Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing: Day 2

Summary

The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: Tyler Robinson Preliminary Hearing: Day 2
Date: July 7, 2026
Host: Charlie Kirk

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show offers a detailed breakdown of the high-profile preliminary hearing in the State of Utah v. Tyler Robinson, focusing on the second day of proceedings. Charlie and his panel (including legal experts Wilt Chamberlain and Jay Town) analyze fresh video evidence, courtroom tactics, and legal maneuvering as the prosecution seeks to prove Tyler Robinson's guilt in the assassination of Charlie Kirk. The episode delves into the courtroom drama, key evidentiary moments, and the prosecution's argument for "victim targeting" enhancements to support a potential death penalty.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Critical New Evidence: Campus Surveillance Video

[01:17–05:35]

• A pivotal moment occurs as the court allows the release of a compilation video tracking Tyler Robinson on the UVU campus multiple times, including right before and after the shooting.
• Blake: “Our jaws dropped... It was a really, really powerful moment that the judge allowed that to be seen by the media.” [01:19]
• The prosecution presents raw surveillance footage showing Robinson’s movements without “John Madden style” editing; the judge withholds the annotated version for private review.
• Legal analyst Wilt Chamberlain says, “We're finally getting evidence that we've heard for months exists and we're finally getting to see it.” [02:02]
• The video shows Robinson visiting campus four times: once a week before, three times the day of the shooting; includes a “limp” walk and a rooftop climb.

2. Identification and Behavior of the Suspect

[04:46–12:31]

• Key Observations:
  • Robinson changes clothes—from shorts in the morning to long pants before the shooting—but keeps the same shoes.
  • Exhibits a pronounced limp—suspected to be from concealing a weapon.
  • Video shows Robinson rolling, not climbing, over the rooftop railing due to restricted leg mobility.
  • After the shot, Robinson flees the rooftop, becomes suddenly more mobile, consistent with a discarded weapon.

Notable Quotes:

• Wilt Chamberlain: “It’s extremely compelling...combination of evidence... clearly there’s something in his pants and that is a gun.” [09:15]
• Blake: “We have him immediately jumping off after 12:23 when we know Charlie was shot and then runs off the rooftop and throws something down on the ground.” [41:51]

3. Timeline and Forensic Match

[10:55–13:34]

• The timestamped footage aligns exactly with the time of the shooting (12:23 PM).
• Surveillance captures Robinson prone on the roof, then fleeing immediately after the fatal shot.

Memorable Moment:

• C: “The guy with the limp suddenly became a lot more mobile right there, right after 12:23 and 28, which is, as we all know, the moment.” [13:34]

4. Defense Tactics and Cross-Examination

[15:57–21:49]

• The defense, led by Kathy Nester, attempts to raise doubts about:
  • Reliability of ring camera footage.
  • Absence of bullet casing on the roof (addressed by noting it was a bolt-action rifle).
  • Procedures regarding evidence custody and handling.
• Attempts to suggest Robinson turned himself in due to coercion or other reasons.

Panel Commentary:

• Blake: “The defense themselves is admitting that Tyler Robinson turned himself in. So, you know, what would compel him to do that besides being guilty of the alleged crime?” [17:47]
• C: “They're really making a lot of objections and I know some people are freaking out about them. Remember, Tyler Robinson is constitutionally entitled to a defense. And...they have a pretty tough job.” [22:01]

5. Underlying Motive & Death Penalty “Enhancements”

[31:11–39:41]

• The prosecution introduces a letter from Pastor/Lawyer David Engelhardt to establish “victim targeting enhancement”—showing Robinson’s alleged motive was Kirk’s political beliefs, which supports a death penalty charge.
• The judge allows selective referencing but not wholesale reading of the letter and denies a closed hearing.
• Judge Graff: “If that was not here, this, this enhancement... victim targeting enhancement… becomes relevant now trying to determine what is political expression versus religious expression.” [36:48]

Text Message Evidence:

• Exchange between Robinson and Lance Twiggs introduced as motive evidence:
  • “I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out.” [36:24]

6. Legal Analysis and Jury Appeal

[27:40–29:49]

• Jay Town (former US Attorney):
  • Emphasizes the importance of visual evidence for juries: “Juries love that stuff...they want to be absolutely certain, which is not the legal standard. But to be able to timestamp him...those videos—juries love that stuff.” [27:51]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Wilt Chamberlain: “Those who were skeptical were making a mistake...assuming only the evidence that had been shown within 48 hours...that was going to be the only evidence.” [03:45]
• Charlie/Panel: “It's like watching...the medieval tea ceremony in Japan, just something that could be done in 10 seconds and it's going to take all day.” [41:01]
• Judge Graff: “[The need for a closed hearing] is not been met at this point...This becomes relevant now trying to determine what is political expression versus religious expression.” [36:48]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:17] – Introduction to Day 2 and surveillance video revelation
• [03:19] – Legal analysis of video evidence and its impact
• [04:46] – Breakdown of clothing, limp, and behavioral evidence
• [10:55] – Synchronization of video with the time of shooting
• [13:34] – Post-shooting footage of Robinson’s escape
• [17:27] – Panel dissects defense strategies, focus on Robinson’s surrender
• [31:11] – Motive enhancement: Religious/political targeting arguments
• [36:48] – Judge Graff’s explanation on enhancement and admissibility

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Summary of Case Progress

• Key Evidence Admitted: Video footage tracking Robinson’s movements on the day of the shooting, including timeline synchronization with the fatal shot.
• Defense Approach: Raising objections to forensic gaps, video interpretations, and questioning motive and process.
• Motive Evidence: Prosecution focusing on Robinson’s statements and relationships to establish political animus and support for death penalty enhancements.
• Judicial Rulings: Judge Graff allows selective discussion of motive evidence and continues to caution against procedural errors.
• Jury Considerations: Visual, timestamped evidence and defendant's surrender are expected to weigh heavily at trial.

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Looking Ahead

• Multiple witnesses and further forensic evidence are expected in subsequent hearings.
• The schedule anticipates continued testimony, especially on forensic findings and the detailed timeline of Robinson’s surrender.
• A day three recap promised for the following episode, continuing daily coverage.

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Charlie’s Closing:
“We want justice for Charlie. That is what we want more than anything. We want to see the justice system play out...he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. That's the way our justice system works. And we love that...we're gonna follow this beat by beat, day by day, evidence exhibit by exhibit.” [44:03]

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

all right. Hey, everybody. We are here in studio. We're monitoring the second day of the preliminary hearing in the state of Utah versus Tyler Robinson. A huge, huge moment just happened where the compilation video of Tyler Robinson visiting UVU campus four times. Blake and I were watching it. Our jaws dropped. When you're looking at the time that, you know, Charlie was shot and the time that this individual went up on campus and they track him, you know, in the parking garage, across the different areas of campus, up under the roof. It was a really, really powerful moment that the judge allowed that to be seen by the media. There was a back and forth between the media and the defense and the prosecution of the defense.

[C]

We're finally getting evidence that we've heard for months exists and we're finally getting to see it.

[B]

So. And now there is a sort of John Madden style video where they're zooming in and putting circle marks where they want you to kind of see the suspect walking on campus and wherever else. And so the judge now has not allowed the John Madden style video seen to be seen by the public, but he's reviewing it right now. So we're gonna throw back into the courtroom again, a very, very powerful moment that just happened. When we hit breaks, we have guests standing by that are gonna help us chime in. We got Wilt Chamberlain, Jay Towne, both lawyers, and both gonna help us break down what they've seen. So stand by for that. And we're gonna just take the courtroom until the next break. All right, welcome back, everybody. Like I said, said briefly when we started the hour, really huge morning in court. And just to kind of go back in time, why don't we bring in Will Chamberlain here, Article three project and lawyer himself. Will, welcome to the show. Thanks for being on standby with us this morning. That was a continuation this morning with that same witness.

[D]

They had blocked the judge, had blocked

[B]

the sort of John Madden style video from being submitted as evidence and being

[D]

broadcast to the public.

[B]

The state, the prosecution in this instance went back and got the raw and showed a compilation of the RAW video without any zoom ins. The judge allowed that to be broadcast. What did you see when. In what I believe is the most powerful moment of evidence so far in the case.

[E]

Well, I mean, it seems pretty clear they have him dead to rights on the fact that he was there, you know, four times in, in a little over, you know. Well, I guess once a week before and the three times day of. And I mean, the fact that they have him there, you know, in the morning and then they have him there right before the shooting and then you have the video obviously a little smaller with the, the person who's moving towards him. But it's, I mean, it's pretty clearly Robinson too. This is, I mean, extremely compelling video evidence. And obviously this is not going to be the end of it. Right. You know, the video evidence alone is damning, but we've got all the, you know, physical and forensic evidence too. So I think those who were, I think the big mistake that maybe those who were skeptical were making was assuming that only the evidence that had been shown within 48 hours of the shooting that was used to identify and apprehend Robinson. But that was going to be the only evidence that the prosecution was able to present. And that's certainly clearly not the case. Even after just this brief moment here.

[B]

Yeah, and Blake, I, you know, I was sitting next to Blake when this happened. But there was also the moment when you see him coming down, he's changed clothes. It's obviously the moments leading up to the actual shop being fired. And he's got that, he's got long pants. Now, the first video in that morning, he was wearing shorts, but the same shoes. Then he's got pants and he's got

[C]

this, he can't walk, he's got, he's basically limping along or shuffle, whatever the term is. He clearly can't bend his right leg more than a few degrees. He's sort of staggering up the steps. And they even say in one of the videos when this person gets on the roof, they say he rolls over the railing. He doesn't really clamor over it. He kind of has to roll himself over it to get onto the rooftop.

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[B]

All right, welcome back, everybody. So much was made. And we've Got Wilt Chamberlain Article 3 project joining us as well. Well, to help break this down, so I'm going to play this video, which again, we were all watching it together in the bullpen out here. And when you see Tyler Robinson walking with this gate, this limp, I found it to be one of the most compelling moments. And then the next piece in the compilation, we all know we have the time stamp in our head. 12:23. That's when Charlie was killed. 12:23. And you're looking at the timestamp on the video as he's going up onto the roof. I mean, this is extraordinarily compelling. Go ahead and play. Cut four.

[F]

This is a video of Mr. Robinson returning back to campus the same way that he did previously on foot.

[G]

You believe this is Mr. Robinson returning to campus?

[F]

I do, yes.

[G]

Okay. And what do you believe is Mr. Robinson.

[F]

The shoes are the same. And the images that we have are from my viewing and seeing Mr. Robinson on the video. It's the same person.

[G]

He's noticeably wearing different clothing.

[F]

He is wearing different clothing and he also is walking with a gate or a limp in this video.

[G]

With a gate or What?

[F]

Limp, says Mr. Robinson coming up the stairs of the parking structure. Again, he seems to be having issues walking.

[G]

And again, we're able to track. So we're able to track Mr. Robinson when he leaves this parking structure?

[F]

Yes, we were able to.

[B]

So that is presumably what's causing the gate, is that he has the weapon or a portion of the weapon stuffed down his pant leg. You can even see the outline. It seems. Well, how compelling is that to you? If somebody's outside of our orbit, I want to make sure. I want to be totally dispassionate here and just balls and strikes. How compelling of evidence is that?

[E]

It's extremely compelling. Right. They have video of him walking normally and running like normally afterwards is my understanding. That doesn't make sense. Unless. And especially the fact that the timing is happening right before the shooting. Like, why is this person walking like that if he's not carrying a rifle or I'm sorry, the barrel of a rifle in his pants. That. And again, I mean the, the fact, again, it's the timing and the combination of evidence here. Like obviously he's trying, you know, he's now wearing different clothing, in sunglasses and a baseball cap, trying to hide and change the appearance of his identity and with this bizarre physical gait, you know, and it's like he's not, I mean, think about it. Here's another way to think about it, right? Like say he, this was just some random person who was injured. Well, you know, theoretically. Then then why isn't he on crutches? Why isn't he have something that'll assist in his mobility? You know, one of those little leg scooters everybody has. Like, no, this is, I mean there's a lot. None of this makes sense and is easily explicable, like to, to a normal person. Like clearly there's something in, in his pants and that is a gun.

[C]

And as he said there they're saying, how do you know it's Tyler Robinson? And first he says basically the same shape of person as they had earlier. And he said they had the same shoes. So changed his shirt, changed out of his shorts to get into his, you know, basically long sleeve, long pants so you can hide stuff under your clothes, but still has the same shoes, wearing sunglasses, otherwise the same shape person. And of course, as we know, he then walks to the roof of that student center, gets onto It.

[B]

We have this, and I think this is the clip where you can see the timestamp. Again, all of us know Charlie was killed at 12:23. We like, we'll never get that number out of our head. All right, and so to watch the timestamp of the video and you watch him get up there, it's very compelling. Let's just say that SOP 5.

[G]

And what time is this?

[F]

It's just after noon, about 12:15.

[G]

On what day?

[F]

On December. Sorry, December. September 10, 2025.

[E]

What.

[G]

What just happened or what did we just see happen?

[F]

The individual actually kind of rolls over the railing onto the roof of the LOSI building.

[G]

All right.

[F]

And again in the top left corner, the individual is now seen running across the rooftop of the Loci building to what would be the southwest corner of the building, crouching down and then crawling to the corner of the building.

[G]

Can you still see that individual?

[F]

Yes, you can. Laying prone.

[B]

Laying prone. And then got another clip here. Will, but just highlight what you said, the rollover. Because again, he's got the gate something stuffed down his pants.

[E]

He's.

[B]

He's not walking normal. So he kind of rolls over.

[C]

Can't stick his leg over the normal

[B]

way to get onto the low C building there. And then here's the next clip in the sequence of him then fleeing the roof. SOT 6.

[G]

You believe this to be Mr. Robinson?

[F]

I'm sorry?

[G]

You believe this to be Mr. Robin?

[F]

I do, yes.

[G]

And how long is he out there on the edge of the building?

[F]

Just until the. The reported shot was fired at 12, 23 and 28. Individual then stands up and then moves across the building to the north.

[G]

Is that what we're seeing happening right now?

[F]

It is, yes. They move behind the atrium area on the rooftop to the northeast corner where the white triangle is.

[G]

Do you see Mr. Robertson now?

[F]

I do, yes. He's just arriving at the corner of the building, the almost top center of the image. What are we seeing now, Mr. Robinson lowering and jumping off of the roof of the Losey building onto the grass area and then moving away towards Campus Drive.

[C]

So the guy with the limp suddenly became a lot more mobile right there,

[B]

right after 12, 23 and 28, which is, as we all know, the moment. So. It's hard to watch, to be honest. So I don't know. Anybody else want to chime in here?

[E]

Yeah, I mean, I remember that footage. That footage, at least that little bit of security footage that was published pretty. I think that was published all the way back, 48 hours after the shooting by the FBI when they were looking for the guy and they were sort of presenting the evidence of why they thought this was the guy. Maybe it was at the apprehension. I'm not sure, but I remember that footage and I thought it was

[G]

one

[E]

of those things where once you understand that, it's like, oh, yeah, clearly it's this person, whoever, you have the timing in the background. You know, that's when the shot just happened. And then you have a guy scrambling across the roof and dropping himself down to like clearly escape. Like if he was, you know, a normal person, say just again, like, let's, let's try and construct sort of innocent explanations, right? Why is there a normal person on the roof? What would they do? Well, they wouldn't run and try and drop down 10ft. They would just go down, go back the way they came. They would walk down the stairs. If they're just a normal person going about their day and for whatever reason decided to take a brief excursion to the roof for sightseeing or something. But no, this is a person who's running.

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your friend Andrew sent you. All right, welcome back, everybody. So that was a interesting back and forth. We kind of saw some of the, I think from Kathy Nester, the defense attorney's cross examination of that witness. You know, she's obviously trying to poke holes in some of the ring camera footage, which I think is fairly, fairly flimsy. I mean, trying to remember what cars drove in front of a person's house would Be extremely difficult. And then you actually do have the ring footage, which is what it is. Right. So I don't know what. I don't know what they would make of that or if that would be compelling evidence to a judge or jury. Then you see the cross examination by the state going back kind of and reacting to some of the. Kathy Nestor's cross. And it felt like there was. He did a fairly thorough job of kind of plugging in all those holes. You know, they keep talking about this bullet casing not being found on the roof. That has been sort of dealt with as well. That if you have a bolt action rifle and you only fire one shot, it doesn't eject the casing that was found later.

[C]

The most important thing, I mean, we got that a little bit is that they established. They basically asked them, did you have any suspects before Tyler Robinson turned himself in?

[B]

Yeah, that's a very. That's a very good point.

[C]

I think they might be setting it up, as in, you didn't really deduce that it was Tyler Robinson until this happened. But the flip side of this is that's absolutely devastating to people who are claiming, oh, you. He didn't turn himself in. The weirder stuff, that he was coerced into doing this.

[B]

Yeah. And that was actually kind of the. I think, a moment that we. You could skip over and kind of not hear it. But the defense themselves is admitting that Tyler Robinson turned himself in. So, you know, what would compel him to do that besides being guilty of the crime, of the alleged crime here? I don't know what you could surmise from that. There was also this interesting moment where talking about some of the camera footage, that there were multiple angles or something.

[H]

SOT12, I wanna talk now about the TPUSA video that you got. That was the angle that was taken from behind Mr. Kirk while he was talking, looking out at the audience during when the shot was fired.

[F]

Do you remember that video, the Visual Impulse videos?

[H]

Yes.

[F]

Yes.

[H]

All right. Is it true that Visual Impulse provided four videos?

[F]

Yeah, I believe there were four total videos that encompassed everything that they provided to us.

[H]

Yes, but the one that you showed, that's only one of the four that they provided to you.

[B]

That.

[F]

That one that was shown had a Bates number. It was an item that was provided by Utah County Attorney's office.

[H]

Okay, but were there more that you haven't seen in this courtroom in this prelim that you got?

[F]

There's the original footage.

[H]

Okay, but were there other angles that are not shown here in this prelim?

[F]

Yes.

[H]

Okay. That's what I was trying to get to. Thank you.

[B]

So I don't really know what she's getting at there. All that. That video was turned over to authorities. That's why they have it. So I don't know if she's trying to get access to that or doesn't have access to that. I'm not sure what to make of that. Precisely.

[C]

It's always tough to see what they're going for, as we've established. They're really throwing every piece of spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks. They are. They're bringing up every objection they can. They're asking questions that seem weird. We even heard them ask him, did you. Were you involved in the decision to repave over where it happened? And he said, no, I only heard about that later.

[B]

Same. And through the news. He said through the news that. Through news reports, yeah. Which was the same for us. Yeah, there's a bunch there. It does seem just initial reaction, kind of the way she's going through everything. It does feel like they're just kind of trying to, I don't know, sort of poke holes, blur the vision. I think it's important then to kind of go through some of these different moments that we have here. Right. So just to recap for the audience, we've got the medical examiner's report says cause of death was a gunshot wound to the neck. Right. So no exploding mic theory. TPOSA turned over HD video footage of a visual impulse, turned over the video footage from their camera shooting. So nobody tampered with that evidence. It was turned over. The lead investigator testified that the tip came when a person, Tyler Robinson, turned himself into the Washington County Police. So he did turn himself in. That's another sort of thing that's been unclear. Access to the rooftop. We heard from that testimony that he. When he was walking with the limp, he kind of rolled over the railing. So it was the open to the public small guardrail that can be hopped over to gain entry or in this case, rollover. So you don't need to be super tall. You don't need to be super. You don't need to have like a huge vertical jump or anything like that. He rolled over it. That video is. Has been presented of that moment happening. So. So there's just that the bullet casing we talked about that bolt actions, doesn't. Doesn't eject the casing if one shot's firing. Go ahead.

[D]

You were.

[C]

I'm just thinking some of the. I'm relooking because we're getting these videos coming in. Some of the stranger objections, they, they go after the autopsy there. They ask, were you personally present there? And he says no.

[G]

So.

[C]

So you're only getting this second hand. Well, yes, that is what we're allowed to do in this preliminary hearing. We will see, you know, the medical examiner will almost presumably come in or give some kind of make some sort of appearance in the actual trial. But for now, it is enough for the police officer to say, I have seen the report and this is what it says. They're really making a lot of objections and I know some people are freaking out about them. Remember, Tyler Robinson is constitutionally entitled to a defense. And you and I both believe they have a pretty tough job to do.

[B]

Honestly, it would be a tough job. I. And kind of just hearing Nestor repeatedly say Tyler Robinson turned himself in and sort of that alone would be a really uphill battle at that point.

[C]

Ask yourself, what would you do if you were required professionally to do this?

[B]

Yeah. And so you're basically casting any doubt you can, any skepticism in any different piece of the pie and the puzzle that they've put together to try and I don't know, just inject any sort of doubt in the mind of the judge in this case because it's kind of. He's an audience of one right here. But you know, it's a preview of what the defense tactics are going to be. But yeah, just him admitting alone. So it basically.

[D]

I'll read the quote here and I

[B]

think we're getting the video as well. It says, isn't it fair to say that as of this is from Nestor, the, the defense.

[D]

Isn't it fair to say that as

[B]

of the moment that Tyler Robinson voluntarily surrendered to authorities in Washington county, as

[D]

of that moment, you all did not

[B]

know who the shooter was? Is that right? Even the framing of that. You didn't know who the shooter was. Are you admitting that this, that Tyler

[D]

Robinson is the shooter?

[C]

One thing we identified a person of interest. They didn't really explore that, I don't think.

[B]

Did they?

[C]

Was it Tyler Robinson or was it somebody else?

[B]

You mean the, the investigators, when he

[C]

says, yeah, we had a person of

[B]

interest, we had a person of interest, but we did not specifically know who the shooter was at that time. I think I read that as just. I read that as just sort of him saying that we identified that person, the suspect on the video.

[C]

That makes sense. Yes.

[B]

Yeah. Because he's saying we don't know who, that we didn't know who specifically know who the shooter was.

[C]

Okay, so Nestle, they were looking for.

[B]

Yeah, they, exactly. They, they knew the person in the videos they'd seen who they thought was the person of interest. And then Nestor says you became aware that Mr. Robinson was voluntarily surrendering. How did you become aware of that? NHL says that information came originally, I believe, from the Washington county sheriff to the administration at the control center at the university on the evening of the investigation or the second evening of the

[C]

investigation just to help people have this map in their head. Washington county is down in St. George. That's actually many hours drive away. This is in Utah County. That's where Provo and Orem are. And then Washington county is down in the southwest corner of the state, close to Nevada and Arizona. That's where Tyler Robinson is from. That's where he turned himself in. And so I just want to emphasize that point that this is a completely separate police department, sheriff's office that is bringing in this information to them.

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All right, welcome back. It appears that the preliminary hearing is still taking a break. Here we have Jay Town, career prosecutor, former U.S. attorney. You can find him on X at J Town, Alabama.

[D]

Jay, there was this obviously the back

[B]

and forth between the prosecution and the defense ultimately the judge, Tony Graff, agreed to take the non edited compilation. So he took the raw footage kind of piece by piece. We see that Tyler Robinson was on campus four times, you know, and by the way, we're looking at the timestamps of that individual that is presumed to be Tyler Robinson up on the rooftop prone right there at 12:23 when Charlie was assassinated, and then immediately runs off. And you know, we see the video with the limp. How compelling.

[D]

You've, you've argued these cases, you've, you've,

[B]

you've been a prosecutor. How compelling is that evidence? And what do you make of the defense's cross examination as well?

[I]

Yeah, so, I mean, these are big pieces. I would say that the entire puzzle is what gets you beyond reasonable doubt. And so when you, when you take the, you know, what juries want to do is they want to be certain, especially in a death penalty case, if death is to be awarded. They, beyond a reasonable doubt is the legal standard, but they want to be absolutely certain, which is not the legal standard. But to be able to timestamp him, to be able to have his parents recognize him in those videos that, you know, there he is walking, coming in, going out, those videos. Juries love that stuff. And I'm not talking about the judge. We're way past probable cause already. But the jury will be able to be, you know, they will be able to trust the prosecution that this is an absolute certainty, that this is the man who murdered Charlie Kirk. Now, any defense, cross look, and we talked about this yesterday when, when there's not a real defense, you're going to try to poke holes in every little word that is used. You know, for instance, the officer yesterday said that he saw an empty holster. He thought the gunshot came from the eastern direction, but then they saw a man was detained by the stage, so he just assumed that the police got it. Well, that's human frailty. People think they could have got it wrong. It's in an echo chamber, essentially. So, you know, that's why he might have thought that people are like, oh, that was an amazing cross examination. Because now he didn't really know which way, you know, he thought that he wasn't certain which way the gunshot came from. Well, it turns out there's other forensic evidence that suggests exactly where it came from. Right. To include the entry wound and the penetration of the spine of Charlie Kirk tells you exactly what direction that bullet came from. Happens to be the same direction of that rooftop where that prone position was. Right.

[B]

So, hey, Jay, I'm just Getting told in my ear that they're just coming back, but I have so many questions for you. So we ran out of time here, but we gotta take back the trial here. Thank you, Jay, for the hearing, brother.

[D]

Good conversation is about respect. It's how we create a space where people are able to share their ideas and be heard. Charlie knew that. Turning Point still knows that. And TikTok has always strived to build the kind of place that thrives on respectful connection, where curiosity fuels connection and we can share what's on our minds

[B]

and learn from each other.

[D]

When ideas meet respect, good things happen. On TikTok, you can find a mechanic explaining the why behind a problem most of us wouldn't even know how to name, or a father sharing a lifetime of knowledge with his viewers. Viewers who listen, discuss, and then they respond. TikTok turns connection into community through small acts of understanding. You can feel it in the comments, in the thank you from a stranger

[B]

halfway across the world.

[D]

TikTok is a place where respect opens the door for discussion and discussion helps

[B]

us build something real. All right, welcome back. We're gonna take the last part of this hour to kind of summarize what just happened as we're getting it real time. That whole proceeding. I'm sure people were.

[C]

I was weird.

[B]

Yeah, we're sort of wondering what it was. Okay. That was in regards to a statement from David Engelhardt, who, yes, is a pastor and a lawyer, and he's also a board member. Turning Point, I believe he was asked to sort of provide that kind of as a statement of what does Turning Point do? What does it believe? What did Charlie believe? Talking about Christian beliefs, conservative values. They're doing that because there's something called enhancements. And again, apologies if I get any of this slightly wrong just simply because I'm not a lawyer. But there are something called enhancements necessary for a death penalty case. Right. So you have to prove that it was done. The motive was done out of a political or religious, basically, motive.

[C]

The Supreme Court, when they briefly banned the death penalty and then brought it back in the 70s, when they brought it back, they said, you can't have the death penalty just be the default punishment for first degree murder. You need some sort of aggravating factor. And so states that have the death penalty, such as Utah, have these aggravating factors. Common ones is if you've committed murder before, if you killed law enforcement officer, if you killed children, if you killed several people. And so what they're going for here, you could see this actually when they did the charging document, they looked for a few different reasons. This is one reason. For example, they. I remember in the original charging document, they mentioned, like other people were in the area so that they could claim he was endangering the lives of minors or other people. But the one that seems to be the strongest is that he was shooting Kirk because. Shooting Charlie because of his political beliefs. And that is an aggravating factor. Basically makes it a form of hate crime.

[B]

Right. And let's. We have the. We have a. I'm gonna try and pull it up here. Team. Can you pull up the. The text message exchange, the highlighted one where it talks about some hate. Can't be negotiated out. I know we have that. Let's. While we're. While we're trying to get that clip, let's go ahead and play SOT24. This is defense attorney Novak arguing there's no relevant information in Exhibit 5.1, which is this letter submitted by David Engelhardt. 24.

[J]

What I'm going to do is I'm going to point out that this proposed exhibit, which is the 1102 statement of Mr. Engelhardt, is basically four paragraphs. The fourth paragraph identifies Mr. Engelhardt, although I say in the third person, as a pastor and as an attorney who was a friend and a counselor to Mr. Kirk and was involved in leadership of Turning Point USA. Beyond that, it's not really relevant to any of the issues before this court. Paragraphs 1, 2, and 3 talks about turning point USA's status with the Internal Revenue Service, the purposes of Turning Point usa, and what I'll just refer to generically as the goals and objectives of Turning Point USA. And it also then talks about Mr. Kirk's role, relationship with TPUSA. None of this is unknown information. That he was a founder, that he was the chief executive officer, that he was the president of the board until his death. So I'm still not sure what the relevance is. And I guess actually what I should say is I don't believe there is any relevance of any of this information.

[B]

All right, so that's Novak. And by the way, I will just say I observed that the judge, Tony Graff, looked for the first time, just from my eyes, just what I observed, looked irritated. He looked sort of frustrated with just this constant, you know, objection, objection, objection, objection, making this last a week. And I would say that that was kind of the first time, I believe, fact check me on this, that Novak has been heard audibly in the courtroom during this preliminary hearing, and his tone is Very gruff. It's very sort of commanding. Almost like he's trying to dictate the terms to the judge. So I can imagine that would sort of be a little exhausting. So throw this up. We have this. And you know, by the way, this text message exchange between Tyler Robinson and Lance Twiggs that the state has presented. I had enough of his hatred. Some hate can't be negotiated out. Now, that is Tyler Robinson, who is a, you know, I guess former lds, right? He was raised Mormon, obviously was not living that way at the time of the shooting because he was living with his boyfriend. So he had a gay relationship with Twigs. Twigs was trans identified guy in. So it. All of this is very pertinent because

[D]

I had enough of his hatred.

[B]

Some hate can't be negotiated out. So these things are relevant in many ways. There was this, then a discussion about should the letter be submitted as evidence in a closed hearing. So here's SOT 25. This is Judge Graff rules on objections on this closed hearing. SOT 25 under count one, aggravated murder,

[K]

which is a capital offense, victim targeting enhancement in violation of Utah code annotated 76, 3, 203.14, sub 2, Tyler James Robinson intentionally selected Charlie Kirk because of Tyler James Robinson belief or perception regarding Charlie Kirk's political expression. If that was not here, this, this enhancement. And it also goes to count two, felony discharge of a firearm causing serious bodily injury, and then finally count seven, violent offense committed in the presence of a child, where the victim targeting enhancement also is in play. Because that is part of the information that's squarely before the court. This becomes relevant now trying to determine what is political expression versus religious expression. That, that's, that goes into different grounds. But at this point, the court finds it is relevant for consideration and for the very least for argument. The need for a closed hearing is not been met at this point.

[B]

So it's not been met at this point with a closed hearing. Then he goes on Judge Graff. Judge Graff explains what. So he kind of splits the baby here. Now, again, my interpretation of this, and I think a lot of people agree with me because I've got, like I said, I got all these lawyers and prosecutors that got out of the woodwork. I didn't even know that they were paying attention, but it's sort of signaling that the judge kind of has. I'm sure he's thinking that there's enough evidence here, right, Even just from the charging documents to take this thing to trial. He's trying not to Step on any procedural trip wires here that could cause a mistrial, could cause this thing to get overturned upon appeal, all these things. So he's being very deliberate. He kind of splits the baby. See how he addresses this objection from the defense here. SOT 26.

[K]

And so the ruling of the court is, Previously, I sustained Mr. Novak's objection, and the court will expound upon that that Mr. McBride in his argument cannot read the entirety of States Exhibit 5.1. Can he reference points of it and specifically quote certain points? The court rules that he can. There is grounds for that to occur in order for the court to consider the argument fully and making the determination whether it is relevant and should be admissible. Therefore, the court rules that Mr. McBride can continue in his arguments in order that the court can make its determination Whether states Exhibit 5.1 is admissible or not.

[B]

Okay, so then, so he splits the baby. Mr. McBride of the state. The prosecution then is able to sort of paraphrase and pull out aspects of the letter, which I'm sure was honestly frustrating for him, not just to be able to kind of read verbatim or frame it up. And you could see that kind of frustration between Mr. McBride and Mr. Novak on the defense. So it's just, again, technical back and forth. Very interesting. But ultimately it is. The judge essentially ruled that A, we don't need to go to a closed hearing for this, and B, he can extrapolate the main takeaways of the letter from David Engelhardt to make the case that this was an enhancement that warrants the death penalty in this case. So that's what all of that was about. It took about 40 minutes, 50 minutes.

[D]

So you wonder how long this stuff gets dragged out.

[C]

Yesterday we had that with Holt, where they had about 45 minutes of back and forth, and they had a closed door break for discussion on whether he's allowed to identify the defendant in the courtroom. And they build it up. They build it up and then they finally are allowed to get to the point. Okay, can you identify. Yeah, it's the guy between the two defense attorneys.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[C]

It's like watching if you. If you're familiar with the tea ceremony, the medieval tea ceremony in Japan, just something that could be done in 10 seconds and it's going to take all day.

[B]

Yeah. Well, that was a fascinating back and forth in a. I think, just to sum it up, I think the big piece of evidence that was submitted was that video compilation of Tyler Robinson, the man that the investigators identified as Tyler Robinson. They repeatedly stated that it was Tyler Robinson from the stand officer hole. And they have him there multiple times that day. They have him walking with a limp with presumably a weapon in his pant leg. They have him getting up on the rooftop of the Losee center and they

[C]

have him jumping off.

[B]

They have him immediately jumping off after 12:23 when we know Charlie was shot and they runs off the rooftop and throws something down on the ground. I believe that video is now public record and it's more video than we'd seen before.

[C]

And we're still waiting. We basically have, I think we'll have who's the guy who's going now and at least one witness after that.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

And we still haven't got. We still haven't got.

[C]

We're still waiting on Lance. We're still waiting on forensic testing to get entered in. I assume there'll probably be some further description of the turning in process in Washington County.

[D]

Right.

[B]

When you sure how much we'll get out of that turned in?

[C]

Yeah, but we're waiting on all of that. We'll have about three and a half hours of continued testimony today. Once they get back at 1:40 their time, they're going till 5. Then tomorrow they'll be starting after lunch. It'll be a half day on Wednesday and I guess we'll see how long it takes. Some people have said they think the prosecution's half of this will be done by Wednesday.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

But they found a way to elongate every single aspect of this.

[B]

Yeah. So we'll see. We're going to just a note about how we're going to handle tomorrow. So when the live show is tomorrow, there shouldn't I don't think there's going to be a hearing anything because it's going to be scheduled for the afternoon as we understand it. So presumably that'll be the schedule. If that's the case, then we will do a normal live show. We'll, you know, probably have an opportunity to cover some of the other news

[D]

like Mitch McConnell's health.

[B]

What's going on in the Strait of Hormuz? Graham Platner, there's a lot going on right now. Bernie Sanders has actually called for Graham

[D]

Platner to step down.

[B]

But there's a lot of news going on and we're going to cover that. Maybe we'll address some stuff from the trial. But again, we always have the after the preliminary hearing wraps tonight, we will do a day two recap. Tomorrow we'll do a day three recap, all focused on this trial.

[D]

So Stay tuned right here to the

[B]

Charlie Kirk show as we cover the state of Utah versus Tyler Robinson. We want justice for Charlie. That is what we want more than anything. We want to see the justice system play out. We want to see, you know, he is presumed innocent until proven guilty. That's the way our justice system works. And we love that.

[D]

We love that.

[B]

And I think it's a great heritage that we have. And so we're gonna we're gonna follow

[D]

this beat by beat, day by day,

[B]

evidence exhibit by exhibit.

[D]

So stay tuned right here.

[B]

Just the facts. And we appreciate you guys tuning in, and we'll talk to you soon.

[K]

For more on many of these stories

[D]

and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.