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The Championdrive Podcast
Episode 3.6 - Barn Renos Part 3 + Flare from Essential Feeds
00:46:52
Part 3 of the Barn Renovations Podcast + a new product from Essential Feeds, Flare + So You Suck at Marketing: Bred Ewe Sale Packages
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- [00:02]
A
Now entering the ring, another episode of the Champion Drive podcast, presented by Novel Designs.
- [00:10]
B
Today is our third segment of the Barn Renovations podcast. I hope you found the first two segments really good. I know we've had a lot of really good feedback on it. So before we get too far into it, there's been a lot of stuff going on@championdrive.com our results crew has been doing an awesome job. We've had really good coverage from Exarbon, eyo, Tulsa, the later state fairs, and we've got the American Royal coming up here in just a few weeks. Be sure to visit championdrive.com to check out the results. Also coming up this fall, we're not too far off from bread use sale season. I know some of us are into fall lambing or just getting ready to start fall lambing, but it also is time for online Bread you Sale season. With Fall Bread you sales, we always offer an advertising package and we have a package put Together again for 2025 through Novel Designs. This package includes five social media graphics. Those work great to announce your sale date to help, maybe have some graphics for each specific lot to do, a thank you post, or anything else that might be notable about your sale. It also includes a homepage announcement on ChampionDrive.com that runs for three days, as well as a headliner ad that runs for a week on championdrive.com it also includes a tweet and app notification to get the word out about your sale. We can we typically recommend running your tweet on the day of your sale to kind of remind people when your sale is going to be closing. And it also gets included on our ChampionDrive.com podcast that you're listening to, as well as our weekly email blast. So if that's something that's of interest to you, if you're having an online brand new sale, be sure to reach out to us and get that booked in advance. The kind of the whole point of it is it's not just to be done all at the very end. It's kind of to help give you some reach and get some exposure for your sale the weeks leading up to your sale. So by all means, now's the time to jump on that. Before we get into part three, we have another section of the Essentials from Essential Feed and this week we're going to hear about a new product from them. This week in the Essentials we're talking about a new product that Essential Feeds has recently came out with called Flair. Barrett Carlisle is here today to talk with us a Little bit about the new product. Barrett, tell us all about Flair.
- [02:15]
C
Yeah, we've been testing this product for a couple months now and have had very good success on it or very good feedback on it from people that have been trying it. Flair has is a product that I would say is kind of a high protein, high fiber product. We've seen really, really help just in terms of like opening up their upper body, making their upper rib cage look real full and real opened up. We've also seen an advantage just in terms of those sheep back shape and their handle quality. So I think just in terms of adding center body, opening them up up high and making their backs bigger and fresher flare I think is going to be very well received. The results so far have been very, very good. So excited to get this one on the market.
- [03:02]
B
So when would I start including that? When I'm feeding show limbs? At what point do you start feeding that? Do you wait till they're a certain point? Do you start them young? What are you suggesting on that?
- [03:12]
C
Honestly, we kind of view this as a product that you can feed for a pretty extended period of time and honestly I think the earlier you can get them on it, the better. We've seen through testing in this kind of early feeding phase here as we've made this product, we've had a variety of weight and maturity of sheep on it. And so it seems like those young green ones that just need popped apart or opened up have responded very well. So I guess long story short, the sooner you can start it, the better.
- [03:44]
B
And how much do you suggest feeding?
- [03:46]
C
Most people have started that kind of 2 to 4 ounce rate per feeding, kind of work up to 6 ounces on fatter, more mature ones. We've actually seen it work very well in terms of dialing their base feedback and kind of getting up there to that kind of half a pound per feeding rate. It is very high fiber, so they will get pretty full. I think if you try to push too much grain and too much of this at the same time, they get pretty full. And so you might see some dial back in terms of just total consumption. So kind of recommend on those kind of fatter, more mature ones, go ahead and dial your base feedback. If you want to bump this up so early on, I'd say kind of that 4 to 6 ounce rates where you need to be. And if you need to push it on some that are older or more mature, you can go up to half a pound.
- [04:39]
B
Gotcha. And lastly, how would our listeners order Flair?
- [04:43]
C
So it is new it should be on the website. The Essential Website this week we're going to initially offer a 40 pound bag that you can order and have shipped to you off of the website. We will also offer a 20 pound bucket of it if you want a smaller quantity. But since it's a product that you can feed for an extended period of time at a higher volume, we are gonna offer it in a 40 pound bag. Be checking the Essential Website this well.
- [05:11]
B
As always, be sure to visit championdrive.com for more information about Essential Feeds and their new product Flair. Well, I think that takes care of all the opening items that we need to tackle. So let's get right in to our third segment of the Barn Renovations podcast. As we've mentioned before, our guests on this one are Chad Charmerson, Jake Warntjez, Brian Riley and Cody Schmincke. These guys have been a great resource, so I hope you'll enjoy the third and final section of of the Barn Renovations podcast. Let's go into the next question. What is one of the things in your barn you thought you'd never use, but you use all the time?
- [05:51]
D
I'll go. Chad's gonna love this answer because he gave it to us as a barn warming gift. But it's a leaf blower and we use it to clean everything. But mainly is fence line feeders. And so when those fence line feeders either get manure or just feed dust or whatever it may be in them, we use a leaf blower. Just a battery powered leaf blower runs on one of the drill batteries and that thing makes cleaning feeders like a breeze and we use it every single day.
- [06:24]
E
With that said, I we first started doing this, I thought there was nothing better than a broom and a shovel. And you sweep and you do what you need to. You clean out the fence line feeders with a broom or whatever the case is. And there's a leaf blower in nearly. Well, there's a leaf blower in every building on our farm. Something a couple of buildings have two because I run the batteries down. I just need to go get another one. But the joke around here is, as Amy says, the day I kick the bucket pass away, however you want to word it, the leaf blowers are going with me because I will I drive everybody nuts. Like we blow these barns out two, three times a day. I can't deal with dust, I can't deal with stuff in the feeders. So the leaf blowers are one thing that I would say that I never really thought myself I would use that Much. And with that said, I thought Jake and Taylor were gonna kill me. But that was, that was their barn warming gifts. When they built a barn. I bought Taylor a leaf blower. Specifically Taylor. But now that we have wind on the ground, I don't know that Taylor uses it near as much as probably what Jake does.
- [07:36]
B
I'm gonna chime in on that. I got a leaf blower earlier this year and I was with you. Like I would sweep and sweep and sweep and I don't know the last time I've actually swept, I just use the leaf blower. It's awesome. And I hadn't thought about cleaning out the fence line feeders with it. Normally I like, I'll be leaf blowing while we're still in the middle of legs. And I know it annoys everyone. It's like, well, can't you wait until we're done? Like, well, but we have the leaf blower. Why not? So I'm with you. A leaf blower is awesome.
- [08:02]
F
I don't know if it's something in the barn, but the last skid steer we bought, one of the options was a backup camera. And when I asked Calvin about it, he's like, yeah, you should get that to be pretty handy. And I thought that's the dumbest thing ever. We're never going to use it. It's the first thing I turn on when I get in that thing. It is fantastic. The thing I wouldn't ever do again is that in floor heat in a sheep area. Not a good, not a good spend.
- [08:28]
E
I thought I was nuts for even buying a skid loader to start with when you could. But the backup camera, when once we did buy a skid loader, I don't, I, I was out of pocket with our skid loader for three days around here. Four days. And I literally thought I had lost my right arm. Like I didn't realize how much you use that on the daily. It's a great investment. Jake.
- [08:53]
A
Jake, you need like one of them old little like mighty Macs or like a walk behind freaking skid loader we got.
- [09:00]
D
Yeah, they're about, they're about the price of a normal one. So that's. They are, that's on the list right up there with our, our sort and shoot as a skid loader.
- [09:09]
E
Hey, they still haven't, they still haven't drawn a Powerball winner.
- [09:14]
D
I'll go buy a few tickets.
- [09:16]
B
For those of you wanting to get on Jake's good side. So far the Christmas list is kids, kids steer and working shoes.
- [09:22]
E
They'll add Tyler Rhodes.
- [09:24]
A
That saying ours is. It's a funny story, but when we first built our barn, we didn't put a concrete run in. And me and mom did that when dad was gone. And that is by far where your alleyway is. Make that sucker concrete. Don't, don't piss around with lime. Like Chad says, we can clean it, we can blow it, you can broom it. Mom for one of her birthdays, I got a cart to just move, you know, from one end of the barn to the other to move five gallon buckets around with feed. It's, it's the little things that make, make life easier, make the gates simple as possible in terms of the way they sing, the way they work so the kiddos can, can do it and have fun with it. And now everything is it. Now dad takes claim to it, but.
- [10:22]
E
I will take claim. I'll. I will take claim to the concrete. But Ash Candy, who pushed for that as much as anybody and kept bringing it up.
- [10:30]
A
Oh yeah, but it was great.
- [10:33]
B
What's the, you know, Brian's least favorite thing that he spent money on that he never uses or wasn't worth the investment was in floor heat. What about the rest of y'? All? I can answer this one. On mine, we put. My barn used to be open sided and over the years we closed it all in and we put overhead garage doors on it. And I convinced myself I needed automatic openers on it. And those lasted about three to four months before they started acting up or you get enough crap built up that the stores just stay shut. And I don't think, I think we unhooked them and we've never used them.
- [11:07]
A
I would do sliders if you, if you got the room, you know, you've seen other guys do that. And when it's in our country and it, it's cold, but you want to get some fresh air in or, you know, you can open that slider up just barely little or open up, you know, halfway and then close them down at night. I spent a lot of money in overhead doors and sliders are way cheaper and, and a little more handy.
- [11:38]
E
The sliders are ideal. The problem I have with our overhead doors, if I was, you know, as far as ventilation is concerned, you want some air to come in these barns at times for us in the winter, but I don't really want it to be at the ground like I want the air to come in from up higher. So when we want to raise those overhead doors, that's probably, I Like our sliders on the east side of our barn. As much as I do anything. The overhead door. When we built the addition onto our barn and we put that surgery room in, I thought the only thing to do was to put an in and out area in that room so that we wheel cradles in, do the pro, do the surgery or AI and whatever and wheel them out the other end. We did overhead doors on that little roll up where they roll up into each other. Hindsight and again the fami hears this, she's probably going to cringe but I would like to change those out and just do a big or either double doors or whatever that. That seal that off. Those little roll up overhead doors. If I have one regret, I thought it was ideal for that because we can also pull in there with skid loader, set a pallet of feed in, push it in however we need to. But they're not sealed off enough. There's too much. There's too much gaps like and again me being OCD and want everything clean and in our surgery room it collects a lot of dust and it's coming from those two overhead doors on each side of our building. So if I have a regret I'd have much rather have just done walk through big walk through doors or double doors in that scenario. You're just going to keep that area a lot cleaner.
- [13:20]
A
Yeah. I based our surgery room off yours and I did those four foot so you can roll the cart through. That's nice because you can actually shut it.
- [13:29]
E
Yep.
- [13:31]
A
Them doors and then you have a wall to flip them used onto.
- [13:35]
E
Yep.
- [13:35]
A
If anybody's awake me they're flipping them onto. You got a spot for that cart to sit.
- [13:41]
B
Let's go. The next question was submitted and the basis of this question was in regard to keeping body temps of your use down while still providing good nutrition having pastured. Utilize. Any tips on how to keep your barn cooler in the summer?
- [13:56]
E
In our summer heat, even though it's humid as can be at times, we still on our donors primarily we run big Porter cools on the donors. We don't have anything enclosed enough or like shut completely down. I mean an ideal situation I think would be to have those donors in a cool dark place all the time. That's not feasible around here. Even with our bucks. We've got Porter cools on our bucks and good airflow and try to keep that. That facility and it keeps their body temperature a lot cooler. I think the bedding scenario, as you well know as. As if you keep too much Dirty bedding in there and nobody. And even in our summertime you hate to keep. People always ask me why are you cleaning those out and bedding on straw? Straw is hot. Well, buildup of manure and urine and everything also causes heat. So we try to keep those, those U pins as clean as we can. We're still going to bed just because I don't want them on dirt and it causes more dust and more work for me with a leaf blower. So Porter cools and good airflow and good ventilation. We do feed you know as far as some different additives and stuff on, on body temperature. One thing that and it gets expensive. There's no doubt. But on our donors specifically we will feed the sure Champ extreme that has a climate control in it. A big fan of that. We use it in our show lambs and the goats and the does as well. I think it helps regulate their body temperature. But I'll top dress those donors feed with it. It's not ideal and definitely not feasible from a financial standpoint to do that through a whole you flock. But on our donors I do try to pamper them as much as possible. So they've got the Portacool on them. They've got the coolest pin in the barn and then they do get that sure Champ climate control. With that on their feet as well.
- [16:02]
D
I think we can, I mean really just kind of go back to the ventilation talk from most of that standpoint. Like I said, we've Sullivan's makes a bigger, deeper version of like a turbo fan they call a show barn fan. They're quieter and they, they push more air and we've got those throughout the barn and they push a pile of air and then we've got multiple turbo fans and we've got you know, fans kind of scattered all around. So just as much airflow as possible and we'll get that thing opened up as much as possible and get a natural airflow through there and those things stay pretty cool. I would say spray foam or some sort of barn insulation is worth every penny. It's expensive on the front end but the, the amount of break that it gives you from the heat when it's 110 degrees outside in Oklahoma is just amazing. So you know those use will be out at night and they'll be out first thing in the morning. And then when it starts to heat up they'll find find some shade in the barn under those fans and makes a world of difference just having the insulation to where they can stay cool and and not be just sitting there panting all day.
- [17:19]
F
Yeah, this is Brian, you know, just moving air, shade and moving air. And if shade is.
- [17:27]
D
Move the air.
- [17:27]
F
We, we use those big 52 inch fans but you got to have height for those because there's no cage or anything on them. They're totally exposed. Like I say they're, they're great for, for taking care of birds so you could lose limb or finger pretty easy. But they, they're quiet. They're super quiet compared to the Sullivan's fans and, and they just move an unbelievable amount of air. You know, here with it being as humid as it is. And I know Chad down there, you guys are as humid too. But I just. We've never tried the Port of Cools. Sometimes I think those things that just add to the humidity here and would be more of a challenge. But we just move air.
- [18:12]
A
Yeah. So Jake, we have those same ones in there and, and guys, if you're wanting to do that in this part of the country, before you put them up, go remove all the shroud off them because if you're moving a lot of air they're going to fill up with debris really quick. Coming again from the guy that's got to clean them, get rid of them and, and, or get a fan that does not have a shroud like Brian talked about in our part of the country and, and move some air with that because that air gets very limited very quickly. I'm a huge believer in mini splits in our part of the country to get rid of that humidity AI rooms with it. My entire shop is done with that. Every room we had build now has mini splits in it. And honestly we buy them off Amazon and put them in ourselves and do it at a way more cost protective area to get rid of that humidity instead of running like port coolers. Our next step I, I truly think is to have a spot where those donors sit. That's a. And and the receipts for that matter. That's got three or four pins in it that I could temperature control and I can control that element, control that. And they're in a dark cool place and you know they go out at night and they go out in the morning early and they come back in. I think that's something that to come. But trying to control that element because I mean Brian can talk here. It was 90%, 100% humidity. It felt like in 100 plus degrees that nothing like that. Including us.
- [19:58]
B
Okay, the next question, this one kind of hit home with me. How do you handle when you run out of lambing jugs during lambing season.
- [20:05]
E
This is Chad. So this is a scenario for us. That's why we ended up going to an additional pin, utilizing an additional pin next to what I guess would be our drop pin. When you run out, you build more. You find a spot. I don't think it's ideally for us. I'm not going to kick something out at two days old just to have another lamb and jug. I'll figure out a way to build another jug somewhere, somehow in this barn to make it feasible so that those things have an opportunity to thrive from. For the next, you know, for their first 48 hours or whatever it is, as opposed to kicking something out too early. I think too many times people will run into scenarios like that and they've either programmed too many ewes to lamb at one time and knowing that they potentially are not going to have enough jugs, that they're kicking them out too soon or too early of those jugs, and it ends up being more detrimental at the end of the day. So in our scenario, I've had it happen a time or two. Typically, our retention rate is never, well, what I would hope for it to be so that we haven't necessarily always ran out of lamb and jugs. But there's been a time or two and we have, and I just find a spot to build another one. You may not have that perfect scenario, but you find a spot like Brian was talking about. You've got two main spots at his place, but there's another spot as well that'll hold another 20. So you just figure out a way to do it. You don't run out. You find a spot to put them.
- [21:52]
D
Welded wire panels aren't very expensive if you got to throw up some more jugs and just make room, because I think that's the most important thing. And so like we. We lay them small groups, obviously, and so we can.
- [22:05]
F
Yeah, they're the cheapest and most cost effective. I think, you know, we can set up a hundred, but we could keep going if. If we needed to be.
- [22:17]
A
They're.
- [22:18]
F
They're not fun when you're bedding them down and when you're watering. I think this year when we had 100 in at one point in time, I mean, it took the person doing it four hours to bed and bed and water at the same time. And then, you know, we water twice, twice a day. So it, It's a lot. But to Chad's point, we raise show sheep, not commercial sheep. So I want those things to have a great start. So I'm going to leave them in a jug longer or make sure they're in a jug to where they're really doing well before they get kicked out.
- [22:52]
E
Like Brian said, we're raising show sheep so you definitely want the best case scenario. Now with that said, when we push the envelope a little bit and there might be a flipper born, those wonderful DDs we all experience from time to time, they might not get a jug. I might kick them out. But. But if they got potential, I'm gonna find a spot to put them.
- [23:20]
A
This is Cody be the same as everybody's talked. So I, I would just say in the back of your mind, if you're building a building or you're adding on to something, you know, you, you know what jug space you got. But if you're building something different, you know, make sure you can heat it, make sure you can set it apart and, and build those extra jugs that you need to with within that facility or within whatever else he got. Got to have the jug room, got to have the space. Again we're raising show sheep so they got to stay in that.
- [23:53]
B
The last question is one. I'm not sure this one got added to the question list last but I thought this one was too good to pass up. Rank the importance of these features in your barn. Good lighting, ventilation layout, bunk space, barn cameras or bathroom for when nature calls during chores. Spoiler alert. This is.
- [24:22]
D
Yes, that's an Enfield question.
- [24:26]
B
So the options are good lighting, ventilation layout, bunk space, barn cameras, bathroom.
- [24:35]
E
When you get brown and I's age, I'd say bathroom.
- [24:40]
B
I didn't think anything would top ventilation for you guys.
- [24:44]
E
Followed by ventilation in the bathroom.
- [24:46]
F
1A and 1B ventilation bathroom.
- [24:52]
B
Well now that we've got that covered, let's kind of move into the last portion. If you were to redesign your barn, what would you change or improve?
- [25:00]
D
I'd make mine about three times as big.
- [25:04]
F
Yeah, we, when we first built we had drive thru. We could completely drive through and it was to be set up for drive through feeding. And as we've, as we've added on and the way our topography is, we could not add enough fill to have the drive thru. I would absolutely have it drive thru so, so where we could feed with TMR inside and it would just simplify our feeding tremendously here.
- [25:35]
E
I would have to agree with that part of it. The big everybody talks about, you know, the perfect barn scenario and like we joked about earlier, I've, I've drew out Several barns. And even then when I've drew those plans out for our own scenario, I have a necessarily thought that we needed to drive through to feed. Now we're on a smaller scale. Not a, not as small as Jake's, but not as big as Cody and Brian's. And so the simplicity of being able to drive through and feed those things, I agree with Brian. I think that would be the one thing I would change.
- [26:14]
D
Now I was just gonna say, I mean I jokingly said make it three times bigger but I think just making it, you're, you're going to find stuff that, that you're going to want to change but making it as big as you want to grow into, you're still probably going to have to add on. And like all these guys said, concrete makes a world of difference. I'd have put concrete in our center portion in our alley and that's probably going to happen rather soon. You know that stuff's expensive on the front end but it's, it's well worth it in the long run.
- [26:49]
A
Yeah, so we're, we're going more towards that TMR side. At my house, like I said earlier, I got a bunch of concrete here from, from past generations and, and we put some concrete bunking set up in and putting a building together to, to allow us to do that here. I think in help. Help is I, I think was probably where that's all striving from. We're very blessed to have two young gentlemen here that are seniors in high school that help us and everybody's busy and trying to figure out a way to do that to the most efficient way possible and still do the best to the stock that you can. Some building layouts aren't just gonna flat allow you to do that, but ours is we moved feed systems so you're not walking 150ft or 300 foot to carry a bucket. You know there's some different things in there to allow you to, to be more efficient in what you're doing. And you come to our house and we've got little, oh probably 2 ton, 3 ton whatever they are bin size with, with an auger going into a building. And we're blessed to have a grinder mixer that we can put feed wherever we want. But we, we don't want to move feed all over. It's being efficient and mindful of your scenario.
- [28:19]
E
With that said this Chad again. So talk about the auger system. You know, we put our two big poly bins out in front of the barn that Was our goal initially was to auger that into inside the barn. And I. And as time went on I thought, that's ridiculous. I'm not going to do that. We can walk out, we can fill the buckets outside. Primarily because I thought as soon as they see you even get near that auger inside, those shoes are going to start yelling. There's nothing more irritating. Next to birds that drives me nuts around our place is whenever you walk in there and they start bawling like I can't handle. I'm like, feed them something, give them something, shut them up. I can't handle it. So I thought, I'm not want that auger system in there. But if you even walk by this little yellow cart that we pull all the buckets around or if you happen to move it for some reason they're yelling at that point too. There's no keeping them quiet. So if I had to do some one thing, you know, the drive through feeding scenario is great, but even for our own sake, especially when we do have really bad weather in the winter, which it doesn't happen as often as you guys up north, but I feel like if we had that auger system inside, it would simplify things for not only myself, but Amy and the boys or even the help that we have from time to time that, you know, comes over from Oklahoma State.
- [29:48]
B
What do you think the common mistakes new sheep breeders make with their barn setups?
- [29:52]
E
This is Chad. I would think most of them downplay the idea of space. I think if they're going to make a mistake on, on designing one, regardless if you've got 15 use or 1500 use, I think the space scenario and how much space you actually utilize so that it's comfortable for the sheep but yourself as well, it's going to cost money to build it. But as we figured out over the years, if I would have done this barn ourselves, if I'd have done this Barn Initially, the 60 by 100 that we started with, with the 20 foot lean to. If I'd have went ahead and done a 60 by 200, I would have saved money in the long run. Rising cost of everything in general, it sucks. But I think a space wise, if you're borrowing money and you're trying to lay that facility out as in the best possible way, I think just bigger is better in this scenario and, and having that extra space.
- [31:02]
C
Yeah.
- [31:03]
D
I mean, as someone who, you know, like I said, we've raised sheep all our life with our family and whatnot, but jumping in and doing it on our own, I, I would agree with that. I mean, it's not fun having to look at that bill for what you're gonna build. But I mean, you're going to fill it up, you're gonna use that space. But also, like, if you're getting, whether you're getting ready to build a new barn or renovate an old barn, like, I don't know a single one of these guys on this call, or I've got about four or five core people that, I mean, Chad will tell you. I call with stupid questions all the time, like, go look at barns. Ask people like Brian and Cody and Chad, like, what works, what doesn't. Listen to this podcast over three times if you have to and figure out, you know, what's going to work for your area. Because if you live in South Texas, you don't need to worry about wintertime, you know, insulation. Your, your problems are going to be way different. And if you live in California, you're probably not going to have to worry about what to do in the wintertime either. And so I think just visiting with people to figure out what you need to pay attention to and not just jumping in and, and thinking that, you know, the solution to every problem because it's going to hit you square between the eyes if you're not careful.
- [32:26]
E
Let me jump back in there real quick. There was one thing, and when I went through that list of stuff Steve sent us, you know, the one thing I did write down and I didn't even mention just now, when we built these barns, like whether it's the office that we put in or the surgery room that we put in, I tell people this all the time. If I had it to do all over again, whether it's this U barn that we have, the office and surgery room, or whether it's a show barn that we have a clipping, what we call our clipping room and wash rack and office area, and that I set all of that inside the barn. For those that are listening to this and have been here before, they'll understand I set all the, that area inside. Like when we built the barn, it's all flush. If I had it to do all over again, I would have moved all of that to the exterior part of the barn and just done an addition to the front of these barns for that area. You have a lot more space inside. You might have an additional lean to cost with that, you know, I guess on, on one side or the other. But I feel like we have wasted some space by putting these little Rooms or, you know, living quarters, whatever the case may be, Whatever your goal is to build, you've taken up space on the inside of your barn when you should have probably went ahead and done it on the outside to give yourself more space inside. Because you'll run out of space inside those pens pretty quick. Man.
- [33:58]
A
I can't say that any, any better. Anybody that knew the derecho that walked through this part of the country that wiped out half our facilities, I guess we talk on it on my seed side here, but we built it all onto the side or off to the side and left that space all there. Yeah, it's an added cost, but you keep all that. That area stays cleaner and it stays out of the part of that facility. Even the show barn we build, it's an addition on the outside of the building. It doesn't add that much, and it truly adds a lot more square footage to all them buildings.
- [34:41]
B
I think one of the biggest mistakes I see people make is they might build a barn, but then they have no flow. Like how do you get the sheep in and out of it? How do they go to pastures or how you do. How do you back up to it or how do you load? And there's so many places I've been that I am like, well, this is nice, but did anyone think about how you're actually going to get into it, how you can maximize your runs outside? And Brian, did you have anything to add?
- [35:07]
F
No, I would, I would agree with all that. It's hard to address all those things when you're, when you're showing lambs, lamb and ewes, breeding, flushing, doing all, you know, the, the show lamb thing is so different compared to the. Just the production side of it. Like when my kids were younger, you know, we pretty much quit show. Like after. After our state fair, you know, my motivation really stopped. But after Kansas City, we were pretty much done. Done because it was time to convert to, you know, the production side. Like we got used to get in here, get ready. You know, these show lamps can get out.
- [35:45]
E
So.
- [35:46]
F
So if somebody wants to show lambs, which that's why most everybody's in the business, is they start with showing lambs, but the production component is, is big. So, you know, the, the show piece of it, the show side of it, like what Chad was talking about and Jake and Cody, like, it doesn't have to be huge, you know, it could be as small as an 8 by 8. Like when we first set our show barn up, that was aside from our, you know, kind of Production facility. We just had a small 8 by 8 foot area that had a drain, heated water. It was all closed in. You know, we worked worked out of that and that was eight by eight. But now we have a huge area where we can do that kind of stuff, but doesn't have to be big. It's just gotta be out of the way and convenient.
- [36:35]
C
Yeah.
- [36:36]
D
And Steve, I think you're spot on with that. Like we've spent this whole time, what, three hours talking about what to do inside the barn. But setting up everything outside of the barn is just as important because I mean, if you don't have everything lined out on the outside, you're, you're going to be up a creek and, and so that's spot on.
- [36:57]
E
That's the one thing I've noticed over the years and I, you know, I've had people from several different states that have pulled into our place and it's seems like a lot of wasted ground space. Like from the standpoint of the turning around and parking trailers or getting in and out of places from a loading standpoint, unloading standpoint. In our scenario, we do have some semis that come in from time to time with us. Whether it's getting show feed delivered or, you know, you feed delivered or even with us shipping out stuff in and out with Schobert's feed supplements. We needed that extra rock space of being able to pull in and out of pretty easy. I did that primarily, yes, I'm giving up some pasture for that. But I'm also look at it from the standpoint how many times I had been in scenarios. Good friend of mine, we used to travel a lot together. CL McGill can attest to this, that we'd pull into places to pick up sheep on a trip and trying to figure out how I'm going to turn around in this small area and get backed up to load anything. So when we built our layout, or we designed this layout, I wanted a lot of space for trailers or semis or whatever the case is. So I think that loading and unloading scenario or access to pastures to, to and from your barn, I think Steve is spot on with that.
- [38:29]
B
All right, the last question. What advice would you give to someone building a barn from scratch? And I'll go first with that one because this is kind of how I've had to do it. I think it's, it's a work in progress. As soon as you think you're done and okay, we're done building, you'll find something that either needs replaced or Maintenance done on or you'll something will change in your operation. Like if you look at how many resets most people run now versus, you know, you didn't need a surgery room 15 years ago. You know, things change all the time. And I'm one of those people, like I like to cross off my list and have everything perfect. And it's been hard for me to realize that, like, okay, we're going to do this in steps. This year we might redo our fence. Next year we might get different gates. Next year we might add on to this side and we've added on to every single side of our barn and then we've kept adding on. So it's a work in progress. So don't get frustrated. And I remember, specifically remember one year, John Crawford came here to flush and he had been at Brian's before and all he did the whole time was tell me how much better Brian's place was than mine. I'm like, I'm a 25 year old single mom. I would hope his place is better than mine. But it's always one of those things, like when you go and look at places like look and see what you can take from other people's places. And that doesn't mean be Snoopy, but see how other people have it set up. Ask questions like a lot of what Brian has I've mimicked over here or like what I've seen at other places. Don't feel like you're behind if you can't get it all at once. It's a work in progress and we've all had to do it in chunks.
- [39:55]
F
This, this is Brian. That's really well said, Steve. And the other thing too, I mean, you know, some people think they have to buy everything. You can get a lot done with Armstrong labor. You don't have to have a tool for every purpose. A lot of it is how much motivation you have yourself to really grind to get things done. Because, you know, I've been in it, we've been, my wife and I have been at it for 35 years and we've accumulated a lot over the years. But we didn't stay start where we were today. You know, it was kind of a lot of sweat equity put into it. So you can get a lot done with, with a little if you're motivated to do it.
- [40:32]
E
Same scenario when Brian's talking about that labor intensive, whatever, however you want to do it. There's ways you can make things function. But also you don't have to buy it all. And and we've been fortunate to reinvest what we've made off of sheep back into the program and still still live off of raising sheep. And that's not always the best scenario for everybody. But you got to work at it. Like it's not going to happen overnight. It's not going to build itself and, and God knows I am. I hate owing money to anybody, much less a bank. There's times you've got to borrow money to, to do stuff that you may not initially want to, but you've got to kind of plan for that. And they're like, you know what? I need this. Let's figure out a way to financially make it work. And if it means more of our own self labor to put things into motion, then so be it. But yeah, I think, I think a lot of it is the fact that you've got to, you've got to work at it.
- [41:42]
D
You've got to plan ahead, asking questions, looking at those other barns, going to places. But also, I mean, sit down, draw it out, think about how stuff is going to flow. Like Chad said, he, you know, drew out all sorts of different barn plans and we did the same thing when we were getting ready to start. But you know, like we, we figured out our budget and what we could make work and that's kind of where we fit it. And then as we move forward, I mean we invested what we needed to, to be able to do it right. And we'll continue to build on and, and just know, I mean it doesn't take the fanciest of facilities as long as they are functional. I think function over, over Being overly fancy is, is probably the most important thing.
- [42:27]
A
I would agree with everybody there. I can remember we had quarter of what we have now and what. And like Chad said and Brian said and Jake said, we've had the ability to, to reinvest them dollars from the show sheep and improve those operations does it doesn't start overnight. Utilize them buildings however you see fit and what, what truly is going to help make things simpler and keep that stock healthier with being back in it and doing some different things with the seed business and even with the grain side, I mean there's different opportunities that, that align that within governmental loans. But there's some things that you can get some low interest dollars on and, and utilize them and, and plan ahead. I'm like Chad, I, I've grown out. I've got my show barn drawn out. Yes, I, I love to build the thing. There's a time and place for that. But that's the thing dad has taught me forever. You always think six steps ahead and trying to figure out what you're going to do next and where you're going to go. And you don't got to build overnight, but always plan with the next goal in mind. So don't make it so single purpose driven that you can't grow with that. And I think that's the way to lead with this and make ventilation the top of your priority.
- [43:56]
E
What Brian can attest to this is I know nobody looks forward to the end of your own children's show career. Though there's times you might, but for the most part you don't. But you think about the added space in some scenarios when we are still if, if and when we're still raising sheep and the boys are done showing. I've got a whole nother space to utilize at that point. And Brian found that out. Even though he's adding on and building and growing the flock. That space that was generally utilized for show lambs was now accessible to the production side of it. And Stevie, you're going to figure that out as well. And Jake at some point and Cody as well. But it's like there's things that you look at that if you. You kind of build things along along the way and as things progress, but you're gonna, you'll find places to make things work and figure out how to make your space function.
- [45:02]
A
So I would go with Chad on that. Like every building we build or redo, you always make the door big enough to get a skid loader in, if that makes sense. And the showbone we built. Yeah, the gate stream will pass the roll up door I put in. But if for some reason that becomes a buck barn one day, I can pull a skid loader in it. If I didn't, I'm gonna have to pitch pins out f that. I ain't doing that later in my life. I'm getting smart enough to know that, hey, we ain't gonna. We ain't gonna do that every day. Always make it. If for some reason everything goes to crap in a handbasket or you decide to do something different in life, you got the ability to utilize those buildings in a different way. The only thing everybody's talked about it is the. I just made a note of it earlier was the lean to off the side of the building. I can remember when we did that. If you build a building, always put a lean to on the side of it. You'll see your used laying in that area, even if you got a 40 foot runoff of it, they're going to be laying in that lean to cooling off. And in the summertime. That was just a note I made. That was a mistake we made with the first building we built. We didn't put that lean to on it that that covered area.
- [46:15]
B
Awesome. Well, thank you for joining us. I hope all of you guys found this really informative. And I know we've got a couple of returners. This is the second one that Chad's done with us and the second one Brian's done. I thought Cody and jake were a really good addition as well, so thank you guys.
- [46:35]
E
Sam.