A (2:31)

and the idea of separation of church and state. Not even in our founding documents, written in a singular letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptist Convention. And also was a incorrect ruling by Hugo Black, a former KKK member. Can you talk about how, if we are even to take that at face value, how about we keep the state out of the church?

B (2:52)

Yeah, well, good point. And you know, what was really telling for me was if you remember the conversation with Donald Trump, that really was the breakout moment when Donald Trump met with the evangelical community up at a Marriott hotel in New York. It was fascinating to me that one of the first things that Donald Trump opened up with was repealing the Johnson Amendment so that you're free to, to be able to speak freely in your pulpits about whatever you want. And what was amazing is he paused, thinking there would be this thunderous applause, and there was none. It was like in the old show Laugh in, where, you know, the joke was one person would applaud in the audience. And I sat there stunned because he's taking in the fact that, oh, evidently that's. The pastors don't want to have that responsibility to have an opinion. They were hiding behind that.

A (3:38)

That's right.

B (3:38)

Theoretic separation issue. So he moves on to, what about they're going to take away your guns. Oh, now they're all applauding. He said. He makes a note. Okay, there's guns is important, but speaking from the pulpit is not. We should have known right then we got a weakness in our own ranks. We don't want to have opinions.

A (3:57)

That is such a good point. And I do have to say I have had the blessing of getting to know some phenomenal pastors through this entire process, but they're very, there are very few of them. Rob McCoy, Jack Hibbs, James Cadiz, Ken Graves, you know, we're networking with them as best as we can, but there's far too many Christians that are like, well, it's the Johnson Amendment, don't you understand? Which, first of all, it's a misunderstanding of the Johnson Amendment. You could still talk about civic affairs. I mean, Jack Hibbs goes as far to show his congregation how to vote. They fill out the ballot, see any mails in the sermons to the IRS saying, take away my tax exempt status. Pretty aggressive. Rob McCoy does the same thing and nothing's happened to them yet. Not to say anything that won't happen. But basically, they're telling the world we don't care. It's not a priority to Us to have some sort of charitable designation.

B (4:47)

Oh, it is crazy. So a friend of mine, Cheon, who is.

A (4:51)

He's phenomenal.

B (4:52)

No, he's a great, great church. And he's telling me, he says that in their church, that the members are under the threat of being fined in if they go to the church. Imagine this. So this, what's happening there is like the canary in the coal mine. And what's amazing to me is that more pastors in California wouldn't move in solidarity as one and begin to have services. So you literally have the problem where the churches are willing to cooperate with the state and submit to the state instead of stand up. It's just like the Reformation all over again in search of a Martin Luther.

A (5:29)

That's right. And they submit under a sloppy and I think incorrect theological reading of Romans 13, where in Romans 13 it says Submit to all people and rulers of authority. What is not mentioned though is that in a constitutional republic, we're in charge. We are the co rulers, we the citizens are. And so a proper reading is that when our natural rights are violated, then the ruler should be submitting to us. Is the point is they should be submitting to our will.

B (5:56)

Precisely. So now we're having this shocking new wave of rude awakening, maybe before a great awakening. And what's happening is we're discovering the legislators who we say, oh, we've got Republican legislators. Oh, I see how this works. The election has to be certified, the election. And then we're finding the waffling weakness that's in Republican legislators because they have no knowledge that the evangelical pro life people that are making up 35 to 40% of their constituency actually want them to stand up and represent them because we haven't let our voice be heard. They're just discovering, oh, we exist locally as well.

A (6:33)

That's exactly right. And the thing that bothers me, there's so many directions I want to take this, but let's just stay focused on kind of the Christian kind of aspect of this. Are these pastors in particular people like Andy Stanley and John Piper and the guy from New York, Tim Keller, who have been. So they all have their different flavors of handling this. John Piper went as far to say that he couldn't find a moral choice in this election. And I can make an argument John Piper influenced some of these swing states. I mean, we're talking about margins. If there's no, we know there's fraud. We know all this. But even with that, let's pretend John Piper and Andy Stanley, who is Where I am right now, I'm in Georgia. Atlanta, Georgia. Andy Stanley, the son of Charles Stanley, who says we should get rid of the Old Testament, he brought a transgender person on stage at his church. And then he said, I don't like cultural Christianity. We're keeping our church closed. Towards spring.

B (7:27)

He was an early, he went out early. I mean, he did. I watched the video. This was like an early responder who said, hey, we're just gonna suspend having church until next year. And I thought, what the heck? This is bold leadership, apostolic leadership for the church in the 21st century. We, we're just gonna shut down. And I could see what they're thinking. We're gonna avoid the whole election process and we'll open up shop when things get sorted out.

A (7:53)

Yeah. And Andy still hasn't committed to when he'll reopen his church. But imagine if Andy Stanley in Georgia, a state that as of the results are right now, if we're to accept all this nonsense and this fraud continues. Trump did not win. Why a small decline in evangelical support in northern Atlanta, in the Roswell Alpharetta area? Well, I wonder whose churches are up there. I wonder who has an influence there. People like Andy Stanley, if they would have stood for life, if they would have stood for our country, if they would have stood for religious freedom and liberty. But you bring up a great point, which is these pastors enjoy not being political. They get to have bigger budgets, bigger buildings, more baptisms. They get their unlimited tithes and offerings. And actually a lot of these pastors, they enjoy a closed church because. Cause they don't have to deal with all the people coming up to them. They get to go give their pre taped deal on Thursday morning, sleeping on the weekends. They don't have to do any of the sort of, kind of the. What they call to be a little bit more of the grunt work of running a church. Right. You have to counsel people, you have to put your arms around people. They're kind of like, I can now kind of be a YouTube star. Exactly. And that we were never called to have a YouTube channel as a church. Epidemiologically, there's no reason for the church to still be closed.

B (9:06)

As a matter of. Matter of fact, it violates one verse these guys ought to be on, which is neglect not the assembling of yourselves together. The Christian community actually increases its power by its proximity to each other in gathering. And it could be argued that as long as they could find zoom and web alternatives and people continue to give their offerings, they now can actually pare back on staff, building expenses and. And their cash flow positive with less work. However, what they've done is they've forfeited their spiritual authority to lead the body of Christ. And I think a backlash is going to come and they're all going to pay a price.

A (9:46)

I sure hope so. And it hasn't happened soon enough. What bothers me, in addition to all that is their apolitical nature as well. A lot of them have. They've said that the church should not get involved in politics, that it's dirty for the church to get involved in the civic arena. And now you start to see the consequences of that. And these pastors are going to have to be held accountable. And I mean, some

B (10:13)

historically.

A (10:13)

Go ahead, please.

B (10:14)

Yeah, so historically, you want to ask the question and say, so if you were alive and during Lincoln's second election, which is probably the only thing I could think of that is like this Trump reelection, the nation, literally its future, its cohesion will be determined by who's in the executive office, would they have said that it's wrong in the north to be involved with politics when politics involved the abolition of slavery to be congruent? They'd have to say, no, we would not be. By the way, there's an interesting thesis I read, which was from a PhD project on what was preached during the Civil War in the south, pulpits preached about the tyranny of the north and the states rights of churches not to be ruled by the federal government. In Lincoln. In the north, they preached about the abolition of slavery. In the border states, they preached stay out of politics and focus on the kingdom of God. Which tells you every one of these churches is a border state church. They don't want to offend the people. I mean, I'm telling you, I won't name any places, but I've been invited to some of these folks and they'll tell me. They always get nervous before they have me speak because they check me out a little more closely and then they find out how incendiary I am in my broadcast.

A (11:29)

Me, too.

B (11:29)

And they caution me, by the way, a lot of our people are really not. Not everyone here is strong on Donald Trump. So if you could tone it down, I'm thinking, what are you telling me right now? You're telling me that you haven't been clear and congruent enough on the values issues, that your own people are aligned with how to vote values that I can't even bring up Donald Trump, which by extension is the sanctity of marriage and the sanctity of life and the protection of your business and your right to protect. You haven't actually convinced your people that those are issues. They're telling me an awful lot when they get nervous when I come in.

A (12:07)

So you'll probably spend much of this weekend putting up all your decorations and shopping for those last minute gifts so you can ship them in time for Christmas. It's a very big job, but not as big as what's facing Prison Fellowship's angel tree team as they put the finishing touches on arrangements to make Christmas very Special for over 300,000 Angel Tree Kids who have a mom or dad in prison. People like this angel tree volunteer in South Carolina are already hard at work because they know every prisoner's child deserves to experience the love of Jesus on December 25th. Well, it will be one to remember. And it's just three weeks away from today. So before the weekend starts, I need you to please go right now to charliekirk.com and click on the angel tree banner or call the phone number 888-206-2802 and please make your most generous gift you can. So we can get each boy or girl especially selected present, a personalized letter from their mom or dad in prison and a beautiful new Bible for $220 which blesses 10 kids with all that joy. For just $22 you can bless one child again. Go to CharlieKirk.com and click on that Angel Tree banner or phone in 888-206-2802 to make this Christmas special for a prisoner's child. Right here in America. We were talking about how a lot of these churches, they have decided not to engage in the civic arena. Some people say that it is not biblical. Can you make the biblical argument for why churches should be involved in politics?

B (13:51)

Yes, because the church is to be involved with all of life. Jesus said, go into all the world and preach the gospel. Make disciples of nations, not just of people groups. The church's mandate is actually to be a culture shaping influence. And if the only thing that you can address is how to have success in life and peace with God so that you can go to heaven when you die, you're only preaching one part of the gospel. If you had the apostolic generation, the centuries of martyrs, the reformers, listening to the definition of church by modern pastors, they would say it's an alien gospel. They weren't burned alive because they weren't upsetting people. They were burned alive and they were persecuted because they dared to take the message of the gospel into spheres that challenged the ruling elites of their day. And so today you have the same compromise in the face of ruling elites where we have a lack of courage and conviction regarding our obligation to actually be salt and light in media, in law, in journalism, in academia, in government, in courts. Tell me an area where the gospel doesn't go, and I'll show you an area where the devil will go and he will dictate terms so that the gospel gets shut down.

A (15:08)

It's such a good point. And I want to build out that even further because Jesus at Caesarea Philippi said on this rock, build my. And now the word we use is church, but there's a lot more nuance to that. It was ecclesia, which when Tyndale actually translated the Bible from Koine Greek to English, the first to really go onto that journey to do so, there was actually people that said, wait a second, ecclesia. That's something a lot different than just a hierarchy of a Catholic church that might be headquartered in Rome. And there's a lot of Catholics that listen to my program and I totally respect them. And this is not an anti Catholic thing. I just have a theological complete disagreement with them in the sense that an ecclesia was actually a political gathering. It was a secular political gathering in Greece where they united around two Greek terms, Eleutheria and Isonomia, where the Greek terms for freedom and equality. It was kind of like a city council meeting. That's what an ecclesia was. Which is super interesting. And I know you. I want to just finish this. Because he didn't use the Greek term for synagogue or temple. He said ekklesia. How are we supposed to interpret that?

B (16:18)

Oh, it's powerful. I mean, first of all, think how radical Jesus was. He uses a Greek term that actually was popularized by Alexander the Great. And instead of referring to religious nomenclature, he said, I am calling out a people who are going to legislate on earth what heaven looks like. And so the word ecclesia, curiously not only describes the word for church, but its use in the Book of Acts is used in a secular context. When Paul's brought before a gathering in Ephesus and the rulers are there trying to determine what the problem is. The word used for the governing assembly in Acts that was dealing with Paul was the ecclesia. So the word literally means the legislator. And so is. So when the church refused. So let's talk about the gates. Jesus said, I will build my church and the gates of hell so about 20 years ago, I started. I came from a background in business, corporate business. Then I thought that the most responsible thing a Christian should do is be full time dedicated to the gospel. So I began doing work in churches as a consultant to help churches grow. And while I was doing that, I came across this ecclesia thing and I said, wait a second. The gates of hell that Jesus talked about are actually the gates of influence. The gates of influence are located over the courts. That's why the Supreme Court's a battle over the presidency. That's why the presidency is about over finance in corporations, over arts and entertainment. And I began to see something. There's seven domains that shape culture. At the top of each of those verticals are elites that actually occupy the seats of governing influence. Legislating, agreeing and creating culture in that domain. If the church doesn't go up against those gates of hell, then those gates of hell get fortified against the church. And that's exactly what's happening right now in America. From media to Hollywood, it's big Hollywood, big media. Then I discover Breitbart, Andrew Breitbart. I'm going, oh my gosh. There's guys that are in the secular arena that see it more clearly than Christians. Big Hollywood, big tech, big corporation, big academia. These are, these are where the gates are located. And if we don't move towards them, they will be occupied against us.

A (18:32)

One thing that Rob McCoy, my pastor, says, and I agree with him completely, we kind of coined this together. While Christians were doing church the last 30 years, the left was doing ecclesia. And that, that's the divide, right, Is that we were. I mean, a great example of this. We take a break momentarily, is Harris County. Harris county is where Houston is. Of course, if you have the combined real estate value of the 10 biggest churches in Harris county, it's $1.6 billion, $1.6 billion. Now what do they have to show for that? A lot of baptisms. I think that's great. They have a either a lesbian or a gay mayor now in Harris County. It's one of the most quickest growing Democrat counties as far as from Republican to Democrat. They are getting abortion on demand. There's moves to legalize marijuana. I walked the streets of Houston a couple months ago. I thought I was in San Francisco. So what did that $1.6 billion in buildings get you? You a decaying culture around them? Has this election cycle gotten you stressed out, worn down? If so, time to bounce back. What's the number one mineral to Fight stress and fatigue. Magnesium. I want you to try a new dietary supplement of veggie capsules of meat called Magnesium Breakthrough from my friends of the show BI Optimizers. This is the magnesium supplement I recommend because it combines all seven essential forms of magnesium into one convenient daily dosage. Most magnesium supplements fail because they are not full spectrum. When you get all seven critical forms of magnesium, so many functions in your body can get upgraded. The supplements are designed to enhance focus, sleep, reduce inflammation, improve your body's reaction to stress. So check out Magnesium Breakthrough with me. Take two pills a day with your evening meal and reverse magnesium deficiency in all of its forms. I take magnesium every night and you should too. Use promo code Kirk10 for for 10% off any order go to buyoptimizers.com Kirk that's B I O P T I M I z e r s.com Kirk promo code Kirk10 to apply the discount. Hey everybody, welcome back. Lance Wallnaut here we were talking about Harris County. Any feedback you want to give on that?

B (20:46)

Oh yeah, I mean this is so real. But it goes back to the point you're making for those folks that are, that are believers out there. But in the gospels, Mark's gospel says go into all the world, like preach the gospel and they'll be demonstrating of signs that will follow. So there's your whole group. I mean, believe me, there's hundreds of millions of charismatics and Pentecostals out there that just want to see a revival and they want to hear preaching Matthew's gospel, Jesus, same commission, go into all the world and decide and teach. And the word teach is used. And what I'm saying now is we focus so much on preaching for revival in America that the left did the teaching and discipled America. The America we were trying to preach to, they actually discipled and educated. Now you've got 50 million youth coming through the academic system. Having been discipled by false teachers would be what the Bible says. And they're a weaponized people group that are moving on into culture. And they move into all those elite positions because they just shuffle the deck. And from the university to corporate and to journalism, et cetera, we have to change the way we see our engagement. And if you can't see it in civic and political issues, you're absolutely irrelevant.

A (22:02)

Jesus told us to make disciples, not converts of all nations. Discipleship is hard. Discipleship takes investment. It takes explanation. And one of the reasons why we are seeing young Christians become so liberal is because the skinny jean wearing youth group pastor people that I am a outspoken critic of. They have gone out of their way to either be socially liberal or agnostic completely on these issues. For example, a 14, 15 or 16 year old will approach a youth group pastor at some of the biggest churches across the country and they'll say, hey, Pastor Jeff. And this pastor, by the way, is probably 27 or 28. He probably just graduated Calvin. If he did, then he's probably a communist or one of the other midwestern theological schools that teach our kids to hate the country while wrapping it in a nicely tied bow of the gospel. It's a true story, by the way. I'm not exaggerating. But then pastor Jeff will tell the kid, he'll say one of two things. We don't get into that, or yeah, BLM Incorporated is a great group because we're supposed to love all people. And so this 14, 15 and 16 year old is being taught a false doctrine by their youth pastors. Or if they don't get that answer that, oh, we don't do that around Europe because they're under orders from an elder board or from a senior pastor to be apolitical, then all of a sudden, you know what that 14, 15 or 16 year old's going to do? They're going to go find the answer somewhere else. They're not going to stop asking the question. They're not going to be like, oh, the church told me that we don't take it. We don't take a stance on abortion, on marriage, on transgender. BLM Incorporated. What these youth pastors don't realize is these kids are inundated politically now from the age of 12. It's on Snapchat, it's on TikTok, it's on Facebook, on Instagram, YouTube, public pop culture, media, Hollywood. Everything is now wrapped under the guise of climate change, environmentalism, racial justice, everything. So a 13 year old is going to ask the youth pastor, hey, I have a question. So what is, what do we think of blm? I'm confused. And if the church doesn't have a satisfactory answer to that, then you're going to lose that kid for a lifetime. They'll become atheists or secular humanists or kind of vanilla Christian.

B (24:04)

Yeah, and you touched on the real issue. That 27 year old youth pastor is hired by somebody.

A (24:10)

That's right.

B (24:11)

And the criteria for success is not are you transforming lives according to what the Bible teaches and the word of God teaches? The metric for success is how many are in your youth group and they're only reflecting the values of the elder board and the senior pastor, which is the metrics of success in the American church, is how many people are attending, how big is your budget, how large is your staff, and how many square feet of buildings do you occupy? To me, one of the singular signs that God is changing the way church is is when Covid hit, and I noticed that it hit everyone, including the churches. And the churches were categorized, curiously enough, as entertainment because the world sees them as a center for entertainment and categorized them with theaters and public sport events. That's how they see us, because that's how we define ourselves.

A (25:03)

And you can't disagree with that assessment. No, you can't.

B (25:07)

No, no. To your point, if you've got this, if you're building a crowd with music and smoke machines, you're actually doing entertainment.

A (25:15)

So the average Christian out there is confused. The one that listens to our podcast. I get thousands of emails, Lance. No, they're not confused, hopefully, by what we're saying. They're confused on a certain very specific thing because they grew up in a church that has now been revealed as cowardly or as complicit, and they're wondering what they should do. I'm of the opinion to leave the church and do it so biblically and do so lovingly, but make sure you communicate in private to the elder board and the pastor why you're leaving. But I think people have to start voting with their feet.

B (25:49)

Absolutely. And I think that a. I always said Donald Trump was a wrecking ball to the spirit of political correctness. I could see him wreck media so that now we know fake news. Fake news is a global shorthand. I mean, I travel around the world and people come up to me smiling and go, fake news. They get it. They actually know it's fake news. So he's exposed the Hollywood values, He's exposed journalism. He's exposed the deep state in government. And now I believe the wrecking ball is hitting the church. And that wrecking ball is going to now, in a beautiful way, is going to break away those pastors and leaders who the Isaiah would said are dumb dogs that have no bark, meaning the shepherd is supposed to warn you when the wolf is coming. If the shepherd doesn't warn you, they're like the sheepdog that doesn't bark when a wolf is approaching. We're going to begin to realize, and it's happening right now with these confused people and a lot of Christians, they're going to turn around and say, where has my church been on this? Where is my leadership? On this. And it's going to put pressure on the leaders now because they're going to look at what tithes, finances and membership. The moment that the people start to gather, all they got to do is go back to the first century model, gather in the house with people that are genuine seekers of Jesus, invite the presence. Because an ecclesia isn't necessarily a thousand people. An ecclesia is in many cases a small group with governing capacity.

A (27:13)

That's right.

B (27:13)

And begin to come together and watch how quickly primitive Christianity grows when it's. When it's taken out of this corporate business model formula.

A (27:25)

That's exactly right. So you prophesized, is that the right term for it, that Donald Trump would win back in 16. Did you as well, in 2020?

B (27:36)

Yeah, well, what I did was so. So I did. So I put. Literally, I walked in a book, page 74 around here. I said two things. I said, every four years, we have an opportunity to redefine, like an airplane. We get to pull it back into the gate and define who do we want in the cockpit, who do we want running this plane? We're on board. We have to elect who's going and where are we going to that every four years. And what I predicted was this election will be like Al Qaeda with box cutters. They will rush the aisle, the microphone will get taken over by fake news, news and media, and the cockpit will be loaded with radicals who are going to take you on a crash journey instead of where you thought you were gonna go. The important thing is to keep the plane at the gates till you get the box cutters and the terrorists out of the pilot seat. And that was the first thing I said. The second thing I said was the election is gonna go this way. Donald Trump will have a landslide. The landslide will be frozen in the news. The news is going to shut down ballots. I said it. Ballots will be processed and the process is you're gonna wake up and discover that he isn't president. Over the course of a couple of days, the states he won are gonna be reversed, and then we're going to end up in a crisis that will end up in courts having to make decisions regarding the illegality of what took place. And that is going to be the future of America.

A (28:58)

You called it. And that's where we are now.

B (29:03)

Yeah, nobody wants to have that prophecy, but that's it. But to me, the issue is also, it's much bigger than America for Christians. They don'. This is a global Game of Thrones going on now. The Influence of other states. You mentioned Viktor Orban in an earlier broadcast. I think it's interesting that you're identifying certain nations, certain states, where the leaders are actually in alignment with Christian values, putting borders around the culture to preserve it from being invaded by progressive fundamentalism in Europe as it's also spreading in Central America. But in those cases where these guys are vilified, what I predicted was that Donald Trump would be likened to Cyrus. And this, by the way, this is like 2005. This is before he was elected. I said, he'll be called Cyrus. Netanyahu comes to the White House and says, you know, 2500 years ago, you know, we had Cyrus, and you are like Cyrus because he moved the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. And then Netanyahu said, again, you are Cyrus when he got the Golan Heights deal with Trump. The point is, Cyrus, rulers are secular rulers that God will raise up for praying Christians. If the church will learn to work with them, they can work to actually protect their nation so that it doesn't become assimilated by globalists. And oddly enough, Jesus final teaching, and nobody talks about it, when the Son of Man returns, he'll gather the nations before him and separate them as a shepherd separates sheep from goats. To me, what we're looking at is goat cities, goat states determine goat nations. And a goat nation is a nation that fundamentally is antagonistic to the Jewish people and Christians because Jesus said, a sheep nation or a goat nation is defined by how you treat my brethren. And that would be the disciples of Jesus and the Jewish people. So this is a much bigger game we're in than just revival and souls. It's actually nation states.

A (31:02)

And so you're of the theological interpretation, that means that Jesus, in his return, will actually categorize, just split, judge nation by nation, not just people by people.

B (31:15)

Absolutely. Because in the Bible, nations are always judged in history, and souls are judged at the end of their life. So all judgment with nations occurs. That's why the Apostle Paul said, you know, in one of his, I guess was in Athens. And he spoke to them, and he said, God has determined the times and boundaries of nations, that happily, they may seek after him, that they find him. In other words, all of history is God defining nations and judging nations in their time. And if they seek him, there is an extension of grace and peace. There is an expansion of boundaries, of prosperity. And if they do not seek him, then they become part of what we look back at as history. And we can see the rise and fall of nations on this basis.

A (32:04)

What should the Christians posture at this time be? What do you think the call to action is for Christians that feel like they're losing the country and with this election that's been put into chaos?

B (32:14)

Well, the answer is this. I am on too many of these annoying prayer calls because Christians first nervous reflex is to conduct an intercessory gathering. And so the other night I was on a prayer call. I said, look, I was called on to pray. I said everyone else can pray. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to contact your legislator and I want you to tell them they don't have a political future if they don't stand up for inspecting the integrity of the voting process and respect your vote. Let them know that they're not going to be getting your support as a legislator and especially, especially if you're in those states. Call your letters, tell them where you live and put the heat on them. We have to get practical. Same thing is happening right now in Phoenix and in Georgia. We have to attend the meetings that surround the expose of fraud. We have to go. And because Wilberforce put it this way, as a great Christian, if you want to overturn evil like slavery, the battle is a battle of public persuasion. We have to be able to move the public mind in the direction of the truth. And in this case we have to have Prayer without works is dead. Faith without works is dead. Nervous. Praying without corresponding civic action is impotent.

A (33:29)

You're speaking my language. It's terrific. Well, it's been quite a year, hasn't it? Bit of a nightmare for most people. And the holidays are a great time to reflect, especially on those who helped us get through it. Now Noble Gold has put together this incredible collection of American Eagle 22 karat gold coins so you can say a huge thank you to the people you love. Nothing says you're extraordinary. Quite like a four coin gold American Eagle limited edition proof set. All these impressive and important coins are bullion grade proofs authenticated by the US Mint. They're changing this American Eagle design next year so they're not making any more of these coins. There are just around 20 sets around, so it's first come first served. Buy two sets and you'll be gifted a free 5 ounce silver Apollo 11 coin. The Apollo 11 is valued over $300 and in case you missed it, you'll receive that coin for free if you purchase this holiday offer. So learn more. Call Noble Gold at 877-64-65347 and tell them Charlie Kirk sent you. Ask for Noble Gold Holiday. Thank you offer by calling 877-646-5347 or visit noblegold investments.com I love when you said that action is necessary. A lot of Christians are actually apathetic. I attribute this to a couple different things, the first of which I think that some people hide because they have an excuse in their eschatology. They think that the world is ending next Tuesday and they say, the house is on fire, let's get the kids out. And I say, well, why don't you put out the fire? But instead they use it as their excuse. And look, every generation of the last couple hundred years thought that Christ was returning in their lifetime. And some people use that as an excuse. The other people say that it's not biblical. We've been through that. And the final thing is some people are legitimately scared is they say, I don't want to lose my friends. I don't want to compromise it. So can you walk through that as people give reasons for their political inaction?

B (35:29)

Yeah, absolutely. And fundamentally, you put your finger exactly on what it is we created in the United States in the era of our peace and prosperity. We moved from the gospel of the kingdom, which is what Jesus referred to some 70 times in the Gospels, to the Gospel of salvation. We kind of shifted it around so that the goal of life was to become a Christian so you could go to heaven when you die. And then between now and then, it's how to live a happy life using Bible principles with that false focus. And then what was worse was we had eschatology that would talk about the Antichrist, the tribulation, but don't worry about it because you're going to be out of here. So then we have a rapture theology that basically exonerates any Christian from suffering in our generation because by the time it gets bad, you won't be here. So you double down on your fanatical withdrawal from culture and to be as hyper spiritual as you can be so you get to heaven when you die or don't miss that rapture. Both of those are erroneous focuses for the church. They're not even biblical. And I believe I could believe in a rapture, but I believe that the rapture is for an overcoming church, not a church that is hiding out for fear of having to go through something. So the proper courageous definition of Christianity is that we go into all the world as salt and light in the same sphere that we're assigned to, and we're bringing the gospel of the kingdom. And that means that it's not just salvation. It's what would heaven look like if God was actually to materialize what it looks like on earth. And it's practical, it's not as mysterious as we think. In Wilberforce's case, overturning the power of slavery in England meant that he had to mobilize public opinion by working with the Christians that were in arts and the Christians that were in legislation and the Christians that were in the pulpit to create a conscience in the culture. What we have in America is the decay of conscience because gospel truth isn't preached and you won't have people convicted of sin if sin doesn't exist. So if you continue to compromise on gender, on marriage, on life, on principles, you actually have no power to even speak to the heart and conscience of a man to let him know that he's not right. So the church has to recover the primitive reality that there is a biblical worldview. And that that biblical worldview doesn't mean that you win by being popular or likable. Many times you win because you pierce the conscience.

A (37:59)

And part of the hyper focus on eschatology came after the creation of the state of Israel, really. That's when a lot of the eschatological teachings increased. My pastor is a Calvary pastor, so he's pre trib, pre millennial, pan Trib. I think it's all going to pan out. And my focus again, it's one of my favorite stories to tell. I'm not going to say these pastors names, but they were arguing lovingly but very intensely over post trib and pre trib and eschatology and Christ's return. And I thought to myself, if only there was this much spirited debate over how we Christians could win school board races. I mean, they're just going after each other. And it's just kind of a coffee shop debate in some ways. Right. Because you kind of just list the scriptures that show both ways and there's arguments for both. And then you have to wait, which one has more? Again, I'm not saying I'm not a theologian. That's not what I do. Right. I just think that the heavy emphasis on it though has created a paralyzed church.

B (39:06)

And you can only do that. Hal Lindsey's late great Planet Earth really kicked it off. You can only do that if you're in a culture that is so supremely insulated in peace and prosperity that you can focus on your end time theories. Now that's changing because we kind of feel like a Little bit more like Bonhoeffer watching Chancellor Hitler just got into office. Those that are actually awakened realize that the world around them is becoming more dangerous, more menacing. So that your happy escapism theology may have to shift into how do we build a firewall to preserve ourselves from the coming storm that is there? And I believe most Christians are there and the churches aren't, because, like I said, they built their audience off of a different message. And the way that you build is the way you keep. And so now you're going to see a groundswell of, I believe an awakening is in our loins. I would predict that the populist movement is going to produce a backlash from now, and it'll be manifest in 2022. And that the 35% or 40% of those voters that voted for Trump, that are Christians, pro life Catholics and evangelical Christians, they have an opportunity now to be a populist movement, rallies included, that are going to bring a fresh contrast between real biblical worldview and the collapse of culture and decay that's all around us. I'd encourage you to look at 1948, which is when we went through our period of revival after the Second World War. Look at what Billy Graham actually preached. Because what Billy Graham preached in his first 20 years was rabid, anti communist, anti, anti atheism warnings about the destruction and judgment on America if America didn't repent. What put people in Madison Square Garden wasn't what Billy Graham was preaching at the end of his life. It was what he was preaching in the crisp, cold reality of the Soviet Union having a nuclear bomb. And at any moment when I grew up, I was doing drills, going under my desk in case there was an atom bomb that went off in my neighborhood. And so there was fear and this sense of anxiety. Cuban missile crisis. A lot of you guys that are younger don't realize that was the anxiety in which the revival that Billy Graham led took place. And after we had success and security and peace, we went into this eschatological escapism and just focus on getting saved and building churches. We're going back to 1948.

A (41:37)

Yeah. And you heard my podcast on civilizational and population collapse. The numbers are stunning. It's only going to be even more dramatic in the coming years. And I'm afraid that we're going to have to suffer a lot more before that kind of revival is going to be received, because we've had it really, really good for a long time.

B (42:02)

Yeah. But I think that this message, as we see how culture becomes more aggressive against freedom of speech and freedom of worship and the right to assume. The more that the aggression gets targeted so that Christians feel that persecution. I think it's going to have the opposite effect in terms of what the culture expects. It's going to actually cause those that are serious about their faith to remobilize and they will not mobilize around the failed leadership of churches that were asleep at the switch when the problem happened. There's going to be new leaders arising, new awakening happening, young awakeners. Whitfield, Wesley, these awakeners were in their 20s, Charlie, in their 30s. They were your age. So I believe the future belongs to the bold. And the bold can seize this populist backlash and can make it a moment when there is extraordinary pushback on the compromised Republicans and the dangerous left.

A (42:59)

It's well said. How can people support your books and get behind the work that you're doing?

B (43:03)

I'll give him a free chapter. What do we have? We have lancewallnow.com Thrones. I want to give away a chapter in the book because I talk about the global game of thrones that's going on right now, from China to the World Economic Forum in Europe and the globalist corporations in the United States that want to redefine America, destroy the middle class, bring America down into its proper global role like Obama wanted. And I believe that the church needs to realize it's part of a global contest and our best dates are going to start now.

A (43:37)

I love it. Well, God bless you, my friend. I encourage everyone to check out that website and we have to have you on again soon. Thank you so much.

B (43:43)

Thank you, Charlie.

A (43:48)

Thanks so much for listening, everybody. If you want to get involved with TurningPoint USA, go to tpusa.com, email us your questions. As always, freedom charliekirk.com if you want to support our program, it's charliekirk.com support. Make sure you're subscribed to the Charlie Kirk Show. It helps us out a lot. Thanks so much, everybody. God bless.