Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Title: Protecting Forests with Global Forest Watch 2.0 – David Wheeler and Nigel Sizer
Podcast: The CGD Podcast
Host: Lawrence MacDonald, Center for Global Development
Guests:

• David Wheeler, Senior Fellow Emeritus, Center for Global Development
• Nigel Sizer, Director, Global Forests Project, World Resources Institute
  Date: March 18, 2013

In this episode, Lawrence MacDonald discusses the importance of forests in the context of climate change and the role of near real-time monitoring through Global Forest Watch 2.0. The conversation covers forest governance, transparency, and innovation in forest monitoring technology. The guests also discuss pay-for-performance schemes for forest conservation and the growing impact of both government and corporate commitments.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Importance of Forests in Climate Change (01:08)

• Forests and Emissions:
  Nigel Sizer stresses the vital role forests play in climate change, estimating that forest loss and degradation contribute 10–15% of global greenhouse emissions.
• Co-benefits of Forest Protection:
  He highlights that forest conservation offers social and ecological benefits including food security, adaptation for local communities, biodiversity, and watershed management.

Notable Quote:
"Forest loss and degradation of forest accounts for a significant percentage of global greenhouse emissions, somewhere in the range of 10 to 15%, depending on which study you read."
— Nigel Sizer [01:08]

2. Complexity in Addressing Forest Loss (02:05)

• Governance Challenges:
  Contrary to common belief, stopping deforestation is not simple due to entrenched governance issues: resource access, property rights, corruption, institutional dysfunction, and coordination across agencies.

Notable Quote:
"What appears simple on the surface actually is not simple in practice."
— Nigel Sizer [02:30]

3. Introducing Global Forest Watch 2.0 (03:15)

• Technological Leap:
  GFW 2.0 harnesses satellite data, advanced computing, and the internet to create near real-time forest change maps—updated every 16 days—providing unprecedented transparency for decision-makers and activists.
• Contrast with Previous Systems:
  Prior to GFW 2.0, data were often 3–5 years out of date.

Notable Quote:
"With the new technology, we can go from years out of date to updated on almost a daily basis."
— Nigel Sizer [04:37]

4. The Development of FORMA: Forest Monitoring for Action (05:21)

• Origins and Motivation:
  David Wheeler explains that the lack of timely data prompted the creation of FORMA, motivated by the World Bank's experience with improving environmental performance through transparency and public disclosure.
• Data Prospecting:
  The team sought out available satellite data and negotiated for access to build a system relevant for forest monitoring.

Notable Quote:
"The relevant information is probably out there somewhere in either public or private hands. And the key to moving forward is to locate the information and then try to negotiate an arrangement with the proprietors in the public interest."
— David Wheeler [06:43]

5. How Satellite Monitoring Works (08:34)

• Satellites and Color Change:
  Wheeler describes the basic method: satellites capture color changes in the forest canopy, allowing identification of forest loss.

Notable Quote:
"In this particular case, it is changes in the color spectrum as those relate to forest change that provide the key for mobilizing the data."
— David Wheeler [08:34]

6. Findings: Trends in Deforestation (09:07)

• Economic Drivers:
  Forest clearing is strongly linked to economic cycles. During the 2009–2010 global recession, clearing declined, but rebounded as demand recovered.

Notable Quote:
"Unfortunately, since then...the global economy is recovering and forest clearing has come right back as a response to increased demand for forest products."
— David Wheeler [09:47]

7. Transparency and Governance: The Game-Changing Potential of GFW 2.0 (10:58)

• Early Detection and Strategic Response:
  GFW 2.0 allows stakeholders to detect and respond to forest loss in near real-time, enabling quicker and more effective interventions.
• Comparative Analysis:
  Real-time data reveal shifting patterns—while Brazil's losses decrease, increases are noted in bordering countries, suggesting complex economic linkages.
• Transparency as a Foundation:
  Open, standardized information helps hold governments and investors accountable and better coordinate conservation efforts.

Notable Quote:
"It fundamentally addresses a key component of governance, which is transparency, access to information, enabling people to communicate with each other around an agreed set of consistent information about what's going on."
— Nigel Sizer [10:58]

8. The Case of Brazil (12:33)

• Leadership and Data Use:
  Brazil's advanced monitoring and public data availability have helped drive policy changes and set a leadership example, assisted by NGO pressure and committed officials.
• Transferability:
  The hope is that providing similar quality data to other countries will help catalyze reforms.

Notable Quote:
"Despite some recent concerns and issues around legislation in Brazil...the long term trend is, I think, a serious level of leadership and commitment on this issue."
— Nigel Sizer [13:24]

9. International Payments for Forest Conservation: REDD+ and Pay-for-Performance (15:54, 17:20)

• Carbon Offsetting and REDD+:
  With no global carbon price, bilateral and philanthropic funding (notably Norway) still supports forest conservation via REDD+ and direct payments.
• Performance Benchmarks:
  Wheeler suggests a transparent, benchmark-based pay-for-performance system, rewarding countries that achieve low forest clearing rates.
• Open Offer Model:
  Instead of protracted negotiations, an open, transparent payment system based on public data would incentivize governments to meet targets.

Notable Quotes:
"Financial incentives are always unexpectedly powerful because they put the financial decision on the desks of people who make decisions every day."
— David Wheeler [17:20]
"The philosophy here is utter transparency. That is, the objectives are clear, they're publicly announced, the measurements are public and the financing is public."
— David Wheeler [20:29]

10. Role of the Private Sector (20:55)

• Corporate Commitments:
  Major brands are pledging to eliminate deforestation from their supply chains for commodities like palm oil.
• Monitoring Compliance:
  GFW 2.0 can help the public monitor whether companies keep their promises.

Notable Quote:
"With Global Forest Watch, we can help them measure that, and we can help everybody listening to this and everybody out there see how well they're doing. So hold their feet to the fire."
— Nigel Sizer [21:16]

• Globalization and Political Pressure:
  International companies that set positive standards can create pressure for others, including Chinese firms, to follow suit.

Notable Quote:
"When hundreds of multinational corporations...begin performing appropriately on the environment, they begin backing political measures which will level the playing field by requiring others to also behave appropriately."
— David Wheeler [22:23]

Memorable Quotes & Moments by Timestamp

• "Forests...accounts for a significant percentage of global greenhouse emissions, somewhere in the range of 10 to 15%."
  — Nigel Sizer [01:08]

• "What appears simple on the surface actually is not simple in practice."
  — Nigel Sizer [02:30]

• "With the new technology, we can go from years out of date to updated on almost a daily basis."
  — Nigel Sizer [04:37]

• "The relevant information is probably out there...The key...is to locate the information and then try to negotiate...in the public interest."
  — David Wheeler [06:43]

• "In this particular case, it is changes in the color spectrum...that provide the key for mobilizing the data."
  — David Wheeler [08:34]

• "Financial incentives are always unexpectedly powerful because they put the financial decision on the desks of people who make decisions every day."
  — David Wheeler [17:20]

• "With Global Forest Watch, we can help them measure that...So hold their feet to the fire."
  — Nigel Sizer [21:16]

• "When hundreds of multinational corporations...begin performing appropriately, they begin backing political measures...requiring others to also behave appropriately."
  — David Wheeler [22:23]

Important Segments by Timestamp

• 00:10–03:15: Introduction, context setting and why forests matter
• 03:23–04:59: GFW 2.0 explained; leap from outdated to real-time data
• 05:21–07:17: Origins of FORMA and data gathering philosophy
• 08:34–09:47: How satellite-based monitoring works
• 09:47–10:58: Implications of economic trends on forest loss
• 10:58–13:24: Game-changing potential of real-time alerts, case studies
• 13:24–14:51: Brazil as a leader: monitoring, transparency, and governance
• 15:54–20:01: REDD+, pay-for-performance, and open offer approaches
• 20:55–23:09: Corporate sector's pledges, challenges of global commodity demand
• 23:09–23:32: Final reflections and episode close

Conclusion

This episode brings together expert perspectives on the technological, economic, and governance dimensions of global forest conservation. Through advances like Global Forest Watch 2.0, near real-time transparency on forest status is possible, with the potential to transform both public policy and corporate behavior. While the challenge is daunting and complex, the integration of data, incentives, and openness offers hope for smarter, faster, and more accountable action to protect the world’s forests.