The CGD Podcast: "We Need ‘Far Fewer’ SDGs Says Leading Development Thinker John Norris"

Host: Rajesh Merchandani (Center for Global Development)
Guest: John Norris (President’s Global Development Council, Center for American Progress)
Date: May 18, 2015

Episode Overview

This episode features John Norris, a member of the President’s Global Development Council and a senior figure at the Center for American Progress, discussing the newly released Council report. The conversation focuses on the evolving role of the private sector in development, challenges around financing and policy, the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs), and the practicality of major development targets shaping global priorities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Critical Role of the Private Sector in Development

• Engaging the Private Sector: Why Now?
  Traditional Official Development Assistance (ODA) alone won’t end extreme poverty. According to Norris, leveraging the greater financial and operational capacities of the private sector is increasingly necessary.
  • Quote:
    “The evidence at this point is pretty overwhelming that ODA alone is not going to lift everyone out of extreme poverty and get us where we want to be in development.” – John Norris (00:38)
  • Traditional aid remains important but is now seen as more catalytic than sufficient in itself.

2. The Addis Ababa Conference and Financing for Development

• A major upcoming global conference (the “Addis Conference”) is expected to reshape how development financing is approached, moving beyond government pledges to true multisector partnerships.
• Broader Tables, Shared Responsibilities:
  Norris highlights the growing involvement of private sector, philanthropy, NGOs, civil society, and developing country governments themselves.
• Domestic resource mobilization by developing countries, especially in Africa, is identified as a key focus, paired with efforts to curb illicit financial flows and tax avoidance.
  • Quote:
    “It means more actors agreeing to do more things and having some shared sense of responsibility.” – John Norris (02:40)

3. Data Revolution and US Commitments

• Norris predicts US Government commitments at Addis will likely focus on the “data revolution” for development, as well as avenues like domestic resource mobilization and addressing illicit financial flows.
  • Quote:
    “The body language from the US Government would suggest that they're very interested in the data part of development and the data revolution that ... has been called for as part of the SDGs.” – John Norris (04:18)

4. Call for a US Development Finance Bank

• The report recommends the creation of an official US Development Finance Bank, aligning with calls from both CGD and Brookings.
• The current patchwork approach (e.g., with OPIC, TDA, Treasury) is fragmented and inefficient.
• The proposal enjoys bipartisan support and could be accomplished with minimal new government spending.
  • Quote:
    “We’re one of the few developed nations that ... doesn’t have a serious finance institution of this sort.” – John Norris (05:38)

5. The Political Reality of Change

• Despite the practical and bipartisan merits of a US Development Finance Bank, Norris underscores that progress depends on persistent advocacy and education—especially amid shifting partisan landscapes.
  • Quote:
    “In this town, everything’s impossible until it’s not ... and then sometimes they finally get done.” – John Norris (07:34)

6. Climate Resilience Now Central to Development

• Climate considerations, once peripheral, are now embedded in mainstream development thinking.
• US Government has pledged to review all aid programs for their climate impact, although Norris expresses some concern about follow-through.
• Food Waste Example:
  Norris cites food waste reduction as a powerful area overlapping climate, economic, and development interests.
  • Quote:
    “We waste between 30 to 40% of all food between when it’s harvested and when it gets to a plate. ... Cleaning up this system ... is good for business ... good for consumers ... and means far fewer carbon emissions.” – John Norris (10:36)

7. Ambition vs. Realism: The SDGs Debate

• The SDGs (17 goals, 169 targets) are ambitious but risk becoming unwieldy and impractical.
• Norris applauds the consultative, inclusive SDG process, but believes the agenda "lacks discipline.”
  • Quote:
    “You could still have the same scope of ambition ... with far fewer goals and far fewer targets. Because I don’t think it’ll serve anyone well to have targets ... that are simply impossible or worded so poorly that nobody will feel actually committed to do anything about them.” – John Norris (13:29)
• Some targets are duplicative or unrealistic (e.g., “zero food waste,” “sustainable tourism” appears twice).
• Risks include loss of credibility and early perceptions of failure unless the agenda is streamlined.
  • Quote:
    “Finding that sweet spot of things that are ambitious but not ludicrous is really important ... by identifying practical, pragmatic, yet ambitious targets, we can galvanize additional resources and support.” – John Norris (14:44)

8. Institutionalizing Reform: The Value of Continuity

• The President’s Global Development Council’s regular reporting is commended for establishing a continuous review process—contrasting with the crisis-driven rhythms often seen in development policy.
  • Quote:
    “This regular willingness to ... look at some of these hard structural and architectural issues is really important.” – John Norris (16:45)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Private Sector Engagement:
  “The enormous resources the private sector brings to bear has been grossly underutilized.” – Norris (00:52)
• On Shared Responsibility:
  “If you’re willing to take steps, we can work together in partnership and we can bring a lot more people to the table.” – Norris (03:16)
• On Food Waste:
  “Every business that is in agriculture has a vested interest in reducing waste from 30 to 40%.” – Norris (10:51)
• On SDG Streamlining:
  “They’re messy and gauzy in some places and unrealistic in others. But they’re also terrified of reopening them for fear that everything will come unraveled.” – Norris (15:37)
• On Continuous Review:
  “I think having a relatively senior group of people that are drawn from different fields ... can be validators for key ideas around reform and how to improve the system is a real contribution.” – Norris (17:13)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Private Sector in Development – 00:29
• Upcoming Addis Conference and Financing – 01:18
• US Development Finance Bank Proposal – 05:05
• Political Feasibility – 06:56
• Climate & Sustainable Growth – 08:37
• SDGs: Achievability & Critique – 11:48
• Need for Fewer, Smarter SDGs – 13:55
• Institutionalizing Reform – 16:34

Summary for New Listeners

This episode offers valuable context for anyone interested in development policy, multilateral finance, and the debate over the future of the SDGs. John Norris’ insider perspective underscores both optimism about innovation and change—especially through engaging the private sector and climate mainstreaming—and concern about the lack of discipline in global goal-setting. The discussion is candid, pragmatic, and sharply focused on what it will take to truly improve development outcomes in the years ahead.