"Are You Grateful to Be Alive?": More from ASU ft. George Janko

Summary

Podcast Summary: "The Charlie Kirk Show" – Episode: "Are You Grateful to Be Alive?": More from ASU ft. George Janko

Host: Charlie Kirk
Guest: George Janko
Release Date: December 11, 2024
Location: Arizona State University

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Charlie Kirk engages with George Janko and a series of audience members at Arizona State University (ASU) to delve deep into one of the most contentious and emotionally charged topics of our time: abortion. The discussion navigates the complex moral, ethical, and philosophical dimensions surrounding the sanctity of life, individual rights, and the role of religion in shaping societal values.

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1. The Moral and Ethical Dimensions of Abortion

A. Defining Moral Worth and Life

The episode opens with an audience member posing a hypothetical scenario: if someone were to suffer from a curable disease while being a law-abiding, tax-paying citizen with health insurance, should they have the right to be cured? Charlie Kirk affirms, “Yes. But will the disease go away in nine months?” (01:45). This metaphor sets the stage for the ensuing debate on abortion.

B. Abortion as Moral and Ethical Murder

The conversation intensifies when the audience member relates the issue to rape-induced pregnancies. Charlie emphasizes the intrinsic value of human life by stating, “Human beings conceived in rape actually are equal. Human beings of people. […] it is not morally correct to murder a human being, regardless of the circumstance of how that baby was put into this world” (02:40).

C. The Rights Debate: Mother vs. Father

George Janko interjects, shifting the focus to the rights of the father: “If the woman was completely healthy, do you feel like she has the right, if she could healthily give the baby, do you think that she has the right to kill that baby as well?” (10:50). Charlie responds by challenging the notion of bodily autonomy, asserting that the baby is a separate entity: “The baby is actually not her body. It’s attached to her body through an umbilical cord” (12:40).

D. Abortion and Eugenics

The debate takes a chilling turn as Charlie warns against a slippery slope, equating the dehumanization inherent in abortion to the atrocities of Nazi Germany: “Saying it's a woman's choice is the same moral paradigm of how we got to Nazi Germany. It's the same thing. It's dehumanizing language” (16:00).

Key Quotes:

• Charlie Kirk: “We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.” (00:41)
• George Janko: “The most beautiful thing a woman goes through is childbirth. If you asked my mom what was the best day of her life is giving birth, that is your perspective. That is not a true perspective.” (13:38)
• Charlie Kirk: “Life is beautiful and life is worthy of protection.” (16:38)

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2. Philosophical Foundations of Morality

A. Rationality vs. The Soul

The discussion shifts to the nature of humanity and consciousness. An audience member questions the distinction between humans and animals, to which Charlie responds, “We are the speaking beings” (16:42). This leads to a deeper exploration of consciousness and the soul, especially in cases of brain death: “There's something else that is being... that is able to communicate with the outside world beyond reason. Does that make sense?” (07:57).

B. The Role of Actions in Defining Humanity

The audience member argues that moral worth begins with action and experience, questioning whether actions like a fetus kicking or a newborn crying constitute personhood. Charlie counters by highlighting that actions in the womb, such as a fetus responding to stimuli, demonstrate moral worth: “When my daughter was in my wife's womb, around 25 weeks, would recognize my voice and push up against her stomach. Is that an action? Sure, absolutely.” (08:59)

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3. The Interplay of Religion and Secular Morality

A. Necessity of Religion for Moral Society

A significant portion of the debate revolves around whether a society can maintain moral virtues without religious foundations. A libertarian audience member challenges Charlie, stating, “A lot of people are up here talking about where they're voting and the polling of religion... Is it plausible to be kind, peace filled, happy and everything without religion in my life?” (23:35).

Charlie argues that Western values, often perceived as secular, are inherently rooted in Christian ideals. He cites Tom Holland’s Dominion to support the claim that many moral standards are derived from Christianity: “All of the things you consider to be common sense is an inheritance from Christianity.” (26:45).

B. Counterarguments and Cultural Practices

The libertarian participant counters by highlighting moral practices in non-Christian cultures, such as child abandonment in African countries, explaining it as cultural norms rather than religious dictates. However, Charlie maintains that without a transcendent moral order, societies lack objective morality: “My belief is that you cannot have a free and civil society without a culture that is either inherited or believes in the eternal being or a transcendent moral order.” (26:10).

Key Quotes:

• Libertarian Speaker: “I have an issue with any of the religions being correct. Is it plausible to be kind, peace filled, happy and everything without religion in my life?” (23:35)
• Charlie Kirk: “Look up to the question is, what is that? And we believe and we know. Our argument is that that has been passed down through generations. That originated as Christian ideals.” (26:16)

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4. Addressing Broader Social Issues

A. Birth Control vs. Abortion

The conversation touches on the effectiveness and focus of societal discussions on birth control as opposed to abortion. The libertarian audience member posits, “Why are men running around impregnating women with reckless abandon? Why aren't we talking about that instead of abortion?” (27:03). Charlie acknowledges the issue but points out the failure of contraception outreach by asking, “We have abundant contraceptive use and yet we have more abortions than ever.” (27:37).

B. Gender and Identity

Further, the debate veers into the contentious realm of gender identity. The audience member questions the definition of a woman, leading Charlie to challenge the subjective nature of gender identity: “How can one independently know they're looking at a woman? By what definition?” (16:55). The libertarian speaker defends gender fluidity, but Charlie draws parallels to cultural and moral standards, emphasizing objective definitions: “At some point there will be a governing moral philosophy. There is no neutrality in morality.” (33:11).

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5. Personal Appeals and Redemptive Messages

Throughout the episode, George Janko interjects with heartfelt appeals, urging compassion and understanding towards those struggling with their views on abortion. He emphasizes the importance of offering love and peace: “The first step right now is to give you love and peace and then you'll be able to understand where we're coming from.” (19:11).

An emotional plea follows from another audience member who identifies as an atheist, sharing personal struggles and seeking understanding: “I care very deeply about women's rights and LGBTQ rights, which I believe. I just hope and pray that those of us listening to this message today go to like, go to his podcast.” (21:20).

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6. Conclusion and Final Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Charlie Kirk reiterates the importance of objective morality and the protection of all human life, regardless of circumstances: “When it comes to murder, when it comes to theft, when it comes there is no neutral space.” (33:03). He calls for unity and moral clarity in the face of divisive issues, urging listeners to uphold the sanctity of life as a fundamental value.

Final Thoughts: The episode presents a robust defense of the pro-life stance, intertwining ethical reasoning with philosophical and theological arguments. Charlie Kirk and George Janko navigate challenging questions with a steadfast commitment to their principles, advocating for the protection of all human life and the foundational role of religion in shaping moral society.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Charlie Kirk:

  • “[00:27] Charlie Kirk's running the White House.”
  • “[02:40] Human beings conceived in rape actually are equal. Human beings of people. […] it is not morally correct to murder a human being, regardless of the circumstance of how that baby was put into this world.”
  • “[07:57] There's something else that is being... that is able to communicate with the outside world beyond reason.”
  • “[16:00] Saying it's a woman's choice is the same moral paradigm of how we got to Nazi Germany. It's the same thing. It's dehumanizing language.”
  • “[26:45] All of the things you consider to be common sense is an inheritance from Christianity.”
  • “[33:03] When it comes to murder, when it comes to theft, when it comes there is no neutral space.”

• George Janko:

  • “[00:31] Charlie is an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country.”
  • “[13:38] The most beautiful thing a woman goes through is childbirth.”
  • “[19:11] And I believe you when you said that you don't have any peace in your heart right now.”

• Audience Members:

  • “[01:18] Hello, Charlie. Yeah, I'm very looking forward to being here.”
  • “[23:35] I have an issue with any of the religions being correct.”
  • “[21:20] Somebody's willing to take his life and put their life into Jesus Christ.”

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Conclusion

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show serves as a fervent exploration of the moral imperatives surrounding the issue of abortion, underpinned by philosophical and religious convictions. Through rigorous debate and personal testimonies, Charlie Kirk and George Janko advocate for the protection of all human life, challenging listeners to reconsider the ethical foundations of their beliefs and societal norms.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody. Today we have more college conversations for you from Arizona State University with George Janko. Become a member today. Members.charliekirk.com members.charliekirk dot com and come to America Fest. That's AmFest.com AmFest.com that is AmFest.com AmFest. Com Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus. I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[Libertarian Speaker]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House.

[Charlie Kirk]

Folks, I want to thank.

[George Janko]

Charlie is an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold investments@noblegold investments.com that is noblegold investments.com. it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegold investments.com.

[Audience Member 1]

Hello, Charlie. Yeah, I'm very looking forward to being here. So I just wanted to ask a question. It's based on a hypothetical if that's all right. So let's say hypothetically you had some kind of disease and this disease could be very easily cured and you have health insurance, you're a tax paying citizen, you do everything right. Surely it's within your right to get that disease cured. Can I just.

[Charlie Kirk]

Sorry.

[Audience Member 1]

Can you just say yes, just for the sake of clarity?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes. But will the disease go away in nine months?

[Audience Member 1]

That's no question. Just if you had a sickness.

[Charlie Kirk]

Trying to play one step ahead of where you're trying to take this, but yes, of course. Yeah.

[George Janko]

Are you comparing a disease to a pregnant woman?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I'm seeing. I've heard this before, but I'm not sure I'm gonna give you the benefit of that.

[Audience Member 1]

Okay. Okay. And you'd probably agree that if a child had a disease, it would be within our rights to try and assist them. We don't want their children. Yeah, exactly. So can you explain to me why a child who has been raped and is pregnant does not deserve an abortion?

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, yeah. Okay. So. Well, first and foremost, I have two ultrasounds. One of the ultrasounds is a baby that was conceived in rape. The other ultrasound is a baby that is from a loving relationship. Can you tell me which one is which?

[Audience Member 1]

I go. To be fully honest, I do not know. Please inform me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, you can't, because they're both human beings. There's actually someone in this audience here that was conceived in rape. Can you tell me which one it is?

[George Janko]

I appreciate that you're actually looking around.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, because you don't know. Because human beings conceived in rape actually are equal. Human beings of people. Not. The point being is that it is not morally correct to murder a human being, regardless of the circumstance of how that baby was put into this world, despite how evil and horrific that it is.

[Audience Member 1]

Okay. I just also want to continue that. I mean this in full sincerity. I'm not making fun of anyone. I'm a big advocate of the second amendment. I genuinely think that the right to bear arms is brilliant because if someone invades your home, if someone is threatening your wife, surely you would, you would want to, surely you'd want to vanquish them in order to protect your family. Is that fair?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. But a baby is not an invader of your home.

[Audience Member 1]

Even, even for a 12 year old who will die in childbirth.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's, that's, that's a different question. So the question is, remember my answer, which you're referencing a jubilee video, was.

[Audience Member 1]

That if I've seen that video.

[Charlie Kirk]

But yes, okay, but it's, well, it's been, well, let's just say documented that my view on it, if, if the woman or the. Or the 12 year old were to live, then the baby should be delivered. Now, mind you, that abortion is never medically necessary to save a mother's life, period. However, septagectomies are medically necessary, which are medical procedures to perform on a woman or a baby. If the amniotic sacrifice and the baby's head gets full of fluid. Right. So I'm just trying to understand if a 12 year old's life is not in danger, you should try to save all lives involved. That's the position is that you shouldn't try to eliminate the unborn baby because that's still murder. And then let me ask you another question. In life, is it ever okay to do something evil after an evil?

[Audience Member 1]

I would say no. I would say that I'm a sort of. I believe in the work of John Locke. I believe that all humans are born good. And so I believe that. You know, if you've read the book the Orestia, it's this Greek story where violence necessitates. Violence necessitates violence fighting and fighting Don't Lead us to anything. And do you know how that book ends? It ends with Athena, goddess of wisdom, bringing democracy to the people, letting every voice be heard. That's pretty wonderful.

[Charlie Kirk]

Will you say we totally agree. So therefore an evil, horrendous, unspeakable act happens of somebody getting raped, which is very rare, resulting in pregnancy, therefore continuing that cycle of evil is not the right morally thing. Right moral thing to do.

[Audience Member 1]

Apply that now to the self defense argument. Someone breaks into your house, starts beating up your son, are you not going to shoot them?

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. It's not the same thing. Let me give you another argument, which is that if in that instance there was an innocent life. Let me say this. If someone broke into my house and all of a sudden that person had a baby strapped to their chest, I wouldn't shoot them. Would you?

[Audience Member 1]

No, because I think there's a certain utilitarian argument.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, then we're agreeing.

[Audience Member 1]

But you said the word baby, not the word feces.

[Charlie Kirk]

What is the moral difference?

[Audience Member 1]

Are you familiar with the IUD contraception and how it can eliminate an embryo after concept?

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you mean the copper IUD or you mean a traditional IUD? There's two types of IUDs.

[Audience Member 1]

The one that was brought up to you in the other Dean Winters video. The one I did see.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. So again, that was probably not so copper. It kills almost all sperm. There is an iud, but an IUD is not an abortifacient.

[Audience Member 1]

So you're pro contraception?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, personally, not really, but in society, of course, yes. I mean, again, these are personal decision versus societal decisions. But I guess you said the question is of a fetus and a baby. What is the moral difference between the two?

[Audience Member 1]

I'd also. I'm so sorry for going on tangent, but I want to ask you, philosophy, sorry, philosophically, what separates you, the man, Charlie Kirk, from the animals?

[Charlie Kirk]

We are the speaking beings.

[Audience Member 1]

Exactly. I could not agree more.

[Charlie Kirk]

I know I'm Aristotelian at my core.

[Audience Member 1]

Wonderful. So am I. Oh, you're a robot.

[Charlie Kirk]

However, just be. If a being cannot speak, that does not mean they're no longer human.

[Audience Member 1]

Exactly. Because I was actually going to clarify. Would you more say it's more rationality or some might even say experience?

[Charlie Kirk]

It's more than that, though. I believe that there's a deeper level though, that the soul is the outgrowth of your rationality.

[Audience Member 1]

But that has to be done practically, if I'm. If I'm right.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, for example, this is actually flummoxing brain scientists right now we don't know where consciousness is housed in. Very true, very true. And so you know your stuff. We don't know where consciousness is. And it's driving neuroscientists crazy when someone is considered brain dead. Yes, the brain. It's an amazing story. An 11 year old got in a terrific auto accident, was called brain dead, and all of a sudden, a year later she has a period and you're like, wait, I thought she's brain dead. When we cut into someone who's brain dead in their arm, their adrenaline increases. Someone who's brain dead. If a loved one starts and go up to them and talk to them, their heart rate increases. So even though there might not be brain waves, there's something else that is being, that is able to communicate with the outside world beyond reason. Does that make sense?

[Audience Member 1]

Sure.

[Charlie Kirk]

And I think it's a mystery of what that is. I think it's the soul.

[Audience Member 1]

But I would say it's action, wouldn't you? It's action and experience.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no.

[Audience Member 1]

Why not?

[Charlie Kirk]

It's more than that. Well, let me think deeper. About what? That, what we mean by that. Go further.

[Audience Member 1]

I mean that I truly don't believe a person is a person until they commit an action, until they have thoughts.

[Charlie Kirk]

Because you said. But.

[George Janko]

Isn't growing in the womb in action?

[Audience Member 1]

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.

[George Janko]

Isn't growing in the womb in action?

[Audience Member 1]

No, but.

[Charlie Kirk]

So let me ask a question. What action did my son have when he was born?

[Audience Member 1]

A minute old, he starts crying.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so you consider that an action? So, so let me ask a question. When my son was 12 weeks old, he was kicking in his mother's, My wife's womb. Is that an action?

[George Janko]

Sure, that's what I just said.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[Audience Member 1]

Okay. Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[George Janko]

But you mentally got me. I was like, oh, no, no.

[Audience Member 1]

But so you know, I'm holding my hand.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let me go a step further. When my daughter was in my wife's womb, around 25 weeks, would recognize my voice and push up against her stomach. Is that an action?

[Audience Member 1]

Sure, absolutely.

[Charlie Kirk]

So therefore worthy of moral protection.

[Audience Member 1]

But if the mother's life is at.

[Charlie Kirk]

Risk, which is, again, let's be very clear, that is so incredibly rare. An abortion is never medically necessary to save a mother's life. There are other procedures outside of abortion that can save the mother's life. For example, if you have, if you're 26 weeks pregnant and your uterine wall ruptures, which is a serious thing, they say abortion is the only solution. No, you can have the baby delivered by C section, which is cesarean section, which is not an abortion. Folks, your halls are decked with holly, and the sound of Andy Williams on the radio tells us to be of good cheer. But often the joy of the season is lost in the hustle and bustle. That's why my friends at Hillsdale College produced a free online course on Charles Dickens, a Christmas Miracle. You're likely familiar with the story of old miser Ebenezer Scrooge and his three ghostly visitors. Scrooge famously refuses to be charitable in order to decrease the surplus population. But there's more to Scrooge, which is why we cheer for him year after year. In this free online course, you'll learn how Scrooge's frightening and enlightening encounters reveal the joy of Christmas. You can Register [e-mail] that is charlieforhillsdale.com Charlieforhillsdale.com My friends, do treat yourself to hill. New free online course on A Christmas Carol. Sign up today by visiting charlie4hillsdale.com that's charlie for hillsdale.com and on behalf of my friends at Hillsdale College, have a Merry Christmas.

[George Janko]

May I ask you a question, if you don't mind?

[Audience Member 1]

Of course. Yes.

[George Janko]

Let's put this really, really dark thought away. Right. The rape is a terrible thing to be around, and it's a tough conversation.

[Audience Member 1]

To have, but it does happen. I am sorry, but yes, you're right, Absolutely.

[George Janko]

But let's just put that right here for a second. But if the woman was completely healthy, do you feel like she has the right, if she could healthily give the baby, do you think that she has the right to kill that baby as well?

[Audience Member 1]

That is the woman's choice. I'm a man. I cannot choose for her.

[George Janko]

Now, can I ask you something? If, God forbid, you loved a woman and she was pregnant with your child, and you wanted this child with all of your heart, you dreamt about this child. And she has every right to walk into this building and remove your son away from you. You don't find that hurtful?

[Audience Member 1]

Not particularly, no. Because it's her decision.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. But again, it's your child. I just want to get back.

[Audience Member 1]

Not till it's born.

[Charlie Kirk]

So. But you said action determines moral worth. At what point does it become a human being after it exits the womb? So? So, but again, all the actions in the womb, the kicking of all that, that. That's still not human, even though it's human DNA, human experience, human heartbeat, human brain waves.

[Audience Member 1]

There's this Lovely lady who wants to speak real quick.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, sure.

[Audience Member 2]

I just have a question for you.

[Mila]

You said it's not your child until it's born. Does that mean you think it could be someone else's while it's in womb.

[Audience Member 2]

And then it changes when it's born?

[Audience Member 1]

I do not wish to antagonize you, but I don't see how that's relevant.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm so sorry, but I just let me stay focused on him, if that's okay. I just want to. I just want to make sure we're morally clear though in order for this, for your line of thinking to be correct. You say you're a man, you don't have a right to say over it. Why does the mom have a right to say over the baby if it's not her DNA? Because it's. Sorry, it happens to be in her.

[Audience Member 1]

Because. No, because it is her body.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it's another body in her body.

[Audience Member 1]

No, it's her body.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, no, the baby's different DNA though, so it's actually not her body. Because your DNA was not your mom's DNA. It's separate deoxyribonucleic acid. It's not a clone of the mom, it's an offspring of the mom.

[Audience Member 1]

Again, I don't see that. I don't see. I don't know.

[Charlie Kirk]

But you keep on saying it's her body. The baby is actually not her body. It's attached to her body through an umbilical cord.

[Audience Member 1]

So, okay, so if the two entities are separate, then I can chew a pregnant woman and the baby will be fine.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, no one is temporarily dependent on the other. No different, no different than my one year old right now. If you came and killed all of us in our house, my baby would starve to death after two days and no one would feed it. So how is that morally different? So why should 1 year olds get moral protection and 10 week olds should not?

[Audience Member 1]

Because a 1 year old can't kill its own mother. And do you know.

[George Janko]

But remember, take that out of the equation. Say the mom's fine.

[Audience Member 1]

No, I'm not taking. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but like this, this the truth. Like how many times painful birth is one of the women scream and there and sweat and there is blood everywhere during a birth. It is not a nice thing from my perspective.

[George Janko]

It seems to me that Satan has captivated your heart to. The most beautiful thing a woman goes through is childbirth. If you asked my mom what was the best day of her life is giving birth. That is your perspective. That is not a true perspective.

[Audience Member 1]

I think it is up to the woman whether childbirth is a good thing. Because I'm not the one giving birth.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right. Again. But just to close this out, we'll keep going in circles. The moral dimension that you and Pro abort supply to the womb cannot be applied to any other realm of life. So is it okay for a mother to kill her one week old? Of course not. We would say.

[Audience Member 1]

Didn't you just say that this can't be applied to other aspects of life. But I begun this argument by saying if you needed a cure for something and a doctor denied it to you, that would be an immoral action. You agreed with me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, but obliterating a life is not a cure.

[George Janko]

And also, you said if she was fine. It's fine.

[Audience Member 1]

Not really, like.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, last question. Are you thankful your mom did not abort you?

[Audience Member 1]

No. Particularly.

[Charlie Kirk]

You wouldn't be alive.

[George Janko]

Can I ask you a question?

[Audience Member 1]

Of course. Please.

[George Janko]

Are you happy? Do you have peace in your heart?

[Audience Member 1]

No, I don't.

[George Janko]

Okay. And I feel for you, bro. I think the first step right now is to give you love and peace and then you'll be able to understand where we're coming from. Because I love you, bro. And I'm so happy.

[Audience Member 1]

Thank you. I love you too. Yeah. I'm sorry for a while, but can I close with one thing? Surely you guys think that the best thing for a child is to be raised in a loving home.

[George Janko]

Yeah. Amen.

[Audience Member 1]

So we.

[Charlie Kirk]

Sorry. Well, for the best things for a child is to give it life.

[Audience Member 1]

So you'd be okay with a child being in an abusive home where it gets hit every night?

[Charlie Kirk]

Not. Okay, but hold on a second. Is life or death. We choose life. You do not give the excuse to the circumstances, a reason to murder the being. Period. End story.

[Audience Member 1]

So to clarify, you're okay with a child growing up in abusive home?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I'm not okay with it. I'm saying that if you were given a binary. If you were to say, charlie, a kid is going to grow up in a tough environment. Do you want to murder it now? Answer is no. And I'll ask the same question I asked earlier. If you had a baby or do you think it should be legal? If I got the doctor calls, hey, your son's going to have down syndrome. Should I be able to have an abortion based on that information?

[Audience Member 1]

It's the woman's choice.

[Charlie Kirk]

I think that's eugenics. I think it's Eugenics. If all of a sudden you're terminating a being based on whether or not it doesn't have an IQ as high.

[Audience Member 1]

As yours, that's conjecture. That same argument could be applied to a fetus that's a subject of rape. Like it's the woman's choice, regardless.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I know. You're correct. Right, Saying it's a woman's choice. No, you're right, in the sense saying the woman's choice is the same moral paradigm of how we got to Nazi Germany. It's the same thing. It's dehumanizing language. It's that they're not human, they're not worthy of protection. It's just someone's choice. It doesn't matter if they're eliminated. They were going to have a bad life anyway. Let's just get rid of them. Where we have to make moral arguments is, even if it's difficult, hard, painful, and there's a struggle, life is beautiful and life is worthy of protection.

[Audience Member 1]

Even in an abusive home?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes. Even in tough environments. That's not an excuse for that at all.

[George Janko]

Can I ask you something? Were you in an abusive home?

[Audience Member 1]

No. I was in a very loving home, but I care very deeply about women's rights and LGBTQ rights, which I believe.

[Charlie Kirk]

What is a woman?

[Audience Member 1]

I failed to see the questions relevant.

[Charlie Kirk]

You said you care about women's rights. I want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. What is a woman?

[Audience Member 1]

A person who. A person who identifies as a woman.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right, but so that. One sec. That's not a definition. That's like saying a coffee cup is something that looks like a coffee cup. You have to give me an objective definition of a woman.

[Audience Member 1]

No, that's the. That's the first pre. Step. Aristotle. A couch is a couch. We get to the first precept. You eventually ask, what is this? What is this? What is this? Fundamentally, your only answer can be this is this, or are you suggesting two plus two equals five?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, no, it's. I'm trying to say, how can one independently know they're looking at a woman? By what definition?

[Audience Member 1]

You ask them like a normal person.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right, but what is the definition of that? Meaning? For example, a woman is an adult human female with excess chromosomes. That is an objective definition of what a woman is. What?

[Audience Member 1]

Words are multiple definitions. So I'll agree with you.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm sorry, what?

[Audience Member 1]

I said words have multiple definitions. So I will agree with you. Someone just said, no, they don't. The word set has about eight different definitions to what it can Mean, okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

But just to be clear, the. If anybody can be a woman, or you say that as a woman, then therefore, can anybody be. Can I become a black person if I want to?

[Audience Member 1]

We're talking about gender, not race.

[Charlie Kirk]

But. Well, hold on. The guy says, no, but hold on. It's my truth. If I want to be a black person, why can't I be.

[Audience Member 1]

We're talking about gender, not race.

[Charlie Kirk]

What's the difference?

[Audience Member 1]

But this is a red herring fallacy. We're talking about something entirely different.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it's not.

[Audience Member 1]

Okay, yes, it is.

[Charlie Kirk]

Got it. So what is the difference between gender and species? If I want to be a giraffe, can I be a giraffe? Because that's actually one of. Just so you know, that's one of the classified genders now, is that I am two spirit.

[Audience Member 1]

I think America is beautiful because it's a land of the free. It's where you choose who you want to be. So if you. You, if you want to be that. It literally does not affect me. Go ahead. I. I could not care less.

[George Janko]

They will affect you. It won't affect you right now. But the same way that you want to affect that baby in the womb, because of the way you believe it will grow and affect other homes. I think right now, just from speaking to you, dude, I think that you. You have the heart to stand up for what's right.

[Audience Member 1]

Absolutely.

[George Janko]

And I believe you. And I believe you when you said that you don't have any peace in your heart right now. I believe you. So what I'm saying is everybody here who's like, oh, he got him. He got him. Yeah. But remember, all of you guys who believe in Jesus stand here and mock, but you guys were equally, at one point, lacking wisdom before God gave it to you guys, please don't, as a Christian, break and throw a stone. That's not how we should be representing Jesus.

[Audience Member 1]

I very. I very much agree. I think arguing and shouting and screaming and just. And blabber is getting us nowhere. I think. I think intellectual conversation is getting us. So thank you dearly for what you just.

[George Janko]

But from my perspective right here, right now, I will stand up for the baby that cannot speak for itself, because my God told me so. What I want to do, just closing this chapter out is on the way out. I really do. All of the people that chanted and booed, remember, your God is watching you pray for this gentleman because he just admitted to you he's with no peace. Give this man peace on the way out. Show him what Christians do please guys, thank you so much.

[Audience Member 1]

Charlie Mayer shake your hand.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Audience Member 2]

Charlie and George first of all, George, I want to say what you're doing, like with your podcast is so influential not only for, like, me, but I see it for like all around the world and for all of us conservatives that are here right now, the person standing right in front of us was living in a worldly view of life and he changed his life for Jesus. And we have a lot of us here on campus at Arizona State right now that call themselves Christians yet live in the way of the world. And there's something about being a Christian where you make space for him, you become like him, then you live like him. And when we have like people coming up here and being vulnerable and sharing it and we're like spearing out, hey, we should love them, they're coming here with a vulnerable heart to like share what they're feeling. And the Constitution was built upon the founding fathers that were like 55 out of 56 were like Christian, right? And so I just hope and pray that those of us listening to this message today go to like, go to his podcast. Listen to it with like, what he was talking about with Bryce Crawford. That was amazing. I mean, his testimony is like truly influential. Like, it's insane.

[George Janko]

Thank you.

[Audience Member 2]

Somebody's willing to take his life and put their life into Jesus Christ to deny ourselves. But remember that this. I'm scared. Like, I'M scared that after this, if we do lose this, like, what's next for us? You know what I mean? As a country? Because do we even really have swing states at that point? Like, where do we fall under as a country?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, it's a similar question as before. Be really dark. So we got to win. It's gonna. It's gonna get really dark. We might not have a country.

[Audience Member 2]

And Charlie, like, say we win, right? Like, are you gonna be behind the Republican Party or are you gonna be. I'm like DeSantis. Or you can be on a Vivek. Like, how does this work?

[Charlie Kirk]

I have no idea. I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep on running Turning Point USA and Turning Point Action.

[Audience Member 2]

And I know he asked you this before. Like, would you ever consider a. Nope. Okay. I didn't think you would.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm not running for anything, but other.

[Audience Member 2]

Than that, guys, like, I just pray that, like, one of us. Not even one, that us as a nation, us as a country, would, like, fall under the grace of God and that Jesus would have mercy for all of our hearts, even the ones that are hurting and searching, that you would be found today. And thank you that you put your faith into him, especially those like, frack, whatever it is, guys, I used to live that life. I can't say I'm blameless. I'm certainly not. But I can say there's a better way. And just because it might be scary, because the world or your brothers in your fraternity or your parents might see differently, you're going to have a savior and a father that's going to call you by name, and that's going to hold your hand the whole way through. So if you need this next step, just take a. Like, a leap of faith today and go the next mile.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you, man.

[Audience Member 2]

Amen.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right. Disagreements, guys.

[George Janko]

Thank you, bro.

[Charlie Kirk]

You're a disagreement?

[Audience Member 1]

Yes.

[Libertarian Speaker]

First of all, what's going on, Charlie? I'm a Libertarian, so I sit very moderate, and I do lean more towards the conservative deals. But a lot of the people that are up here talking about where they're voting and the polling of religion. You said earlier that I have to have religion in my life, to be peaceful, to be kind. And a lot of other things. A lot of other people said that I'm agnostic. I don't necessarily believe that. The way that Christians or any of the religions. And that's the big problem that I have right there is there's millions of religions, and every one of them are pounding on their chest that they're the correct religion. So I have an issue with any of the religions being correct. Is it plausible to be kind, peace filled, happy and everything without religion in my life? That's my first question.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, but it's not possible to know what kind is without religion.

[Libertarian Speaker]

Tell me that. I disagree with that.

[Charlie Kirk]

What is good?

[Libertarian Speaker]

Well, good is everything. For example, I teach my children 100% to be considerate of other people at all times.

[Charlie Kirk]

For sure. How do you know that's good?

[Libertarian Speaker]

I'm intelligent, I have a brain. I don't need ten commandments to tell me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Where did you learn that?

[Libertarian Speaker]

I just learned it from people, probably before me. I saw them do it. But it has nothing to do with them being Christian.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, hold on. So let me tell you. In several African countries that are not Christian there, and you guys can go on mission trips and see it for yourself, there would be unwanted children.

[Libertarian Speaker]

Sure.

[Charlie Kirk]

And they'll just leave babies by the fire and let them die.

[Libertarian Speaker]

It's not because they're not religious though.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm sorry, but for them that's normal cultural practice.

[Libertarian Speaker]

Sure.

[Charlie Kirk]

No one taught them otherwise. Understood.

[Audience Member 1]

So, but how's that?

[Libertarian Speaker]

What is that? How does that tail into religion?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, but it's just normal for them. Okay, but then why is it that you think something's good and they don't? What's the difference?

[Libertarian Speaker]

I told you, I've been taught. I'm an intellect.

[Charlie Kirk]

Exactly. Been taught by Christians?

[Libertarian Speaker]

No, just by other people. Nobody in my family is religious.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. No, no, you live in it. You live in a remnant of a Christian country that inherited that.

[Libertarian Speaker]

That I don't disagree with.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, no, but what I'm saying is what you think is not Christian is Western values that have trickled down through hundreds of years that you think is common sense. That actually is a Christian tradition.

[Libertarian Speaker]

Sure, but is it possible that those can just be. Without religion? Is it possible as a society that we show up in kindness and peace?

[Charlie Kirk]

Show me an example.

[Libertarian Speaker]

I'm not saying it's happened. I'm saying is it plausible?

[Charlie Kirk]

My belief is that you cannot have a free and civil society without a culture that is either inherited or believes in the eternal being or a transcendent moral order. It cannot exist.

[Libertarian Speaker]

Well, that I might agree with too, because again, I said I'm agnostic, not atheist. I do believe something did it, for sure.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, that's good. So again, this is less about, you know, Christianity, Buddhism, whatever. It's more about the idea that you have to submit that there's some truth and some Appeal to goodness. Sure. That we look up to the question is, what is that? And we believe and we know. Our argument is that that has been passed down through generations. That originated as Christian ideals. Love your neighbor as yourself. Don't steal stuff just because you're bigger than them. Have respect for universal human equality. There is a book I want you.

[Libertarian Speaker]

To make sense to me.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's not though. Actually. There's a book by an agnostic by the name of Tom Holland.

[Libertarian Speaker]

Love to read it.

[Charlie Kirk]

And it's called Dominion, where he's an agnostic and he says you guys in the west have no idea that all of the things you consider to be common sense is an inheritance from Christianity.

[Libertarian Speaker]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

And I encourage you to read it.

[Libertarian Speaker]

I would love that. I had two questions. We talk about abortion here. We talk about pro life and people, but why are we not talking about birth control? In other words, birth control is the problem, not the abortion after. Why are there men running around impregnating women with reckless abandon? Why aren't we talking about that instead of abortion? Why aren't we teaching men to quit impregnating women?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, two things. First of all, oh my God, me.

[Libertarian Speaker]

It's what's happening.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on a second. We have. It actually hasn't worked.

[Libertarian Speaker]

So why don't we talk about that though, again?

[Charlie Kirk]

First of all, because abortion has become a form of birth control. Right.

[Libertarian Speaker]

And it's not. Let's be honest.

[Charlie Kirk]

I agree.

[Libertarian Speaker]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, but I'm saying that's bad. But number two, there's something missing. Where I would imagine here at Arizona State University, you guys can get free contraceptives. Am I wrong? Yes.

[Libertarian Speaker]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. So we have abundant contraceptive use and yet we have more abortions than ever. So maybe it's a problem of behavior and we should tell people, save yourself until marriage. Which is an unpopular.

[Libertarian Speaker]

That's one.

[Charlie Kirk]

And it's a 100% guaranteed way to avoid such a circumstance absent a terrible rape or something.

[Libertarian Speaker]

All right, that's all my questions.

[George Janko]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Mila]

Okay, is this on? All right, I just want to start. My name is Mila and I self identify as an atheist. And I will admit I don't have the answers to everything. So I'm just here with an open mind, just trying to figure out, let's go.

[George Janko]

Great mindset.

[Mila]

What's going on in this world. But the first question I had for you guys was why do you believe that the Christian religion takes priority over other religions in this country when it comes to moral matters such as abortion or immigration?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, first of all, we don't necessarily. We don't argue from that context. We are using reason. We believe our reason is informed by revelation because this was founded as a Christian country and it is the greatest country ever because of those ideals.

[George Janko]

Is there any ideas that bother you?

[Mila]

Oh, yeah, actually, the Christian ideals around abortion because I personally have issues with other religions like medical rules, for example. I think one that I could mention might be I believe Jehovah's Witness does not allow blood transfusions. And I wonder why Christian beliefs should be made rules when if we made a Jehovah Witness medical belief a rule, people would be outraged.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, but we're not arguing it even from a Christian standpoint. When I sat here with the young man from Britain, I used reason and rationality. And you agree murder should be wrong.

[Mila]

I would agree with that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. But if we believe murder should be wrong, then murder should be wrong for babies in the womb.

[Mila]

Well, I do wonder, based on a medical standpoint, life can be has a lot of gray areas, right? Like if someone is in a vegetative state, they are technically alive. Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

But did you hear me address that earlier or not?

[Mila]

I did hear you, but I just wonder, does life take priority over quality every single time?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes. If not, you're a eugenicist. So for example, if I told you we can kill 30 million poor Americans right now and our life will get better, is it right to kill them?

[Mila]

No, I don't think that would be accurate. However, I have also heard a different hypothetical and I would like your Opinion on that one, actually. If there was a burning building and in that building there is one alive, one year old child.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I've answered this many times. And then there's frozen embryos.

[Mila]

And there's frozen embryos. Yeah, well, I just, me personally, I've always wondered, not wondered, assume that a child is a more valuable life because they have actual consciousness.

[Charlie Kirk]

Only if you can guarantee the hypothetical is only applicable if you can guarantee the human embryos would then go to the next stage. Stage of development. But they're all human lives. So you believe that they're equally human lives.

[Mila]

Yes, they're all equally human lives. Okay, then I, I want to get.

[Charlie Kirk]

To the next question though. But just, but just, yeah, but let just last, I just want one last question. Charlie, I got a good one. You know, last quote, just last question for her and I'll try to do two or three more, which I think, I think is important, which is should it be illegal if a couple finds out that they're having a baby girl and they want a baby boy? Should it be illegal to have an abortion based on that information?

[Mila]

Well, how would you know? That was their reasoning.

[George Janko]

We're saying that's the reasoning opening up.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's called sex. Selective abortion. Happens all the time.

[Mila]

No, like I, I'm not saying I don't understand what you're saying. I'm just saying there's many cultural reasons that something happens and whether or not we agree with it isn't our decision.

[Charlie Kirk]

Because if it's child sacrifice wrong.

[Mila]

Is child sacrifice wrong? Well, that's not my culture, so I would say no. But my culture isn't the only culture.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, no. Is child sacrifice objectively wrong?

[Mila]

I would say so, yeah, I would agree.

[George Janko]

So if you saw a bunch of cultures that were growing in America and they're like land of the free, we could do it. Conceive and kill. Conceive and kill. You're okay with this?

[Mila]

No, because the baby has to be born for a child sacrifice to happen.

[George Janko]

Okay, fair, fair. But say they are just, you know, in your heart, they're only getting her pregnant so they could kill it at nine months, eight months, six months.

[Mila]

Well, that would be illegal because there is laws against that. But at the same time, that's not my decision to make about other people's cultures. There's also cultures that are vegan and they believe that killing animals.

[Charlie Kirk]

I got to get the next question, but you're falling for the fallacy of that. It's. I'm just going to let everyone decide. At some point there will be a governing moral philosophy. There is no neutrality in morality. It does not exist. At some point you need to have more morality. When it comes to murder, when it comes to theft, when it comes there is no neutral space. You might have a neutral attitude as a human being, but society and civilization needs objective morality. Thank you. I want to get to a couple more questions before I wrap up.

[Mila]

Thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you. Thanks so much for listening everybody. Email us. As always, freedomarlykirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless.

[George Janko]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.