The CGD Podcast: On Journalism and Global Development—Nicholas Kristof

Date: May 14, 2013
Host: Lawrence MacDonald, Center for Global Development
Guest: Nicholas Kristof, New York Times columnist

Episode Overview

This episode features an in-depth conversation between host Lawrence MacDonald and Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Nicholas Kristof about the role and challenges of journalism in covering international development issues. They discuss the state of global news coverage, evolving media business models, the “Win a Trip” contest that Kristof runs, innovative storytelling methods, and the broader implications of a declining American focus on global affairs.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kristof’s “Win A Trip” Contest and Journalism’s Reach

• The “Win A Trip” contest offers American students the opportunity to travel with Kristof to report on development issues, aiming to bridge the gap between distant realities and US audiences.
• This year’s winner, Erin Lumen, stands out for her prior international experience as a Peace Corps volunteer (01:23), with ambitions to train overseas journalists (01:53).
• Destinations for this year’s trip might include countries in the Sahel region, such as Mali, Niger, or Burkina Faso (02:25).

2. Changing Landscape and Crisis in Journalism

• MacDonald observes the collapse of traditional journalism models and the vacuum think tanks are now filling:

  “There’s a space that the think tanks have moved into partly because of the vacuum created by the collapse of the old model.” (03:44)

• Kristof notes the irony that news organizations are “inadvertently nonprofit” and expresses concern over the collapse in international news coverage, especially of development stories in US media (04:24).

3. The News Consumption Paradox—More Access, Less Exposure

• While more news is accessible because of the internet, only the already-interested seek it out (07:25).
• Most mainstream audiences now receive “dessert” (entertainment or headlines) and miss out on the “spinach” (in-depth or serious stories)—

  “News organizations used to kind of feel that they filled a special role, that they had an obligation to provide spinach... And these days... it’s all dessert.” — Kristof (08:44)

4. The Conundrum of Passive Consumption (“If It’s News, It Will Find Me”)

• MacDonald shares a “horror story” of a young person’s passive news approach:

  “‘I figure if it’s news, it will find me.’” (09:52)

• Kristof laments media reluctance to push important stories, illustrated by ABC News’ decision to drop in-depth development coverage even when subsidized by the Gates Foundation—

  “Even though they were being bribed to cover these kinds of issues, it still wasn’t worth it...” (11:28)

5. Commercial Realities and Editorial Choices

• Quality international coverage is often abandoned because it doesn’t rate highly:

  “If I were executive producer... my choice is to send people out to cover some of these global stories, and then my ratings will dip. Or I can put a Democrat and a Republican in a studio together and have them yell at each other, and my ratings will go up.” — Kristof (13:04)

• Public broadcasters like PBS NewsHour are recognized as bright spots but still over-rely on talking heads (13:19).

6. New Outlets and Models: Promise and Pitfalls

• Al Jazeera English is praised for its global coverage, but Kristof notes its audience is mostly already engaged, not the general public (14:24).
• News organizations across the political spectrum (MSNBC, Fox News) largely neglect international coverage (15:22).
• Kristof expresses cautious optimism that new business models will eventually support quality journalism:

  “My hunch is that news organizations are going to be groping toward a new business model that ultimately is going to pay for content.” (16:45)

• Low-cost digital ventures (e.g., Vice) have had some success, but mostly with already interested “niche” audiences (17:47, 18:41).

7. Experimentation in Storytelling and Public Engagement

• Kristof and MacDonald discuss the necessity for mainstream journalism to be more creative and less risk-averse (19:14).
• Kristof describes his experiments with blogging, audience contests, and multimedia (film, Facebook game) around his book Half the Sky (22:21).
• Celebrity involvement in Half the Sky’s PBS documentary risked “cheapening” the reporting—

  “People did tune in to see the actresses and then got hooked in the content.” (22:34)

• Kristof notes that heavier, grim content may discourage readership and would consider a more uplifting tone to draw in more readers if doing the project again (23:50).

8. Challenges of Reporting on Difficult Topics

• Coverage focused on problems (conflict, disease) risks painting all of Africa as one-dimensional, discouraging investment and tourism (24:57).
• MacDonald wryly notes sensationalism, “People would rather read about severed limbs... than decentralized solar power” (25:30).
• Kristof asserts serious humanitarian crises are undercovered and that a sense of “hopelessness” is one risk of current reporting patterns (25:39).

9. The Future: Worsening Before Improvement?

• Kristof predicts the short-term future of international coverage will decline further due to financial pressures and US inwardness:

  “The problems are going to get worse rather than better... The US is reverting to its more historical, insular, inward-looking role.” (27:00)

• Looking further ahead, he’s somewhat optimistic that necessity will eventually drive demand for global awareness among American youth (27:52).

10. International Coverage and US Global Role

• MacDonald connects the decline in international coverage to the wider waning of US leadership, noting concerns that the world is left in a “G0” scenario (leaderless global order) (28:03).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On reporting from tough environments:

  “The joke within the New York Times is that first prize is indeed a trip with me. Second prize is two trips with me.” — Kristof (02:56)

• On news ‘spinach’ versus ‘dessert’:

  “News organizations used to... provide spinach... And these days... it’s all dessert.” — Kristof (08:44)
  “They couldn’t make people eat spinach, huh?” — MacDonald (12:13)

• On the challenges of covering Africa and development:

  “We cover planes that crash, not planes that take off.” — Kristof (25:39)
  “I think that there’s also this risk that we end up discouraging investment in Africa, discouraging tourism, and leaving people with a sense of sort of hopelessness that is counterproductive.” — Kristof (26:05)

• On the future of journalism:

  “I think maybe if we have the conversation a little further away—another 10 years, another 15 years—then I'm a little more hopeful... But in the coming few years, I fear that the problems are going to get worse before they get better.” — Kristof (27:52)

Key Timestamps

• 00:45–02:22: Discussion of the “Win A Trip” contest and its winner, Erin Lumen.
• 03:44–06:25: Collapse of traditional journalism and rise of think tanks and NGOs in news coverage.
• 07:25–09:02: Online news accessibility vs. shrinking mainstream audience exposure.
• 09:52–12:13: The “If it’s news, it’ll find me” attitude and the demise of incentive-driven global news coverage.
• 13:19–14:24: Strengths and limitations of PBS NewsHour and Al Jazeera English.
• 16:45–19:54: New business models—promise, limitations, and Vice as an experimental approach.
• 20:11–22:21: Kristof’s successful and less successful experiments in audience engagement and multimedia storytelling.
• 24:27–26:29: Dilemmas in coverage tone, the risk of negative perceptions of Africa.
• 27:00–28:03: Kristof’s outlook on the near and distant future of international journalism and US attitudes.

Conclusion & Final Thoughts

The conversation provides a candid, sometimes humorous, sometimes sobering look at the challenges facing journalism—especially as it relates to informing Americans about the wider world. Kristof’s experience, combined with MacDonald’s reflective questioning, underscores the urgency for new models, more creative storytelling, and the need to broaden audiences beyond the already-engaged. Yet, in Kristof’s view, the near-term prognosis is bleak, even as hope remains that, with time and necessity, Americans will rediscover the value of global engagement.

This summary preserves the tone and content of the original discussion while providing structure and context for non-listeners.