Another Signal Chat...And Another Pope?

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show – "Another Signal Chat...And Another Pope?"

Host: Charlie Kirk
Guest: Michael Knowles
Release Date: April 21, 2025

---

1. Defense of Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense

Timestamp: [00:00] – [08:27]

Charlie Kirk opens the episode addressing recent aggressive media attacks on Pete Hegseth, the U.S. Secretary of Defense. He posits that these assaults are not because Hegseth is failing in his role but rather because he is succeeding.

Notable Quote:
Michael Knowles: "Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks."
Timestamp: [00:50]

Pete Hegseth commends Charlie for his efforts in building Turning Point USA, describing it as "one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created."
Timestamp: [00:53]

2. Media Attacks and the Real Motives

Charlie delves into the New York Times' recent attacks on Hegseth, particularly criticizing him for allegedly sending war plans via Signal chat—a claim Hegseth denies as "total and complete bs." Charlie argues that the media's real motive is to undermine a successful and reformative Secretary of Defense who is reversing the negative trends set by the previous administration under Joe Biden.

Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk: "They are attacking Pete Hegseth because he's succeeding."
Timestamp: [04:00]

3. Military Improvements Under Hegseth

Charlie presents a compelling case for Hegseth’s effectiveness by highlighting significant improvements in military metrics:

• Recruitment: The Army reported a 10% increase in new enlistments in fiscal year 2024, while the Marine Corps achieved 100% of its recruiting goals.
  Timestamp: [04:30]

• Morale: A Rand Corporation survey indicates a 15-point jump in troop satisfaction compared to 2021, especially among combat units.
  Timestamp: [05:00]

• Efficiency: The Department of Defense’s Inspector General noted a 12% increase in procurement efficiency and project delivery timelines.
  Timestamp: [06:00]

• Lethality and Preparedness: Combat readiness scores from CENTCOM and INDOPACOM showed a 20% increase in unit preparedness over fiscal year 2022.
  Timestamp: [06:30]

Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk: "By all objective measurements, Pete Hegseth has been a roaring success, probably the most effective Secretary of Defense since the new millennium."
Timestamp: [07:00]

4. Neocon Influence and Internal Pentagon Dynamics

Charlie suggests that the media attacks are symptomatic of a deeper struggle within the Pentagon, where neoconservative elements opposed to Hegseth’s strategies are losing influence. He implies that Hegseth’s removal of progressive policies, such as eliminating LGBTQ initiatives and enforcing strict physical fitness and combat readiness standards, has made him unpopular among entrenched bureaucratic factions.

Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk: "The neocons want to strike Iran more than anything else. Pete Hegseth stands atop the Pentagon to say not today neocon."
Timestamp: [07:30]

5. Personal Attacks and Counterarguments

The episode features a segment where Steve Bannon criticizes military policies under previous administrations, highlighting the absurdity of certain LGBTQ initiatives within the military. Charlie uses this to reinforce his argument against the perceived "wokeism" infiltrating the Pentagon.

Notable Quote:
Steve Bannon: "The coolest thing I did on board was to be able to participate in a LGBTQ spoken word night... That's probably the culmination of the whole deployment."
Timestamp: [08:11]

6. Death of Pope Francis and Implications

Transitioning to a significant global event, Charlie announces the death of Pope Francis, marking a pivotal moment for the Catholic Church. He reflects on Pope Francis’s 12-year pontificate, noting his role in addressing social justice issues and his impact on Catholics in America.

Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk: "When you have a military that was bogged down by bureaucracy, wokeism and low morale, and all of a sudden you see that turned around, you have to wonder, but what is down?"
Timestamp: [07:30]

7. Selection Process for the New Pope Explained by Michael Knowles

Inviting Michael Knowles, a devout Catholic and host of "The Michael Knowles Show," Charlie delves into the intricacies of selecting a new pope. Michael elucidates the traditional process, including the role of the College of Cardinals, the voting procedures in the Sistine Chapel, and the symbolic white and black smoke signals that indicate the selection of a new pope.

Notable Quote:
Michael Knowles: "You might think you know what the next pontificate's going to look like. Really, at this point, we have no idea."
Timestamp: [21:24]

8. The Role of Tradition and Liturgy in Catholicism’s Resurgence Among Youth

Michael emphasizes the importance of maintaining traditional liturgy, such as the traditional Latin Mass, to attract and retain young Catholics. He notes a significant resurgence in Catholicism, particularly among younger demographics, driven by the Church’s adherence to established rituals and resistance to modern liberal ideologies.

Notable Quote:
Michael Knowles: "There is so much beauty in this Mass that endured substantially unchanged for about 1400 years."
Timestamp: [26:11]

Charlie shares his observations of young evangelicals gravitating towards Catholicism, citing a preference for the Church’s structured and reverent worship environments over what he perceives as the shallowness of some evangelical services.

Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk: "I couldn’t find a seat at 10pm at night on a Saturday night. It was like a selfie line, just trying to get in there."
Timestamp: [28:01]

9. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Charlie concludes the episode by reinforcing the significance of both Pete Hegseth’s role in revitalizing the U.S. military and the Catholic Church’s evolving dynamics following Pope Francis’s passing. He encourages listeners to engage with both national defense and religious traditions as pillars of American strength and cultural identity.

Notable Quote:
Charlie Kirk: "People are seeking tradition. And what I hear from young people in particular is they say everything is changing. I don’t need a worship song with an electric guitar and smoke. I want to feel holy."
Timestamp: [33:00]

---

Key Takeaways:

• Pete Hegseth’s Success: Under Hegseth’s leadership, the U.S. military has seen improvements in recruitment, morale, efficiency, and combat readiness, challenging media narratives that aim to undermine his effectiveness.

• Media and Neocon Opposition: Charlie argues that the media attacks are driven by neoconservative factions threatened by Hegseth’s reforms, particularly his stance against unnecessary military interventions.

• Pope Francis’s Death: The passing of Pope Francis marks a significant transition for the Catholic Church, with discussions focusing on the selection of a new pope who upholds traditional values and maintains the Church’s global influence.

• Resurgence of Catholicism: There is a noticeable trend of younger individuals, including evangelicals disillusioned with modern liberalism, converting to Catholicism, attracted by the Church’s adherence to tradition and structured liturgy.

• Importance of Tradition: Both in military leadership and religious practice, maintaining tradition and resisting superficial modern changes are portrayed as key to enduring success and stability.

---

This episode of "The Charlie Kirk Show" offers a robust defense of Pete Hegseth’s leadership in the Defense Department, critiques media narratives, explores significant developments within the Catholic Church, and highlights trends in religious conversions among youth. Through detailed discussions and insightful commentary, Charlie Kirk provides listeners with clarity on pivotal cultural and political issues shaping America today.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody. Charlie Kirk here live from the Bitcoin.com studio. Why are they going after Pete Hegseth so aggressively? It's not because he's failing. It's actually because he's succeeding. We also have Michael Knowles to walk us through. What does it mean to select a new pope for those of us that are not Catholic? It was a very informative discussion. And finally, I close this episode out with something about the Catholic Church that we evangelicals need to take seriously. We Protestants need to take seriously. Listen carefully, text it to your friends because I'll be honest, I just don't like going to a Sam's Club to worship. I think there is something to say about making our churches as beautiful as possible. Agree or disagree? Email me freedom charliekirk.com, would love your feedback. Get involved with TurningPoint [e-mail] that is tpusa.com Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[Michael Knowles]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Pete Hegseth]

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com of course, the breaking news that happened over the evening, over the night, I should say late last night, an early morning in Rome. The news was announced that Pope Francis has died. This is monumental news. I was reflecting. I have only lived through three popes. I have lived for 31 years and I've only lived through three popes. We have, of course, I was born and John Paul II was pope, and then Pope Benedict and now Pope Francis. He was Pope for 12 years. He was the first pope from the Americas. He tended to be a little bit questionable at times on some of his, just say, social justice perspectives. But I'm not Catholic. We do have Michael Knowles that's going to join us in the program to discuss this and the significance of it. The College of Cardinals will assemble after, of course, the funeral of Pope Francis. And Pope Francis certainly caused a lot of heartburn to Catholics in America. And so we're going to talk about the geopolitical significance of this because, remember, John Paul II was incredibly effective at fighting communism. I would love to see the next pope, whomever that is, maybe a pope from Africa or a pope from Asia or a pope from wherever, have the same sort of moral clarity that John Paul II had against totalitarian Marxism. We'll discuss that later in the hour. But first, breaking yesterday on Easter Sunday was another attack on American patriot Pete Hegseth. The New York Times launched a massive attack on the front page right here. Defense head said to send war plan to second group Hegseth. Family members and lawyer are linked to encrypted chat. There's a lot going on here, some of which I can talk about publicly, some of which I cannot talk about publicly. Let's talk about the essence of it. They're criticizing Pete Hegseth for sending war plans again in a signal group chat. Now, he denies this. It looks like it's total and complete bs. We know that there were not war plans being sent. They're trying to take out Pete Hegseth. And that really goes down to what's going on here. They're not attacking Pete Hegseth because he's failing. They are attacking Pete Hegseth because he's succeeding. Here's what they won't talk about. You see, it's not that Pete Hegseth is a disaster of a secretary of defense. Quite the opposite. He's already succeeding in the metrics that matter most from building a lethal fighting force. And we must ask the question. Throughout Koi Bono, we ask this question a lot. Who benefits from attacking Pete Hegseth? You see, it's not that the military is falling apart like it was under Joe Biden. The numbers are remarkable. First, recruiting is up. After historic lows in 2022 and 2023, the army and the Marine Corps recruiting have rebounded. In fiscal year 2024, quarter one, the army reported a 10% increase in new enlistments. Year over year, the Marine Corps hit 100% of its recruiting goals. So when Joe Biden was president and Lloyd Austin was running things, military recruitment was down. But interestingly, almost no one ever attacked them. And just to be clear, Lloyd Austin did something infinitely more inexcusable than Pete Hegseth. When he was hospitalized without telling anybody. And the chain of command of our military was largely broken because of Lloyd Austin's decision to go get. I think it was like a prostate surgery or something without telling anybody. Morale is up. A recent Rand Corporation survey shows a 15 point jump in troop satisfaction compared to 2021, particularly among combat units. It's interesting how morale goes up when you say that we're gonna have the same physical fitness standards for men and women. We're gonna get rid of the woke stuff. We're also not gonna allow transgender people in the military. And all of a sudden, boom, morale goes up. Has the media mentioned any of this or is it just the swirling attacks? Here it says Pete Hegseth is under fire. Well, he might be under fire by all the right people in dc. Instead, they should be doing a puff piece. The New York Times should be on how recruiting is up, morale is up, and yes, standards are up. The Army Combat Fitness Test, as mentioned, the acft, once watered down, has been reformed to restore challenge and purpose. And yes, even efficiency is up. Did you know that the Department of Defense's Inspector General just last month did an audit and they noted a 12% increase in procurement efficiency and project delivery timelines? Our influence also is up. Did you know in the Philippines and Taiwan, joint Exercises are up 30% year over year? And of course, most importantly, our lethality is up. The US Military is again training for war fighting, not workshops. In fiscal year 2024, combat readiness scores from Centcom and and Indopacom showed a 20% increase in unit preparedness over fiscal year 2022. These are real numbers. Morale, lethality, preparedness, efficiency. So by all objective measurements, Pete Hegseth, in his short window of time has been a roaring success, probably the most effective Secretary of defense since the new millennium. When you have a military that was bogged down by bureaucracy, wokeism and low morale, and all of a sudden you see that turned around, you have to wonder, but what is down? Exactly? What's down in the Secretary of Defense's office? What is down in the Pentagon? The influence of neocons and the failed perpetual war architects, the bureaucracy of combat forces that is down, and the weaponization of the uniform to serve ideological causes over national security. Do you know what is gone now? Pete Hegseth has removed this from the US Military and that makes him a major enemy of the entrenched permanent bureaucracy in the Pentagon. When he removes the gay poems from our battleships, it turns out that you can have a 30% increase in war games. Turns out that you could be 12% more efficient. Playcut 134.

[Steve Bannon]

The coolest thing I did on board was to be able to participate in a LGBTQ spoken word night. And I was able to read a poem that I wrote to the whole ship, and that was probably the culmination of the whole deployment.

[Charlie Kirk]

This whole thing is done. That whole operation is done. You know, I'm gonna go read an LGBT gay poem on top of a battleship. And turns out when you remove that, efficiency, lethality, morale, recruitment, all goes up. This is also gone. Here's another one. While in uniform, we see the PSA on how to use pronouns. Our own military was a major college campus with Tomahawk missiles. Our military was becoming Harvard with drones. That's what it was under Lloyd Austin and Mark Milley. Speaking of which, you know what else is down? The BMI of the Secretary of Defense. Way down. Warrior culture is ascendant, which is exactly why the knives are out. For Pete Hegseth about this rubbish story. Oh, he's putting stuff in signal chats. Look at the core essence of what's happening here. Steve Bannon would say, look at the signal, not the noise. He has removed this cancer rather quickly. Look at this play. Cut 132.

[Johnny]

Hi, my name is Johnny, and I use he, him pronouns. Using the right pronouns is a really simple way to affirm someone's identity. It is a signal of acceptance and respect.

[Unknown]

If it's a signal of acceptance and respect, how do we go about creating a safe space for everybody?

[Johnny]

That's a good question. A really good way to do that is to use inclusive language. Instead of saying something like, hey, guys, you can say, hey, everyone.

[Unknown]

Another way that we could show that we're allies and that we accept everybody is to maybe include our pronouns in our emails or like we just did, introduce ourselves using our pronouns.

[Charlie Kirk]

This was an official military broadcast under Joe Biden, and not a single criticism from the media, not a single criticism from the regime. No, instead we have the Alpha man ascendant, the warrior ethos back into the Pentagon. And that is what gets their attention. But there, of course, is another thing. Despite the fact that we're more lethal, morale is up and recruiting is up and efficiency is up, and that we have a real warrior leading things. No, no, no, no. There's another thing at play here, and we're gonna go a level deeper, because Pete Hegseth stands in the way of the drums of war. Do you hear that? Dubum da bum da da bum da da bum da. Da bum da da bum. Oh, the neocons, they want to strike Iran more than anything else. They want a ground war with Iran. And Pete Hegseth stands atop the Pentagon to say not today neocon. We ran on America first, not colonizing Iran. Hey everybody, Charlie Kirk here. So you've heard me talk about Patriot Mobile for a while now. You probably already know that for years they've stood in the gap for every American who believes that faith, family and freedom are worth fighting for. They are the real deal. But did you know they've got cutting edge technology too? Switching is easy. No store visits, no hassle. Keep your number, keep your phone or upgrade. They're 100% US based customer service team can activate you in minutes right over the phone. And get this. Patriot Mobile is one of the few carriers with access to all three major US networks. This means exceptional nationwide coverage. Plus they can even put a second number on a different network on one phone. It's like carrying two phones in one. They have an unlimited data plans, mobile hotspots, international roaming, Internet on the go devices and home Internet backup. You can't get all this from the big guys. So what are you waiting for? Go to patriotmobile.com Charlie or call 972 Patriot and make the switch. Today. That is patriotmobile.com Charlie. Pete Hegseth is succeeding. He's making us the finest fighting force on the planet. Here's breaking news. President Trump backing Pete Hegseth live from the Easter egg roll. Great job team getting that clip. Thank you for that in real time. Playcut144.

[Pete Hegseth]

I mean I hear they're doing that whole thing again. Here we go again. Just a waste of time. He is doing a great job because he's doing a great job.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you.

[Pete Hegseth]

Ask. Ask the hoodies how he's doing. Ask the hoodies how much dysfunction is. Pete's doing a great job. Everybody's happy with him. We have the highest recruitment numbers I think they've had in 28 years. No, he's doing a great job. It's just fake news. They just bring up stories. I guess it sounds like disgruntled employees. You know he was put there to get rid of a lot of bad people and that's what he's doing. So you don't always have friends when you do that.

[Charlie Kirk]

One more piece here about the Wokeism then. I do want to focus on Iran which again we on this program we have a very clear moral standard. Iran cannot get nuclear weapon. But you also, you gotta keep Lindsey Graham and Tom Cotton away because they right there and their staff, they're. They're beating the war drums. There is an undercurrent to try to take out everyone around Pete Hegseth and eventually do an encirclement around the Pentagon so that they can have a clear shot at bombing Iran. And then, look, once you bomb Iran, that's a declaration of war. What do you get next? We don't know. You might get troops, you might get movements. You can't play games with this stuff. A war with Iran would break the back of this administration. One more on what I just want to remind you what our military was becoming. Morale was down, recruitment was down. We were a sad fighting force under Joe Biden. And very quickly, President Trump entrusting Pete Hegsethes brought it back. Plight cut 136.

[Steve Bannon]

Not a day goes by that I'm not grateful to be serving at this period of time being able to undergo a full gender transition beyond hormones, laser hair removal, Botox, lip injections, hair lowering, like literally cannot be more thankful to be alive.

[Charlie Kirk]

Now, this is a member of the military talking about the lip injections and the gender transition and how thankful that military member is to be alive whenever. Rubbish. That is hair removal. That's what our military was that Pete Hegseth inherited. All funded by taxpayers. The military is no longer a safe space for this radical woke ideology. We're back to not hair removal, but terrorist removal. Not gender transition, but enemy elimination. Lethality at all costs. But Pete Hagseth is a prudent man. You see, of course, it is inevitably. Not inevitably, but it is President Trump's final decision whether or not we go to war with Iran. He doesn't want to do that. But understand all of the machinery around President Trump can be very persuasive and can be incredibly powerful in how military decisions are made. Let's play cut 112 here. I think it's around Iran. No, I'm sorry, that's something else. That's Pete Hegseth defending himself at the Egg Roll. I do want to play that. Let me just say this very, very quickly. The people around the president matter. Back in the first term, it was Mad Dog Mattis and Mike Pence that were literally launching a collusive conspiracy to try and get President Trump to support keeping troops in Afghanistan. Let's play cut 112.

[Unknown]

You know what a big surprise that a few leakers get fired and suddenly a bunch of hit pieces come out from the same media that peddled the Russia hoax. Won't Give back their Pulitzers. They got Pulitzers for a bunch of lies. See, this is what the media does. They take anonymous sources from disgruntled former employees, and then they try to slash and burn people and ruin their reputation.

[Charlie Kirk]

And Pete Hegseth is right there. He is pushing back against the media attacks because people that he fired for leaking to the media are now attacking him. Okay, great. But that's not really what's going on here. It's a level deeper. He knows it. It's about the warmongers that never wanted him. Remember, Pete Hegseth was at a 5050 vote. Do you remember what we had to do on this program? You remember the effort, the energy, the intensity, the vigor, the spunk, the spirit, the mobilization. It was supposed to be the era of good feelings. It was December. We just won the election. Oh, I was in Palm Beach. You guys were nicely supporting our program, and we felt as if the fights were over. But, no, we mobilized the calvary. We mobilized the infantry, metaphorically. And we said Pete was a red line. And we said, oh, Joni Ernst, I don't think you want to do this. And, boy, did she make a 180. Very quickly. She did not realize. Poof. She touched the stove and realized it was scolding hot. They did not want Pete Hegseth all along because they knew that he was not one of them. That P. Hegseth is actually a grassroots warrior, number one. Number two, he's a fighter's fighter, and he doesn't want a war with Iran. That's why they try to take him out then and now. And we have his back. The world is waking up to the power of gold. National banks are scrambling to secure it. According to the World Gold Council, central banks added 1,000 tons of gold in 2024, the third straight year of net gold buying. They understand what many investors don't. Gold is real money. Unlike paper currency, gold's value doesn't disappear with inflation, reckless government spending, or market crashes. Now, Noble Gold Investments makes it easy for you to claim your share as our new administration works to reverse the economic chaos of the past. Market swings are inevitable. When uncertainty rises, you need something solid, something to keep you on the path to financial freedom. Gold can be that foundation. And right now, when you make a qualified investment, Noble Gold will send you a free 10th ounce of a cold coin. Visit noblegoldinvestments.com that's noblegoldinvestments.com the world is turning to gold. Shouldn't you be looking into doing that, too? Joining us now is a great friend and very serious Catholic, a devout Catholic on this Easter Monday this news broke. It is Michael Knowles from the Michael Knowles Show. When I want guidance and wisdom on all things Catholicism, I go to Michael Knowles. Michael, great to see you.

[Michael Knowles]

Charlie, it's great to be with you. I'm sorry that I can't be on camera. The timing of this is really odd. I was walking down this morning to the Easter egg hunt at the White House and I got my whole family with me at 6:00 in the morning and I see that the Holy Father has died. And I thought, you know, of all the mornings to take off work, this is probably one of the worst ones I could have taken off. But alas, I'm glad that I could at least phone in because I think people are having a lot of trouble processing the news. I mean, you and I have talked about the Pope for years at this point, and I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. There are plenty of conservatives and conservative Catholics have had a lot of questions with Pope Francis and problems with some of the things he's done. So there's no sugar coating. But I think when we consider his legacy, the most notable aspect of it to me is that left, right, political analysis doesn't totally map onto ancient institutions. That's kind of my biggest takeaway with Pope Francis, because whenever we think we can pin him down, we say, all right, he's Argentinian, he comes from this kind of left wing economic background. Then he'll come out and say something like, gay marriage is a machination of the Father of lies to deceive and confuse the children of God. Every time we think he's going soft on some social issue, he'll say, abortion is an assassination. Abortionists are hired assassins. And so you can't really pin him down. And I think part of the reason for that is just the. The weight of the Catholic Church. You know, it's just. It's just been around for so long and so we can't. Our modern notions of politics, you know, they take you as far as they take you. But it would be a disservice to the man, really, to try to just minimize him in that way.

[Charlie Kirk]

So his passing was today. We've only lived through three popes. I don't know how. I'm guessing. I don't know your age exactly, Michael, but yeah, three popes.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I'm not 60, I was gonna say.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's right. And just think about, I mean, rather monumental, how few Popes there are and so let's get technical for a second, Michael. I, as you know, am not Catholic. I'm an evangelical. A lot of respect for Catholics, and a lot of people that I care about are Catholic. And, you know, we know a lot of good local Catholics here, including local Father. What is the College of Cardinals? What is about to happen? So everyone meets in Rome, Sistine Chapel. Who's involved in it? It's kind of a good old boys network is what I'm told. Did Pope Francis put a lot of his allies in there? Just walk us through the technical details, what we can expect for the selection of a new pope. Because it gets a little rusty here, because we've only seen it a couple times in our lifetime.

[Michael Knowles]

That's true. And this, what we're doing right now, has been happening for about 2,000 years, which is immediately when the seat is vacant. They call it sede vacante. When a pope dies, immediately everyone starts talking about who's the next one going to be? How does it happen? So the Cardinal Camarlengo comes out. This is his position in the Vatican. He's announced the pope's death, and there will be a period of about 15 to no more than 20 days of mourning. And then the College of Cardinals is going to assemble. The cardinals are bishops who are picked by the pope and as sort of advisors and have positions within the Vatican. Bishops under the age of 80. Sorry, cardinals under the age of 80 can vote for a pope in the College of Cardinals. So they're not only within the College of Cardinals, but they're cardinal electors. They're all going to meet. There are about, I think, about 180 of them right now who are eligible to vote. They're going to go into the Sistine Chapel, and then you're not going to hear anything else. The way that you're going to know that they picked a pope is through smoke coming out of the Vatican. So, you know, classically, you're looking for the white smoke or the black smoke. And then when the right smoke comes up, then they're going to say, abemus papam. So who's it going to be? Because, again, not to sugarcoat some of the questions that have come up under the Francis pontificate, a lot of people are saying, is the next pope going to be really liberal? Is he going to, I don't know, try to undermine the Catholic tradition or something like that? And again, you know, it's really hard to predict these things. But just because Pope Francis has appointed now so many cardinals does not necessarily mean that the cardinals are politically liberal or, you know, I don't know, side with Pope Francis on this issue or that issue. You know, a lot of these popes are in the developing world. A lot of them are socially very, very conservative. And so the ones who are up for it right now, one who's been talked about is Cardinal Pizzaballa. He's the Latin Patriarch of Jerusalem. That would be quite interesting given what touchpoint Jerusalem has been in the Israel, Gaza conflict. Another one who's up for it would be Peter Erdo. He's in Hungary, also considered moderate to conservative. There are a few who seem to be a little bit more liberal. That would be Cardinal Zupi, Matteo Zupi, or Cardinal Parolin. But again, we don't really know. You know, in some ways, it's kind of like the, the Supreme Court justices. You know, Republicans pick these Supreme Court justices, and then half of the time they go on and disappoint us. They rule in ways that are totally different than we expected. And that could happen, you know, as well with popes. I mean, just use the example of John Paul ii, who everyone loves. Don't forget, John Paul II was a child of Vatican ii, of this major ecumenical council which resulted in all sorts of reforms that some of the reforms that followed the Second Vatican Council, some of us think had some problems with them, especially those of us who love the traditional Latin Mass, the traditional liturgy. And yet Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict, for that matter, you know, considered perhaps even more conservative. Both of these guys come out of the Vatican Council and yet they become some of the most stalwart, conservative seeming figures of our lifetime. So I guess getting back to the top, that's what I mean when I say you can't totally map this stuff onto left, right, politics. And also you might think you've got a slam dunk with whichever cardinal is going to be the next pope. It doesn't have to be a cardinal. It technically, I suppose, could be me, but no one's picked up the phone yet to call me. So, you know, you think you might know what the next pontificate's going to look like. Really, at this point, we have no idea.

[Charlie Kirk]

What do you want to see in the next Pope? I mean, obviously it would help if he's Catholic, but what would you like to see as far as the advocacy internationally? You mentioned John Paul ii. As I was raised, my grandmother, incredibly devout Catholic, wonderful person. We grew up talking about John Paul ii, about his moral clarity, about his uncompromising views on the protective Life and honestly how he believed the west was the best. He was an articulate and effective critic of the Soviet Union. Being the Polish Pope, he was vehemently anti Communist. He made no mystery or no mistake with that. What would you like to see in the next Pope? And let's talk less regionally or less biographically, but from a. From a positional. Let's just say from the position of the Pope. What would you like to see?

[Michael Knowles]

Right. What's he gonna do? You know, not that anyone's called to ask me, however, but you have called to ask me, so I'm happy to answer. And maybe people in the Curia could listen. I think what would be really helpful to the Church in the next Pope is to have a Pope who is not hostile to tradition, to the traditional liturgy. You know, what we call the Mass of the Ages, the traditional Latin Mass. A lot of people think the traditional Latin Mass is just the new Mass that we have, but in Latin, that's not true. They're really different Masses. The new Mass has removed a lot of prayers. The new Mass actually could be said in Latin, but it usually is not. You know, the reason I mention this is not just because I'm a fuddy duddy and I have bow ties or something. It's because there is so much beauty in this Mass that endured substantially unchanged for about 1400 years. There's so much beauty that it's attracting a lot of people back to the church.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's true. You're seeing amazing stories.

[Michael Knowles]

I mean, you saw this in France just on Easter Sunday. You had a record number of baptisms in the uk. Now you've got this massive resurgence in the Catholic Church in England, for goodness sakes. Birthplace. This is the land of Henry viii. And yet now Catholics are outnumbering Anglicans. I mean, it's this unthinkable. I don't know what you want to call it. Springtime for the Church. A lot of the people who are converting are converting not because of innovations or electric guitars or something, but because of the old smells and bells. Yeah, listen, I play electric guitar. I'm not totally opposed to electric guitar.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm kidding. You're onto something. You're onto something. You're on. You're not wrong.

[Michael Knowles]

I mean, they love. I mean, I think you could say this, Charlie, even from the evangelical perspective, where people are returning, it's where they find orthodoxy. It's not where they want more of the world. Right. They want something a little. A little higher than the world, at least for Sunday.

[Charlie Kirk]

Morning.

[Michael Knowles]

That would be what I would hope.

[Charlie Kirk]

For in a pope, especially young men. They see a world consumed by evil and falling apart, and they want one thing that hasn't changed in 2,000 years. And they say, hey, this place has lasted. And I know it's gonna last another 2,000 years because it hasn't changed. So that's what I want. Michael, in closing here, what is the timeline? When can we expect a new Pope, would you say? And I'm sure there'll be a lot of coverage and drama out of Rome in the coming days and weeks.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, officially, there's no campaigning, there's no jockeying. And of course, the reality might differ from the official way it's supposed to go.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I don't know about that.

[Michael Knowles]

I could see us having. I bet we could have a pope within three weeks or maybe just after three weeks. I don't think it's going to take very long. I think that people have been expecting this now ever since Pope Francis most recent illness. So I think things are going to move rather quickly. I think the number of cardinals who are really is pretty small. I think you could basically count them on one hand. So I don't think it's going to be long now. I mean, just as young people are returning to the Church because they want stability, they want order, they want orthodoxy. I think the Vatican wants some stability, too. And so I think it's going to happen fast.

[Charlie Kirk]

Michael Nulls, excellent work as always. Check out the Michael Nulls show and we will be praying for you guys. Hope a good decision is made and someone that leads people back to our Lord. Thank you so much, Michael. Why Refi helps refinance private student loans? A lot of students still have private student loan debt and it's been grandfathered in. I want you to think to yourself, everyone in the audience knows someone with private student loan debt, and it's probably crushing them. Think, think, think. Who is it? Is it a son? Is it a daughter? Is it a niece? Is it a nephew? Is it you? Do you have those bills coming from these private student loan debts? You're like, this is too much. Why Refi? They're phenomenal. They're very ethical. They're patriotic. If you are going to do debt resettlement, which is perfectly fine, it's understandable. In fact, it's admirable. This is the company to do it. Not just some local yokel that is running some billboard thing that might throw it off. This right here, I know them. They help support us. They support Amfest. They Support our Student Action Summit. They support our Young Women's Leadership Summit. They are a driving ascendant force. Go to yrefi.com may not be available in all 50 states. Yrefy.com kind of piggybacking on what we were talking about with Michael Knowles. As an evangelical Christian. I want to talk about this story here from the New York Post. I think it's very interesting and instructive in a variety of ways. Young people are converting to Catholicism en masse, driven by pandemic Internet and lax alternatives. First of all, I see this happening on the ground. In fact, I'm in a group chat with some amazing Protestant evangelical pastors. I said, guys, this is a trend that's happening. Are you seeing it? They all agreed that young men in particular are joining the Catholic Church, even more so than the evangelical type churches in the local area. Some pastors had some theories, including my friend Pastor James Cadiz, which I think he was spot on with, saying that young people like the liturgy and that they're very disappointed in the wokeism and the liberalism of a lot of the evangelical churches. But let me go a little a step further and build this out. There is so little tradition today that people seek it out. Our society is increasingly ugly. Go to a shopping mall. Do any of those buildings elevate? You go to the local McDonald's. We used to be a country that even the local convenience store was built with the intent that it wanted to lift up the people that would shop there. The town hall or the town center. For example, get a picture of Prescott, Arizona's town center. Just city hall. Just an example. Just get an example of any one of these old western towns, what they used to build. And again, Blake would know these examples better than I would. There's hundreds of them now. When we build a city council, if you guys could get Arlington Heights City Hall, Illinois and contrast that with the Prescott, Arizona City Hall. Yes, get Prescott, Arizona. This is the Yavapai courthouse. That's a beautiful building, built with Roman columns. It's there. So it's a courthouse. So it's supposed to resemble structure, order. So it's built with a lot of rigidity, but it still lifts you up with the highest thing being the flag. Now contrast that with the Arlington Heights City hall, which might as well just be the Department of ag. Actually, that's more beautiful than I remember it, but not as inspiring. At least they have a clock tower to their defense. Good pull though, guys. That's a much more. That's a much more appealing picture than actually. It's actually a huge parking garage. It's hard not to feel like evangelicalism is very shallow in the comparison to an ancient liturgy. And to be honest, the trend that we are seeing is a very positive one. People are seeking tradition. And what I hear from young people in particular is they say everything is changing. I don't need a worship song with an electric guitar and smoke. I want to feel holy. And to be perfectly honest, it's a learning lesson for a lot of pastors I talk to. If you are not creating environment where the people that come to your church can find holiness and meaning and can be elevated, you're not doing your job. There was a time in the 90s where people were hungry for a personal encounter with God. And evangelicalism, I think, offers that better than some Catholicism circles. Maybe that's to be debated. But times change and needs and appetites change. And I could tell you on Saturday evening I wanted to honor our Lord the night before the resurrection. So I knew the local Catholic church was doing an Easter vigil. Mind you, this goes from 8pm to midnight. An Easter vigil is a very long standing tradition in the Catholic Church where they read basically almost the entire, but they read for most, the whole Bible. I go there and I couldn't find a seat at 10pm at night on a Saturday night. And over half the people there were people my age. It was like a selfie line, just trying to get in there. Everyone knew, they followed the show. I said, is this a Turning Point rally or is this an Easter vigil? The night before our Lord? Again, I'm not Catholic, but I went there because when I walk into that specific Catholic church, I point up it's not a Costco with a rock band and a TED Talk and good coffee. To be honest, I've had enough of that. I don't want to go to Sam's Club to go to church or a school gym. Kind of enjoy the holiness, the beauty, the pageantry, the structure, the tradition and the reverence. So I totally get it. God bless those churches for elevating our soul. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless.

[Unknown]

For more on many of these stories.

[Charlie Kirk]

And news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.