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The Championdrive Podcast
Episode 3.8 - Trey Miller - Mullets, IVF & Mindset + Show Lamb of the Year + Show-Rite's Colossal
01:07:30
TONS of things going on in the show lamb industry currently - in this episode we're covering: - Product Spotlight: Show-Rite's Colossal - Upcoming Fall Born Sales & Stud Ram Showcases - The easiest "So You Suck at Marketing" Tip of All-Time - Show Lamb of the Year Featured Top Nominees We also took the time to have a great conversation with Trey Miller of TKM Livestock - covering everything from IVF, his new endeavor with the White-Face sheep and perspective on feeding/coaching/parenting young showmen, as well as some of his insight from his travels and industry outlook. A must listen to episode!
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- [00:02]
Trey Miller
Now entering the ring, another episode of the Champion Drive podcast presented by Novel Designs.
- [00:10]
Podcast Host
Well, we are back. It has been a busy fall and there's a ton going on@championdrive.com I'm really excited about this episode of the podcast. We have Trey Miller on this week and although we didn't talk much about his actual winners, he's very humble. But Trey has had a really good run and in the part numerous champions, both trading them and raising them, including raising the fourth overall commercial you at Louisville just a couple weeks ago. So he had a lot to talk about. It might be one of my favorite podcast recordings that I've done. We had a ton to talk about, from his mullet to the emphasis he's been placing on you families, why he got into the whiteface sheep and just a ton of talk on mindset and coaching little kids and outlook on coaching, parenting, putting the miles on and traveling and kind of changes in the industry and more. I think it's a must listen. Before we get into Trey's episode, we've got a ton to talk about. Like I said, it's a really busy time of year at Champion Drive out West. There's a lot going on. Johnson's Open House is this weekend and so is SRVS. SRV's open house is their barn is open Saturday and Sunday of this week and They've got over 100 lambs to preview. They have a private treaty pen sale, an online sale set, and you can check out what they're taking to Santa's Favorites as well. Judy's Western Wear has some Cyber Week sales going on. If you go to their website on ChampionDrive.com or Judy's WesternWares.com you can use code CYBER25. They carry blankets and muzzles and all the products that we're all familiar with from them. You can visit their website on Champion Drive and use that code for some discounts that they have going this week. But Gulka Livestock, their barns are open. They've got an online sale coming up December 14th. And, uh, we're all glad that Donnie's back on the mend after some health issues there in November. Um, Donnie's no stranger to turning out numerous champions. Most recently, they raised the grand at Louisville. So their Fallborn set is selling on December 14th and their barn's open for visitors, so make sure to make a trek that way. Other stuff on Champion Drive, obviously December babies are about to hit the ground or are hitting the ground. So the creep feed conversation always comes up amongst breeders. I feel like that's a popular topic this time of year. Formula of Champions is one that always makes the conversation. They have two different types of creep feeds, including Cherry Crave, which is their pelleted cherry flavored creep. That is the flavoring and the smell of that kind of encourages early consumption on those babies. And then they have a pellet or a texturized creep called Power Takeoff and those have been really popular. I know several of our listeners utilize Formula Champions products, so be sure to check the their ad out on ChampionDrive.com or visit FormulaChampions.com to learn more about their products and their dealer network. Another conversation that comes up quite a bit this time of year that I get calls on is what to get for Christmas right around the corner for different breeders. I get a lot of calls from people wanting to know do you have any good gift ideas? Do you have any suggestions? I'm not sure what to get this person or you know, my son runs a small business, what do I get for them? Or something like that. While we're past our custom ordering deadline for Christmas apparel, gift cards are always really popular this time of year. So we currently have a 10% off on all gift cards at Branded Show Gear. So those can be used for online apparel stores. They can be used to get a custom order of hats or jackets or sweatshirts. You can find out more about that on championdrive.com or on the branded Show Gear website, which is Branded showgear. Com. I'm trying to go pretty fast because like I said, we've got a lot to cover today. But one of the big things going on@championdrive.com right now is the of the Year Contest. This week is the first of our four voting weeks for the of the Year contest and it's the Show Lamb of the Year that includes the top 10 nominees from across the country. And the voting for that closes on Saturday, December 6th. Once again this year, Showride has been a big supporter of the Show M of the Year contest and they're our presenting sponsor again this year and I caught up with their rep Cooper Newcomb to talk about their new product Colossal. Let's hear what he had to say. Foreign.
- [04:15]
I'm here today with Cooper Newcomb from Show Rite Feeds. Show Rite has been a longtime sponsor of the show am of the year on championdrive.com let's go ahead and talk about one of your new products called Colossal. What is it and why did it.
- [04:27]
Cooper Newcomb
Come out.
- [04:29]
So Colossal is a colostrum based product that we added a lot of extra Vitamins and minerals to as well as your cell plexus, which would be a selenium. And this is all just due to try to keep those sheep on feed to help cope with stress and, you know, anything from getting scours on the road to, you know, shrinking or losing weight as you travel, all those things, it'll help, you know, keep them on track when you're at the show. But more importantly, we like to feed a low, low feeding rate of it at home to keep those sheep healthy, keep their immune system up, foot quality and all the way to the breeding shed for, you know, efficiency of sperm cells. There's, there's been some proof there, if you will, in the bull data. This shows that extra selenium and zinc helping with, you know, making those swimmers faster, if you will. So there's a lot of different things and aspects that we utilize this product for. Obviously, whenever we start talking about the show limb of the year, we're looking more at the show and what we're doing at home to get those kind of lambs to that point. And you know, that's the low feeding rate at home. And then as we go to a show, we increase that, you know, up to four to six ounces a day, just depending on your, you know, your body type and your condition and what you're trying to accomplish. Because you can certainly put some extra cover and smoothness and maturity, if you will, on those things in a hurry. Whenever we start talking about that elevated.
- [06:01]
Podcast Host
Feeding rate, when you're feeding it at home, are you drenching it or using it in drench mixes or are you just top dressing it on the feed? How do you suggest the best way to use it at home?
- [06:12]
Cooper Newcomb
So at home from a low feeding rate, just a maintenance to keep our immune system up and keep those things on, feeding your appetite up, I would say you can feed it on their feed. Once they get going and they're healthy and they're on feed, we're talking a half feeding, you know, half an ounce per feeding there twice a day. It's kind of our maintenance feeding rate. Now whenever we start drenching them at home, getting ready for a show, if, you know, we start to that elevated rate to 3, 4, 5 times a day, we're drenching them with at that point, you know, 1 ounce to maybe 50cc's of water or so. Just enough to make it, you know, a liquid form. The one important thing that I would say on Colossal is if you put in a liquid form, definitely keep it refrigerated after you've mixed it. As we've all seen what scoured milk can do, I've seen those guys in the wash racket shows and know they probably, probably use something that scoured on them or that soured on them and got those lambs upset. So you want to make sure you keep that product cool and you won't ever have any issues with that.
- [07:17]
Podcast Host
What about in this scenario, like, we have a sheep that, you know, gets the scours at home, maybe goes off feed, and we want to start kind of doctoring on that one. Are you suggesting drenching it or trying to put it on their feed to encourage consumption as well?
- [07:31]
Cooper Newcomb
I would say drench it and that will encourage consumption as they're gonna, you know, get on that. That'll get their gut rack healthy, get the bugs back going, keep everything in line there. The important part of that is a lot of people think, you know, drenches scours, you know, their belly's upset and they don't want to drench anything. You know, they think, well, they just need to quit all that stuff and maybe doctor them. And. And you know, I would never tell you that Pepto is not the fix because it certainly helps in a lot of different scenarios. Cool the belly off there and settle it. But I think the big thing to know is, is whenever you have an issue like this, you want to increase the amount of colossal that you're actually utilizing because it is good for the gut. It is, you know, it's going to help get that lamb back on track and get your scours back to pebbles and, and do what you want to. The one thing that's important to note there too, is if you've done that, you know, with your drench, you may, you may start over. If it got. You left it out too long, you don't know if the kids had it out. That's about the only time is if we let that colossal get hot and we're utilizing at that point. That's whenever we have an issue. And so we'll have the kids restart if we notice that we've had a couple of them had a, have a problem. But other than that, we continue on and we increase our amount whenever we have one. Getting an upset stomach.
- [08:55]
Podcast Host
So how can our listeners, how can they obtain colossal? How do we buy it? Where do we get it at?
- [09:03]
Cooper Newcomb
You can look on our online store or any of our dealers out there. We have dealers across the country. We have a dealer portal. You can look up our dealers on our website the showrite.com you can find any of our supplements there and Colossal is certainly on there and available to ship to your front doorstep.
- [09:26]
Podcast Host
Like I said, you can learn more about Colossal on the Product showcase page on championdrive.com or it's also featured this week on the homepage of Champion Drive to learn more about Showrite's new product Colossal. And thanks again to them for sponsoring the of the Year. The Show Lamb of the year also on ChampionDrive.com it's a busy time. Fullborne sales are coming up and there's several new rams on the Stud Ram Showcase. The first one is Onion Ring, which is a cocky Rocky by how high? At Fisher Club Williams he's RRFF and they're actually selling half interest of this guy on their December 6th online sale. So make plans to get there and get your eyes on him or to check him out on their upcoming sale. And then Johnston's of Idaho also have a couple sales coming up this week. I believe theirs are on December 6th as well and they've got three buck lambs that they're offering half interest of on these sales. The first one is Jocko. He is a cocky Rocky Juanita, which Juanita was a cutthroat Larry Bird and he's rrff. And then they also have another Buckland that they call Goggins. He's a cocky rocky Peter Pan water boy. He also bleeds rrff. And both of those bucks they're selling half interest of them on their December 6th online sale. If you're a white connoisseur, they have a little buck lamb called Frostbite. He's a Sub Zero by Dory and he comes from their storied white program. Half interest of him is also up for grabs on their December 6th sale. So there's a ton of opportunities coming up. So be sure to visit Champion Drive to check out those bucks that we just talked about. Another buck lamb that just went up this morning on Champion Drive. He's called Eggnog and he's a company man Pepper. He's raised by Estes and owned by Estes and Mavencamp. Be sure to check him out. They call him Eggnog this episode so you suck at marketing from Novel Designs. This one is a really doable one. I know sometimes I kind of get windy and kind of give big picture ideas. This is a really easy one that everyone has no excuse for not knocking out of the park on. We have a feature on Champion Drive that allows you to sort your the directory listings by type. So if I'm going to go look at full borns, I just select sort by Fall born, sort by December Born, sort by Lateborns, and we update it each year. So a couple weeks ago we sent out an email about it. We cleared all of last year's listings of types. So you need to go ahead and submit the link on Champion Drive. If you go to the headliner section, there's a little blurb I put up there about it. But click on that if you have a listing on Champion Drive and then just fill out what you have. It's already filled out. You just have to click which boxes of which you have put your farm name in and submit it and then we'll automatically get that updated on Champion Drive. That feature gets a ton of traffic. I've been tracking the numbers and the views on it. Um, a lot of people utilize that. So it's something that's really simple. You can do it. When you're waiting for Utilam, just go on championdrive.com scroll down to the headliner section and there's a section about the breeders directory and how to update your listing. Click that, send it in or drop us an email and let us know and we'll get it updated for you. Like I said, it's a really easy one this week. Like I talked about, Show Lamb of the Year is presented by Showright. There's top 10 nominees up for voting and some of the featured nominees include Waylon Gamberling's grand at the Iowa State Fair FFA Show. He was bred by Impact Camps and he is a company man by impact 2685, which if you follow the Impact program, that's a uline that has had several champions come out of. Another one of the top nominees is Landon Bewley's granddad, Exarbon. So it's bred by Denno, he's a Jaeger by Double T by Chanel, and that goes back to their Gigi donor. Colin and his crew have always had a good run at Exarb. And this is another one to add to their growing list of winners. Madden Wises grand at Houston is another one of the featured top nominees. He's a 2.0 by Unicorn and he's bred by Alan Newcomb. Show lambs. Sadie Allen's grand at Tulsa. This one was bred by Rural Sheep Company. It was shown six times, grand five times, in reserve once and ended its career at Tulsa. This one, like I said, was bred by Rule Sheep company and sired by Fight Night. Impact Camps has another one up for the Show Lamb of the Year. This one is Gabby Routes grand at the Indiana State Fair. Like I said, bred by Impact Hamps. He's a company man. Impact 2717 and fun fact, they've got that mom of that one bred back the Same way for 2026. Sadie Allen has another one of hers up for Show Lamb of the Year, the Grand at Louisville. This was a bugulka lamb which is a unicorn on the 0480 Ignite donor. And the mom of this one is actually also up for the Female of the Year voting, which takes place later in December as well. And last but not least, Crew Freelands Bronco. He's a ceasefire by Bonnie. He's the grand at American Royal and also the grand at the Cornhusker Showdown. He's bred by WL Livestock out of Nebraska. So you can visit ChampionDrive.com to learn more about these top nominees as well as and see the full list. You can also see the full list of the other top nominees and the other categories and check out when the voting for all of those is coming up. And it's a busy time with Fallborn sales info, so there's a lot going on. If you miss a day at championdrive.com, you miss a lot. So be sure to visit to make it part of your daily routine. Now that we've got all that out of the way, let's get to the main guts of this. I'm really excited to get into the segment with Trey Miller of TKM Livestock out of Ohio.
- [14:38]
Hey guys, I'm here today with Trey Miller of TKM and I'm excited to have him on. And obviously some of us know him from trading sheep, from raising sheep, and he's kind of taken on some new roles here lately. He's been the token mullet guy at the shows this fall. If you haven't checked that out. And I actually am seeing it live, the mullet has left, right?
- [15:00]
Trey Miller
It has, it is gone. It is gone.
- [15:03]
Podcast Host
I want to jump right into it because I know that was at the end of my questions list. But let's talk about the mullet. I mean, this is, this has been the biggest thing I've wanted to talk about. So how did it start?
- [15:15]
Trey Miller
I don't know. I had the same haircut since probably like 5th grade after I graduated from the bowl cut and had this little high and tight type of fade going on. And I was like, well, every other kid or adult that I see that goes in and out of the barbershop Also has this, like, mullet curly thing going on. And I'm like, all right, let's try it.
- [15:38]
Cooper Newcomb
So.
- [15:39]
Trey Miller
So I. I came home from the barbershop, and I was getting something out of the cupboard, and my wife was like, what is on your head? And I was like, I'm growing a mullet. And then she's like, are you cheating on me?
- [15:52]
I was like, no, I have again. I've had the same haircut forever, and I just wanted to try something new, so. Ran its course. I. It got cold here for a little bit. I was wearing a sock hat, and I took it off, and I looked like Ellen DeGeneres with, like, this big. Big, like, spiky thing in the back. And I was like, I can't do this anymore.
- [16:13]
Podcast Host
Yeah. I was surprised at Louisville when he told me it was going to go, but, I mean, that sounds like a good reason.
- [16:17]
Trey Miller
So, yeah, it had a. I scheduled that appointment for Tuesday after Louisville, and I stuck to it. And I think my co workers were very happy. My wife was happy. But Berkeley, my daughter, is very sad that it's gone. So we'll probably.
- [16:31]
Podcast Host
When did the mullet start?
- [16:34]
Trey Miller
February 1st was when the grow date started. So.
- [16:38]
Podcast Host
Nice. Yeah. Good run.
- [16:40]
Cooper Newcomb
Yeah.
- [16:41]
Trey Miller
A little bit of grow and shine, you know, and some conditioner. And we kept that thing.
- [16:45]
Podcast Host
Do you have to work that like we work sheep legs?
- [16:47]
Trey Miller
You do. You got blowed out every now and then.
- [16:51]
Podcast Host
Look for that on your next Weaver seminar.
- [16:52]
Trey Miller
Right, Exactly. Exactly.
- [16:56]
Podcast Host
So now with all the mullet talk behind us, let's get right into, like, how did you get started in the sheep industry? Or what's your background?
- [17:03]
Trey Miller
Yeah. So not many people know this, but I am one of seven. I am number six, and six of seven in the train. We all showed. We all showed livestock kind of at the. My older siblings showed hogs at the state fair and county fair. And then my older. One of my older sisters got paired up with Denny Miller. He had kind of approached us to see if we wanted to try something different. Him and Mark Banbury were pretty close and kind of ran. Ran that Hubbard feeds, I think, together a little bit. And so we started getting into sheep, then showed at the county fair. And that was really it as far as, like, my exposure to it. We started buying sheep 2004. I think it was my brother's, maybe his last year. In 4H, we bought a sheep from LS Club Lambs, which is a throwback to Lee and Sarah Miller at that point. That's obviously since dispersed. And I think that Became Bailey amset's flock. And then obviously Brock and Leah and Ryan and Kathy run the amstet show lambs crew. But yeah, Brock kind of took me under his wing after that. I think he kind of saw that I had a little bit of a spark of interest in it, and I had no idea what I was doing at all. My Last year in 4H, I worked all summer the year prior so I could buy a lamb to show at the state fair. I spent that bid off was during easter. I spent $800 on the reserve natty at Columbus. And I told my dad how much I spent, and he told me to call Leah and say that we couldn't take the lamb because that was too much money. Fast forward, that was a really good summer. I kind of had always followed along. That was. I would have been in the same age bracket as, like, Dylan Newsome, Audrey Neal, which would be Audrey Nichols, now Lindsay Howe, which would be Lindsay Watson. So, like, that whole crew of. Of competition. My sister started to show. So we kind of. I kind of supported her throughout with my own money. And then she had. I think her like, top thing was she was fifth overall at Columbus one year with the land that we bought from Wheaton's. Yeah, that's how we kind of got into it. She aged out. And then Carrie Lawrence's family reached out to me if I could help their daughter Erin. And then she had a really good run at Columbus. The Johnson family had reached out as well. So we kind of helped them both together. We put. Put together a good little run through state fair, and then that's kind of grown to what it is now.
- [19:37]
Podcast Host
When did you start raising your own?
- [19:40]
Trey Miller
I would say like this. So this will be our sixth lamb crop, I think. You know, we had bought a couple ewes and my sister had showed. At that point, I was just buying pieces of things that hit me or whatever and then had bought a buck from somebody and kind of was running them that way. Like, I was so naive to what. How big this industry was and how involved it was and so started going to shows. You know, like the first time you show at Louisville, you're just. I'm hoping that we have sheep to make the cut and just trying to be a sponge to observe everything that was going on and trying to be better. And we're still not there. You know, we're still trying to make things better. Like, we turned over our whole flock this year, except for a couple of our mainstay donors, just because I felt like we weren't good enough, you know, and we. And we kept some. Kept some very good replacements. We kept some really good donors that had done a good job for us, and we relocated everywhere else because I wasn't focusing on you families as much as important, that is. And I wish I could go back in time, I know that's a later question. And take all the money I've spent buying pieces and parts of ulams that I liked without having the history on them, reinvest that money into. Into today. But yeah, so this will be our maybe seventh crop. We just started. We AI'd the first year, and then we've slowly kind of trickled into the ET deal and now the ET and IVF stuff. So about 120 ewes, about 50 blacks. My goal is to get to 10 white donors, and I think we have eight right now. So we're getting there. And then the rest of those are. The rest of those are recips.
- [21:20]
Podcast Host
Let's go right into the you family deal. That's something that's really interesting to me, and that's something that. It's interesting you say that because as soon as you talk about. I wish I would have paid more attention to you families. That's something I've done over the last few years, and it is a game changer. If you never really, like, explored the you families, what does that mean to you or like, what do you kind of prioritize on? And I think we can probably talk back and forth about what each of us have done probably in this because it'll be interesting if it's the same or different.
- [21:45]
Trey Miller
Yeah, I think, you know, as. As my goal, I initially had wanted to, you know, grow to 100 US and then 200 views and those kind of things. And then, you know, realizing the capital outlay, my position of where I am on the map in Amanda, Ohio, I'm not exactly along the trail of travel, I guess, if you will. So I needed to be real strategic on the numbers. I run kind of developing that into like a More of an ET program. And then with that, the U power behind those females that we were going to put under the knife. So females that one have a successful U line, you know, they're three and four generations back of females that were successful themselves or, you know, raising successful stock throughout their whole lineage. They've made bucks, you know, they've made successful weathers. That's probably what I needed to focus on more. And that's what I finally am now. And that's why we turned over a Bunch of what we were doing before. And I think the other thing to to consider is how does that uline flush if you are going to push towards an ET program because it's not worth the money and the time and the effort. If you're going to get you know, two to five out of that U or that U family if you can push that average to you know, the sweet spot maybe of 7 to 11 in my experience, I mean I think that's more ideal for me at least. I feel like you've got, you know, talk to different repro groups and stuff. There's used that hit home runs every now and then but I need like solid doubles every time that we do it. Otherwise I can't handle the roller coaster. And that's where we've started IVF some of those because some of those use from those good ulines are a little bit roller coastery. Maybe if they were showus and just the environment that they were in, it's kind of caused that. So we've started to IVF a little bit more had good experiences, knock on wood. So we'll see how that continues to roll. So and I know you're, you're very big on u families too because I've listened to some of your every episode that you guys have done and you're very big on on that same thing.
- [23:53]
Podcast Host
So you hear everyone talk about like you families, you hear Brian Johnson talk about you families or Mike Hyman talk about you families. And I remember, I distinctly remember one year I sat down and I'm like my patio table and like just got out a spreadsheet and a notebook and started tracing back like hey, my best five or six lambs each year all of a sudden they were all going back to the same grandma or they were all going back to something. And so we've really focused on that. And I feel like once you focus on you families, I used to get really stressed out by what am I going to breed to what am I going to do? And when you know, you have a good you family and they've kind of hit on several different bucks, you can kind of give yourself a little bit of confidence. Like the good ewes typically carry the buck. So you can maybe make a gamble on a buck lamb or you know, boy, I know this worked well before on some others. I can take that logic and use it here. So that's been something that's been really transformative for me. I think your comment on the roller coaster ones, so you're taking the ones that don't flush as good and IVF ing them, or you're taking the ones that do knock it out of the park on flushing an IVF in them.
- [24:52]
Trey Miller
So the ones that have. The ones that have continually done a good job in conventional flushing, we're just letting them stay in that space.
- [25:01]
I'll kind of visit on my experiment here in a little bit. But the use that have consistently given good numbers, but Maybe they go 0 for 13 and they're all unfurts, or 1 for 13 and they're all unferts or, you know, half of them are degens, et cetera. Like, we've got one U that we spent a fortune on. The first time we flushed her, she went 0 for 4. The next time we flushed her, she went 6 for 16. The next time we flushed herS, she went 0 for 13. And I was like, there's gotta be another way that we can do this. We IVF her and a couple others that were kind of in that same boat of just. They're consistently giving good numbers, but I'm always using fresh, chilled semen. I didn't want to wait another year to turn around. And then, okay, maybe they do better with frozen because they're getting bred twice, you know, so we just went to IVFing them.
- [25:53]
Now we've done both. We've done Hoosier embryo and rsg. But the. The mainstay of both of those has got to be Santiago, in my opinion, because he's created the. The medium where this can be successful. We put in. We put in 12 for the one high dollar you the first time, and then I think we put in eight the second time. So, like, it's. It's given us an opportunity to get those pieces of genetics from those good ulines that, you know, if they were showus or whatever else, like, some of that, I feel like, has an effect on their longevity in the donor pin or how those first couple flushes go.
- [26:32]
Just because of how hard we are on those, on those ewes, but it's definitely helped. And then we had a couple use that we had. They had conventionally flushed well, but they were like five to eighters is what they'd kind of been floating at. And I was like, I wonder if we IVF these just to see what they do again and see how it goes. The one you only wanted for overs responded, but we still got five and we put in five. The next one she gave 11 and we put in nine. I mean, there's benefits to it from a cost standpoint I feel like it's a break even on the cost. You know, the difference is, you know, the IVFs, you're only using 7mls of fallotropin. You can use one straw semen for potentially up to six use, you know, so, I mean, you're getting a stretch like if you got a. If you're one of the lucky individuals that still has Return Johnny semen or something, you know, you can use that in different ways, which is. Which is nice. And I think that's going to be a good something that's probably more mainstay in the industry.
- [27:32]
Podcast Host
The IVF deal you. Did you just start doing that or have you lammed any of those out yet or are they still.
- [27:37]
Trey Miller
We. We haven't lamed any of those out yet, so they're still cooking. We ultrasounded. The ultrasound went well. The ultrasound of Knock on wood, better than our conventional flush on that same. That same week. So we'll see how many actually come to fruition out of that whole process. But I was actually. So I had. I had posted a picture on Snapchat of that strawberry you, Matt. And Matt Kennedy messaged me back. He was like, hey, do you want to trade an IVF on. Well, they call it cheddar or whatever the. The U that 1 routes had showed at Louisville. And I was like, I'd be interested. And I was like, tell me a little bit more about this IVF deal. And he walked me through the process. I was like, oh, I didn't even realize that had, like, became a regular thing. He's like, oh, yeah, we've got like, 80 embryos banked up on her. I'm like, holy crap. So. So then we started kind of thinking about that which ones would play in that space. And I literally called and scheduled three dates, like, right away with, you know, RSG and Hoosier Embryo, just to compare apples to apples, you know, and yeah, so we'll see how many actually come to fruition. I know, like Timmy Hubbard and Wheaton's. They've IVF a bunch, Titus, I think. And then obviously Warren, Jazz and Harold have. Have done a bunch as well. So, yeah, I'm anxious. I think everybody's starting to kind of dabble in it, you know, but it'll be. I'll be curious to see you.
- [28:53]
Podcast Host
Yeah. And like, at bluegrass babes, like, you sold an IVF or right to IVF on some of your whites, I believe. And I feel like there was a lot more of those opportunities popping up. So I think it's becoming More and more popular. So when are you doing your IVFs? Are you doing it in conjunction with when your AIs and your flesh conventional flushes are or are you going to try and do some out of season type stuff too? Or what are you kind of, what's your vision there?
- [29:18]
Trey Miller
Yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to continue to do both. The dates I have right now are going to hopefully piggyback up with my conventional flushes so we can kind of lam those together. I am doing a freeze all unlike Nep's showstring and then Fowler's champion dorset advantage from Louisville. We're gonna, we're gonna do those, freeze those and hopefully kind of have those as a safety net for if we do have a bad flush. Like this year we flushed in July and I have one pregnant recip with two embryos hopefully in her coming. Um, so just to have a kind of a security blanket there or put those in, you know, to kind of COVID us from that standpoint. But yeah, my goal would be to continue to, you know, like in hogs, you know, they get what is 2.3 parodies a year. And on the sheep side, I feel like with this IVF deal we can, you know, replicate that so much faster because they don't need a six week downtime. You can do them more aggressively once a month if, if you want to and bank up those embryos. So you could put, you know, for one U, you could have three different sire groups out of the same U in at one time. Which I think is, which is cool. So without it being so invasive on the U, you know what I mean? It's an la, you know, it's an AI procedure is what it looks like versus slicing and dicing them.
- [30:39]
Podcast Host
Yeah, I think the generation interval is the most intriguing part to me. Like I, you know, I have a lot of shows that get leased out and you get them back and they just sit here from November until May. If you put them in a fall flush or until July, well, they're a year and a half old. Well, you can get those things back. And like you said, like there's such a changeover from being a show you to being a regular out on, you know, fend for yourself in a pen with 30 other ones. I like the generation interval of it. I think it's interesting and I'm excited to see kind of where it takes you and how it turns out. You did mention about you're wanting to get to 10 white donors where has the itch for that kind of came from or the desire for that and kind of. What's your vision on that?
- [31:25]
Trey Miller
Yeah. So.
- [31:27]
You know, for those listening parents, you've, you know, once you have a daughter, you're kind of wrapped around a little finger and you kind of listen to whatever, you know, whatever they want to do. I don't know. My proudest moment as a dad was watching my daughter show for the first time because it was finally like a full circle moment, you know, which. Which you can relate from. From your kids as well. And she could drag, you know. So her first year, she showed a novice. She had a sheep that we raised. I literally had that sheep in our $500 load and go pin at our open house. Nobody took it. So I was like, all right, we'll feed it. She never got beat all summer. She could care less about that ewe because she only cares about the white ewe that she showed that summer, which would be tricky. Ricky's mom, the return Johnny, you from Belfons. And so she loves them.
- [32:18]
Cooper Newcomb
And then.
- [32:19]
Trey Miller
So we show again this year, same thing, you know, our black use. Okay. The white U, you know, goes. Goes undefeated in the white division. She absolutely loves her, like, completely obsessed. And so I'm like, kind of seeing of what the, you know, what the market is doing and what some of these guys are doing with the whites and how good they've gotten them. And I'm like, if she loves them this much and I want her to stay in love with them this much, you know, I need to get. I need to jump in head first. And, man, it was a lot of money to do, but hopefully with what we have on the ground right now, I'm excited. But yeah, my. My daughter is kind of the driving factor on that. So Cooper will be. Cooper show anything. My. My son, he. We went into PBS the other day to get some vaccines, some CDNT and stuff, and he wanted to buy a pig whip, so. So, I mean, he'll show whatever, probably. But yeah, that's funny how different.
- [33:13]
Podcast Host
Different kids are, you know, like with Braden, he didn't really care. We used. We had some whites then. And now Corbin, my middle one, she's not interested in the blacks because those are what Braden has. She needs something different. And as soon as I got her a white one this year, same deal, she loved it. She was obsessed with it, not interested in the others. And then Riker, my little guy, were sitting around in the living room a couple weeks ago. I asked Corbin, I'm like, what do you want to show Next year. She's like, well, I want one just like Peaches, which was one of hers this year, that kind of a clown colored one. And I said, well, Riker, you're probably getting old enough. Do you want to show next year? And he said, yeah, well, what kind do you want? And he's like, well, what are the good ones? So I'm like, you sound expensive.
- [33:51]
Trey Miller
I like this guy.
- [33:52]
Podcast Host
But Corbin, he just wants the whites. So kind of the same deal. While we're on the topic of kids, let's talk a little bit about the differences in helping a kid that, you know, I can. Coaching showmanship or, you know, giving advice to sheep that you sell or trade on or raise, you know, to other families, versus coaching your own kids. Let's talk a little bit about that. I feel like we're in the same boat.
- [34:15]
Trey Miller
Yeah, no, it's. Every day is a new challenge. Ohio's Novice division is like cutthroat as it gets, you know, and maybe everybody feels that way, but, like, we had, you know, say so. One of the classes in the white faces this year at. At Louisville, Class two. Three of those top five all duked it out all summer in the novice division in ohio. Okay. The fifth overall u @ Louisville was in the novice division in Ohio. Like, that's how intense it is. But God bless my wife because she can get hard on my daughter. You know, you got to love your kids first, and they got to know that they're loved to be able to coach them hard. And that's a lot of things that they talk about in, like, sports and, you know, and whatnot. And we've kind of embodied that because my wife is super competitive and a very good athlete. But finding that balance in the barn within your family dynamic, I think has been the biggest challenge. Like, I can feed them, I can find them, I can fit them. When it comes to doing legs, Berkeley wants to do that with mom. And when it comes to doing showmanship, Berkeley wants to do that with mom because dad can be. I could say the same thing that my wife says, but it's perceived a little bit, you know, too aggressive or something. So we've kind of split that.
- [35:33]
Cooper Newcomb
Up.
- [35:33]
Trey Miller
Now. I spend a lot of time in the barn getting them kid broke because they have to be able to walk into a set, you know, like a show steer or whatever or a show heifer, stand there and handle hard with the kid just holding their head up. And I think that's one thing that people probably don't catch on to. Like, if A bigger kid was driving one of the chubbier ones in the novice division, it would get along better, but they have to be shallow. They have to naturally walk with their head up and be waspy looking, just standing in a pin with a holder on or walking around with a holder on, because, you know, you don't have a bigger kid that can crank their head up and. And, you know, walk them by hand. They just have to kind of parade around and show themselves off and. And that's been. Those ones are hard to find, obviously, and in the novice division price range, if you will.
- [36:26]
You know, and compare that to, you know, older kids. Older kids, you can get harder on them. You can expect more out of them remembering, you know, the coaching you had one night until the next. You know, if you're seeing these families every week or every two weeks, remembering those things. But, you know, sometimes early in the season, I mean, with your little novice kids, you got to kind of reinvent the wheel when you're back out there every night, because they just, you know, they were at the pool all day, or they had soccer practice or dance or whatever, and then you're going out and doing your barn chores, and it's like, all right, deep breath, parents. We got.
- [37:00]
Podcast Host
This.
- [37:02]
I always enjoy when I hear, like, other people have to go through the same thing, because there's times, like, I remember someone told me at Louisville, like, Corbin did well and showmanship or whatever at Louisville, and they're like, not bad for a kid that you almost sent to the orphanage after the first show this year. Like, I was so frustrated and I had to really change my mindset. And, like, she's not my competitive kid. You know, my boys are really, like, kind of ready to get after it. And Corbin's more shy. She doesn't like people looking at her in the ring because she's more of a quiet person. And she, you know, like, she's not super competitive. And not that she's, like, still soft, but it's just she has a different personality. And like, when you were like, sometimes you have to reinvent the wheel every night. Like, I'd be like, we've worked on this for 10 straight days, and all of a sudden, day 11, it clicks. You're like, oh, okay, we are making progress. And I think it's easy to lose sight of all the things they can't do. But if you look at where they start at the beginning, especially, like, when you talk about Ohio being so tough in the novice deal, if you look at where those kids Start at the beginning of the year and where they end. That's. And really see it. And yeah, like you said, like, you, you can coach on them hard, but you've got love on them hard too.
- [38:08]
Trey Miller
So. Yeah, yeah. And that's what, like you listen to some coaches and stuff, some different podcasts that I listen to. Like, you never talk about the game after the game on the drive home. And that's exactly how we are. Like, she steps out of the ring, we give her a big hug regardless of what happened. So proud of you for, you know, doing what you did today and that kind of stuff. And then they'll go play with their friends again in their, you know, and they're. Their horse trailer that's got living quarters in it or something, you know, like, they're there for the fun. And I want to keep it that way for as long as I can because, you know, when we turn nine, it's going to have to, we're going to have to, you know, raise the bar just, just, just a little bit. So. And I mean, you know, the first year I just wanted her to. You want your kid to get out there, the second year you can, or even halfway through the first year, like, okay, like our goal this year was for her to set front legs, always keep its head up. And like, you kind of forget that they're little children, you know, so they got to be able to like, kind of hold the holder up with one hand and like pull the legs forward to get them set. Right? Because she's not strong enough to just like lift one and plop its front feet where they need to go, you know, so just small things like that, next year's back legs and getting them to actually brace. So we'll see where.
- [39:24]
Podcast Host
We. I think that that's the way I do it too is, you know, like just little steps at a time. Like you can't. Some people, I feel like they want to figure out how to do everything. It's like, all right, one thing at a time. Let's perfect that. And, and I think it's changed, like, how I probably help some of my customers too. Once you've coached a little kid, it kind of changes how you coach other people's kids too, because it's like, okay, I've had to do this here and I see the day to day struggles. Instead of just showing up and checking on their sheep every couple weeks and then being like, what do you mean you can't get it drove? Like, I think it's, it's, it's made me better too. Like, you know, after learning how to deal, especially with different kids and different personalities, I think it's having to coach a little kid has made me better in other areas.
- [40:05]
Trey Miller
Too. 100%. Couldn't agree more. Could not agree more.
- [40:09]
Podcast Host
Yes. Let's move into some bucks. I know you've had part of several different bucks. How do you decide which ones to buy in on? Like, for example, like, you own part of blindside. He just recently sold up bluegrass babes. How do you kind of decide, you know, are you just going to buy semen on a buck? Are you going to try and buy ownership or. Let's kind of talk about some of.
- [40:27]
Trey Miller
Those. Yeah.
- [40:30]
Blindside was a unique opportunity from an economics and value standpoint. He was a good buy and there was already some kind of buzz around that sheep. Just from.
- [40:42]
You know, Snapchat's a good marketing tool, right. And just from some Snapchats that I've gotten some just like talking to other people that have been through and seen him, he was priced fair. And so I kind of dove in and bought him. And then like the next two weeks or so, as that kind of transpired, then we brought in, you know, babies and berries on that deal as well, and then made sure that Brad had kept interest in him as well. Just because I thought Brad has been. Is like an OG in the sheep deal, you know, like, if he's gonna keep his name attached to a buck, then, you know, it's, you know, it's good. And I felt like that was one where, like, if you don't keep interest in this thing, I don't think he's going to get the same lift off the ground with some of his followers that have been buck buyers from him for a long time now. There's been other bucks that have came about that we've, we've tried on or wanted to buy in on, you know, that have come across the block or sold online, etc. But just economically speaking, it's got to make sense, you know, like, I don't have a $500,000, you know, semen buying population running behind me. You know, we do okay on our AI days and whatnot, just from a number standpoint. But it's got to make sense at the end of the day because, you know, whoever's housing the buck is going to get, you know, 60% of that cut. So it takes a long time to cash flow a buck that's, you know, 50, 60, 70, 80, $100,000. If you don't have the right party attached to the other end that ships, you know, and we were forcing on blindside situation that Beatty, you know, ships some of the best semen in the country. That helped that value stream obviously tremendously. So, you know, now we've got kind of dabbling in the white space with. With tricky Ricky a little bit and quickly learned that the white game is more of a frozen semen game than anything. So that again, takes a little bit of a while to. To chip away at just because people are buying two to five units at a time. Yeah, it's interesting, but outside of that, I mean there's a bunch of bucks I would love to own a part of when they sold again, it didn't economically make sense. Some with you like buy semen on them, buy half a jump, full jump frozen and use them that.
- [42:56]
Podcast Host
Way. So let's talk. We talked a little bit about this earlier, but what's been your biggest challenge in raising.
- [43:01]
Trey Miller
Sheep? I would say there's a couple. Obviously your location and your, you know, and kind of your established customer base are a big piece of what you, what you can accomplish. I still go back to if I could have the money back that I spent on ulams or used that did not have a U line behind them that was, that produced well or was strong enough to carry the load. Wish I had all that money back to be able to do it again. And that. And that's been my biggest challenge. You know, as a breeder, you've got, you know, I've got the perception that, you know, I'm a trade sheep and I raise sheep. Trying to get the sheep that I raise into the right hands to other traders, I think is the biggest challenge. Some of them aren't interested in it at all, which I, which is perfectly fine. I get it. But some of them, you know, have taken a leap of faith the last two years and it's worked out well, you know, so hopefully they'll continue to be back and hopefully some that we haven't gotten sheep to will stop and buy just because, you know, your home is 100% of that sheep's potential success. So we've, I feel like we're raising good ones. You know, he had the fourth overall U@ Louisville, had a couple other, you know, wins the last two years of ones that had, you know, TKM tags in their ear. If you got a good one and ends up in a county fair home and a county fair effort, then it's not going to get the lift that it needs to elevate to, you know, a state fair, national level. We're chipping away at that. We're chipping away at that slowly. It's just, it's a.
- [44:27]
Podcast Host
Process. I think that's always a challenge we all face is, you know, when one turns out real nice and it's in a home, you're like, oh, if that one could have got, you know, a late bloomer type deal and it ends up where it's not in a great home. It's frustrating. And what would be your tips to someone who's just getting started in raising.
- [44:43]
Trey Miller
Sheep? Yeah, and I'm going to piggyback off of something you just said and then answer that question. And the same thing goes like raising sheep and then on my end buying them from other breeders and ones that I wish I could retrade into different homes the same way. Like I knew that one had a shot, I probably sold them too soon and I didn't get them in the right home. You know, I wish I could redo a lot of those experiences as well.
- [45:10]
Tip. To someone just getting started, I go, I resort back to something that, you know, Brad Dale had said in one of his episodes of like the capital outlay up front and doing it within your means. I think that's, I think that's huge. And something my boss said, don't borrow money to get into sheep, you know, but again you can do all those things but get with someone you trust, someone that you can, you know, ask questions to someone that is going to be a sounding board and not just take your money up front. If you bought, you know, a group of mature use or something from them or a group of donors because you wanted to get into that, find someone that's going to actually answer your questions, talk through strategy, tell you what's worked, do your homework of what they've done in the past. Again the same thing like the power of the uline is where it's at because sometimes we make buck decisions that maybe didn't work, but there's still a couple that are, that are in there that'll work. And sometimes the weathers might not have been very good, but the females were very good still because of how good the staying pattern power is of that female. So that's, that's my suggestion. And the other thing is like, you know, that the industry as a whole is getting better. You know, at least in my experience the last 10 years. I think more people are working together compared to, I feel like there was very definite divides and camps before I would Say, be Switzerland and be a mutual party to everybody. And because I think that's going to afford you more opportunities when you need to, you know, get semen in a crunch or sell the sheep that you're raising to these other parties. I think that's. I think that's the best way to do.
- [46:53]
Podcast Host
It. We were kind of joking before we started recording this about some of your travels. A week we had had a snowstorm here. And you mentioned how one time when you were here, like, it was pretty blizzardy. I think I. If I remember right, when you were here, I think the storm literally started after you walked in the barn. And we opened up the door and we're like, holy shit, what happened? Wasn't that.
- [47:13]
Trey Miller
You? Yep, that was me. I was like, where's the road to get out of.
- [47:18]
Podcast Host
Here? And for those of you who have never been to my place, I live on a main road. It's not like I'm out in the middle of nowhere. Literally, like four miles on a main paved road, big driveway, like, pretty easy to get around. And he's like, so where do I.
- [47:34]
Trey Miller
Go? I think 8 inches of snow fell, I think, in the hour and.
- [47:38]
Podcast Host
A half that I was like, I don't have that many sheep, so we probably talk more than we look at sheep. But, yeah, let's talk about some of, like, when you are on the road, I know you're someone who puts a lot of miles on. What are key things that you think, you know, maybe make for a good environment? I know a lot of conversations that we have around here are, oh, well, we should, you know, put it. Make sure our lights are, you know, all working and in good shape. Or like, our creep pens are set up. We put a lot of mindfulness into that. What are some different things in your travels that you've seen that make for a good environment to look at.
- [48:12]
Trey Miller
Babies? Yeah, no, 100%. All the above that you just mentioned. I think lighting is a huge key. I think from my standpoint, when I step in, and if, like, air quality is an issue, that makes me sometimes second guess, like, okay, what's the longevity of this one going to be? Like, is it going to be able to handle the exercise and everything that we got to do to these things? Now, from a lung capacity standpoint, just the ease and convenience of, you know, if. And I understand things happen, you know, in life and whatnot, but, like, showing up and they've already got, like, stuff pinned up. I think that's awesome. You can, you know, bust through them and Kind of keep moving on down the road. And just the flow of being able to go from pin to pin to pin is. Is very nice versus, you know, a bunch of different barns. I mean, hey, that happens because sometimes when you're there, it might be your only stop. So you're looking at November's all the way through, stuff that's still in the jugs, which I love that because some of the best sheep that I've ever bought I bought in the jugs when they were like wet. And sometimes it just happens that way. But not very many people sell them that way anymore. From a presentation standpoint, their health is good. They're not riddled with coccidiosis. They're not crapping all over everybody else in there. I think all those things help you bid a couple more times or go further into the sale to buy maybe more of them when you know that they're. They're healthy, you know, and everything is healthy. The ewes look good. They're freshly bedded down on stocks or straw or whatever it may be. I think all those things play into how much life you can get out of that. That animal that you're.
- [49:46]
Podcast Host
Buying. Would you say that the best places you go are the new barns or is it sometimes renovated barns or just well taken care of barns versus because not everyone can build a new.
- [49:55]
Trey Miller
Barn. Yeah, 100% I can't build a new barn either, and I'm working on it. But no, I think there are facilities of every kind that are. I think it's all about how you make use of your space, you know, like, one of the most functional facilities I've ever been to is Mike Stitzline, because it is built for one person to manage it. So, like, everything flows together. You start in one pin and you can work through his whole place, you know, just catching up a couple sheep, every pin and all that kind of stuff, because he's used to doing it by himself, you know. And then there's the other side where you go to, you know, very big new facilities that are the same way. It's very easy to flow through. I think it just. How you use your space, you know, and keep that population density to make sense per pin on how you can move through it. I think it's. I think it's perfect. I don't. That's one thing. Like, you know, the big new barns and stuff are nice, but they're also not economical for everybody. So I think you got to make use of what you've got as long as your Stock's healthy, then it's not. I don't think it.
- [50:56]
Podcast Host
Matters. I agree. And I think a lot of the people that listen from kind of the feedback I've gotten is, you know, we do like a barn renovations podcast or, you know, some people are like, I appreciated that we didn't talk just about the new barns because I can't build. You know, we all want to build the new barn, but yeah. So I was interested how you're going to answer that because I know you've put on a ton of miles. Also, while we're on the topic of barns and whatnot, from a trading standpoint, when we're talking about families with show lambs, what do you think are things that you see in a good home in terms of maybe barn layout or just. Just general things you look for in like the families that you help? What are kind of the non negotiables or, or the things that you find to be.
- [51:34]
Trey Miller
Advantages? I would say obviously a way to individual feed. Whether you've got a loafing pin and then just like one of those six or 12 head feeders, I think that's fine. But I do think the key is letting those sheep to be able to go into a space after they've eaten to move around. You know, that's gonna help them digest their food and everything else. But, you know, they're flock animals. I think that just helps that they're with other animals moving around, whether that be an outside inside type situation or something that they've just got a big enough pin. Air quality, air quality, air quality, air quality. I cannot preach it enough because if you got a drafty barn or you're not, you know, shucking pins and flipping your bedding often enough where it gets really dusty and I come in to look and like five of your seven or have barn cough and whatnot, just because you haven't taken care of pins well enough, I think that's super frustrating. And I think from a space standpoint, you've got to be realistic of like we have an area to do legs, you've got an area to exercise. Whether you've got a track or a treadmill, it doesn't matter to me as long as you have the ability to exercise. And all of those are laid out accordingly from a space standpoint where they're not in the sun and the stock's not in the sun. You know, if you're, if you're one that does legs in the morning or night or whatever, I mean, it's still 90 degrees at 9 o' clock in Ohio, you know, so. And the humidity's out the wazoo, like we're in a swamp. So I think those are. Those are big things. You know, if you've got an ability to insulate the barn or to kind of take the heat off a little bit, I think that's, you know, I think that definitely helps, you know, but the small, the small details are what separates everything. Like how quick you can pick up something going off feed, how quick you can make a change if your last feed change didn't work. You know, how quick can you make an adjustment with your showman in the ring to make that one just look an ounce better? Because you didn't see it when you set them up back at the pen, you know what I mean, when you guys were getting them ready. So I think just. Just having coachable parents and coachable kids, obviously that, you know, in my. My job, that makes them a lot more hireable as well. And from a. From a customer standpoint, when customers take feedback, it's a lot easier.
- [53:52]
Podcast Host
So. Best cheap road trip story I've.
- [53:55]
Trey Miller
Had a. I think you have as well. We've had a couple stumbling stories at the double L at Hill Bros. But we'll let those stories stay there. The first road trip we ever took, my buddy Nate and Logan, spring break my senior year, we were going to go out west and make a big sheep trip. So we had all this stuff mapped out. Did not think to check the weather where we were going. And it was worse than most, you know, the snowstorm that we drove through at your house. But we were on our way to Schmillen's and to the. And we were driving a little like Mazda 3 out there because, you know, fuel economy and we're broke college kids and we get stuck, like going to Schmillin's. Cause it tried to take us down like one of the little dirt. Dirt roads that the feed trucks take. And we got dug out, reversed back in their driveway, got stuck in their driveway, thankfully. I mean, so they showed us sheep again. They had to pull us out of the driveway of the barn to go up to where they had just built a new house. And thankfully they let us stay because all the roads were closed. But, you know, they live in. They live in hog barn country. So the roads were semi paid, you know, semi plowed by the time that we got out of there because all the feed trucks had to run in the morning. And. But man, that was. That was something. I always remember that trip. And I'll always appreciate Schmilin's hospitality of not just shipping us out the.
- [55:18]
Podcast Host
Door. I always, I feel like everyone's story always starts with we had this little car. Like, yeah, 100% always involves something with snow. I feel like the last two questions I have, and we've talked some about this, but what are the changes you've seen in the last three to four years in the.
- [55:35]
Trey Miller
Industry? You know, that's a, that's a very loaded question because I feel like every time we go to a show it's like, man, how can we make them better? And then you go to the next show and it's like they continue to get, you know, continue to get better. You know, obviously we have taken, you know, leg care and everything else, all the small detail things to like the extreme, which I think is incredible because a lot of kids, you know, some kids are still playing sports obviously, but I feel like a lot of kids have maybe made this their sport and a lot of families have maybe made this their sport and their vacations are traveling to shows and whatnot. Which is, which is fine. But I think you're the biggest change has been how small the margin is now between first through fifth or first through seventh. You know, there's one class at Louisville where I think he pulled 22 head out of the class to line up. You know, so I think you're how the biggest change has been just that margin of error is so small and that margin of difference is so small as we continue to make them better. You know, you still have people standing ringside like, man, there's no good ones or we're not making them, you know, they're not good and yada yada yada. Well, I think we all need to look in the mirror at that because we're contributing factors to that piece. But you know, if your focus is on build and muscle, then continue to push, build and muscle and make them as, as good build as he can. And I think that's where we're going to continue to push is making them tall, shouldered, wide, but still shallow and attractive, round bodied and continue to not sacrifice any muscle. So I think that's, that's my opinion. If they can get enough fuzz and they're going to get enough fuzz, you know, because there's enough products and routines and everything out there to, to get them there. So what's your.
- [57:16]
Podcast Host
Thoughts? Oh, you're gonna catch me off guard. I wasn't prepared. I think kind of goes with the generation interval type stuff of how fast we can get stuff into production being able to use new bucks. But I think the biggest change has been I think there's fewer people putting on the miles. And I feel like putting on the miles makes is an advantage to me. And I'm obviously very blessed because I have a job where I can work from anywhere. I have Jason who's willing to stay at home with the kids and take care of the barn. Braden's able to do a lot of work around here and so I'm able to go see sheep. But I am amazed at how few people or how many people will breed the bucks having not seen them or not talked to someone who's seen them or not talked to someone who's fed them. And I think that kind of goes back into the margin is so narrow like what you talked about. It's really hard to raise winners. It's really hard to get them in the right homes. It's really hard to do everything. So I think the difference that I've seen, I guess is people are more comfortable staying home and just decide, well, I'm going to go off this picture. I'm not going to put the miles on. That's been the difference I've seen. And I feel like the get the people that are kind of hustling and scrapping and putting in those trips and talking to people and feeding them themselves and going and looking. I feel like that helps them get that extra margin from a breeder standpoint. 100 and I agree spot on with everything you're saying on the margin is so little. Like I remember Jake Richardson once had made the comment winners do everything they can and wonder if they've done enough and losers do a little of things they've done at all. And it was probably worded better than that, but that was the point of it. And I listened to a lot of podcasts too. Like I we're probably going to scare off any Big Ten fan here because I like Coach Saban. I listened to a lot of anything that Saban's on. I think he has a lot of good feedback and I'm a big Ten person, but I think he has a lot of stuff that applies. And like you said, the margin is so slim between first and fifth that you have to just, I mean there is no we're going to feed this one for Louisville and hey, we want our class. Like that doesn't happen anymore. It's full on effort the whole.
- [59:19]
Trey Miller
Way. Yeah. And I mean and to go off that like that I list do a fair amount as well. Like that the cattle coach deal that's kind of came out here recently in the Potts family about focusing on the journey and not the trophy. I think that is a very good testament too, because, like, if you're not putting on the miles as a family or working together as a family or, you know, investing in better stock, like, your journey is not going to be very fun and you're never going to achieve the trophy. You know what I mean? But if you at the end of the day, sit down at the end of the show and be like, we did everything that we could and we came up just a little bit short because we're not quite there yet, I think that is the most rewarding feeling compared to being like, man, we gave this 70% and we're still ticked off. Like, what if you gave it 99% because you didn't have that extra 1% of help maybe from somebody to get there? You know, I think that would be. I think that's. That's.
- [60:20]
Podcast Host
Huge. So, yeah, we talk all the time about, like, controlling what you control, control, control the controllables. And I listened to a podcast a couple weeks ago, I think I actually sent it to you. It had Cooper cup on it from the NFL. And he was talking about, I do everything Monday through Saturday, which his game day would be Sunday. So he does everything Monday through Saturday to the highest degree. And then Sunday, you just can't care. Like, it's going to turn out however it can. And you're going to know that you put forth the max effort and it's out of your hands at that point. All you can do is go out and, you know, work hard, which in our equivalent is go out and show hard. And at the end of the day, you can't get worked up on the results. You just gotta trust did the.
- [60:57]
Trey Miller
Work. So, yep, hammer down on the next one and learn from what you know, learn from the feedback or learn from what you needed to do better and dial it in even closer, you.
- [61:05]
Podcast Host
Know? Yep. For sure. This is a very Ohio specific question, and this is one that I had when I was putting together questions. Ohio State Fair used to have a weight limit. For those of you that don't know. How has that changed the type of sheep that get raised in Ohio, the type that get fed, how has that changed things? With the weight limit no longer.
- [61:25]
Trey Miller
Being in place, I think it'll take a couple years for there to be an adjustment to the standard deviation of champions. So, you know, we've got a spreadsheet that we've kept since, gosh, probably 2001, that I was forwarded from somebody else. And then I've continued to build off it since then. But, like, 132 to 137 pounds is where our top five fall. And they have fallen forever even since we've lifted this. This weight change or the weight limit change. I think it'll take a minute for it to kind of adjust to now that we're raising more fall borns and kind of what their maturity pattern looks like. You know, they're going to be up there in weights by the last week of July.
- [62:10]
But I still think, you know, in. In Ohio, like, we're raising the kind that will be ready at 135 pounds, you know, and I think that's. I think that's also kind of helped Ohio's competitiveness, like, down the road as well. Because if you look at, you know, the last 10 years of. Of the majors and whatnot, you know, the Amstette's family, the Evans family, a couple of those others have had a very successful run because I feel like those sheep are still not there yet and have enough life left to be able to get there in the fall and then roll over to the spring. And even ones that we've sold after, you know, after state fair and stuff, you know, from a number of different people that have gone and done well other places, I feel like it's that same thing. Because our sheep are like, if you look at the grand scheme of things, we're class two at a big show, and that's our last class at our state fair, you know, like class one, you know, crossbreds or whatever at. At Louisville. That would be our second to last crossbred.
- [63:14]
Podcast Host
Class. Yeah, I never thought about it that.
- [63:16]
Cooper Newcomb
Way.
- [63:16]
Trey Miller
Yeah. Yeah. D1 would encompass our whole show.
- [63:19]
Podcast Host
So. Yeah, you'd be real small at.
- [63:22]
Trey Miller
Denver.
- [63:24]
I know. But. Yeah, I think that's. I think that's helped. And I think that's, you know, when we were. When we were showing. You know, everyone travels to Iowa and stuff, and I are seeing a lot of that Iowa crowd and others come to Ohio to grab that same kind. So I think it's. I think it's helped. I honestly think it's helped. So it'll be. It'll be anxious to see what happens the next. You know, we're two years in the next eight years of what that kind of pendulum swing is, you know, but people still kind of want them cute and chubby and boxy and still ready at 135 pounds in.
- [63:55]
Podcast Host
Ohio.
- [63:58]
Last question. I've got for you favorite sheep show. What is.
- [64:01]
Trey Miller
It? Oh, it's a loaded question.
- [64:06]
Man, I love the Ohio State Fair. Obviously, you know, 17th Ave. Always have a special place in my heart. The most fun sheep show to travel to, I think is the Iowa State Fair because I fill it up like it is sheep show meets Nashville because there's so many bars and live music and I don't know, it's just awesome national shows. I love Kansas City.
- [64:32]
I'm anxious to see what that new facility does for the future. But I feel like there's a lot. Like if you go to Kansas City, I feel like you gotta. You feel like you have one that can play. You know, the classes aren't as big. I usually lose like 10 pounds just walking up and down the ramp, which is awesome.
- [64:52]
But yeah, I mean, those are my.
- [64:54]
Podcast Host
Favorites. So outside of the sheep deal, now we've covered all the sheep stuff. Outside of that, what do you do? What does Trey Miller do on a day to day basis for a.
- [65:03]
Trey Miller
Job? Yeah. So I am a senior financial officer at Farm Credit Mid America. So I manage a $156 million portfolio for basically farmers, part time farmers, non ag businesses, et cetera.
- [65:21]
And then outside of that, I'm a pro staffer for Weaver. So travel around and do clinics and whatnot. There have another thing in the works a little bit, but that will be another livestock kind of hopefully potential revenue deal that I'll be able to be a part of. But yeah, that's it. My wife is an rn. She kind of works the contingent schedule. That's the K and TKM trade. Kelsey Miller. And then yeah, my two kiddos are first grade and preschool dance sports. Showing livestock hopefully a lot in the future. And that'll be. That'll be what it looks.
- [65:56]
Podcast Host
Like. I could see you being a good dance dad. Like that would have been bad ass with the mullet. I'm gonna have to edit that.
- [66:02]
Trey Miller
Out. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna have to grow that back for. For one of these dance dance deals. But no, it's awesome. I mean, just as proud as I am to watch my kids do anything. Berkeley. Berkeley's a good dancer, you know, in her little ballet and all that stuff. She's very meticulous and whatnot. So I'm proud to hand her a big bouquet of flowers when she's done and she's all giddy. And Cooper will be. Cooper will be the athlete that I definitely was not. But my wife was because that kid is he can hit you in the junk when he's throwing a ball on purpose and laugh about it, and then he'll beat you in pig at the same.
- [66:39]
Cooper Newcomb
Time.
- [66:40]
Podcast Host
So.
- [66:43]
Well, thanks a bunch for joining us. For all of you guys that want to check out more about Trey's flock, like you said, it's t livestock and you can find them on championdrive.com and be sure to stop by this spring when you're out looking for babies. So thanks.
- [66:57]
Trey Miller
Again. Thank.
- [66:58]
Podcast Host
You.
- [67:01]
Well, I hope you all enjoyed this episode of the ChampionDrive.com podcast. We'll be back with another episode soon. Have a great.
- [67:07]
Cooper Newcomb
Week.
- [67:16]
Sam.