B (2:54)

Dr. Rose, thank you. Thank you, Dr. Gold. And I want to get into that, but first I want to hear. Dr. Rose, thank you for joining us. Can you talk about what you are seeing as far as these closures of schools? Do you believe that schools should be opened? Can you just give kind of a picture of what is driving people from canceling college athletics and shutting down all of these universities across the country and high schools? You're a medical doctor. You've been speaking out against this. I must be missing something. I can't understand how anyone can come to the conclusion that we must be closing schools right now.

A (3:29)

Well, I called you about this in February. In fact, we talked about it early in April. And like Dr. Gold was saying, as physicians, we would really have to suspend everything we have ever learned about viruses and treating infections and epidemics and pandemics to understand what we're dealing with now, because it makes no sense. We know a lot more about this virus than we did back in February when I called you. At the same time, we noted early on that it didn't affect children and it didn't affect young adults to any significant degree. The problem is the recent polls show that where people think 30 to 40% of the cases are in patients 44 years or younger, and it's actually 3%. And the more we learn about these viruses, this virus in particular, the more we understand that not only does it not affect kids, but kids aren't a major form of transmission. And you can see that in Sweden and other countries that didn't go through draconian lockdowns. So to answer your question succinctly, the reason I think we're seeing all these school closures is nothing more than a movement that is just not paying attention to any medicine, science or truth. But it's trying to shut down the economy through the back door. Because I have a lot. I have 137 employees throughout my clinics. And companies, and a lot of them are single mothers. And if the kids are home, it's hard for that mother to teach the child at home and go to work. And we now know, and there's several articles that children aren't super spreaders. And the one paper interesting enough, I believe it came out of Johns Hopkins that said children were spread. Super spreaders had two fatal flaws in it. One, their idea of children was 0 to 22. And the second thing was they didn't test for transmissibility of the disease. They were just looking for virus present. And I think that's when it started. All in the beginning, we seem to be looking at positive cases, not active disease. It seems to be, to sum it up, unwishful thinking. We're trying to prove everything that is not going to happen good and everything that could possibly happen bad. And it, like Dr. Gohl said, it doesn't make any sense.

B (5:38)

So, Dr. Todaro, I want to read one of the tweets you just recently sent out, which is, has Dr. Fauci engaged any of the doctors who have spent the last five months closely researching and or treating patients with hydroxychloroquine? The answer seems to be no. It doesn't seem like Dr. Fauci is interested in collaboration, the backbone of advancing medicine. Can you elaborate on that?

D (5:58)

Yeah. So this is something really, in my opinion, I've seen since March where there are doctors who were using hydroxychloroquine very early, doing active research on hydroxychloroquine. And yet, really, from the get go, we saw a lot of pushback from Dr. Fauci, the NIH, the World Health Organization, and all these people, instead of trying to collaborate and understand what these frontline doctors experiences are with this drug, what the research is, instead, they seem to be very dismissive of it. And you'd think that by now Dr. Fauci would have talked with Dr. Zelenko, Dr. Raoul in the south of France, and. And many of these other frontline physicians were actually treating patients. And instead it's just very dismissive. And he kind of uses either debunked studies or studies that are basically online surveys like the two that came out of Minnesota. And it's really disheartening to see someone that high up in the nih, who's responsible for billions of dollars of research, not collaborating with actual physicians on the ground who are seeing success with this treatment.

B (6:56)

So I want to follow up, Dr. Todaro, a lot of people have emailed us and people are getting really restless. We feel as if we're being lied to. We feel as if we are being misdirected. Can you tell us why? Because that's the number one thing that I get from people. They say, well, people wouldn't be lying cuz no one would. There would be no incentive to lie about this. Tell us why we are. No, this is the number one thing I get is from decent and reasonable people. They think that, well, there's no reason why Dr. Fauci would lie to us. He just wants what's best for the country. Can you help pick apart this? Because I think actually if we can get into the intentions of what some of these people may or may not have, financially or otherwise, we might be able to actually pick apart why they want to destroy our country by keeping us perpetually locked down.

D (7:37)

Absolutely. So I think the two major incentives, it's probably a combination of them. And I think that different kind of campaigns and misinformation are coming from different perspectives. But I think it looks political. And then Big Pharma, okay? We all know the politics of it. If the economy is continually locked down, if everything is shut down leading into the election, it's not going to be a good state of affairs, okay? But I think even more money is at stake from a big pharmaceutical perspective. We have companies that stand to make billions upon billions of dollars off this pandemic. Okay? I did an article about three weeks ago about Gilead specifically because at that time they were one of the companies that was really most in direct competition with hydroxychloroquine on coming up with a treatment for COVID 19. And it was very interesting how when hydroxychloroquine entered the scene. So when the President first mentioned in that March 19 press conference, Gilead stock plummeted, okay? It fell about 8.7% within hours after that announcement and continued to essentially erase $21 billion from the company's market cap early next week. So that's how much money is at stake. And that's just one pharmaceutical company. And the sad thing is they're probably not even the ones to stand the biggest profit off this pandemic. We're really looking at a vaccination campaign that's underway and some states are already talking as if they're going to make this vaccine absolutely mandatory, the first FDA approved vaccine mandatory. And this could be in a few months. So we know that safety studies are not going to be great. We're not even going to really be having enough time to determine whether the vaccine is very effective, if it's effective at all. And you're going to have states rolling this out. And even if it's a cheap vaccine or low cost, the government is either going to spend a ton of money for that vaccine. And just the breadth of how many people are going to receive this vaccine, we're talking about billions upon billions of dollars.

B (9:25)

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C (10:51)

You know, I speak about this publicly because not only is it so bizarre. No one's talking about how bizarre it is. We've never had the situation in America. There's a safe, cheap, worldwide, effective medication that can be scaled up enormously. Billions of dosages available. It costs less than $10 a treatment, and everyone's pretending to not notice that it's available. It is fundamentally Irrational to take an untested, unproven remedy when you have something that's been around for six and a half decades. It makes no sense. I would never advocate that for a physician, as a physician, and I dare any physician to tell me that it's in a patient's best interest to take something that is untested, unproven over something with a 65 year old track record.

B (11:35)

I mean, and you're exactly right. And so I'm just trying to get to the bottom of how we are able to communicate this more effectively. So Dr. Rose, when you and I talked in February, you made three predictions. I just want to establish your credibility even further here. You said this virus has been in America much longer than they're telling us. And that is now a widely, let's say, recognized fact. It probably came around January even some people say as early as October or November. Number two, you said lockdowns are the dumbest epidemiological idea we've ever done and will ever do and this will destroy the backbone of our country. And the third thing that you said, which was really, really interesting, is that Dr. Fauci is compromised and you should not trust this guy. Can you talk more about that? Cuz it seems like even though he's kind of been de emphasized, he's still calling a lot of the shots. And Joe Biden has said now we're gonna shut down the country again if that's what it takes. Schools are not open. Dr. Rose, when are people, when is the right time to push back against this?

A (12:34)

Well, Charlie, the right time is now and it has been. But I'm going to take you really briefly through the evolution of this because you can hear it in Dr. Gold's voice. Her passion is legitimate and rational, honest, virtuous human being. Not a person looks at this as a doctor and says this has been wrong from the beginning. Yet we have a medicine that has been shown to show great success in treating this disease and we are putting that on the bench. And we're rushing through vaccines which take years to develop. And we've had disasters in the development of vaccines in the history of this country. But if you look back to March, you had an article come out in Nature magazine and it was fascinating. It was a very well done article, peer reviewed on hydroxychloroquine and it said number one, it was safe for short term use. Number two, it showed efficacy and it worked in SARS. Covid 2. And the third thing which was interesting is all has an anti inflammatory characteristic. Which now COVID 19 has shown to cause clots and inflammation, cytokine cascade. So it, it checked off all the boxes, but so it had a lot of forward moving progress. Like James mentioned earlier, the studies against hydroxychloroquine, there have basically been 14 studies that have said it was bad. Ten of them were all done in the late stage of the disease, which no one says that it has great efficacy for. Two of them were out of Minnesota and were debunked. One of them was out of Brazil, that was debunked and that was the one Dr. Fauci was pushing. But this is where everything can be tied together and comes down to the nefarious nature of this. The last study, the one that got everyone to pump the brakes on hydroxychloroquine, came out of the Lancet. Now the Lancet is a very respected medical journal, but as you know, I work around the world and I have a lot of friends living around the world. So I pulled up the Lancet study and I will tell you from reading it, then I looked into the authors and then I did some deep dive. Now I couldn't find it in the US papers, I couldn't find it in the US media, but I do have a lot of connections in India and Pakistan. So I went to their medias and I pulled up some articles and what it showed. Now the doctors that are on your show will understand this. I've published, I think 15 plus papers in peer review journals. When you publish a paper, it doesn't happen overnight. You go through peer review boards, you go through IRBs, institutional review boards, you have editorial staffs now. And that's just for your average journal. I can't even imagine what it's like to get a paper published in the Lancet. There were three authors on this paper. The lead author is the head of cardiovascular center at Brigham's and Women at Harvard. I mean, this guy is very well published. He's an editor of a journal, he's the head of a society. I mean, this is a very well published guy. They did a report, 96,000 plus patients and their conclusions, and I have it in front of me here, were that hydroxychloroquine not only didn't appear to work and you got to look at the wordsmithing on all of this because I'll get to that in a second. Because a lot of this coming out from medical boards is wordsmithing didn't appear to work. In fact, it potentially could cause grave consequences. And I'm paraphrasing, but I could read you the exact words. So then everyone looked at the study and said, wait a second, we got to stop it stopped. Clinical trials, every medical society put out, the sky is falling to every doctor. I mean, I'm sure the other doctors on the show got stuff from their state medical associations, from their boards, et cetera. And everyone was saying, pump the brakes. But within two weeks, people started looking at this study and here's where it gets nefarious. And no one talks about. They started looking at the design of this study. You know, Dr. Ioannidis Ronitas from Stanford, he was the first one to see this back in 2005 and was called the crisis of reproducibility on studies, where you would get studies but you couldn't reproduce them. So we went towards a evidence based study and then you look at the design of the study. So people approaching it from that aspect looked at the design of this study and they looked at those 96,000 patients and they asked obvious questions. Besides the fact that they were using high doses, older patients, et cetera. They just said, we'd like to see the, the medical records. Charlie. They could not produce one medical record. It came from a company, and this is an Indian newspaper that and I cross checked all this called Surgisphere. It has six employees, it's based out of Chicago, Illinois. They did all the big data crunch because everyone knows they don't have enough people to do this magnitude of a study. So they use, quote, AI and if you look at their staff, the head of their scientific writing division that probably wrote the paper is kind of Ben Rhodes esque. He's a science fiction writer, the head of their marketing. Besides, that job works part time as, quote, an adult model. No, it's a porn star. And so that's kind of an interesting thing because it's funny and it's tragic because they could not produce one medical record in the one country they said they work with. One group in Scotland said it wasn't true. So now here's where you wind up. People stopped using hydroxychloroquine. And I'm telling you right now, as a physician who's seen it work, based on my experience, and I'm not unique in any of this, when they did that, that's more than nefarious. I think some places would look at that as murder. I mean, I don't know any other way to say it. You're not using something that shows potential effect.

C (18:23)

Could I, could I add something? Yeah. So A couple of things we are so honored to have on this phone call. Dr. Tadaro, who is actually one of the people who investigated what's become known as Lancet Gate. So I'm so glad that you brought that up and we could ask him further, but I just want to continue with that. Dr. Raul, who's the famous virologist in France, just wrote a letter to New England Journal of Medicine one day ago and called the corruption in the scientific journals. He likened it to a Marx Brothers movie. He sent this to the New England Journal of medicine. He has 140,000 citations on Google Scholar and they won't even print it. The corruption in scientific journals is legendary.

A (19:01)

Dr. Rowe has over 400 bacteria named after him or he's named. Yeah, he's very well published. But, Charlie, what Dr. Gold's saying is this is beyond a scandal. This is corruption. Not in politics where you caught someone doing something. This is corruption in the scientific realm where we have to get it right or at least be able to say we got it wrong. And. And they're pushing it to the back of the line and people are paying the price. Everyone is.

B (19:28)

That's well said, Dr. Rose. Dr. Todaro, you're one of the first people to blow the whistle on the Lancet study, Right. And can you fill in even more exactly what Dr. Rose is talking about? And look, I just want to be very clear here, though. Most people don't believe what you guys are saying. So you have to also, you have to tell the motivations here. Most people will discount you guys as baseless on this. They say, why would anyone do something like this? That's the number one.

A (19:55)

Dr. Mayer, the head guy on that study is supported by, I think he has a disclosure statement. He receives the maximum that he can get on disclosing it says greater than 5,000 from over 10 or 15 pharmaceutical companies. The Lancet is supported by those companies. I mean, this goes really deep.

B (20:15)

Dr. Todaro, can you fill in the gaps?

D (20:18)

Couple comments that Keith did a good job describing? Lansing Gate. So I wrote a paper in the end of May called the study out of thin air, because that's where this study essentially came from. It was out of thin air. And so I won't go into the details of the study, which Keith so well covered, but just for your listeners who are saying, oh, we don't know if we believe them or not, the editor in chief of the Lancet, so Richard Horton himself called the study a monumental fraud. Okay, so this is not something that was flawed methodology of A study. This is a flawed, fraudulent study. And that's universally known now whether the mainstream media gives that very much attention. No, they don't, but that is well known. Secondly, as Keith was talking about, these medical journals, including the Lancet, receive a large part of their publishing revenue from pharmaceutical companies. It was actually funny. I was just on the Lancet's website a couple weeks ago and at the top banner there's an advertisement for a Gilead product. I mean, that's where these medical journals get their money. It's from pharmaceutical companies. And it's been known for about 17 years that pharmaceutical companies really to an extent control what is published in these journals. So Richard Horton, again the editor in chief of Lancet, he's been in that position for a couple of decades, said in 2003 that the control the pharmaceutical companies have of what they can publish is unbelievable. They're essentially marketing machines for big pharma. And it's even less publicly said now, which probably just means that the pharmaceutical companies even have more control. So much that it can only be said in closed door meetings between editors in chief of the New England Journal of Medicine and the Lancet how much control and influence the pharmaceutical companies have over them. And this was stated by a very prominent former minister of health in France who said this a few weeks ago in a leaked meeting that the New England Journal of Medicine editor in chief was complaining about the corruption that's going on in these medical journals.

C (21:59)

And that's Dr. Duste Blaset, former French Health Minister. You can Google it.

B (22:05)

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C (23:52)

First of all, everybody needs to stop calling this a pandemic and a virus that we're responding to. We are in the situation we're in because of the lockdown and because of rules that the governors are putting into place. We are essentially at the end of the pandemic. When you look at all the worldwide curves, we're flattened, we're at the bottom. We're very far at the tail end of this. The problems now are man made, political made. They're made by different governors who are putting in place very restrictive, onerous restrictions that are essentially unconstitutional. And I want to emphasize as doctors that these lockdowns are so harmful for people's health. They're harmful for their physical health, they're harmful for their psychological health. And we know that this is a fraud because the group that they're focusing on so much the fools is particularly ludicrous. There really is no problem for children. If you didn't lock down last year for influenza, then why in the world would you be locking down this year for Covid, which has a much lower death rate than influenza? It makes no sense. It should be obvious to everyone that this is not scientifically based. And citizens, honestly, I think Charlie need to rise up and Refuse to comply with these procedures. As a practical matter, if you're living in a state where your schools are closed and under no circumstances should you be participating in that to pull your children out of school, you can form micro schools. I've heard you talk about that. You can get together with five families. My friends are like, oh, that's a lot of work. It's not a lot of work compared to them sending your kid home every two weeks when some kid in the class tested positive. It's easier to be a structured online schooling environment. You can control the situation. They can be in class online 9 to 12, 9 to 1, then they can do sports during the afternoon or see their friends. You need to not participate to the extent that you can pull yourself out of government mandates that make no sense.

B (25:29)

So, Dr. Gold, I want to just follow up with you really quick. Can you give an update on how you're doing? Your website kept on getting pulled down. I believe you got fired from your job because you spoke out. A lot of our audience cares deeply about you. Can you give some sort of update? Are you doing okay?

C (25:44)

Thank you. As a matter of fact, I'm honored by the overwhelming support of and to give that love back to the people we put on our website, which I had to rebuild. And you can find it now under aflds, the acronym for America's Frontline doctors. You can actually find a way to find doctors.

B (26:01)

What's the website again? Hold on.

C (26:02)

It's a AFLDS America frontlinedoctors.com.

B (26:09)

okay.

C (26:10)

Aflds.com and you can look for the HCQ map and on there you can find your state. And if you scroll down, you can find a telemedicine doctor who's hydroxychloroquine knowledgeable. Pharmacists to our hydroxychloroquine knowledgeable. And you can help yourself because Charlie and everybody who's listening, if you let go of the fear, knowing that there's treatment available should you need it, you'll be able to go back to your normal life and shrug off the dictatorial edicts of our governors.

B (26:37)

Dr. Rose, you want to add to that also? What are we missing from our leaders right now?

A (26:43)

I want to add on to what Dr. Gold said because she's spot on. But I've been looking at what I get from my medical society, what I've been seeing from my board. And the interesting thing is every medical society, and so people, I hope everyone's paying attention because this is a way to take your country back. Tomorrow. Every medical Society, every board has a COVID 19 task force and they list the names of those physicians on the COVID 19 task force. Every county doctor that's making recommendations to a county judge has a medical license and you'll know who that doctor is. And they list their names. I think, Charlie, and I'm not a big fan of this, but I think this is what it was designed for. If the American people, if you have a loved one that had COVID 19 tried to get hydroxychloroquine and were denied, I think the best way to understand what's going on would be to get with an attorney, class action. You know who these doctors are. That if they're making the recommendations, then I think they can support that. They can support that because in discovery you can find out if they have written that prescription for anyone. Because all prescriptions are electronic. You don't have to know who they wrote it for, but you can find out if they're recommending not using it, but writing it. I think we need to know if they've had it written for themselves because I know several doctors who have gone along with saying we can't write it, who have written it for themselves, family members, et cetera. So I think the time is, look,

B (28:18)

that's a great point.

A (28:19)

In medicine, it's premier non necessary, first do no harm. And the best way to understand how county judges are talking to county doctors is in a request. If it has to be in a courthouse or an Open Information act request. Why don't you find out their emails and who they're talking to? Is there a front group pushing them?

C (28:39)

Send an email to info. We are actively looking for plaintiffs. Those would be patients who've attempted to get hydroxychloroquine whose pharmacists said they wouldn't fill it, or doctors who've been writing for it and were thwarted by pharmacists. We are actively looking for those plaintiffs. Info aflbs.com, i think that would be

A (29:01)

our next growth industry is you're going to see people on in about two, three months going, did you try to get hydroxychloroquine? And we're denied. But not just the doctors, but the medical societies, the boards empowering them. Here's the thing, Charlie. What you're seeing from the Lancet, what James showed so clearly is you're seeing corruption at the highest level and no one seems to care. The guy that was the first author on that paper still has a job. And I got to tell you, I mean, anyone that's been in academic medicine that wouldn't happen. We're canceling people for words. And these folks put those words in a journal, told us it was true and I think possibly I'll use their special language. Cost thousands of lives.

B (29:51)

Dr. Todaro, according to a FOIA request, and this is citing Pastor Rob McCoy. Dr. Rose and I both know him from quite well. He said that a FOIA request in Thousand Oaks, California revealed that there were 102 deaths with the Chinese coronavirus, but only two of the Chinese coronavirus. Now this Dr. Rose could talk about this in a second because I know he's familiar with this data as well. But I'm just opening this as a broader conversation. Dr. Todaro, are all these numbers, should we take exactly as they are being told or is there a difference between dying with and dying from? What are we missing here when it comes to the how we're interpreting the data and communicating the data?

D (30:29)

Yeah, so absolutely there's dying with COVID and dying from COVID And especially when you're talking about people from in nursing homes or maybe near the last stretch of their life, you know, they have a very high mortality rate with or without Covid. And so you have to determine that. We already know and we've had health commissioners in different states say this, that patients will die of something that is obviously not Covid. But because they have Covid, that's their diagnosis that goes as another notch on the death list for Covid. So that's absolutely happening across the board. I think looking back we'll be able to compare kind of all cause mortalities and see how many are really from COVID and make those assessments comparing let's say 2020 to the averages in 2017, 2018, 2019. But yeah, there's absolutely. I think that there's an exaggeration of deaths from COVID 19.

B (31:22)

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D (32:14)

Absolutely, absolutely. At our frontline doctor Summit, there's a great talk by a psychiatrist who is seeing many of these families and children who are dealing with these lockdowns. And it's no surprise. And this has a huge effect on kids, on my kids. Everyone's. Now, these kids are afraid of this invisible disease. They're not allowed to go hug their grandparents anymore. They're not allowed to play with other kids. If they do, you have to try to keep a mask on a two year old in a lot of states, which is just unbelievable. And it's having a psychological impact on kids, on adults. A lot of people are drinking more. You're sitting at home, you're now out of a job maybe. And so absolutely you're seeing this. And this child psychiatrist was talking about how kids are fighting more with their siblings. They aren't entertained by, you're not going to school anymore. And so it's absolutely having a huge, huge, dramatic effect on those processes.

B (33:02)

Simone, what are your thoughts on that?

C (33:06)

There's no question in terms of the lockdown. The lockdown is so harmful to Americans. There is 150,000 cancer screenings that went missing. The list is just endless. You know, I just, maybe I'm being too general, but this whole thing is just such a hoax. It reminds me of the fable when we were young. The emperor has no clothes. The emperor has no clothes. There's no reason for us to be living like this. The disease affects people severely who have multiple comorbid conditions. Also frequently they're much older. Those patients are in jeopardy if they come down with COVID But the vast majority of Americans are not in jeopardy if they come down with COVID And if they do test positive and they do have symptoms, we have medication that works. So I don't even understand what this is. And Americans need to start understanding that their way of life is being threatened for no reason. I like to sometimes say there could be a reason to act like this. That reason would be a disease like smallpox. Smallpox is very lethal, very contagious. All right, this is not that. COVID 19 overwhelmingly does not kill people. Overwhelmingly. And I'm not saying it doesn't exist. I'm an emergency doctor taking care of many patients with COVID but the ones that do badly are the ones that are near the end of life due to multiple comorbid conditions.

B (34:22)

Yeah, and I've lost a friend to the virus. It's a real thing. But Keith. And it's a tragic thing, but. However, Keith, you made the argument to address it. Since when have we ever quarantined the healthy? Whose idea was this? I mean, just looking at this, as a non scientist, I'm just. Logically, I can't even come to the conclusion. I just.

A (34:44)

Sure. The lockdowns and the social distancing. A lot of folks, if they heard our first podcast back in April, know that a lot of these ideas came out of that paper out of New Mexico where one of the author's daughter, who was actually second author on the paper, wrote a paper in high school on social distancing and talked about. It was back during the Bush administration, talked about the potential how you would treat a pandemic. And it was her idea. I think that's where they got social distancing and possibly lockdown. But Charlie, the thing that every American should look at is why do we have so much unwishful thinking? Why are we ignoring what's right in front of our eyes and why are we pushing that even harder? Because what we can't ignore, what these county judges have done with these lockdowns. Here are the hard facts. We know there's a 35% increase in domestic abuse because we have people that are home with their abusers and they can't leave. We know we have massive increases in suicides, overdoses, alcoholism. We know that when people are afraid, they dump cortisol in their body, which will cause exacerbation of very common diseases and make them much worse. If you read, there's a journal called Modern Healthcare and basically it's a business medical journal. Hospitals are posting record numbers as far as revenue because people aren't seeking care. I mean, someone even went off to say that basically COVID 19 has made it better for heart attack patients and strokes. No, they're just too afraid to go in and be seen and they're dying at home.

C (36:23)

May I add something, May I add something, Charlie, about the quarantine issue? People forget that I'm a lawyer. I went to Stanford University law school. There is no legal precedent in our country for quarantine and the healthy. It's simply. It doesn't exist. It's unconstitutional. There's a case directly on point in California. California Supreme Court ruled on this exact Issue in the era of bubonic plague, around 1900, there's a case named Jew Ho. The plaintiff's name is J E W H O. And in that time, the public health commissioner of San Francisco tried to lock down 12 city blocks because there were 15 cases or so of bubonic plague. And this went all the way up to the California Supreme Court. The California Supreme Court said, no, you cannot lock down, I think it was 12,000 healthy people from socializing and going to work and living their lives because there's bubonic plague in the area. It cannot be done. There is no legal precedent for allowing the government to quarantine healthy people. And there's plenty of legal precedents saying we cannot. There needs to be court cases brought. Even though COVID 19 will be over. We need those precedents established because it's clear to me that COVID 19 is merely a dress rehearsal. We need those precedents established so this cannot happen again.

B (37:31)

Yeah, go ahead, Dr. Rosen. I want to ask Dr. Todaro something. Go ahead.

A (37:34)

Dr. Gold spoke about smallpox. At the start of this country, there was a smallpox epidemic. The British were. They weren't affected because they were all immune, but the colonists were. And Washington had to make the decision whether to try to immunize the army or not. And he actually made it illegal to immunize the army, which they would scrape a scab and they would use a needle and immunize each other. Then he realized he was losing most of the continental forces or potentially was going to lose them. So he allowed for immunization. He reversed course. He recognized what was going on, and he reversed course. And that's a disease that kills a third of everyone that gets it. He could have wiped out the whole army, but he did it for the chance to fight for freedom. And I think we need to remember that there is a risk benefit to everything. The risk of COVID 19, we're finding out, is less and less every day, and there's more and more therapeutic options. But the benefit of getting out and starting up our economy is critical, and we need to get out and start up. Everyone should just go out. There should be mass civil disobedience. Open the country, and that's the only way we're going to get back, or we won't have the chance for that freedom.

B (38:47)

So, Dr. Todaro, can you tell us, just from looking at the data, maybe you don't have it available, but I'm sure you'd have some idea of the death rate this year versus the death rate the Last couple years, have we seen an increase in the death rate at all, or has the death rate been somewhat unchanged?

D (39:03)

So this is something that I just started diving into recently. It's been a busy week, but it looks like compared to 2019, so the first 32 weeks of 2019 versus 2020, that there is an uptick in the number of deaths in this year compared to last year. I have not compared this to 2018 or 2017. So I think there's no doubt that COVID 19 caused some degree of excess mortality. The question is how much? And I'm actually looking forward to doing that data analysis over the next few days. I do have something I want to talk about, though, that has to do with lockdowns. It's actually a piece of, I think, really good news that the mainstream media is not covering and not giving near the amount of attention it should be. And this has to do with T cell immunity, herd immunity. Okay, so this is a very active area of research that's been going on for the past four to eight weeks. And it's around T cells and from a high level. T cells are part of the adaptive immune system that helps you respond to specific diseases. You have B cells for antibodies and then T cells. And what the new research is showing is that T cells from blood samples from before the pandemic, so blood samples from people from 2019, when exposed to SARS CoV2, the novel coronavirus, the T cells are specifically reacting to the new virus. Okay. And what this implies is that there's a degree of protective immunity for a large percentage of the population. And these studies vary on the exact percentage, but it's around 50%. Okay? And so this is critically important because this means about 50% of people might have some degree of immunity versus coronavirus. And so this. The immune system is very complex, and T cell immunity are just one part of it. But if you take this knowledge, this new research, and plug it into what we're seeing in the real world, it starts to make sense. One of the big questions is, why are nearly 50% of people asymptomatic yet test positive for coronavirus? Well, do they have the T cell immunity that's being able to attack those infected cells and eradicate them before the person even develops symptoms? Now, this has huge implications on herd immunity, because if someone's asymptomatic, there's a much lesser chance they're going to spread the disease. So we have 50% of people that are partially or maybe even fully protected from the disease. You don't have to reach that 60 to 70%. There's so many infectious disease experts and epidemiologists were talking about. So they all said you have to reach 60 to 70% of people infected to reach this herd immunity threshold. And that's a lot of people infected. But what we're seeing in the real world is it's not hitting that level. We're seeing city after city around the entire world hit about 20% prevalence based on antibody testing. Then cases begin to decline, deaths begin to decline. And this happened in Lombardi. This happened in London, Madrid, Geneva, New York City, Stockholm. And the lockdown advocates will sit there and say, oh, well, that's because we did lockdowns and masks. But we all know lockdown mandates and masks came at different times. Yet so many of these areas hit the 20%. And we know as a control, and I'm sure you've talked about it, this, Sweden did not mandate lockdowns, did not mandate masks. And again, Stockholm, 20% infected. Cases began to decline, deaths began to decline. And today there's less than one death per day in Sweden. And so if you combine this 50% that have some partial or full immunity already prior to the pandemic, to about 20% that are newly infected, you now have a decent percentage of the population that may be partially or fully immune to coronavirus. And so this would mean that many parts of the country, especially the areas that were hardest hit, might be able to open up safely. And this could be New York City and so many other of those cities around the world that aren't seeing that second wave in deaths. And so I think this is huge. In addition to the new therapeutics, we have, this information needs to get out there. And it's being suppressed both at the mainstream media and censorship on Twitter, but also actually at the level of academic journals.

A (42:46)

It's also.

D (42:47)

Yes. So there's biomathematicians that put out a great study looking at evaluating the mathematical models for why they're hitting 20%. Their articles rejected from every scientific journal. And the reason being, and the journal said that she quoted in her tweet, is that it's because we don't want to give people the idea that, you know, maybe, you know, it could justify reopening. Okay, that's science. You have to be able to discuss science openly. And so that's the level of expression. Schooling on, go ahead.

A (43:16)

The T cells will open the schools. Charlie, too. It's exactly what James is saying. The T cells start in the bone marrow, they go to the thymus. And they, they go from the thymus out in the body. And the T cells, a lot of kids are exposed to different. There's several types of coronavirus. There are four types that are just basically the common cold. And that's what those T cells recognize. And that's why I think we're not seeing a lot in younger and more. It's worse and older because the thymus will involute and shrink over time as a person gets older. So the T cell research is being done now is the one of the strongest pillars for opening schools showing that kids have prior immunity. And it not. It just fits perfectly scientifically and what we know with our body chemistry, no

C (44:04)

one's paying attention to it really, plain and simple. Kids have more T cell activity than grownups. And guess what? Kids are not getting sick from this. Connect the dots.

A (44:15)

Exactly.

B (44:16)

So I want to ask something about getting immunity. Either Dr. Keith or Dr. Gold. Some people are saying in Hong Kong someone's getting the virus twice that they've gotten. Is that possible? Has that ever happened in the case of viruses? There's more and more news articles that are saying this.

A (44:35)

If you look at the studies, and I'm probably. Simone probably knows more about this than I do, but the studies I've looked at where they're getting the virus twice again. What does getting the virus mean? Is that a positive test? Because we know that the test. A lot of them are false positives or they test for shredded virus or, or broken up viral particles. We're not seeing repeat infections. And you can look in countries that weren't locked down. Sweden has a great study just showing that and showing the graphs. In fact, if you look across the board right now the greatest case for immunity is looking at every group and every state that's not locking down hard and opening up because all their death rates are going down. When you look at positive case, it doesn't mean anything. You have to look further than that. It's just a vanity metric.

B (45:19)

Dr. Gold.

C (45:21)

I just keep it really simple. Like the exception proves the rule. Do you understand that? You know, people get influenza A sometimes they also get influenza B, but they can recover. Overwhelmingly people recover from this virus or they were asymptomatic to begin with.

D (45:35)

So I have a few things I want to say. Charlie, you're really on top of things because this like press release I think just came out today. Yesterday. So what he's talking about. What he's talking about is a person from Hong Kong was infected with coronavirus From March, got reinfected in August. So 142 days later. I think there's some important parts of this. So he had experienced the disease in March. He was symptomatic. This most recent time of reinfection, he was asymptomatic. Okay. No symptoms. All he had was an inflammatory marker that bumped up a little bit hypokalemia, which is low potassium. And then he developed IgG antibodies right after that. So that's the only evidence they really had that he had a second infection. It's really important to note it was asymptomatic. He likely had T cells, maybe not even the antibodies, but the T cells was able to fight this infection before it actually developed symptoms. And I have not seen any evidence that he actually spread that disease to other people. I did not see that in the press release, but that's kind of what I'm talking about. Herd immunity is you have the people that even if they're reinfected, they're able to eradicate the disease without symptoms. They're not coughing. They're not projecting the viral particles to other people and getting others infected.

B (46:41)

So let's go really quick. Dr. Rose, let's go around the horn. So we'll go. Dr. Rose, Dr. Gold, and then we'll finish with one more final comment. Go ahead.

A (46:50)

Well, I think I had H1N1. I was in the Middle east in 2009, and so I kept the whole file on it because I was really sick and I thought I was going to die. I just found that file the other day, and it was interesting from the CDC and from our state medical association said that it was in November. And I'll send it to you because I have it said don't. We don't need to test anymore for H1N1. If you find a patient, just treat them. They didn't even want to know who was positive or not, so why. And that was a horrific disease.

B (47:26)

Really quick. They say it's because you can be an asymptomatic spreader. That's what they said made this one different, but it's actually true.

A (47:32)

Well, they say a lot, but I'm just.

B (47:34)

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I'm just saying this is what they say.

A (47:36)

The only problem is an asymptomatic spreader doesn't produce enough viral load in the studies that actually look at it. And if you're not producing viral load, the only asymptomatic spread, which is probably 24 to 48 hours prior to active symptoms is on a spouse or an intimate contact, not in the workplace, not in the school. So the asymptomatic spreader, just to use plain term, is not really a thing.

C (48:00)

And to continue with that, the CDC finally, finally just came out saying you should not test asymptomatic people. How do you like that? That just came out. They're finally catching up. Obviously, you should not be testing asymptomatic people. There's all these kids at school that are now being tested and they're being kept out. So, number one, don't get tested if you're asymptomatic. Even the CDC says that. If I could just circle back really quickly. I wanted to say something about vaccines that I neglected to say earlier. The reason I'm very reluctant to put all my faith in vaccine, even though the president keeps touting the vaccine, is although the government can rush the scientific process to a certain extent, when you're giving a medication, which a vaccine is, to a very large group of asymptomatic people who are healthy, you're taking a healthy population and you're looking for subtle, maybe late, side effects, There is no substitute for waiting a good length of time to discern if there were subtle side effects that took a few years to show up or relate. There's just so much the government can do. They can rush the test tube process, but they cannot rush the observation period. They may make it legal, but that's not the way a drug should be given to people who are asymptomatic, healthy, and we're not going to be threatened by this virus in the first place. You should not be taking an untested, unproven medicine. If you're healthy and there's no threat to you, it should go through the process. And may I just say that vaccine. All vaccine companies are completely shielded from any legal liability should something go wrong. That is not something to rush.

B (49:39)

So I guess let's just leave this as an open. We'll go around the horn. Let's talk to Dadaro. Do you have anything you wanted to add?

D (49:47)

No, I think they covered it pretty well.

B (49:48)

So let's go. Let's just start with Dr. Rose, then Dr. Gold and Dr. Todaro. What can people do? What questions should they ask? Because people are saying, what do I do? Where do I get things? How do I get information? People feel helpless and they feel confused. And you can't blame them for that because they're getting so much incredible disinformation. Start with you, Dr. Rose, Dr. Gold, then Dr. Todaro.

A (50:11)

Every state, Charlie, every state board and every state's medical oversight has different rules. So they need to check on their state board, their state oversight committees, and find out what can and can't be done. And then they need to have a talk with their physician because they have the right to request treatment. And as long as in Texas, as long as we document everything and we talk to them and they request treatment, we can treat them. And you need to hold people accountable. And I mean that with all due respect. And they go to Dr. Gold's website, sounds like they have a lot of information about what's going on. And just to put hydroxychloroquine in perspective, Penicillin allergies kill one person a day or 33 people a month. That's what we've seen across the board. Hydroxychloroquine does it. And it's all about a risk benefit. Yet when I go South America and I take hydroxychloroquine, I take it two weeks before all during that time and four weeks after. And no one seems to have a problem when I take it or when I give it to my children or when I give it to family members. So you need to ask questions. Don't just be. Don't look to cnn, msnbc, but ask the hard questions and sit down with your doctor and tell them, look, I need to know. And physicians need to pay attention too. We have a responsibility.

B (51:37)

The only problem I have with that, Dr. Rose, is they sit down with their doctor. I've met plenty of doctors that disagree with everything that has been said this whole hour. So I kind of disagree just to push back a little bit. So what do they do, Dr. Rose, if they're doctor.

A (51:48)

Well, you gotta find a doctor.

B (51:49)

Okay.

A (51:49)

You gotta find one that works.

B (51:50)

No. And that's where Dr. Gold can come in. I'm just saying. And I completely agree that you're saying, but I mean, I get these emails from doctors saying how irresponsible I'm being for having you guys on my show. Just give you an idea.

A (52:02)

Yeah, and they're cowards, of course.

C (52:05)

So let me just share my perspective. I agree with you completely, Charlie, that a lot of doctors have drunk the Kool Aid. Doctors are also citizens of America living in a country that has been having a massive disinformation campaign. I love America and I love its people. The website is there to empower you. Listener, if you are listening, you can go to my website and you can find not only the laws and regulations that Dr. Rose is talking about. In your state, you will find a telemedicine physician who understands these issues. Now if you live in a state that does permit hydroxychloroquine, which you can see right away on the map and you don't want to change your doctor and your doctor doesn't know, you should print out the white paper that's under the reference tab and share it with your physician. It lays out all the information. It is true that some doctors have so drunk the Kool Aid that they can't see clearly and you really should not go to doctors like that. But I do believe there are a lot of physicians who are not knowledgeable and would be open to learning the information. You can actually bring your own doctor the white paper and help yourself. There's also a lot of videos under the tab Summit, you can watch a video as it applies to you. If you've got kids that are school age, you can watch the video about kids. You've got a healthy older parent or a sick older parent, you can watch that video.

B (53:15)

Aflds.com yes, sorry, that the. No, you're great, Dr. Todaro.

D (53:22)

So it's not a simple answer. And it really comes down to every patient, the general public, staying informed. And the way to do that is again, not watching cnn, msnbc, mainstream media. Anything they give you is gonna be superficial and probably just disinformation. So you're gonna have to digest things from other sources. These types of podcasts, little long form conversations where you can better understand what's going on. America's Frontline Doctors website. I have a website, medicineuncensored.com where I put a lot of the research that's coming out on this stuff. The second thing is if you don't feel like your doctor is being open minded, whether it's a therapeutic or advice in general on hydroxychloroquine for instance, fire them. Go to a new physician. Do you want that closed minded physician who's maybe gonna be managing your care in a hospital? If you do get sick, you have options to see different physicians. A lot of times you should do that. And that will put pressure on these physicians to maybe stay a little bit more informed. And I know physicians hate this and many don't like patients to come in with evidence or whatever on certain therapeutics and stuff because they're always like, oh well, what does the patient know? But there's so much difference of opinion among doctors out there that doctors need to deal with this new evidence and patients need to put pressure on them.

B (54:37)

One last thing. It's just kind of newsy. I just saw an alert pop up on my email here about plasma. Does anyone want to take that? Dr. Gold? Is there efficacy to this? Is there hope in here? What do you think, Dr. Gold? It's just really newsy.

C (54:49)

So I want patients to have all options. I want these decisions to be made between the doctor and the patient. Convalescent plasma has its place. I want to emphasize that it's useful in the late stage of the disease. Hydroxychloroquine is useful in the early stages of the disease. If you were not treated prevention properly with hydroxychloroquine and zinc early and you unfortunately are hospitalized and very sick, you would want to receive plasma, but you would also want to receive high antibody dose plasma. And it's much more complicated and it's for the late stage. So it is a valid therapeutic. It should be available to doctors. But hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, budenoside should also be available to Doctors.

B (55:30)

Thank you, Dr. Rose. Any other closing thoughts?

A (55:34)

Just what Simone triggered something in me and that was hospitalized. And when you take the medication, a lot of medical societies and a lot of state medical associations say they don't recommend it in hospitalized patients and people are taking that across the board. It's a medication, hydroxychloroquine to take early. And so just when you hear certain studies or certain people talking, look and see if they say it doesn't work or could possibly not work. Everyone seems to be wordsmithing a lot these days. So it's really up to the patient to be informed. And I love what James said. If your doctor's not taking care of you, you have the right firing and go find someone who will.

B (56:14)

Well, thank you guys so much. This has been an amazing update. Unfortunately, the country remains largely locked down. Children not in school, college football canceled, and lots of fear. But I think that people need to keep on tuning into this podcast and follow all three of you guys. So it's Dr. Rose, Dr. Nick Dadaro, Dr. Gold, and aflds.com God bless you guys so much. Hope to see you soon. Thank you for joining our program and hopefully in two weeks let's do another update of all this nonsense that's happening. So God bless you guys. Thank you.

A (56:42)

Thanks a lot.

D (56:42)

Thanks Charlie.

B (56:45)

What a great podcast that was. I love to hear from medical professionals that are willing to go against the grain. Please consider supporting us@charliekirk.com support charliekirk.com support if you guys want to win a signed copy of the New York Times bestseller the Maga Doctrine, type in Charlie Kirk show to your podcast provider. Hit subscribe, give us a five star review, screenshot it, and email us freedom charliekirk.com Freedom charliekirk.com Thanks so much for listening everybody. God bless you. God bless our country. Stay safe, stay free.