The CGD Podcast: What Do the Global Goals Mean for Rich Countries? – David Hallam (September 28, 2015)

Overview

In this episode of the Center for Global Development (CGD) podcast, host Rajesh Merchandani speaks with David Hallam, the UK envoy for the Post-2015 Development Goals and the UK Government’s lead on negotiating and implementing the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). Their conversation explores the meaning, implementation, and domestic relevance of the SDGs, especially for high-income nations like the UK, and considers how these goals differ from the earlier Millennium Development Goals (MDGs). David Hallam provides insider insights into the negotiation process, the UK's national and international commitments, and the cultural and practical challenges of fulfilling the SDGs.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The New Global Agenda and What Sets SDGs Apart [00:39–02:42]

• Celebrating Consensus
  • Hallam highlights the remarkable achievement of agreeing on 17 SDGs, noting the year as pivotal for development, with interconnected global events including climate, trade, and humanitarian summits.
  • Quote: “Let's just celebrate the fact that we've actually agreed the goals, and this is a really important year for international development. We're resetting the agenda with the Sustainable Development Goals, the Global Goals, as many people are now calling them.” (David Hallam, 00:43)
• SDGs Broaden and Deepen the Agenda
  • The SDGs address gaps in the MDGs: governance, peaceful societies, economic development, environmental integration, and a focus on 'leave no one behind.'
  • Hallam emphasizes the necessity of disaggregated data to measure true progress.
  • Quote: “The MDGs were very strong on social issues, health and education. They weren't so good on economic issues. Environment was rather siloed...and there was nothing...on peaceful and stable society.” (David Hallam, 01:44)

2. Changing Perceptions: Development as Mutual Benefit [02:42–04:21]

• Public Perception in Rich Countries
  • Merchandani questions how to shift the view of development from being a sacrifice to mutual benefit.
  • Hallam maintains optimism, citing public and political support in the UK for international development.
  • Quote: “There's a strong recognition that working overseas to help other countries is not only the morally right thing to do, but also in our national interest.” (David Hallam, 03:23)
  • Humanitarian aid for crises like Syria is presented as both altruistic and pragmatic.

3. Humanitarian Aid, Resilience, and the Link to SDGs [04:21–06:49]

• Resilience as a Core SDG Theme
  • SDGs, particularly Goal 1 (poverty) and Goal 16 (peaceful societies), emphasize resilience—linking humanitarian aid and long-term development.
  • Quote: “Building communities and societies' resilience to climate change, to disasters and so on, is written into the targets explicitly.” (David Hallam, 05:02)
• Goal 16 and the Voices of the Vulnerable
  • Hallam underscores the centrality of stable societies, governance, and voice, referencing research showing the strong desire for participation among the poor.
  • Quote: “The thing that was most consistent and most prominent...was that people wanted a voice in the decisions that affect their lives.” (David Hallam, 06:33)

4. Universality of the Goals, the Role of Democracy, and the Question of China [06:49–08:13]

• Universality and Adaptability
  • Merchandani questions if democracy is essential for development, citing China's progress.
  • Hallam notes the SDGs do not seek to export one political system but stress accountability and inclusive institutions.
  • Quote: “The point about having accountable government is written very strongly in this...improving transparency, improving the ability of people to hold their governments to account is a strong element of the goals.” (David Hallam, 08:01)

5. What Changes for the UK? Domestic and International Approaches [08:13–12:12]

• From Aid to “Billions to Trillions”
  • Hallam describes three fronts: continuing aid, advancing non-aid global initiatives (tax, trade, transparency), and domestic policy changes.
  • The Addis Ababa conference shifted the paradigm to include domestic resource mobilization and investment.
  • Quote: “The slogan around that is moving from billions in aid to trillions in investment.” (David Hallam, 10:44)
• UK's Leadership on Aid
  • The UK is the only G20 country meeting the 0.7% aid commitment.
• Tax, Transparency, and Corporate Responsibility
  • The UK is active in international tax reform (BEPS project) to curb corporate tax avoidance.

6. Implementing SDGs Domestically: Real Impact on UK Policy? [12:12–14:09]

• Mainstreaming SDGs in Domestic Policy
  • Cross-ministry engagement has informed UK SDG positions (e.g., Government Equalities Office on gender issues, work against FGM).
  • Collaboration with ministries ensures domestic priorities are reflected internationally and vice versa.
• Example: Gender Equality and FGM
  • Domestic efforts on issues like early/forced marriage influence and gain momentum from SDG commitments.

7. Measuring Progress and the Tension Between Aspiration and Achievability [14:09–18:44]

• From Negotiation to Policy Integration
  • Departments are required to integrate SDGs into their planning and spending decisions.
• Will It Matter If SDGs Aren’t Fully Achieved?
  • Hallam acknowledges the “aspirational vs. achievable” tension but sees value in stretching goals.
  • Quote: “Otherwise, what's the point having a target? If we're going to hit them anyway, then why have it?” (David Hallam, 16:27)
  • The SDGs serve to raise ambition and drive collective action, not just to be ticked off as “done.”

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On universality:
  “The MDGs in principle were universal. But...they're really about an agenda...around international development, of which aid was a big part. And that was a big part of the narrative back in 2000...The world has moved on.”
  — David Hallam, [08:31]

• On public support:
  “We have cross party consensus on the 0.7% commitment...a strong recognition that working overseas...is also in our national interest.”
  — David Hallam, [03:23]

• On audacity of the goals:
  “We should aim to achieve them. But...there’s an element of aspiration versus achievability...the point is to try and bend the curve.”
  — David Hallam, [16:16]

• On participatory development:
  “People wanted a voice in the decisions that affect their lives. And that’s what Goal 16 is all about.”
  — David Hallam, [06:33]

• On wish-list vs. action-list:
  “A wish list...sounds slightly pejorative. The agenda is very comprehensive...but it is an important list of the issues that matter for the world.”
  — David Hallam, [17:49]

Notable Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:39] Intro to SDGs and what’s new vs. MDGs
• [03:23] Discussing public perception of development aid in the UK
• [05:02] Resilience and the link between humanitarian and development work
• [06:33] Findings about what the most vulnerable people want—voice and participation
• [08:31] The universality of SDGs and planned changes for the UK
• [10:44] From “billions in aid to trillions in investment”
• [11:11] UK leadership on international tax and transparency
• [12:12] How domestic UK policy is shaped by SDGs (gender equality example)
• [16:16] Aspirational nature and purpose of global targets
• [17:49] Debate on whether SDGs serve as an actionable agenda or a wish list

Conclusion

David Hallam frames the SDGs as both an ambitious global project and as a set of practical priorities—including for wealthy countries. The podcast underscores how the UK envisions its domestic policies and international responsibilities as mutually reinforcing—the SDGs serving as both an inspiration and a tool for accountability. While acknowledging the challenges in achieving all targets, Hallam’s perspective emphasizes striving for progress, adapting to national contexts, and focusing on inclusivity and partnership.