Bondi Down + The Suicidal Death of the West ft. Dr. Gad Saad

Summary

The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: Bondi Down + The Suicidal Death of the West ft. Dr. Gad Saad

Date: April 2, 2026
Host: Charlie Kirk (segments hosted by Andrew Colvett and Blake)
Special Guest: Dr. Gad Saad

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles the theme of Western civilization’s decline through “suicidal empathy,” focusing on immigration, demographic change, foreign policy, and criminal justice. The first half covers key news: updates on the Iran war, Trump’s speech and shifting foreign alliances, and breaking cabinet reshuffles (notably, Pam Bondi’s ouster as Attorney General). The second half is an extended conversation with Dr. Gad Saad about his new book, The Suicidal Empathy, and the mechanisms by which the West undermines itself through misguided compassion, specifically around mass immigration, Islamification, and soft-on-crime policies.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trump’s Iran Speech and Shifting Alliances

[01:26 – 08:26]

• Trump claims military objectives in Iran will be completed in “two to three weeks.” No ground invasion or new escalation announced, which is significant.
• Trump to European allies: Keep the Strait of Hormuz open yourselves; the U.S. is “wiping its hands” of long-term responsibility.

  “We have enough oil. If you want the Strait cleared, Europe… it’s up to you.” – Andrew Colvett [07:08]

• Tension remains with NATO countries that refused military assistance or base usage.
• Long-term: U.S. relationships with NATO will be reassessed after current operations.

2. Cabinet Shakeups: Pam Bondi & Tulsi Gabbard

[08:26 – 13:43, 29:34 – 30:12, 73:49 – 75:38]

• Strong rumors (later confirmed live) that Pam Bondi is out as Attorney General over controversies like the handling of Epstein files and MAGA base dissatisfaction.
• Tulsi Gabbard’s future questioned after she was perceived as insufficiently supportive during Iran operations; less concrete than Bondi’s case.
• EPA Director Lee Zeldin considered as Bondi’s replacement; Bondi will take another administration role.
• Trump’s statement:

  “Pam Bondi is a great American patriot and a loyal friend… murders plummeting to their lowest level since 1900. We love Pam…” — President Trump (read by Andrew Colvett) [74:20]

3. DHS Funding and “Mass Deportations”

[13:44 – 15:38]

• New budget deal to fund DHS, with ICE and Border Patrol funding handled in July reconciliation bill.
• Democrats did not win concessions on limiting or hamstringing ICE/CBP.
• Panel commentary: The fight over funding is part of a larger battle over border security and immigration enforcement.

  “The ultimate goal here is to prevent the enforcement of American law to enable the unlimited invasion of America by foreigners…despicable people.” – Blake [15:38]

4. Fact-Checking the “Bullets Did Not Match” Headline (Daily Mail, Tyler Robinson Case)

[17:51 – 27:44]

• Special guest Jay Towne, former U.S. Attorney, debunks misleading headlines about bullet forensics in the Charlie Kirk assassination:
  • “Unable to identify” in ballistics does not mean gun didn’t match; it simply means degradation made precise identification impossible, but caliber testing is conclusive.
  • Defense strategy is to delay and fuel “conspiracy culture.”
  • There is a mountain of evidence against the shooter, Tyler Robinson: DNA, admissions, CCTV, etc.

  “The defense lawyer knows…they’re buying time. The longer these things drag out for the family, for the state, for the witnesses, the better your case as a defendant gets.” – Jay Towne [21:57]

• Legal system should play out, but facts are overwhelming; conspiracy narratives are opportunistic.

5. Civil Service and Gen Z Recruitment

[30:12 – 36:12]

• Scott Kupor, OPM Director, details a new initiative to increase young people (<30) in the federal workforce, as only 7% are currently under 30.
• Hiring push for tech, HR, finance, program management, and contracting; degree requirements being dropped in favor of skills.
• Conservative push to fill the “deep state” with pro-American young people.

  “What do we all complain about as conservatives? …the deep state, the government, it’s full of left wing career bureaucrats…The way you fix that is actually we get young people who have pro American values…” — Blake [35:13]

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Dr. Gad Saad: Suicidal Empathy and the Death of the West

[38:52 – 82:50]

Author & Book Introduction

• Dr. Gad Saad plugs his upcoming book The Suicidal Empathy (out May 12, 2026).

  “It’s really important if you can actually pre order the book because…if the book can immediately hit the bestseller list, then that becomes an avalanche.” – Dr. Gad Saad [41:03]

Suicidal Empathy: Birthright Citizenship and Immigration

[41:27 – 46:33]

• U.S. birthright citizenship described as a “suicide pact,” enabling foreign adversaries (CCP, etc.) to plant future citizens.
• Saad: American identity is not about place of birth but internalized values.

  “The American spirit is enshrined in the DNA of our value systems. It’s not the fact that you’re born in the United States… it’s whether you’ve internalized a set of values and codes that uniquely defines American exceptionalism.” – Dr. Gad Saad [42:26]

• Demographic change (the maxim “demography is destiny”) is central to national survival.

“We Are Not a Nation of Immigrants” Myth

[46:33 – 53:08]

• Andrew Colvett traces the myth of America as a nation of immigrants, suggesting the founding reality was one of settlers, not perpetual newcomers.
• Dr. Saad agrees, citing “categorization error:” just as not all felines are alike, who immigrates matters (values, culture, etc).

  “…when you say all immigrants are equal…they’re saying there’s no inherent differences between the values that come with one set of immigrants and another… That’s a categorization error.” – Dr. Gad Saad [50:55]

The Tabula Rasa and Trump’s Impact

[53:08 – 55:42]

• The panel discusses the flaw in “blank slate” thinking—people, and by extension, immigrant populations, are not identical or interchangeable.
• Trump praised for shattering establishment taboos, especially on immigration and foreign policy.

  “He came down that golden escalator and he just started throwing bombs about stuff that was these pieties you were not allowed to address…” – Andrew Colvett [53:08]

Islamification: Demography, Power, and Suicidal Empathy

[58:48 – 72:07]

• Dr. Saad describes how compassion and rights are weaponized by Islamic activists and their progressive allies; Western empathy is seen as weakness.
• Memorable quotes:

  “Islam is all about power and leftism is all about power. Maybe that’s also what they have in common…they both despise the West.” — Charlie Kirk [58:56]
  “…the West is a woman to be mounted...all of the virtues we think laudable in the West…are heard as weakness by cultures that don’t...share our infinite largesse.” — Dr. Gad Saad [59:45]

• The “Islamist party” poised to take power in Birmingham, UK, and U.S. politicians calibrating messaging for Islamic constituencies are cited as real-world examples of demographic replacement playing out.
• Dr. Saad references the Muslim Brotherhood’s plan to “conquer the West” via:
  1. High birthrates (“womb of our women”)
  2. Migration (“hijra”)
  3. Exploiting Western freedoms.
• Demographic tipping points: at around 20%, societies see major, often aggressive, cultural and legal shifts.

  “If you allow it to happen, I will guarantee you, inshallah, that it will happen. The Birmingham folks are now finding out.” — Dr. Gad Saad [67:46]

• Analogy: Diabetes doesn’t kill you in a day; demographic change works the same way—slow but inexorable.

Criminal Justice and Suicidal Empathy

[75:38 – 80:57]

• Recent mural controversy in Providence, RI, as a symbol of how “empathy” is selectively applied—memorials to victims of leftist violence removed, but George Floyd lionized.
• Saad on “blank slate felons”: Progressivism targets empathy wrongly at criminals rather than victims.
• Striking examples:
  • Norwegian man raped by Somali migrant feels guilty when assailant is deported.
  • American woman raped in Haiti blames white supremacy and “learns from the experience.”

  “Suicidal empathy is so parasitic that even the victims of the crimes feel greater empathy to their felon who victimized them than to themselves.” – Dr. Gad Saad [77:35]

Canada as “Stage Five” Suicidal Empathy

[81:24 – 82:28]

• Dr. Saad critiques Canada’s ultra-progressive policies, e.g., University of Waterloo job postings reserving top AI professorships for non-binary, two-spirit, or transgender applicants.

  “Canada has stage five suicidal empathy.” – Dr. Gad Saad [82:28]

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “It’s the dog that didn’t bark here.” — Andrew Colvett, on defense not arguing caliber in bullet forensics [21:55]
• “Countries that think they have strong militaries when really they’re just relying on the U.S.… I’m open minded. I’m going to be really honest. I don’t fear the world order sort of shifting and evolving over time.” — Andrew Colvett [08:58]
• “No great nation would allow themselves to get played like that.” — Andrew Colvett, on birthright citizenship [43:29]
• “When you have a guy who is sodomized and a woman who’s viciously raped themselves feeling empathy for their rapists, you couldn’t have a better poster child of suicidal empathy.” – Dr. Gad Saad [77:35]

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Key Takeaways

• Foreign Policy Realignment: The U.S. is demanding more global burden-sharing; Trump’s foreign policy is “America first” in oil security and military intervention.
• Cabinet Unrest: The Trump administration is undergoing significant internal shifts, especially under activist base pressure for “results” and “accountability.”
• Civil Service Revolution: There’s a coordinated conservative effort to place more young right-leaning professionals in government roles, bypassing traditional degree requirements.
• Immigration as Existential Threat: The show, with Dr. Saad’s backing, frames mass immigration and non-assimilation—especially from the Islamic world—as an existential threat enabled by Western empathy and legal pieties.
• Empathy Weaponized: “Suicidal empathy” is central, explaining both the failure to defend borders and the decay of criminal and civic order. Saad’s examples highlight how misplaced compassion can invert victim and perpetrator, eroding civilization’s will to protect itself.

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Structuring and Flow

The episode flows from topical news (geopolitics, cabinet intrigue, DHS funding) to deep cultural critique, culminating in Dr. Saad’s thesis about the West’s self-undoing via empathy. The dialogue balances analysis with lived experience and memorable rhetoric, making complex issues accessible yet forceful in tone.

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Suggested Further Listening/Reading

• Pre-order Dr. Gad Saad’s The Suicidal Empathy (drops May 12, 2026).
• Follow Charlie Kirk and the show for continued coverage of these culture war flashpoints.

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Featured Segments & Timestamps

| Segment | Summary | Timestamp | |--------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------|-----------| | Trump Speech Analysis | Defining victory, shifting responsibility to NATO | 01:26–08:26 | | Bondi/Gabbard News | Bondi fired; Gabbard’s loyalty debated | 08:26–13:43, 29:34–30:12, 73:49–75:38 | | DHS Funding Debate | Enforcement, base reaction to budget deal | 13:44–15:38 | | Forensics Deep Dive | Jay Towne debunks defense/media confusion | 17:51–27:44 | | Recruiting Gen Z | Government hiring, ending degree requirements | 30:12–36:12 | | Dr. Saad Interview | Immigration, Islamification, empathy, Canada critique| 38:52–82:50 |

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For more on these stories and news, visit CharlieKirk.com.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord.

[Andrew Colvett]

Use me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com.

[Andrew Colvett]

all right, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show. It's April 2nd. We got through April 1st. I was not unscathed. I have to say. I got duped into the.

[Blake]

I was really enjoying the. Some local sheriff's agency put up AI generated stuff of their new don't safety initiative. So they were putting up special don't signs that represented like don't get distracted and various things. And they were putting it, you know, above stop signs. Don't stop, don't yield.

[Andrew Colvett]

I like that one. That sounds potentially, you know, problematic for public safety. But that's all right. It was good fun. April 1st is done. We are April 2nd here at the Y Refi Studios. It's our new partner in the studio, Y Refi Studios. Check them out. We've got lots of news to get to and we've got a jam packed first hour. We've got two guests in the second half of the hour. So I want to get to the news right now. So there's multiple things swirling that I think all could be the lead if we wanted to. First of which is Trump gave a speech last night giving an update on the Iran war. Now a lot of people said, well, he didn't really make any news. I actually disagree. I think what was most interesting about the speech was what wasn't said. Let's play some of his clips and kind of get the tone, set the stage and I'll explain what I mean

[Donald Trump]

Sat 6 thanks to the progress we've made, I can say tonight that we are on track to complete all of America's military objectives shortly, very shortly. We are going to hit them extremely hard over the next two to three weeks. We're going to bring them back to the Stone Ages where they belong. In the meantime, discussions are ongoing.

[Andrew Colvett]

All right, so he gives a timeline, two to three weeks. We've heard that before. Sometimes it goes back and forth. President Trump is definitely reserving the right here to define what he sees as victory. The question, though, has remained what to do with the straight of Hormuz. And I think that's where we're starting to get the most clarity here.

[Donald Trump]

Sat 7 to those countries that can't get fuel, many of which refuse to get involved in the decapitation of Iran. We had to do it ourselves. I have a suggestion. Number one, buy oil from the United States of America. We have plenty. We have so much. And number two, build up some delayed courage. Should have done it before. Should have done it with us. As we asked. Go to the strait and just take it, protect it, use it for yourselves. Iran has been essentially decimated. The hard part is done.

[Andrew Colvett]

So President Trump is sending a very clear signal to, I would say France, England, Italy. That's what that was directed to. Because in another clip, he sort of gives a shout out to some of the Middle Eastern allies here that I think have met the moment in his eyes. More Sat 3 so I want to

[Donald Trump]

thank our allies in the Middle East, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the uae, Kuwait and Bahrain. They've been great, and we will not let them get hurt or fail in any way, shape or form.

[Andrew Colvett]

All right, so I'm going to translate this because Blake's team, he didn't say much. Here's what I'm going to say. Message is clear. The US Is winning. It's shy of we've officially won, though. All right. And I think that's consistent with some of the messaging we've heard. He's got strong words for NATO, the NATO countries that are dependent on energy flowing through the Strait of Hormuz. He's now telling them that it's your responsibility in the long run to keep the strait open, not his job. We have enough oil. Okay. We could talk about the implications of what that means. He did not, and this is a key, he did not mention ground troops, as some media outlets had been reporting he would do in this speech. The fact that there was not a ground invasion announced last night was a big, big deal. Trump did not mention Kurdish forces, as other media outlets had predicted. The war's not over. But that was about as close as you could get to President Trump spiking the football as you could get without doing it. So we're 32 days in and a little bit TBD on how many more weeks we have ahead of us. So what this was was President Trump defining his right to define what victory looks like and define when he is going to determine that the missional objectives have been achieved. So that's what that speech was. He was defining the Strait of Hormuz. What's the future there. He was defining who he thinks have been good allies and who have been bad allies. We've heard reports that President Trump and Marco Rubio are going to be reassessing our relationship to NATO after Epic Fury concludes and it's almost done. That's what was really, I think, front and center here. He wants to be able to say, this is what victory looks like. Our mission is achieved. We're out straight a Hormuz or not.

[Blake]

I think that if he wants to get a win for ending the war, the way to do that is to end the war.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yep, that's, I think, what he's saying.

[Blake]

Yeah, but I guess what I was telling with you is it was essentially what we've already heard on Truth Social. In fact, they made the point, the White House made the point, that he's been repeating the same thing. The goals are sink their fleet, destroy their missile capability, keep them from having a nuclear weapon. And he emphasized that in the speech last night. But it's the same message. And the reason it mattered that the President was giving a speech is people were wondering if it was going to mark a big announcement. And in fact, it didn't either way. So if he says the war is nearly done, that is great. If the war is, in fact nearly done. But we've been saying the war is nearly done since the Ayatollah was blown up.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, well, listen, I agree, but again, he said four to six weeks. We're four weeks in. He did not mention ground troops. I think that's a huge, huge thing to take note of. He basically said, listen, we're basically wrapping up the job. And if you want the straight cleared Europe, who relies on this energy, we don't rely on it. It's up to you to make it clear. Okay? And that's a big deal because he's wiping his hands of the responsibility. I think the larger implications of this are going to be our relationship to NATO moving forward our relationship to countries like Italy, Spain that weren't letting us use their bases to launch strikes. And you saw it in that clip from President Trump where he said maybe you could get some delayed courage, do the right thing now. Go support your own country's economy by clearing the strait. I mean, I get the whole dynamic. The NATO question is going to be looming large in the years and months and years to come. So I think we have to be clear eyed about what that means. I think there is. NATO can be absolutely a force for good, but they really, there is an antagonism that has developed between the United States and our European allies that we can't. We just have to be clear eyed about it and open about it because it's out in the open now.

[Blake]

Well, the funny, the funniest thing about it is it does actually take you back to when President Trump wanted to buy Greenland. The fact that all of these NATO allies are now denying the US Access to their airspace and air bases does drive home the point as why it matters sometimes to have your own airspace and your own air bases on your own land.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Blake]

So it is very interesting. It's one thing for them to not join the fact that they've even denied the air bases after we've spent billions of dollars. I can understand why President Trump is very angry with them.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, I can too. And you gotta, at some point you gotta say, what are we getting out of this relationship? I don't think that even if we pull out of NATO, which I don't think is going to happen, but even if we did that, it's, it doesn't instantly mean that we're at each other's throats with Europe. It doesn't. It could mean something else. And maybe this would force Europe to stop being fake and phony. Countries that think they have strong militaries when really they're just relying on the US Military might. I'm open minded. I'm going to be really honest. I don't fear the world order sort of shifting and evolving over time. All right, so the other big news here is that rumors are circulating around D.C. at the moment that Pam Bondi and Tulsi Gabbard could be on their way out. It's being reported by Semaphore. It is, which is Shelby Talcott. She's a serious reporter. So I would say don't take it too lightly. She says news. The President has informed Pam Bondi that her time as AG is nearing an end. Multiple sources tell me Formal announcement hasn't yet come, AKA all the normal caveats that he could change his mind. He's been speaking with advisors on a possible replacement recent days, as others have reported this week, and Bondi is aware of that as well. Blake, the timing has been brought into question, right, because the big controversy with Pam Bondi was over the Epstein Binders.

[Blake]

We had. Yeah, the Epstein Binders, the Epstein files, kind of. She's become the punching bag for everyone who's dissatisfied with how the administration handled that a bit, along with Cash Patel, but mostly Bondi. When we did at Amfest, we did a survey of the approval of all of Trump's cabinet members, and basically all of them were really high, except Bondi. I think Bondi had 25% disapproval. Even higher. She was, I think she was the only one in double digits even of disapproval. And I think that's a real cohort of maga. In fact, I'd appreciate emails how you guys feel about this freedom. Kirk.com I think people have also projected onto her frustration that there's a lot of people who just, they want. They want Foushee indicted, they want members of the Deep State indicted, they want various Democrats indicted. And there's been a few attempts at that. They haven't fared great in court. Some of them have also failed at the grand jury level. But the point is, is she's not delivering scalps that a lot of MAGA supporters wanted, and she's a very easy person to blame for all of that.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, there is a lot of activity in South Florida. You know, we saw the one subpoena of James Comey. I'm told there's a lot more coming there. So perhaps, you know, they're, you know, waiting is really hard when it comes to this stuff. I think there's a huge chunk of MAGA that just is not going to be satisfied until Anthony Fauci is, you know, arrested and shackled and that sort of thing. I think it's a very, very hard job. I just want to be very clear. The job that Pam Bondi has is very difficult. So I want to give some, at least a dose of grace. Right. If we had, if we had Mike Davis on, he would probably be very supportive of her efforts thus far, but nonetheless wanted you guys to be aware, Pam Bondi is. It's rumored that she is possibly or even probably on her way out. Want to know your thoughts? Freedomarliekirk.com Send us your thoughts on Pam Bondi. The other rumor mill is over Tulsi Gabbard this goes back to her congressional testimony. There was some feelings that she did not defend the President, I guess vocally enough when it came to the Iran strikes, I thought she threaded the needle. Obviously, we're very aware that Tulsi Gabbard is a non interventionist. That's kind of been her brand for a long time. When she called, when she called Hillary Clinton the queen of warmongers. And I think it's fun.

[Blake]

It would have just. She could say something else and then people would say she's just lying through her teeth. There's just no way to win. They trot her out there in order to create this drama.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, I'm less certain about this one. I think Tulsi Gabbard, from everything I've heard, has been doing a great job. That being said, it's the President's decision to make. So those are the two rumor mill pieces going around. A lot of people saying they've been hearing similar things. Again, I would put Tulsi in a less confident position about what's her future. But Pam Bondi, these are real news reports. Semaphore. Shelby Talcott is a serious reporter. She's got multiple sources that have confirmed that. So Pam Bondi very well could be nearing the end of her tenure in the Trump administration.

[Blake]

So let us know what you think of that.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, the other big news, because there's a lot to get to, was that they have reached a deal. The Senate and the House have come to terms on funding dhs. And so the plan ahead. Mike Johnson did a whole comment on it, saying that at first he said that it was a joke. The proposal was a joke. They were. The deal was reached that they were going to fund DHS with the exception of ICE and Customs and Border Patrol. But they weren't. The Democrats weren't getting any of the concessions. Speaker or Speaker Johnson did not like this at first. Said it was a joke. He's now changed his position. They are going to pass full DHS funding minus the Border Patrol and ice. They're going to include that in a July reconciliation bill. Fund them additionally there. What is important to understand is that ICE and CBP are already funded mostly through the one big beautiful bill. So their paychecks have continued, their work has continued. And the upshot. So if you're saying what do we get out of this? Is it a complete fold or not? I happen to not like it. But the upshot here is that they will not getting any of the concessions that the Democrats wanted. The Democrats wanted no masks. They wanted some other areas of enforcement to be off limits. They basically wanted to hamstring, ice and customs and border patrol. So the silver lining here is that they get none of those concessions. Mass deportations will continue on, the enforcement will continue, which is very popular with the base. They'll just have to fund them in the reconciliation bill, which will be another fight. Which will be another fight. I don't think that we should ever get into this process of saying hey, we're gonna fund this agency, but not this, this and this. Because then it just becomes a race to the bottom of using leverage points against again.

[Blake]

It's just truly despicable. It's this plan to try to. The ultimate goal here is to prevent the enforcement of American law to enable the unlimited invasion of America by foreigners, including foreign criminals, including foreign gangsters, including foreign spies. There is no limiting principle for the left. And to do this, they are just going to randomly hurt Americans. It's the. Honestly, it's the government equivalent of like a school shooting. Just hurt random people in order to get what we want, which is also an evil thing. Despicable people.

[Andrew Colvett]

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[Jay Towne]

It's an honor to be with you. And before we get into our chat, let me just say that, like the tens of millions of households that grieved when Charlie was shot, it's really an honor to be here. My house was no different. It's an honor to be with you today.

[Andrew Colvett]

Thank you for saying that. And, yeah, it means a lot. It still does. So thank you for saying that does. I wanted to have you on, Jay, because I was told you are one of the leading experts in the country when it comes to litigating in the court of law, violent crime, understanding the way motions work from the defense and the prosecution, and all this. Obviously, a lot of news and noise was made when the Daily Mail dropped that headline. And it was reporting on the brief from the prosecutor, Tyler, or the defense attorney for Tyler Robinson, where it said the bullets did not match. And you have some insight here to help us understand how to make more sense of this. I think we did a great job the day after this story launched, but I'm not done with it because I'm still upset about it.

[Blake]

You need to hit this. This was such a dishonest headline by the Daily Mail and it was run with. By other dishonest people.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. You have a lot of experience in this. We don't have a lot of time with you. What did you make of the headline and the underlying evidence?

[Jay Towne]

Yeah. Nowhere in any report, in any reporting either from the government, the atf, or any of the filings from the state of Utah does it say anything. Does not match. And my. I spent most of my adult life prosecuting violent crimes. That includes homicides. Most of those homicides involve firearms. So ATF ballistics reports, what we call firearms and tool marking reports. I've seen hundreds of them. And I can tell you that when it says unable to identify, which is all the report says, that does not equal, nor is that term the equivalent of does not match. Unable to identify is describing the rifling characteristics on the fragmented round that was found in Charlie Kirk's body and what that means. So inside of every long gun in the barrel, there's. There's. You see those little stripes that's rifling? Those impressions are made upon the round when it is fired. And because of the way it tumbles sometimes when it hits A. A person or a wall or whatever it might be. They're unable at atf, the forensic experts, and they are the absolute best in the world at this through their NIBIN system and through their correlation system of, of finding out, even if there's just a little bit whether or not the rifling matches the actual rifle. But what. There's two things in every firearm and tool mark report. The rifling, which they were unable to identify it because it was so degraded. The round that was found, but also the caliber class of that, of that round, which is almost always determinable. Now what that is is the, the, the projectile, it's round at the base and the diameter of that is the class of the caliber. Now the rifle that we found was a.30 06 which fires a.30 caliber class round. And what was missing from the defense counsel's motion in his mouth or her mouth rather, is what caliber class that round was. I will bet all the money in my pocket against all the money in yours, Andrew, that the ATF report describes this round as a.30 caliber class round. There's only a couple of rifles that, that fire that type of round. If it was a.22, let's say caliber class, which would be a 5.56 or 223 round. So like an M16. That would have been what they led with because it couldn't have been the.30 06. It doesn't fire a.223 or a 5.

[Andrew Colvett]

So J. Yeah, yeah, let's, let's pick at that.

[Blake]

So you're saying really what we need to look at is not so much what the defense says, it's what they're not saying.

[Andrew Colvett]

It's the dog that didn't bark here.

[Jay Towne]

That's. That's exactly right. And it's. An in. The defense lawyer knows that the defense lawyer with this motion, they're buying time. Someone who's tried capital murders. I can tell you that, you know, time is your friend. The longer these things drag out for the family, for the state, for the witnesses, the, the better your case as a defendant gets. Now I will say there is a mountain. I. Before coming on the show today, I reread the indictment against Tyler Robinson. There is just in that and there's. I would, I would suggest to everyone that there is another mountain of evidence that has not been disclosed and is not public yet. Like for instance, that this is a.30 caliber class round that was found in Charlie Kirk. But there is a mountain of evidence. Admissions from Tyler Robinson to his roommate to his Mother to his father. There's a piece of paper with an admission on it where he texted his roommate to look under the keyboard. His DNA is on the spent cartridge. Remember, there was one shot fired and there was no shell casing found at the scene. That suggests a bolt action rifle. You know what was found also at the scene? A.30 06 Mauser.98 bolt action rifle. His DNA is on that rifle. All the spent rounds or the one spent round, Two of the three shell cartridges. There's CCTV footage showing his ingress and egress to his firing spot on the roof. And guess who recognized him? His mother and his father. There's not another shooter, there's not another gun. There's not another person culpable or guilty of the murder of Charlie Kirk. It's Tyler Robinson. He's sitting in a Utah jail awaiting trial right now.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, I mean, I just. What your insight here is, I think really important, Jay, that it's what the defense did not say in that motion. They did not contend the caliber of the round, which is something that's a huge, huge. And I didn't even have eyes to see that. I needed to look for that. You saw that because you've read so many of these motions over the years and read so many of these ATF reports that you instantly knew that if they had, if the defense knew that it was a different round based on the ATF report, which we haven't read, that they would have led with that. That would have been their first point that they made in that motion. They didn't. Which means they sort of by omission, admitting that it's a.30 caliber.

[Jay Towne]

Absolutely by omission. It is, as you said, it's by what they did not say. And the reason they didn't say it is because they know that that is in the report. It would be otherwise very, very useful exculpatory evidence. But since it is in the report, it direct, to use their, the, the media's term anyway, by the way, unable to identify and does not match, once again, do not mean the same thing. But it wouldn't match if it was a.22 caliber. But you know what it does, because it's a.30 caliber. And I'll tell you this too. I can't tell you how many murders I've prosecuted or assaults involving a firearm where we couldn't identify the rifling because the round was so degraded that we were able to examine. It's very common. The. Like I said, the ATF is the absolute best in the world at identifying rifling characteristics and also examining for the caliber class. And they always get it right. And so the defense lawyer mentioned that they might use the ATF report as exculpatory. Go ahead, knock yourself out. Because we'll throw an expert on the stand, we being the good guys that says, no, this, this is the exact type of round that is used in that Mauser.98 bolt action.30 06 rifle. It's the same kind. And how many rounds were fired? 1. How many spent shell casings were found? 1. Was his DNA on that spent showcasing? Yes. I mean, it is overwhelming evidence and his intent is overwhelming too, that he intended to kill Charlie Kirk that, that fateful day.

[Andrew Colvett]

Why would the defense want to drag this out? Dive into that more? You said that's their goal is really to like delay. Are they trying to spread conspiracy? They must be aware of the conspiracy culture that's emerged. Are they trying to play into that to potentially taint the jury? Is that, would that be a motive that you could divine from this?

[Jay Towne]

Sure. I mean, so part of it is the delay, you know, because, okay, we need our expert now and that's gonna take six months to a year. And this is all to drag it out? That's part of it. I don't. I mean, the trial date could get moved obviously and onward and so forth. But they're aware of the conspiracy theorists, the whack jobs that are on the Internet and even in, you know, print media with a headline that says does not match. That was all over. It was USA Today. It was others. They were just wrong. As dishonest as it is, they were all. It's just actual factually and forensically incorrect to make that statement that it does not match. It shows how little the left knows or the people twisting their mustache know about firearms. Right? Especially about firearms and tool marking tests that the ATF provides. So I'm sure they're willing to. You know, my experience is they're absolutely willing to taint the juuling jury pool with this. This sort of cast of little bits of doubt here and there so that you know that when 12 people are sitting in the box, it actually might go their way with one of those people. But as soon as it comes out, hopefully the state will file something soon that will mention the.30 caliber class

[Andrew Colvett]

of

[Jay Towne]

this particular fragmented round so that we can. You can have me back on and you'll owe me all the money in your pocket, Andrew, because I will.

[Andrew Colvett]

I'm not betting against you, Jay.

[Jay Towne]

The ATF will have been proven correct and also the professionals that they are.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. Jay, thank you so much for. I think that was such an important insight. And again, we're not rushing a judgment here. We want the legal process to play out. This is the system we have. And I fully expect Tyler Robinson's defense to mount a rigorous defense. That's what they're supposed to do. So, J Town, thank you so much. This was great. Really, really important insight. And we will have you back on. You have quite the resume. Thank you, sir.

[Jay Towne]

Thank you.

[Andrew Colvett]

Hi, folks. Andrew Colvett here. I'd like to tell you about my friends over at why Refi. You've probably been hearing me talk about why Refi? For some time now. We are all in with these guys. If you or someone you know is struggling with private student loan debt, you take my advice and give them a call. Maybe you're behind on your payments, maybe you're even in default. You don't have to live in this nightmare anymore. Why Refi will provide you a custom payment based on your ability to pay. They tailor each loan individually. They can save you thousands of dollars and you can get your life back. We go to campuses all over America and we see student after student who's drowning in private student loan debt. Many of them don't even know how much they owe. Yrefi can help. Just go to yrefi.com that's the letter Y. Then refi.com and remember why Refi doesn't care what your credit score is. Just go to yrefi.com and tell them your friend Andrew sent you. We have some breaking news here really quick. Fox is reporting that Pam Bondi has already been fired as Attorney General. Cabinet official teed up as replacement. According to sources, EPA Director Lee Zeldin is reportedly being considered as Bondi's replacement after a White House meeting Tuesday. So that's.

[Blake]

That's break. We got about 40 emails in five minutes. I think just after we asked more than people thought. Yeah, dozens just filled up the entire Gmail screen. So clearly inspired a lot of passion. We know a lot of people and I couldn't read all of them, but it looks like a lot of people did want Bondi to go.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. All right, our next guest is ready. I want to get to it. Scott Kupor. He's the Office of Personnel Management director and they have a big new initiative. It feels very central to the mission of this show and to the mission of Turning Point, so I wanted to make some time. Scott, welcome to the Charlie Kirk Show.

[Scott Kupor]

Hey, thanks for having me. Really great to be here.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. So you guys have this huge new initiative at the Office of Personnel Management hiring Gen Z. And I think it's absolutely the right message to send. So tell us about this please.

[Scott Kupor]

Yeah, and we're thankful to have the opportunity to talk to you about it because obviously you all are the leaders here in terms of this audience. So let me just give you the background real fast. So about 7% of the federal workforce is under the age of 30. And if you look at the workforce more generally, that's about 22, 23%. So by a factor of about three to one, you know, the very simple way to say it is the federal government has done a very poor job of attracting kind of young people to decide to spend some time and you know, commit some public service and do some good for the country. So what we've done is launched a new program where we're coordinating with all the agencies across government and we've put out a call, a centralized call for anybody who is interested in. We're starting with five career areas, so technology roles, human resources, financial services, program management, and then contracting and procurement. These are jobs that are kind of well distributed across all the agencies in government. And we're about to kick off a very broad recruiting effort. And you know, your leadership here is fantastic. In fact, you may know this, but we're going to actually have a presence tonight at the event that you're hosting at George Washington University at 6:30 tonight. So for anybody who's in the D.C. area and is interested in being patriotic and helping support the government and all the wonderful work that we're doing, please come see us.

[Andrew Colvett]

Well, this is amazing. So I think. I don't know what the rules are, so I'm not trying to break any rules, but I would love to get you a bunch of graduating seniors, their CVs over to the Office of Personnel Management. I think this is amazing and I'm

[Scott Kupor]

sure you send them to us and we'll take care of them.

[Andrew Colvett]

Hey listen, they gotta, they got to meet the mark just like everybody else. Of course they got to have excellence and merit and all that. I'm not asking for special favors, but I know a bunch of graduating seniors that I'm sure would be looking for some jobs and could be a great fit for this administration. So that's amazing. Go over, drill down just a little bit further in the areas that you're looking for to fill these positions. And any idea of how many positions we're looking to because obviously, I'll be honest, I'm a little bit biased. I want to see the federal workforce numbers decrease as, as, as do, as

[Scott Kupor]

do I, by the way. As do I. Yeah, sorry. But let me, let me give you

[Andrew Colvett]

perspective though on that needle. Yeah, yeah.

[Scott Kupor]

All right, let me frame it here to make sure you don't think we're going crazy. So I mentioned that only 7% of the workforce today is under the age of 30. And that's, you know, well under, under indexed. On the other side of the federal workforce, close to half of our population is over the age of 50 and so we'll likely recover, retire over the next 5, 10, 15 years. So while I, I agree with you, I'm a small government, but I think we're pro, I'm probably not a no government person. So we actually will need some people to do the jobs of the American people. So part of this is we've got to solve this Democrat demographic imbalance problem. Right? We just have a pending problem that we got to solve. The second thing we're trying to solve here is, look, we just need people who've got skills that are representative in, you know, kind of this generation of talent. So I'll give you an example. On the technology side, there's a tremendous amount of modernization efforts that we're doing in government. So we launched something called Techforce Fairly recently. And TechForce is part of this early career program, but it's specific to obviously technology jobs. And we need people who understand modern software development, who understand AI technologies, who understand data science. Those are specific areas where quite frankly, that skill gap is preventing the government from being able to do the things that we need to do to modernize. And look, as you well know, modernization is the key towards efficiency. So if we actually modernize and use technology where appropriate, then we will have a much more efficient government that will able to actually do the work of the American people without quite frankly bankrupting my kids or grandkids and certainly the generation that I know you talk to quite a bit. So that's one big area is technology. The other area is there's a bunch of jobs that just lend themselves well to people who need to be trained. So there are a ton of HR related jobs in governments and human resources. There's a ton of financial analyst jobs. And these are all roles where, you know, we can take people who are smart people. Many of them are coming out of college and by the way, you mentioned college. I just want to make sure you understand it's okay if people don't go to college. So one of the things that this administration is doing is we're eliminating college degree requirements for almost every job classification. Because in our mind, look, we want to hire people for the skills and the merit they have. And you know, it's great if they went to college, but by the way, if they're incredibly skillful and they know what they're doing and they can perform the jobs we need, we shouldn't discriminate against them because maybe they don't have the financial means to go to college or that just didn't factor into their life plans. So these are all kind of priorities we're working on.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, or like Senator Mark Wayne Mullen, his father dies and he takes over the plumbing business and blows it into a multimillion dollar business. And he's an entrepreneur. We need more of that as well. So we'll add graduating high school seniors to the CVs if they're not planning on going.

[Blake]

I want to really guess to any young people out there, you should strongly look into applying for this because what do we all complain about as conservatives? We complain about the fact the deep state, the government, it's full of left wing career bureaucrats who are extremely difficult to dig out. And the way that you fix that is actually we get young people who have pro American values who are not left wing barnacles. You get them into government and then that is how you allow this country to perpetuate into the decades in the future. Because as we know, once you get into government, it's hard to get you out.

[Andrew Colvett]

And so you want job security. Here you go.

[Scott Kupor]

We're working on that one too, by the way.

[Andrew Colvett]

We're working on that one. Fair enough. So I would just say, you know what? D.C. votes about 95,5 Democrat. Well, let's get some turning point grads in there and make it like 90, 10, 85, 15. I'm gonna end it here, Scott, with your guys. Beautiful ad that you made for this Sat 8.

[Office of Personnel Management Ad Voice]

Every day Americans wake up and go to work building, protecting and shaping a better future. It's our rich legacy. Since the founding of our republic, service has been part of who we are. In uniform or out. Americans always rise above. For country, for community, for each other. Through 250 years, when duty has called, Americans have answered loudly. Now it's your turn. Today more than ever, our government needs its best and brightest problem solvers, innovators and leaders to serve. Those opportunities are here. Serve your country, build your career, make an impact. That matters. Your country Is calling start your mission today.

[Andrew Colvett]

Scott, beautiful piece. Thank you for coming on. For a lot of Americans, the health care system is reactive. You get sick first and then you wait for an appointment. Then insurance decides what you're allowed to have and suddenly the medication you need is delayed or it's not available. That is where all family pharmacy is different. This is not a typical pharmacy. It's family owned. I know these guys, they're great guys. Works with licensed doctors and is built around a simple idea. That's the idea that you should have the freedom to make informed choices about your own health and the ability to prepare ahead of time. So you're not reactive anymore. You're already prepared.

[Charlie Kirk]

You do not need insurance, you don't need to beg a doctor. Just simple, fast, honest care. This is what healthcare should look like in America with you in control.

[Andrew Colvett]

With all family pharmacy, you can order prescription medications before you get sick, keep them at home and have them ready when you need them most. Everything is done online. A licensed doctor reviews your request and your medication ships straight to your door. They offer antibiotics, antivirals, Tamiflu, Ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, mebenzadol, methylene blue, and even your daily maintenance medications. This is about access, preparation and personal responsibility. Choose freedom. Choose the right pharmacy. Go to allfamilypharmacy.com Kirk use code Kirk10 to save 10% on your next order. That's allfamilypharmacy.com kirk. We have Dr. Gad Saad for the entire hour and he is one of my favorite public intellectuals. He was one of Charlie's favorite public intellectuals. He has so much insight to bring to bear that we needed a whole hour. So without further ado, welcome back to the show, Dr.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Sad, what a lovely introduction. Thank you. And I just posted on X, but it's worth maybe repeating here live that today is the first day of Passover and I thought it was particularly apropos to take this high Jewish holiday and come on the show to honor Charlie. Charlie, you live on in our hearts and minds.

[Andrew Colvett]

Amen. Yeah, we actually played a clip and it'll air tomorrow actually. But just Charlie reflecting on how Easter and Passover always overlap and what an important season this is for Christians and Jews. So it's great to have you, sir. There's so much suicidal empathy going on. Let me give you your proper dues here. Dr. Gadsad, you are the scholar at the Declaration of Independence center for the Study of American Freedom. For a Lebanese born man that is quite the jump. But you do love this country. You love American freedom, you love the west. And that's at the University of Mississippi. You are also, you have a forthcoming book, the Suicidal Empathy. And I just love the COVID If you guys could throw this up. Yeah, you got the sheep on there. Free the wolves, dying to be kind. It's kind of the, it's kind of a take on the, I guess the Chick Fil a where they're always trying to say the cow take. Eat the cows anyways. So this is actually. It's a cow saying eat more chicken anyways. But it's a great cover there. And we've been hearing about you writing this book for some time. So when does it come out? So people can pre order. Let's just start there.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Dr. Saad, thank you so much. May 12, 2026. So in about six weeks. But if I can just engage in some shameless plugging. It's really important if you can actually pre order the book because what happens is that all the amass pre orders, then when the book is released, they all count as sales on that first day. So if the book can immediately hit the bestseller list, then that becomes an avalanche. So please, if you're interested in this topic, go out and pre order it asap.

[Andrew Colvett]

So there are. Yeah, go buy the book. It's really important. I think it is the key to understanding the future of the West. Are we going to survive as we currently are constructed, as we currently understand ourselves, or are we going to commit cultural suicide? I think the first topic. There's so many to get to. There's Islamification, there's energy policy, there's cultural issues, spiritual issues.

[Blake]

I think Islamification's gotta be the first.

[Andrew Colvett]

Well, hold on. I mean, we'll get there. Cause we have to get there. Cause just because of his own biography, Dr. Saad's biography out of Lebanon and what's happened in that country. But I have to start with my personal pet favorite, which is birthright citizenship, which I believe is a suicide pact that a country would make, especially in this day and age of air travel, that the founders and the drafters of the 14th Amendment would have never conceived. They couldn't have conceived of jets that can fly from South Africa direct to Los Angeles. They wouldn't have. But here's the thing. It is a suicide pact, a Trojan horse where we now have to our own laws bind us to our own Constitution, binds us to letting in CCP spies that can then determine an election if they get millions of voters that Live in China, but can vote in America. Why strike us militarily if we just are letting them in the front door? What is your take on birthright?

[Dr. Gad Saad]

I mean, I couldn't agree with you more. Of course, the old maxim, demography is destiny, is exactly what you're alluding to. And to your earlier point, when you kindly introduced me as a scholar at Ole Miss and you said, you know, here's the Lebanese guy who's defending American freedoms, the American spirit is enshrined within the DNA of our value systems. Right. It's not the fact that you're born in the United States through, you know, the birthright nonsense that makes you American. It's whether you've internalized a set of values and of codes that uniquely defines American exceptionalism. And so even though I'm not born in the United States, even though I'm officially now Canadian, I venture to say that I'm a lot more of an American than people who just come to the US Plop down a kid, and then, voila, he becomes American. So I couldn't be more in agreement with you. And the quicker that they. They, meaning the United States, changes that law, the better it will be for everyone.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah, and I try not to do this, but I did just tweet out something that I think is central. I didn't come up with this idea, but we had Molly Hemingway and Sean Davis from the Federalists, and we were talking with them, and I just said, no great nation would allow a loophole that allows communist birth tourists to vote in its election and bestow citizenship on the children of those who broke the nation's law to enter the country in the first place. No great nation would allow themselves to get played like that. And I just. The fact that the legal scholars are telling me it's probably gonna go 7:2 against getting rid of this ridiculous policy that the entire rest of the world seemed to have gotten rid of by about 2005. It breaks my heart because I feel grieved internally that we would be so dumb, that we would be so hamstrung by idiocy. You know, at least the Greeks, when they were letting in the Trojan horse, they didn't know what was inside of it. We know what's inside of this Trojan horse.

[Blake]

And I had my own take, which is really the bleak thing. If the Supreme Court rules that way, we don't know the full law. Maybe there's some dumb reason they can justify it, but, okay, it should be pretty simple to change the law, to have a Congress that says, oh, Chinese oligarchs don't get to just buy kids from America and their citizens. Tourists can't just, say, sail a boat 10 miles offshore, drop a kid on that boat, and they're a citizen for life. Like, that's an absurd thing, and our Congress should be ready to ban it. And I think this gets back to your big point. It's suicidal empathy that makes us refuse to do this obvious thing.

[Scott Kupor]

Yeah, indeed.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

And if.

[Scott Kupor]

I'm sorry.

[Andrew Colvett]

Go ahead.

[Scott Kupor]

Go ahead.

[Andrew Colvett]

No, go ahead, doctor.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

I was gonna say.

[Scott Kupor]

And I don't.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Maybe you're not ready to segue into the Islam issue, but it really is relevant to what we're talking about here, where you sort of become impotent to implement, you know, autocorrective mechanisms that are complete common sense. Right. So I often hear from esteemed American lawyers, hey, Professor Saad, Dr. Saad, I completely get your story with Islam, but, you know, unfortunately, we have freedom of religion here. And I say, really? So you actually think that there is no mechanism that you could come up with that would then autocorrect the fact that not all religions are equally congruent with the foundational ethos of the United States. Right. So. And I often do this satirical, you know, dialogue where I say, you know, some. Some guy, some immigrant from that region says, I want to kill you. I want to rape you. I want to destroy your heritage. I want to destroy your religion. I want to destroy your culture. And then some. Some American lawyer says, hey, you're not allowed to say that. That's incitement to violence. And then the noble immigrant response, no, but that's in my religion. I have freedom of religion. Oh, okay. Sorry. Carry on. So it really is an astounding form of impotent, suicidal empathy to say that we are somehow hamstrung, as you said, by these codes that could never be. They're inerrant, and they can never be changed. And if it has to be that we commit civilizational seppuku, so be it.

[Andrew Colvett]

Jeez, the way he said it, yeah. It feels like we get stuck in these ideological cul de sacs because of the myths that we've told ourselves. One of the myths, I believe, is that we are a nation of immigrants, and I want to get into that history because we're actually a nation of settlers, in my opinion. You could disagree with me, Dr. Saad. That includes immigrants. Waves when it makes sense for us, and then we're able to stop it when it stops making sense for us. Dr. Said, for those who don't know your bio, just really quickly give it to give us your bio in about two minutes.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

So I was born in the 1960s in Lebanon. We were part of the last very small, dwindling group of Lebanese Jews that had steadfastly refused to leave Lebanon, perhaps wrongly so when the civil war broke out in 1975, it became impossible to be Jewish. So we ended up leaving Lebanon. Miraculously, we made it out of there on one of their return trips to Lebanon to deal with some of their business interests. My parents were kidnapped by Abu Nidal's group, Fatah. And so all of the things that you've seen since October 7th is stuff that is called my childhood. And eventually we made it to Canada. And then, of course, I went to study in the United States and never thought that I would be facing the Jew hatred that I now see on a daily basis all over the place. So that's sort of my personal history, my academic history. I've been a professor for 32 years. My main area is to apply evolutionary psychology to study human behavior in general and consumer behavior in particular. I realized very quickly that academia was laden with insane parasitic ideas. That's what led me to write the Parasitic Mind. But that book explained what happens to your mind when it is parasitized by ideological capture. Suicidal empathy completes the story by explaining what happens to your emotional system when it is hijacked. If I can hijack your thinking and feeling system, I own you.

[Andrew Colvett]

And, you know, I think that I did not know that about your parents, by the way. Dr. Said.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Oh, you didn't know that?

[Andrew Colvett]

No, I didn't. I didn't realize that. I knew that you had fled Lebanon for some reason. You ended up in Canada, which was, you know, which is unfortunate. I'm sorry, but. But if anybody's gonna understand the parasitic mind, it would be somebody who's lived in Canada in suicidal empathy. We played the clip yesterday on the show and just had so much fun with it of that. What's the name of the party? It's this far left party.

[Blake]

The New Democratic Party.

[Scott Kupor]

Yeah.

[Andrew Colvett]

And the Democratic Party talking about their equity cards and their point of personal privilege. I just. I couldn't, man. But Blake made a great point. It's laughable. It's cartoonish. It's fun to make fun of, but boy, oh, boy, is that serious stuff. It's serious stuff because it's one step away from Gen Z adopting a lot of that stuff and being mainstreamed in America too. All right, Dr. Sat, I'm gonna tell you what I believe. I think Blake agrees with me. But it's okay if you don't completely. If you go back through America's history, we had this huge immigration wave between the 1880s and about 1920. And they set the. In the 1920s, they had an immigration act with a quota system that was overturned by Hart celler in the 1960s. The people that fought in the 1920s for that immigration quota system did not consider America to be a nation of immigrants. It was a myth that was created after World War II to bring everybody together in this wave of Polish and Irish and Italian immigrants. But before that, they did not want this new wave of Eastern and Southern Europeans because they were too Catholic or the cultures, they weren't Anglo enough or whatever. We were a nation of settlers. And the people that warned then about this new wave of immigrants had a point because it then embedded this idea that we're a nation of immigrants and that we sort of have. What's the word, the expression, the blank slate, right? This blank slate of humanity. It doesn't matter if you're Muslim, it doesn't matter if you come from the Third World, you'll be an American just as a piece of paper. I hate this myth. I want to destroy this myth. And I'm saying it to a Lebanese man who I believe is like fully American at this point. So help me make sense of this. What are your thoughts on the history that we just went through?

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Well, I completely agree with you, actually. Look, in suicidal empathy, I talk about this classic categorization error that, frankly, if you have greater cognitive acuity than a three day old pigeon, you should be able to not be committing this error. And let me explain what it is. Your cat Fido is a feline. So is the wild lion in the jungle who would happily eat you. They're both called feline. The fact that they're both feline doesn't mean that. When I'm on a safari in Botswana and I see a feline, I say, oh, let me get out of my Jeep so I can cuddle with the wild lion because he's a feline just like the cat I have at home.

[Andrew Colvett]

So.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

But when you say all immigrants are equal in the way that the progressively suicidally empathetic people do, they're saying that there is no inherent differences between the values that might come with one set of immigrants versus another. And I will receive tons of hate mail, gentlemen, where people say, well, you are such a degenerate hypocrite. You are an immigrant. So is Your buddy Elon Musk. So you are immigrants who can come here, but Muhammad and Ahmed, who went to a summer camp in Afghanistan, can't also be perfectly nice Arkansas immigrants. But that's what the categorization error is, right? When you say all immigrants are equal, you're simply saying that once they become members of the host society, they're treated equally under the law. But the idea that we all come with the exact same baggage, to your point about the, the Latin term, by the way, for empty slate is tabula rasa. We're not tabula rasa. Right. So it's not surprising, for example, if you let in millions of people that come from societies where they've been surveyed and shown to have 95, 96% of those surveyed have endemic Jew hatred. So when these people come to the host societies, what do you think is going to happen? Is Jew hatred going to go up or going. Or it's gonna go down. And so all the politicians are scratching their head and saying, what's causing all this Jew hatred? Well, maybe because you've imported millions of people that have a genocidal hatred toward the Jews.

[Andrew Colvett]

Novel thought, novel thought. It's also, you know, what bothers me about this whole thing is I am sort of like a product of this tabula rasa ideology because I remember growing up being very much brainwashed into thinking that all everybody's the same and there is no differences. You know, we all was. You hear these things, like 99.85% of your DNA is the same as somebody. Nobody's arguing any of that. Everybody isn't made in the image and likeness of God. Everybody has dignity before the eyes of the Creator and equality in our laws. But it's also common sense, like once you break the, the parasite in the brain, like once you break through and you get red pilled or whatever you wanna call it, it's so frustrating how stupidly common sense this is. And this is one of the reasons why people are talking about MAGA and the coalition fracturing. I will always have respect for President Trump because of one thing. I have a lot of respect for President Trump. But one thing, he came down that golden escalator and he just started throwing bombs about stuff that was these pieties you were not allowed to address. He called dumb wars. Dumb wars. God bless him for that. Before that, we weren't allowed to talk about it. He called free trade. He said it was ripping off America and it was, you know, it was hollowing out our manufacturing base. He was right about that. These were pieties you were not allowed to address. And then he said, you know, he said, they're sending rapists and murderers over here. And I suppose some are nice people. You were not allowed to say that stuff. And I remember jumping for joy because at that point I'd become completely convinced, convinced our immigration policies were just insanity. Jumping for joy that he had the guts to say it. And that was the first step. One minute.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Oh, yeah. Let me just mention very quickly about the sort of the tabla rasa premise. The reason why that parasitic idea is so ubiquitous everywhere, so pervasive, is because it is rooted in a form of unicornia hope. Right? It is really nice for me as a prospective parent to think that when my child is born, he or she could be the next Lionel Messi, Michael Jordan, or Albert Einstein. It's nice to know that there are no, quote, innate individual differences in biological potentiality. Right? We could all be the next Michael Jordan if only we're hugged enough or not hugged enough. So the reason why these parasitic ideas work so well is because they cater to this fundamental unicornia optimism that most

[Andrew Colvett]

of us carry, especially in America. I will say this is why I think our foundational myths. It's the software that's running in the background of our brains that we think are these eternal truths, but actually they're myths. Like, America is a nation of immigrants. Well, we have immigrants, but we're actually a nation that was founded by settlers. Okay? That's a core myth that we have to deconstruct. And tablo rasa is another one.

[Blake]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[Blake]

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[Charlie Kirk]

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[Andrew Colvett]

All right Dr. Sad, we got this is the Charlie Kirk show. So we're gonna play the A clip from you and Charlie Sat 9 the

[Charlie Kirk]

Islam is all about power and leftism is all about power. Maybe that's also what they have in common.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Exactly. They both despise the West. So because we both despise the west, we will join in unison in trying to get rid of the West. But of course the leftists don't recognize that once Islam becomes ascendant, they will be decapitated just like the rest of us.

[Andrew Colvett]

Whoa, that is a quite decapitated.

[Blake]

That's why Charlie, like you, you had that frank way of talking. He liked to. He likes to quote I think you the the west. The Islam sees west as a woman to be.

[Andrew Colvett]

We have that clip yes, we have that clip. We should play it then.

[Blake]

Let's play that one.

[Andrew Colvett]

All right.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Ted, what would you said the west is a woman to be mounted. That is the Islamic creed. Remind us of it.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yes.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

I would repeatedly hear from Arabic speaking, Muslim speaking immigrants, in this case, it was always say that the west is a woman to be mounted. And what the reflex that that captures is that all of the virtues that we think as laudable in the west, compassion, magnanimity, generosity, empathy, are heard as weakness, weakness, weakness and weakness by cultures that don't necessarily share our infinite largesse. And so it's exactly what they're saying. West is weak, it's a woman. Therefore, really quick. So I'm going to share as relating to that clip something that just happened in Quebec, my home province. So there was a gentleman. You ready? Drum roll. His first name is Mohammed.

[Scott Kupor]

Yes.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

He was caught in many, many different clips, but the one that made it viral, he was caught on a clip where he had been stopped by a female police officer, Montreal police officer, interacting with her. And the things that he was saying are exactly like to the word when I said, you know, the west is a woman to be mounted. So I won't repeat it here, not to soil the ears of your listeners, but it's all about, I'm going to F this to you, I'm going to do f this to your mother, and so on and so forth. So that's the mindset, right? Might is right. Therefore, men in those cultures are the rulers of women. And therefore you could imagine what that implies. So they see the west as this feminized, weak, suicidally empathetic woman that deserves to be mounted as per this Muhammad guy being stopped by the female cop.

[Andrew Colvett]

So let's just import a few million more. That'd be great. Yeah, I think this all makes.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

And by the way, the way that you're able to justify that if you're a suicidally empathetic person, and maybe we'll get into this more in later segments, is that as long as those progressive folks can identify their neighbor Ahmad, who's a very sweet guy, who's gay, who's married to a Jewish man, and who eats prosciutto and drinks vodka, that is the true representation of Islam. So I only have to come up with one person who seems to fit in within Western liberties and voila, that becomes Islam. And all of those other things that also seem to be linked to Islam are false Islam. Ahmed, my neighbor, is the real Islam.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. And Charlie tried to navigate that dynamic by separating micro from macro. Right. We all know Muslims that are nice people, that are probably bad Muslims, though. That's the point. The Muslims that you like are probably bad Muslims and the Muslims that we all don't like are probably the ones that are reading this.

[Blake]

It's something I like to point out to Charlie and he listened to me on it. It's that sometimes people would say Islam needs a reformation, like the Protestant Reformation. And you have to tell them Islam did have a Reformation. It's the Salafism that you see. It's that in the 1800s they looked around and said, we're losing all these fights to the West. It must be because we got away from true Islam. Let's be super fundamentalist about it. And that's what gave us Islamic fundamentalism. It's not even stuff that's been around forever. It's. They got really intense about it in the last hundred, 150 years. And this is what we see.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Slightly more optimistic than the history that. I know you're making them seem as though they've been rough only for 100 years. A few people would like to remind you that this has been going on for 1400 years. But I understand the spirit of what you're saying.

[Andrew Colvett]

All right, Dr. Saad. There are so many areas in which suicidal empathy comes into play. Islamification is a huge one. And Blake has been doing. He's got two stories. We've got this Michigan guy and Birmingham,

[Blake]

a couple very symbolic ones in the last few days and I think they're both worthy of note. First is they have local elections are coming up in Britain. Charlie visited Britain last spring. He saw Arabic language, Arabic script on all the stores. It just felt very foreign. He felt it when he was in Oxford and Cambridge. And now Birmingham, not even a city he went to, but it's one of the most Islamified cities. And just for context, Birmingham is where the Industrial Revolution was born. It was the Silicon valley of the 1800s where so much innovation happened. Now, Islamified polling for the city council election in Birmingham. The number one party is going to be. It's not going to be a party. It's going to be an independent Islamist alliance Slate. They are favored to come in first place with 31 seats out of about. About 100, it looks like. And so there'll be Islamist party running the largest city in Britain. It's something we haven't seen in Britain since Muhammad came out of the desert. And the other story that's really compelling, there's a Democrat Senate contender in Michigan, he's running in the primary. And he said they got recording for him. In the recording of him in the Washington Free Beacon, he was telling voters he had to stay silent about the killing of the Ayatollah Khamenei because he says many of the Muslim voters he is interacting with in Dearborn, in that area around Detroit are, are very sad about the Ayatollah's demise. So he's going to remain silent on that issue. But they got that recording. So two very profoundly symbolic stories, I think, of what we've allowed to happen to this country. Dr. Saad and can I.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Those are great examples, of course, and they are part of something that I, if memory serves me right, I had mentioned the last time that Charlie and I spoke, which is there, there's been a, a blueprint that the Muslim Brotherhood, among other Islamic groups have been screaming for everybody to listen to from the top of the mountain. They said we're going to conquer the west by three means. And the third means is related to the two examples that you gave. So first, we're going to conquer the west through the womb of our women, Right. Two, we're going to conquer the west through hijra. Hijra is the Arabic word for migration. Even Muhammad did hijra from Mecca to Medina. And so of course, what does the west do? Say, hey, come on in, my brothers in the millions. And then the third way to your point, we're going to conquer the west by using your miserable freedoms against you. And so this is exactly what they're doing. And to your earlier point, Blake, when you said it's not always violent, right? In the 1400 years of history of Islamic, not everywhere that they went to, they just decapitated everybody, right? Sometimes it's that, sometimes it's by imposing very, very stringent rules on the non Muslims, forcing them to convert without putting the sword to their neck, sometimes it's just by letting demography take its natural toll. So there are many ways by which you can close your eyes and open your eyes and suddenly you went from zero Islam to 99.9% Islam. The problem comes from the fact that most people don't have the imagination to be able to extrapolate, right? So short of you being in Dearborn or in, you know, some areas in Minnesota, you think, well, come on, I live in Arkansas, I live in Washington State. I don't see a problem with Islam. Well, that's because the United States is a very, very large country. So it's going to take many hundreds of Years before you see Dearborn repeated everywhere. But if you allow it to happen, I will guarantee you, inshallah, that it will happen. The Birmingham folks are now finding out.

[Blake]

I mean, people are, as you say, really, they're not good at visualizing the numbers. I think often on an exchange I had when I was way out the Daily Caller, one of the first jobs I had, we had an employee who was from Britain, and this is 2014, 2015, and I'm already then raving about Islamization of the west, about Britain.

[Charlie Kirk]

And.

[Blake]

And one time he just got exasperated at me. He said, blake, why do you care about this so much when they're 1% of Britain? And I said, that's where you're wrong. It was probably 1% when you were a kid. And we looked it up and at that point it was already 5 or 6% of Britain and it was 10, 15% of London. And how much has it moved then in the decades since when they've kept moving in? They've had high birth rates. Britons haven't had high birth rates. If they're having four kids each and you're having one kid, that moves very fast in a single generation.

[Andrew Colvett]

Yeah. And if I could. Go ahead.

[Scott Kupor]

Sorry, go ahead.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

I was going to say, and I made this analogy with Piers Morgan, but apparently my logic was impenetrable to his mind. So take for example, diabetes. If I say, if I am your endocrinologist and I say, hey, sir, you have diabetes. And then imagine if the next day you wake up and say, look, it's been a day since I've had diabetes and nothing's happened to me, nobody's amputated my extremities. That physician must be an idiot because nothing's happened to me. Look at me. Well, what he's saying, he or she is saying is that there is a very known trajectory of what will happen to you in X number of time period if you don't manage your blood sugar level. It doesn't happen overnight. So that's exactly the issue with demography is destiny. Peter Hammond, by the way, I highly recommend that people check him out. He's a. He's a preacher, I think, out of South Africa. He wrote a book many years ago where he broke down what happens to a society. This is a historical analysis as a function of the percentage of Muslims that are in that society. 0 to 2%. Oh, they're just a lovely, peaceful, exotic community, you know, 3 to 5%. We start being more aggressive in our political engagement, but, you know, we're still kind of peaceful and you could perfectly trace what will exactly happen. So I can show you different countries, you know, France versus Australia versus Canada and we can put it into the Pete Hammond box to tell you exactly what's happening. But again that goes to the point of people are unable to extrapolate from time till to time. T plus N. If we don't solve this problem, we will wake up one day all being called Abdul.

[Andrew Colvett]

What? Dr. Saad, what's the. What would the Pete Hammond? Is that what you said his name was?

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Pete Hammond.

[Andrew Colvett]

What was the tipping point where they get really aggressive? 12%, 10%.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

So the aggressive in that you better start putting on running shoes and really run fast. It doesn't take much. By about 20% you're already getting into physical violence, right? So again that speaks to the fact that, you know, it didn't take 190 million terrorists to alter the New York City skyline, right? It didn't take 190,000, it took just 19. So the idea that you need, you know, all 2 billion Muslims to sign up for violent jihad for you before you wake up from your stupor and is really lacking in extrapolation, imagination.

[Andrew Colvett]

We're going to end the Islam talk here with a cut from Charlie Stop 15.

[Charlie Kirk]

Islamism has a tendency to take over and metastasize like a cancer. Immigration without assimilation is invasion and Islam does not assimilate. Islam conquers. Islam takes over. Islam devours. Islam is an imperialistic, parasitic ideology. Islam views itself as a conquering faith. You have to pray five times a day pointing towards a separate nation pledging fealty to another nation. Islam's own self story is that we will take you over. It's totalitarianism masked as a religion.

[Andrew Colvett]

Well said. It's one of my favorite CK rants about this topic. Hi folks, Andrew Colvett here. I'd like to tell you about my friends over at why Refi. You've probably been hearing me talk about why Refi? For some time now. We are all in with these guys. If you or someone you know is struggling with private student loan debt, take my advice and give them a call. Maybe you're behind on your payments, maybe you're even in default. You don't have to live in this nightmare anymore. Why Refi will provide you a custom payment based on your ability to pay. They tailor each loan individually. They can save you thousands of dollars and you can get your life back. We go to campuses all over America and we see student after student who's drowning in Private student loan debt. Many of them don't even know how much they owe. Yrefi can help. Just go to yrefi.com that's the letter Y. Then refi.com and remember why Refi doesn't care what your credit score is. Just go to yrefi.com and tell them you your friend Andrew sent you. All right, I want to break some news here. So it is official. Pam Bondi is out and it kind of will transition into the other way that suicidal empathy manifests, which is in our criminal justice system. So let's just go ahead and get Peter Doocy's reporting From Fox News, sat 16. Kayleigh, I just got off the phone with President Trump. We have a big scoop. Pam Bondi will soon leave her job as the Attorney General. She is going to get a different job within the administration. It doesn't sound like there is any bad blood between her and President Trump, but it does seem like they want her to go and do something else.

[Jay Towne]

And in an interim role, she will

[Andrew Colvett]

be replaced by Todd Blanche who is currently her deputy at the Justice Department. So President Trump is given a truth social here. Dr. Sad. He says Pam Bondi is a great American patriot and a loyal friend who faithfully served as my Attorney General over the past year. Pam did a tremendous job overseeing a massive crackdown in crime across our country with murders plummeting to their lowest level since 1900. I'm sure that would just that just happened. It was just a trend. We love Pam and she will be transitioning to a much needed and important new job in the private sector to be announced at a date in the near future. And our deputy Attorney general, the very talented and respected lawyer legal mind Todd Blanche, will step in to serve as acting Attorney General. Thank you for your attention to this matter, Blake. We reported it and it has come true once again. We did this with Kristi Noem, by the way. Same deal.

[Blake]

Well, I think we had an inside scoop on this one. This time our scoop was semaphore, but

[Andrew Colvett]

yeah, well, fair enough. The other one was a better call. Todd Blanch has tweeted as well. He says Pam Bondi led the department with strength and conviction and I'm grateful for her leadership and friendship. Thank you to President Trump for the trust and opportunity to serve as acting Attorney General. We will continue backing the blue, enforcing the law and doing everything in our power to keep America safe. Which ties in to this other. I saw this story, Dr. Sad, and I got enraged because I've seen people do this to Charlie as well, where people put up murals and then people take them down or they vandalize them. And it's so infuriating to watch. This is out of Providence, Rhode Island. A private business erected a mural to Irina Zarudska to memorialize her in her brutal murder on that, on that train in North Carolina by a repeat criminal who should have never been on the streets. And this mayor's trying to take it down in Providence.

[Blake]

SOP 14, you said the intent behind these murals is divisive and does not represent Providence. The murals artist sort of feels like he was stifled. Do you have any regrets about what

[Andrew Colvett]

you said in House, how you handled this?

[Providence Mayor]

I regret the state of where we are in politics today, where absolutely everything is political and controversial and hard. There's nothing we should be doing to take away from the tragedy of the loss of life that was represented here. But then it was distorted by an erroneous tweet by our president. And then a movement was funded by some right wing billionaires and it found its way to our community. A private owner a decided to put a mural up that I don't think he understood the full context of. And I was asked whether I thought it should come down. And I thought it should. It certainly wasn't bringing us together as a community. I don't think we're a stronger, more united community because of this mural. And I thought the best thing to do was to just take it down.

[Blake]

Dear God, that is like the perfect encapsulation of how the left behaves. They love to weaponize that utterly BS Unify our community. We need to heal. They never believe in that. If you wanted to believe in healing, there's a simple way to do it. You allow people to put up monuments for people they like so and arrest

[Andrew Colvett]

criminals that are killing people.

[Blake]

Arrest criminals. And if the left, you know, if they want to put up a statue of Cesar Chavez, you know, go for it. They love Cesar Chavez. And then allow us to memorialize the people that are murdered by left wingers, other national heroes. But they always love to say we need to heal while they're ripping down a statue of a founding father, while they're blotting out a mural of an innocent woman who was butchered. These are not statements of healing. These are not statements of unity. These are statements of domination. He can only visualize the world. For him, unity is just. I decide what you value, what you believe, what you see, and if you don't like it, shut up and get out of the way. He's Disgusting.

[Andrew Colvett]

That is a perfect embodiment of suicidal empathy. It's a weaponization of empathy. The floor is yours, doctor said.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Yeah, So I would say, though, I will address suicidal empathy as relating to soft on crime policies, but I'm sure that this mayor would have been first in line to hail a mural of George Floyd. That would unify, that would unify the community, but not this poor, beautiful Ukrainian immigrant. Okay, so let's link it to suicidal empathy. Suicidal empathy really has several manifestations, one of which is the hyperactivation of empathy. Right? But the other part of suicidal empathy is when we all have a fixed tank of empathy that we could met out. Now, evolution has endowed us with the capacity to strategically met out our empathy in biologically relevant ways. So if a bus is hurling down at my children or at some random strangers, notwithstanding that I would love to save everybody, I am much more likely to jump in front of the bus to protect my children. Right. Even though in a dream world everybody should be saved. What suicidal empathy does is it completely removes the correct targeting of who should be privy to your empathy. So a felon, I call them, by the way, blank slate felons. To our earlier point, talking about blank slate felons are born perfectly lovely and it's only society that has made them bad, especially if they are felons of color. So they've already been victimized by the white supremacy of the United States to now punish them when they've only been arrested 174 times. Shouldn't you be giving them a 175th second chance? And so it removes the personal agency of these felons so that all of our empathy is targeting the criminals and not the victims. But I'll add another twist to the criminality dimension of suicidal empathy. Suicidal empathy is so parasitic that even the victims of the crimes feel greater empathy to their felon who victimized them than to themselves. And I'll give you two quick examples. Example one, Norwegian man is sodomized by a Somali immigrant. When the Somali immigrant is about to be deported back to Somalia. The guy who had been raped by the Somali guy had a existential breakdown because he felt so guilty that the Somali sodomizer was not going to get a chance to live a flourished life in Mogadishu. That's example one. Example two, A white American woman went to Haiti to break down the stereotype that black men could be violent. She was held on top of a rooftop by a Haitian man who viciously raped her. And she walked away from that lesson or from that experience with two lessons. It's white supremacy that made him do this because he was so enraged by how he was victimized. And she ended up learning from this experience. So when you have a guy who is sodomized and a woman who's viciously raped themselves feeling empathy for their rapists, you couldn't have a better poster child of suicidal empathy.

[Andrew Colvett]

Geez. And you know, I'm reminded of Sarah Rogers who has those examples out of the Europe. Europe has lost its.

[Blake]

Yeah, you'll get a worse punishment for, you know, calling a group of gang rapists savages or whatever it was than the rapists themselves will get or pigs, something like that. And it's just, it's so destructive. I mean, we were also bashing Canada the other day along with everything else that.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Feel free. Feel free.

[Blake]

Yeah. I mean, Canada has. They just explicitly have racial discrimination in their laws. They say if you're from a racialized group because races aren't real, it's just some groups are racialized. That's the Canada conceit. Then you have punish less for crimes.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Forgive me for interrupting you because I'm seeing the countdown. I want to get in as many cool facts for your audience. In Canada, the University of Waterloo, which is sort of the equivalent of Caltech or mit, a largely engineering computer science school, was hiring Canada research chairs. This is the highest endowed professorship that Canada has. They wanted to hire AI professors to be competitive in AI and the job description said that you had to be non binary, two spirit or transgender to hold that position. So the Canadian government that endows this chair does not pick the best AI people. They have to be non binary or two spirit. Canada has stage five suicidal empathy.

[Andrew Colvett]

Dr. Gad Saad, this was amazing. He's suicidal empathy. Please pick it up. It's been so much fun. Yes. I genuinely believe that this is the vaccine seen to save the west and I really mean that. And Elon Musk agrees. Others agree. But thank you, Dr. Saad. It's been.

[Scott Kupor]

Thank you so much, guys.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

You're a pleasure.

[Scott Kupor]

Thank you.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

Cheers.

[Andrew Colvett]

We'll talk to you soon.

[Dr. Gad Saad]

For more on many of these stories and news you can trust, go to charliekirk.

[Blake]

Com.