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- [00:04]
Charlie Kirk
My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Turning Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord. Use me. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold investments@noblegold investments.com that is noblegoldinvestments.com
- [01:17]
Blake
all right, welcome to the Charlie Kirk show here at the Y Refi Studios in Phoenix, Arizona. How are we doing, Blake?
- [01:23]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Oh, we're doing lovely.
- [01:24]
Blake
It is June 18, 2026, by the way. Just want to say thank you for all your reviews and your subscribes on the podcast. It's doing very well. Appreciate you guys out there supporting us. And leave those reviews. Hit the like button. It helps us so much. And we have a presser going on with J.D. vance right now. Vice President J.D. vance is still at it, but we already have a lot of great clips from him. He's just taking questions from troopers.
- [01:53]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
What a trooper.
- [01:55]
Blake
You can even hear it in his voice. He's sort of losing his voice because he has been on an absolute media BLITZ and it's JD's big sell. And this is all becoming very, very clear actually, as this is going on now. It's been clear for a while. If you think back to the Maggie Haberman Jonathan Swan piece where they were contemplating the strikes against Iran to begin with, and Bibi Netanyahu's in the Situation Room, which candidly probably shouldn't have happened, but we know the story now. And JD said, I think it's a dumb thing to do, but if you do it, I'll have your back. Marco said, hey, there was four objectives that the Israelis put out. It was stop their nukes, stop their missiles, regime change, and popular revolt. Said, if you get the first Two, it's good. The second two, I think their intel is garbage. So if you want to get the first two, go for it. So these are kind of the stakes, which is very interesting. So he's taking questions at the presser. We should go through some of the clips first and then I think we have a lot to explain kind of the story behind the story here. Let's start with SAP 42.
- [02:56]
J.D. Vance
They don't get any of the benefits of the bargain. So what I'd ask all of you is just to report honestly that the United States isn't giving up a cent of money to Iran. And even the economic benefits, the sanctions relief and so forth, that comes along with this bargain only happens if the Iranians perform.
- [03:14]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
We have another good one here. He's explaining why he believes the deal is it's not win with some downside win, lose. It's actually a win win situation for America. 44.
- [03:25]
J.D. Vance
So you really have a win win situation for the United States of America. If the Iranians don't change their behavior, their military and their nuclear program is still destroyed. If they do change their behavior, then they are going to have a transformative relationship with the Middle east and the Middle east will have a transformative relationship with the people of Iran. That's a win for the American people and for the President of the United States. Regardless of which option the Iranians ultimately choose, we obviously want them to choose the right option.
- [03:54]
Blake
All right, so win, win. And I think he's right. And it's just been interesting to see the way that everybody in the social media ecosphere, the commentary ecosphere, has been dividing. Right? So you got the Warhawks, the hardliners on one side, and then a lot of us that were skeptical about going into Iran in the first place, very happy to see that peace is. We're giving a shot, Blake. We're giving it a shot. And I think that's the whole point here is like, yeah, okay, the Iranians have never been good faith actors, but
- [04:25]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
the Iranians who are bad faith actors are heavily dead.
- [04:28]
Blake
Yeah, exactly. And you gotta give peace a shot here. And so far so good. And JD lays this out. 43.
- [04:36]
J.D. Vance
Peace plan in Iran is already bearing real fruits for the American people. Last night, 12.5 million barrels of oil went through the Strait of Hormuz. That is a high since the beginning of the conflict. Oil prices are down nearly at their level from the pre war conflict. Gas prices dropped below $4 a gallon today for the first time since the conflict. And importantly, they're Going to keep falling further given how low oil prices are on the military side. The Iranians for the second night in a row did not shoot at any ships in the Strait of Hormuz. So far, they are honoring their end of the commitment. And on the blockade, CENTCOM has allowed north of a dozen ships to go through our naval blockade. And so we're also honoring our end of the early part of the agreement.
- [05:19]
Blake
All right, so we're honoring it. They're honoring it. I understand people's hesitancy to believe that something better can come along, cuz Iran has been bad for 47 years. That's not a lie to say that. And I understand people's skepticism here. But what is the alternative? That's like, I would love somebody to present me the alternative. Do you expect 100,000 ground troops in Iran? Is that what you want?
- [05:44]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Definitely. I mean, I've run into people who say that where they're saying, well, President Trump can't run for reelection. The value of being a lame duck is you can do things that are unpopular. Well, I think there's a lot of things worth doing in America that might be unpopular. And I don't think tens of thousands of troops indefinitely in Iran is one of them.
- [06:01]
Blake
Yeah, well, and listen, we were talking about this with Steve Dase. He's gonna come on the show on Monday. We're gonna go through this in more detail, but you can make a serious case that the best outcome has actually happened in the sense that, and I'm not saying this is true, but you could make a very strong case for this, that not having full regime change could have been the best thing for Iran. So I'm borrowing some of this from Steve here, but, you know, he lays it out. Blake and I were on this text with him. Israel and the Arab Sunnis share a mutual disdain for Iran. They would never agree on what would come next. Okay. An argument could be made. Toppling the regime increases odds for a spillover regional conflict as everyone tries to establish their presence within an oil. This is completely true. It would create a vacuum, a void that everybody would rush into, including bad actors. Kurds want their own country. The Israelis still want the secular youth who protested in January or the grandson of the Shah. Arab Sunnis will want an El Sisi or Erdogan type. And they may all have a different version of that, friendly to their interests that they prefer. That's in a conversation Blake and I were having with Steve. He tweeted something similar. The point is, if you fully topple the regime, if that's your alternative, you are going to have a sectarian mess on your hands. Right now. There's a semblance of the old order that can create at least a little structure, maybe a little bit of opportunity for economic improvement, for stabilization, normalization of relations.
- [07:32]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
And that's what some people want. To be frank, some people would be fine with sending Iran into civil war, into a bloodbath. They would say, at least then it's not threatening the United States. But that's never been President Trump's way. And personally, I don't think it would be a very ethical way to go about things deliberately. President Trump, he's a guy who likes to make deals. He's a guy who likes to build, he's a guy who likes to reach accommodations. He's proud that he took a lot of messes in the Middle east and took them toward a resolution, even something like Syria, where they there's a ruler we might not 100% like. But Syria's not in civil war anymore. Gaza certainly a big pile of rubble. Still lots of problems, difficulties with the ceasefire, but it's not getting blown up every single day like it was when he took office. President Trump wants to reach resolutions and accommodations that can work for people.
- [08:23]
Blake
Well, this is a great point you're making, and it's so key, and I want our audience to understand this. The old paradigm was these big treaties that one side completely loses and the other side completely wins. Okay? You only get that if you're willing to go all in. The American people are not willing to send ground troops into Iran. So again, what is your alternative? If you're not gonna give peace a chance, if you're gonna say, this is worse than the jcpoa, which it's not. It's a ridiculous statement to make. Some of my friends have been making that statement. If you're not, what is your alternative? You don't have one. But in today's day and age, when you're willing to do things like a blockade, to exert economic force, when you're dropping bombs on their industrial base and on their military base, what you get is a deal. A deal in a Trumpian fashion which says, hey, we will welcome you back into the world of normalization, of modern economic prosperity if you do X, Y and Z, and if you don't, we'll drop some more bombs on your head, or we'll blockade the straight again, the choice is yours. That's what a Trumpian era deal is going to look like. And it's A complete win. This is the other thing that bothers me. People saying, oh, you lost, they're bending you, you're taking the knee to Iran. That's garbage. All right, so let's go through the story behind this story. It's very interesting. Show the President signing this. He was sitting next to Emmanuel Macron as part of his trip to the G7. So this is actually him signing the MOU. Okay. But the story behind the story is I think one that it came off like a joke from President Trump, but I think there's truth to it and it's worth explaining and diving into cuz there's a lot of speculation. Some of it's probably fake media spin, whatever, but I think there's probably some truth to it. So President Trump is probably caught between two impulses here. He, after all, was the guy that went in and I think wanted to bomb Iran. Actually, you know, there's everybody saying Israel dog walked us into this. I think Israel told the President what he wanted to hear and he said as much multiple times saying if anything, I got them into this. And I don't think he likes being told that he got dog walked. He saw intel from Israel that he liked cuz he's been saying Iran should not have a nuclear weapon for a long time. He wanted to deal with this. He, after all, took out General Soleimani. Soleimani, Whatever. He, Soleimani. He has been on this and fixated on this problem for a long time. All right, but then he's got guys like J.D. vance that didn't want to go in. He's probably looking at the polling. I can tell you, our young people did not like this war to begin with. At Turning Point, our students, they don't know how to defend it. We try and help them explain what the reasoning is, but even, you know, we're a little bit unsure about the results. We love the path to peace. Okay, but listen to this clip from President Trump last night and we'll explain the story behind the story in a second. 49. There's some element to this where you
- [11:27]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
send the Vice President. If it works out, great. You look like a genius for sending him.
- [11:34]
Blake
And if it doesn't work out, it's the Vice President.
- [11:37]
Adam Wren
I like that idea.
- [11:37]
Blake
Sure. This way, if it works out, I'm going to take the credit.
- [11:40]
Alex Marlow
If it doesn't work out, I'm blaming J.D. you better be careful, J.D.
- [11:46]
Blake
so Blake and I had these exact same reaction when we saw that clip. It's a good joke. It's A laughable moment, but it's true too. But there's some truth to it and that's why you see J.D. vance, yes, it's part of his book tour, but it's coinciding with the Iran deal. That's why the title of today's stream is the Big. The Big Sell from JD And I'm totally supportive, by the way. That's not a bad thing. JD has been a voice for peace in wrapping this up and I love that. But look at this headline from Mediaite and this is the story that's being spun, the little webs that's being spun in D.C. in the media bubble there it says Rubio's two day absence secretary's media silence is a flashing red sign that Trump's Iran deal stinks. Okay, that's Mediaite being a bunch of jerks. The deal is an absolute home run for the United States. Even Joel Pollack, by the way, who's Jewish. Jewish. America has been a very anti Israel, has been in favor of strikes against Iran. I think I said Israel, I meant Iran has been very anti Iran has been very much in favor of the strikes there. Says this deal is a good deal. So Mediaite can stuff it, but this is the story behind the story. Two scenarios are probably going to play out in the future and they are high stakes. They are high stakes. Make no ifs, ands or buts about it. If this works, this could be the biggest win of J.D. vance's career and frankly the biggest win for America in a long time to get this deal done. No nuclear, everything works. Economic revitalization in the region, normalization, stabilization in the Middle east. And JD Will be able to take a bow and say, look, we gave peace a chance and it worked.
- [13:34]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
This is how it should be. We know that President Trump, I mean, he'll say he'll take ownership of it if it works and he'll deserve to. Cause he made the right call as president. But I don't think anyone's going to forget that if this works out, that the Vice President cheated, put the sell job on it. He was the man who said we should seek the off ramp. We should try to get the peaceful outcome, we shouldn't escalate. And he's getting the chance to sell it. This is the, this is excellent accountability. This is a real version. We'd always joke where the White House would. They'd throw Kamala to the wolves on the border or something when she didn't know what was going on, had no real ownership of what was going on. They complained about it endlessly. We know that this is something close to what Vice President Vance cares about and what he advocates for. And now he's selling it to the public, which he's gotten great training for ever since he became the vice presidential nominee. He, he was going into those hostile areas, making the sell for the president in 2024, early 25, he's doing it again here.
- [14:33]
Blake
The question is, what happens if it doesn't work out?
- [14:37]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
If it doesn't work out.
- [14:38]
Blake
And I think that's why you see Marco Rubio sort of fading into the background here. I think Marco wants to let JD have his moment, make the big pitch. And I think if it doesn't work out, you're going to see the reemergence of Marco in phase two. So what's happening is Marco is untying himself from this on purpose so that if it doesn't work out, he'll be a fresh face, clean perspective.
- [15:06]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
He'll be the face of. Well, here's the alliance we're building to continue these new strikes on.
- [15:12]
Blake
We will absolutely crush Iran.
- [15:13]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Yes.
- [15:14]
Blake
Economically, the blockade, the whole deal. Okay? So that is the story behind the story, is that JD Is getting his chance here, which I pray with everything I've got that it works. We do not want to send American boys into more blood, sand and death in the Middle East. The appetite for a ground invasion is nil. It's nothing. Okay, so everybody pushing it, operating under this old paradigm. No. The neocons are dead. Okay. That era is gone. We don't wanna go back there at all. Okay. So I don't know what their expectation is here. You've got to offer something to a modern state. Yeah. Sanctions relief. Yeah. The opportunity for regional partners to invest in your economy and your infrastructure. Of course. And President Trump made a great point. He's like, what are we gonna do? Hold their money forever? That wouldn't work at all as well. And by the way, having the dollar as the go to de facto currency of the world, that would go away too. All right. If you're just gonna rob people and keep their money. So some of you out there that are probably more on the Warhawk side, that want to see the regime fall and all this stuff, I get the frustration, I get the skepticism, but you also have to be realistic. This is a deal that could be a win win and a total slam dunk for the United States if it works. And if it doesn't, expect to see more Marco Rubio coming up in phase two. It feels like our country finally has momentum again with our leaders fighting to restore common sense and American first values. But we've seen this before. Conservatives get comfortable and the left starts taking back ground inch by inch. We can't let that happen in these midterms. America needs every one of us in the fight and a big part of that means supporting companies that actually stand for our values. That's why I'm so proud to partner with Patriot Mobile. Patriot Mobile gives you premium priority nationwide service on any of the three major US networks. So you get coverage you need, plus unlimited data plans, mobile hotspot, international roaming and 100% US based customer support. Switching is easy. Keep your number, keep your phone and activate in just minutes. But Patriot Mobile is so much more than just a great wireless company. They've built a growing movement of Americans defending faith, family, freedom and the future of this country by donating millions every year to organizations fighting for our freedoms. So go to patriotmobile.com charlie that's patriotmobile.com charlie or call 972 Patriot. Use promo code charlie for a free month of service. That's patriotmobile.com charlie or call 972 Patriot. To make the switch today, gotta wish a happy birthday to one of our watchers. I think he's on the rumble Stream. Mark B. 888 says today is his birthday and he just turned 70 and it blows his mind, God bless him. Yeah, 70. I mean, I think about the idea of turning 70 and it would kind of blow my mind too. I think every new milestone birthday, it does kind of blow your mind because you internally feel like you're still like a kid, you know. Anyways, happy birthday, Mark. Thanks for watching. We appreciate you, man. All right, Michael Knowles, the great, the one, the only, the papal apologist. Michael Knowles, welcome back to the show. It's good to see you.
- [18:28]
Michael Knowles
Good to be with you, sir. By the way, to the listener who turned 70 today, it's my kid's second birthday also. So he shares a birthday with my kid and every kid I have. And every day that goes by with my kids, I feel more and more like I am 70. So there's a lot of birthday synergy.
- [18:45]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Yeah, you'll pretty soon probably have a birthday for a kid on every day
- [18:49]
Blake
of the year, right Michael? That's right. As a good Catholic, you got at least six month covered. Yeah, yeah. You got to time it up anyways. You don't want to clump them together. Michael. That's. I got, I got like my, basically from Christmas to February, I'm in a lot of trouble. You got like, balance, which is like a fake holiday.
- [19:10]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
You fold them in with other ones. My sister was a Christmas Eve baby.
- [19:13]
Blake
And so, well, I've got a December 29th baby. Okay. So I got Christmas, December 29th. It just, it never ends, that whole. Yeah. Anyways, it's not why you're here. It's not why you're here, Michael. We're moving on. All right, I want to get your reaction. I know you've been supportive of the president and the vice president moving towards peace with Iran. And then all the naysayers are coming out of the woodwork. All these people that were like, president Trump is the best. He is going hard after Iran. We love this. Go watch Fox on Sunday night and to hear all about how great it is now, they're all scattering to the wind. There's no support here for this, of course. Yeah. What's your take on that?
- [19:53]
Michael Knowles
It's amazing. So what's so amazing is when President Trump entered the war in Iran, you had some people on the right who said, you know, Trump is getting bad advice from people. It's not Trump's fault, but he's getting bad advice. And then you had all the real war hawks coming out and they were saying, you need to go out and you need to blame Trump. You know, how dare you suggest Trump isn't making this call on his own. How dare you suggest he's not his own free man, he's not intelligent, whatever. But now that we're getting peace, all of a sudden they say, no, it's not Trump's fault, it's his wicked advisors. It's J.D. vance's fault, it's Jared Kushner's fault, someone else's fault. I think now we've just completely flipped here. But, you know, the one person who hasn't flipped is Trump. And you know, what actually hasn't flipped is the American interest. And so Trump has been very clear. He's been tough on Iran. He says that Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. He, he's willing to stop that. In the case of this war, I think he's very, very seriously set back the nuclear weapon, but that's it. He doesn't want to get bogged down in another decade long regime change, war. The Iranian regime, wicked though it is, is a pretty durable regime. It lasted twice as long already as the CIA backed regime that we installed in 1953. So I don't think that there was any appetite whatsoever for a protracted Conflict, American boots on the ground. Trump just wasn't going to go there. And so what you see is Trump is his own man. He achieved a lot of strategic objectives, set back the nuclear program, destroyed the ballistic missiles, took out two levels of the Iranian leadership. But at this point, interests have diverged. And so at this point, Trump says, we got really what we wanted out of this. The state of Israel might have some other interests here, but that's not really our chief concern. And so now we're going to wind this down, reopen the Strait of Hormuz before we totally obliterate our strategic petroleum reserve with. We're going to get 20% of the world's oil flowing again. And we've taught Iran a lesson. Maybe we'll go back in if we have to. This is good stuff. This is exactly what we want. This is the pragmatic foreign policy. In fact, if anyone read the national security document that the White House published last year, this is exactly what we're talking about.
- [21:54]
Blake
I played a clip from that on the show yesterday from his speech, which was. It mirrored that strategic document that you're talking about. And I completely agree. People need to remember what the North Star here is and why Trump got elected in the first place, and why this pragmatic foreign policy approach completely meets that objective. It mirrors that. Exactly. Go on, please.
- [22:17]
Michael Knowles
In the document, it says, we want to have ideals without being idealist. We want to be realistic without being foreign policy realists. In other words, we want to put America first. Prudence is the paramount political virtue. I think Trump has done this very well. And so now you're starting to see some fissures. A lot of the attacks now are focusing on JD Vance because people don't wanna go after Trump directly. But I think a lot of those fissures that you're beginning to see are actually just a reemergence of the fissures you saw back in 2016. You're seeing a lot of old Donald Trump is sort of anti Trump again. Now they're just projecting that onto J.D. vance, who's the heir, apparently. So I think you're already beginning to see 2028 play out right now. A lot of divisions within the gop. The funny thing is, though, there doesn't seem to be a lot of division within the administration. And I'm quite relieved. I think they've played this very, very well. And I think the conclusion of this kind of a war was always going to be a deal that didn't satisfy everybody or a protracted conflict and given those two options, I'm happy to take the former.
- [23:23]
Blake
I thought you were going to ask a question. I have many thoughts, I mean many,
- [23:26]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
many thoughts on this and all but looking ahead to 2028, the thought I've had is we see a lot of people, they've clearly want to go after J.D. vance. They see him as a symbol of a direction in the GOP they don't like. But I've had this thought where they might try to mount a primary challenge to him in 28. They might try to push forward a more hawkish person. And I just wonder, is there any appetite for that within the broader base? I feel like we might even have this divergence where there's very angry people in D.C. and the entire rest of the country thinks like, oh, JD's great, he's Trump's guy, he opposes wars in the Middle East.
- [24:04]
Blake
Very like that seems awesome. He did a great Joy Behar even likes him now. You know, I know.
- [24:09]
Michael Knowles
You know, it's funny coming out of the I think the Vice president, I think just made this point at the White House where he said, look, people are saying I don't have any experience negotiating with hostile regimes. I just went on the view and Joy Behar is my best friend. Now people are using that, trying to use that against JD as this is evidence of some real political talent. So I think your point is totally apt, which is, look, the chattering class is all upset about this. The policy wonk bowtie types are upset, but what about the actual GOP base? And I just don't really see it there. I mean, Trump has a lock on the GOP. He took it over in 2016. He remains the man. His approval rating is among the MAGA coalition are still sky high. And so whoever he picks is very likely to be the nominee. The only person right now from within the administration who could seriously challenge Vance is Marco Rubio. Rubio who I think by the way is not all that far apart from Vance, despite what some of the chattering class. They're trying to make him out to be a Bush era neocon. I don't think that's even really accurate. But even if it were, Marco Rubio's already endorsed J.D. vance and Donald Trump has endorsed the two of them running as a ticket. So I don't know the division within the chattering class. Once again, I don't think you see that in the admin and I don't think you see it with the base.
- [25:24]
Blake
I think we kind of laid this out in the Last segment, I think the future of what happens in 2028, which, you know, it's fun to think about, but we have midterms in between. It could really be determined by what happens with this deal. Candidly, if this ends up going swimmingly, this is going to be a huge boon for JD's prospects in the future. And if not, you might see Marco Rubio come in and clean up in phase two in the. Okay, they didn't honor their terms of the agreement. Marco's gonna probably play a heavy hand in that, I would think. But it is interesting, this point you're making. I think back to that National Review magazine. You remember the Never Trumpers against Trump. And it was like all the names on that. It's like every single name on that National Review cover are the ones that saying, this, this deal is no good. It's basically one to one.
- [26:13]
Michael Knowles
This is the thing is, look, I think some people were sincerely persuaded to support Trump after they opposed him in 2016. Even when they very publicly opposed him, Trump just was really good and he proved a lot of them wrong. So I think there was some of that. But I think the basic fissures within the gop, especially in the conservative movement, chattering class policy wonk types, I think those still exist. And so it's a curious fact that all of the people who are going most apoplectic over this deal, they're basically all the people who were in the against Trump issue and the big Never Trump movement. So those divisions haven't really gone away. I think you're totally right, too, that. I mean, I said this right when the bombs started dropping in Iran. I said, this is the boldest move that Trump has made of his administration and it poses the biggest risk. This really could tank his legacy. Now, Trump is very good at giving himself an out. So there is a world in which you have this MOU and then you have the 60 day negotiation period. Well, what's happening in about 60, 70 days? Oh, right, the midterm elections. There is a world in which this gets them through the midterm elections and then the war hawks win out again, depending on Iran's behavior. Now, I hope that's not the case. I hope Iran behaves. I hope this peace deal remains in place. I hope the Strait of Hormuz remains open and we can focus on other things. But yeah, with Trump, it's always unpredictable. That's his greatest foreign policy strength, when he's negotiating well.
- [27:40]
Blake
And I think, you know, I'm reminded of this clip from Charlie where he, I think it was on Jesse Watters, the night. It's like the night or the night before Midnight Hammer. And he said, President Trump knows his base very well and he will not get us embroiled in a forever war. Another quagmire in the Middle East. He knows his base very well. And because of that, Charlie said, I've got his back. You know, it's no secret he was not in favor of Midnight Hammer. But he said, hey, once he made the decision to go in, I've got his back and I trust him not to get us in a forever war. And look, here we are three months, and if you get the nuclear off the table, if we get the dust, if they let us in and go get it and the strait remains open with no tolls, you gotta give the man some due here. If we can achieve this objective, if Iran comes to their senses and actually acts like a normal country, this would be a huge, huge win, historic, legacy building kind of win. So here we go. The EU passes its strictest migration law in the EU's history, which it's still. It's not like it's pretty bad still. It's still bad, but it's in the right direction. Okay. And then the Pope, because he just has to says this. He criticized the blanket re migration as a solution. He says many times we don't recognize the reasons why these people had to leave their countries. Many reasons. Violence, war, conflicts. So simply saying we'll send them away so we can wash our hands of the problem doesn't seem like the most Christian response to me. We really need to take a look at the cases and above all, treat people with respect as individuals. Now, I just have to say the
- [29:24]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
headline that we're getting with this is, this is how the Daily Beast frames it. Pope blasts Trump backed immigration plan as not Christian.
- [29:31]
Blake
Yes, exactly. So that's how it goes. But here's the EU folks chanting send them back. 53. All right, so that's about as exciting as any deliberative body in the EU will ever get. Send them back.
- [30:05]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
They're not very exciting.
- [30:07]
Blake
It's not very exciting. Clip was about 10 seconds too long anyways, Knowles, what do I make of this? What do we make of this?
- [30:13]
Michael Knowles
Well, I love, of course, the framing. It always has to be. The Pope is attacking Trump. When the Pope's comments, like so many of his political comments, were kind of mild mannered, you know, he said, well, we need to consider the dignity of the migrant, which of course, we absolutely have to do. Now Looking back at history, I seem to recall a servant of God, Queen Isabella of Spain, she was pretty tough on the remigration issue. She did reign over the Reconquista, ending 800 years of Muslim occupation of Spain. I think of Pope Saint Pius V during the Battle of Lepanto. There were a lot of Turkish Muslims who wanted to migrate into Europe. And the Pope, with the help of Our lady and Our Lord, turned them around in this improbable win, instituted at the feast of Our lady of Victory, Our lady of the Rosary. So, you know, I guess it's a mixed bag on immigration policy over Catholic history. And in fairness to the Pope, when the Pope, he makes these comments and he's speaking in defense of members of his flock, you know, some of the migrants, most of them are Muslims, I guess, but some of them are in his flock. And he's speaking of human dignity more broadly. But when he was really pressed on the issue last year on open borders, he said, no, no, no. Nobody thinks a country should have open borders. A country has a right to determine who and how and when people come into the country. So when you really press him on the political issue, he's been clear about that. But I agree. I mean, I suppose in this case it's probably good for European migration policy that the Pope is not a member of any European parliaments. And, you know, the Pope's brother does also seem to have a little bit of a different view on migration. So, you know, look, I. A Pope defender, I'm a Pope Leo enjoyer. I think, really his papacy has been, or his pontificate has been a nice turn of events after recent years. But, yeah, some of the political issues, he's a little bit more to the left. And happily, he's not the one actually legislating in these countries.
- [32:06]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
So I kind of want to get another Pope thing because it links to another topic we wanted that we were hitting earlier about the left doesn't seem to love America as much anymore. And they actually asked the Pope who he would cheer for if Peru and the United States were to play each other. And he, of course, spent a long time as a priest in Peru, and it seems he said he'd probably cheer for Peru and not gonna dive too deep into his personal feelings. But, Michael, why don't people wanna cheer for the United States? We would be the underdog against Peru, I suspect.
- [32:42]
Charlie Kirk
Would we?
- [32:42]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
I don't know.
- [32:43]
Michael Knowles
I'm really torn because I love America, but I really hate soccer, and I don't want soccer to take Root here. So I guess I have to vote for the American team. When it comes to the Pope saying, I'd probably root for Peru, I do think part. Look, maybe he just really likes Peru. He spent a lot of time there. But part of it, I think, is he's very sensitive as the first American Pope, I don't think he wants to be seen as being too partisan or, I don't know, too nationalistic about America. So he's not gonna be in the United States on July 4th. He's gonna be in Lampedusa. I think there's a little bit of that going on.
- [33:16]
Poll/Statistic Narrator or Additional Commentator
The.
- [33:16]
Michael Knowles
The one upside to the Pope's American citizenship. We know how he voted, and we know he's the first pope who is a registered Republican. So I'll take it. I'll take the wins there. In terms of these Democrat politicians, an elected Democrat congressman, and the woman that he's running against in New York's 13th, they said, who are you rooting for in the World Cup? One of them says Mexico, one of them says Senegal. And you think, Senegal. What the heck, man? You know, look, Democrats have hated America for a long time, but they used to be pretty chill about it. Like when Obama would come in and say, well, I want to fundamentally transform America. That is a statement of contempt for America. You don't want to fundamentally transform something you love. But at least he's still kind of. He's subtle. He's saying, oh, you know, there's no red America, there's no blue America, United States, America, whatever. And so now they're just totally open about it. And, I mean, I actually came to the conclusion last night, these people should not vote. And I'm not even. I'm not just being provocative or hyperbolic. And if you. Certainly if you're an elected representative, for goodness sakes, the congressman's title is U.S. representative. You can't even vote for the U.S. team in the World cup that we're hosting. But I kind of think you look at that CNN poll, Reuters, Ipsos, showing that support among Democrats for Pride in America collapsed by.
- [34:32]
Blake
I think we should play it for the audience. 38, you'll get the reaction, and you'll take us home here.
- [34:38]
Poll/Statistic Narrator or Additional Commentator
38, look at how we have an increasing polarization on this issue. We'll display the flag on July 4th. The American fl. Back in July of 2001, look at this. You had 68% of Republicans, 65% of Democrats saying that they would, in fact display the flag on July 4th. You come over to this Side of the screen. Republicans basically are where they were 25 years ago, right? 64%. But look at that Democratic percentage absolutely plummeting. Just 27% of Democrats say they will, in fact display the flag on July 4th in 2026. Look at this again. The Democratic percentage absolutely plummets to just 29% of Democrats say they're extremely. Are very proud to be an American. That Republican percentage, The exact same.
- [35:24]
Blake
All right, final minute to you, Michael. What do you make of this?
- [35:29]
Michael Knowles
These people shouldn't vote. They should not be allowed to vote. I'm not even throwing bombs.
- [35:34]
Blake
No. I have lots of provocative thoughts about who shouldn't vote. So I'm with you.
- [35:39]
Charlie Kirk
Yeah, well, right.
- [35:39]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
That's true.
- [35:39]
Michael Knowles
We could be here all day. You cannot enfranchise people who openly, actively hate the country. The whole point of voting is so that people who have a stake in the country, who wish for the good of the country can actually promote it. We now have elected representatives and ordinary voters who overwhelmingly and openly hate the country. If those are the people running the country, it ain't gonna go well for very long. I mean, and the fact that we're hosting a big soccer tournament maybe is evidence that our national decline is already upon us.
- [36:10]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
It's dead serious that if. This is why immigration can be a hazard. You get people whose top priority is a foreign country. A foreign country. Mexico agitates for its immigrants to do this. Plenty of other countries do, too. Michael, it's very good to have you. We'll certainly be having you on more. I'm sure the Pope will say more things that will occasion.
- [36:30]
Blake
The Pope says something else obnoxious. We're gonna. We know who to call. Michael Knowles. Thank you for your time, my friend. We'll talk to you soon.
- [36:36]
Michael Knowles
See you later.
- [36:39]
Blake
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- [38:03]
Alex Marlow
It's great to be back. I had such a great time with Blake the other day for a full hour. That was really fun doing the listener Q and A. So thanks, everyone, for participating.
- [38:11]
Blake
It was a blast. I was worried about Blake, and I knew that Alex would be the steady hand upon. I'm kidding. Blake, you did a great job.
- [38:19]
Alex Marlow
I had that effect on that.
- [38:20]
Blake
Great feedback. No. So, Alex, we got a lot to get to, actually. The Obama library is opening up with a really crazy clip.
- [38:28]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
That was the Obama sandcrawler, the Obama
- [38:30]
Blake
monolith, the Obama trash can, the Obama villain, the abomination.
- [38:34]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Lex Luthor headquarters.
- [38:35]
Blake
The abomination that causes desecration. Across the south side of Chicago, we've got this UFC terror plot that just keeps getting weirder and weirder. And I know that was top of your list here, Alex, so let's get to it. I'm going to play a news report on it. Get your reaction. 21 News alert. DHS confirming the suspected ringleader accused in
- [38:56]
Alex Marlow
a plot to carry out a mass casualty attack at the UFC event at
- [39:00]
Blake
the White House on Sunday is an illegal immigrant. Our colleagues over at Fox News report the alleged ringleader of this incident, Abraham Alvarez, was in the country illegally from Mexico, but also may have been granted DACA status, allowed to stay back into the Obama administration. Oh, Obama comes right back around. You thought I was just. That wasn't a misdirect. So I thought dreamers just wanted the American dream, Alex, it turns out their idea of the American dream is a mass casualty terrorist event at the White House.
- [39:32]
Alex Marlow
Yeah, and there's so many dots to connect here. Of course. We were just completely hoaxed on all the dreamer stuff. We acted like they were all just gonna be doctors and surgeons. Well, actually, some of them just end up doing major terror plots trying to blow up the White House during a sporting event. Just think about how triggered the anti Trump crowd was by that UFC event. Andrew Breitbart talked about this 15 years ago. We've got to be the fun people. And we were so fun that we threw a big massive event for tens of thousands of people. The White House. Combat fights. The things that people love, combat sports, that just. There's nothing more popular in our culture than this right now. And they tried to stop it with lawsuits. And then there are these dreamers trying to blow it up. And this guy overstaying visas because we don't police our visas. A Mexican national. We first thought, I know you guys had a great show title on this. That this was in a. This is a Luigi plot. That this was Luigi Mangione. It was someone who's going to blow up the billionaires. Well, which is of course should be frowned upon at a minimum. But also now, Luigi, I'm sure you guys caught this. His team is arguing that he's a psychotic. That he is now has a psychiatric defense in his murder trial. Even while people on the fringe left of our country treat him as he's still a hero. The left, every one of their narratives is crumbling right now. And we're watching it in real time.
- [40:47]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
I mean, it's not even really crumbling. It just seems that is the left. The left. We've highlighted this many a time that they are. There's a polarization of mental wellness in the country that if you tell some, if you're willing to tell a pollster, I've been diagnosed with a mental illness of some kind, you're vastly more likely to be on the left. They collect these ailments, these grievances, and that's such a core part of their ideology. That's why that's what's driving the mangeonism. I am miserable and unhappy. And the problem is a billionaire, a builder, a doer. I could fix everything if I kill them. And that's why we highlighted this as a mangionius plot. Even if they in some ways identified as on the far right. It's going on the horseshoe all the way back around. Because this revolutionary, all consuming, anarchic, destructive violence is fundamentally a part of the left.
- [41:44]
Blake
Yeah, it's horseshoe terrorism, Alex. That's what it is.
- [41:48]
Alex Marlow
Yeah. And that's why it feels like there's a huge lane opened up for sane people who are willing to actually use arguments and not just emotions for things. But if you look at where I am at in California, where the State just completely destroyed by illegal aliens. And it's not just people streaming over the border, it's people overstaying visas. And now with Peter Schweitzer's brilliant reporting in the last year, we're learning more details in the birth tourism where people are coming in. They're not even coming in, they're sending surrogates. They're basically doing surrogacy. So a baby is born in America, but is actually going to grow up in China and then has the freedom to come back and then bring their families through chain migration. That's all law in our country. And the fact that this is tied to Obama, this particular terror plot, to Obama's dreamers, one of Obama's precious dreamers. The day his library opens up is just, it's such a poetic moment.
- [42:40]
Blake
So I have to play this clip here for you. We have it, right? Yes, we do. Obama, he's the gift that keeps on giving. They're doing a big press tour. I don't know if they're trying to raise more money cuz the contractors are stiffing some of the workers or whatever. But here's Valerie Jarrett, former Obama advisor, christening the Obama Presidential center opening ceremony with some land acknowledgments 55.
- [43:11]
Alex Marlow
We'd also like to take a moment
- [43:13]
Blake
to recognize the original inhabitants of the
- [43:16]
Alex Marlow
land upon which we are gathered today.
- [43:18]
Blake
We honor the Anishinaabe, the Council of Three Fires, the Ojibwe, the Odawa, and the Potawatomi nations. So honest question, are land. Acknowledgments. Shout out Ojibwe thing that Democrats do.
- [43:34]
Alex Marlow
Shout out Potawatomi Nation.
- [43:36]
Blake
No, no. A special, special shout out to the Council of Three Fires.
- [43:40]
Alex Marlow
Shout out Gabrielinos. Shout out Tongvas. Shout out Navajo. We're just gonna start every show.
- [43:45]
Blake
Shout out. Shout out. We just get every show. We're just gonna have all some new random tribal names.
- [43:50]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
This show is taking place on unceded Arizona Cardinals land.
- [43:53]
Blake
Yeah, so.
- [43:55]
Alex Marlow
So the. We have to make fun of these people. We have no choice. And I love her.
- [43:59]
Blake
They leave us.
- [44:00]
Alex Marlow
Yeah, they leave us a choice. And it's just, I know a lot of people listen audio. I tend to get the shows on audio, but you guys got to check out the visuals because that hairstyle is just beyond belief. She went to the same Lego shop. Yeah, she went to the same Lego shop as James Talarico went where they get the full hair pieces and you just snap them on to the top of your head. That's how she got that it's just perfect. Every single strand is in perfect place. It looks like a Lego piece on her head. She was getting paid a fortune to do this, by the way. And just, you know, she's not even there. Like she was getting paid hundreds of. I think was like, almost like $1 million was her pay for. To oversee this monstrosity. But it is. It is very. If to make a serious point there, there is a huge reconquista movement in this country where they're trying to act like America is not a legitimate country. We don't really have a right to exist. And we're just invaders of the American, of the native Americans, of the Mexican people who are here in the West Coast. And that is something that we got to nip that in the bud. That should not be common language that's used.
- [45:01]
Blake
Well, that's a whole California project.
- [45:03]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
I just checked. $740,000 a year to build the. At least the second ugliest building in America.
- [45:10]
Blake
Yeah. And the whole press tour that they're doing is just really offensive. So this, this one is. I just. I was shocked at this. The lack of self awareness. Self awareness. Check. Michelle Obama.
- [45:22]
Michael Knowles
SOP 50 One word to describe your next chapter.
- [45:25]
Blake
One word.
- [45:27]
Poll/Statistic Narrator or Additional Commentator
Fun.
- [45:30]
Michael Knowles
Me.
- [45:33]
Blake
That's what you call. Drop the mic. Drop the mic.
- [45:38]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Say a prayer for Barry.
- [45:39]
Blake
Big mic.
- [45:40]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Say a prayer for Barry. There. Michelle Obama's gonna be wearing the pants in the relationship now. You might say that she is now the man in the relationship.
- [45:49]
Alex Marlow
Shout out, Big Mike.
- [45:50]
Poll/Statistic Narrator or Additional Commentator
Shout out.
- [45:50]
Alex Marlow
But you gotta shout it out. But first of all, the last thing people need is more me. We are in a very me age. It's not going great. A lot of mental health issues, people focus too much on me. Also noteworthy, she was in charge of school lunches for our kids and had to get the fat shot herself. Pretty wild. And I don't know if you got that clip of Barack Obama talking, lamenting about how people are chasing money and online clout. The ultimate thirsty guy. The thirstiest boy in America is. Barack Obama. Just had no track record, needed to be president for who knows what reason. These people are completely out of touch
- [46:23]
Blake
with the public and increasingly so. Their Martha's Vineyard lifestyle has really not helped them connect with the everyday man.
- [46:35]
Alex Marlow
Michelle Obama is a man.
- [46:39]
Blake
Am I right, America? Yeah. Just had to. You know, I've never been like, big on the whole Big Mike thing. It's just. It's not my style really. Alex. But to see how triggered everybody got about this, it just. It's too good. I have to. I have to keep playing that clip because it was a silly moment. And everybody's like, oh, you disgraced the White House. No. Outrageous. When, you know, some tranny's shaking his fake tatas, you know, topless at the White House. And then you got Biden saying that it's a sacred, sacred space. Come on.
- [47:19]
Alex Marlow
Yeah, of course. And then who is the guy who's having gay sex at the. One of the briefing rooms or whatever it was. It's just this stuff goes in and out of your head because it happened all the time. And yes, once the guy with the brass pulled his fake brass out on the White House lawn, then that was it. Remember Obama? I'm sorry, Biden had a flag violation where he was promoting the cuck flag, which is what I'm calling the pride flag. Now he's promoting the cuck flag in a more favorable spot, the American flag. All this stuff, I don't even have a committed memory because it's just stuff that just happened all the time. And it's not. We took it as just. That's just how the world is now is just the Biden administration constantly desecrating the White House. It's not that bad. It was a funny joke. And I haven't interviewed the guy who said that, but I know why he's doing it. To irritate the scolds and the people who have no sense of humor. And he got what he wanted.
- [48:13]
Blake
He tweeted about it. He said, no outrage when you say Melania Trump is an escort. No outrage when you say Charlie Kirk brought death upon himself or Charlie deserved to die. So kiss my. You know what, everyone, that was from Josh Hokut, the guy who said that very colorful line about Michelle Obama.
- [48:33]
Alex Marlow
So, guys, remember, you guys remember when Kimmel was joking that Melania had widower energy. Remember? I'm sorry, she had widow energy.
- [48:44]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Expectant widow.
- [48:45]
Blake
An expectant widow.
- [48:46]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
The glow of an expectant widow.
- [48:47]
Alex Marlow
She was an expectant widow. None of us have ever said that Michelle Obama has widower energy. Okay. None of us have ever said that. Okay. I did just say it, though.
- [48:57]
Blake
That just.
- [48:57]
Alex Marlow
Just. I'm just saying.
- [48:58]
Blake
I mean, you're spicy. You woke up and you chose. You chose spice. I like it. Okay, I gotta get into this, though, because I want our audience to be aware of this other story that's going on. So President Trump started playing some hardball. Now, we are not in favor of warrantless spying on Americans. FISA702. It's never been something we're good. We're on the Mike Lee train here in a big way. He's trying to get Save America act passed. So President Trump ties. He said, I will not sign your FISA bill, Senate Republicans, if you don't sign. If you don't also pass the Save America Act. Mike Lee is pushing again for this talking filibuster basically where you could just debate it till it passes. He said, don't do it all the time, Just do it with this. I actually love that President Trump is playing some hard nosed politics here and tying something that the Senate GOP wants to what American people want, which is widely popular, wildly popular as well. And here's the other point of this. Thune has come out now and revealed to, I guess Axios has admitted that some of the GOP Senate hates Trump so much that they will not pass the Save America Act. They will do it despite him.
- [50:16]
Alex Marlow
Yeah, I think at a minimum we need all those people announced to the public so they become household names. So people like Turning Point Action have a very clear directives on who are the people who are causing problems for Republicans, for conservatives, for Trump's movement. I think getting those people out there on record that they're interfering with this obvious necessary thing. Save America act, super important. And then there's a backdoor chance that the strategy actually works and we're able to pull stuff off. There's a couple of steps got to take place. We get a couple more Republicans to come around and we got to blow up the filibuster. Which I wasn't for it until actually Scott Bessant sort of talked me into it last year saying that there's just no way to get stuff through unless we do this. And we know the Democrats have designs on not only blowing up the filibuster if they get into power, that they would. They want to jail all of us. They want to arrest everyone that they possibly can. They want to pack the Supreme Court. Buttigieg was talking about making it 13 Supreme Court justices. They're gonna do all sorts of different stuff. So we need to do use the power. We got to get as much done as we can.
- [51:18]
Blake
I love that. I'm actually gonna, I'm gonna take that and run with it. I wanna know the names the best. Listen, JD Vance was asked about this actually in the White House presser this morning. He said give it a chance. At least give it a try. Like put it. Just do what Mike Lee's asking you to do. Make them debate it, make them go on record and if there are GOP senators that are politically insane enough to go against the president, to go against 81% of Americans and fight this, we need their names because, yeah, we will get involved.
- [51:52]
Charlie Kirk
That's right.
- [51:52]
Blake
Turning Point action will be deployed to primary you. I'm sure there'll be a lot of other groups, too. So go on record. If you hate Trump so much that you're willing to do something against the interests of the American people, because just to spite him, I want to know names. And I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to get in a democracy.
- [52:10]
Alex Marlow
Right, Perfectly reasonable. And we're. Look, this is the Charlie Kirk Show. We are announcing. The intentions are if you're going to interfere with this, then you're going to have to get primaried and you're going to have to get challenged. And it might not work everywhere, it might not work in Maine with Susan Collins, but that needs to be the point that is made, that the base of the conservative movement of Charlie was. Charlie understood better than anyone, does not like people who hold up basic things that can save the country. That's why it's the Save America Act. It's not unintentional. That was the name. The stakes are that high. And so we're being polite. This is a. We're not going to war with you physically. It's just we don't want you to be a representative in our Senate.
- [52:47]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
And it's not even just the SAVE act, it's just things like nominations. There's thousands, hundreds, thousands of posts that need to be filled. A lot of them I've been checking, for example, a lot of our major ambassadorships, someone got nominated March, April, even earlier. No one's confirmed. There's a lot of other positions that have nominees, judges. We might lose the Senate in November. There should not be a single position in this administration that has a person nominated for it. When November rolls around, every single one of them should be confirmed, period. You are a Republican Senate. You exist to confirm nominees by a Republican president. There shouldn't be any waiting around. We're. We're two years into this.
- [53:30]
Blake
Yeah.
- [53:30]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
What are you doing?
- [53:31]
Blake
Thune has been. I mean, I give him very low marks. Very, very low.
- [53:36]
Alex Marlow
It's an impossible job. You're negotiating with the biggest egomaniacs on Earth, Thome Tillis, who just put his middle finger up all the time so he's more time to get back to running his dog parades that he does. These people are impossible. I'm sympathetic to Thune in that way, but he did Take the job. And this is the job. That is his job. It is. It's the proverbial. You had one job. It's getting these guys to come to the table and to get stuff done the public wants.
- [54:00]
Blake
Yeah, and stay in town. And stay in town. Work, work. Show us that you're dedicated to this, the only success here. And this is what I think. Rick Scott would have been phenomenal at this. Rick Scott would have gone in there and not tried to sit on the fence. And everybody's sort of ambiguous. Are you with us? Are you against us?
- [54:17]
Poll/Statistic Narrator or Additional Commentator
No.
- [54:17]
Blake
Rick Scott would have been like, here's what we are doing.
- [54:20]
Poll/Statistic Narrator or Additional Commentator
And.
- [54:20]
Blake
And we would have had clarity, if not agreement. We would have known exactly who the bad guys were.
- [54:25]
Alex Marlow
He can talk to all sides. That's one of his strengths. Scott's strength. He can talk to the establishment. He can talk to the Breitbart wing of the party.
- [54:30]
Blake
Yep. Alex Marlowe. The Alex Marlowe show on the. The hour before he joins us. We get him right after he gets off. So check that out. Check out his podcast and of course, check out Breitbart News. Thank you so much, Alex. We'll talk to you soon.
- [54:44]
Alex Marlow
Thanks. Love you guys.
- [54:45]
Blake
All right, right back at you, man. Good. Conversation is about respect. It's how we create a space where people are able to share their ideas and be heard. Charlie knew that. Turning Point still knows that. And TikTok has always strived to build the kind of place that thrives on respectful connection, where curiosity fuels connection, and we can share what's on our minds and learn from each other. When ideas meet respect, good things happen. On TikTok, you can find a mechanic explaining the why behind a problem most of us wouldn't even know how to name. Or a father sharing a lifetime of knowledge with his viewers. Viewers who listen, discuss, and then they respond. TikTok turns connection into community through small acts of understanding. You can feel it in the comments, in the thank you from a stranger halfway across the world. TikTok is a place where respect opens the door for discussion and discussion helps us build something real.
- [55:38]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Well, we're turning back to the UK as we sometimes call it, Britain. It's a country we care a lot about.
- [55:45]
Blake
They won their World cup match. They did.
- [55:47]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
They won their World cup match. They're very happy about that, I guess.
- [55:51]
Blake
Four to two against Croatia.
- [55:53]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Croatia. Croatia. But there's a lot of problems in Britain. We care about Britain. It is our mother country. It's where we got so many of the rights we care about. The traditions we care about. And they've been headed in a bad direction thanks to immigration and a whole bunch of other things. And the biggest symbol of this, which we've highlighted repeatedly, is the grooming gang scandal that for years, in towns and cities across Britain, girls, native British girls, were being groomed, sexually assaulted, raped, trafficked. Working class white girls, working class white girls by heavily immigrant, mostly Pakistani gangs. The police often knew about this, did nothing. And it's gone viral again and again and it's going viral right now because there is a new report on the grooming gangs went tremendously viral on X and we want to get some perspective on it. So we're joined by Adam Wren, he's the head of Open justice uk. Adam, welcome to the show.
- [56:53]
Adam Wren
A pleasure to be here again.
- [56:55]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
All right, now, so you were commenting on this. A lot of the details in this report have been getting a lot of attention. They're describing gang rapes, they're describing some absolutely wild trafficking. But you're saying there's some worthwhile perspective on this because this is not an official government report, correct, Adam?
- [57:13]
Adam Wren
No, that's correct. It was crowdfunded and it was carried out independently. So the people that have been interviewed for the report are people that have come forward to be interviewed for doesn't have access to government data, which is, you know, the most unfortunate thing. One of the main things that's come out of the report is this 250k number. It stated, you know, with certainty that 250, 000 girls have been abused. And the, you know, the unfortunate truth is we, we don't know how many girls have been abused because, you know, the police weren't investigating the crimes, they were letting people get away with it. And a lot of the girls died or were killed and it's been going on for so long. I mean, the estimations range from the low ten thousands to there was one Labour MP that estimated it might be up to a million. We just don't know.
- [58:08]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
And that's the key thing, we don't know. And you were flagging this, not to downplay anything in the report, but precisely because describe for our audience, because I think it's so hard for Americans to grasp what happened in Britain over the span of that grooming scandal where the working class aspect of this, the class dynamics played a role, where for years they were dismissive of this, they did ignore this, give our viewers a primer on just what they were doing, what the police and lawmakers were doing during this period where this was Unfolding.
- [58:39]
Adam Wren
Yeah. So, I mean, the girls would go to the police and they would be ignored, they would be sent home. We have some examples of the police being called to a house that would have, you know, multiple men in it. 5, 6, 7, 10 men. And the police would remove the girl from the house and then drive her back to the house later on. There was one case with a survivor we worked with called Fiona, where the police officer allegedly drove her back to the house and then told the men to have fun with her after checking her ID. And apparently he checked her ID and thought she was over 18. She was, I think 17 at the time. So he said, oh, it's perfectly legal, you can do what you want with her.
- [59:18]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
And there's a, there's an allegation in this report, for example, that the police arrived and this girl was claiming abuse and they dismissed it because she was apparently 12 years old and they thought, oh, she's just a prostitute. And then.
- [59:31]
Blake
12?
- [59:31]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Yeah, 12 years old. It's just a child prostitute, you know, ply in her trade. And they were asking, is this consensual? And apparently she said she did not know what consensual meant, that she didn't know the vocabulary word. There's so many accounts like this, and even if this is not an official government report, a lot of these allegations, they ring true, don't they?
- [59:55]
Adam Wren
Yeah, I mean, absolutely. And it raises so many questions. You know, the age of consent is 16 over here for people of a. We have like Romeo and Juliet laws where, you know, so a 17 year old and a 16 year old aren't prosecuted for being in a relationship. But there's, there's. In no world should a police officer find a girl of, you know, 15, 16 or 12 in a house with men 30 years, 40 years older than her and not immediately think this is at least statutory rape. Like, even, even if they, even if they're under some, even, even prostitution is, is not legal. Right. So the fact that they would dismiss it as just prostitution, that's something they're supposed to investigate and arrest. It makes it, the entire thing is baffling it genuinely. It's. I think it's really hard for people, even people over here, to wrap their heads around.
- [60:43]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
So why is it happening? Why are police behaving in this way? Is this, are they being told to do this because they're, for lack of a better term, lefties? Are they doing this because they've hired people from these communities and they basically will side with these immigrant groups that are perpetrating these crimes. How are you getting this dynamic with
- [61:05]
Blake
police because of race action plan?
- [61:07]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Yeah, I just, I just don't understand. As an American, we have our imperfect police at times, but this is so difficult for us to fathom. So how is it happening? How is it coming about in a country that's a lot like us in many ways?
- [61:19]
Adam Wren
I think, I mean there are multiple reasons. There's, I think that, you know, our police committed to anti racism and so they're very afraid. They have a lot of internal mechanisms for police officers that are accused of racism, something that individual officers are afraid of. There are some cases of officers being convicted for being involved and those are officers from those communities. And I think there's also, you know, a classism element where these girls were, you know, working class, they were from, they were from bad homes. You know, they, they didn't have a mother or a father. They weren't present. They were in care. Many of them were actually looked after by the state. So they were living in state run care homes presence. You know, the parents weren't present in the picture at all. And there was just this perception of them being, you know, wild and worthless.
- [62:15]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Wild and worthless. That's astonishing.
- [62:18]
Blake
Yeah, I have a. So there was a report here, I saw it from CRE MOO and I wanted to fact check it with you. He highlights it in red here. It says, while Sir Keir Starmer was the Director of Public Prosecutions, it has been reported that 13,000 suspected rape gang members and pedophiles were let off with warning letters. And it goes on to implicate Mayor of London Sadiq Khan repeatedly insisted there were no grooming gangs. This feels like an abject betrayal of the British people by the now Prime Minister and the Mayor of London. Is this true?
- [62:55]
Adam Wren
Yeah, I imagine the stat is correct. I think what it's referring to is we have something called like a corn notice, which is basically a child abduction notice. And this, this, you know, might sound insane, it sounded insane to me when I first learned of their existence, but we actually issue basically warning letters to some of these gang rapists saying that, you know, this child isn't allowed to be in their presence. So I, I'm, I'm not, I'm not sure where they found the stat that those were all issued to rape gang members. But I, I, the, the existence of those, those warning letters and the amount of them, yeah, it's probably about right. It is insane.
- [63:38]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
So this is a discussion we've had offline or online before. You've Told me part of what's driving this. You say there's this ideology that's infected the police where instead of their number one priority being punish criminals, they feel they have this mandate above all, prevent riots, manage communities. It's almost like they're, it's like they're occupying a foreign country and their job is to just keep a lid on things. Is that a fair characterization? They're not investigating these things.
- [64:08]
Blake
They're quelling the, the, the passions of the native inhabitants.
- [64:12]
Adam Wren
Yeah, yeah, there's, there's also, the police are just, for whatever reason, it might not even necessarily be a racial angle angle. They're just very, very interested in pursuing things that they term as, as hate crimes and not really that interested in other things. So I have a friend recently that told me he was in London, he was walking down the road and some kids, some teenagers basically run up to him and like practically pushed him off his bike. So he called the police and the police, you know, didn't care at all until he said that one of the kids shouted and called him. I don't know if I can say it, they called him the F word. And then suddenly the police like leapt into action and they were like, oh, you know, did that, did that upset you? Like, you know, are you, you know, are you, are you a member of, of that community? And they were suddenly interested in, you know, turning up and maybe arresting these kids because a perceived hate crime has taken place.
- [65:03]
Blake
Well, there must be some sort of permission structure that exists at some level within the bureaucracy where they get a pat on the back, they get a little cookie for prosecuting a hate crime or, you know, arresting somebody guilty of using a bad word. It's gotta be structural. This has to be baked in throughout the bureaucracy because. But they seem to have lost their damn minds is what it feels like from the outside.
- [65:28]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
So we wanted to have you on, Adam, because we mentioned it's incredibly viral in the US I've seen people pointing out that in Britain you have no ban on a bill of attainder, so your parliament could theoretically publish or publish, punish a lot of people who greatly deserve punishment over this. But that speaks to the bigger reality, which is there's a huge surge in public anger in Britain. We also saw this with the Henry Novak case, where suddenly major politicians, they're talking about two tier policing, they're talking about who really is an Englishman, a British person.
- [66:06]
Blake
Remigration.
- [66:08]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
They're talking about remigration. Is this, do you think we're on the brink of for lack Of a better term, a political revolution in Britain that will undo the trajectory of your country.
- [66:20]
Adam Wren
I think we're definitely trending in the right direction. There's a. A friend of mine, a reporter at GB News, Charlie Peters, who. Who recently uncovered that the Essex police force, an internal document, had actually used the phrase, you know, unprotected groups when referring to basically native people, which, you know, got a lot of attention, you know, in comparison to all the protected groups. There's definitely a lot more awareness of this stuff and there's a lot more public calls for a lot of these laws to be outright scrapped. And the public anger is becoming very palpable, put it that way. Yeah.
- [67:00]
Blake
I have a question for you. You know, I've been having conversations with Brits quite a bit lately, and a common theme comes up, and that is that a lot of this, you could trace it back to Tony Blair, which I was not aware of. I wasn't really paying attention. When Tony Blair was Prime Minister, he
- [67:16]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
basically rewrote the British constitution to a dramatic degree.
- [67:22]
Blake
Yeah, I mean, we didn't really prep you on that one, Adam, so, you know, feel free to defer or sidestep. But is that something that people are coming to grips with? Is there a reckoning with some of the. This, like, slow malaise of. Of liberal excess that started with Tony Blair?
- [67:39]
Adam Wren
Yeah, I mean, there is, you know, he, he. He gave us a lot of the rot really started here with things like the Equality act, which, you know, while it sounds nice, who doesn't like equality? It entrenches, you know, what we call positive discrimination into the workplace, into the police forces. And it's, it's an enormous piece of documentation. It's like 300 pages long. And it's become, you know, it's doing all kinds of things. You know, we have people being dismissed from the. From the workforce. It's just, there's. There's a lot of. There's a lot of legislation that they put into place, I think, knowing perhaps that they were going to lose power. But if they transform the institutions, even if they're not, you know, in government, they're still in control. As long as. As long as they're not repealed, nothing will ever change. Nothing really. There's no revolution without repeal, I'd say.
- [68:37]
Blake
Now, are the two political parties on the right now? You got reform and you got restore. Are they actively talking about reforming this Equality act or any of this legislation? Is that part of the platform, actively trying to address those issues?
- [68:53]
Adam Wren
They are, yeah. The difficulty is that the Equality act is so big and so old, it's been added to and modified so many times that it was, you know, it's the genesis of, you know, equal pay for equal work, which came about, you know, a long, long time ago, I think, like 1917 or something like this. You know, it's. It's how men and women are guaranteed equal pay. So it's not this thing that you can just repeal and get rid of. There are obviously parts of it that, you know, we like and we think are good. So it's really quite a technical task of. Of combing through it and trying to amend it so that it's not so poisonous. It's worse than you guys probably even know. We have a city over here called Birmingham, and it's actually bankrupt because our judges have ruled that council workers and bin men should be paid the same. And the. The bin men ended up basically going on strike. So the city is now filled with trash, as you would say.
- [69:56]
Blake
Bin men would be trash collectors, in our parlance. Here. Throw this up. I want to throw this poll up. This is a parent. I'm told this is the most recent polling between Labor, Reform and Restore and I guess Conservative, Green, Lib Dem and others. Right.
- [70:13]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
This is a by election. That's a big. They're actually trying to replace Keir Starmer. Right, with this guy who's running there.
- [70:19]
Blake
Exactly. So explain what to the audience. What we're looking at. We have about a minute and a half left here, Adam.
- [70:24]
Adam Wren
Yes. So we have a Labor MP running against Starmer. We have Reform running against Starmer, and we have Restore basically wanting to replace Reform. So Restore a little to the right of Reform and thereby an MP that was kicked out of the party and is now disgruntled. He doesn't think they're going far enough or that they're serious enough.
- [70:44]
Blake
Low.
- [70:46]
Adam Wren
Yeah. All this. This demonstrates really, is that everybody's unhappy with Starmer. Even the Labor MP running is running on a platform of, you know, if you elect me, I'll be Prime minister instead.
- [70:55]
Blake
Wow. Interesting. When is that? When is the election happening?
- [70:58]
Adam Wren
Is today. Is today. And I'll be announced.
- [71:00]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Yes. So those results by the end of this afternoon. That's incredible.
- [71:05]
Adam Wren
But.
- [71:05]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
So it's speaking to it. I mean, for those who can't see the chart, it Is reform is 5 below labor, but restore is 7. So it seems clear we need to find a way for Restore and Reform to unite.
- [71:18]
Blake
Is that possible?
- [71:18]
Co-host (possibly a commentator or analyst)
Or can that happen or otherwise, are they going to be unable to save their country.
- [71:22]
Adam Wren
There's so much bad blood. I don't think it is. What's interesting is some RESTORE voters might actually be coming from Labor. There has been some we will know after this election. But it's, it's, it might not be the case that RESTORE voters are just disgruntled reform voters. They might be labor voters and they might be, if you remember Trump's the most recent presidential election. It was so powerful because they motivated a lot of people that never voted before. That might be the case here.
- [71:51]
Blake
Fascinating. Well, we're gonna watch then and probably talk about it tomorrow. Adam Wren, thank you so much for explaining all of that to us. And we really do wish the best for the UK we want the UK to get its mojo back. It's well past time. Thank you.
- [72:10]
Adam Wren
For more on many of these stories
- [72:11]
Alex Marlow
and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.