A Memo From a Deep State Insider: The Coup Against President Trump Exposed

Summary

The Charlie Kirk Show
Episode: "A Memo From a Deep State Insider: The Coup Against President Trump Exposed"
Guest: Rich Higgins
Date: October 14, 2020

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Charlie Kirk hosts Rich Higgins—a national security expert and author of "The Memo"—for an in-depth discussion about the so-called "deep state," institutional subversion in U.S. government agencies, and the covert efforts Higgins believes were mounted to undermine the Trump presidency. The conversation covers the origins and operations of the deep state, the globalist orientation within both major parties, the Russia investigation, and the stakes of the 2020 presidential election.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Defining the “Deep State”

• What is the Deep State?

  • Higgins describes the deep state as "the unelected government," citing military, judicial, and bureaucratic actors who exert significant power without public accountability.

    "It’s the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff pushing back against the president... These are people that we, the people, didn’t elect, yet they exercise a tremendous amount of authority over us." — Rich Higgins (03:05)

• Origin and Growth

  • Bureaucratic momentum and the rise of "craven opportunists" (notably under the Obama administration) allowed personal networks to infiltrate powerful posts, furthering their own agendas and refusing to accept election results.

    "Craven opportunists like Hillary Clinton got themselves into positions where they were able to put their own networks inside of these institutions..." — Rich Higgins (04:27)

2. The Memo: Insider Revelations

• Background of “The Memo”
  • Higgins penned a memo in 2017 warning Trump of orchestrated internal opposition, comparing the tactics used against Trump to covert operations he had seen used against foreign adversaries.

    "We would do things like what we were seeing happen to President Elect Trump...We would leak his transcripts or leak the transcripts of his generals plotting against him." — Rich Higgins (05:37)

  • The memo led to his removal by then-National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster, resulting in a significant White House controversy.

3. Improvement and Institutional Response

• Change since 2017?
  • Higgins asserts significant progress has been made, particularly citing personnel changes ("John McEntee...he is absolutely 1000 percent MAGA") and Trump's better understanding of the entrenched opposition he faces.
  • Trump’s transformative role is cast as "counter-revolutionary," likened to Lincoln's fight against the expansion of slavery.

    "He thought these institutions were perhaps what we think of the citadels of the West...but today we see they are [leftist]." — Rich Higgins (08:10)

4. Globalism and Party Dynamics

• Bipartisan Globalist Tendencies
  • Both parties contain globalist elements—leftists for state and world control; right-wing establishment prioritizing profit and corporatism.
  • Higgins compares the current Republican crisis to the fate of the Whigs, predicting overhaul or irrelevance unless the party confronts leftist influences.

    "We are either going to move to address this communist socialist drift or we're going to go the way of the dodo bird..." — Rich Higgins (09:23)

5. Insider Anecdotes and Ideological Entrenchment

• Hostility Within the System
  • Higgins recounts disturbing anecdotes (e.g., a Pentagon colleague reacting violently to a Reagan statue) to illustrate ideological hostility within the government.
  • Suggests Marxist influence is not universal but strongly placed within influential nodes (IGs, general counsel, personnel offices, etc.).

    "The upper echelons...were selected by other members of this Marxist movement...because they subscribed to this leftist, Marxist dogma." — Rich Higgins (10:34)

6. Who’s Pulling the Strings?

• Naming Names
  • Higgins points to Valerie Jarrett, John Podesta, David Brock, George Soros, and the ActBlue infrastructure as key players, but emphasizes the importance of local engagement by conservatives.

    "This fight is going on in your neighborhood... at your school board, your homeowners association." — Rich Higgins (15:54)

7. What Would Happen If Biden Won?

• Stakes of 2020 Election
  • Higgins contends Biden is a "stalking horse" for Kamala Harris and an entire "California lawyer Marxist cabal."

    "Biden is out there perhaps as a getaway car for Crossfire Hurricane... Kamala, the most left-wing senator we have..." — Rich Higgins (17:04)

  • Predicts drastic internal and external policy changes, gutting of the Defense Department, and renewed hostility towards local law enforcement.

8. The Durham & Barr Investigations

• Inside the DOJ's Struggles
  • Higgins is "a believer in Barr and Durham," crediting their patience and broad investigation but cautioning that institutional resistance is intense.
  • Claims there are sealed indictments awaiting grand jury action, possibly withheld until after the election.

    "Without question there are sealed indictments without question." — Rich Higgins (24:18)

  • The investigation is described as RICO-like, involving elements across FBI, CIA, NSA, the Pentagon, and foreign services.

9. Papadopoulos and International Scope

• The International Angle
  • Higgins contends that George Papadopoulos serves as evidence of international coordination, with foreign intelligence services (Australia, Italy, Britain) involved in the investigation against Trump.

    "This was massive...spying on political opponents or potential opponents had become normalized..." — Rich Higgins (30:20)

10. Faith in the Process and Call to Action

• Judicial Skepticism, Civic Engagement
  • Kirk voices skepticism that any wrongdoers will ever be held accountable; Higgins responds that ultimate accountability lies with active, engaged voters, not institutions alone:

    "The accountability isn’t sitting inside these institutions, the accountability is in the voters...We are the sovereigns." — Rich Higgins (35:12)

  • Both agree passive frustration isn’t enough—active involvement at every civic level is essential.

11. 2020 Election Prediction

• Higgins Predicts a Trump Landslide
  • Higgins closes with a confident prediction of a Trump victory, citing a groundswell of support in his own neighborhood as indicative of national sentiment.

    "I’m predicting a Trump landslide. I think the people are wide awake…” — Rich Higgins (36:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Deep State:

  "These are people that we, the people, didn’t elect, yet they exercise a tremendous amount of authority over us." — Rich Higgins (03:05)

• On Internal Subversion:

  "Craven opportunists...put their own networks inside of these institutions and wield power within the bureaucracy through corruption, graft, political pressure, blackmail, etc." — Rich Higgins (04:27)

• On Local Engagement:

  "This fight is going on in your neighborhood...If you don’t want your kids being taught Marxism, it’s pretty important." — Rich Higgins (16:21)

• On Republican Future:

  "The Republican Party is facing a critical choice—not unlike the Whig Party did in 1854..." — Rich Higgins (09:23)

• On DOJ Resistance:

  "Barr is battling his own institution...most Americans, they think you strap in as Attorney General and just turn the ship. These are ocean-going, supertankers..." — Rich Higgins (22:19)

• On Voter Responsibility:

  "The accountability is in the voters. We are the sovereigns...If you want it fixed, get involved. We have far too many people sitting on the sidelines." — Rich Higgins (35:12, 35:57)

• On 2020 Prediction:

  "I’m predicting a Trump landslide. I think the people are wide awake...” — Rich Higgins (36:38)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:05 — Higgins defines the deep state.
• 04:27 — How bureaucratic infiltration occurred, especially under Obama and Clinton.
• 05:37 — Higgins parallels operations against Trump with black ops used against foreign adversaries.
• 10:34 — Higgins shares anecdote of anti-Reagan sentiment in the Pentagon.
• 15:40 — Names key alleged deep state actors and stresses local action.
• 17:04 — Predicts a Harris administration if Biden wins; calls Harris part of "California lawyer Marxist cabal."
• 22:19 — Explains institutional resistance facing Barr and Durham.
• 24:18 — Higgins asserts the existence of sealed indictments.
• 30:20 — International scope of investigation, governments involved.
• 35:12 — Stresses voter sovereignty and engagement.
• 36:38 — Predicts Trump's victory based on grassroots sentiment.

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Tone & Language

Throughout the episode, Kirk and Higgins maintain an urgent, unapologetic, and grassroots-populist tone. Their language is combative, invoking historical analogies and reinforcing a sense of existential struggle against entrenched, corrupt powers.

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Summary Conclusion

The episode serves as both a warning and a rallying cry from Rich Higgins—portraying the deep state as a real and persistent threat to democracy, with globalist interests and Marxist sympathies undermining institutions from within. While expressing skepticism about institutional change, Higgins and Kirk urge listeners to see themselves as the ultimate sovereigns, responsible for civic engagement and the direction of the nation.

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For those seeking a deeper dive, Higgins' book, "The Memo," expands on the topics discussed and offers more detailed analysis of internal resistance to the Trump administration.

Transcript

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thank you for listening to this podcast

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one production now available on apple podcasts

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podcast one spotify and anywhere else you

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get your podcasts hey everybody today on the charlie kirk show we have rich higgins twenty year national security insider talks about the deep state talks about george soros talks about eric holder loretta lynch susan rice and what's exactly going on right now with the russia investigation and will trump win and who is the deep state how deep is it and what can you do about it rich higgins is here on the charlie kirk show you guys are going to love this program we are able to do two podcasts a day thanks to your support at charliekirk dot com support charliekirk dot com support thank you for supporting our program and thank you for chipping in any resources you can please become a monthly supporter and you guys will be invited to a private zoom video meeting with me once a month charliekirk dot com support rich higgins is here buckle up everybody here we go charlie what you've done is incredible here maybe charlie kirk is on the college campus

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i want you to know we are

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lucky to have charlie kirk charlie kirk's

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running the white house folks i want

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to thank charlie he's an incredible guy his spirit his love of this country he's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created turning point usa we will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries destroyed lives and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country that's why we are here i'm going to be really direct with you if your cellular plan is with verizon at and t or t mobile you're just paying too much you are paying too much money for the exact same coverage that you would be getting right now with peertalk look at your cell phone bill where it shows data usage the average person who switches to peertalk is using less than four gigs of data a month but the big carriers are charging unlimited data it's like paying for an entire row on an airline but only needing one seat that's how peertalk saves the average person over four hundred dollars a year on their wireless service unlimited talk text and two gigs of data all for just dollar twenty a month and if you go over on data usage they don't charge you for it hey look just by switching to peertalk it's the easiest decision you make today grab your mobile phone dial pound two hundred and fifty and say charlie kirk when you do you'll save fifty percent off your first month dial pound two hundred and fifty and say keyword charlie kirk peertalk simply smarter wireless hey everybody welcome to this episode of the charlie kirk show joined by my friend and total american patriot rich higgins author of the memo a terrific book that everyone should pick up twenty years inside the deep state fighting for america first rich welcome to the charlie kirk

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show hey charlie thanks for having me

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so rich the kind of the phrase deep state is thrown around a lot what is it how deep is it and some people say it doesn't exist please build it out for us i

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think five years ago people would have said it doesn't exist i think people now are beginning to understand it's very real and it's the unelected government basically right it's the chairman of the joint chief of staff pushing back against the president it can be judge sullivan keeping general flynn dragging him through the mud for three or four years now these are people that the you know we the people didn't elect we didn't put into power yet they exercised a tremendous amount of authority over us

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so how did this happen how did the deep state get staffed created and just kind of be as specific as you can because a lot of people are either unwilling or unable to see the full

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picture well i think you have to go back a number of years there's some of it is just sort of normal ebb and flow of governance right i mean bureaucracy does its thing and so there's a natural inclination in these institutions that have tremendous resourcing tremendous amount of authority i mean the defense department alone spends seven hundred billion dollars a year most people can't even comprehend that type of money so there's a natural sort of belief that takes root that you can do what you need to do and you respond to the people over you i think though what's happened particularly in the past really thirty forty years but it really came to the forefront during the obama administration is that craven opportunists like hillary clinton got themselves into positions where they were able to put their own networks inside of these institutions and then wield power within the institutional bureaucracy through corruption graft political pressure blackmail et cetera and so much of what president president trump has been doing for the past couple of years has been battling this residual corruption so you

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write about this in the book the memo tell us a little bit about the book and it says read the actual memo that caused a firestorm inside the white house and around the world what is the memo well back in

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twenty sixteen i had been one of the counterterrorism advisors for the trump campaign and then so we knew early in the campaign that we weren't colluding with russia i mean that was just ridiculous clearly it was hillary clinton political op what shocked us was that after november eighth the operations seemed to intensify and i had worked in the pentagon for a number of years in the black operations world where we would do things like what we were seeing happen to president elect trump and then president trump we would do things like this to saddam hussein for example where we would leak his transcripts or leak the transcripts of his generals plotting against him and yet we see with president trump they were leaking his phone calls to the president of mexico his phone calls to the president of australia and so we began to say well what's really happening here well several of us at the national security council saw what was going on and the new movie out plot against the president elaborates on this we began looking at okay what's really going on here and in an effort to warn the president and then some of the people i'd met around the campaign some of your friends right don junior and others wrote a memo that basically laid out what i thought was the scope of what was happening now at the time i was operating with a very finite amount of knowledge and wrote it not knowing what we know now there was a crossfire hurricane there were all these operations they were spying on the president they were trying to subvert and sabotage him and general mcmaster wasn't a big fan of that and he moved to have me removed and it created a little bit of a firestorm in the summer of twenty seventeen

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so there's a lot i want to unpack there so i remember when this memo kind of came to light and i remember the backlash and i remember people talking about it has anything improved oh

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i think a lot has improved i mean i think the president putting in john mcentee in particular it's a huge upgrade i love johnny he is absolutely one thousand percent maga and i think the president you know i've only met with the president a couple of times over the years the president understands much more fully now the nature of the fight he was walking into right i mean it was difficult for a businessman who you know even though he knew maybe he was gonna have to learn a few things to manage the government you're never expecting anything like this right there was no historical precedent you know lincoln had to sneak into washington dc because he came here to stop the spread of slavery to the new states right i think president trump probably should have snuck into washington dc because he had been elected i think to stop this leftist revolutionary drift in the country and that was the unspoken point of maga right it was this counter revolutionary movement that he is now the leader of and i think he thought these institutions were perhaps what we think of the citadels of the west right you never think of fbi as someplace where leftism exists right or the cia is a leftist entity but today we see

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they are so yes why do why do republicans in congress refuse to acknowledge and recognize this i think the simplest

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way to describe it is if you look at the left they have interest in socialist programs status development the control of government right but they're globalist in their orientation it's for the betterment of the world if you look at the right their tendencies to be profit based corporate based chamber type stuff but also globalist in their orientation and the common denominator between the two tends to be they share these globalist networks and so it's been a process of education and i think the president's doing this it's just slow and the american voter is doing this it's just slow we're slowly seeing the change in the republicans and some are dragging their feet and some are outwardly opposed to the president but the republican party is facing a critical choice here not unlike the whig party did in eighteen fifty four we are either going to move to address this communist socialist drift or we're going to go the way of the dodo bird we're going to disappear and a new party for example when the republican party was born to stop the split of slavery i think there are a lot of historical similarities there can you can

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you comment on how sophisticated and how well staffed some of these agencies of government are by people that actually bitterly hate our country

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i can give you an anecdote right i mean it's just an anecdote but it's one of those things that shocked me into the reality of it in probably twenty eleven i was in the pentagon i was with one of the advisors to the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff we had stopped by a gift shop there was to pick up a bank that she wanted to give to him at the time we go into the gift shop we see all these little statues there one of the statues there is of ronald reagan she looks at the ronald reagan statue and it has a little quote under him she looks at it she looks at me and she says i wouldn't buy that statue unless it had a bullet in its head and blood coming out so there are several of them inside now how pervasive that is i don't know but what concerns me the most is that the upper echelons of these institutions they were selected by other members of this marxist movement to be promoted to be put in these positions of power because they subscribed to this leftist marxist dogma it's

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a hard thing for a lot of americans to realize and recognize that our government which is supposed to be by and for the people is actually one that has been subverted by the ruling class that the ruling class and corporations and technology in media they have all kind of converged and they want the government for their interests they think the people are an impediment they're an obstacle for their kind of dominion over the american homeland in fact they don't even want an american homeland you're right the one common denominator between the corporate class and the environmentalists and the left wing is that they actually want a weaker america almost like a borderless type of society that can allow them to have the free flow of people and goods and so they can have their sixth home and their third gulfstream jet because that's actually what matters most to them right with the ever increasing numbers of makes and cars it could be very confusing i don't understand cars i'm gonna be very honest with you don't understand it that's why i love mechanics but when i talk to mechanics i say my fuse went out they said it's not a fuse it's a johnson rod like what's a johnson rod and they say well you get one at rockauto dot com and what's amazing is rockauto dot com is like a buffet of options for your car you guys know you're paying too much for car parts why would you choose to spend thirty or fifty or one hundred percent more on the exact same auto parts at a chain store or a new car dealership i mean a delphi fg one four five six fuel pump again i don't know what that is it's all latin and greek to me is less expensive at rockauto dot com so i want to make sure you guys save money that's why we use partners that save people money at rockauto dot com chain stores have different price tiers for professional mechanics and do it yourselfers a rockauto dot com is about equality rockauto dot com is about good prices rockauto dot com is about transparency and rockauto dot com is a family business serving auto parts customers online for twenty years they have everything from engine control modules and brake parts to tail lamps rockauto dot com catalog is unique and remarkably easy to navigate so if you guys are do it yourselfers or you want to save money go to rockauto dot com prices are always reliably low tell them that our show sent you it's rockauto dot com that's rockauto dot com and again rockauto dot com go to the website right now rockauto dot com someone is placing these people into government someone is making these decisions who are

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these people well i mean let's just look for example at you know peter strzok infamously a member of the crossfire hurricane team the leader of the crossfire hurricane team if you will at least from the fbi standpoint after he was removed you know from his role as a day to day officer executing special agent duties where did they put him human resources right and i think you know the fact that they would use him to vet potential kid that's coming into the fbi should have been a huge red flag going up for everybody what is going on here but we've seen this and what worries me is we saw it inside the defense department as well i did a stint as a professor over at the national war college and you know i had a student there who was a navy seal captain zero six soon to be admiral he was asked to write a master's thesis and he told me i would like to write about terrorism jihadi islam all these other subjects things that he'd been dealing with for the ten twelve years we'd been at the war at that time but no he wanted to write about the environment as a risk well why i asked him he said because i know the people who will choose me to be admiral will want to see that and that tells you kind of what's going on inside these institutions there's a there's a slant where they've so infiltrated key positions when i say this it's not that they are everywhere in the department but because they naturally gravitate towards positions of influence things like the ig the general counsel's office the personnel office they're not necessarily in command or the ceo the old cia adage always was you don't need to recruit the general just recruit the janitor and that's what these guys have done they found the keynotes inside the bureaucracies and know how to utilize them who

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is doing that though who is the architect of this plan what are the names of these people well you know

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some of them valerie jarrett john podesta right and then there's the guys behind folks like actblue there's david brock the soros is of the world there's you know some of them are very well known some of them are lesser knowns but i think we you know we focus on the big money people and we focus on the media person personalities but you know what your listeners need to recognize is that this fight is going on in your neighborhood it's in your school council it's on your school board it's in your community council your homeowners association so if you sit back and throw your hands up and say oh it's too much to do no the thing that we have as conservatives we just want the government to leave us alone right well with this threat they're not going to leave you alone you have to get engaged you have to take on those civic responsibilities and yeah it's a burden if you're trying to raise a family and do all that stuff you know going to a school board meeting isn't sexy but if you don't want your kids being taught marxism it's pretty important

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and so what's really happening is what you're saying is account is a multi institutional offensive strategy by these people to take over our republic and we've seen it in the agency we see it in department of education we see it in every single way imaginable where now a president's orders are completely disobeyed can you tell us what your opinion is of what happens if biden takes office and the kind of reversal of a lot of these

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things wow i think i'll keep it brief and we can really go into this i don't think biden will ever take office biden is a stalking horse candidate for kamala harris and her she is part of the california lawyer marxist cabal with other folks like holder val jarrett's part of that same crowd and several she was chosen by the hidden democratic party power establishment to be kind of there if you will vessel in the presidency and so biden is out there perhaps as a getaway car for crossfire hurricane but also he at least appears vanilla to people who've known him for a long time and he doesn't fall into historically the aoc categorization but kamala the most left wing senator we have and we need to be mindful of this going into the voting booth or if you're early voting i mean she is a true revolutionary candidate and the people behind her are even worse

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i try to tell this to a lot of voters and some people aren't believing they're not saying it they're like oh joe biden is a good old moderate and i think we have to pivot in my opinion i told this to the president i said you are not running against joe biden just talking about kamala harris all day long you're talking about biden way too much way too much ignore him he should just attack kamala harris nonstop at every campaign rally it should be all about it would drive biden insane and it would also make the media confused and they would cover it he should go an entire rally where he just talks about kamala the entire time and it would change the paradigm because the media in some ways would find themselves having to defend kamala and the entire infrastructure of the democrat party actually agrees with kamala and they know joe is someone that can win over senior citizen voters like he's running to be the head of the villages so what do you make

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about that i think he should challenge her to a debate i think that's exactly what he needs to do and i think you know we need to really get our minds around the idea of attorney general keith ellison i mean guy is an open supporter of antifa talks openly about seditious activities going after conservatives the thing that i think is most frightening is we're battling these institutions right now recognizing that at least within the white house we have an ally right and he's trying to battle back against these institutions on our behalf what i fear is that the cabal behind kamala the cabal that's behind biden candidly these are the same folks who spied on the president who illegally wiretapped his campaign these are the folks who basically they attempted to conduct a coup they failed for one reason and the only reason they failed is because the president using instinct alone fired comey now everybody says oh you know we shouldn't have fired comey that's where the special counsel

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came from everything else bannon holds that

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view continue bannon's wrong because by firing comey he forced their side to reveal their networks to show what they to show what they were doing and to displace and it was the first time that he had actually hit back at them and it was important because i think it was how the problem kind of came to be scoped now to go back to your question i think should kamala harris come in you're looking at crazy policy positions like free healthcare for illegal immigration or for illegal immigrants you're looking at a defense department that is just gutted turned into a kind of an imperial police force perhaps even directed internally certainly there's spying apparatus directed internally again we'd see a continuation of just the i don't even know how to describe the obama administration's policies towards the police right i mean i have relatives who are police officers and they're kind of shell shocked by what's happened in this country where so many of their elected officials now seen as are hostile to them so these are just these are wave top things that we can expect to see coming down with them but your right to own a weapon and your free speech and the use of critical race theory to drive hate speech laws i mean it would just be i don't think you can even imagine it would be so bad

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yeah there's a french phrase that was said i think by louis xv and it's been used multiple times it's apres no les deluges which is after us the flood and man would that be true because you're not going to be able to control what happens after this so rich let me let me just be honest with you people are losing faith in the american system they're losing faith in the american system in more ways than one especially the judicial system why don't we have indictments from john durham

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he is working it i am one i'm a believer in bar and

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durham okay convince me i think bar

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well i think barr is battling his own institution right there are legacy bureaucrats that he has to fight his way through in there there's no question about it these are huge institutions charlie you know most americans they think you know you just strap into the secretary or the ag job and you just turn the ship these are ocean going exile you know supertankers that the best way to turn them is to turn them slowly and deliberately in a direction over time and i think that the ag has shown he' doing that he maneuvered quickly just look at the way he maneuvered quickly to shut down mueller look at the scope expansion he's allowed durham to have they're looking at the spying now they're looking at what happened in terms of sabotaging the campaign they're looking at with jensen what happened during the presidency itself all the way up to include what they did under the special counsel's office with particularly wiseman right so he's expanded the scope of this and i think the average american sees it and think oh yeah a couple guys spied why aren't there indictments well the scale of this conspiracy is massive with hundreds of actors government actors private sector actors all of it behind this wall of classified information so when we heard last week that dni ratcliffe has released one thousand new sets of documents to the durham team what the american public needs to understand is they weren't provided to the durham team the durham team has already seen them they already have the classification those documents were released to be put in front of a grand jury and the twenty three members of

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the grand jury do we know a grand jury's been paneled absolutely some people don't some people don't agree with that

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some people don't agree like tom fitton and others i know who doesn't think there's a grand jury we've had them

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on our show so i have to i have to i'm not saying either way i'm just asking the question right

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i'm telling you durham is the real

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deal would it be fair to conjecture that maybe the grand jury's already indicted but it's a sealed indictment until after

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the election without question there are sealed indictments without question well how do you

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say this without without question that okay

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tell me why because because look i just know folks from in and around the justice department who you know they they know their tells they understand how the legal process works former fbi agents current fbi agents doj employees and what we know what they say is in a case like going to be working your way up through this i think rudy calls it rico it's a rico like investigation you're working your way up through this organization and my personal opinion is they're working their way up to president obama and certainly susan rice whether or not they ever go to the political level remains a question but the only person who had the remit across all of these agencies to have understood the scope of this because it wasn't just the fbi i mean the cia was involved the nsa was involved the dod was involved components of other countries intelligence service were involved only the national security advisor could have coordinated something like

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that and in some ways maybe that's why she was floated to be biden's vp for a little while to try to keep this whole thing the getaway car the getaway car theory but i think that the pelosi cabal got kamala in there and they said don't worry we'll clean this up if biden wins why wouldn't he instruct his doj to drop charges and get away if there are sealed indictments there's no question that

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that is a risk no question about it now what i would tell the voters out there is if you want justice reelect trump allow barr and durham to finish their work if you're not happy with how fast they're going look my personal opinion was when they originally stood up these investigators they should have moved to establish a special counsel but i understood the scope of it yeah

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we're sour on special counsels because they could do whatever they want right exactly

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we were fatigued but this case is an example where you know you this is where you would want a special counsel you'd have the doj investigating itself right and so even if barr and durham are doing everything by the book and legitimately the outside perception is oh they're not going fast enough they're not resourced enough yeah but here here's what

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i understand is mueller's scope very well could have aligned with this though mueller had a very broad scope and mueller didn't look into any of this stuff so we already had a special counsel that was supposed to look in and you would know that the charging documents better than i would but it was russian interference in the american election was basically it right and yet he indicted manafort and stone on non non russian charges so if you see a crime you're supposed to refer the crime manafort just i mean manafort mueller just wanted scalps that's just what he wanted he wanted he wanted to get points on the board as quickly as possible but wouldn't hiring a foreign agent to do a russian dossier wouldn't that fall under mueller's scope we already had a special

[A]

counsel right and i think you know when you when you look back upon it that special counsel fatigue perhaps inhibited the way we thought about dealing with this okay and i'm not disagreeing with you i'm agreeing with you unfortunately what we saw with mueller was he was put in there and it looks like largely because he was the joe biden of special counsels right he was sort of there but not really and it was weissman running the show okay and i think when you look back at this remember the operational design from the very beginning going back to even before july twenty sixteen was to put in place a series of actors that would look like if not be actively involved in activities with the russians you know so it was not just that they had a weak predicate for an investigation they purposely fabricated that predicate i think

[B]

the key to all this and i have competing theories of how this all came together and you would know it better than i would i think the key is george papadopoulos he's the most curious case i think of all this can you inform our audience if you agree or disagree with that and if you agree just give us i mean i read his book he needed an editor it was meandering great guy but it's it takes you have to know a lot of information to understand it tell us i think papadopoulos shows the international component to this right and i

[A]

think okay i think very simply put papadopoulos was a young kind of wannabe you know looking to kind of make his name inside the foreign policy world and in the oil i think it was the oil speculator world right and i think because he was relatively young what we saw was in march even prior to march of twenty sixteen they had been bumping up against him he interfaced i think it was with the ben carson campaign and some other same as with these other people so the fbi was already actively looking into these individuals in march do you remember the media put a lot of pressure on the president to name his foreign policy advisors do you recall that and all of a sudden he had that meeting well then we know that on april fifth of twenty sixteen lynch rice comey brennan and clapper met to discuss president trump's foreign policy team now this is three months before they open crossfire hurricane right and you see them begin to re engage in that what's happening there and this is really important is mif

[B]

sued who was the professor or something right do we know what happened to

[A]

him we don't know exactly what happened to him but i'm told he's safely stored away somewhere but i don't know for sure so all caveats apply there i will say this that somehow durham was able to get a hold of miss suits phones i'm told they were able to get a lot of information off of those phones now i don't know if miss sue turned them in himself or they were captured somehow but

[B]

he was working with australian intelligence or

[A]

something right well italian intelligence and possibly british intelligence but this goes to the scope of this right i mean this was massive and so what we saw is these operations were under the obama administration spying on political opponents or potential opponents had become normalized and when you look back at the obama years there's one thing that really always struck me about the obama years was that no dissent was allowed even for the democrats right he went after jane harmon when menendez pushed back on him about cuba and the cuba opening up they went after menendez hard what were they going after them with i think it was this i think they were spying on him

[B]

you guys have all seen social dilemma netflix well maybe not netflix because they're a pedophile network but if you've seen social dilemma which again i'm not exactly sure how you square that they talk about how tech insiders explain how social media is engineered to exploit users data for profit they call it surveillance capitalism look i'm cool with normal capitalism where i'm willing to participate in the transaction like every time i go to the store buy food but when my data is being harvested so tech billionaires can get even richer that's where i draw the line and that's why i put a layer of protection around my data with expressvpn every time you use the internet big tech companies and the surveillance capitalists and the oligarchs they track your searches messages and video history but when you run through expressvpn it hides your ip address which websites can use to personally identify you that makes your activity more difficult to trace and sell the advertisers expressvpn also encrypts one hundred percent of your internet data to keep you safe from hackers and from prying eyes many vpn's slow down your internet but not expressvpn it's incredibly fast and easy to use just one tap of a button and you're protected expressvpn dot com charlie that's e x p r e s s vpn dot com charlie expressvpn dot com charlie i have an expressvpn on right now why don't you expressvpn dot com charlie so you're a bar believer you're a durham defender you believe that there is wisdom to have these sealed indictments i would have thought i want them before the election because biden was involved in it i think

[A]

we knew that wasn't going to come down the road about two or three months ago when the attorney general said he wasn't casting any information to carry the sword to the political level i don't believe that's possible it's just not possible we know that now right we know and the president i think you could literally see former vice president biden wince he literally winced when the president went after him over the january fifth meeting in particular is his attacks that biden had made on general flynn and that's a great piece of footage i think that really shows the guilty knowledge if you will right and i think where i see this is as somebody who's operated inside these institutions and inside the bureaucracies i know what barr and durham are up against so i'm a little bit more patient with them but

[B]

what are they up against they're up against twenty eight year old yale graduates that are slow walking and saying why are we doing this or what are they what are they specifically up against

[A]

they need to win the information war and the war of public opinion okay as well as make these cases but

[B]

they will lose that war if biden

[A]

wins i don't think biden's gonna win and i don't think you do either i don't think they do either and i think if we get into a if we get into a culture where we're pushing where you know it goes back to like when you're five years old right your mom says two wrongs don't make a right pushing for prosecutions under political timelines is what they did right and we want to be careful about following the precedent that they've set because eventually it turns into a tit for tat and i think that we have to have confidence that we're on the side of right

[B]

i hear you completely but my fear is that no justice will be done and i know you don't believe this if biden i mean that biden will lose i know you believe that trump will win but i think that if biden wins this stuff will just get completely dismissed and so here's my and here's just where i'm at and prove me wrong in the couple minutes we have remaining i don't think any of these people get held accountable i'm very skeptical i'm very cynical i have lost total faith in this maybe this they're gonna have these grand indictments they're sealed indictments grand jury and to the level and the sophistication of what these people are able to do from just hillary's emails the deletion of them the tarmac meeting it seems that these people are allowed to get away with it every single time is there evidence to show something to the

[A]

contrary there's not evidence on the specific cases you cited okay but i think that the accountability isn't sitting inside these institutions the accountability is in the voters okay and my personal opinion is that you don't get from where we were okay which is single sided justice system single sided bureaucratic decision making unaccountable foreign policy middle class actually being seen as the adversary to the political quote unquote ruling class if we if even the idea that there is such a thing as a ruling class in america is

[B]

so un american i know exactly it's

[A]

absurd so i think it's on us we the people to fix it we are the sovereigns so if you want it fixed get involved we have far too many people sitting on the sidelines

[B]

complaining i am right there with you trust me i could not agree more i mean i go to these rallies and people come up to me they say well when's durham gonna indict and i say i don't think you will whatever unite whatever and i say what are you doing about it like well i'm watching tv every day i'm like well the democrats are out spending us they're out knocking us they're out doing all sorts of stuff you know what are you doing so the book is called the memo we have one minute remaining rich what's your prediction for election day and why

[A]

i'm predicting a trump landslide i think the people are wide awake i'll give you my neighborhood there are probably one hundred houses in my neighborhood there are six biden signs and fifty new american flags have gone out much like much like if you had asked me six months ago i wouldn't have had this appraisal but i think the economy is beginning to recover post covid the president has rightly moved past covid and i think that the american people are experiencing a bit of awakening because we need to remember the left the communists the marxists whatever you want to call them they left us we didn't leave them all right this is our country and i think the people know that we the people know that they're going to come out in ways they haven't before we could be going into an interesting time in the transition though but we'll see i pray you're

[B]

right everybody rich higgins author of the memo lot there listen to this episode twice you'll get more wisdom rich thanks for joining everybody thanks for listening charliekirk dot com what a great conversation that was with rich higgins thank you guys so much for listening if you want to win a signed copy of the maga doctrine type in charlie kirk show to your podcast provider hit subscribe give us a five star review screenshot it and email it to us at freedom at charliekirk com if you have any questions email us freedom at charliekirk com we will answer them as always and if you want to get involved with turningpoint usa go to tpusa com tpusa com thanks so much for listening everybody god bless