← The Charlie Kirk Show
The Charlie Kirk Show
Are Miracles Real? Unpacking the Importance of Faith in Times Like These
00:46:53
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, everybody, miracles are real. We are with the great Eric Metaxas talking about how God can work in a time like this. If you want to support our program, it's charliekirk.com support. Email us your questions freedomarliekirk.com and if you want to get involved with Turning Point USA, go to tpusa.com Eric Metaxas is here. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.
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B
Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the Weiss. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.
- [00:44]
A
We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Do you know that's just about two weeks till Christmas. It's incredible. I love Christmas season. Some people don't like it. It is our crazy season here at Turning Point usa. We got people running all over the place, people filming stuff. We got Student Action Summit coming up in Palm Beach. It's a crazy time, and it's a good time to be alive despite all the chaos, the uncertainty and the confusion. But I know a lot of you guys want to give back, and we've been given so much. So let's. Let's do just that. And let's try to get behind an effort that makes a very serious difference. This Christmas season, we've been partnering with Prison Fellowship. They've served over 300,000 children of prisoners, coordinating Christmas blessings for prisoners children through their annual Angel Tree program. But time is short and it takes a lot of work to line up families. And look, this is about the kids. Kids should not be punished because their mom and dad are in prison. And for just $22, you can help share the love of Christ right here on my show. Your gift is the most important. Volunteers like dawn from Dallas know that every donation, large or small, is so important. Children of prisoners deserve to experience the love of Christ that only you can make happen. So please make sure these precious kids are never forgotten. Just go to charliekirk.com and click on the Angel Tree Banner. $22 delivers joy to one child or just a gift of $220. You can bless 10 children of prisoners with a special Christmas present. Angel Tree family is also given access to a free, easy to read copy of the Bible in English or Spanish. So once more, please go to charliekirk.com, click on that Angel Tree banner or phone 888-206-2802 to join my campaign for prison fellowships Angel Tree this year. But please hurry, Christmas is two weeks away. Hey, everybody. Such a blessing. That's the word for it. Friend of mine, and honestly, someone who has taught me so much, a teacher, a rabbi Eric Matax is with us in studio here in Phoenix, Arizona.
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B
Did you just call me a rabbi?
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A
That's right. You're a teacher.
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B
A rabbi without a beard.
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A
That's right.
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B
That's a real compliment. I always want to end on a high note. Can I leave now?
- [03:09]
A
That's it. Well, it's the old. It's the old George Costanza line.
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B
Are we gonna go toe to toe?
- [03:13]
A
You lose every time, Eric.
- [03:16]
B
I just realized there are people watching. They don't know what we're talking about. The Seinfeld stuff. The T shirt that he refers to as his favorite T shirt where he says golden Boy. Unfortunately, that's what I think of you. You're golden boy, and you know that. You're the golden boy. It's Charlie Kirk. He's young. He's amazing. You're golden boy. Golden boy. Okay, let's just do. Aha. Hello. Oh, my gosh.
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A
We're just gonna step behind. What kind of pasta did George order? But he thinks it's overrated, actually.
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B
Pesto, pesto, pesto.
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A
There you go. La puerta esta.
- [03:56]
B
Esta abierta. The door must be closed. He's got sixth grade and the cat was named. Frightened by the explosion. Let's not talk about this. Wait. We just talk about Donald Trump or something, you know?
- [04:12]
A
Yes. So what do you think?
- [04:13]
B
What do I think? I'm going to say some freaky stuff. I'm going to freak out the young people. Young people, are you ready? I'm speaking. I'm the rabbi. You got to listen. Here's what I think, Charlie. I think this is. I want to get to the stem cells of this idea rather than those of us who believe in the God of the Bible sometimes, or I'll say usually, don't live like we do. In other words, we don't. We kind of hedge our bets like we're sort of living in this world, but we know God can do miracles. We da, da, da, da. But we're not really living the way you would if Jesus were in the room. And I think there are times when God wants to remind us, like hey, hey, hey. Real. Like, I'm not an idea. I'm not a philosophy. I'm real. And God acts in history. And I believe that. I mean, this is kind of complicated, but I believe firmly that Trump has been used by God in a way that most of the mature Christians that I know. When I say mature Christians, I don't mean intellectually and theologically. I mean people who. Who walk with God and know him, they recognize that. They recognize that flawed dude named Donald Trump has God's hand on him. If that's the case, and it is the case, it's hard to think God would not take a personal interest in what's happening right now. And I'll go a step further. You can even put Trump to the side and talk about America. God has had his hand on this nation from the beginning. And like anybody, like Donald Trump, we're not perfect and whatever, but God has had his hand on this nation. And I think this is one of those rare times when I believe God will act, in other words, in the natural, if you just look at the facts, looks really bad. And I think, yeah, it looks really bad. It looked really bad when Pharaoh's army was bearing down on the Israelites who had the Red Sea behind them. But there are times when God does things like parts the Red Sea. And so I'm not saying that that has to happen, but I have a sense that it will. I have a sense that we're in that kind of a moment in history. I could talk in the natural, but let me just say this. What is happening? You and I talked about this on my program. When you see something happening, like what is happening now? In other words, you firmly believe, and I believe, that Trump actually won and that there's been massive fraud. Like, you believe that, right?
- [07:12]
A
Okay, 100%.
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B
But. Okay, so let's just stop. But I'm saying. But let's just stop. So you believe that. So my attitude is like, so who cares what I can prove in the courts? This is right. This happened. And I'm just gonna do anything I can to uncover this horror, this evil. The idea that somebody would. I mean, let's think. What could be the level of arrogance, brazenness, evil to steal? It's not stealing an election. It's like stealing the heart and soul of America. It's like holding a rusty knife to the throat of Lady Liberty. Like, that's what it. It's not some, you know, chicanery that happened and they got away with it. This is evil. And you need to Frame it that way. You need to say, ladies and gentlemen, it's like somebody is being raped or murdered. And you say, that just happens. And you're like, that just happens. What's wrong with you? Are you dead? You have no soul. You don't care about that. You don't feel justice must be done. This is that times a thousand. This country has blessed unfathomable millions around the world in every kind of way, has spread liberty across the globe, around the globe. And I believe it's God's will that we would continue to do that at an increased level for a long time. So the idea that somebody would come in and do something like this, my attitude is just like, I don't care what we need to do. That is so unacceptable that if somebody says to me, well, the odds of you winning, I'd be like, you know what? I don't care about the odds. What's right is right. That is so wrong. We need to do absolutely everything we can, and what's gonna happen is gonna happen, but we need to fight to the death, to the last drop of blood, because it's worth it.
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A
And we don't know where we are on the curve. For example, we might be one testimony away from another whistleblower coming out that could change everything.
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B
That's right.
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A
So the curve is. We don't know it. Only God knows where that curve is. And the best example of this is how deep investigations, you never know when you're just one door knock away or one witness away from, all of a sudden the entire thing changing in your direction because you know you're onto something. And all the great prosecutors and all the great investigations in American history say that they hit kind of dead. They hit dead ends. All of a sudden. There's just a moment where things start to change. And the example that you and I didn't talk about on your program, but it started as conspiracy theory. And then all of a sudden, it became a little bit more mainstream. And then all of a sudden, people looked into it. And then one piece of evidence changed everything by mistake, which was Watergate was when they started looking into this, just kind of roughly and loosely. Somebody said, well, yeah, President Dick was what they called him, used to have all those tapes around. They're like, he had tapes, right? And they said, let's go subpoena the tapes. And then, of course, the first question to Nixon from Frost was, why didn't you destroy the tapes? And then all of a sudden changed everything, right? The tapes showed up.
- [10:16]
B
Well, and think about what we're talking about, we're talking about a big nothing. I mean, Watergate compared to what we're talking about here. It's like talking about a traffic violation versus mass murder. I mean, this is. This is the theft of America. And so my attitude would be, it's kind of like if you're in an investigation to find your daughter who has been kidnapped and could be being raped or murdered or something like that, you wouldn't think about what are the odds of success. You would say, I will die trying. And I will either succeed or I will die trying. We need to have that attitude about America because there are issues, innumerable lives, that people will suffer tremendously around the world and in this country if this happens. This is just one of the most grotesque things. And the fact that people don't see that, that's what blows my mind. That's what blows. That people are kind of like, well, I don't care. And I think you don't care that somebody would like, you might as well spit on the grave of George Washington. I guess that doesn't mean anything to you either. This is. This is sacred. And so this is not a bank theft is nothing compared compared to this. And so every American should just be furious and say, I really don't care what it takes. We will not let this happen in America.
- [11:32]
A
And part of the trouble that conservatives and Republicans are having right now is you make the great point, is that they're making the argument that there's a moral equivalency to almost the Houston Astros sign stealing scandal, as if this is kind of a. An annoyance. It's bad. Let's try to hold it accountable. It's not even close to Bill Belichick filming the other team to try to win a football game.
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B
Right.
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A
This is real stuff.
- [11:55]
B
That's right. Well, that's what I was gonna say. If people have that attitude, it's not
- [11:58]
A
Mark McGuire and stuff.
- [11:59]
B
They deserve.
- [12:01]
A
I could go on.
- [12:01]
B
They deserve a Biden presidency and the dissolution of the greatest country in the history of the world. Like, those people deserve that. By God's grace, I hope they don't get that. But that is. I mean, look, it's like I wrote a book about Bonhoeffer and Germany in the 30s and how many Germans shrugged? Today we look back and we go, how is it possible? How is it possible? These people. I never would have done that. That's exactly everybody who has not hopped up about this and discussed it that people would try to do a thing like this. You are the Germans that look the other way when Hitler was preparing to do what he was preparing to do. And unfortunately, I don't see how you could see it any other way. This is the scandal of anybody's lifetime. There's nothing to compare to it. And the fact that people would shrug, the fact that Republicans would shrug, it's just despicable. It's very clarifying, and I just believe God is in it. What can I say when I.
- [13:05]
A
The collection of people who are actually speaking out about this is an unusual cast of characters, I have to say, because the people we would have thought would have been leading the charge on this are kind of nowhere to be seen. They're kind of on the move on coalition. I don't want to get into any specific names.
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B
You don't?
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A
Well, some of them are my friends, and some of them are, I think, are in. You can mention anything you want. I just have to be. I'm trying to be magnanimous, let's just put it that way. And I think everyone knows exactly who I'm talking about. Where all of a sudden they just kind of.
- [13:32]
B
Maybe the people who listen to your podcast know, but, I mean, most people in America wouldn't know. No, I mean, I don't know. I mean, I just think that it's what I've said in the sense that. How else to see it? If somebody tries to steal an American election, everyone's head should explode and say, what? What? Like, what do you mean? This is kind of like trying to assassinate the president. Imagine somebody's caught trying to blow the president's brains out, and you go, you know what? Everybody has a bad day.
- [14:01]
A
Lee Harvey Oswald let it go.
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B
Like, let's just let it go. And you'd say, what do you mean, let it go? He tried to kill the President of the United States. This is worse than trying to kill the President of the United States. This is trying to kill Lady Liberty. This is trying to kill Uncle Sam. This is trying to kill the American people. This is everything. We don't have the luxury of looking the other way or letting this go.
- [14:24]
A
One of the reasons why you're not seeing the backlash is because of the corporate tactics behind this. And let me tell you what I mean by this as we're doing this podcast right now. The Dow has its highest. The highest amount ever. Five days after the election, the vaccine gets announced. It's almost as if, as the fraud started to get investigated, people want it. They want it. The corporate leaders and the masters of the universe the ruling class, they wanted to tell people, oh, look how good things are about to get. You really don't want to fight that hard.
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B
Thanks to Donald Trump, of course.
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A
But people aren't connecting it. They're looking at. It's because of now, the pseudo president, the soon to be president, Joe Biden. But what I'm saying, though, Eric, is that really good people that voted for Trump, some of them are now quietly saying, it's time to give up, just move on. Yeah, I voted for him.
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B
Let me just interrupt.
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A
What would drive someone to do that?
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B
I wanna tell you. There's a film. Most people listening to this haven't seen it, but it's the famous film with Laurence Olivier and what's her name? I can't think of it, but it's the one with Mrs. Danvers. She's the housekeeper and she's really evil and whatever. And there's a moment where the young lady is at the window and she's in such despair, she just wants to die. And Mrs. Danvers says to her, why don't you do it? Meaning jump out and die. Why don't you do it? Go ahead. It would be so easy. That's the voice of the devil. When people say, I think maybe we should give up, I'm just gonna say bluntly, that's the voice of the devil. This is not small enough to say that it's anything less. What is at stake, the lives at stake around the world. I mean, if I were being persecuted for my faith in China right now, if I was being persecuted for my faith in North Korea, if I was living in the inner city in America right now, I would hope that America would remain America and would become more so, would become freer and more people would embrace these things, because that would be my only hope. The people in the Gulag, when Reagan said, Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall, it got to them. It got back to them, and it gave them hope that there's somebody out there fighting for freedom, which means he's fighting for us. That is where we are right now. And you could hate Trump and you would still, morally, you should be so disgusted that somebody would do this in the United States of America that it's irrelevant. It becomes not about Trump.
- [17:08]
A
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- [18:34]
B
Oh, that's right. Well, that's part of it. And then also, they don't really even believe that there was much theft. You know, it's minor to them.
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A
It's a minor thing. There are some camps there, but even the ones that refuse to entertain it, which is most of the media chattering class, they've convinced themselves that Donald Trump is Benito Mussolini.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I will do whatever is best.
- [18:53]
B
That's right. That's right.
- [18:54]
A
And by the way, if he was Benito Mussolini, I would cheat. I would totally cheat. But that's right, I would harvest ballots. I vote twice. If it was actually Mussolini in the White House.
- [19:02]
B
Yeah. But here's the problem. He's not. So that's the problem. No, no, I know, I know. But I'm saying it's kind of. It's fascinating. It's kind of like explaining why the person pulled the gun and blew someone away. Like you can understand everything, but then it turns out the person they killed wasn't trying to rob them, was not breaking into their home. It was their neighbor trying to do something. You know, and you find out later and you say, oh, we didn't know. So I understand there. But listen, I have friends that hate Trump and they're on that side of things. And I get it. They're wrong in my mind, but I get it. But I still feel that those of us who Know that this is massive fraud. We have no choice but to fight. We have absolutely no choice. It would be such a dereliction of duty that history will remember and will blame us forever. Because it's one thing if you don't know. It's one thing if you've convinced yourself it's nonsense. But if you know, how can you not fight? So we're in just the most bizarre moment of my life. There's never been anything like this.
- [20:15]
A
I have a strange amount of peace, and I might be the only person out there that does. And it's not necessarily a piece about this particular outcome. It's just a kind of broader piece of what I know we're entering into, no matter what, which is this is a season of conflict. It's not going to stop. We're bracing for impact. We're building up the infantry. If Trump is successful in overturning this, do you think we're gonna have more or less conflict? Of course we'll have more.
- [20:43]
B
Well, I think. I'll be honest, I'm of two minds on this. I think that because at the beginning of this conversation, I raised the specter of God intervening if God, which I don't discount, could intervene in terms of uncovering the fraud and whatever. And look, let's face it, if you've got real crime and you've got real corruption, every American should want to find it and get rid of it. Like, we should all want that, right? But if that were to happen, my question is there are a number of scenarios in which that could be so clear that a lot of people who are sort of your normal Americans would say, wow, I didn't realize. And it changes the public perception. So I know that the lunatics who believe in violence and stuff think they're gonna do that, but I don't know that it has to happen. I think if prayer can uncover corruption, if prayer can have this boat right itself, prayer can also calm down the violence. So I'm hopeful.
- [21:49]
A
I mean, we're going into a perpetual spiritual political conflict. Regardless of what happens. I don't think that the left, in their current form, is gonna become more likely to all of a sudden want to become part of the American culture. I don't think that's gonna happen in the next decade.
- [22:06]
B
I guess I. Let me say this, Charlie. This is maybe the key. This is the key, if you think about it. In other words, if the real problem, and this is my thesis, is that the cultural elites, which is to say the media and the various other places where the cultural elites are. Do not really represent that many people, in other words, unless they have propaganda on their side and they feed this information. But if the people to whom they're feeding the information, in other words, I would say how many people are the committed Marxists and the committed whatever? Not that many. So if you're able to change the narrative at all, a lot of people who would normally, they watch CNN and they just kind of get this. They would, in fact, not be part of that anymore. And that is my hope. It's not the kind of thing that I would say is I could bank on it. But I think if you really think about what has Trump been warring against, isn't it that, in other words, the idea that there are all these people out there lying and attacking and whatever, that ultimately has to have its own reckoning. So it's one thing is the voting, but there's also that. And I do have a hope that we can maybe, if not get to the bottom of it, deal with a lot of it.
- [23:29]
A
And so what I mean by I have peace, it's that I believe the conflict is inevitable with this superstructure of the American left that has been created. And the peace I have is not because I think the conflict will be avoided. It's just we're going to have peace in the midst of the conflict. Yeah. And I believe we're going to win. And I think we're learning how to defeat the left. I think Trump is teaching us how to do it, and I think we're getting better at it. And I think that almost as, you know, as every different kind of, as every year goes on, we as a conservative movement are becoming tougher and more agile and better voices are getting elevated.
- [24:06]
B
That's exactly right.
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A
That's kind of where I'm getting a little bit more peace. Again, it's not even political. I'm just talking about cultural.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I think the left is actually getting nastier. They're not getting better at fighting. Despite whatever results we're supposed to process, they're actually decreasing in numbers.
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B
Well, also, I mean, and you know this. By definition, they're the snake swallowing its own tail. In other words, if you're riding on the back of something. You know, I'm gonna get my metaphors all mixed up, but the point is that if you have embraced a lie, in the end, there is no way you can win. I mean, you can form the Soviet Union, but eventually it's gonna come down. It cannot sustain itself, and we know that. And I really do believe that we're seeing it. In other words, the radical left has gotten so radical. I mean, who would dream that they would talk about defunding the police? I mean, can we imagine? No, but defunding the police is like. When I heard that, I thought, like, I've never heard anything that crazy. It's so crazy and insane. It's kind of like if you're in an argument with somebody and you push a certain button and they lose it. That's what Trump does. He drives people insane so that they say the thing that an advisor would tell them. And by the way, don't get emotional and don't say this and don't say this. Just keep going. But they have all gotten emotional and they're saying crazy things. And your average American, which is why I do believe Trump won in a landslide, is your average American, says, listen, I don't know, maybe I don't like Trump, maybe I'll get. But that stuff, I don't want any part of that. That's crazy. I would have voted for a Democrat in 1990. But this is crazy stuff. And I think they've pushed themselves out there, so they're marginalizing themselves, and that's gonna affect things, that's gonna affect your average American. And if it weren't for the monopoly that the left has in the media and so on and so forth, this would all be, like, utterly different.
- [25:59]
A
So you said, and I'm paraphrasing, that you have a belief that God will intervene at this moment.
- [26:04]
B
I do.
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A
Can you tell us why or tell us.
- [26:07]
B
Well, it's irrational in the sense that. Actually, I shouldn't say it's irrational. It's super rational. Like, I don't think that it's irrational, but I don't expect people who don't believe in God to put any stock in it. I mean, if you just look at it in the natural. So why do I say that? I say it because there are people. There have been times in my life that I actually have experienced the miraculous. I don't mean like kind of a warm, fuzzy thing, but I mean something else.
- [26:35]
A
I wrote a whole book about it
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B
that's straight up insanely miraculous. And I know innumerable other people that have experienced genuinely astonishing miracles. People that I know well and I trust and so on and so forth. So, like, that's a reality that is utterly foreign to any national discourse. So, like, wherever you're watching TV or anything, that never even enters the equation. And I honestly believe that this is one of those cases where People that I trust and know well have heard from God that Trump will have a second term. And so I. That puts me in a really tough spot because I say, okay, just because somebody says I heard something from God doesn't mean they did hear from God. But if they did, there's no way around it. God doesn't say something, and then it doesn't happen. So if any of these people heard from God, then it has to happen. We could talk about this for days. But the short answer is people that I really respect that know God and have heard from him, and they have a track record, have. Many of them have said that, you know, it's gonna be tough, but God has his hand on Trump. He's gonna have two terms. It's just hard for me to discount that. And I know that sounds insane to people, and I think I'm at a point where I just. I don't care. There's. There's. I. You know, so. But. But maybe to try to sound. Make it sound a little more. More natural and more. More rational, to go back to what I was saying before, like, if you heard that a truly evil crime had been committed, and then people come and they lay out to you why it will never be discovered why the people prosecuting it are incompetent, and on and on and on and on and on, and they lay it out, your response would still be, I don't care. That is so evil. I know that God sees what happened, and that's real. That's not unreal. That is utterly real. God sees what happened, and he has an opinion in this matter. And that's just kind of where I am right now.
- [28:46]
A
So you have to apologize for it.
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B
Oh, no, no, I know, but I mean, I know that there are people listening to whom that would sound just loony. And I think. I get that. I get that, but I think that this is simply too horrific for us to look the other way and say, move on. You can't. You cannot do. Morally, you can't do that. Everything's at stake. America's at stake. And people in 2016 said the same thing. Like, what's the big deal? It's just four years. I hate Trump. And so if Clinton's gon. It's just four years. And I said then, and I say now much more like, no, no, it's not. If it were, I'd be on your side. But I really believe three Supreme Court justices and innumerable other things add up to. If we don't get our people in or if these things don't go this way, we go over the cliff, we don't come back. And that's to me where we are again. It's, everything's at stake. And if everything's at stake, you have to fight.
- [29:45]
A
So it could be that God intervenes. It also could be that he's waiting to see if his own church will intervene too.
- [29:54]
B
People have been praying like crazy. Now again, we live in such a strange country that there are tons of people that don't know anyone who prays. But I'm here to tell you I've been involved in these prayer calls. Thousands and thousands of people are praying fervently that is happening. God hears those prayers. Now what God does, God does. But this has woken up the church. I have seen this and I've actually postulated. I believe that part of the reason God has allowed this is to wake up the church to say, are you going to wake up? Are you going to finally wake up? Are you going to pray? Are you going to care? Are you going to whatever or are you just going to sit on your hands and say, hey, whatever happens happens. It's all going to burn and we'll go to heaven when it's over? Who cares? That's part of what is happening right now. I think that there are tons of people. There's gonna be this Saturday, the. What is it, the 12th? There's gonna be this Jericho March thing in Washington D.C. i'm actually emceeing it. I found out like yesterday that I'm emceeing this event and speaking General Flynn will be there. It's gonna be kind of an amazing thing. But everyone descending on DC for this have been praying fervently. There's a ton of people, tons of people. You might not know these people, but I know some of these people and there's going to be zillions of them in D.C. so yeah, people are praying. The holy remnant of the church has never prayed like this and fasted. People like me and others were fasting. When's the last time we fasted and said, God, you have to do this. There's too much evil. We cannot just shrug it off. You need to speak, Lord. You need to do something. People have been fasting and praying so much that I'm, I mean, I know something's going to happen. Whatever happens, something will happen.
- [31:52]
A
So here's another way 2020 has thrown us for a loop this Christmas season. Look, lots of my go to gifts are non starters this year. I mean for example, how are you supposed to give concert tickets? There's no Lollapalooza. I can't give, you know, tickets to go see the Chicago Bulls because there's no one showing up. And so what am I giving for Christmas? Raycon Wireless earbuds. I am giving people them because they're the best, with seamless Bluetooth pairing and a comfortable noise isolating fit. By the way, Mr. Producer is actually wearing them right now. He's wearing them and he's got the watch. He's got the whole portfolio, and he's doing a great job. The audio is amazing, comparable to what you get from other premium brands, except Raycon start at half the price. Who can beat them? Best of all, these are people that you give the gifts. They can use them for calls or music, or if they don't want to hear you anymore because you're making too much sense politically, they can tune out. And they can listen to the Charlie Kirk show as well with raycon. So look, buyraycon.com Kirk they're being very generous this Christmas season, so they're offering my listeners 15% off. Buyraycon.com Kirk it's buyraycon.com Kirk, where do you think things stand? Just complete, just analytically of where the cases are, where you think things could go?
- [33:06]
B
I am.
- [33:07]
A
What would intervention look like?
- [33:08]
B
Let's put it that way. I am thrilled to be too ignorant of the details to answer that question in any substantive way. There are moments when it's clear to me in their moments from the side. So I don't know. And I think because of that, I realize we kind of do need a miracle, like you said. You know, you knock on the door and some things change and whatever. So I honestly don't know, Charlie. I think that it's. This is the. This is a very dark hour. That's where we stand. It is a very dark hour.
- [33:39]
A
So I want to end with this because I think we're getting the hook.
- [33:41]
B
Yeah. Yeah, we gotta go.
- [33:42]
A
No, no, but this is an important thing.
- [33:43]
B
Yeah.
- [33:43]
A
We have a lot. We have tons of listeners that have never heard the gospel.
- [33:48]
B
Yeah.
- [33:48]
A
And I think a fitting way to end this conversation is you wrote the best book on miracles.
- [33:54]
B
I'm thrilled that you're aware of my book and like it because I'm really fond of the book, but, you know, it didn't sell as much as my Bonhoeffer or anything like that Netflix series on it.
- [34:03]
A
We've talked about this, but that's a different thing. Can you tell Us. The one story, I think it was the cross at the dock.
- [34:11]
B
Oh, that's not in the book. That's on my. That. That was. I put that on my website or in my email. It didn't make it into the book.
- [34:16]
A
So how about this? You tell us the one that moves you the most, because people are listening right now. They're driving, they're working out, and they're like, I like Charlie, but this all bunch of mumbo jumbo.
- [34:25]
B
Yeah.
- [34:26]
A
Eric, tell us a story of a real miracle that you documented that might just.
- [34:31]
B
Okay, I don't want to freak people out, but you know. You know this is not my original head, right? That was a joke. No, I thought, what can I say that will really freak people out?
- [34:42]
A
You're also a comedian.
- [34:43]
B
Yeah, not today, but often. The thing is, I did write a book called Miracles, and in it I just put like two or three of the miracles I experienced. But a book that I will write soon. I have a book coming out in February called Fish out of Water, A Search for the Meaning of Life, which tells a story of my life from birth till my 25th birthday, when I had a very dramatic miracle where God spoke to me in a dream and absolutely overnight completely changed me from somebody who hoped the Bible and God and stuff might be true, but was convinced you absolutely could not know. Like, if you're smart, you would know. I can't know. I knew God spoke to me in this dream and it changed everything. So that book's coming out in February and I will write a sequel to it. And the sequel, what happened after that? I experienced innumerable miracles. The problem with telling the stories of them is that they are. They're often complicated. In other words, it's all about the context. So if you don't know the context, you don't really get it.
- [36:03]
A
The cross one is amazing.
- [36:04]
B
Well, okay, let me. But there's a punchline even to that, that relates to what I just said about how you need the context and how. But okay, the cross one. Suzanne, who's over there? My current wife. What's your name, honey? She and I went to Mobile, Alabama. It was actually Fairhope. Sorry, Fairhope, Alabama. And I was supposed to speak, and I was speaking on Bonhoeffe for like two nights in a row. There was going to be these big crowds and stuff. It was like this big thing. And we had the trip from hell. We go to LaGuardia with our daughter, and she was like, I don't know, 8 or 9 or 10 or something like that. We go to LaGuardia. The flights are delayed, delayed. Can we get on this flight? Can we get like, it was just hellish. Finally we get on a flight to Atlanta. And then we get to Atlanta and our flight to Mobile is canceled. And then they're like, well, maybe we can get you through Pensacola. Like it was like one of these things, like a dream, nightmare of whatever because I, you know, like you've got a wife and a daughter and it's getting late and it's like. And it's just chaos, chaos, chaos. Finally we get on a flight that takes us to Pensacola, which is far away. But this driver was going to pick us up, right? And it was like 1:30am when we landed. The driver picks us up, but we lost my luggage. My luggage is lost. We can't find it. They tell us, well, we'll find it for you and we'll. So we get in the car and we are just dying. Like we just need to sleep.
- [37:41]
A
And.
- [37:41]
B
And the guy in the car proceeds to talk our ears off for the entire 90 minute trip to the hotel. It was just like a nightmare. We get there, it's 3:30, we're trying to fall asleep for some reason. I wake up at seven. We wake up, we can't go back to sleep. So the entire day I'm shattered, so tired that I can't even speak. Like, just like, you know when your brain is. You just can't think, you can't whatever. So of course you just got engaged. Suzanne and I get in such a horrible argument that she's in tears and I, we get back to the hotel, like I had to go and sign like, you know, like 500 books or something like this. The whole thing was just horrible. We did, we missed lunch. So we get to the hotel and I lie down. I realize that I have to go speak tonight and I am in no condition to speak. I've had a horrible argument with my sweet wife and I am just so shattered that I lie down and I pray really desperately, Lord, please, please help me. I can't think straight, much less give a winsome, powerful speech to these people. I'm just broken. Lord, please. I had a vision. Now this is very rare, this doesn't happen to me, but I had a vision. It lasted maybe two seconds, but it was extremely vivid. I'm lying down and praying and suddenly it's like I get this chunk, chunk, chunk, chunk. It's gone. But it was extremely vivid. It was a cross. It was made of wood. It was very specific in other Words. I knew that I've seen an actual cross. It must exist in the world. It wasn't symbolic. It was real. It was made of a certain kind of blond wood, and I knew exactly how big it was. And I saw it for two seconds in my mind's eye. And when I say I saw it in my mind's eye, I mean it, like, came in like Cha Ching and left. And it was not. It was not a product of my brain. It was inserted very clearly. Like, that was, you know. You know, that was just a miracle. Like, the Lord just spoke to me. But what the heck was that? It was the cross. And then it goes away. But it was so vivid. And I thought, okay, if nothing else, I know God just spoke to me, and he showed me a cross, and he just decided to encourage me with this, right? But it was mind blowing. And 30 minutes later, my luggage arrives, and da, da, da. We get dressed up, we go, and I give a great speech. And all of a sudden, the next day, I give another speech. The day after that, there was a dinner party, and he just passed away. Winston Groom, who wrote Forrest Gump, was at the dinner party, but the dinner party was in my honor, okay? And so he was there, and some other people were there, but we got there early. And the woman, our dear friend Fonsi Bullard, she says, oh, let me show you the. They have this curious thing in Fairhope in Mobile Bay. They all have these long docks, and at the end of the dock, they've got, like, a big platform and a barbecue pit and stuff like that. So, like, they spent a lot of time way out there, and she was saying, I hope to have the dinner party out there, but it's too cold because it was December even in Alabama. So. But I told Suzanne and Anna Rose, my daughter, about this vision, and I said, that cross was so vivid. I will bet you like, I will be in Russia someday at the Hermitage, and I will see this because this church, this cross exists. I will see this in my life. I know it like, it was just so miraculously ba boom in my brain. What is that? It's. There it is. There it is. And it's gone. So we're in Fairhope, Alabama, at this dinner party. It hasn't started yet. We're the only ones there. And Fonsi says, oh, why don't we, the three of us, four of us, go walk out. I want to show you this dock, and it's what we have here, Moses. So we walk out there. Now they have a structure on the dock. It's like a two story structure. So you get there and there's all this stuff, and then there's this other level with kind of like a little ladder. So the kids go up there and stuff, right? And Fonsi had. She showed us before we walked out that she goes, oh, I gotta tell you, like, I try to witness to my neighbors. So I have a. She actually had a cross of a Christmas light way out on the dock in the second floor of this thing. So we get out there and she says, or I and my daughter, who was like 10 or something at the time, we decide to climb up the ladder to see what's up there and stuff like that. So we climb up the ladder way out on the water, and her Christmas decoration, the lights in the shape of the cross are up there. And I go up with my daughter, and I get up there and I look at the Christmas lights, and they're wrapped around exactly the cross that I saw 48 hours before in my vision. Like, there was no doubt about it. It was exactly the same size, the same wood. It was it. Except it was covered with these lights. My daughters were in that property before.
- [43:10]
A
Before.
- [43:10]
B
I've never been to her house before. Never been to whatever. I mean, I was so freaked out that I said to my daughter, Anna Rose, and I know my daughter, like, she rolls her eyes at this stuff. She's like, okay, Dad. I said, anarose, listen to me. Listen to me. I want you to. You're here with me now. I want you to understand. I have just experienced an insane miracle. Remember I tell you about that vision I had two nights ago? This is it, Anna Rose. You look at it. I'm looking at it. I want you to do it. Okay. It's one of those things, Charlie, that. And I've had a number of things like this. When it happens, it so blows your mind. You don't know where to turn. Like, you're just like, lord, why are you freaking me out like this? Like, this is too much. How did I see this in the hotel room two days ago? Why did you? Okay, but here's the punchline. So. I am so affirmed God is real. He's just spoken to me. This is just, like, insane. And I've never told this story before, ever, because he was alive. But Winston Groom, when we got off the dock and we walked all the way down this long dock back to the house, and there's Winston Groom, the author of Forrest Gump, and I was so unhinged that as I'm talking to him. I said, winston, I don't want to freak you up. I just got to tell you what just happened to me 10 minutes ago, because this has never happened to me in my life before. And I told him the story just as I told you. And he said, yeah, the mind does funny stuff sometimes. It was like throwing a BB at a brick wall. It was absolutely. He didn't. And we're talking about exceedingly bright man.
- [44:53]
A
But is he an atheist or is
- [44:55]
B
like, yeah, I think so. And I've never told the story publicly because, as I said, he was alive. But this dear man, he's very dear, but he could not see what I perceived. And I'm sure there are people listening to this now also. God has to make it real to you somehow. But I've had a number of experiences like that and it so blows your mind. You're like, look, no wonder people were tortured for their faith because you're like, you could do anything you want to me. Like, I can't unsee that. I can't unknow that. I cannot pretend that God doesn't exist. We can talk about it, but there's no way that I could possibly ever seriously say that that didn't happen.
- [45:36]
A
So now we're waiting for our cross. Metaphorically, yeah.
- [45:40]
B
Well, I mean, this is. I know God is real. He does miracles when he chooses to do miracles. So that's why you cannot, you can't insist on it. But I've experienced enough of them to say that if I pray really hard, I know God hears me. He's in charge of the details. So I apologize for the long winded story, but I will tell you, it blew my mind. And even now telling it, I'm thinking, like, did that really happen? Yeah, it happened. And I've got a dozen other equivalent stories over the course of 30 years. What do you do? It's like you just say, look, I know God is real. I know the Bible is true. I can't. Maybe I can't convince you, but you can't unconvince me at this point.
- [46:23]
A
So, Eric, thanks for joining.
- [46:26]
B
I know you got a dash privilege. God bless you, young man. Congratulations on that recent engagement.
- [46:31]
A
Thank you. Talk to you soon. If you guys want to get involved with Turning Point USA, it's tpusa.com email us your questions freedom. Charliekirk.com make sure you're subscribed to the Charlie Kirk show and I encourage you guys to support us at charliekirk.com support. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. God bless. Speak to you soon.