Podcast Summary:

The CGD Podcast – Six Questions for African Policymakers: Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala
Host: Rajesh Merchandani (Center for Global Development)
Guest: Dr. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala
Date: April 11, 2016

Overview

In this episode, Rajesh Merchandani interviews Dr. Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala—renowned former Finance and Foreign Minister of Nigeria, board member and visiting fellow at CGD—about her essay "Six Questions African Policymakers Must Answer Now." The conversation explores critical challenges for African development, including financing the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), economic diversification, social contracts, the role of aid, and prospects for meeting global development targets.

Key Discussion Points

How Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala Began in Development

• Personal Background: Grew up in a Nigerian village with her grandmother due to her parents’ overseas studies, experiencing poverty and rural hardships first-hand.
• Influence of Family: Her father, an economist focused on development, instilled the necessity to channel privilege toward broader social good.
  • Quote (02:20): "That privilege, because that's what it is, must be used for something larger than you." — Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala

Financing African Development & The SDGs

(03:51–08:02)

• Critical Question: How will African countries finance their development and achieve the SDGs?
• Challenges: Massive resource needs—over $2 trillion globally; domestic resource mobilization is key.
  • Quote (04:07): "We must do more to get our own domestic resource mobilization going." — Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala
• Realism about International Aid: African policymakers shouldn't expect donor countries alone to meet funding gaps, especially in view of declining aid trends.
  • Quote (07:10): "I'm not saying that richer countries should not on some of the issues...but I'm just facing reality." — Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala
• Potential Returns: $1 donor investment in domestic revenue mobilization can yield $10 in increased domestic revenues (OECD estimate).
  • Quote (06:48): "That kind of return is fantastic." — Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala

Economic Diversification & Job Creation

(08:02–13:30)

• Diversification Rhetoric vs. Action: Many African policymakers discuss diversification, but action lags.
  • Quote (09:00): "Talk is talk and a little bit lazy. If you truly want to diversify, you need a plan." — Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala
• Need for Consistency: Lasting economic reforms require a social contract—continuity of policies across changing governments.
  • Comparison to Singapore and Dubai: Success came from long-term, methodical approaches.
• Challenges in Nigeria: Lack of a binding national consensus and commitment to long-term diversification beyond agriculture.
  • Emerging Consensus: Agriculture recognized as central, but needs to be modernized to attract youth ("agriculture as a business").
• Social Compact: Persistent, non-partisan pathways needed over 30 years or more; citizens must demand policy continuity.
  • Quote (11:00): "...the population agrees that no matter who takes over government, they are going to continue developing certain things in certain ways. That's not happening in many of our countries." — Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala

Special Case: Fragile and Conflict-Affected States

(13:30–15:15)

• Aid Remains Critical: For the most fragile states (where aid is 40%+ of budgets), development finance is still mainly external.
• Progress and Aid Allocation: As stronger African economies mobilize more domestic revenue, more aid can be targeted to fragile states.
• Not a Permanent Condition: Fragility shouldn't be viewed as permanent; gradual capacity-building is essential.

Prospects for Meeting the SDGs

(15:15–18:50)

• Universality of the SDGs: Unlike the MDGs, SDGs now apply to all countries and feature a broader, more inclusive development agenda.
  • Quote (16:09): "One good thing about these SDGs is they are now universal. There was a feeling among developing countries, not just Africa, that the MDGs seem to be designed for developing countries. No, now we're into universal things."
• Measuring Progress: Yes, there are many indicators (230+), but African countries have already made strides, and these goals are increasingly "owned" by the continent.
• Can the SDGs be met?
  • Okonjo-Iweala is optimistic: With sustained effort, the world—including Africa—can achieve them.
  • Importance of focusing on job creation, gender equality, financial inclusion, child immunization, and preparedness for pandemics.
  • Youth engagement and accountability are key for progress.
  • Quote (17:38): "Why can't we meet goals on gender? Why is it right that the pay gap between men and women is so large in many countries...?"

Notable Quotes

"That privilege, because that's what it is, must be used for something larger than you."
— Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala (02:20)

"We must do more to get our own domestic resource mobilization going."
— Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala (04:07)

"Talk is talk and a little bit lazy. If you truly want to diversify, you need a plan."
— Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala (09:00)

"...the population agrees that no matter who takes over government, they are going to continue developing certain things in certain ways. That's not happening in many of our countries."
— Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala (11:00)

"One good thing about these SDGs is they are now universal."
— Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala (16:09)

"Why can't we meet goals on gender? Why is it right that the pay gap between men and women is so large in many countries..."
— Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala (17:38)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• [00:00–03:23] – Dr. Okonjo-Iweala’s background and inspiration for working in development
• [03:51–08:02] – How will African countries finance development and the SDGs?
• [08:02–13:30] – Diversification, job creation, and the challenge of policy continuity
• [13:30–15:15] – Fragile and conflict-affected states: the special case for aid
• [15:15–18:50] – Can Africa and the world meet the SDGs? Universal goals, optimism, and the role of youth

Tone and Style

• Candid and insightful: Dr. Okonjo-Iweala speaks from lived experience and high-level policy pragmatism, mixing personal anecdotes with hard economic realities.
• Pragmatic optimism: She acknowledges global and local constraints but insists on the capacity for progress.
• Challenging the status quo: Advocates for substantive policy conversations and long-term commitments over rhetoric.

For Further Exploration

• Read Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala's essay: "Six Questions African Policymakers Must Answer Now" at cgdev.org
• Explore CGD’s ongoing research and podcasts on global development