The CGD Podcast - "Is Better Good Enough?"

Guest: Dr. Andrew Steer, President & CEO, World Resources Institute
Host: Rajesh Merchandani, Center for Global Development
Release Date: April 21, 2015

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Center for Global Development’s Rajesh Merchandani hosts Dr. Andrew Steer to discuss whether the global fight against climate change is making enough progress. Covering international climate commitments, the pivotal role of emerging economies, and the intersection of economic growth and environmental stewardship, the conversation offers deep insights into the evolving landscape ahead of the critical Paris climate summit (COP21) in 2015.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Are We Making Progress on Climate Change?

• Progress Made, But Not Enough
  • Dr. Steer is cautiously optimistic: "The issue is not whether we make progress. The issue is whether we make enough progress quickly enough." [00:28]
  • This year (2015) is crucial as countries prepare for the global climate deal in Paris.

2. Global & Domestic Political Dynamics

• U.S. Political Landscape
  • The U.S. is seeing a vocal segment denying climate science, but this is not universal globally [01:13].
• Shift in International Negotiation Approach
  • Contrast with Copenhagen: unlike 2009's “top-down” method of setting mandatory global targets, Paris relies on “bottom-up,” voluntary national pledges—Intended Nationally Determined Contributions (INDCs).
  • “...it's intentionally not legally binding. It's nationally determined, not globally determined. It's a contribution, not a promise.” [02:56]

3. Ambition and Limitations of Current National Commitments

• Is the Approach Watered Down or Enabling?
  • Although less binding, this approach has unlocked “a lot more ambition” [03:45].
  • As of the recording, over half the world’s emissions are covered by submitted or announced INDCs.
• Are Current Pledges Sufficient?
  • The current path covers “between 50 and 60% of what is necessary” for a least-cost path to limiting warming to 2°C [04:59].
  • Pledges are “much more ambitious offers than we anticipated”, e.g., Mexico and the U.S. exceeded expectations [05:42].

4. The Role of Major Developing Economies: China and Mexico

• China's Path to Climate Leadership
  • China intends to peak emissions by 2030, though it may happen sooner. This will require vast investments in renewables—"more than the entire electricity generation capacity in the United States today" [06:58].
  • “Coal consumption in China stayed level and started to decrease a little bit. ... Many observers believe that coal consumption may already have peaked in China, which would be remarkable.” [07:45]
  • China leads globally in renewables investment.
• Motivations Behind Action
  • Air pollution and economic self-interest drive China’s climate actions as much as global responsibility. “There are several reasons why it is in China's interest… it's one of the most threatened countries in the world by climate change.” [09:00]

5. Mitigation Through Conservation: The Importance of Forests

• Development and Forest Protection
  • Discusses CGD's "Why Forests, Why Now?" project—highlighting the critical climate and development benefits of reducing deforestation.
  • “By reducing deforestation... you can mitigate 24 to 30% of annual carbon emissions. But also you protect local economies.” [10:22]
• Challenge of ‘Not Doing’ as an Achievement
  • Hard for leaders to be credited for not exploiting resources, especially amid powerful vested interests like palm oil [11:40].
  • Steer notes, “It's important to realize that actually the palm oil does earn some money. ... Not every local citizen will say, oh please, let's just stop doing this. It requires something more than that.” [12:12]
  • The solution: Target new agriculture on degraded lands, not pristine forests.
• Technology and Transparency
  • Technological advances, including WRI/Google forest monitoring, are helping hold palm oil companies accountable: “We now have a system... to see almost in real time, forests changing. ... We know who’s cheating.” [13:56]
  • Major firms like Unilever and Wilmar are pledging to source sustainable palm oil, aiming for a tipping point: “We could be up to 90% [certified sustainable] in the next five years.” [15:51]

6. The Single Most Important Policy Change: Carbon Pricing

• Economic Sense of Carbon Taxation
  • Steer advocates for understanding economics: “There is a view out there that putting a tax on carbon would be distortionary... We have known since 1923... that it is very bad economics not to put a tax on carbon.” [16:37]
  • He points out the irrationality in current subsidies: “The fact that we are now spending $500 billion a year to pay people to consume too much energy... whilst we only put 100 billion a year to support renewable energy. That is nuts.” [17:07]
  • Conclusion: "It's an issue of good economics." [17:57]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the New Paris Approach:
  “It’s intentional. That is not legally binding. It’s nationally determined, not globally determined. It’s a contribution, not a promise.”
  — Andrew Steer [02:56]

• On the Sufficiency of Global Commitments:
  “Is this good? Yes, because these are much more ambitious offers than we anticipated... But the point is it’s not enough.”
  — Andrew Steer [05:27]

• On China’s Energy Transition and Motives:
  “There are several reasons why it is in China's interest to peak its greenhouse gas emissions and to come down... if it acts, others will act too.”
  — Andrew Steer [09:00]

• On Forest Protection and Development:
  “It’s a jigsaw puzzle rather than a gun. It requires the private sector, palm oil traders and purchasers to say, look, we insist on a certain standard.”
  — Andrew Steer [13:15]

• On Carbon Pricing:
  “It is ridiculous that we keep taxing good things like work... and we don’t tax bad things like carbon emissions and congestion and pollution.”
  — Andrew Steer [17:45]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening and Framing of Progress Question – [00:05 – 00:55]
• INDCs versus Copenhagen’s Approach – [01:31 – 03:43]
• Assessment of Pledges so Far – [03:45 – 05:40]
• Major Developing Nations & China’s Leadership – [06:25 – 08:53]
• Economic Motivations for China's Action – [08:53 – 10:03]
• Tropical Forests & Development Linkages – [10:03 – 13:15]
• Technology's Role in Forest Protection – [13:56 – 15:51]
• The Case for Carbon Tax – [16:37 – 18:01]

Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is pragmatic and informed, striking a note of “realistic optimism.” Dr. Steer appreciates the growing ambition worldwide, especially in unexpected places, but underscores the urgent gap between today’s action and what science demands. He stresses the importance of economic rationality, transparency, and policy innovation for environmental progress—highlighting that the right incentives can align national interests with global survival.

For more, visit www.cgdev.org and explore CGD’s "Why Forests, Why Now?" research.