies and sisters and mothers cut their hairs and make wigs and export to New York. This is the first item we export. But now we are exporting ships, you know, cars and steels, you know, all kinds of things. But what I'm saying is here is trade is a very important vehicle or instrument for economic development for Korea.

[A]

And why did you decide to put your name forward? It's a crowded field. What makes you think that you are the strongest candidate to be the next Director General of the wto?

[B]

From the country perspective, as I said before, Korea was one of the greatest beneficiaries out of liberal trading regime, especially in the 60s and 70s where we start to export something for economic development. So we received huge benefits. Maybe it's time for Korea to make some contribution to the international organization which is governing international trade. That's the kind of the country perspective why we want to put up the nominate, I mean the candidate for DG of WTO for the future position. And personally I studied international trade from my graduate field. And from then on until now, I'm always in either professor, researcher or practitioner in the international trade field. So I'm quite qualified in that field, especially trade field. So that's why I'm running for the candidate for wto.

[A]

You brought with you today a very nicely done brochure. And I'm looking at the back here. It says get things done and it mentions your role in completing negotiations with Colombia and Turkey and launching negotiations for bilateral with China and a trilateral with China and Japan. I'm not a trade expert, but I understand from my colleague Kimberly Elliot, who is working one of our senior fellows here, that there is some concern that these various bilaterals, or bilats as they call them, are eroding the role of the wto. How do you see the relationship between these bilateral treaties like the one that you negotiated with Colombia and Turkey, and multilateral trading system?

[B]

I think we have to accept the reality. Up until early 2000, Korea never have any single FTA before. But you know, I'm not saying this is a direct reason why we are going for bilateral regionalism, but from then on, we are looking for some options other than multilateral trading system to liberalize our economy. That's why we start to have some negotiation with other major trading nations, including United States and eu. But later, many our trading partners want to have FTA with Korea. That's why we are expanding our bilateral FTA with many countries. But still, Korea's highest priority is in the multilateral trading system. So this regionalism and multilateral trading system must be complementary to each other and to control bilateral FTAs or regional FTAs to be compatible with WTO regime. I think WTO must do some more work in terms of monitoring the quality of the wto, the quality of the regionalism in the future.

[A]

We're going to take our first break. When we come back, I want to ask you about the Doha Round and your views on the prospects for completion. This is the Global Prosperity Wonkcast from the center for Global development. I'm Lawrence MacDonald and my guest today is Republic of Korea Trade Minister Tae Ho Bark. I'm very pleased to have him with me. He is one of nine candidates seeking to be the next Director General of the wto. We'll be back in a bit. Welcome back to the Global Prosperity Wonk cast. I'm Lawrence McDonald. My guest today, Tae Ho Bark, Minister of Trade of the Republic of Korea. Minister Bark. It's become customary whenever there is a G20 meeting, or certainly a meeting of ministers of trade that they all say we must complete the Doha Round. If I remember correctly, at the last meeting of the G20 that was not included in the text and the trade experts I know were relieved. They thought it's getting pretty silly to promise to complete the round and it's time for us to, to just bury it and move on to something else. Do you think that that kind of pessimism about the Doha Development Round is warranted?

[B]

Well, you know, somebody described just you said, just like you said, described the Doha Round and WTO using three words, frustration and fatigue and irrelevance. So that describes how The Doha and WTO are situated recently. But I think, you know, the 2001, we made a strong commitment to do this kind of multilateral trade negotiation called the Doha Development Agenda Round, emphasizing more of the development issues in the negotiations because we hope to see many developing countries getting benefits out of this trade liberalization negotiations. However, however, now we have membership grown to be 157 countries. And you mentioned G20. The major countries used to be. In the past, major countries in trading activities are mostly advanced countries. Now we have China is number two largest trading nation in the world. India, Brazil, they're also working very seriously in the trade field. So it's very difficult for many countries to agree upon something, you know, so we are facing biggest challenge ever since WTO is born. So that doesn't mean that we have to give up something. We have to somehow come up with some kind of packages or results. That's why we are working very hard, trade ministers and negotiators working very hard in Geneva to deliver something in December in Bali, Indonesia, when we have 9th ministerial conference. By doing so, we can get some benefit out of this result. And also we can show to the outside world WTO is functioning. And also within the WTO and within Geneva culture, we can restore our own confidence in terms of doing something and producing something. So later we should play a more important role in the world trading environment. Especially when the world economy is facing huge difficulties. Trade can play a very effective role.

[A]

Do you see any early harvest things? I don't know if that's a technical term or not, but things that might be possible at the Trade Ministerial in Bali in December that could restore a sense of confidence in the WTO and build some trust among the members. What do you think is the most promising aspect?

[B]

You know, two years ago we did the same kind of efforts to produce something, but we failed. So this time we said failure is not an option. We Must succeed. That means, you know, we must work very hard in the months of, you know, this month and March and April are key months to come up with some kind of broad idea what kind of things we can deliver. So far we put several items in a package we call trade facilitation, which is very important subject.

[A]

Trade facilitation basically is harmonization of the behind the border rules. Or how would you define facilitation?

[B]

You know, when you export something or you import something, you have to go through so called customs process, you know, investigation and many things. And we make it very efficient, modernizing the system, using the computerized system and single window system, something like that. So we make the process of importing and exporting very, very short and efficient, which can save huge amount of transaction cost. So that's the trade facilitation issue.

[A]

And is there an aid for trade part of that? Is it when you're in a trade facilitation discussion. The developing countries are looking to the rich world to help pay for some of this upgrading and streamlining.

[B]

That's quite true because many developing countries want to modernize their customs clearance procedures. But it takes some money and we cannot, you know, in a binding way, ask developed countries to finance this. But aid for trade from many different countries and also in cooperation with the World bank, which is doing also aid for trade, you can focus on trade facilitation. Then I think we can persuade developing country you accept this obligation, but we also help financially. Then we can have a better outcome on this trade facilitation. This is one of the most important issue to be included. If possible, we can deliver in December in Bali. We have to also include some other issues, some agricultural related issues proposed by Brazil. And also we are considering some other issues. Same similar agricultural issues proposed by India. And also development per se, some issues. So we have to include several of them to make a nice package to deliver in December in Bali.

[A]

One of the issues you mentioned, agriculture, one of the issues we've paid some attention to here at the center for Global Development concerning food prices and the food Crisis before the 2008 crash, is that of export bans. Is that one of the issues that is likely to be discussed?

[B]

Well, including that, you know, many different issues like, you know, quota. Every country can have a quota on agricultural product imports. And if the quota is not filled for many years, then you have to do something else, you know, to receive to import more agricultural products. Not using that kind of quota. You can invite other importers to import agricultural products. We call the TLQ issues. So I think many, many different issues there.

[A]

We're going to take our second break. When we come back, I wanted to ask you about some more forward looking issues beyond Doha. This is the Global Prosperity Wonkast from the center for Global Development. We'll be back in a moment. Welcome back to the Global Prosperity wonkcast. I'm Lawrence McDonald and my guest today is Minister Tae Hong Bark, the Trade Minister of the Republic of Korea. We're talking about his candidacy to become the next Director General of the wto. Minister Bark, one of the things that I've been wondering about, in fact we had a very interesting discussion here today at the center that focused focused on the possibility of tariffs, what are sometimes called carbon tariffs, that is tariffs on embedded carbon in the context of global climate talks. And the discussion today was actually looking at carbon tariffs as possibly being a key to getting global cooperation on climate in a kind of a bottom up manner. Is this something that you expect is going to be a significant issue for the WTO in the years ahead and if so, what is your view?

[B]

Well, actually since 1995 when the WTO was born, we have a special committee on Trade and Environment to talk about many issues including the one you just mentioned. But it is not an easy issue to agree upon something so that we can apply this to the trade activities because there are so many different interest and positions. So certainly this will be a new kind of issue to address. WTO somehow preoccupied with Doha around negotiations for many, many years. We didn't really address the new issues including the kind of green growth or green energy issues. But also we have so called global value chain issues, investment issues and food security issues. Sometimes water management is also affecting international trade of agricultural products. So I'm not saying which one we should address but we have to start to address this new so called 21st century issues so that you know we can be more relevant. And if you find some issues we should produce some kind of principles or rules regarding trade activities, then we can actually address more seriously on that issue to tackle the new issues which are directly related to trade activities.

[A]

One of the WTO's very important roles of course is the adjudication of disputes. And I was meeting not long ago with somebody who was in touch with one of the adjudicators. I guess I don't know if they're called judges, it's not my area. But they were saying that for some of them the terms under which they work leave them subject to pressure from their host governments. That they are appointed for relatively short terms, that they don't have the status of an international civil servant, and that that made it quite difficult for them to render decisions that might go against the interests of their host nation. Do you see this as a problem in the wto?

[B]

Well, we are now discussing the improvement of dispute so called dispute settlement mechanism. But while the trade negotiation called Doha is not moving as rapidly as possible, trade dispute function of WTO has been working very effectively and a lot of member countries respect the function of trade dispute settlement mechanism. However, we have some issues to be improved, especially for developing countries. Sometimes they cannot find the right judges or lawyers to participate in these kind of cases and each step takes too much time, as you said. And also we don't have any specific rules, but cases proposed by member countries involved in certain issues which we don't have any rules. So in that case the result can distort the same cases in the future. So we have several areas to improve to make dispute settlement function of WTO more effectively, especially for the future.

[A]

If you were selected as the next leader of the wto, what's going to be your number one priority?

[B]

You talk about DDA or Bali Ministial Conference and everything. But what about want to emphasize if I'm elected as a Director General is to, you know, to have a more open dialogue, more candid dialogue among members between DG and ambassadors and within the Secretariat so that we can gain some kind of trust among ourselves. Otherwise we cannot move ahead having more consensus on different difficult issues. So I think to rebuild trust among, you know, in the so called Geneva environment is the first thing I should do. It may take some time, but this is the basics you must go back to if you have prolonged problems.

[A]

As a Korean, I think you have, if I may, both some advantages and a disadvantage in this regard. The advantage which I think Korea has really used and made important contributions to the world is straddling the boundary between a developed and a developing country. And I admired so much the way that Korea pushed to have development be an important part of the G20 when Korea held the presidency of the G20. And also as an American, I think sometimes that Korea is well placed to serve as a kind of a go between a bridge between my own country and China. Geographically, culturally, you have deep experience with both of these two major nations. So those are important advantages. There's also potentially a disadvantage in timing in that although it's ideally based on merit, there is a certain sense that the leadership of the international institutions ought to be distributed among countries. And we have quite a remarkable situation now where both the the Secretary General of the United nations being Korean and the head of the World bank being a Korean American. Have you had people say surely we don't want the WTO also to be in the hands of Korea?

[B]

I received a lot of comments like that. First of all, WTO is really different organization than un to some extent different from World bank, very technically oriented organization. So I understand the consideration of geographical allocation or the exchanges of developed and developing country candidate for certain times. But the first criteria must be based on qualification and merits. And if you have same competitive candidates in in the process, then maybe you can consider second or third criteria as a geographical rotation or rotation between developing countries. But I can give you many examples where same country citizens are head of international organization. But I don't want to say that at the moment, but that happens.

[A]

Is there any final thought you'd like to leave with our listeners about your candidacy to be the Director General of the wto? I want to give you the last word.

[B]

Yeah, you mentioned about the intermediary role between advanced and developing countries and also you can judge what kind of trade policy one country has been pursuing. I think Korea is in the right position to mediate advanced and developing country positions because we have both experiences. We are not quite yet advanced countries, but we understand the concern and interest and also we understand very well the positions and concerns of developing countries so we can facilitate some kind of consensus between the two. So I think this is what we can do much better than other candidates and Korea has a reputation of pursuing. In the past we didn't do it, but as time goes by we are pursuing very actively for liberal trade policies. So maybe Korean candidate is quite appropriate candidate for next DG of wto.

[A]

Well, thank you very much for joining me on the wonkcast and I wish you all the very best in your candidacy to be General of the wto. This has been the Global Prosperity wonkcast from the center for Global Development. My guest today, Tae Ho Park. He's the Minister of Trade of the Republic of Korea and one of several candidates to be the next Director General of the wto. You can find the Wonk cast online on itunes and on stitcher. Just search for wonkcast or CGD and I hope you will subscribe to hear new interview. Every week we have more interviews coming up with other candidates to lead the World Trade Organization. Until next time, I'm Lawrence MacDonald. Thank you for listening.