A Coalition of Faith and Liberty with Jack Hibbs, Bob McEwen, and Rob McCoy

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show – “A Coalition of Faith and Liberty with Jack Hibbs, Bob McEwen, and Rob McCoy” Episode Date: September 5, 2021

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Episode Overview

This episode gathers host Charlie Kirk with Pastor Jack Hibbs, former Congressman Bob McEwen, and Pastor Rob McCoy to discuss the urgent need for churches and Christians to reengage in the cultural and civic life of America through Turning Point Faith. The conversation centers around the fusion of faith, liberty, and the American founding, responding to growing government overreach, and encouraging pastors and church members to actively influence their communities and politics. The tone is urgent, patriotic, faith-driven, and highly critical of both secularism and government encroachment, with an emphasis on reclaiming Christian engagement in public life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Church Involvement Matters in Preserving Liberty

• [02:40] Jack Hibbs stresses that America's foundation is rooted in faith and biblical values. He argues many in the American church have abandoned scripture and must return to its inerrancy and authority to redeem the culture.
  • Quote: “Many pulpits today do not believe in the inerrancy of scripture. We've got to get back to the scripture, back to the Bible, and back to our nation’s roots.” (Jack Hibbs, 02:40)

2. Rousing Pastors and Churches to Engage

• [03:53] Rob McCoy addresses conservative church leaders reluctant to address moral or political issues, insisting biblical principles permeate every aspect of life, not just personal salvation:
  • Quote: “Does the gospel have something to say about how to raise their kids, how to educate their kids?...Well, it has something to say about politics and how your city's supposed to operate.” (Rob McCoy, 03:53)
• [04:58] Explosive growth in churches that have “defied tyranny” during COVID—e.g., mass baptisms and overflowing attendance—reaffirms to the panel that courage in faith leadership inspires the community.

3. Faith and Civic Order: The American Experiment

• [06:06] Bob McEwen connects healthy governance to a transcendent moral order, countering modern identity politics by emphasizing rights come from God—thus uniting, rather than dividing, Americans.
  • Quote: “There are no blonde left-handed rights. There's only rights that come from God and he gave them to all of us...Faith brings us together.” (Bob McEwen, 06:56)
• [08:01] Hibbs and Kirk discuss America’s foundational documents (Magna Carta, Mayflower Compact, and West’s political philosophy)—framing the U.S. as a nation built on biblical self-government and liberty.

4. Fear, Government Overreach, and the Church’s Response

• [15:15] McCoy and Hibbs recall resisting COVID church shutdowns; their stance, aided by Turning Point Faith, emboldened others. They express concern at the American public’s willingness to surrender freedoms "out of fear," equating it to spiritual decline.
• [18:32] Kirk prompts a discussion on Christian attitudes toward fear, with Hibbs urging proportion, perspective, and a biblically rooted fearlessness in light of eternal hope:
  • Quote: “You're going to die sooner or later. Do you know Jesus Christ? This fear should be driving you to church, not away from church.” (Jack Hibbs, 19:09)

5. Cultural Shifts: The 1960s, the Church, and Today’s Crisis

• [23:23–27:45] Kirk and guests critique the shift in American culture from postwar virtue to pleasure and entitlement in the 1960s, linking it to the rise of church disengagement and progressivism in education, government, and morality.
• [25:35] In recounting the rise of the Calvary Chapel movement, McCoy acknowledges the strengths of non-political evangelism but asserts it left a vacuum in civic life now filled by secular ideologies and legislative overreach.

6. The Church and Political Responsibility

• [28:33–31:37] The hosts challenge the widespread misreading of Jesus’ “render to Caesar…” teaching, reasserting the integration (not separation) of faith and all civic spheres.
• [30:16] Romans 13 and church resistance to tyranny: citing Pastor Jonathan Mayhew, they argue that Christians are obligated to resist authority when it ceases to do good.

7. America’s Heritage, Memory, and Education Crisis

• [32:03–44:46] The group laments how historical and biblical literacy has declined, leading young people to be susceptible to anti-American and anti-Christian narratives about the nation’s founders and founding principles.
  • Quote: “If you can't remember your past, then you don't know who you are, therefore you don't know where you're going.” (Bob McEwen, 40:03)
• Emphasis on the consequences of losing historical consciousness—likening it to national Alzheimer’s—and the deliberate effort from the Left to undermine America’s legacy.

8. Moral Order and Civic Trust

• [45:03–48:41] Examples drawn from comparisons with India and other nations to illustrate how biblical and moral teaching (“thou shalt not steal,” “thou shalt not covet”) fosters trust, self-government, lower crime, and prosperity in America—now eroding due to secularization.

9. Ruling Class vs. The Ruled

• [50:01] Kirk critiques the rise of a “ruling class” in the U.S. who exempt themselves from burdens placed on others (e.g., vaccine mandates, education choices), creating a new social and political divide.

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Calls to Action & Practical Outcomes

10. Turning Point Faith: Building a Coalition

• [52:04–54:40] The panel urges pastors and churches to join Turning Point Faith, offering resources and networks to encourage Christian involvement in local civic issues, including school boards and city councils.
  • Quote: “We want to have more Jack Hibbs. We want to have more Rob McCoys...We want to help make that possible.” (Charlie Kirk, 52:04)

11. Evidence of Success: Church Growth and Influence

• [53:28] McCoy reports that, contrary to expectations, taking a bold biblical stance multiplied his church's attendance and impact.

12. Spiritual and Civic Accountability

• [56:23] McEwen warns clergy that disengagement at this pivotal moment will have spiritual consequences, referencing the parable of the talents (Matthew 25):
  • Quote: “If a person is in a position of church leadership...and say what did you do at a time of crisis? ‘I buried my talent.’ And Christ told that story...If you stand before God and say that you were in a position of responsibility at a time of great crisis in our nation, there will be a penalty for it.” (Bob McEwen, 57:18)

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• “We need to get back to a culture that honors God and does the right thing.” (Jack Hibbs, 02:40)
• “Every church that's defied the tyranny and has stood, their doors are being darkened by people who would never darken the doors of a church.” (Rob McCoy, 04:58)
• “There are no blonde left-handed rights. There's only rights that come from God and he gave them to all of us. As long as we did so, we were one as a nation.” (Bob McEwen, 06:56)
• “You cannot have human liberty without having a heart that's constrained. An uncontrolled heart leads to chaos.” (Bob McEwen, 12:05)
• “This fear should be driving you to church, not away from church.” (Jack Hibbs, 19:09)
• “A nation that forgets its past is lost.” (Bob McEwen, 40:03)
• “If a person is in a position of church leadership...and say what did you do at a time of crisis? ‘I buried my talent.’” (Bob McEwen, 57:18)

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Suggested Next Steps

• For Pastors/Church Leaders:
  Visit tpusa.com/faith. Join the network, use provided resources, and consider hosting community events addressing current civil and cultural challenges from a biblical perspective.
• For Congregants:
  Approach your pastors and encourage participation in civic and cultural life beyond church walls, referencing the episode as a starting point.
• General Listeners:
  Seek churches that are actively engaging with societal issues in a faith-driven manner, and consider supporting Turning Point Faith’s initiatives.

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For Questions or Church Connections: Email [e-mail]

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Summary prepared for listeners who want a comprehensive yet clear understanding of the episode’s content and its relevance to contemporary faith and civic engagement.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, everybody. Happy Sunday. On this episode of the Charlie Kirk show, we have Jack Hibbs, Rob McCoy and Congressman Bob McEwen brought to you by Turning Point Faith. That's tpusa.com faith if you're involved in a church, get that church signed up for our Faith Network, a coalition for [e-mail] if you are a pastor, you could go to tpusa.com faith and do the same. Turning Point Faith is going to be the largest coalition of people filled with faith. So to contest for liberty here in America, to help save Western civilization culturally and help us try and turn this around, because we've been given a gift to live in the freest country and the greatest country ever to exist in the history of the world. Email us your thoughts freedomarliekirk.com this episode is brought to you advertiser free. So if you want to support us, you could do [e-mail] support I want to thank Nathan for supporting us. Thank you. I want to thank Brett for supporting us.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

And I want to thank Donovan for supporting [e-mail] support when you guys get behind the work that we are doing, you allow us to hire more staff. Consider chipping in and supporting the work we're doing. It really does help us. And thank you sincerely from the bottom of our heart to allow us to continue to fight and to contest for your values. CharlieKirk.com support this is brought to you by Turningpoint Faith. TPUSA.com faith where we play offense with a sense of urgency to win the American culture war. Jack Kibbs, Rob McCoy, Bob McKeown, buckle up. Here we go.

[B]

Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[C]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[D]

I want you to know we are

[B]

lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[D]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[E]

I want to thank Charlie.

[C]

He's an incredible guy.

[E]

His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one

[C]

of the most powerful youth organizations ever

[D]

created, Turning Point usa.

[B]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Hey, everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show. And we are here promoting Turning Point Faith. That is why we are here. Tpusa.com faith this is going to be broadcasted over many different channels on our podcast feed, on The Turning Point USA YouTube, on Jack Hibbs YouTube channel, on Rob McCoy's resurrected YouTube channel. Favor give it back to him and Bob McKeown on your cassette tapes. We are going to be broadcasting this tpusa.com faith and just tell you a little about turning Point faith. We want to bring a coalition of liberty between churches and grassroots Americans to try and save Western civilization. Jack, why is it so important that churches and pastors rise up and do that?

[C]

Yeah, listen, first of all, the foundation is the fact that the scripture teaches us that God's word is sure and certain. We have departed from God's word. Many pulpits today do not believe in the inerrancy of scripture. We've got to get back to the scripture, back to the Bible, and back to our nation's roots. A lot of people struggle with, well, that's political and that's faith. When you go to the foundation of America, it was all faith that drove this nation into existence. We need to get back to a culture that honors God and does the right thing.

[B]

Are you starting to see that change amongst other pastors, at least in your

[C]

region, Believe it or not, starting to see that change in Southern Babylonia or California? Southern California. It's happening. We're so excited. And, yeah, it's changing, and people are waking up to the truth.

[B]

So, Rob and Jack, either of you could take this, but what do you have to say for pastors that are listening right now? Or there are some people that sit on elder boards and they say, we don't do that. We don't talk about moral issues. We just do the gospel. I agree with you, Charlie, politically. I listen to the Charlie Kirk Show. I listen to you, Rob, but that's not for our church. You know, we don't do that here. Why is that a misguided view?

[E]

Does the gospel have something to say about their marriage? Does the gospel have something to say about how to raise their kids, how to educate their kids? Well, it has something to say about politics and how your city's supposed to operate and your state and your nation. So they need to know that, and it's critical for them to know that. But if they really believe in the separation of church and state, if. If they've been inculcated with that, now they're realizing, wait a minute, the state is stepping into the church, and now they're awakening to that and they're asking the right questions. How do we stop this infringement of our freedoms? And the answer is always found in the church.

[B]

So, Rob, you and I talked a couple years ago about the need for something like Turning Point Faith and just again, for people watching it's tpusa.com faith you've informally seen some of the pastors, we have started to gather and educate and hopefully inspire. Talk a little about what you've started to see nationally from some of our friends, from Ken Graves in Maine to our friends in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and Pastor Cody to Pastor Frank in Chattanooga, Tennessee, God is moving here.

[E]

Every one of these churches that opened up and defied tyranny in their state, they've exploded exponentially in growth. You've baptized 2,000 people? More than 2,000 in nine months. We baptized more people in six months than was the attendance of our church six months ago. You know, Ken Graves has experienced that. Every church that's defied the tyranny and has stood their doors are being darkened by people who would never darken the doors of a church. And they're coming in droves because they're seeing that this, this faith that they're espousing actually has legs on it and means something for their life because nobody wants to lose their freedoms. And they're all seeing this infringement. And those churches are open, have the answers.

[B]

So, Bob, far too often we allow our political discourse to all of a sudden kind of go into this moment where we say, we're not gonna really call right from wrong. You could do whatever you want to do, which inevitably leads to tyranny. How important is it that Christians and the church actually start to get re engaged in this particular moment? Because absent a moral transcendent order, then it's just one opinion over the other, which you know what that means. Whoever has the bigger stick ends up winning.

[D]

And America wanted to abandon that. You asked the question, what would they do if people are involved in the leadership of the church? What if a person is really not involved in the church much at all or having a question spiritually? Why would turning point faith be of interest? You know, we all have three parts. We have a body, all of us have one. Some have more than we wish we had, but we have a soul and a spirit. A soul is the mind or the will. You make up your mind, the will or the emotions, but then the spirit. And if you don't understand the spiritual part, you can't lead the spirit of the corps, the esprit de corps, the spirit of a nation. Leadership requires spirit. Spirit is a spiritual encounter. If a person doesn't understand that, then all they do is focus on the flesh. And so they're consumed by all of that and they miss what's going on in life and the benefit of Turning point faith is that not only do we have to make the mental decisions, understanding the history of and be informed. Not only do we have to have health and take care of ourselves and not allow people to steal it from us, but then we have to have a spiritual aspect. And the spiritual aspect of all the great leaders of our nation have understood. And what the church provides is access to a heavenly father who knows and loves us. So if we're going to make a turning point for our marriage turning point for an individual, we also have to have an appreciation for a turning point of faith. And you mentioned about the nation, the nation that doesn't do that, then it's only who has the bigger stick, who has the bigger group. And you can tell it by listening to a politician for 60 seconds. When they talk about, they talk about women's rights and they talk about Hispanic rights, they talk about there are no blonde left handed rights. There's only rights that come from God and he gave them to all of us. And as long as we did so, then we were one as a nation. The idea to separate us out by skin color or by gender or by anything else, that is what separates America. And what does it mean faith do? Faith brings us together. So it's an essential ingredient in all that we're doing.

[B]

And Jack, if not the church, then who?

[C]

Well, exactly. That there's no other hope. The only hope for the United States, which by the way is the only hope for all nations. Doesn't that what the scriptures say? Old Testament to New Testament? The hope of the nations is the Lord Jesus Christ himself. It's got to be the church. It was the church at the beginning of this nation. A lot of people, and I'm sad to say there's pastors that don't even know what the Magna Carta is or the Mayflower content.

[B]

Let's talk about that. What is the Magna Carta, Jack?

[C]

It's probably the foundational birth certificate of what we know in our liberty and freedoms today from the Magna Carta, that declaration of individual rights and freedoms that have been given to us by God. Our original founding fathers, Bradford, and those on the Mayflower. Their next authorship was the Mayflower Compact. And it tells you right there that there's these structures, these rules, guardrails I'll call them, that are given to us by God. And from those writings we talked earlier before about John Locke, I think 1500 references that John Locke wrote from scripture regarding the government of man and how we should live. I mean it's overwhelmingly obvious that we're created by God. He is based, he says, his image in us. We think freedom, we know what tyranny is. Look what's happening right now in Afghanistan. We're watching the big stick overrule. The freedom and the love that people have to be free.

[B]

And it's so important. You mentioned the Magna Carta and the Mayflower Compact. The Mayflower Compact was written actually at sea amongst people that did not even know they were going to survive the trip.

[C]

And not all were believers.

[B]

That's what's so incredible. It was 120 families. I think I could be wrong with the number. And there were some defectors too. Some people didn't even sign it. They just left. And you know, they went. Who knows where they went. But if you read the Mayflower Compact, it's so tightly written, but it's basically, if we survive, here's what we're going to agree to in a transcendent order. Here's how we're gonna govern ourselves. And what's amazing, it was an impromptu kind of ad hoc creation in the middle of a storm of how does one govern themselves? When you go to something barren. That is Locke's question, isn't it?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Of who is a man in the state of nature.

[C]

Yeah.

[E]

And they were blown off course.

[B]

So they were supposed to go somewhere completely different.

[E]

They would have been under the authority of the king had they not been blown off course. And they ended up in a place where they had to come up with their own political structure. And so. And part of that is a declaration of the furtherance of the gospel that's in the Mayflower compound.

[C]

It says so.

[D]

Yeah, the glory of God and the furtherance of the Gospel.

[E]

Furtherance of the gospel. And then the Magna Carta is this idea that.

[B]

Which came a couple hundred years before. A hundred years before 1220 or 1219 or something.

[E]

And they were stating that the king may be the sovereign, but he has limited rights over man because there are rights that we're given by God that no man can take. And so that was the first of self rule that started to establish in the world, especially 6,000 years of recorded history. And you talk about the 5,000 year leap.

[B]

Yes, I was right. It was 1215, right around that I was off by a year. So, yes, the 5,000 year leap, which we take for granted in this kind of construct of the founders. But this idea of how does one govern themselves has been the great question of human existence. And only thanks to the Bible and understanding the Bible and applying it through obedient teaching, can you even get to a construct that respects the natural law? And now a Republican style of government. We didn't invent that. The Greeks tried it. The Italian city states tried it, tried it. But if you read Federalist 48 and Federalist 52 and Federalist 60, they mention the Italian city states so many times and what happens is they crumble once they get too big. They crumble because of licentiousness, because of greed, because of incurring territories. So the question of the founders, and I'll give this to you Bob, that Hamilton, Madison and Jay were wrestling with in the anonymously written newspaper articles in New York, written as Publius, can we have a big, small r Republican style of government? How is this possible?

[D]

It's dependent upon the. You cannot have human liberty without having a heart that's constrained. An uncontrolled heart leads to chaos. And so there has to be outward control. Everybody is disciplined either from within or without. And if you're undisciplined within, then you end up in jail because they force you what to do. And what they pointed out in the founding of our nation is that we have to be constrained by what God says and if we do, then we'll prosper. You mentioned about Locke and the Second Treatise. Every member of the Constitutional Convention had a copy of that on their desk.

[E]

Yes.

[D]

So they referred to it repeatedly. That's why we brought it up here.

[B]

Well, and they also, they knew their Hobbes too. And so this is very important is that Thomas Hobbes is with the other social contract theorist who wrote the book Leviathan and Fauci and many of the leaders today, they are disciples of Hobbes, which is that people are awful to each other. They're nasty, they're brutish. We would agree with that observation of human nature. But. But then Hobbes says, therefore they need a strong government. And so the founders knew that. They said, man, that's not how God wants us to live. He doesn't want us to live with this kind of tyrannical.

[E]

He experienced a church government of that sort.

[B]

Talk about that.

[E]

Well, the Catholic Church had that hierarchical, heavy handed, centralized government that dominated Western Europe or Europe and Western Europe and Western Europe. And so with the Reformation, that's where this idea of this exploration of civil government came about with the Geneva Bible. And then taking a. As Tyndale had written, that word in Matthew 16:18 isn't church, it's ecclesia, which means assembly or public square. And I love the study you've done on that, that it existed hundreds of years before Christ co opted it.

[B]

That's right. Aristotle used it, Plato used it, Socrates used it.

[E]

And it was dealing with the citizens in that community, how they would live and they would work for the laws in that ecclesia. And now Jesus says, the gates of hell will not prevail upon this ecclesia, this public square. I will build my church gates and slave. And so they're setting people free. And they knew that this, this oligarchy, it would just manifest itself, whether it's a pope or a king. It's not freedom for man. And so that, that was the transition and that's.

[C]

But why, why is the public square such an important topic? Why is it the target? What happens in the public square?

[E]

Laws.

[C]

Laws. Laws are passed.

[B]

Habits, customs.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Obedience.

[C]

You either going to serve what comes out of the public square or you're going to serve whatever comes out of the public square. Right. If it's tyranny, if it's the leadership that we're seeing, if we're seeing this happen. Now look, we're hailing from California. We have seen governments say this is the church. They not only said, this is what the police will do and this is what the city council will do and this is what the county is going to do, this is what the church is going to do. And that's where as believers, Turning Point faith, that's where this stops for us. The Christian should be the best citizen, hands down, of anybody in the community. But when an edict comes that has no regard for God, then we've got to obey God.

[E]

Charlie, I want to say thank you to Turning Point because the idea of turning Point faith, when Jack and I were under the gun in California and we were facing, we call him Governor Mussolini when we were facing him and he was coming after us and we stood our ground because he may be the governor, but he doesn't have power over God and his bride, the church. And you stood with us and all of the resources, but still there weren't a lot of people out there. And all the resources of Turning Point and all the encouragement, especially the social media following it put a light on it. And then they backed off. They backed off of us, they backed off on you.

[B]

So what I could tell you is this, and Bob, I want to get your comments on this. When we started to really highlight Jack and Rob, what you were doing, we'd get messages from the buckle, the Bible Belt, in Mississippi, in Alabama, in South Carolina, in Georgia and Texas. I wish I had a Jack Gibbs and Rob McCoy in my local area. And it's, whoa. All of a sudden it's the people that are in the remnant of tyranny that are now fighting for liberty and the people that kind of have it in Alabama and Mississippi, where they're a little less likely to kind of contest. Not to say there's no good pastors in Alabama. That's not my point. But there definitely was, at least from the messages we got, kind of a desire for this sort of a pastor and kind of where it was a little bit more of a comfortable scenario, wasn't the case. Is there suddenly, said Bob, that in a kind of weird turn of events, some of all of this tyranny, authoritarianism, the mask mandates, the vaccine mandates, is that going to in some ways create an equal and opposite reaction where we're going to all of a sudden see bold and courageous pastors unlike ever before?

[D]

I certainly pray so because I didn't think that we would be in this condition to start with. If you would have told me two and a half years ago, if you told me that the Stalin lands in New York and gave an edict to Americans, close all your churches for the rest of the year, if Hitler had marched down Pennsylvania Avenue and said, close all your, we would have stood up with, we would never think about such a thing. But we have these governors, these mayors, these people sitting around. This governor up in Oregon says that churches can't even gather.

[B]

Kate Brown.

[D]

And the idea that those people, and that here's the point, though, goes to your question. The idea that Americans succumb to it was real startling to me. And when I would see these young girls snap and bark at you for not having a diaper on your face, the idea that hanging toilet paper from your nose will stop a disease is so fascinating that people were so enamored by it and would succumb to it was truly startling. So in answer to your question, I think now people are going to see the separation and we've seen how vulnerable we were, that we were willing to allow people just to write a piece of paper. And the CDC in Atlanta, who elected by no one and not a person can tell me who they are, make an order to say that you cannot charge rent in your apartment in California and Americans will succumb to it. That's what very dangerous. And I would just say, as having served in government, that that is very frightening to me because America cannot be free if Americans do not want to be free. And what we now see the distinction we see the difference is, and people need to. From now on, no more sleeping because the gate, the barbarians are at the door and we must stand up.

[C]

It takes us to what you're doing here, Charlie. People did the stupidest things because they were terrified, because of fear.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

The faith went out the window. The fear came in and reduced them to a nerve ending.

[B]

So let me ask you this. Some well meaning Christians email me, they say, charlie, I know I'm not supposed to have a spirit of fear or but rationally and reasonably, I'm very afraid of getting the virus because of this reason and this reason and that reason. How do we balance not having. Because Aristotle talked about having the moderation of all things. Right. So you don't want to all of a sudden kind of drive on 1 hours of sleep and not wear your seat. You don't want to be reckless. Right, Jack? How do you balance that?

[C]

Yeah. First of all, this is a good warning. How many people in 2020 and 2021 have died of heart attacks, bronchial infections, diabetes? We don't know. I've got doctors who have told me we don't know because everything has been labeled and wrapped around Covid. For example, that fear factor has skewed everything. We've had scientists tell us we won't know the data regarding the future. It messes up everything. But having said that, what are we afraid of? I'm afraid of getting it. Are you afraid of getting diabetes? Do you watch what you eat? Are you afraid? No. No one's afraid of those things. It has been so talked up and I'm not. Look, it's a very, very serious illness, I get it. But it's not the only illness that's out there. The point that I think has happened across this nation and around the world is people all of a sudden became very, very fearful of dying. And my argument is this, you're going to die sooner or later. Do you know? Jesus Christ, this fear should be driving you to church, not away from church.

[B]

Do you think that's a love of the world, Jack?

[C]

A love of the world or for the world?

[B]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Is that like for example, Bob, in the 1960s we had a pandemic and we handled it totally differently. Do you think people are more attached to the world than the word?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And that's one of the reasons we reacted the way we did?

[C]

Yes, absolutely. And it's sad and it's sadder when it's manifested in the pulpit and in the Ministry where? That's where the leadership should come from. We should steer them through the waters of crisis. And when pastors are silent, look, we're to lay down our lives first for the flock. We're to give them direction. Luther did it during the plague. Spurgeon did it during the cholera epidemic. They didn't shut their doors. This is the first time we've ever quarantined the healthy people.

[D]

Can I just jump on what Jack is saying about the fear? I think we should really hit it 365 times. In the scripture, it says, fear not. God knows that we are susceptible to fear. The night that he was born, the angels appeared. First words out of their mouth, fear not. For behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy. When Christ is walking on the water, he says to him, fear not. Fear hath torments. And so therefore, he hath not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind. Those are mirror opposites of fear. When you're fearful, you're weak. He's given us the spirit of power, of love. You cannot love a person you're afraid of. Those dear folks in Kabul are not loving the Taliban. They're afraid of them. Love and a sound mind. When you're afraid, you don't think straight. So he has given us a spirit of power. That's the opposite of fear. Fear is how, since man is susceptible to it, tyrants always use it to control. We had dinner, Andy Andrews and I, and he was so frustrated, explaining as to why he saw these Jewish fathers loading their children onto the boxcars. He said, how in the world you see one little Nazi down at the end of the train station with a rifle. They could have overrun him. Why did they do that? Well, what they told him was that, you know the enemy is coming and things haven't been very good lately, and so it's very dangerous. And so what you need to do is get your family together tomorrow morning. And if everybody gets afraid, then it'll panic and it won't be good. So you're the father, and you have to go home and make an inventory of everything you had, all the pianos and paintings and pictures and things, but take just enough for overnight, because we're going to take you to a better place. We're going to lie to you, and in order to save your life, we're going to make you safe. Going to take you to a new place where there's better jobs, there'll be better schools, there'll be a Better place. And then if you have the inventory, we'll go back and get the rest. But the children are going to be afraid and the wife is going to take the key from you. And so you have to be solid. And Tomorrow morning at 10 o' clock at the train station, walk them on. That's what evil has used is fear. Americans were known to not be fearful. They're the ones that marched into the Battle of the Bulge when everybody else has fallen away, what the American GI marched into Normandy, et cetera. This idea of us succumbing to fear will take our liberty. And we've seen it happen and the time has come for leaders to stop it.

[B]

So now I really want to kind of get to just America in general, a non political discussion, just what we're seeing around us and what can be done about this regime and what we're living under. I want to pick up what you said, though. Almost all this changed in the 1960s. There's a phenomenal book I quoted all the time, Age of Entitlement by Christopher Caldwell. I just, I told you about it last week, actually. We were having dinner together where he really pinpoints 1963, 64, 65 is when America refounded itself. And not for the better, by the way. Refounded itself based on prioritizing pleasure as prioritizing rebellion, prioritizing dissension, prioritizing authoritarianism. And I think that's an important moment because we're really living in a post 1960s America where that spirit of fear was kind of rejected in the 1940s, 1950s and the 60s had a totally different attitude. And I think that's important to kind of being able to tell ourselves how we navigate that. Also, Rob, in the late 1960s, early 70s, we saw a different form of Christianity come in America. Talk about that.

[E]

So Chuck Smith came on the scene, especially for Capri Chapel in 68 and the idea of evangelism. And they brought in syncopated rhythms, which probably disappointed you and Liz, but you know, maranatha music. And what they did in California, interestingly enough, is Chuck taught the Bible verse by verse, chapter by chapter, book by book. But he stayed away from politics because in 68, when he started it, Martin Luther King, Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Had been shot. Bobby Kennedy had been shot in LA. 63, JFK had been shot. Then you had the My Lai massacre, the Tet offensive. And all these young people who had been seeking hope and change had checked out of the church and explored Eastern religions and drug use. And they came Back disillusioned because all their political heroes were dead. And Chuck avoided politics, but he taught the way to salvation. And it grew 10,000% in 52 years.

[C]

That's right.

[E]

There's more Calvary chapels south of Van Eisenhower than Dunkin Donuts.

[B]

There's a lot of Dunkin Donuts.

[E]

Yeah, there's a lot of Dunkin Donuts. And so the lion's share of those churches are in California. 10,000% growth, harvest crusades, Greg, Laurie. But in 68, we had the fifth largest GDP and it was a state of the future.

[C]

That's right.

[E]

But he avoids politics because the kids are burned out on it. I am grateful to Chuck for my verse by verse, you know, systematic study of the scriptures. I do not resent that. I am who I am because he did what he did. But we missed something because we didn't engage in the public square. The Ecclesia Matthew 16. We avoided that. And now California no longer has the fifth largest gdp. We have the sixth, maybe seventh. We have the highest gas tax, sales tax, income tax, highest debt, highest unemployment, highest poverty, highest homelessness, and we've aborted more children than any other state in the union. Authors of no Fault Divorce, transgender bathroom bills. And that's because the church didn't engage in the public square.

[C]

But listen, be specific, though, for those that are watching right now, there was no instruction to now that you're a Christian, let the light of Jesus shine out of you everywhere. Not just at Boeing or Raytheon or at the county. Run for school board, right? Run for city council. And that's where we're seeing a change in California now. But is it Proverbs 29:2, I believe that says that when the wicked are in authority, the people groan, but when the righteous rule, people rejoice. And to me, that is a mandate to let your light so shine everywhere. Now, politics is not my thing, but if I was an engineer or if I was a school bus driver, I would be a Christian first and then a school bus driver. And so why can't you be a mayor? Right, but a Christian first. It's not that you're going to Christianize your city or America. You're going to be the Christian witness. The kingdom of God's in heaven. We're not going to bring it down here and make it happen. But until we do go to heaven, we need to shine that light everywhere.

[D]

Bob Rob was going to say.

[E]

Well, I was just going to add that with that revolution that occurred that you speak of, there was a communist invasion into the nation in the sense that they occupied the folks that were in the 60s and 70s in the war riots that ended up coming back to church. But some of them now, they become the professors and the teachers and it even comes into the church and there's affluence after we come back after the war and America prospers. And then we helicopter parent these kids, and then we avoid participating in their school boards and leave it up to the government, and we put more reliance on the government and we just pursue all of our baubles and trinkets. And the next thing you know, we've lost the education of an entire generation. And the church has been influenced as well.

[C]

So well said. One of the most misunderstood but often quoted lines is, render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's and to God the things that are God's, as though there's a separation of church and state. When Jesus said that, give me a coin, give me a coin, and he holds up that coin and he asks the people, whose inscription's on this? Caesar's. Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's. To God the things that are God's. Every Jew standing in that neighborhood knew exactly what Jesus meant. We don't get it in the West.

[B]

What did he mean?

[C]

We missed it. It's this. Give to Caesar the coin. His face is on it. Give it to him. But render to God the things that are God's. Every Jew would have said, brilliant. He just said everything, including Caesar in that coin. Rome itself, Caesar's palace, Caesar's salad belongs to God. They all knew that. We westernized it and somehow created a separation. Jesus said, it's all under God.

[E]

The earth is the Lord's.

[B]

So another.

[A]

Go ahead, Baba.

[D]

Well, Rob explains that the best. It's very effective to then take that and say, I shouldn't be involved in government. And then when pastors want to keep people, they want to protect their flock. And they can tell when people get involved in anything else, in sports or in whatever. And so they say, you need to stay here because this world is not our home and we're just passing through and they don't want me. And they can sense when people start to get involved in politics. You need to explain why this lighthouse for the gospel, why this nation so abundantly blessed more than any place else in the entire planet, why it prospered in this idea of withdrawing, as in Romans that they use a few verses, explain why it's wrong.

[E]

Well, Romans 13, that God appoints all positions of authority and that we're to submit to them, and they're put there for our good, and they're to do good. And then, as we told earlier with Jonathan Mayhew, he died in 1766, but he was the minister who exegeted Romans 13 and shared with all the soon to be founding fathers on the Eastern seaboard, First and Second Great Awakening. And he looked at that passage and he said, yes, God appoints all positions of authority, and yes, we're to submit to them, but they're therefore good to do good, and if they cease to do good, they cease to be the authority. And he coined the phrase disobedience to tyrants is obedience to God, which John Adams said was the inspiration for the War of Independence. And so for us, he died in 1766, and there wasn't a constitutional republic like you were describing. Now we are in a constitutional republic that defines in Romans 13 who the authority is. And it's in the first three words of the Preamble, the Constitution. We, the people, and anyone who governs, governs by our consent and its power on loan from the sovereign. And when they violate the oath of office to swear to defend a constitution that puts parameters on their ability to infringe on our inalienable rights, we must hold them accountable. And that's what we're not instructing in the churches to do.

[D]

And that's where we must step forward. So we were very critical of the Jews that when the trains went by and you could hear the people crying out, that they would stand and sing loud enough so that they wouldn't hear it, they were at least having church.

[E]

Yeah, yeah.

[D]

Can you comprehend that in America, for the last year and a half, they've been willing to let some bureaucrat say, you can't have church at all. So we thought we would never go down that road. That's where the crisis is at this moment.

[B]

So, Jack, how is it that the

[C]

freedoms of this nation and the wealth, the prosperity, the rights that we have predominantly now, First Amendment. There's a reason why it's. The First Amendment was structured by and created by men who knew what the Bible said, and they quoted the Bible for a pastor in this day and age to say, well, we don't get involved in that. Well, do you enjoy your freedom? Do you believe in protecting that freedom? They start to stumble. They don't know what to do about that. I think that comes from not knowing the Christian foundation of this nation. You know, in 2009, I believe Barack Obama was speaking in Cairo, Egypt. And he said that America was never a Christian nation.

[B]

That's part of his apology to her.

[C]

He literally said, america was never a Christian nation. He threw the Mayflower compact out the window. He threw our founding documents out the window. Most of America probably nodded their head in agreement because they had not been taught that in church or public school. They're not being taught history.

[B]

I was taught that in public school. And it's hard to refute when you're 16 years old and someone talks from authority. Oh, they were all a bunch of atheists and deists. It's a total lie. And it doesn't even get close to understanding, first and foremost, the philosophical and religious basis of these texts. I mean, you just take the Declaration of Independence, which is an objectively beautiful document written by, let's just say if you had to put one president, one founding father, who was the least Christian, it would be Thomas Jefferson. He himself read the Bible. He said the Bible was the ultimate standard. He put the Bible in schools. They said, oh, he edited his own Bible. Whatever. Fine. Let's say he was the least Christian. Right, Jack? Well, the least Christian founding father. He himself understood what the Bible said better than even, you know, some of the best Christians in America today.

[C]

The least.

[B]

I'm saying that in quotes. You know what I'm saying?

[C]

Exactly. So the least. Jefferson had his slaves learn English from the Bible, which was against the crown of England, by the way. And that Jefferson, in the editing of the Bible, the New Testament, Jefferson says that it was a tract, a tract for somebody to get like a Cliff Note version of the gospel.

[B]

Well, and I mean, Thomas Jefferson. I'm a big Thomas Jefferson fan. I think he gets totally misunderstood. He blamed King George for bringing slaves to America. In the original draft of the Declaration, he fought for the abolition of slavery. As governor of Virginia, he signed the moratorium of new slaves coming into America. It was one of his first acts in March of 1807. But anyway, what I was saying about Thomas Jefferson, which, even if you look at the first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, it's an objectively beautiful paragraph because he appeals to divine, eternal truth of order, laws of nature, and nature's God. He says that all human beings are equal, as you say, Bob, equal at the cross, equal as made in the image of God. And he also emphasizes life, liberty, the pursuit of virtue. And it used to be, it was property, and it got changed to pursuit of happiness. They didn't want to totally plagiarize John Locke. But one of the most amazing Things of the entire opening is that when in the course of human events, that's an eternal claim. That means that it's right anytime, any people. Anytime, any people, anywhere, anywhere, any place. It could be Papua New guinea, it could be Indonesia. These are, this is a human claim. The Declaration makes the argument that we are human beings. We are the speaking beings. Aristotle said we are the reason beings, as it says in Isaiah 1:18. Let us, let us reason together. Therefore, since we are the reason beings, we are the speaking beings. Here's how we're supposed to be treated. And so it starts really big. It's real narrow. And by the way, King George, you didn't do any, you did all this wrong. Foreign powers to Quebec and taxes and this stuff and all that. Then it gets really broad, which people don't talk about the end of the Declaration, which then they appeal to their Creator. We appeal this to God and then to our fellow man. Our lives, our fortune, our sacred honor. They're pledging it to themselves, but first they pledge to their Creator. That's a profound moment in history.

[D]

And your question about how do you respond to that as a 16 year old? And I think that's important to address that. All these say, but this book says that and this book says it goes on and on. The first book that said that George Washington was promiscuous was in 1924. And it was totally torn apart a year later. But then five or six years later people refer to it, then people ten years later refer to that one. And so now they have all the claims quoting each other.

[B]

And that is heretical. George Washington was like the most pious, very moral man, moral, loyally married man.

[D]

Same way with Benjamin Franklin. You can't find anything prior to World War I, all this idea, people will tell you that he had all these children. The list goes on. The example. The point is that when they did it, let's take for example the Thomas Jefferson Bible, he cut out parts of it and paid to have it printed to be given to the missionaries to, to teach Christ to the Indians. And he didn't want it to get caught up in all this other part. He wanted to simplify it so they could get right to the point.

[C]

The tract.

[D]

Now you don't. That's right. And so now a theist wouldn't do that. And they say you can go to the Library of Congress and find it. And that's exactly correct. You can. And you can see what he did. He took that and printed it himself because he wasn't going to Give him the whole Bible. He was going to give him a part to start and they took 180 degrees off. Now, now you have all these quote experts, these professors, these people in these colleges that preach the exact untruth, the error. And as a 16 year old it's hard to respond to, but it's important to say where do they get their facts and quote each other.

[B]

The resources exist. Jack, you are chomping at the bit

[C]

to get into it because I stood at the Jefferson Memorial listening to a national park ranger completely pitched the opposite of what you just said and made Jefferson into a monster.

[B]

Oh man.

[C]

And I sat there and I was with Lisa's uncle and we just couldn't take it anymore. I thought we were going to get arrested, but we just couldn't let the lie continue. But exactly. You just repeated. Didn't Marx or Stalin or Hegel somebody say it? Just repeat.

[B]

Yes, you repeat a lot of Stalin, you repeat a lie.

[C]

Who's the German guy? The German?

[B]

Friedrich Nietzsche. You got Heidegger, you got Marx.

[D]

Goebbels.

[C]

Goebbels, yeah, just repeat it enough.

[B]

Joseph Goebbels, Yeah, he was the propagandist for the.

[C]

Just repeat it enough.

[B]

But this is important because if you don't know where you came from, then you don't know where to go. So this is something that conservatives quite honestly have not understood as well as the left. This is an interesting thing. I want to get your opinion on this, Bob, because you lived through movement conservatism in the 80s and I really want to pick your brain on this because I think this applies where the left always knew if they were able to indict our founding, then the country can unravel. This is why everyone's so Interested in Ancestry. Ancestry.com Right. We want to know who came before us. There's a yearning in your soul. The Bible speaks to this too. I mean Luke and Matthew, if I'm not mistaken, both open up with the genealogy correct. Of either Joseph or Mary. Or I think, remember once you've come

[C]

one through Joseph, one through Mary and

[B]

the genealogy of such, and the Bible is very clear about passing customs down from one generation to the other. There's a yearning in your soul for that. So then you have the 16 year old citizen who's looking around and looking at hope. They don't even have the flag anymore in the classrooms. They're taking that down. But let's pretend there's a flag around. They say, I wonder what that means to me. And the left has Always known if they can make that flag be something other than something virtuous or admirable, they've won the entire debate. In the 1980s, Reagan was very clear about bringing back this idea of kind of the magnanimous conservative, but the unapologetically patriotic conservative. I hate to be critical of Reagan because he was so phenomenal, but there were some things he did that were questionable with immigration and many other things. But just Broadly, in the 80s, Bob, and early 90s, do you think that we didn't take the government education problem serious enough?

[D]

100%. Why is Alzheimer's such a horrible disease? Because a person doesn't know. They don't remember their past. If you can't remember your past, then you don't know who you are, therefore you don't know where you're going. And if your wife is dying of cancer, you can speak to her and make pledges and hold her hand. And if she goes into eternity, it's as sad as can be. But when a person is there and they don't know who you are, and they don't know who they are, it's a tragic, tragic. Now, what has been a deliberate attempt to take this 4% of the population of the world, as long as there is an American on the planet, they know that that's the place that I can go to to escape. If a ship is attacked on the high seas, as there's an American, they'll come save me. If somebody is cheating on a patent, I know that American will protect us. If somebody's printing artificial money in the money supply any place on the planet, American banking system will shut it down. America is the standard for righteousness. That is so true. If we can just take away what America is, then we can give it Alzheimer's. So how do we do that? We have to go back and take all the people as to what they did. And we distort it, we lie about it, we twist it, we make it untrue. Is it true? And so when you. I would encourage everyone to read David Barton's book on Thomas Jefferson. And when it came out, all of these people attacked him as he wasn't a historian. All he did was take what Jefferson said and what he did. And they all then began quoting each other from these books in the 1950s and 60s.

[B]

But they don't do original source documents,

[D]

not what he did. So in order to take down America, you must first say that those people that did these things were not trustworthy. Then it was built on a lie. And so they misrepresent. That's why it was on the 1776 Commission, because we've got to understand America was founded on July 4, 1776, not in 1619, 150 years before Thomas Jefferson or George Washington was even born. But they tried to cloud the two so that America doesn't know what they were, therefore they don't know who they are. And that's why that's the war that we're involved in right now. So the question is, what is the most important thing that we can do? In the 1980s, 90s, we knew that the educational system was being stolen out from under us, but we didn't want to get involved.

[B]

Why? Why was there this unwillingness? Bob?

[D]

I'd have to think about that a bit. Go ahead, Rob.

[E]

Prosperity.

[D]

I was going to say they didn't see the fear.

[B]

It was the ego, the embedded growth obligation. Things are just going to keep on getting better and we don't want to upset the apple car.

[D]

And the country was always. America was never the premier nation on Earth until 1947. And then it's so important after that. It was in a telegram that was sent from the Prime Minister of Britain, was sent to Harry Truman on April 7, 1947 and said unless the United States intervened in the Cyprus crisis, that the crown had neither the capacity nor the will to be involved. And with that, the torch was passed to the United States of America became the premier nation on earth. Never in the history of man has one nation become the premier nation on earth without what it didn't seek it. The Indians, the Romans knew what they had to do. The French knew what they had. The British knew what they had to do. The Greeks knew. Everybody sought it. The single exception to that is the United States of America that was given world leadership not because it sought it, but because people trusted it. And we didn't like it, we didn't like to pay for it. We wish it would go away, but we've handed it more responsibly than, than anyplace else. Now in the process of that, we then were in a competition for 70 years. At the end we could get into how it happened. But nevertheless, after World War II, we gave away for that eight year period, gave away all of Central and Eastern Europe to the Soviet Union. And so then we had this competition going on. Ronald Reagan. And then by that time, when Eisenhower came in, he said, well, we have to contain communism, stay where we are. Reagan came in and said, we don't have to contain communist, we can transcend communism and went after it and collapsed it. Now these people that are in their twenties have lived in a period unlike any time in the history of the world.

[C]

That's right.

[D]

Where there is one nation completely unchallenged economically, military and politically on the planet. And so they thought this is how it is. And so they think I can just go ahead and we'll take socialism from Venezuela and we'll take this from there. And they don't understand that none of those people would do anything. If a ship is lost, if a plane is lost over the Alps this afternoon, flying over Africa tonight, they're using a global positioning system conceived, invented and maintained by Americans. The list goes on and on. So that. How did we get in this mess? We took it for granted that freedom was in our DNA, that America would always be safe. We could make any compromise that we could make and we'll just let it go and we won't get him. Bless me, my wife, Bless John, his wife, us four, no more. Amen. We're just going to focus on ourselves. And the process is about to come back and snap us. That's why this awakening that we're enjoying at the moment is essential. And that's why Turning Point has been so prosperous, because that's what the world is looking for.

[E]

Charlie Vishal Magnawaldi's book.

[B]

Yeah, the book that built your world.

[E]

Yeah. Where he talks about this idea of thinking we're good and this western culture that that's not in the eastern world. Elaborate for everybody. Because that's.

[B]

The west is exceptional and I want to make sure people understand my words. It's not personal. Perfect. I mean, no, I've never said that. But it is the greatest experiment in human governance with plenty of other examples to compare it to. By the way, the east does not have the same tradition or customs or ability of rights based government that we have here. And a great example is India. I mean India is beginning to break out of this, but it's going to take them another 50 to 100 years minimum. India right now is a great example as to how Almost everyone lived 200 years ago. The caste system, who's your dad, who's your grandfather, you're born into it. And kind of religious conflict. Are you Muslim, are you Hindu? If so what sect of Hinduism? And so there is. When you don't have a system that is either built on objective morality, agreed upon principles, or a transcendent order, or the protection of those rights given by God, it creates a very untrustworthy system. So vishal in his book, he's allowed to get away with this because he's Indian. He tells the story how he went to, he went to Denmark before, it might have been the Netherlands before it, you know, has recently kind of become terrible. This was written like 12 or 15 years ago. And so he goes to this beautiful dairy farm in the Netherlands with a pastor friend of his and they go to this farm and there's just kind of a booth set up and no one is there. And it just says, you know, please serve yourself some milk, take a cookie and leave, you know, this much money. And Vishal is perplexed by this entire thing. And he turns to his pastor friend, he says, who's, who's the attendant here? Who's making sure that nothing is stolen, who's making sure the money is not taken and all of this, he says, well, no, see, this community is built on trust and built on integrity. And so this is the way our grandparents did it and their grandparents did it. And so we just all trust each other. We leave some money in here. And he says, well, I'll tell you what happens if we are an Indian. And the pastor interjects, like what? Everyone would steal the money and the milk. He said, no, we'd steal the cows.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

And the point is that in the east, it's. What's the result of that? Things get more expensive because you gotta hire somebody to protect the cows, gotta hire someone to count the money, gotta hire someone to make sure the milk's not stolen. Gotta hire someone to make sure that the barn's not. All of a sudden it becomes less accessible for middle class workers to be able to go out to the farmland, to be able to get a nice glass of milk and enjoy that kind of. And then the owner's always worrying about insurance and this, it deteriorates into a more. So the question is, why does authoritarianism creep in? Because of moral decline.

[D]

Yeah, we had on the wall, thou shalt not steal, shalt not lie, shalt not covet. It was an essential ingredient. And so in America, we never coveted what people had when we traveled around. My wife is an engaging sort and people wanted to come up and say, you know, I've been to America, I've been to. And she would say, well, what surprised you the most about America? And thinking? They said, you don't have walls around your property. You don't know where your yard stops and where your neighbors begin.

[B]

That's right.

[D]

Why? Because we didn't covet. You go all the rest of the World has walls. You go to Mexico, they have cut glass on top of the walls. Why? Because people want. I mentioned I grew up in Appalachia. There were three black Cadillacs in my town when I grew up and they all three belonged to the funeral home. And when they were sitting out there, I would go sit under a tree and I would look, someday I'm going to have one of those. It never crossed my mind to go take it. But in America we see a nice house, someday we want to have one like that. Now as you see that as America takes thou shalt not covet off the wall of the schools, then you begin to have to literally, in nice beautiful neighborhoods in Texas and elsewhere, they're now having to put up walls around property based upon the abandonment of the essential ingredient that without self discipline there cannot be self government.

[B]

That is so good. And every single indication of what made America different is now going away. For example, armed security used to be something that only had to do in the third world. In Brazil, Nicaragua, Honduras, it is increasing like you wouldn't believe in America. Clothing one's face to make you unfamiliar with one another. We do it all the time now, right, how you educate your children. The idea of private schools, you know, being the end all be all in America, I'll tell you what, all of a sudden the government run schools are so bad that it's caste system. You go to the government run schools in la, you are done. That's how Mexico works, that's how India works, that's how Laos works, that's how Thailand works where the upper middle class kids, they go to a school, the other kids go to another school. I could go through the list. And the other one that you mentioned is really important, which is gated communities. The idea of even locking your doors in 1950s America.

[D]

That's right.

[B]

Locksmith was an industry that didn't exist. They worked for certain banks, if that. That's not to say that it wasn't licentiousness or covetedness before that, but it's become a cottage industry. Jack.

[C]

No, absolutely right. And it's interesting what you just said because Larry Elder gives the breakdown of Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, these cities to where the public school teachers and administrators. He gives you the percentages of how many of those people send their kids to private schools. Yes, and it's huge numbers.

[B]

And that really is, if you want to look at a deeper analysis, outside of one side is better than the other. It really is the ruling class versus the ruled. That is the divide that happened post 1960s is that the people in charge were able to use whatever economic prosperity we had to create carve outs. Another example, the Biden regime says you must get vaccinated against your will. We've stood against that at Turning Point usa the best we can. But it's not mandatory in the Biden White House.

[C]

That's correct.

[B]

If you work in the Biden White House, you get an exemption letter. In the Marines, you get no such exemption. Rob.

[E]

Well, when Bob talked about this idea

[B]

of Alzheimer's, I thought that was a brilliant analysis.

[E]

My dad had it for 15 years. He didn't know who I was. Broke my heart. We as Americans have forgotten who we are. And the Lord would always say, remember, remember, remember. And that gift of freedom must be instructed. And that's why the longest running family meal in world history is the Seder, the Passover, because they remembered they were in bondage. And God set you free. Remember who you are, you're free. And what's happened is we no longer educate our children on that, and they no longer remember who they are. They no longer remember who God is because we don't instruct them. And now they're susceptible for lies. So where it once said, thou shall not covet, we can bring forward in our classroom a form of government that's been responsible for billion people being murdered

[B]

on the planet, plus famine, starvation.

[E]

As a building, we can bring that into a classroom and sell them on it. And they go, I've heard of communism. I've heard of, well, this isn't socialism. This is Democrat socialism. Basically, you have a turd and now you put sprinkles on it. That's Democrat socialism. The turd is socialism. And then you put sprinkles on it. And the kids are like, oh, let's eat that. And why? Because they've forgotten. We have not educated. We've separated them from who they are. And the scripture allows us to remember who we are. We're more than conquerors. We're free. I've come to set the captives free. That's the beauty of it all.

[B]

So in closing, we really want to get churches and pastors signed up. So if you listen to this conversation and you say, hey, Charlie, I'm sold. What is turning Point faith? We have field reps across the country to help churches and pastors. We're not asking for anything. We want to have more Jack Hips. We want to have more Rob McCoys. We want to have more Pastor Jurgens. We want to have more Greg Denims. We want to have more James Cadizas. We want to have more Pastor Cody's where people are speaking out and proclaiming the truth. We want to help make that possible. So you guys could do [e-mail] faith there are boatloads of resources for you. For example, we're doing webinars where we are going to offer pastors the best ways to counsel them through mandatory vaccinations, the best way to be able to write exemption letters, the best way to be able to fight local government. So we want to help instructions where we can and educate pastors the best practices that you two have been able to develop. And more than that, we want churches to commit to at least one or two a year at the very minimum. But beyond that, hopefully one a month, where you are bringing a conversation what's happening outside of the church doors in real events, and what does the Bible tell about that? Let's go around the horn. Rob, you've done this at your church for a while. Talk about. Because I want to get like, super just, you know, empirical here. Has your church been blessed objectively, empirically, since you started to stand for. You've always stand for righteousness. But when it got tough, yeah, the

[E]

minute I got political, they said, your church will decline in attendance. Your giving will drop. And there was just a brief moment where some folks said, I don't do politics. They left. But the exact opposite happened. The church exploded and we grew. And then, in addition, what's really cool is when we were faced with the lockdowns, the church responded and they were fearless. And I would add this, Charlie, when it happened in California, and Jack and I were looking around going, who else is with us? We found a handful. But what was such a blessing is when Charlie would travel the country, I started to realize, kind of like the prophet, that there's a thousand people, there's many that haven't bowed their knee to BAAL and they're out there. And so with Turning Point Faith, we need the folks.

[B]

We also want to connect them too. Right? We want to get pastors talking to pastors.

[E]

Right, Us and sign up with us. We want to help you.

[B]

And that will be that which is seen and unseen. Part of this is just putting pastors in a room that never knew each other. We're gonna do it. Whatever happens from that point forward will be magical. Jack, talk about at your church. I mean, when I go there, I mean, it's got to be one of the largest weekly gatherings in California.

[E]

It's huge.

[B]

I mean, you're rivaling some of the biggest chapters.

[E]

It's the freest place in California for

[C]

a period of time. We were the largest under roof gathering in America. That's unbelievable during the shutdown. But Charlie, I think the most important thing that needs to be said to a pastor, why they should be engaged in Turning Point faith is for this reason. I want them to be thinking that there are people within their church who are just looking for the thumbs up from their pastor, the permission to get involved in the school board to craft the sex education that's going to be going on in their, in their local school. There's congregants who just want their pastor to say if God, God may be calling you to run for mayor, they're sitting there in those congregations. Pastors need to understand that that congregate. And we're not asking the pastor to run for mayor. The congregate may want to run for city council. We have seen that Charlie. We haven't changed anything for 30 years. We know who our mayors are. We know who our police officers are. We know the point is this, that if we adopt our culture in every way, shape and form in the vicinity as it were of our zip code and do Jesus share Jesus the love of God tangibly, not just preaching but equipping them to go out and do it on Monday morning, that has transformed our communities. So much so that we become the target of anti faith organizations. That's an honor. Well, Jesus said and think about it, Jesus was the most loving and the most hated.

[B]

That's right.

[C]

If we're going to follow him, we're going to be the most loving and the most hated.

[B]

I love it. Consider it joy Bob.

[D]

America. I would say to pastors and those that are involved in politics, the United States is a standard for righteousness in the world. Every time somebody wants to do something screwball in some parliament in Africa or Australia or whatever they say, well in America they're doing it. And when they see them put the Chinese Black Lives Matter flag over the embassy in America, people have no idea that people look to America as the standard when a church is being overrun in Nigeria, they look to Americans to protect them. And as I said, if you take all the money that goes for global evangelism for the entire planet, 85 cents out of every dollar came from this 4% of the population of the world called Americans. We are the lighthouse for the gospel. Now you think Satan takes note of that? Of course they do. And so therefore we are involved in this spiritual battle. Now what would be effective is if we could take the Bible believers that have God's wisdom and ask them to please sit over here and allow Satan to come in and steal this great place. And how do we do it? Half of all those people that are self identified evangelicals, half of them are not registered to vote. Those that are registered to vote, half of them do not vote. So therefore I believe that if a person is in a position of church leadership, a pastor or anyone else is going to stand before God and say what did you do in a time of crisis? I buried my talent. And Christ told that story that wasn't anybody else. He was a little fired up about what happened to the person that buried his talent. If you stand before God and say that you were in a position of responsibility at a time of great crisis in our nation, there will be a penalty for it. The final observation is that it doesn't take much. The person who said that girls, a boy should be allowed to shower in a girl's bathroom in the Fort Worth School District got 1100 votes. There is a church just a few blocks away, has 35,000 members. One church in this hundreds of thousand district. So how did this happen to America? Because we had our eyes on ourselves.

[A]

That's so true.

[D]

And not on America. And I believe we will be held accountable. So this is essential.

[B]

Any closing thoughts? Guys? Super quick.

[C]

Bob is right.

[E]

Amen. Seriously, that's just.

[B]

I just want to encourage everyone. Tpusa.comfaith all three of these amazing men are part of our leadership team and part of what we are doing here and kind of our advisors and people we're leaning upon. And so I want to just encourage everyone watching or listening take that step of faith. Have a conversation with your pastor about this. So if you're just, if you're just going to a church, you're like, man, I feel the spirit of the Lord moving. Go to your pastor and maybe send them this link. Send them this link and have him just say, hey, what's your thoughts on this? And if they have questions you can go from there. Maybe you are on the elder board or you are a pastor because we have a lot of those, we want to help you. And then maybe the third is that you're a student and you're like man, I don't understand where I fit in this. Reach out to us. We'd love to connect you to some of the good churches across the country too. If you have felt like, man, I have tried my best to try to find a good church and all this. We will connect you. Maybe you're in Bangor, Maine. We got a church there. Maybe you're in Kansas City. We have a church there. Maybe you're in Denver. We have a church there. Maybe you're in Albuquerque. Pastor Steve Smotherman the point is, don't stay in a church where you don't feel like you're being fed. We also want to be kind of the Yellow Pages of good churches.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

So let us know which we will list the good ones. We won't list the bad ones. We'll let them figure themselves out. So we want to do that. God Bless you guys. TPUSA.com faith thank you, Bob, Jack and Rob. God bless you guys.

[A]

Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us your questions, freedom charliekirk.com and if you want to support our program, you can do [e-mail] support thank you so much for listening, everybody. God bless you guys.

[B]

Speak to you soon.

[E]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.