Before You Decide On the Big Beautiful Bill, Listen To This

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show – "Before You Decide On the Big Beautiful Bill, Listen To This"

Episode Release Date: June 5, 2025

Hosts and Guests:

• Host: Charlie Kirk
• Guests: Stephen Miller, Jim Banks, Ron Johnson

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Introduction to the Big Beautiful Bill

Timestamp [00:00]:
Charlie Kirk opens the show by introducing Stephen Miller and Senator Jim Banks to discuss the "Big Beautiful Bill." He emphasizes the importance of this comprehensive legislative package, aimed at addressing key conservative priorities such as immigration reform and tax cuts.

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Overview and Significance of the Bill

Timestamp [03:10]:
Jim Banks provides a historical context for the bill, highlighting its significance as a culmination of a decade-long effort by the MAGA movement. He underscores that the bill codifies President Trump’s most vital campaign promises through the reconciliation process, enabling passage with a simple 50-vote majority without Democratic support.

Notable Quote:
"This represents the culmination in the case of the MAGA movement of 10 years of hard work." – Jim Banks [03:10]

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Key Components of the Bill

Immigration Reform

Timestamp [07:01]:
Jim Banks details the bill's robust immigration provisions, including funding for ICE deportation officers, expanding ICE beds, and increasing deportation flights. He emphasizes that this marks the largest increase in ICE resources in over 20 years, directly addressing the surge in illegal immigration.

Notable Quote:
"We're going to double the number of ICE deportation officers." – Jim Banks [09:48]

Tax Cuts and Fiscal Policies

Timestamp [07:16]:
The bill incorporates extensive tax cuts, including eliminating taxes on tips, overtime, and Social Security, aligning with President Trump’s campaign promises to support the working class.

Notable Quote:
"No tax on tips, no tax on Social Security, no tax on overtime." – Jim Banks [07:16]

Defense and Border Security

Timestamp [35:41]:
Stephen Miller discusses the "Golden Dome," a defense system analogous to Israel's Iron Dome, intended to protect the U.S. from potential drone attacks by adversaries like China and Russia. The bill funds the initial phase of this project, with locations in Indiana playing a pivotal role.

Notable Quote:
"The Golden Dome will defend against weapons from our biggest enemies." – Stephen Miller [35:41]

Medicaid and Welfare Reform

Timestamp [38:54]:
Miller highlights the bill's provisions to impose work requirements on Medicaid recipients, aiming to reduce dependency and save approximately $700 billion over the next decade. This reform targets the 5-6 million able-bodied Americans currently receiving Medicaid without necessity.

Notable Quote:
"Work requirements on Medicaid save hundreds of billions of dollars." – Stephen Miller [38:54]

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Addressing Criticisms and Concerns

Debt Ceiling and Fiscal Responsibility

Timestamp [16:51]:
In response to Senator Ron Johnson's concerns about the debt ceiling and spending cuts, Jim Banks argues that breaking the bill into smaller pieces would hinder its passage. He asserts that the bill's comprehensive nature ensures predictability and fiscal responsibility without Democratic concessions.

Notable Quote:
"Splitting the bill would increase the debt ceiling threshold and prevent its passage." – Jim Banks [16:55]

Bond Market Reactions

Timestamp [25:38]:
Jim Banks addresses apprehensions from figures like Rand Paul regarding the bond market's response. He emphasizes that the bill's focus on tax predictability, manufacturing reshoring, and tariff revenues will provide the necessary confidence and stability to reassure bond investors.

Notable Quote:
"Predictability and certainty in our tax rates provide bond market reassurance." – Jim Banks [25:38]

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Legislative Strategy and Future Outlook

Timestamp [22:07]:
Banks outlines the strategic importance of passing the bill as a single reconciliation measure to avoid procedural hurdles and ensure swift legislative action. He envisions subsequent bills to continue cutting spending and enforcing conservative policies without the need for Democratic collaboration.

Notable Quote:
"This bill paves the way for future reconciliation bills to keep delivering conservative victories." – Jim Banks [22:07]

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Additional Provisions and Policy Wins

AI Regulation Amendment

Timestamp [29:31]:
An amendment addressing artificial intelligence is discussed, aiming to prevent states like California from setting nationwide AI standards that could infringe upon conservative values. This provision seeks to maintain federal oversight and protect against what is perceived as overreach by progressive states.

Notable Quote:
"This language was included to prevent California from nationalizing AI policy." – Jim Banks [30:43]

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Concluding Remarks and Call to Action

Timestamp [32:09]:
Charlie Kirk reiterates the bill’s multifaceted benefits, including economic liberation, enhanced border security, and significant tax relief for working-class Americans. He urges listeners to support the passage of the bill to realize these conservative achievements.

Timestamp [43:27]:
Kirk emphasizes the importance of passing the bill to prevent substantial tax increases and secure the promised reforms, calling on senators to vote in favor to uphold the MAGA movement's legacy.

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Final Thoughts

The episode presents the "Big Beautiful Bill" as a landmark legislative achievement for the conservative movement, intertwining comprehensive immigration reform, substantial tax cuts, and strategic defense initiatives. Through passionate discourse, the hosts and guests advocate for its passage, addressing criticisms and highlighting its role in fulfilling long-standing campaign promises and conserving American sovereignty.

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Note: This summary excludes all advertisements, sponsorship messages, and non-content segments to focus solely on the substantive discussions related to the Big Beautiful Bill.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey, everybody. Charlie Kirk here live from the Bitcoin.com studio. Today on the Charlie Kirk Show, Stephen Miller, he throws it down. You are going to love this conversation with the legendary, the great Stephen Miller. That's right, Stephen Miller, all about the big beautiful bill. Take notes. Text this to your friends. The most comprehensive, in depth and important analysis about the big beautiful bill that you are going to find anywhere. Your questions are answered, your concerns are addressed. That is Stephen Miller here about the big beautiful bill. And then Senator Jim Banks also joins the program. Email US as always, freedomarliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast, that is the Charlie Kirk show podcast page. Become a member today, members.charliekirk.com that is members.charliekirk.com and get involved with Turning Point USA, the most important organization in the country that we are now 13 years old, believe it or not, at tpusa.com that is tpusa.com Buckle up, everybody. Here we go.

[Stephen Miller]

Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[Jim Banks]

I want you to know we are.

[Ron Johnson]

Lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[Jim Banks]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Stephen Miller]

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com Steven, my friend, thank you for joining. How are you doing today?

[Jim Banks]

Thank you. It's great to be on. And let me also just congratulate you, Charlie, on your extraordinary success. You've been such a critical element of the success of the MAGA movement, building this durable framework for pocketless governance. And so I hope your audience appreciates how much we appreciate you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, thank you, Stephen. And we have reciprocal respect here. And I hope everyone in the audience understands that Stephen in the White House every single day is holding down the anchor of the populist nationalist MAGA movement every single day. Stephen Miller is in the meetings. He is talking about more deportations. He is going through the entire list of what did we campaign on, what did we promise and are we delivering it? And you deserve a ton of credit there, Stephen. We have some time and I want to build momentum behind this big, beautiful bill because I think some people are losing the profundity and the significance of what this bill will actually accomplish. What is, in your opinion, the legislative history, the historical significance behind this bill, and what does it mean for the conservative project more broadly?

[Jim Banks]

Yes, it's such a, such an excellent question. And let me start for your audience doesn't know me as well, there's a little bit, and I normally wouldn't do this, but a little bit of extra context on myself. I started working in the conservative movement like you, Charlie, when I was still a kid. I was in high school. Went to war with my administration and teachers at Santa Monica Public High School over radical left wing indoctrination. Carried on the fight at Duke University. Fought relentlessly to defend the innocence of the Duke lacrosse players. My first boss on Capitol Hill was Michele Bachmann of Minnesota. We were Tea Party before there was a Tea Party. I spent my entire adult life in this movement. In the summer of 2015, I started working for President Trump, recognizing instantly that this was the man who was going to finally be able to create a winning formula for populist, nationalist, conservative governance, that he was going to be our antidote to the corruption, to the failures, to the, to the sinister machinations of our failed elites and the ruling class, which is why they spent 10 years trying to destroy him. That's what brings us to this moment. I have waited my entire life and that I was older, it would be, I would say I'd be waiting for 100 years because there's never been a bill like this bill since there has been a conservative movement. This represents the culmination in the case of the Magnum movement of 10 years of hard work. This bill would have been unthinkable in 2017 in the Paul Ryan era. In this bill is the codification of President Trump's most important campaign promises. It is done through a process known as reconciliation, which allows us to enact them into law with 50 votes, not 60. No Democrats are involved. There's no trading with Democrats. No Democrats are involved in the writing or crafting of this bill, nor is it written by the Appropriations Committee. This bill is written by the most conservative lawmakers in Congress, people like Jim Jordan there is written out of the policy making committees by the Republican members there. So, for example, as has been much discussed, it fully Funds the deportation agenda. It fully funds massive expansions. The number of ICE deportation officers, ICE beds, ICE deportation flights, and the complete physical, permanent physical ceiling of the entire southwest border. All of that money, all that funding is provided up front. This was a 10 year plan. In other words, going back to 2017, when Paul Ryan didn't give us the money for the immigration project for 10 years, we thought, given the chance to do it again, we would put all of the immigration money in the first bill out of the chute up front. That's what this bill does. Also significant additional changes to the administration of our immigration system. For example, there's language in here cracking down on nationwide injunctions. There's language in here raising the fees on foreigners coming to our country that we can protect the American taxpayer. There's language in here expanding the mission of the Defense Department to seal and protect the U.S. border. And I could go on. Of course, the bill also includes in it every single tax promise that President Trump made on the campaign trail, but in particular, the populist tax promises to forge that deep alliance with the working class of this country. No tax on tips, no tax on Social Security, no tax on overtime. Look, if Ronald Reagan had just done no tax on tips, they'd still be giving speeches about it today at the Reagan Library.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's true.

[Jim Banks]

They have a whole week at the Reagan Library just devoted to that time that Ronald Reagan did no tax on tips. There'd be whole statues, there'd be museum displays, they'd have entire industries built off of. Just telling the story of the time Reagan did no tax on tips. Isn't that right, Charlie?

[Charlie Kirk]

Without a doubt. I mean, that alone is a. So it's such a major political accomplishment. The Senate passes a ceremonial hundred to nothing. Everyone agrees. I know tax on tips and no one has delivered it. So, Stephen, our audience wants more deportations. Our audience wants to see the campaign promise and campaign mandate fulfilled. How will this bill allow us to have permanent border security, fully finance the wall, and allow us to take our sovereignty in our country back.

[Jim Banks]

Yeah. So in terms of the defense and the saving of Western civilization, this bill is a now or never movement. For those who say, well, split it up into a bunch of different bills, you should understand what that would mean. First, you would immediately change it from a 50 vote threshold to a 60 vote threshold. I'm not here to justify or explain Senate rules. I'm here to tell you reality. And the reality is, under the rules of the Senate, you split it up. Each individual provision that is now included in the big beautiful bill, the pass of the 50 votes would require a 60 vote threshold, which would mean none of them would be enacted into law, but particularly the immigration provisions. Furthermore, not all members, I don't want to be too specific here, but not all members of the Republican Party have the same view about all of these issues. By including the immigration language with the tax cuts, with the welfare reform, it creates a coalition. Politics is all about coalitions. That creates a coalition across the Republican Party to enact this legislation into law again, which is 50 votes. The three major constraints on deportations are personnel, prisons and planes. Personnel, prisons and planes, ICE prisons, also known as ICE beds, ICE detention centers, ICE officers, personnel, planes, deportation plans. So like the most fundamental level, this bill is the largest ever increase in those three categories. Just on the point about ICE officers as an example. So ICE was created after 911 to secure immigration system. This at least for a very brief and fleeting period of time that was never acted upon. There was an understanding that foreign migration was the principal national security threat. Uncontrolled, unvetted, unchecked for migration created the conditions for terrorism that we created. Ice. ICE has received no increase in personnel since its creation.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's a remarkable.

[Jim Banks]

The number of illegal aliens has exploded exponentially.

[Charlie Kirk]

Repeat that. There are still less than that. So amazing. So we now have 25 million illegals and yet ICE is still the same size as it was 20, 20 years ago. That's remarkable.

[Jim Banks]

Yes. More than 20 years ago, there's less than 6,000. It's full time. IC think about it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Every other government agency grows by default. I hope everyone understands this. Right? We get more TSA agents, we get more bureaucrats, we get more mid level managers, we get more Department of Education, we get more DEI officers, we get more diversity czars. But Stephen, you're telling me the one part of government that we can all agree not to grow in is the one that we need the most?

[Jim Banks]

Yes. It's been strangled on purpose for 20 plus years. Yes. And the so just speaking on a personal level, a big part of my own life's work, and of course it is President Trump's vision, boldness, leadership and stewardship of the part of the espouse, to the point of this being possible, has been to just increase the number of ICE officers. The appropriators have never agreed to do it in, in a generation. And this bill is the largest increase any federal agency in a single bill. But this time not for the bureaucrats, not for the lefties, but for ICE officers. So we're going to clean, double the number of ICE deportation officers, but do many other things to expand deportations, giving a larger role for the military. Fully funding 287G so that state and local governments can get involved in deportations, fully funding the National Guard immigration mission. And I could go on, on and on. So that alone would be the biggest conservative policy win in our lifetimes. Just that provision there, you cannot pass that as a standalone. That is not possible as a standalone. So understand when you hear certain libertarians campaigning against this bill, they're not stupid. There are certain libertarians in the House and Senate who are trying to take down this bill. They're not stupid. They understand. They just don't care. I want to be very clear with you. They don't care. Immigration has never mattered to them. It will never matter to them. Deportations have never mattered to them. It will never matter to them. You will never live a day in your life where a libertarian cares as much about immigration and sovereignty as they do about the Congressional Budget Office. That day will never come. It will never happen. Is up to you. It is up to you listening to my voice today to Vindicate President Trump's 10 years of effort and sacrifice to save the sovereignty of this country. And I'll say one other thing. If conservatives want to be able to govern this country, they have to stop being afraid of winning. History is set by winners. President Trump is a winner. President Trump survived two assassination attempts. President Trump was shot in in the head. President Trump survived an effort in multiple jurisdictions to incarcerate him for life. President Trump is a winner. The conservative movement needs to be able to take yes for an answer, to accept winning. And then you make a huge, historic, successful victory, and then you go on to the next victory and the next victory and the next victory. Deep, deep, deep down inside, somewhere in the traumatized conservative psyche, amongst some, not all amongst some, but enough, is an allergy to winning, a great fear of winning. There's a desire deep inside that would rather sit on a panel complaining about a bill than celebrating a victory. And that instinct is everything that MAGA is allergic to. The MAGA movement, among many other things, is about understanding that to save this country, you. You have to be able to govern this country. And all of these procedural hurdles that are being thrown in the way, all of these highly technically bureaucratic complaints, which, by the way, are all fictional, all false, fake, scores of tax cuts, and everything else, are all born not from policy disagreement, but from a fear of winning. And that is what we must overcome. More than anything else or we will lose the country.

[Charlie Kirk]

There is so much truth to this. I hope everyone understands. The most important thing that we could do to fulfill the mandate is re establish our sovereignty. Tax on remittances. Thousand dollar upfront fee just to apply for asylum. Changing the asylum process fully funding ice. Isn't it amazing how DC they become such fiscal conservatives when it comes to ice? We're able to grow every other department of the federal government but ICE has no growth. I wonder why. Because the main core, the life force of the globalist project is open borders. Listen, you've heard me talk about Patriot Mobile for a while and I love Patriot Mobile. They're phenomenal people, Glenn and the entire team. We get along so well. You probably already know that. For years they've stood in the gap for every American. If you believe in faith, family, freedom, they're fighting for you. They're the real deal. So listen, you have a choice to make. You can make the switch today to no longer finance mobile companies that don't share your values. They've got cutting edge technology. Switching is easy. No store visits, no hassle. Keep your number, keep your phone or upgrade. Their 100% US based customer service team can activate you in minutes right over the phone. And get this, Patriot Mobile is one of the few carriers with access to all three major US networks. That means exceptional nationwide coverage. Plus they can even put a second number on a different network on one phone. It's like carrying two phones in one. They have an unlimited data plan, mobile hotspots, international roaming, Internet on the go devices and home Internet backup. You can't get this all from the big guys. So what are you waiting for? Make the switch today and experience the Patriot Mobile difference. Just go to patriotmobile.com charlie or call 972patriot and right now use promo code Charlie for a free month of Service. Switch to patriotmobile.com Charlie make the switch today. Patriotmobile.com Charlie okay, so Stephen, Senator Ron Johnson, Senator Rand Paul say we're not gonna vote for this because it raises the debt ceiling and it does not cut enough spending. Let me play cut 413. This is Senator Ron Johnson who said this on the show yesterday. Play cut 413.

[Ron Johnson]

Well, first of all, I know we're not gonna meet the moment with one bill. We won't. The House didn't do it. We won't if we quick rush this thing through. So we've got to split this up, focus on the areas of agreement, border defense. Take the spending reductions. The House has given us that. They've agreed to extend current tax law, take the automatic tax increase off the table. That was a blunder in the Tax Cut and Jobs Act. We should have scored that in current policy. We weren't smart enough to do that. Increase the debt ceiling for about a year, keep the pressure on. I've got to convince President Trump that is to his advantage. He wants to balance the budget. That's what he said. Well, we're not even coming close to putting ourselves on a path to balance the budget. He needs that leverage as well. We'll never default on the debt, ever. We've got more than enough revenue to service our debt. We will increase the debt ceiling, but we ought to do it in increments to keep the.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, Stephen, what is your response here to Senator Ron Johnson?

[Jim Banks]

So on the debt ceiling, the only way to raise the debt ceiling without Democrat votes is to do it in a reconciliation bill. So as the first point, if you take the debt ceiling out of this bill, the only way to avoid a catastrophic default, which would cause a surge in interest rates and therefore surge in deficits and a giant debt explosion, would be to make a deal with Chuck Schumer. And that deal would come with significantly higher taxes, a huge bailout for California, many other terrible policies. So it would be a huge loss for conservatives. Now, the second point that he makes is, why don't we just split this up into a lot of different votes and everything else, if you've been watching. So we've been working on this legislation, far from being rushed since December, we've been working on this legislation. So it'll be almost a year of effort. If you split up the debt ceiling into smaller tranches, it will shut down the entire legislative project. We will just spend every month, every session till the end of time going through these internal procedural issues. We will inevitably come up short more than once and have to go to Chuck Schumer begging and pleading to bail us out on the debt ceiling. We have the chance now, as Republicans, to raise the debt ceiling together, attached.

[Charlie Kirk]

To without simultaneous concessions. So that's the argument.

[Jim Banks]

So the argument is no concessions attached to the strongest set of conservative policy reforms.

[Charlie Kirk]

Otherwise, Chuck Schumer would hold the debt ceiling hostage. And then we have to do all this other stuff we don't want to do. So the other question I have here, every conservative, I think that's smart. It's very pragmatic. What do you have to say to the contention that this bill does not cut enough spending, that it is not a Big enough cut. What is your response to that?

[Jim Banks]

So, first, facts just off the top. According even to the highly flawed Congressional Budget Office score, The bill cuts 1.6 plus trillion dollars in federal spending, including the largest welfare reform in history. Far larger, by the way, than the much vaunted welfare reform from the Gingrich era in the 90s. So a full welfare reform attached to Medicaid and food stamps, the biggest welfare reform in history. And then again, $1.7 trillion, 1.6 or so trillion dollars and spending cuts. Now, with respect to the CBO score, that score solely is referring to the tax cut. So this is. There's a been a deliberate bad faith substitution argument that's been made here. We have certain people, some libertarians, making bad faith arguments, saying, oh, the CBO says it's going to explode the debt. The CBO says they're going to explode the deficit. You know, and then therefore, because there's all this pork in the bill. No, there's no pork in the bill. The bill has been public for weeks. Every single provision is just one campaign pledge, one promise, one campaign vow after another. The only new spending in the bill is to secure the homeland of the United States and save American sovereignty, fully paid for, by the way, by increased visa fees on foreigners. But the CBO score is just what they say is the cost of extending the 2017 Trump tax cut. For my entire life, every conservative fiscal voice has understood that not raising taxes doesn't cost anything. In other words, keeping the current tax rates in place has no cost associated with it. So that is a, that is a budget gimmick. The bill cuts spending. Now, for people who would say they'd like to add more spending cuts, here's a very important point. There'll be a process in the Senate. We will see what comes out of that process. This bill was never sold to the American people. Not in the campaign, not in the transition, as the one great big chance to permanently solve America's debt problem. That kind of process requires significant public buy in because you're talking about changing benefit programs that people rightly or wrongly rely on and depend upon. It requires significant public education. It requires multiple steps. We will be committing the same error in a different direction as Barack Obama did when he campaigned on dealing with the Wall street housing recession and the housing meltdown. And he came in and did Obamacare. If we just came in and we said, oh, I know, we campaigned on fully sealing the southern border, deporting all the illegals, reclaiming our sovereignty, reclaiming our national Unity, unleashing American energy, deregulating economy, extending all these tax cuts and making them permanent and making them bigger. But instead, our first bill is going to be principally a health care bill, Right. That would be seen as a big switch on the American people, a bad face switch. So, yes, this bill will include very significant, very important welfare reforms and deep substantive spending cuts. But it is a fundamentally bad faith argument to say the tax cut and border bill is now a health care bill.

[Charlie Kirk]

So the, the response, though, that some people would say is that why don't you do two reconciliation bills, one in 25 and one in 26. What would your response to that be?

[Jim Banks]

Steven, if we have a big win right now and we have wind at our back, then absolutely we will do another reconciliation bill and another reconciliation bill. And by the way, not having the debt ceiling on this future reconciliation bill by doing it in this bill will make it far easier to pass the next bill and the next bill and the next bill to keep reforming government, to keep delivering conservative policy wins. I want to make one point. Remember the first day, first week, the first couple weeks of the Trump presidency when we did the big beautiful bill version of executive orders, where every campaign promise that we could do was done. Where we did ended the ei, we ended crt, we ended gender madness, we got the transgender troops out of the military, we sealed the border shut, all of those things. I don't remember anyone, any, any commentators on the right saying, oh, no, no, no, no, you can't do all your promises all so quickly. You got to titrate it out, do three promises a year. The, the reconciliation bill is a chance in one fell swoop without beating Democrat votes. So without a filibuster to be able to codify the very campaign promises that we have done by executive order. So people keep saying, well, why don't you put the executive orders into law? That's what this bill literally does.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes.

[Jim Banks]

And one last point. This bill is not a spending bill. This might shock some in your audience who've been following the commentary online. How much money is this bill appropriate to the Department of Education? $0. How much is it appropriate to left wing NGOs? $0. How much does it give the Department of Labor? $0. Department of Commerce, $0. The federal workforce, $0. It's not a spending bill. It does not fund the government. It has two major fiscal provisions. It expands and makes permanent the tax cuts, and it fundamentally reforms welfare. And the most significant policy provision, which pays for itself the visa fees, is sealing the Southern border.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Jim Banks]

The number one thing that the bond market needs to see is predictability and certainty in our tax rates, including by the way, the 100% expensing provision for new factories fulfilling the President's manufacturing reshoring pledge so that we can begin to realize the full potential of massive economic growth both through job creation and reshoring, which will then increase revenues, create confidence, create certainty. That combined with tariffs which are already now seeing projections even with the current rates at $3 trillion in tariff revenue that will provide the bond market certainty. A giant tax cliff combined with a giant debt cliff is the worst thing for bond markets as far as again how significant historic this bill is. The 2017 Trump tax cuts were rightly hailed as one of conservative, one of the conservatives great victories. How much greater would we say that victory was if it also included full funding for the border wall? What if it also included full funding for deportation? What if it also defunded transgender surgeries nationwide? What if it also had the first ever endowment tax on America's corrupt institutions of higher learning. What if that bill also had no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on Social Security? What if that bill also created the strongest framework for energy deregulation in American history? Right. What if that bill also created the first ever system for the Department of Defense to be involved in the defense of our sovereign border? In other words, one policy went after another, plus the tax cuts. Nothing like this has ever been done before in the history of the conservative movement. This bill is electric. It is that good. And it. And it saddens me that there have been attempts to mis. Portray it so severely. None of does it mean that we can't agree. Yes, let's keep finding ways to reduce the budget deficit. Let's keep finding ways to cut spending. Let's keep finding ways to lower our debt trajectory. But a rational person should be able to say, wow, it is amazing that this bill accomplishes the full tax agenda, the full border agenda, the, the full immigration agenda, the full energy agenda, large portions of the trans and de wokeifying agenda, large portions of the higher ed agenda. Also cancels the Green New Deal, also cancels the student loan bailout. Also has the largest welfare reform in history. But you can acknowledge all that. And then if you want to be an even greater fiscal hawk, say, but I'd like to cut more. But to pretend this bill includes pork. There's no pork in the bill. It's been public for weeks. And the only provisions you will find in the bill are campaign promises.

[Charlie Kirk]

And Stephen, the other component of this that I think is important, and you mentioned this though, guys, we have a budget that we have to do later this year that Congress will vote on and another reconciliation bill next year and another budget. And so there are other opportunities to get more spending reforms, to do more rescission. By the way, we're gonna have impoundment act stuff that's coming up in the Supreme Court. There are another stabs to go after this. But let's also be very clear.

[Jim Banks]

All government funding expires in September 30th. Yes, all government funding expires in September 3rd. By the way, as proof that this bill isn't a, quote, spending bill. After we pass this bill, guess what still happens? Funding for the federal bureaucracy goes to zero. September 30th. That again, that would probably surprise some of your listeners who've been following online commentary. They say, wait, how's that possible? I heard it was a spending bill. How's funding going to run out in September because it's not a spending bill. And the people who told you it was a spending bill lied to you. And the question you should be asking yourself is, how do we get to a place in the movement where we can have disagreements in good faith, which is the necessary condition for winning. But being addicted to a losing cycle is what will relegate the conservative movement to. To a future of failure. And that's the cycle we have to break.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, final question here, Steven. Some people on the Internet are clamoring about this artificial intelligence amendment to it or some sort of saying that local and state governments cannot regulate AI. What is the truth or the fiction here regarding this? This is receiving a lot of attention.

[Jim Banks]

Yeah. So this is something that David Sacks has talked a lot about. Now, I wouldn't, I wouldn't claim that this, this provision is essential to the, to the framework of the building anyway, but it's an example of another conservative policy win. So one of the biggest problems that we have as a nation is that California, because of its size, can set the rules for the entire country because companies have to do business there. So they set a fuel emission standard that all the car companies have to abide by that standard.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's exactly right.

[Jim Banks]

They say they're not going to allow energy infrastructure that no one in the country to get energy shipped from our coast through California. So they basically bully, dominate and intimidate freedom for the rest of the country. This provision presents California from setting an AI standard that will then be the standard for every other state in the country. So if California mandates dei, affirmative action, racial discrimination, and trans madness in AI, then that will be the model for the whole country.

[Charlie Kirk]

I have not heard anyone made that argument. And that's exactly right, because almost all these AI companies are headquartered in California. So they could pseudo nationalize the entire country. If Gavin Newsom all of a sudden says, actually no. In your large language models, you have to say that men can become pregnant. You have to be able to say that you have, you know, white people are terrible.

[Jim Banks]

Yes. They will be able to effectively nationalize AI policy for the entire nation through San Francisco. That's why this language was included. Again, people can say it doesn't. It's not essential to the framework of this bill, but it's another example of a conservative policy win inside the bill.

[Charlie Kirk]

Are you optimistic this is going to pass?

[Jim Banks]

I am optimistic. Very optimistic. Because fundamentally, I have faith in the power of the Trump voter.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes.

[Jim Banks]

More than anything else, I have faith in the power of the Trump voter. The people who waited in line. The people whose hearts fell to their stomachs in Butler, Pennsylvania, and then left with joy when he stood up and raised his fist. The people who've been going through rain, sleet and snow for 10 years. The people who endured alongside President Trump, every prosecution, every hoax, every witch hunt, at this moment of culmination of victory for the movement. I have faith in them to demand their members stand with President Trump, the man who has led this movement, one hardship after another for 10 years, to bring us to the precipice, this victory.

[Charlie Kirk]

Stephen, thank you so much. We have your back 100%. I think you made a phenomenal case for why we need to get this bill done. It is more than 80% of the pie and we're going to balance this budget in subsequent reconciliations and budget it still cuts over $1.6 trillion. And Stephen, you made a great case. Credit to you. Thank you for the time. Thank you for being generous. We're going to clip this and send it everywhere and anybody, before you make up your mind on this beautiful bill, listen to this whole conversation. Steven, thank you so much.

[Jim Banks]

Thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Blake made a great point in our chat. I think this is so great. There's so much good stuff in the big beautiful bill. It's just simultaneously so upsetting that we're in such a bind because we're broke due to blowing money eternally on stupid stuff the last 40 years. It's a great point and so it just kind of puts us in this bind. But there is so much good stuff here, everybody. That will liberate the American economy. That will grow, that will drill baby, drill. And no tax on tips and tax on remittances and deportation agenda and build the wall. It's been 13 years since Turning Point USA was started and why Refi has played a big role in our growth and our campus tours. Why Refi does not care what your credit score is. Go to why refi.com Private student loan debt in America totals about $300 billion. Why refi refinances distressed or defaulted private student loans that others simply will not touch. If your private student loan debt is keeping you up at night and ruining your life, it doesn't have to. Just call yrefi yrefy.com do you have a co borrower? Yrefi can get them released from the loan and you can give mom or dad a break. Go to yrefi.com it's called 888 yrefi34 or log on to yrefi.com that is yrefy.com yrefi.com many clients aren't even able to make the minimum monthly payment on their private student loans when they first contact yrefi. Go to yrefi.com that is y r e f y dot com. Joining us now is Senator Jim Banks, phenomenal senator from the state of Indiana. Senator, thank you for taking the time today. Look, we're all focused on the big beautiful bill. Elon Musk is saying some pretty harsh things about it, but there's things in the bill that we've been talking about that are so important for the MAGA agenda. What is your response to Elon Musk and is he having any impact on your colleagues? Please, Senator.

[Stephen Miller]

Yeah, Charlie. We've got to pass this bill. If we don't pass it, working class families in America will take the biggest tax hit that they've ever, that they've ever had before. $3,000 on average, that every family will be taxed if we don't extend the Trump tax cuts on working class families, the individual rates, the small business rates from the 2017 tax cut tax Cuts and Jobs act, that, that's what this is all about. And then funding the mass deportation effort, securing the border, modernizing our military so that we can keep up with the China threat. This is, this really is the, the big beautiful bill because it, it pushes the Trump agenda that the American people voted for. That's exactly what we promised on the campaign trail and it's what we're going to deliver with the bill. I understand some of the, the complaints about the bill. A $37 trillion national debt, we have to address it. President Trump is serious about balancing the budget. But this isn't where you do that. You do that in the spending fights, the appropriations fights that come later in the summer. The big beautiful bill is about keeping taxes low for the working class voters of America that elected Donald Trump. That's why we have to pass this bill asap.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let's talk more about the priorities here, including the Golden Dome. Why does America need a Golden Dome? And will that include defenses against a potential drone invasion by the Chinese Communist Party? We're seeing sophisticated drone technology and weaponry be used, for example, of Ukraine versus Russia. Will the Golden Dome fortify our defenses against a potential drone incursion against the United States?

[Stephen Miller]

Yeah, the Golden Dome will do that in a big way. I mean, think about the Iron Dome and what it does to protect Israel. The Golden Dome is America's version. And President Trump, that really the first time since Reagan talked About the, talked about this in the 80s. President Trump is delivering on it with the Golden Dome. Indiana is going to play a big role in it. We're going to help build it at companies in Indiana and at a, a Navy base in Southern Indiana called Crane Navy Base is going to play a big role in it. But what, what it will do to make Russia and China and some of their weapons obsolete because America will be able to, will be able to defend itself against those, those weapons from, from our biggest enemies, our biggest adversaries. That's really significant because it's a deterrent. It pushes them back and it takes some of their loud, their loud talk and, and some of their demands off the table when, when we know that we can defend against anything that they put up in the air after us. So it's really significant. It'll keep America safe and secure for a long time to come. And it delivers on another one of President Trump's campaign promises with the Golden Dome. So I'm proud to support it. And the, the big beautiful bill funds it. It puts a major down payment on the Golden Dome, the first to start building it, to get it going. And it's a, it's a significant reason, another significant reason why we got to, we got to pass this bill as soon as we can to extend the track the tax cuts on working class families to fund the mass deportation effort to get these criminal illegal immigrants out of this country. Like the terrorist in Boulder, Colorado last weekend should have been deported, but he overstayed his visa. The big beautiful bill will fund the deportation effort of terrorists and criminals just like that one. So there's so much about this bill that the good far outweighs the bad. And that's why we have to pass it, send it to President Trump to sign it, and then move on. I mean, Charlie, this is a big part about, this is the first reconciliation bill. We can pass more reconciliation bills if we get this one out of the way, get the first big one passed into the president and then we can do the next one that can focus more on cutting spending and cutting a lot of the bad things that the Biden administration did to this country. Let's move on quickly to the next one.

[Charlie Kirk]

And this still does cut spending. It doesn't cut what all of us would want as enough. The bond market is still a little shaky, but it still does cut spending that's very important. So people don't know that Medicaid is really perverse in its incentive structures. We want to be able to say if you Are able bodied get off the couch. I assume the Senate is looking very closely at the Medicaid component in particular. What are your thoughts?

[Stephen Miller]

Yeah, I think this is good policy and it's really good politics. I mean, you think about the, the, all of the estimates are that somewhere between 5 and 6 million Americans who are able bodied, who aren't taking care of a sick kid or a sick mom, but are sitting at home, not working and still getting Medicaid. So work requirements means that those Americans will be pushed back into the workplace. And that's good for, that's good for society and that's good for those, those individuals. It makes them, it gives them more worth and more, more satisfaction. It gives them a better life and a better lifestyle. So this is really good for America. And then, and then another million and a half illegals who are on Medicaid who shouldn't receive Medicaid. Charlie, I think about my dad all the time. He's a retired union factory worker and he can't believe it. He can't believe it when I tell him that there are 5 million Americans who are sitting at home who don't go to work, but they can work. My dad went and worked in a factory, all of his work in life and made axles. And then, then there are people sitting at, or sitting at home and they get a free paycheck. So there's something, there's something gross about that. There's something, there's something completely unfair about it. And work requirements on Medicaid is a, is a big way to fix it. And it turns out it saves hundreds of billions of dollars, I think, I think $700 billion that we'll save through work requirements on Medicaid over the next 10 years. That's really good policy. It's really good politics.

[Charlie Kirk]

There are so many other elements here. 10,000 new ICE agents. Eliminates the Medicaid for illegal aliens. Mandates voter ID for federal elections. Stop Chinese ownership of U.S. land. Revives the Keystone XL pipeline. Tax breaks for adoption in large families. The deeper we go into this, this bill, the more good that we realize. Also my understanding is that there's some opportunities in this bill to stop corporations from getting subsidies for taxes they didn't pay, basically bleeding US Taxpayers to help foreign companies. I mean, apparently there's some loophole where foreign companies are getting refunds from the federal government by using some sort of import export scheme. Senator, can you explain this?

[Stephen Miller]

Yeah, it's so absurd. You can't explain it. I mean, when President Trump talks about America first, it means closing loopholes that subsidize foreign countries and jobs in foreign countries to the detriment of jobs in America. So this really is a America first bill. It's the one big beautiful bill that President Trump promised on the campaign trail. You listed so many good things about it. But at the end of the day, Charlie, I mean, I can't. To those on my side of the aisle, those Republicans, those critics, critics of this bill, do you really want working class families? The mechanics, factory workers, teachers, police officers, the men and women who go to work every day, you want to stick them with a, with an extra $3,000 in taxes when they have such a hard time already making ends meet today, do you really want the biggest tax hike on working class families to go into effect on our watch with our president? With a Republican majority in the House and the Senate, I just can't believe, I can't believe there's any Republican that would be okay with that. And that's why we have to pass this bill as fast as we can to send it to the President. It gets our economy going.

[Charlie Kirk]

We need to pass the big beautiful bill, period. And just to add more contextualization there, cuz this was in my show notes sent to me by somebody. They said apparently there was some like, foreign loophole where, where I guess like cigarette companies are able to get refunds from the federal government. Like, it ends all that. It puts American companies first. Just one of many, many accomplishments and victories. No tax on tips, American companies first, ICE agents, you name it. Senator, 30 seconds. Are you optimistic your colleagues are gonna step up to the plate and pass the big beautiful bill?

[Stephen Miller]

We have to, we have to pass this bill. I mean, it's so important to the men and women who gave President Trump a historic election victory, a historic mandate, the popular vote, the working class voters who are Republican now because of Donald Trump, they're counting on us to pass this bill to make sure that the biggest tax increase in American history doesn't occur on our watch. We will not tell their out of their pocketbooks.

[Charlie Kirk]

Senator, thank you so much. Get your senators across the line. We must pass the big, beautiful bill. Thank you so much.

[Stephen Miller]

Thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thirteen years ago, I was in a car driving to Rockford, Illinois, and this journey started. It was June 5, 2012. I was wrestling on kind of what we're going to call this organization. And my dad came up with a list of names and all of a sudden he said, turning Point. I said, that's the one. Spoke at a Tea Party rally out In Rockford. And the journey started. No money, no connections and no idea what I was doing. Started to barnstorm Illinois and in the Midwest, speaking at every possible Tea Party rally I could. That was the garage that we literally started in Lamont, Illinois. I had burning desire, looking back at it, I wanted to grow this thing more than anything imaginable. I poured every part of my being into this. As Napoleon Hill would say, conceive, believe, work achieved. CBWA was the daily mantra that I would have. Nobody believed in us. We were considered, and not just me, an outsider. It is incomprehensible odds that we are up against. Show some of these pictures in the chat, guys. And Bill Montgomery, may he rest in peace, great man and great mentor, was one of the few people that was a picture of Bill and I. I didn't get a lot of pictures with Bill, unfortunately, at the Republican national convention in 2012, where I basically had to smuggle myself in to that convention. That's where I met the great Foster Fries. And may he also rest in peace, where I gave him the first stairwell pitch. I said, will you give us some money? And he told me his name in a very comical way. And he ended up writing us a $10,000 check, which might as well have been $100 million at the time. That was the startup funding to allow us to get a website. And for 10 years straight, I made a promise to myself and I kept that promise that I might not be the smartest, I might not have the best college education or any at all, but I will outwork you. You see, when I first entered the political space, I had a misconception. I thought everybody worked hard. I thought in the world everybody had a burning desire to succeed. I thought that was largely universal. Of course, that was my youthful naivete. Little did I realize that most people are just kind of meandering through life. As Thoreau would say, the mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. So I realized that not everyone wanted to take Red Eye flights, and not everyone wanted to do Fox News hits on Thanksgiving, and not everyone wanted to do Friday night radio hits. Not everyone wanted to wake up, as I did, over a hundred times at 3am or 4am to go do Fox and Friends. First, people thought I was nuts, but I said, I'm gonna outwork you. We gotta make this thing happen. We gotta save the Republic, we gotta save Western civilization. And the movement grew and our team increased and we started to meet donors and we started to meet funders. And oh, my goodness, the first trial that we had were other conservative organizations and libertarian organizations trying to attack us because we were the new kids on the block. Who were we? What were we trying to do? The asymmetric warfare from many organizations that are just, you know, they pale in comparison now trying to sabotage us. We're going to take Charlie Kirk out. It wasn't the left, it wasn't the media. It was other conservatives that tried to take us out. But, boy, did we persevere. And we kept our head down and we kept on working with grittiness and with fortitude. That was one of our first events ever at University of Wisconsin, Madison. Three members, three people attended our event. It was three more than I ever would have expected. And I would travel the Midwest in my Volkswagen. If I could speak it to 10 people, I would do it. If I could speak to five people, I would do it everywhere imaginable. I would be just trying to get the message of turning point USA out. And now, 13 years later, hundreds of thousands of student members, thousands of high school and college chapters, we have tpusa faith. We have Turning Point action. We're chasing ballots. We have billions of views online. We, we have 400,000 donors to Turning Point USA. Relationship with the President. United States played a role in this massive movement. And let's be honest, President Trump, our increase would never been possible. We would have been big. We would not be where we are today. And Don Jr deserves credit and JD Vance deserves credit and President Trump. And now here we are today. We are the biggest conservative organization, period. Not just young, but, but the biggest conservative organization. And no one really comes even close. The media has trouble even saying that they think we're just a youth organization. We're actually much bigger. And I say that with a great deal of heaviness and humility and weight because with great, great privilege comes phenomenal responsibility. Now we are 13 years old. We are a teenager defying all the odds and only made possible thanks to God Almighty blessing us every step of the way. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless. For more on many of these stories.

[Jim Banks]

And news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.