An Immigration Moratorium? + Bombshell Info on the Mar-A-Lago Raid

Summary

The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: An Immigration Moratorium? + Bombshell Info on the Mar-A-Lago Raid
Date: December 17, 2025

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Overview

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show delves into two major topics: shocking revelations about the FBI’s Mar-A-Lago raid and an in-depth debate on whether America needs a total immigration moratorium. With regular co-hosts and guest Steve Dace joining, the discussion balances news updates with philosophical conservatism, movement strategy, and hardline policy advocacy, all in the signature direct, combative, and unapologetically conservative style characteristic of the show.

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Episode Structure & Important Timestamps

• [00:03] Opening statements & show context, activism call-outs
• [04:21] The Brown University incident & Mar-A-Lago raid revelations
• [07:36] Venezuela, Trump admin blockades, and foreign policy
• [12:44] President Trump's stance on Venezuela (Truth Social readout)
• [17:53] Steve Dace joins: unity in the conservative movement
• [26:09] "Save the West" & the immigration moratorium debate
• [34:17] Political feasibility: can a moratorium pass Congress?
• [37:31] Talent-based immigration and H1B visas
• [38:06] Closing reflections on campus violence and higher education

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bombshell Documents on the Mar-A-Lago Raid ([04:21]–[09:07])

• Blake and co-hosts unpack newly released internal FBI and DOJ documents, revealing that FBI officials lacked confidence in the probable cause for the Mar-A-Lago raid sought by the Biden DOJ:
  • "Very little has been developed related to who might be culpable for mishandling documents... there is some concern that this information is single source, has not been corroborated and may be dated. Lot of doubt that it reaches a probable cause standard, which is wild." (Blake, [06:09])
  • Co-hosts express outrage at the unprecedented nature of the raid: “They cross a Rubicon in American political life that, you know, we’ve thus far managed to not emulate the third world on.” (Unidentified Co-host, [06:41])
  • Grassley’s Twitter reaction is highlighted, framing the raid as a miscarriage of justice driven by political animus.

2. Venezuela, Blockades, and Trump's Foreign Policy ([09:07]–[15:32])

• Updates on the escalating U.S. blockade of Venezuela:
  • Trump claims to have created “the largest armada in the history of South America” to blockade Venezuela, with the country labeled a terrorist state ([09:07]).
  • Drug interdiction and kinetic military actions against narco traffickers are discussed, including the nuanced distinction between Cuban Missile Crisis "quarantine" and active blockades.
• Memorable quote:
  • "Historically, a blockade is conventionally considered an act of war." (Blake, [09:47])
• The conversation explores strategic intentions:
  • The blockade is presented as economic chokehold to force regime change, not direct military invasion:
    • “I think he’s going to basically choke the finances of the Maduro regime so that he is incentivized to flee and get out of there so that somebody else can.” (Unidentified Co-host, [14:39])
  • Skepticism on links between the regime and Venezuelan gangs arises, with a brief reality check on how such claims are substantiated ([15:32]–[15:54]).

3. Conservative Movement Strategy: Unity vs. Sifting ([17:53]–[26:09])

• Steve Dace reflects on the aftermath of Charlie Kirk’s death, calling for movement unity and honest, constructive intramural debate:
  • “If we don’t keep this coalition together, we’re doomed... you can’t appoint yourself a leader... it’s bestowed on you organically by your peers.” (Steve Dace, [20:30])
  • Dissension and “faction” struggles are discussed—whether over Israel, relations with the Islamic world, or strategy—with a plea for substantive, not personal, debate:
    • "We need to come now and reason together, as the Bible says. That’s then the prophet Isaiah." (Steve Dace, [23:38])
• The group agrees:
  • Real debate is healthy, focusing on practical politics and what will “save the West,” not on online feuding or culture war purity spirals.

4. A Case for an Immigration Moratorium ([26:09]–[37:31])

• Dace: Full-throated call for a total halt to immigration to preserve American culture and security:
  • “I think we’re doomed without an all out immigration moratorium. At least five years. I’d say a decade... Since 9/11, we’ve taken in over 3 million people from Islamic-dominated countries. That is absolute cultural suicide, and I think we’ve got to stop it.” (Steve Dace, [27:17])
• Co-hosts support and expand:
  • Emphasize the high birth rates among immigrants, the danger of “sleepwalking into cultural suicide,” and praise Trump’s expansion of travel bans.
  • "If there’s one thing that is uniting right wing political online culture... it’s immigration." (Unidentified Co-host, [30:24])
• Moratorium plot logistics and challenges:
  • Skepticism about congressional resolve to enact such a moratorium, even if the filibuster were nuked. All agree the establishment deliberately avoids holding votes on such hot-button topics ([31:39]–[35:02]).
    • “I don’t think there’s any chance it would pass, but I think our people need to see this… The clarifier ignited [movements], so I think we need to try these things even if they fail to spur on our people.” (Steve Dace, [34:17])
  • Discussion of alternative approaches, e.g., “net zero” immigration or “one in, one out” systems; the contrast with China's targeted talent immigration model.

5. Higher Education, Violence, and Reflections ([38:06]–[39:17])

• Final thoughts link the immigration debate to campus violence and the radicalization of universities:
  • Tragedy at Brown University, where a conservative student may have been targeted, is cited as evidence of campus extremism empowered by federal funds and cultural decay.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the Mar-A-Lago raid:
  • “Received shocking new docs today from DOJ and FBI showing FBI did not believe it had probable cause to raid President Trump’s Mar-A-Lago home, but Biden DOJ pushed for it anyway. Based on the records, Mar-A-Lago Raid was a miscarriage of justice.” (Unidentified Co-host, quoting Sen. Chuck Grassley, [07:36])
• On the Venezuela blockade:
  • “It will only get bigger and ... the shock to them will be like nothing they have ever seen before.” (President Trump, Truth Social statement, [12:44])
• Immigration Moratorium:
  • Steve Dace: “I think we might be doomed without an all out immigration moratorium. At least five years. I’d say a decade... That is absolute cultural suicide and I think we’ve got to stop it.” ([27:17])
• On the nature of conservative leadership:
  • “You can’t appoint yourself a leader... it’s bestowed on you organically by your peers. And I just think there was a unique combination... that uniquely put [Charlie Kirk] into that position.” (Steve Dace, [20:30])
• On political feasibility:
  • “The way the Republican Party establishment works is an incumbency protection racket. Right. So they don’t want a lot of these things to even come up for a vote because they don’t want the base to know just truly how weak a lot of the people that they’re voting for really are.” (Steve Dace, [34:23])
• On American education:
  • “If we’re graduating from college and you cannot even do baseline H1B visa work, then I think we should seriously consider why we even have colleges and universities. What are they other than learning how to become a gay race communist?” (Steve Dace, [38:06])

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Tone

• Combative, unapologetic conservatism
• Mix of hardline policy advocacy with movement introspection
• Frequent use of humor and bombastic analogies for emphasis
• Persistent focus on future political strategy and practical policy outcomes

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Conclusion

This episode is a rich, high-energy exploration of current right-wing concerns: the weaponization of political institutions against Trump, aggressive foreign policy maneuvers against socialist regimes, and a passionate case for a dramatic shift in U.S. immigration policy. The addition of Steve Dace invigorates the conversation with deeper reflections on the conservative movement’s trajectory post-Kirk, emphasizing unity, the need for substantive internal debate, and the ongoing battle to "save the West." All through, the episode maintains The Charlie Kirk Show’s signature mix of urgency, irreverence, and ideological conviction.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Turning Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord.

[Blake]

Use me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. The Charlie Kirk show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the. The leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends, and viewers.

[Unidentified Co-host]

All right. Welcome to the Charlie Kirk show. It is AmFest week and Am Fest 24 hours, basically. Yeah, we start tomorrow. Tomorrow evening. Probably going to do the show here from the studio tomorrow. I think I said that wrong earlier in the. In the week. So it's doing the show here from the studio. Then we'll head on over to the convention center. Friday, we're going to be doing the show live from the convention center. You know, that's going to actually be a really bittersweet moment for me because we've done the Charlie Kirk show live from our events countless times, and the real America's Voice team is going to be. We're going to be at that set. It's going to be good, but without Charlie, it's going to be a really, I think, just a tough moment.

[Steve Dace]

And.

[Unidentified Co-host]

But we, you know, we're gonna do it, and it's gonna be great. And we're grateful to our real America's Voice team for helping with the production there and then. And the whole media row is just, like, stacked. Oh, it's, you know, stack, stack, stacked.

[Blake]

Everything stacked. It's gonna be.

[Unidentified Co-host]

All the peoples are gonna be there. And I hope the convention center. You know, I'm actually. I'm actually. Yeah, well, I'm actually in a point where, like, I feel like, you know, we've got to get through this last little push. And it's going to be. I mean, this is like the super bowl for turning Point. And then I'm. I'm really. This year, I'm really looking forward to some downtime during the holidays. I hope, I pray, I hope, you know, I want to just, like, hang out with my kids. And I'm. So, anyways, hopefully we have a really big last finale to the year and then we get to enjoy our family and have some, some rest.

[Blake]

That was the whole purpose. That's why he did AM Fest when he did. He wanted that to be the finale of the year, political year, the grassroots.

[Unidentified Co-host]

And looking forward to the next. To the next. I mean, we've got Jesse Waters, Greg Gutfeld. We've got Tucker Bannon. We've got Megyn Kelly. Who else do we got? We got a lot of people here. We've got Russell Brand. We've got Savannah Chrisley. We've got here, there's our speaker lineup. Erica Kirk.

[Blake]

Oh, can't forget her.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Of course, J.D. vance is gonna be our big finale. I mean, the Glenn Beck. How many other people could we go? Matt Walsh, Michael Knowles, all the folks. So it's gonna be, it's, it's gonna be a phenomenal, phenomenal time. And I hope you guys will either check it, right, check it out on Real America's Voice or stream it on Rumble. If you can't get tickets, and I wish I could just say, hey, you could still get tickets, which is usually the line. But this year is a little different because we maxed out the space that the convention center could give us, so we had to adjust and turn off the ticketing. But if you go to amfest.com and you want to get tickets, you can get a discounted ticket for next year. So that's kind of the workaround. The best we could do this year, amfest starting up tomorrow night. You're not going to want to miss it. There's a lot of news here. We're going to have Steve Dase, who's just a great friend, become a good friend, who's good friend with Charlie before he's become a good friend of mine. He is gonna be joining us for the second half of this hour. And he's also, he's in town for Amfest, but he's got a show, so we're doing it remote. Let's talk about saving the West. Yes. Which it needs much saving. It needs much saving.

[Blake]

I'm just checking now. They're still searching for that Brown University shooter who may have targeted that conservative student. I want to get her name right.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Ella Cook.

[Blake]

Ella Cook, yes. Yeah, they're still looking for him. They have enhanced footage. There's been rumors that it's A specific person. I don't want to name him because the police have not named him.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, it's all over the socials.

[Blake]

Yes.

[Unidentified Co-host]

And the person has a he. They. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we don't know who he is. We don't know.

[Blake]

So we shouldn't say more.

[Unidentified Co-host]

We're holding back, you know. So, anyways, that's a terrible story. There's a blockade going on in Venezuela. There's a massive story from James Chuck Grassley about the FBI Mar A Lago raid.

[Blake]

That's putting in something that, I mean, Charlie cared a lot about. And it's that Chuck Grassley, the House team, they've uncovered more documents related to that raid, which. Gosh, that was three years ago. Wasn't it over three years ago? That feels crazy to me. I remember the day that happened. But it's internal documents from the FBI as they're debating whether due to this raid on Mar a Lago, to remind everyone, they all went there to find classified materials. They allegedly found them. Whether anything in there was really that important is up for debate. And of course, the President also has the power to declassify things with his mind. So it was quite the bizarre case. And now we just have documents from the White House, from the Washington field office.

[Unidentified Co-host]

And you gotta remember this posed image, though, Blake, you remember this, where they laid them all out with the top secret cover sheets on them. But turns out they put the COVID sheets on. It wasn't like they were filed away. And we have the image if you guys want to. It was very silly, but it wasn't like those. They found those files with the top secret cover sheets on them.

[Blake]

Yeah, but. Yeah, so this is the line. It's from Assistant Special Agent in Charge. And they just write, very little has been developed related to who might be culpable for mishandling documents from the interviews. Washington field office has gathered information suggesting there may be additional boxes. But there is some concern that this information is single source, has not been corroborated and may be dated. And they basically say there's a lot of doubt that it reaches a probable cause standard, which is wild.

[Unidentified Co-host]

So there was doubt. Let's sum this up. They're considering raiding a president's home, a former president's home of the United States. Pretty sure that hasn't been done before. Yeah, they cross a Rubicon in American political life that, you know, we've thus far managed to not emulate the third World on. They do it. Even though there is a massive discussion and debate about probable cause. Do they have the probable cause to do so?

[Blake]

Absent a witness coming forward with recent information about classified on site, at what point is it fair to table this? It is time consuming for the team as and not productive if there are no new facts supporting probable cause. And then it says, this feels like a sentence weighted with a lot of meaning. DOJ has opined that they do have probable cause, requesting a wide scope, including residence, office and storage space.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, I mean, this is, again, Chuck Grassley. He's such a funny tweeter. By the way, the words he.

[Blake]

That's one way of describing it.

[Unidentified Co-host]

It's a funny. He's a funny tweeter. Received shocking new docs today from DOJ and FBI showing FBI did not believe it had probable cause to raid President Trump's Mar A Lago home, but Biden DOJ pushed for it anyway. Based on the records. Mar A Lago raid was a miscarriage of justice. Read for yourself. And we have the image of the document that he was delivered. But I mean, this is shocking. Stuff like this shows the level of animus that that existed within the Biden DOJ for President Trump. The question that I have, where my mind goes, is how coordinated was this? How far does the conspiracy reach? Who is involved in it? Who is advising this?

[Blake]

Yeah, well, we say conspiracy, but we have our own point of view, is that the President can order DOJ to investigate something.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, but if his own FBI is saying, you want, we don't have probable cause, that's a bombshell for sure.

[Blake]

For sure.

[Unidentified Co-host]

That's a bombshell.

[Blake]

You guys should all follow Chuck Grassley, by the way, because he's at 999,000x follows.

[Unidentified Co-host]

He needs 900 to get him over the top.

[Blake]

Get 900 to get over the top. Yeah, we probably like that.

[Unidentified Co-host]

815. I just looked.

[Blake]

He has 1,000 followers for every year he's been in the Senate.

[Unidentified Co-host]

I'm gonna follow Chuck Grassley right now. I just did it. We also have this Venezuelan blockade. I want to at least prime the pump here. Yeah, yeah.

[Blake]

We have a new statement from President Trump on Venezuela. This has been for weeks. It's. I think we've been at 10 different points where I thought, are we going to invade Venezuela tomorrow? But it keeps ratcheting up. And what the president announced yesterday is he said, he says the largest armada in history, in the history of South America is surrounding Venezuela now. He says he's designated the Venezuelan government a terrorist organization. And he says they're doing a total blockade on oil tankers going in or out of Venezuela. That is noteworthy because historically a blockade is conventionally considered an act of war.

[Unidentified Co-host]

So it's definitely not as. It's not kinetic like dropping.

[Blake]

It's not. It's not. This will get. It gets brought up a lot because we of course blockaded Cuba during the Cuban Missile crisis and that was a step. They had to call it a quarantine instead of a blockade so they could say that it wasn't going to do that.

[Unidentified Co-host]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[Unidentified Co-host]

Be prepared, be confident, be safe. Go to Byrna B y r n a.com that's byrna.com and see why tens of thousands of Americans are choosing Burna for peace of mind. So here we go. So Venezuela. I wanna play this clip of Senator Fetterman because this, the drug boats thing is. It's like. I can't explain it but the Democrats think this is like a political winner. And I love that they're picking this because massively popular to take out narco terrorists that are trying to deliver poison onto our shores. It is happening. And finally there's a Democrat, Senator Fetterman who says listen, the briefing we got yesterday from Rubio and hegseth was amazing. 235 this idea, some things out in the media. It's kind of putting out this, that, that the military is just picking off, you know, any boat that comes across. That's just not true. I mean there's extensive intelligence and they know exactly who's on that boat and they know what's actually on that boat right now. And it's quite frequently they. They decline to take it and to move on those things when they move on those kinetic kinds of strikes, you know, they have absolute confidence that who's on it and what's on it. And that's exactly what it's about. They're not just going around randomly just shooting, shooting boats in those things. That's just not the fact.

[Blake]

You really find yourself wondering how many boats there must. There are, because otherwise it seems like they would stop because no one wants to just commit suicide.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah. In that same interview, he did say that the majority of the actions that are being taken are just boat interdictions where they actually grab them onshore. I'm sure they process them, seize the drugs, all that sort of thing. So to your point, though, we didn't read the Truth Social yet, did we?

[Blake]

We didn't read the whole thing.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, but it's like somewhat long. Well, it's interesting because he says, so this is President Trump's Truth Social 221, throw it up. But he says Venezuela is completely surrounded by the largest armada ever assembled in the history of South America. It will only get bigger and. And the shock to them will be like nothing they have ever seen before. So he's basically. You're right, he's kind of employing almost like a medieval surround the castle block, the resources going in, out.

[Blake]

But in this such time as they return to the United States of America all the oil, land and other assets that they previously stole from us. I don't think he means literal territory. I think it's land that US companies own.

[Unidentified Co-host]

It was probably like ExxonMobil.

[Blake]

He nationalized a lot of things with some socialism and all that.

[Unidentified Co-host]

So they owned a lot of oil land that they were able to extract the oil. And that's typically how these things work. And it was nationalized. It was stolen from American companies. And he alleges, which I think is provably true, the Maduro regime is using oil from these stolen oil fields to finance themselves. Drug, terrorism, human trafficking, murder and kidnapping for the theft of our assets, and many other reasons, including terrorism, drug smuggling, human trafficking. Yeah, it says, therefore I am ordering a total and complete blockade of all sanctioned oil tankers. And.

[Blake]

Okay, so the question is, will this be. I think bombing the drug boats has been a win so far, and it'll remain that way as long as they don't blow up the wrong boat, then it's very bad. But does it remain a win? If we end up. I mean, how high can this go? Like, I think. I think President Trump seems to believe he could probably topple Venezuela quite easily. And I think it would be easier than Afghanistan or Iraq would be because I don't think you'd have. It's not this ideological thing where you have this.

[Unidentified Co-host]

It's also a Navy, you know, Sea Fleet. Right. That is blocking. And they, you know, Venezuela doesn't have a way to counter us in that way. There's nobody in the United States.

[Blake]

Well, yeah, but same thing with those other countries. We still ended up occupying them and having thousands of people.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, I don't think that's where we're going. I think he's gonna basically choke the finances of the Maduro regime so that he is incentivized to flee and get out of there so that somebody else can. Yeah, listen, I have to say, as against foreign invasions and foreign abstractions and military operations. We talked about this with Michael Knowles. There is going to be more patience with the base to do this. Right. And I'll explain why. First of all, there's been these Venezuelan gangs. Aurora, Colorado story lives in the memory of American citizens. This is one of the reasons President Trump won election. These Venezuelan gangs are being funded, propped up or at least, you know, tacitly blessed by the Maduro regime to cause chaos in our borders. Okay. And by the mere fact that these drug boats continue setting off for the United States.

[Steve Dace]

Do we know that?

[Blake]

Do we know that? They. I know they say it a lot.

[Unidentified Co-host]

What, which part?

[Blake]

Like that they're signing off on gangs doing stuff. I think Venezuela is just a crappy country and so a lot of Venezuelan.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Gangsters come here probably. I think that that's essentially how Maduro keeps control is what I've read is that he has sort of these handshake, wink, wink agreements with these street gangs and they do his bidding and they go where he wants.

[Blake]

I feel like the best outcome we could have is they flee or get toppled. We get a, you know, the El Salvador guy.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Sure.

[Blake]

Bukele, Bukele, Bukele. And we get a Bukele style government. We send all the Venezuelan illegals back to Venezuela and they immediately send them to some Venezuelan hyper prison that they build for all of them. And we can pay them, pay them $5 billion a year to run his.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Number one export is going to, is going to be like prison systems. Like it's great.

[Blake]

Everyone's, if you look at the polls, everyone who neighbors Venezuela, they're like, they say we want that, I want that in my country.

[Unidentified Co-host]

And it'll be great if you got rid of probably in the United States. 400,000 criminals off the streets right now. We'd have like paradise. Paradise. Zero crimes Right now in war torn Ukraine, elderly Jews like Maria face a brutal winter and a constant search for food. Maria is 85 years old and lives alone. She's nearly blind and suffers from a broken hip. Maria is a Holocaust survivor. Her father and brother were murdered by the Nazis. Maria still lives in her childhood home. There's no indoor plumbing, no heat, and it's bitterly cold. Today. Like yesterday, Maria barely has enough food to survive. Her hunger is unbearable. She prays for warmth, food, and someone to help her this winter. As the snow falls and the nights grow longer, her hope fades with each passing day. She feels forgotten and needs our help. That's why I'm so grateful for the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews. For over 40 years, the fellowship and their supporters have delivered boxes stuffed with nutritious food, cooking supplies and other essentials to suffering and impoverished people like Maria. To learn more about the Great work of IFCJ, visit urgentifcj.org that's urgentifcj.org without further ado, I'm very excited about our next guest who I'm also going to be seeing this weekend. That's what we're trying to do here is get people that are going to be a part of our big weekend. That's, of course, Steve Dase, host of the Steve Dase Show. Steve, welcome back to the show, my friend.

[Steve Dace]

Good to see you guys. God bless. Merry Christmas.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, Merry Christmas. Excited to see you. Lots going on this week. It's going to be jam packed. You're going to be speaking to the crowd. Do you want to give us a little teaser of what you're thinking about talking about?

[Steve Dace]

The number one thing I hope that we get out of this weekend is I've just never experienced the kind of unity and seeds of revival like we had at Charlie's memorial and the immediate thereafter. And I am just hoping and praying in advance of this event that what this does recaptures that going into the holidays and then we come out of the new year with that kind of focus and drive and purpose and shared missiology and momentum again. And so everything, I mean, you guys are keeping me busy this week. So everything that I'm going to be a part of here at the convention center in Phoenix is about is going to be about reinforcing that message, which is kind of weird for me. I mean, for much of my career, I've kind of been the disruptor, insurgent guy. But you know, Charlie convinced me in the last year plus that if we don't convince. We don't keep this coalition together, we're doomed. And so now, as I get older, I am into my 50s now. I kind of feel like I'm grandpa now. And I'm trying to get everybody to stay on the same team for the first time in my career. So I'm gonna be harping on that a lot this week.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Well, it kind of reminds me of that Elon Musk quote, and I think it was right around the memorial where he says, we must hang together or.

[Blake]

We shall surely hang separately.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah. And there really is. You know, I've been thinking a lot about this, Steve, and this isn't where we were planning to go with it, but I think it kind of all ties in with what we were planning on talking about on the show today. You know, there is a time for bringing coalitions together. Usually that's election years. Right. Obviously, you have to seed the ground before that happens, and you have to do the work before. But there can be a time where you've got to sort. There is a sifting. There is. There can be a sifting that happens. And it's truly a difficult question when that time is, you know, how to. Who makes the call? Who has the leadership to sort of lead the pruning and the. You know, because you got to prune every garden, you got to prune every tree if it's going to grow healthy. And there is a point where that can be. What do you make of this? I mean, the most famous example is the Buckley in the Birch Society, right? In the. Was that 60s or 70s?

[Blake]

John Birch Society?

[Unidentified Co-host]

50S, 60s. 50s, 60s. All right. I mean, so that's the most famous example. But what do you make of that as a larger question?

[Steve Dace]

I'm sure you guys have seen this meme that has gone around the last few months, and I have it here on my computer. I look at it, like, daily, and I think about it a lot. And it's this meme where there's a giant dam and it's labeled Charlie Kirk, and it's holding back this huge body of water, essentially craziness. And the dam is between this crazy body of water and then how we can actually unite and win. And I think about that a lot. And I think people are just now seeing posthumously how much Charlie was respected in that role and precisely was thrust in that role because he did not seek it. I mean, that's the kind of respect. You can't appoint yourself an apostle. You can't appoint yourself a bishop. You cannot appoint yourself a Leader. And most of the people that try to do that, you know, back in the day, when I was younger, we used to say, you can't gloss yourself, right? And so the guys that typically try to do that are anything but about that life. And typically, that stuff is bestowed upon you organically by your peers. And I just think there was a. There was a unique combination, both of reverence for Charlie, respect for Charlie, and his intellectual fear of Charlie's intellect and his platform. And then, you know, the. The fact that he was a good, decent human being at the same time, that uniquely put him into that position. And I think what you're seeing now is there's various elements, these various factions within our movement now, Libertarians, you know, America Firster. No, we're really America Firsters, maybe America Onlyers. You know, maybe we need to have a reconsideration of our relationship with Israel. Maybe we can have a partnership with the Islamic world. Maybe we need to completely divorce ourselves from the Islamic world. The leaders of these various factions now are kind of coming to a head with their platforms to fill this void, and that has created a lot of the dissension and argumentation that you're seeing right now. And I think what we actually really need is a real debate. I think we need to have a real argument and in constructive ways so that people can legitimately feel as if their voices are heard. I said in the aftermath of the interview that Tucker did with Fuentes that a lot of people got worked up about. And I said this on my show. I said, listen, trying to mainstream Nick Fuentes will destroy our coalition on one end. Trying to cancel Tucker because he brings up topics you don't like, and in ways that all the time, frankly, I don't even agree with, will destroy it in the other end. All right, so there's no win here by trying to cancel either side of this various conversation. What we really need to have are substantive debates. And I would urge the leaders of these various factions that want to have their views reconsidered now with this void left by Charlie's murder. Then I would urge them, and I would, one, try to be responsible, try to understand the collateral damage when you bring something up and disagree and be willing to have and let the leaders of the other side and the other factions question you, go on one another's shows, go on one another's platforms. You know, I know there's going to be lots of breakouts and stuff here this week at America Fest. You know, this is really a time now that we need to come now and reason together, as the Bible says. And that's then the prophet Isaiah.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, I'm 1,000% with you. I was on Ross Douthat's podcast and it released last week and it was a great experience actually. And the reason I did it was because we had originally booked Charlie to be on Ross show in October and lo and behold, he invited me to come out in December. So I was honored to take the invitation and to do it. And one of the things we talked about was this very thing. And I'm a proponent of. Let's have the debate. Let's have the debate. The key is that in the online community it turns into this kind of feud culture, which is not productive. And that's exactly what Charlie tried to avoid. We've been trying to avoid it. And I think if you can stay out of the personal mudslinging and you get into the debate the actual merits of the ideas, that's the sweet spot. You should not be afraid of that. The feud culture, the mudslinging, the personal animus, that stuff can be really, really distracting. And by the way, it's really seductive as well.

[Blake]

The feud slinging and also just what they choose to focus on since you mentioned Fuentes and others. But that one of Charlie's best things is he really was almost entirely focused on very practical politics. So he was always, he was always talking about the next race, not even the big elections, but those off year elections. He would have been really hammering the Virginia and New Jersey races. And that's why we tried to do the same or even Wisconsin Supreme Court election, Tennessee vie election. He'd get whipped up for these things and he'd fixate on what could Congress be doing right now, what could the President be doing right now that will have an impact on the border, on your individual life? And when he wasn't talking about politics, he was talking about that individual life stuff. You should be going to church, you should be, you know, observe the Sabbath if you can do, do those things. And I do worry that a lot of what's happened with the weirder stuff that's come into the right, you know, arguing over, I mean, let's be frank, a lot of the stuff, the debate about Israel for a lot of them, they really actually just want to hate on Jewish people. And besides the fact that I consider that generally morally wrong, it's also a huge distraction from everything. And it occurred to me that there was this big cancel battle going on in late October of this year right before important elections. And There were a lot of people who weren't talking about that. They were talking about whether it was okay to attack world Jewry or not.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, well, and you know, Steve, and I'll throw this to you. Charlie was always had this guiding north star, I think that kept him very clear minded about what was important, what wasn't. And that was save the West. Save America. Save the West. And you postulate that there's really only two ways we do that. What are those, Steve?

[Steve Dace]

I think one comes from above, Providence, and that's mass revival. When you see that 2% of France, less than 2%, is evangelical, you see many of the old Catholic cathedrals now are mosques or strip malls or just barren buildings throughout much of Western Europe. We're beyond just rezoning laws and many practical political solutions to that level of spiritual degradation. So we need mass Great Awakening level revival. It's not a coincidence that we had Great Awakenings before we had liberty in America. We had pastors like John Winthrop and Jonathan Edwards and others. So what can we do in the practicum? Because that comes from above. And in the practicum, I think we're doomed without a flat out all out immigration moratorium.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Whoa.

[Steve Dace]

And I might even extend it.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Hold on. Yeah, say it again so they can hear you in the back, Steve.

[Steve Dace]

Yeah, I think we might be doomed without an all out immigration moratorium. At least five years. I'd say a decade. Something along the lines of my good friend Congressman Chip Roy is proposing right now with the Pause act, but I'd make it even more draconian. And I hate saying this, guys. I mean, I put the fun in fundamentalism. You know, it. I, I like thumping my Bible, man. I love it. Okay, but I'm not even sure how many Christian asylum cases we can take because a lot of them are going to come from countries that are dominated by Islam. So how do we know? How do we vet? How do we know? Because our current, whatever the vetting system was around here for the last 20 plus years sucked. All right? Since 9 11, we've taken in over 3 million people from Islamic dominated countries. That is absolute cultural suicide. And I think we've got to stop it.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah. And Steve, how many kids did they have? So, okay, we took in 3 million, but are they having 4.7 children each couple there? So is that really closer to 15 million now? And you see what happened in Bondi Beach. I mean, the west is sleepwalking into cultural suicide. And there's many of us that are clapping our hands, waving Jumping up and down saying, please wake up. Charlie was big on this. And there seems to be a faction within our own ranks that is, I don't know, cozying up to this idea that we can be friends with Islamists that move into our own country. There are 50 Muslim majority countries in the world. There's lots of options. You don't need to have a move to the West. This is Lane Schoenberger, chief investment officer and founding partner of Y Refi. It has been an honor and a privilege to partner with Turningpoint and for Charlie to endorse us. His endorsement means the world to us and we look forward to continuing our partnership with Turningpoint for years to come. Now hear Charlie in his own words tell you about Yrefi.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm going to tell you guys about yrefi.com that is yrefy.com why refi is incredible. Private student loan debt in America totals about $300 billion. Why refi is refinancing distress or defaulted private student loans. You can finally take control of your student loan situation with a plan that works for your monthly budget. Go to yrefi.com that is why refi.com do you have a co borrower. Why refi can get them released from the loan. You can skip a payment up to 12 times without penalty. It may not be available in all 50 states. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com let's face it, if you have distress or default to student loans, it can be overwhelming because of privacy. Loan debt. So many people feel stuck. Go to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com Private student loan debt relief yrefi.com.

[Unidentified Co-host]

But yeah, this is my question when the west is insistent upon importing third worlders. By the way, Trump just expanded his travel restrictions an additional 20 countries and the Palestinian Authority doubling the number of nations affected by sweeping limits announced earlier this year.

[Blake]

Absolute travel ban.

[Unidentified Co-host]

That's a very, I mean this is, you know, I'm totally okay with it. I think to your point, draconian. He's getting more serious about it. And by the way, when I talk to any of my friends that are connected to the administration, I just say that is a popular policy. Please know we got your back. If there's one thing that is uniting right wing political online culture with political culture, it's immigration. So that's a good thing.

[Steve Dace]

100%. I mean look at the prime minister of Australia, not our hemisphere, but obviously it's a country that's founding is mired in Western values and philosophies right after what happened there. His immediate call was for more common sense. Gun control. And no one can rise above their own worldview. Worldview is destiny. Or as the Bible says, as a man thinketh, so is he right. And so if your worldview. In response, you should be tempted to go so far the other way that we do have to say, hey, slow down. Let's not just go ahead and mass, you know, collectively guilt people because of what happened here. Instead, the temptation is to double down on the very policies that lead to more and more of these tragedies. And when you're dealing with something like that, that, to me, is, again, immigration moratorium. We clearly cannot think this through right now. We need a full stop right now.

[Unidentified Co-host]

And, Steve, the only way you get that is with a filibuster. But even if you did a filibuster, if you nuked the filibuster, who knows? All right, so, Steve, if you're calling for an immigration moratorium, I am totally on board. I would do it for at least a decade, but I'll take what I can get. The question then becomes, how do you achieve that political end? Right. You're seeing today that four Republicans have broken in the House for Obamacare subsidies. That is a very clear indication that we do not have control of.

[Blake]

We do not have very tough people.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, we have a bunch of Democrat lights in the House and probably in the Senate. You think Susan Collins, you think Lisa Murkowski, you think Rand Paul, you think who else? You got Mitch McConnell still in there. Even if we nuke the filibuster, you'd have to presume two things. One, that we have enough votes to do so, and secondly, that once we do so, we'd have enough political will to accomplish the truly important, critical pieces that will save America. And I don't think we have either.

[Steve Dace]

That's exactly why we need to try to do it, though, so our people can see. Remember, the Dred Scott case is considered to be one of the key components that led to the end of slavery in America. We lost that case, but people got to see the US Supreme Court look at a black man and say, that's not a person, it's property. And that clarifying that clarifier ignited the abolitionist movement in the next era to do what must be done to win. And so I think we need to try these things even if they fail to spur on our people, so that what comes after Trump then is even more zealous for the kinds of things we're talking about now that they fully know who and what it truly is that we are aligned with.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Interesting. You might have just convinced me. I've been really wavering on this. I think, Blake. Blake, you're probably a little bit on the other side of that argument. And I've. I've just been. Admittedly, I've been in the mushy middle because I could see it going like I'm gaming it out, how we could do this, and I. And I don't. But you might have convinced me.

[Blake]

Yeah, it's. It's just tough.

[Unidentified Co-host]

It's tough. We don't have the soldiers in the field right now.

[Blake]

But there's a line, like in science, that science progresses one funeral at a time. And I feel like Republican courage progresses one retirement at a time.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, we just had another retirement announced in Washington State. Okay, so we want to get immigration done. We would all go in favor of an immigration moratorium. How many votes? So let's set the filibuster. Nuking the filibuster aside, let's assume that we can do that. Let's assume we get 50 plus one. What happens next? How many US senators would vote for an immigration moratorium? Right now?

[Steve Dace]

I don't think. I don't think there's any chance it would pass, but I think our people need to see this.

[Unidentified Co-host]

How many do you think we get? 10?

[Steve Dace]

I bet you get. I bet you get. I bet you get 20 or 25. Because now their votes on the record. And you have to understand, the way the Republican Party establishment works is an incumbency protection racket. Right. So they don't want a lot of these things to even come up for a vote because they don't want the base to know just truly how weak a lot of the people that they're voting for really are. And so this kind of clarifier you're gonna get, the people that were never with us, they're gonna get more emboldened to be. So then you're gonna get some squishy people who don't want to be known that they're on the wrong side of history here that would like to keep collecting those pension points there in Washington, D.C. so I would guess we'd probably get half the Republican senators to vote for it.

[Blake]

It's even more treacherous than that, Steve, because think of what happened with Obamacare, for example, where the Republicans would endlessly hold those symbolic votes to repeal and replace Obamacare because they knew it was not going to pass. So what would you have in our Senate, how many of them would vote for the full immigration moratorium as long as they had ironclad confidence it was not actually going to pass? And then if it seemed, oh, we have 58 Republican senators, we could conceivably pass it. Suddenly everyone gets shaky, there's problems with it. You have the ghost of John McCain possess somebody and say, oh, I'm actually gonna vote with the Dems on this one.

[Unidentified Co-host]

So. Well, and here's the thing. You could do a net zero immigration moratorium, right? So the estimates are around 200 to 300,000 people. US citizens and immigrants, foreign born residents leave the United states every year, 2 to 300,000. So it's not like you're not allowing some movement of humanity. Right.

[Blake]

You can bring in a new H1B if you sponsor, if you get somebody.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Else to leave America and you have to pay $150,000.

[Blake]

I'm just picturing like a tech company, maybe Microsoft something, and they find refugees and they just say, we'll pay you $50,000 will resettle you in this colony in a cheap country like Panama or something. They're dumping people there so they can bring in tech workers.

[Steve Dace]

Trump can stand up now. He can, he can stand up like the joker, break the cue stick in half and say, we're gonna have tryouts. All right, all right. So you've got to get somebody to.

[Blake]

Leave before you can come in peaceful. It's.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, I mean, listen, but I actually think some of these ideas. So a lot of people look, trump gold card, right? The trump card or whatever, $5 million people, you know, I posted something on X and people were like, something about how a piece of paper doesn't make you an American. And they're like, yeah, we agree. What about the trump card? It's like, okay, we have to have some pragmatism in here. We have to look at, you know, for example, I'm against H1BS, but I'm pro genius visas, so why can't we have more geniuses moving in at this point?

[Blake]

I often just look at what China does because they're just a country that doesn't hate themselves, even if they're ideologically very different. And China has immigrants, they just have very few. They find a world class expert in something and they say, come here, we'll pay you a million dollars a year, $2 million a year, and you have to teach these native Chinese everything you know.

[Unidentified Co-host]

Yeah, Imagine that.

[Steve Dace]

If you look at the H, if you look at the H1B program. Guys, right now there's about as many H1B visas in America as there are college educated people in the unemployment line. And so we keep being told that Americans cannot do these jobs. So let me repeat that. There's about as many college degreed people in the unemployment line in America right now as we have H1B visas. I mean, if we're graduating from college and you cannot even do baseline H1B visa work, then I think we should seriously consider why we even have colleges and universities. And in the first place, what are they other than learning how to become a gay race communist? What are they doing there?

[Unidentified Co-host]

Well, you know, it kind of. I hate to. I mean, that's a funny line and I want to enjoy the moment, but for some reason, it made me think of poor Ella Cook at Brown University, you know, the radical environment that she was living around. And we're waiting on confirmation that she was indeed targeted. But I'm gonna be honest, like, it's hitting me. Like, you know, the story didn't hit me as hard at first. It felt sad and sympathy and I said a prayer for her and her family. But as the days go on and I sit with this, it's hitting me hard. I'm like I'm having, you know, it's hitting closer to home because I think what happened to Charlie and it just is breaking my heart. And, you know, these universities, they had a lot of federal funding. They get a lot of prop, you know, they propped up and they're, you know, you're indoctrinating your children. You're playing Russian roulette with their values. Steve Dace, we are going to see you this weekend, my friend. Thanks for joining. That was a really fun conversation. So you bet, guys. We appreciate you making the time. We'll see you next time tomorrow probably.

[Steve Dace]

You bet. God bless.

[Blake]

For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.

[Steve Dace]

Com.