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- [00:00]
Michael Boudreau
This is the Cherish podcast and I'm your host, Michael Boudreau. I'll be taking you for an inside look behind the glamorous facade of the interior design industry at a time when every aspect of the business, from sourcing to trends to marketing to dealing with clients, is undergoing rapid change. Founded in the late 18th century by whalers, Hudson, New York was the first incorporated city in the United States. And like many historic towns, it has undergone cycles of boom and bust. Due to its ideal location on the Hudson river, it grew quickly and became prosperous. Painters of the Hudson River School, including Frederic Church, Thomas Cole, Stanford Gifford, and Albert Bierstadt, depicted the region's national wonders and stunning paintings and attracted hordes of visitors. But in the latter half of the 20th century, industry shuttered. The Catskill resorts on the west side of the river began closing. The region suffered, and Hudson went into decline. Most recently, the town has been saved not by industry so much, but by antique dealers, designers, and style setters. The entire region has undergone a renaissance, and Hudson itself has become a hotbed of fine shopping, dining and design. I'm pleased to have with me today three people who know Hudson and the surrounding region very well and have seen how design has transformed both sides of the river. First up is Hannah Khatchadourian, who has been selling in Hudson since 2017 and opened the Modern Exchange on Hudson's Main street in 2020. Her shop features a beautifully curated selection of mid century Scandinavian and eclectic modern furnishings and shares space with two colleagues, Upstate Rags and IDA's Eye, which offers antiques and vintage lighting. So they've got style covered. She Hannah has seen Hudson blossom since she began selling and she understands the benefits as well as the drawbacks of gentrification. Welcome, Hannah.
- [02:03]
Hannah Khatchadourian
Hey, thanks so much for having me. It's so good to be here.
- [02:06]
Michael Boudreau
Elle Decor A List Designer Nick Olson is known for his colorful, quirky and charming interiors. In 2016, he found his first weekend house in the Hudson river Valley, an 18th century farmhouse in Dutchess county, which he restored and renovated and infusing it with his love of Americana and comfort. Recently, he traded that in for a second weekend place, which he is in the process of redoing. Hello, Nick.
- [02:30]
Nick Olson
Hi Michael. Thank you for having me.
- [02:32]
Michael Boudreau
So glad you're here. Finally we have the renowned New York photographer William Abranowicz, who has traveled the world photographing homes for top interior magazines. Bill has maintained a family escape in the western foothills of the Catskills for many years. His love of the region was the inspiration for his Beautiful new book just published by Van Damme, Country Homes of the Catskill Mountains and the Hudson River Valley, in which he documents 20 homes and studios of architects, painters, dealers, writers and curators. Welcome, Bill.
- [03:03]
William Abranowicz
Hi, Michael. Nice to see you.
- [03:05]
Michael Boudreau
Great to see you. So I'm just gonna confess. I went to Hudson many years ago. I won't say how long cause I will date myself. And I remember before I went because I knew there were some wonderful dealers that were opening up there and, and I think three people said to me, when you get to the main street of Hudson, make sure you go left, do not go right, do not go right. It's dangerous. It's dangerous, it's dangerous. Now the town has been so transformed. I'm always amazed when I go how many restaurants, I mean shops, antique shops, new brand branded shops. It's amazing how there's been this renaissance and I'd love to get a sense. I wanted to start with you, Hannah. How much you've seen change in the last. Since you opened in 2017. How has it changed and what inspired you to go there to begin with? My understanding is you were a nurse, is that correct?
- [03:55]
Hannah Khatchadourian
Yeah, I was a nurse. That was kind of my main profession and passion. And due to some unplanned kind of life changes, I couldn't do that any longer. So I dove into this, which I've always had a passion for. And 2017 launched with Cherish. That was awesome. It's kind of the propelling of the business. And then when Warren street became an opportunity, a couple of my really good friends who were dealers there just said, you know, you've got to come, it's awesome. You're going to love it. So the opportunity arose to open up on Warren in 2020. It happened to be the week before COVID so we did that. Crazy timing. For us, it came with a lot of uncertainty. But from what I've seen change, it used to be maybe a bit more of a spot where designers would come and mainly just designers. But now that post Covid boom, there's been so many more families. We've had such an influx of families moving in. So the clientele has changed a bit. And those changes have been pretty vast because it went from, like I said, just a little hotspot where I mean, it's always had some of the world's best dealers since the 80s, you know, like forever. But now there's people seeking other things. So I would say the changes I've seen is more families, a little bit more people looking for different Styles. So it's shifted a bit in that way, trying to fill their homes. So that's kind of the changes that I've seen personally.
- [05:24]
Michael Boudreau
Now, Bill, you were really a pioneer. I mean, you're in Margaretville, which is on the western side.
- [05:30]
William Abranowicz
Right.
- [05:32]
Michael Boudreau
But one of the things that impressed me about your book is, you know, people think, oh, country houses. They think rustic cabins, whatever. I mean, you have such a range. I mean, you have some historic properties, you know, Alana, things that you document in the book, but the houses of the architects, design, all those people, such a range of styles. There are some more rustic, bucolic, bohemian places, but there's some modern swans, which obviously the kind of person that Hannah's selling to as well. Very sleek and contemporary. And have you seen that mix change since you've been ye.
- [06:03]
William Abranowicz
You know, the economy that probably began in Hudson has slowly filtered out into the, you know, western Catskills and down into the Delaware Valley. There are certain portions that have always been, you know, sort of ahead of things, but with that came different types of architecture. And we built a house because we couldn't. You know, I didn't want to have to renovate an older house. I don't have the. I don't have the patience for it. I don't. I wanted new systems. I wanted an environmentally conscious house. It was kind of groundbreaking. When we first came up here, we came up here to ski. We didn't come up here for any other reason. And it has changed dramatically. It probably started about maybe right around the time Hannah's been talking about 2017, maybe a little bit before that, because Andes and Bavina and those towns, they had things going on. And then you start to realize that it's all been uncovered. There's large swaths of land between places. And you discover things as you drive down a road you'd never been to before and realize there's this magnificent modernist house, that they just appeared. You know, they just appeared, but maybe they had been there longer. Just. It's a lot of ground to cover between here and Hudson. I'm two hours from Hudson.
- [07:16]
Michael Boudreau
Right, right. And when you. When you were putting together your projects that you wanted to include in the book, how did you find them all? Do people suggest things to you? Did you basically know most of them?
- [07:27]
William Abranowicz
I knew. I knew most of the people. And then I was fortunate enough for those people to lead me to somebody else. You know, I knew Alan Wansenberg. I had done. I had photographed his book. Peter Frank, I'd worked with as a stylist for many, many years on editorial and ad campaigns, and one thing led to another. But most of the people I knew, I certainly had known of the Mark MacDonald I knew of from many, many years ago, both in New York and in Hudson. And Alan Wansenberg said, well, several people said, talk to Mark. You know, go see Mark.
- [08:02]
Hannah Khatchadourian
Yeah.
- [08:02]
William Abranowicz
And again, one thing led to another, but each house was a very big surprise. And being a little bit voyeuristic, it's just fascinating to be able to do.
- [08:13]
Michael Boudreau
Right, right. And, you know, again, Mark McDonald is a mid century dealer. He's not an Americana dealer. He doesn't sell, doesn't deal in quilts or, you know, Shaker furniture. So, Nick, you're on your second home in the area. So when did you first fall in love with it? And why did you stay? Why did you decide that this is someplace you were gonna keep your roots put down?
- [08:37]
Nick Olson
Roots? Good question. I was born and raised on the Florida Panhandle, like 10 minutes from the most beautiful white sand beaches. And I'm more of a water person. But even since childhood, I was kind of a romantic, weird kid who wanted to live on the front cover of the old Boxcar Children children's books, because they were like, raising themselves in a train in a boxcar.
- [09:01]
Michael Boudreau
I remember them well.
- [09:02]
Nick Olson
Right. And there was like a winding creek with, like, perfectly manicured lawn for the countryside right up to the creek. And that, like, never really escaped my consciousness. So I think I first went to Hudson back when I was still working for Miles Red in the early 2000s. But I. When I was on my own, a big client of mine bought a really charming farmhouse in Dutchess County, I think one of the oldest homes in the county from, like the 1750s in, like, in this valley. And he didn't want to really renovate too much. And it was sort of on a whim for him because he's more of a city person and more of a Hamptons person. But he kind of bought this house on a lark. And I decorated it in record time. And thanks to Michael, thanks to yourself, it was photographed and that summer. And I kept driving by this little yellow house on the way, and my right hand at the time was there the whole time. And she said on our last trip for the photo shoot, she said, you know, that little house you like has been for sale the whole time. And I was never looking at the for sale sign. I was only looking at this charming little yellow house up on the hill with these black shutters. And it was five minutes Away from the house. I was decorating. And that was the summer of 2015. And I was. That sort of, like, I needed something for myself. I was working very hard. I was single at the time. I didn't even own or lease a car. And I said, you know what? I'm gonna buy this house. Like, that house is for me. And I'm gonna figure out, because people buy and sell houses every day, like, why is this such a big deal? And I did, and it took some time. And then in the interim, my client decided that he couldn't stand the area, and he left.
- [10:46]
Michael Boudreau
So the one person you knew, right?
- [10:47]
Nick Olson
Yeah, right. Exactly. Well, I. But come to find out, I mean, this is how I. I'm not a planner. I'm a planner when it comes to my work, but this is how I vacation. This is. I have to go on my instinct. I knew. I kind of knew people in the area. Turns out, less than one minute drive away, literally around the corner is Christopher Spitzmiller, who I've known since I started in this industry, who's now an even closer friend along with his husband, Anthony. And it was a very long process because, like I said, I mean, I would get a zipcar in Manhattan, drive up to Dutchess county, meet with the contractor, and drive back in the same afternoon.
- [11:23]
Michael Boudreau
You were young then.
- [11:25]
Nick Olson
Yeah, right. I was really young and ambitious. But the area is. I mean, there's a reason all those painters were painting in the Hudson Valley. The light is so incredible. The. I was told that Dutchess county, in particular has such a high ratio of preserved farmland that hasn't gone to new growth forest. That you're driving on these country roads, and it feels like 18th century England. And they're, like Bill was saying, the diversity of the architecture. From 10 minutes away, there's a student of Frank Lloyd Wright house perched up on a hill. There was our former little house, like, sitting right close to the road. There are these crazy Greek revival horse farms, you know, and there's kind of everything in between. But to bring it back around, both our old property and our new house that we're renovating has my little creek, like, right on the side of the property line, so I can, like, fantasize about my boxcar children.
- [12:23]
Michael Boudreau
A dream fulfilled. Right?
- [12:24]
Nick Olson
Exactly. Simple pleasures. But I. Everybody has their happy place. And I would say because of COVID even though that was such a scary time, that little corner of Unionville, Burbank, Millbrook became like a really special place to me. And now to my partner, Sam.
- [12:44]
Michael Boudreau
Well, it's interesting. You always hear about areas, towns or areas that are revived by museums. Bilbao in Spain, when Frank Gehry came in, it transformed the town or. Or Dia and Beacon, which had a huge impact. Or mass MOCA up in Pittsfield, which I think that area is a little. Still struggling. But certainly Williamstown isn't. But it seems to me, and maybe I just want to believe this because I love design, I love designers, but it seems to me that Hudson really was revitalized by design and designers. Is that a fair thing to say? Hannah, what do you.
- [13:20]
Hannah Khatchadourian
I think so. I really do. I think that there's been some, you know, Vince Mulford, like, he was a really iconic designer who came with so much vision and had that beautiful, you know, the tin ballroom that's now Westerland. But I think that designers and also dealers alike really revitalized together, like without the design community, without dealers committed to Warren street and committed to bringing the best from all over the world and really bringing such a curated collection of things. Because it's not just like, one thing I love about Warren street is that, you know, it's not just one. One type of thing. There's so many different things. So I think that dealers and designers alike really gave it that. That boost and had something to do with. With the boom, for sure.
- [14:13]
William Abranowicz
Designers in particular and antiques dealers, creative people in those endeavors, and artists. It was affordable to live here as well. It was nice. It was a community that was building and that had been going on for a very, very long time. A very long time. Since the 1800s.
- [14:33]
Michael Boudreau
Yeah. It was always popular with artists. I mean, but, you know, artists were kind of a separate element of society.
- [14:40]
William Abranowicz
I think, in a way, creatives just in general. I mean, people of the creative ilk.
- [14:46]
Michael Boudreau
Right. But I think all of that sort of idea that artists are unapproachable or this, that, and the other thing that what used to be, or they were bohemian. That has sort of changed as well. So I think that there's more openness to, you know, and again, artists and gay people, whatever, always are on the forefront of real estate. And, you know, you. You know, they always say, you know, buy where gay people buy, because that's about to be rent.
- [15:10]
Nick Olson
They're trying to be.
- [15:12]
Michael Boudreau
Nick, you're working on that, please. You know, and I think that that is. That's sort of held true here, you know, but I mean, as beautiful as the region is, and it is beyond stunning, you're right. And it has the river, it has mountains, it's got waterfalls, it's got swimming holes, it's got open fields, it's got woods, it's got peaks and valleys. It is very dramatic landscape. But it was really neglected and forgotten. Not forgotten about people who lived there. Obviously. I don't mean to be condescending. People who lived there loved it, whatever, but it wasn't really thought of by New Yorkers as much as certainly the Hamptons or even the Berkshires. Although it's as close as the Berkshires, if not closer. So it's interesting to me how that got started and I do think that dealers had a lot to do with it. But of course that raised in. You mentioned this bill, affordability. So now that is changing. So how do you think that's going to affect. It's not as affordable as used to be. I mean, Hannah, I'm sure your rents haven't gone down.
- [16:12]
Hannah Khatchadourian
No, they're like right up there with the city, like Manhattan. I mean they're crazy. They really are. And I think that that's going to. It's difficult. Cause once that starts to happen, I think that the affordability and the accessibility, like the fact that we were like the difference between Hudson and the Hamptons, you know, the Hamptons is a huge commitment to get there. And I think that the pull for Hudson was the fact that, okay, two hours, I can take a scenic train ride from New York and be right on Warren street and a beautiful green ride. And I think that had a lot to do. A beautiful train ride, relax, two hours, boom, you're there. Right on Warren. So that has a lot to do with the continued popularity, I think, because it's just convenient and people can have nature and they can have beauty and they can have restaurants with a two hour train ride, you know, but the increase in rent and then the increase in just really everything, it's. It's hard to know what's going to happen from here, to be honest, because it does seem, and I'm curious to see what you, Bill and Nick think. But you know, it is bringing in a bit of a younger crowd now. And so it's changing a bit. And so the question is, is will we be able to keep up kind of with the, with the rhythm that we've been in with kind of this new burst of tourism that's a bit of a younger, younger crowd, you know, So I don't know, it's. It's interesting to see what will come from here.
- [17:38]
William Abranowicz
But yeah, there and these little communities that something like Livingston Manor, say, which is really in the Delaware Valley, you know, has the new Catskill art space. It's got all these new shots. It's kind of a mini Hudson and you're seeing these little satellite towns pop up. And I think overall the economy here has benefited pretty. You know, you can't get a contractor. It has. You don't see the poverty is still here. I know it's still here, but you see it, it's changing. You don't see the cars in the front yard. You don't see couches out, thrown. You know, I mean, it has lifted all boats, as one would say, you know, economically. And again, the design community has helped that dramatically. Dramatically.
- [18:27]
Nick Olson
I mean, we were having coffee at the maker at their little coffee shop restaurant and sitting next to, I think a couple and then a friend of theirs, and they were having the most like sort of low key, pretentious one upmanship conversation about like, how can we out upstate each other to the point that the one. One woman in her like Carhartt and her denim or whatever, and she was like, well, I actually make my pottery from the clay behind my house in my own creek. And I'm just like, oh my God, like there is that ele for sure.
- [19:02]
Michael Boudreau
Top that.
- [19:03]
Nick Olson
Yeah, yeah. And meanwhile we are totally covered in mud from the garden or from like whatever. Not that we're like such doers and like handy people, but I just go back to the real characters of Hudson. I mean, like to me it's like Colin Stair Stair Galleries. Like Alphonse Sutter. I remember Tom when Tom Noonan. I don't know if Tom Noonan is still alive, but years ago when he closed up his shop, I went to the Stair Galleries auction of his not estate, but of whatever he wanted to sell at the time. And Colin gets up on the microphone at the auction and says, tom Noonan wants you to know that he's not dead. He just hates people. And the Internet, I'm like, I can respect that. So, yeah, he doesn't want to sell stuff over the Internet. Good for you.
- [19:50]
Michael Boudreau
But Nick, I'm sure. Well, I'm not sure, but I would guess that your second house was not less expensive than your first house. It.
- [19:59]
Nick Olson
Well, there's a whole. I won't tell you the whole story behind it. It wasn't. But for the land that it's on and the area, I still think I got a bargain, knock on wood. This seems to happen to me real estate wise. The. Well, the gentleman selling it had. It had been in his family for 150 years and it was once Part of a much bigger farm. And it's this like, really exotic high style Greek revival in the middle of nowhere, essentially. And I've been driving by because all I did during COVID lockdown was drive by houses. Like you were saying, Bill, just like, let's go down this road and see what's here. Like, hope they don't think that I'm a criminal. But my partner and I were driving by after lockdown and I said, I want to show you this house. It's really cool. It's set way back and it's not for sale. And as soon as I said that, he goes, it's for sale. We have to call. So we pulled over on the side of the road, called the broker, yada, yada, yada. I mean, it was a long thing, but this man shook my hand with tears in his eyes and said, I know this property is supposed to go to you because I know you're gonna do something amazing with it. So I was like, it was really meant to be. So they still. It was meant to be. And there were many other hoops to jump through before the closing, but that was the, you know, fairy tale part of the story.
- [21:14]
Michael Boudreau
And how about the renovation? Cause as Bill was saying, I'm sure there's like, not enough. And we've done podcasts about this. There's not enough artisans, contractors, even electricians under the best of circumstances. So has that become more difficult than your first renovation?
- [21:31]
Nick Olson
It has. And we're kind of acting as our own general contractors, which is a blessing and a curse. Overall, we've been lucky with the people that we hired because even if the work isn't at like a. A Manhattan decorator standard, they showed up and they didn't take the money and run.
- [21:49]
William Abranowicz
Got it done.
- [21:50]
Nick Olson
Yeah. Because that has happened to our friends and our neighbors. And it's because, listen, in 2023, it costs a fortune.
- [22:00]
Hannah Khatchadourian
Hi, everybody. Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Cherish podcast. I'm Ana Brockway, president and co founder of Cherish. We're taking a quick break to fill you in on some exciting news. Cherish is launching an extended return policy only for interior designers. Cherish trade members will now have access to the best return window in the industry, with a full 14 days to return qualifying purchases, including on international fines. This limited time offer ends on October 31st. For more details, visit cherish.comtrade that's C H A I R I S H And now back to the show.
- [22:43]
Michael Boudreau
What do you think is going to happen next? Because I think design now is integral to Hudson and the region. Like, another great example of design doing good is Bradford starting Field and Supply in Kingston on the other side of the river. And, like a maker's fair and everything. And the fall one is coming October 6th, and I think it's for long weekend, and that attracts a lot of people, which is all great, and God knows we need more makers and we need to support the makers. It's another thing we've done podcasts about. So do you think that this design focus is going to continue, do you think? Is there resentment from the locals about any of this? With all these, as Hannah was saying, all these young families, all people coming in new, what else can design do to keep this town and the region going?
- [23:33]
Nick Olson
I mean, I think the maker aspect, the creativity and the design factor is not going away anytime soon. And I think speaking of the, like, a rising tide lifts all ships economically. I don't get how any local crusty or not crusty, could kind of be offended by kind of revenue coming into the local economy. I think Bradford, who is fabulous, like, does such an amazing job with Field and Supply. I mean, am I buying, like the $900, like, Klein Blue cashmere scarf or like, wool scarf? Probably not, but I like that it's there and that people are showing what they can do. Kingston, I think in particular, the geography of Kingston and the layout of the downtown, to me is like the most compelling in the Hudson Valley. That little Rondout and the way things sit up on the hill, I just think is fascinating.
- [24:21]
William Abranowicz
Stunning city.
- [24:22]
Nick Olson
Yeah, right. With so much potential.
- [24:25]
Michael Boudreau
And Field and Supply is fabulous. I mean, it's like it gets all kinds of people and it's only expanded and now it's but once a year. Now it's twice a year, spring and fall. I think he's going to do branches. So it's interesting to me that there seems to be a hunger for it and designers want it and will support it. But I guess my question is, how far can this area go as a design thing? As you know, Bill, you were already saying more satellite towns. What's going to happen next? Are there areas that are still can be rediscovered? Is it.
- [25:03]
William Abranowicz
It's a big area. It's a big area. It's a very big area.
- [25:07]
Michael Boudreau
It is a big area. But is Hudson gonna be taken over by Crate and Barrow?
- [25:11]
Hannah Khatchadourian
I think that it's gonna take some work, to be honest. Being there on Warren street and kind of seeing the, you know, the ups and the downs. I think it's gonna take creativity of the shop owners to bring people in and to keep the attention of interior designers. Post Covid, there was boom. We couldn't even keep inventory in stock. It was like you saw a pair of leather club chairs. Well, you better buy them now because they will not be here next week. And although our business is continuing to thrive, we do have other outlets. So I think that dealers and we'll have to be kind of creative in ways to keep designers interested. What I love is. I love all. You know, it's not just antique shops. It's like what. What Lev did by opening the maker and just. And using such incredible finishings and just making it a beautiful experience. Like a lot of the smaller hotels and restaurants that continue to really help with the draw to bring people back. But as far as, like, the design community, I mean, I'm curious too, because I do think it's rooted. The roots go deep. So I would think it's because, like, you had mentioned the Frederick church from Olana. Like, growing up, that was one of my favorite places to go. And before I even knew I would have anything to do with design. I just remember being a little kid and looking at that architecture and the, you know, the views of the Catskill mountains and the bridge and just my breath being taken away. So there are so many rooted things, even in nature around Hudson that bring us back to design. But there are competing. You know, Great Barrington is a huge. A lot of my clients are headed there. They do Millerton, you know, Kingston. There's a lot of competing towns, for sure. I still pretty strongly would say in confidence that Warren street holds the best quantity and quality of dealers in one spot. Really? Really. In the U.S. i mean, it's kind of like it's. It's a pretty amazing street for just being able to come and in one mile or however long, you know, whatever blocks you're hitting, some of the best merchandise and dealers from all over the world.
- [27:28]
William Abranowicz
If you walk through Andy's, you can see the entire main street in a few minutes. If you walk through Hudson, it's going to take you a long time, you know, to go all the way down and all the way back. You know, it's a much, much bigger. You know, that Warren street is long, and it wasn't long.
- [27:44]
Michael Boudreau
No, I remember there were literally, I think, five dealers on Warren street the first time I went. And it's. I get. And it's like, how do you sustain that? And again, like I was saying, without it becoming attractive to, you know, room and Board or Craig Merrill? I mean.
- [27:59]
William Abranowicz
Well, the town has to. The town has to. I mean, one of the things that Hudson has is this intensely involved community. You know, there's.
- [28:06]
Michael Boudreau
The community is.
- [28:07]
William Abranowicz
And a lot of the other upstate towns, you know, there is involvement by. I guess what I would say. I don't know if we're newcomers anymore, but Hudson has had that for a long time. The community members put their foot down. They, you know, they want to keep it the way it is. And some communities aren't like that.
- [28:26]
Nick Olson
It needs people to get involved. Our community, we've seen the historic photographs that look like it's a wonderful life with the covered bridge and the railroad station and just the clapboard, everything. And now it's a McDonald's and a Dunkin and a Chase bank and a CVS. And the community was not as active. And I'm not saying, you know, these people don't need jobs and commerce doesn't have to continue, but it has lost much of the charm, I have to say, poor Pleasant Valley.
- [28:53]
Michael Boudreau
But the problem is, as we know, charm can be expensive.
- [28:57]
Nick Olson
Maintaining it is expensive to maintain historic.
- [28:59]
Michael Boudreau
Structures, houses, whether or shops or whatever is really hard. And people have to understand the value of that. And I think a lot of these towns. And listen, they went through, as you were saying, Bill, poverty. They've been through hard times. People come in with money. They see that and they're going to take it. So I guess it'll go by town by town, region by region, obviously. But it's interesting that Hudson has managed to avoid that. And it's interesting what you were saying, Bill, about the community involvement. And Hannah, is there a group of an organization or something that the dealers all belong to or, you know, do they publicize, like, days come up to HUDs, Hudson weekend or whatever? Do they do that kind of thing?
- [29:38]
Hannah Khatchadourian
They do. I think it was more active, like, probably, you know, years before. I am a little embarrassed to say that I'm not really part of it, if there is one. But it doesn't mean that. It doesn't mean that I don't. There is like an antique association, you know, how. How relevant it is or how, you know, especially now since social media has become more of a platform. I'm not sure kind of how relevant it is today. But, you know, we do things like. Okay, so for, like Winter Walk, for instance, all the dealers kind of collaborate and put, you know, do their windows and then compete for the best window and to try to bring, you know, to. And so there's little Things like that, that happen where the. Where the dealers try to participate, whether it be in, you know, the parades or the holidays or things like that. And then some of the local newspapers will do articles or, you know, magazines will do articles here and there. But, yeah, I mean, it's interesting to see what the future of it holds. I'm excited. I think people have to be kind of committed to just. Just continuing to carry on the legacy. I mean, it really has been all these years, and it's amazing to think, because I grew up upstate, you know, the rest of my family's from Long Island. We. I remember when I was little, I mean, Hudson was considered, you know, like, dangerous. You know, there was not. It's like, okay, we don't need to go down this stretch.
- [31:02]
Michael Boudreau
A lot of drugs.
- [31:03]
Hannah Khatchadourian
A lot of drugs. You know, with the river right there and the prisons and, you know, there's so much. So to see, really, what the design community and what antiques and art, because art has definitely played the neutral. What it's done is remarkable, and I hope it just continues to grow and people continue to appreciate.
- [31:22]
Michael Boudreau
But it is a challenge, because God knows there's not as many brick and mortar stores there used to be. Even in Manhattan, there's not as many brick and mortar stores as there used to be, and plenty of empty storefronts and not as many home stores or design stores as there used to be. So it's fascinating that Hudson, at least so far, has, you know, not only escaped that, but gone in the opposite direction. It is really flourishing.
- [31:45]
Hannah Khatchadourian
Well, and I'll say this. We can't find brick and mortar. There's not enough brick and mortar on Warren street. Because if there was more, it would be a wonderful thing. But, like, to actually find that large storefront, we don't have enough.
- [31:59]
Nick Olson
Right.
- [31:59]
Hannah Khatchadourian
You know, so the outer. Like the towns, you know, the streets like State street and Union and all, you know, will go kind of off of Warren, and people are having to branch.
- [32:08]
William Abranowicz
But have you ever been to Margaretville?
- [32:11]
Michael Boudreau
Yeah.
- [32:12]
Nick Olson
Come on over.
- [32:13]
Michael Boudreau
I bet there's some empty stores there, right, Bill?
- [32:15]
Nick Olson
Yeah.
- [32:16]
Hannah Khatchadourian
And wait, Nick, what was the town?
- [32:18]
Nick Olson
Pleasant Valley.
- [32:19]
Hannah Khatchadourian
Pleasant Valley.
- [32:20]
Nick Olson
Well, I'll give you the tour.
- [32:21]
Michael Boudreau
It took 10 minutes.
- [32:22]
Hannah Khatchadourian
I mean, I live on the other side of the river. I live in West Cooksake, where there's been a major boom. But, I mean, I. You know, it does push some of us, like. It's funny, all three of us. It doesn't look like any one of us live right there on Warren Street.
- [32:35]
William Abranowicz
You know, we had Several galleries. We have a few. Some wonderful artisan shops. It's pretty incredible, but it's tiny. You know, it's a tiny town, but yeah. And you wind up in. You're in the car a lot. You know, we drive a lot.
- [32:49]
Michael Boudreau
Right, right, right. I guess. And this is another thing. A lot of them sell online, Cherish or whatever. You know, they have the websites, which I guess helps them keep going because especially in the winter, these towns can be rather bleak, as I have experienced. So, you know, Hannah, if you found that this town slows down in the winter, I mean, I would assume it does.
- [33:12]
Hannah Khatchadourian
But, you know, it's so interesting, Michael, because it's hard to know. I think, like, I have it figured out and then like, the next year is a little bit different. So I. Our store in particular, we. We only have like, furniture. So if people aren't coming in looking and. Well, and rugs. Joanna sells, you know, antique rugs. So we don't have like, tourism type items. So my.
- [33:39]
Michael Boudreau
You're not selling potpourri.
- [33:41]
Hannah Khatchadourian
No. Or candles or any of it for that matter. Which we should. But our summers tend to be really slower for us. Oh, interesting. Yeah. And then kind of come fall, summers slow down a bit. It doesn't mean traffic is slowing down. It just means, like, people, really, people are traveling, they're in Europe. And then the people that are local are kind of wanting to mosey with their coffee cups. You know, it's like a different buzz. So we look forward to, like, fall gets really busy. We stay busy through the holidays, and then we may lull down a little bit, you know, in like March, Febr. But for the most part, summer tends to be a bit slower for like, furniture and like, big piece movement, which is when we're super grateful for Cherish and the platform that they've provided. And then I also sell at shows, so I'm gearing up for my show season, which I can't wait for, get.
- [34:36]
Michael Boudreau
You out on the road.
- [34:37]
Hannah Khatchadourian
But now there's so many incredible little, like, bars and restaurants and there are like. And they stay open all year. So that helps with the. With the full year traffic. And the maker has been a real pull for like, it's booked constantly. So, you know, there's always somebody in town where it used to kind of empty out. But now, you know, between Barbeen and for Feast in Flora and some of the awesome restaurants, you know, Rivertown, it kind of keeps people moseying. But yeah, if it's freezing, you know, they want to get in Your store to warm up and then keep going. And they keep going. Yeah.
- [35:13]
Michael Boudreau
You know, and, you know, again, Bill, looking at your book, one of the things that I realized, I mean, I sort of knew this, but you might have put it right in front of my eyes beautifully, is I think that this is an area, you know, the larger area, western, the Catskills and Hudson Valley, that really does attract people like Nick, who are dreamers and, you know, want to live individually because there's such a range of properties, styles of houses. It really does inspire people to be themselves at their best, I think. Or to explore different things and try. Whether it's a historic renovation or a new house that's sleek and.
- [35:52]
William Abranowicz
Well, particularly during the pandemic, it was just a remarkable thing to be up here and in nature, you know, because it just. It was so incredibly soothing. I have a friend in New York who said that she used to go. Just simply go over to the river and watch the water flow and. But up here, it was the same thing. Just to step outside, to be able to do that, was a great thing.
- [36:15]
Michael Boudreau
Yeah. And I think your next book, Bill, has to be the Gardens of the Catskills.
- [36:21]
William Abranowicz
Well, I'll tell you, there were a number of gardens that. There's so many ideas. I can't. I can't sit still as it is. So having more. More, you know, and because, you know.
- [36:37]
Michael Boudreau
Once you have your house and once you furnish your house, then you start dealing with the garden, and you gotta furnish the garden as well, you know, so.
- [36:45]
William Abranowicz
Yeah, no, there's a lot of opportunities. And like I said, it's a big region, so you never really find it.
- [36:52]
Michael Boudreau
All right. And there's a space for everybody. Right.
- [36:55]
William Abranowicz
Which is a space for everybody. I mean, how many years ago were people, photographers, primarily living in the Stone Ridge area, you know, and that was probably around the same time as the Hudson. Sort of the first. First boom generationally, for me in Hudson. So it's happened. Hopefully it'll continue. It's up to a lot of things, the economy and our politics and all of those things. But as long as people are producing, it's affordable, too. It is still affordable. You may have to go further and further and further, but.
- [37:31]
Michael Boudreau
Right.
- [37:31]
Nick Olson
It's true.
- [37:32]
Michael Boudreau
And, you know, listen, creating is one thing, maintaining is another, and they're equally difficult. But I think the region is on such an upswing, and now. And the, you know, people are aware of it and coming to Hudson, and I think anyone who goes to Hudson is not gonna be disappointed. Like we were saying there's restaurants, there's galleries.
- [37:50]
William Abranowicz
It's a magic town.
- [37:51]
Michael Boudreau
It's a magic town. And the region around is so beautiful, like you said. So we're gonna encourage everyone to do what Nick did and just go down those roads and explore. Bill, you know, finding things. And maybe you'll find their dream house, they'll find their dream dealer. Hannah, I think it's like, really a wonderful area. And go to field and supply October 6th. That weekend, Discover the area. Kingston's fabulous, you know.
- [38:20]
Nick Olson
And Michael, not to knock the Hamptons, but I do think, go ahead, knock the Hudson Valley. It triggers me because I have to drive there at 6am tomorrow morning. Yeah. So it triggers me due to work. But I know its beauty and I know its charm.
- [38:35]
Michael Boudreau
It is beautiful.
- [38:36]
Nick Olson
The Hudson Valley, the whole region is kind of choose your own adventure. And it's full of people who don't leave Manhattan, whether on the weekends or full time, to get exactly their Manhattan or Hamptons experience. They want something else. And that can have its own bougie connotations too. But I don't need to go to a chain restaurant that I enjoy in Soho, like the Hamptons Outpost. You know what I mean? It's like we want to experience different things and have that sense of discovery too, which, you know, millions of other people have discovered it as well. It's like not our first thing, but that's the charm for me.
- [39:13]
Hannah Khatchadourian
It's beautiful. It's like a storybook. It's gorgeous. But I think what people really do love about Hudson and what keeps them coming back is just the authenticity and the fact that you can kind of be who you want to be. You can wear what you want to wear. There's not pressure. There's nothing. People truly can be their authentic self. And sometimes that's, you know, produced in art, or it's produced how somebody's walking down the street, but it truly is like you come there to just chill, and that's what people love.
- [39:40]
William Abranowicz
Architecture is a heck of a lot better.
- [39:42]
Nick Olson
Yeah, I agree. I agree too. Heck of a lot.
- [39:45]
Michael Boudreau
And you don't have to make your own pottery from your own clay in the backyard. Right, Nick? If you want to, but you don't have to. No.
- [39:53]
Nick Olson
But if you do, please don't talk about it in public. Thank you so much.
- [39:57]
Michael Boudreau
Well, I want to thank you all. I want to thank my marvelous guest, Hannah Katchadourian.
- [40:02]
Hannah Khatchadourian
Thank you so much.
- [40:02]
Michael Boudreau
Philip Ronowitz and Nick Olson.
- [40:04]
Nick Olson
Thank you. My pleasure.
- [40:05]
Michael Boudreau
And thank everyone for listening to the Cherish Podcast. You've been listening to the Cherish Podcast, brought to you, of course, by Cherish, which was recently voted by the readers of USA Today as the best place to shop online for furniture and home decor. If you enjoyed this episode, please tell a friend or colleague. Or better yet, go to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. We appreciate your help in spreading the word and we would love your ideas for future episodes. Please email us@podcasterish.com the Cherish podcast is produced by Britta Muller and engineered by Hanger Studios in New York. Until next time, Sam.