Bonus Episode: Charlie's Best Immigration Debates

Summary

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The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: "Bonus Episode: Charlie's Best Immigration Debates"
Date: March 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This bonus episode features Charlie Kirk, founder of Turning Point USA, engaging in a series of intense, often combative, audience debates centered on U.S. immigration policy. Kirk, with his signature unapologetically conservative perspective, addresses the economic, legal, social, and moral dimensions of illegal immigration, responding to policy advocates, immigrants, and critics across a range of questions. The conversations take place in a town hall style, highlighting both factual disputes and foundational values. The episode is a showcase of Kirk's most memorable arguments, offering listeners a full spectrum of the current conservative grassroots approach to the immigration debate.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Economic Impact of Illegal Immigration

[01:09–03:09]

• Advocate’s Case:
  • Illegal immigrants form the backbone of several sectors: estimated as 50% of farm workers and 70% of construction jobs.
  • Contribute billions in taxes, much of which cannot be reclaimed (e.g., $2 billion to Social Security).
  • Deportation would drastically reduce agricultural output and lead to higher food prices.
  • Lower crime rates among immigrant populations.
  • Mass deportation would be financially and economically devastating.
  • The legal immigration system is overwhelmed and pushes people to cross illegally due to excessive wait times.

Notable Quote:

"Deporting them would slash agricultural output by $60 billion and raise food prices by 6%. Why gut our farms and wallets when these workers fuel our prosperity?" — Immigration Policy Advocate (01:30)

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2. Legal and Moral Arguments

[03:09–06:55]

• Kirk’s Response:
  • Challenges whether illegal immigration should be treated as a serious crime (insists it's a felony under federal law).
  • Repeatedly demands a coherent answer for what the penalty for illegal entry should be.
  • Argues that every undocumented immigrant is a criminal by mere presence, invalidating any argument about lower crime rates.
  • Suggests the only appropriate penalty is deportation.

Notable Quotes:

"Every single one of them are criminals. They're all criminals... If they commit less crime and they're all criminals... By definition, they all have broken the law by being here." — Charlie Kirk (05:53)

"So I just want to ask what should the penalty be then for someone that comes into this country illegally?" — Charlie Kirk (04:23)

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3. Assimilation, Language, and Social Cohesion

[11:26–13:37]

• Kirk’s Perspective:
  • Argues the focus on economic arguments is misplaced; the deeper loss is in cultural cohesion.
  • Cites concerns about declining English-language assimilation in youth and the threat to national unity.
  • Critiques the idea that diversity alone is a strength, favoring unity over multiculturalism.

Notable Quotes:

"I don't actually care as much about economic growth because... we're a nation under God. And when we lose social cohesion and you import a bunch of people that don't share our values... that’s a major and serious problem." — Charlie Kirk (13:06)

"Do you think there's anything wrong or troubling... that a majority of young people in California speak Spanish, not English?" — Charlie Kirk (12:29)

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4. Deportation Policies & Family Dilemmas

[16:21–20:01]

• Audience Question: What about children brought here illegally who know no other home?
• Kirk’s Moral Position:
  • Advocates deporting family as a unit to avoid splitting families.
  • Argues that blindness in law is a moral imperative, regardless of emotional hardships.
  • No special visa priority for those brought as children.
  • Responsibility lies with parents, not with U.S. immigration policy.

Notable Quotes:

"You're not gonna like my answer... The whole family unit should be returned back to the country." — Charlie Kirk (16:44)

"If we compromise on immigration law, then we do not have immigration law." — Charlie Kirk (17:48)

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5. Immigrant Voices & the "Line Cutting" Analogy

[21:26–29:02]

• Claudio’s View (Immigrant Guest):

  • Describes feelings of discrimination as a legal immigrant whose friends/family are undocumented.
  • Pushes Kirk to defend the humanity of hard-working undocumented immigrants.
  • Raises the plight of those fleeing violence—whether they should be given justified exception.

• Kirk’s Response:

  • Frames the debate as "rule followers" vs. "rule breakers."
  • Reiterates line-cutting analogy, arguing fairness to legal immigrants is paramount.
  • Affirms asylum process is the official venue for those fleeing violence.
  • Empathizes, but maintains penalty must be deportation for all.
  • Cautions against viewing immigrants as a permanent underclass for menial labor.

Notable Quotes:

"I divide America not into Mexican and white and Hispanic and white, into rule follower and rule breaker." — Charlie Kirk (25:05)

"If you are not invited into a home, into a dorm room, into a living room, the standard applies to entire country." — Charlie Kirk (25:06)

"There might be some economic disruption. However... wages are going to go up, and you guys are going to see your wages go up." — Charlie Kirk (25:28)

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6. U.S. Accountability Abroad and “America First”

[31:38–42:13]

• Critic's Argument:

  • Anti-immigration rhetoric has precedent in xenophobia.
  • U.S. has destabilized regions abroad, thereby bearing responsibility for displaced peoples.
  • Diversity has historically been at the heart of American identity.

• Kirk’s Counterpoints:

  • U.S. owes nothing to other countries for instability; accountability is not to invite all the world here.
  • Cites periods of low immigration as key to U.S. superpower status.
  • Asserts a government’s first loyalty is always to its own citizens.
  • Criticizes “invade the world, invite the world” neoconservatism.
  • Posits that countries must take responsibility for their prosperity or failures, using Israel and El Salvador as examples.

Notable Quotes:

"It's not a matter of being xenophobic. Instead, it's a matter of being patriotic to your own country and your own citizens. Not about hating the foreigner. It's about loving the citizen." — Charlie Kirk (33:04)

"Countries have to take responsibility for their own future..." — Charlie Kirk (39:08)

"I guess I think we're a wonderful country and I think if a country is poor, they're poor by choice and they have to be able to get their act together, make better decisions and stop acting like victims all the time." — Charlie Kirk (42:13)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Every single one of them are criminals. They're all criminals." — Charlie Kirk (05:53)
• "Deporting them would slash agricultural output by $60 billion and raise food prices by 6%." — Policy Advocate (01:30)
• "You followed the rules so you're exempt. The people that you know didn't follow the rules." — Charlie Kirk to Claudio (24:47)
• "If we compromise on immigration law, then we do not have immigration law." — Charlie Kirk (17:48)
• "Unity unifies you. You notice they never say unity is our strength. They say diversity is our strength." — Charlie Kirk (34:15)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:09–03:09: Policy advocate outlines economic and social arguments for undocumented immigrants.
• 03:12–06:27: Legal definitions and penalties for illegal entry debated.
• 11:13–13:00: Discussion pivots to assimilation, language, and cultural identity.
• 16:21–20:01: Family deportation and morality in law enforcement.
• 21:26–29:02: Immigrant’s personal testimony and the fairness of “line cutting.”
• 31:38–42:13: Broad critique of U.S. immigration rhetoric and America's responsibility for foreign instability.

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Concluding Summary

Charlie Kirk’s “Best Immigration Debates” episode offers a front-row seat to the fundamental divides in America’s immigration discourse. The show splices robust audience challenges with Kirk’s quick, uncompromising arguments rooted in legalism, moral clarity, and “America First” priorities. From economic impacts and language assimilation to family deportation and international culpability, Kirk relentlessly returns to his principle: "A government’s job is to care for its own citizens first." The episode provides a no-holds-barred look at current conservative resistance to open borders, complete with statistical disputes, moral dilemmas, and memorable audience exchanges—crystallizing the stakes of America's ongoing immigration debate.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

My name is Charlie Kirk. I run the largest pro American student organization in the country, fighting for the future of our republic. My call is to fight evil and to proclaim truth. If the most important thing for you is just feeling good, you're gonna end up miserable. But if the most important thing is doing good, you will end up purposeful. College is a scam, everybody. You gotta stop sending your kids to college. You should get married as young as possible and have as many kids as possible. Go start a Turning Point USA College chapter. Go start a Turning Point USA High School chapter. Go find out how your church can get involved. Sign up and become an activist. I gave my life to the Lord in fifth grade. Most important decision I ever made in my life. And I encourage you to do the same. Here I am, Lord. Use me. Buckle up everybody. Here we go. The Charlie Kirk show is proudly sponsored by Preserve Gold, the leading gold and silver experts and the only precious metals company I recommend to my family, friends and viewers.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

I have. I have a couple points that I want to talk about in illegal immigration. Is it okay if I write if I say all of them with no interruptions? Okay, cool. So first, illegal immigrants power our economy. They're 50% of US farm workers harvesting the food on our tables and fill 70% of construction jobs. In states like Texas, they pay 13 billion annually in taxes, including 2 billion to Social Security that they can't claim. Deporting them would slash agricultural output by 60 billion and raise food prices by 6%. Why gut our farms and wallets when these workers fuel our prosperity? That's my first point. Second point. They strengthen our communities with lower crime rates. So in Texas, undocumented. Undocumented immigrants have a 26 lower percentage homicide conviction rates. So which is 2.2 per 100,000 versus 3 for native born citizens. Nationally, immigrants are incarcerated at half the rate of native born, where it's 0.85% versus 1.71%. That's according to Bureau of Justice statistics from 2019. So if safety is your goal, why deport people who make our streets Safer? Is my third point. Mass deportation tears apart American families. Over 4.4 million U.S. citizens. Children have an undocumented parent. And in Texas, one in seven kids lives in a mixed status household. Okay, this is my fourth point. Deportation is a fiscal nightmare. Removing 11 million people would cost 315 to 400 billion more than the entire homeland security budget and shrink our GDP by by 1.7 trillion over 10 years. And this is my last point. Our immigration system is broken. Pushing people to cross illegally. Visa weights, Mexicans can exceed 20 years. And the asylum blockage is 1.3 million cases with hearings four to six years out.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, you done?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

That's pretty much it. Yeah. Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right, so without looking at the phone, look at me. What should the penalty be for breaking into America?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

I think there should be a system where it's more merit based. So if this person.

[Charlie Kirk]

Penalty. So what is the penalty? So what, What? Yeah, what should happen?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

It's not a felony. It's a misdemeanor. No, it is.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's not true. It's 8 USC 1312. You can look it up right now.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

It's a felony if it's done twice. That's correct.

[Charlie Kirk]

That is not correct.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

I googled it.

[Charlie Kirk]

To illegally go across the southern border with the, well, intent to come in to harbor yourself into the interior the United States. The violation of 8 USC 1312, which is a felony in the federal criminal code. Now it can be enforced as a misdemeanor or it can be upwards to five years in prison. Now I want to know, since it's a felony law in the books, 8 USC 1312, what should the penalty be?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Well, in my opinion, these kinds of like laws are not, are usually. They're, they're, they're. What do you call it? They're. Sorry. Usually the, like the. Sorry. Sorry, can I, can I check my phone real quick? I apologize. Can you, can you repeat the question? Sorry.

[Charlie Kirk]

What should the penalty be for someone that breaks or comes into America illegally? What should the penalty be?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

I think there should be a merit system where the people. Okay, the penalty.

[Charlie Kirk]

All right, let's. That's not the answer. It's a very simple moral and legal question.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

What should the penalty be if you come into America illegally?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Okay, so since it's a misdemeanor, not a felony. Misdemeanors.

[Charlie Kirk]

I just told you it's not eight. You can look up on your chat GPT. What is eight USC look up. What is eight USC 1312.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

No, I know, I've already looked it up. Yes, which is when it's your second time crossing the border illegally, then it becomes a felony.

[Charlie Kirk]

It can, it can be. And it is enforced as a felony. And it usually is done as a misdemeanor citation because no one has the stones to do 20, 20 million felony applications. Okay, so I just want to ask what should the penalty be then for someone that comes into this country illegally?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Usually there's three ways that go about this. When there's a penalty there's either like a fine or there is some kind of like public service that this person does, or you send them back. But.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, send them back. I agree. That's all we should do.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Okay, so. Okay, so this is interesting. So one of the stats, One of the statistics that I read said that illegal immigrants don't cause as much as much like elite. They don't break the law as often as people who are native born. That is statistic.

[Charlie Kirk]

But every single one of them are criminals. They're all criminals.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

They're okay, sure, by law. No, by law. Of course.

[Charlie Kirk]

Of course. If they commit less crime and they're all criminals. Wait a second. By definition, they all have broken the law by being here. And they break the law every day by stake, staying here. Because you're actually not allowed to stay here either. Do you know that? So every day you're here, you're actually continually breaking the law. You can't break in or harbor. That's what the federal law says. So by breaking in, it's not just the only law they broke. Every second you remain here, you're also breaking the law. So that statistic is invalidated by just them breathing here. They're breaking the law?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

No, of course not. Of course not. So of course it makes sense for them. When they're here, they're breaking a law because they're illegal immigrants, obviously. Obviously. But once they're. Okay, yeah, of course. So once they're here. Once they are here, what kind of harm are they actually doing? When you look at the numbers, a lot. No, no, that's not true.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. Black wages have gone down.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Okay. In Texas.

[Charlie Kirk]

DUIs have gone up dramatic, dramatically, not to interrupt, bro. So I'm interjecting and I let you go uninterrupted with your whole soliloquy. Right. So. So let me just. Let me ask you a question though.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Okay?

[Charlie Kirk]

So if it is correct that illegal aliens commit less crimes, which of course. Course it's not correct.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

That is correct. Look it up. In Texas, they made a study in 2019.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is 20% any crime? It's just not correct. But I'm not going to debate that. It's. I just. I just proved it at its face. Because they commit a crime by being here every day. That is a crime.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Okay, Once they are here, what kind of crimes are they committing? Which is.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, well, they're.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

They're 26%.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you know the name Lake and Riley?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

No. Educate me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, you don't?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

No.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you know. Wow. Do you know the Name? Rachel Morin.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

No, I don't.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wow. Okay, so Lake and Riley was a girl at the University of Georgia. There was a peeping Tommy illegal alien that was deported five times prior, and Biden kept on letting him back in. He hunted her down her. Sodomized her, and murdered her on a hiking trail. University of Georgia.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Okay. Rachel Person doesn't represent all honest immigrants.

[Charlie Kirk]

Every person who is killed by an illegal alien is one that should not happen. Every single one. And also the ones that are everyone. And so that's. The point, is that it's not a matter of the rate. The rate. Even if I accept your premise, which is incorrect, the rate is irrelevant. The number is what's relevant. There should be zero illegal aliens. There should be zero Americans being killed by illegals. Not to mention there's six other problems with illegal aliens. They steal Social Security numbers. They depress wages. They are heavily involved, by the way. Not to mention a lot of people that cross on the southern border are also smuggling girls, weapons, and drugs alongside the southern border when they come. It's the largest slavery operation in American history that many illegal aliens help make possible on the southern border. And I guess the final question I'll have is, should a government serve its citizens first and foremost?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Yeah, of course.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

Of course.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Well, okay. There's many. There's been many people who are like, very political leaders who have said that this place is built off of immigrants.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, is it? Well, hold on. Let's think about that. First of all, it's legal, not illegal. But was America founded by immigrants or settlers?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Settlers.

[Charlie Kirk]

That's not an immigrant.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Yeah, yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

That's not my point. My point is that people brought up

[Charlie Kirk]

the nation built by immigrants.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Yeah. Because the political leaders have said that this place is built.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And they're. They're wrong.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

They're wrong. Political leaders are wrong. George W. Bush is wrong. All these political leaders who have built America's.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes. By the way, the first person to say that was, how is that wrong?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

When illegal immigrants make.

[Charlie Kirk]

I just.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

They grow the economy.

[Charlie Kirk]

Statistics. Allow me again, allow me to build it out for you. Sure, immigrants have helped at times in American history, but we are first and foremost a nation founded by settlers. Immigrants come to a country already built. Settlers come to a barren place and build something new.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

This land was barren when people came in the 1840s gold rush. This was not an easy place to live. California was not exactly industrialized. There was not immigrants coming west to California. Those were settlers building a new place around, you know, western, western Values. Finally, I would just ask the question, do you see a moral distinction between a legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Well, the argument is that they're cutting in line like their argument is that they're cutting in line of the 20 year process that it would take for someone to be to cross.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's not 20, but yeah, at most it's 20.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

At most of 20 right now there's around like 1.2 million people who are currently waiting. That would take six to seven years for a hearing.

[Charlie Kirk]

And by the way, no one has a right to come to this country. Just to be clear.

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[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Let me stay on track of what I was going to say. Okay, so. So people, people who come here usually almost all the time when they come here, they benefit society. They benefit society. There's studies that have done this.

[Charlie Kirk]

Not necessarily.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Okay. Not necessarily. But overall, in general.

[Charlie Kirk]

But overall disagree with that.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

You can disagree with a fact.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. Do you think Elon Omar has enriched the United States of America?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

I don't know.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you think Rashida Talib? I mean, I could go through person by person by person.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

So I don't know. These people are these people who have like our illegal immigrants that have caused harm?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. Again, if you don't know, I don't mean to pick on you, it's fine. But I guess the final question is, do you have any concern that there are too many people coming into this country and we're a nation of strangers, not a nation of neighbors.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

If the people who are coming are creating America, making it more growing, like the economy is growing, then what harm is that doing? Especially if the people are more than

[Charlie Kirk]

an economy, though, aren't we? We're a culture. We're a language.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Yeah, of course. Okay, so let's talk about that front. When they come here, they don't have any kind of. They're not committing as more. More crimes than the people who are already here.

[Charlie Kirk]

That is, We've already dispelled that. But that is not.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

You can't just tell us foreign.

[Charlie Kirk]

You can't. Do you think there's anything wrong that a majority of young people in California speak Spanish, not English?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Is there? Wait, sorry. Can you see?

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you think there's anything wrong or troubling to the fact that a majority of people under the age of 30 here in the state speaking Spanish, not English? Is there a problem with that?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Well, yeah, everyone should be able to have a ability to communicate with the rest of the crowd. So I don't know what the big issue of that.

[Charlie Kirk]

See, I think it's a huge problem when we have a nation where you can't communicate.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Simple solution, teach them how to speak English.

[Charlie Kirk]

What is your problem? Our schools don't do that actually. And also have a better solution. Don't import a bunch of people that don't speak English.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

You mean importing people who actually grow the economy.

[Charlie Kirk]

Don't reject. I reject your premise. And we're.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Premise. That's a study that's been done.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you know what a premise is? I don't actually care as much about economic growth because we're one nation under. We're one nation under gdp. We're not one nation or gdp. We're a nation under God. And when we lose social cohesion and you import a bunch of people that don't share our values, that don't necessarily always assimilate. That's a major and serious problem. And we are. We are a people first and foremost with a creed. And that creed is falling apart. Mass migration has not helped that creed. Yes, they might buy more trinkets. They might help depress wages. Mass migration, of course, all good things.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

All great things for America.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, they help major corporations. But you know what they also do? They keep down the wages of working people. If you are a plumber. Yes, of course. If you think about your plumber, electrician or a welder, and you have to compete against someone from Nicaragua who's willing to do it for five bucks less an hour, that depresses the wages of the American citizens.

[Conservative Questioner]

Right?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Yeah. So there's been studies that have done that. I will also like counteract that. Illegal immigrants. Well, let me use our reason studies.

[Charlie Kirk]

How about our reason? So we've had mass migration for 20 years. Have wages gone up?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

I don't know.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, they haven't actually. So forget your studies. For 10 years we've had, for 10 years we've had 30 million people coming to America. Wages have gone down dramatically. Maybe there's a reason why.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Okay, okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

So what I encourage you to do, just because there's a study that confirms you should use your reason and look actually at self evident truths. Be like, huh, does that make sense? Can you name physics are self evident? Well, not always. Statistics are very misleading. Yes. Like for example, I could say, did you know that 600 people a year die because of seatbelts? Well that's a misleading statistic because over 100,000 lives are saved by seatbelts. That's an incomplete statistic.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Okay, so where is the. So that's a gray area. So where's the gray area where people are Talking about where 26% of illegal immigrants who come here commit less crimes than native born?

[Charlie Kirk]

We have. How many times have you been over this? That's just not correct.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

That is correct. That is correct.

[Charlie Kirk]

Every single crime.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

It doesn't matter about the study that was done in Texas, the most diverse, again, second most diverse state.

[Charlie Kirk]

Every crime in illegal commits is one that should never have happened. It is a period they should not be here. So I don't care about the rate. The rate is irrelevant. So let me just ask one final question is relevant. Someone broke into the country and cut in line. What should happen to them?

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Well, they get, they're given. Ideally there's a system, Ideally there's a system that's merit based where these people then become part of the. Part of the citizen. Like they become a legal citizen.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I mean we have clarity but not agreement. I say deport them all back to their country of origin and put Americans first.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

That's not an appropriate solution when the

[Charlie Kirk]

American people voted for it. And it is appropriate.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

It isn't appropriate because most of the people that do come here illegally contribute positively.

[Charlie Kirk]

Again, society not again.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Statistically, everything backs this.

[Charlie Kirk]

You're not listening to anything I'm saying. And that's fine. They take jobs from Americans, they depress wages, they steal Social Security numbers, they commit a crime every single day that they're here. They flood our public schools, they flood our social services, they flood our hospitals. They, they are a burden on the taxpayer. They should go back and make their own country great again and apply and become a legal immigrant if they want to live here. Thank you very much.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

Thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Next question.

[Conservative Questioner]

Basically my question is there are circumstances in the US where little kids come in illegally because of their parents, but they come here and they, this is their whole life. They have no history in their home country. Right. How do we humanely and as conservatives or Christians like deal with this in a way that represents our values?

[Charlie Kirk]

You're not gonna like my answer.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

And that's okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

The whole family unit should be returned back to the country.

[Conservative Questioner]

Okay, that's what I was tending to think.

[Charlie Kirk]

And can I just build it out?

[Conservative Questioner]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

So a moral teaching of scripture is that you do not favor justice for the poor or for the rich. This idea of blind justice. And if we agree it is wrong to do this and we say, okay, what's the most humane way? It'd be one thing if we say, hey, you separate the family, which ironically people on the left actually want the family separated. They say, oh, keep the kids and bring the parents back home. I think that's wrong. I think the whole family unit should return. And here's why is that these parents, when they brought some of these kids across the border, they knowingly put their kids in harm's way.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

That's true.

[Charlie Kirk]

And again, it is not fair to the kids of other nations that are not able to legally immigrate into this country just because others were carried across the southern border.

[Conservative Questioner]

Do you think it would then be reasonable to give maybe these families and unfortunately due to their parents decision, maybe more priority about getting an actual visa

[Charlie Kirk]

or no, no visas. I know I'm pretty harsh on this and I'll tell you why. If we compromise on immigration law, then we do not have immigration law. You must, we must be uncompromising in the enforcement of law, period. And again, if we want to accommodate certain things, then we're basically going to say, hey, this law should not exist and anybody can come in under any circumstances. But again, the parents are the ones to blame here, not the US Government. The parents brought their kids. And I'm going to say something a little bit provocative, almost as like Mr. Many hostages against the system, where they're like, well, you can't deport me because I brought these kids.

[Conservative Questioner]

As a safety mechanism.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, as a safety mechanism. And by the way, just so we're clear, some of these kids are brought across in sex trafficking ways. Some of them are brought in very cruel and Unusual ways. And so again, people don't always love that answer.

[Conservative Questioner]

But yeah, I guess my next question to that would be. I'm trying to think. I just like. Because they're, they have no, maybe they don't even, you know, they, their first language is English. They may not even speak their native language. And you said that it was because that's the law right now that we don't allow immigra immigration inside. But in the past presidency, maybe when they came in that wasn't the case. And I don't agree with that. That was the way it was during that time. But then shouldn't we maybe allow those people to. Because that was acceptable in that moment.

[Charlie Kirk]

If you're 25 years or younger, it's been, it's been the law for about 25 years. Right. Like 2008 USD 1312, I guess saying

[Conservative Questioner]

just like in the last presidency, it was just so like chillax, I guess.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I mean so look like let's, let's just talk about something that's going to be a huge test because what you're talking about is still a hypothetical in some ways because you're talking about people that might have been here for 10 or 15 years. The more important and one that's going to be a huge lift is getting all 14 million people that came across in the last four years. They do know another nation, they do know another home. Yeah, we're not even getting the people that are 18, 20, 25. We're talking about trying to get 14 million people that were bum rushed across the border in the span of four years. Every single one of those people should be returned back to their country of origin and deported from the United States.

[Conservative Questioner]

I agree with that as well.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

So

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[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Hi, Charlie. Great to meet you. Thank you for letting me speak in your platform. First of all, I really disagree with you in a lot of things.

[Charlie Kirk]

Be respectful, guys. It's fine. Part of what makes America a great country.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

It does. It does. America is a great country. But I don't like your T shirt. And I'm gonna get started by saying I'm an immigrant. And, well, I don't understand why you would want to deport all, like, some of my friends and family who have been working hard in this country and that, like, they're being persecuted right now. So I just. I don't get the. The whole process of it. And it feels like I'm being discriminated against, even though I'm here through legal means. But just. Can you please give me an answer for that? And before that, if, like, let's say, if I would come up here and say, like, I'm an illegal immigrant and I'm here trying to debate you, would you call ice?

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, Tom Holman would probably see the video, and you'd probably go back to your true country.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, that's. That's how it works, right? But let me just ask you a question. What is the fair way a country in your ideal, you're king. What's your name?

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Sorry, I'm Claudio, sir.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, Claudio. And this is just a thought exercise, but it's very revealing. You are king, and you find out that there are 30 million uninvited people in your country. What do you do with them?

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Oh, in this case, I. I try to find the most humane way of sending them back to our country. But first of all, I want to

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

say that's what we're doing.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Wait, let me just. Let me just say something.

[Immigration Policy Advocate]

That's what we're doing.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let me just say King Claudio. Long lived king.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

I'm not a. I'm not. I'm not a dictator at all.

[Charlie Kirk]

But of course, I'm saying it's a helpful thought.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

I get it. I get it. And all I'm saying is you were talking about, like, in the past couple people that came up here, like America first, trying to get, like, the best for our country and like, increasing the productivity and getting us to be like, the best country possible. Which I agree. Like, I love this country, but a lot of this country is built on, like, illegal immigrant labor. And it's, it's definitely like a bad means, but it's been a good result somehow. Like, I'm sure, you know, people like you have friends from, like, home that own businesses that employ these types of people that are very productive and very, very honest and just hardworking, trying to get a better life. And a lot of those people are very close to me. So it's just a very heartbreaking situation for me. But I understand.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. Yeah, but I mean, and you gave the answer. If you were in charge, I guess this is an important, another important question. What should the punishment be then if you break into somebody else's country uninvited and stay there without welcome?

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Well, I really. I don't know what the punishment should be. I'm not a lawyer.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, that's okay. I'm just asking. It's totally.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Here's our position is that it is against federal law to come into America. Right. You're not allowed to come into the country without, you know, without invite. So that's against the law. So if we can do one of two things, and there really isn't, there's very little in the middle, there's some nuance. But we can say we are not going to enforce the law because, you know, we're just going to say that doesn't matter. Or we could say, look, the law is blind and when you break the law, it must apply to all people. Now, I think you're a little different because I don't want you to loop in. So what country did you emigrate from?

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Are you going to, like, discriminate against?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I'm actually. I'm going to do the opposite, actually.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

What? I'm curious.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

I'm Mexican.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, fine. But you came here legally, correct?

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

I did, sir.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, great.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Well, if I didn't, you'd be calling the police, wouldn't you?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, but it's not a racial thing. If you were, if you were Polish and you overstayed a visa, then you should be. But hold on. You followed the rules so you're exempt. The people that you know didn't follow the rules.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

True.

[Charlie Kirk]

So I divide America not into Mexican and white and Hispanic and white, into rule follower and rule breaker.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

And so when someone breaks our rules, there must be justice done, There must be a punishment. And the most humane way is you go back to your country of origin. We'll do it humanely, we'll do it correctly. But if you are not invited into a home, into a dorm room, into a living room, the standard applies to entire country. Now, to your point, you might be right. There might be some economic disruption. However, you know what happens if you have economic disruption in the labor pool? Wages are going to go up, and you guys are going to see your wages go up.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Who is going to occupy those jobs?

[Charlie Kirk]

So this is a little bit insulting. I don't think you mean it this way. That illegal immigrants are nothing more than just kind of like

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

my people insulting them.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm even defending. I don't think you mean it this way. But broadly, when we talk about immigration, there's a talking about, like, well, who's going to pick your grapefruits? And like, who's going to serve you? Chipotle? You've probably heard this before, right?

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

I have, yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Who's going to clean your hotel room? Yeah, but hold on. Embedded in that is kind of a really derogatory. That's like they're kind of just like a permanent surf class here to serve us. I think that's like, really creepy and weird, actually. These are human beings. They're more than just kind of economic utility.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Yeah, no, but like in the, in the history of the, of the U.S. like, we've heard, we first had like, the Italian and Polish immigrants, and they first served those jobs and then they became like, economically sufficient and they, they were welcomed. True.

[Charlie Kirk]

And.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

But it was a different time in history, like, of course.

[Charlie Kirk]

But I suppose the broader question is one of justice, which is that to what should a country do when your sovereignty has been so massively violated for a long period of time and a country seeks to be a country becomes something else, it becomes a colony or it becomes just kind of a random area. If a country does not have loyalty to its own people, and if it has loyalty to foreigners or to an oligarchy, it ceases to be a country. So it's not the most popular argument. Well, actually, the American people voted for it. And it sounds cruel, but it's very simple. It's like, look, this is not against any of you personally, but you have to have the law be the first and last ushering of what a government does in this situation. And by the way, what I was saying about you, I'm getting back to you. You deserve to be applauded because you guys followed the rules. And it's not fair to people like you who followed the rules to all of a sudden have line cutters. Here's the equivalent. You guys waited in line like two and a half hours to go get a meal at a restaurant and someone shows up and just cuts in line. What was the first thing you would say? That's not fair. And you would be right. And the same with immigration, please.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Yeah, wait, let me just like add a layer to this and then I'm probably done. But like, let's say that the people that's cutting like in front of line, like that's like, like some of my boys like that I know that they're being like persecuted like back home, them and their families, like they're like in like drug related like wars and violence. And the only way out, like the only way they're not gonna die or like suffer a very bad fate is if they escape and they break the American law. But that's the only way they're gonna survive. So like.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on, hold on. 2 thoughts on this. Number one, if that is correct, we have a special asylum status that they could seek legally at a port of entry, that they could go through a whole process.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

But if they're being persecuted, don't they not deserves. But it wouldn't be justified to cut the line?

[Charlie Kirk]

No. Okay. Secondly. Well, it might be justified in their mind, but it's not justified in the rule administers mind to make exception for it. But let me just, let me make a more important point though. If we all of a sudden say that if you have a lot of gang violence and issues, I mean like we have a lot of gang violence and issues, like what are we talking about here? Like we were a more dangerous country than half of the Central American countries. We're far more dangerous than El Salvador. And we could, we could make an example if that is the criteria. Like all of South America should be allowed into America, basically. I mean the idea is that at some point you have almost no standard whatsoever. And instead, here's my perspective, we should empower those people to go fix their own country. We should empower them to go make El Salvador great again, which is a great country now. Okay, Nicaragua, Honduras. Yes, please. Final.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

So wouldn't like a good way to start is like trying to lower the. The demand for drugs in America, because a lot of the drugs that are, like, being produced and being fought over in South America are going to be supplied to the US For American consumers.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. So how would you recommend lowering demand?

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

I have no idea. Like, what would you do?

[Charlie Kirk]

Or like, I don't know. I mean, demand and supply are two different issues. I mean, the first part of demand is that way too many people get into. I talked to my earlier point. They get into a thought pattern that substances are going to bring me flourishing, which I think is wrong. But yes, I think, look, the drug cartels are richer than ever before and we have more drugs legalized than any time in the last 40 years. So something doesn't fit. So obviously drug legalization is not impoverishing them. The biggest way, though, that we stop these third world countries from being, you know, tin pot despotic dictatorships is we have to stop subsidizing their oligarchy through foreign aid. And then, yes, you're right, the Chinese Communist Party is pumping tons of money into these countries. But finally, and I know this sounds a little bit cruel, is that I care far more about the suffering of Americans than the suffering of other people's countries. First, I would, too. Yeah. And you have to. You have to look after your own people. You have to draw the line. And it's the old adage, right, guys, if your plane is going down, what do they tell you to do? First you put your mask on first and then the mask on the person that might not be able to put a mask on an infant or someone that might be infirmed. It's the same way as a country, we need to put our own oxygen mask on first, and then we can worry about helping other people. Thank you so much.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

I appreciate it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

Can I get a hat?

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[Critic of Immigration Policy]

I think that the anti immigration rhetoric you have is not new. I think that you try to paint a picture of it being this current phenomenon that we're facing. But there's been rhetoric from, you know, your side from, for a long time, throughout the entirety of history. I mean, if we look at the immigration policies in the US Even though Chinese immigrants built the entire western railroad, there was still the Chinese Exclusion act because they were providing insane value to the United States. But we still had these exclusion acts because of xenophobic attitudes. And so this is not, this is not a novel idea that, you know, immigrants are bad for the country. So I'm interested in why you think that all of a sudden we need to change the way the United States works.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, first of all, immigration has gone in great influxes. We basically turned off all immigration in the 1940s and 50s. We had like net zero immigration for almost 15 years. Most people don't even know that. So we had Ellis island in the early 1900s and then we turned on the guzzle of immigration. But let's be honest, for 40 years we have tried to this mass immigration project for the last 40 years. Has it worked? Are we a more connected country? Have middle class wages kept up? Look at the material data. Has immigration enriched the well being of the United States of America, especially the last five or six years? I would say of course not. Actually we're more divided, we're more factious and we see this in almost every European country as well. When you import a bunch of people that don't speak your language, that are from the third world, all of a sudden you have mass destabilization happening in your country. It's not a matter of being xenophobic. Instead it's a matter of being patriotic to your own country and your own citizens. Not about hating the foreigner. It's about loving the citizen. And your obligation is always to citizens first, not foreigners.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

Okay, so you don't think that the MAGA movement has led to xenophobic attitudes at all?

[Charlie Kirk]

I don't even know how to answer that. I mean like, why not? Well, because you have to first define what you mean by xenophobic attitudes.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

I mean, just like you said, you said, I mean, we're living in a divided world. You don't think that comes from people being anti immigration?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I think it's the opposite. I think when you allow a bunch of people that aren't native born Americans too quickly, with no checks, no background, no idea who they are, and flood them into your towns, definitionally, diversity is not a strength when it comes to local community ties.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

If you don't use it, if you don't use it, I don't know that you're committed to finding its strength.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. No, explain this to me. This is a good question.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

What country has ever grown stronger the more divided it's been?

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

None. But I'm not saying that's the point. To get more divided.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, no. But, but diversity definitionally will divide. Unity unifies you. You notice they never say unity is our strength. They say diversity is our strength. In fact, just so we are clear, there is nothing racist or xenophobic to say that you want your kids to be around people that speak English. There's nothing racist to say that it actually means that you want to be able to communicate with your neighbor. There's nothing racist and xenophobic to say, for example, we don't want to import people from a far off distant land that don't share western values, that don't treat women the same, that don't have the same respect for freedom of speech. So what we see is the unraveling of the United States of America. Because a country is again just like undoubtedly it is the people that inhabit it. So you have to be very careful what people you allow into your country.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

Sure. But I think that what you're talking about, this like mass shift in American culture is like not happening. I think you're fear mongering. And also I think that the United States forever has been a mix of culture. I don't really know like where you can point to a time in the US history that hasn't included immigrants in its culture.

[Charlie Kirk]

Again from the 20s to the 1920s and 1960s, we had very little immigration in this country, nearly 40 years. In fact, that is what largely led to us becoming a world superpower in the 1950s is we felt we had

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

the bracero program back then where we brought in tons of laborers from the United, from Mexico to the United States to work in agricultural and that's how we fed the United States.

[Charlie Kirk]

So again that was, it was very limited in scope versus what we see today. But again, I will ask a more moral question. Does a Politician have first loyalty to its own citizens or to another country's citizens?

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

Absolutely. I'm glad you brought this because I wanted to circle back to my original question about the United States creating instability in the rest of the world. I do think that every single politician, like, let's say I'm the first prime minister of South Africa, you know, my.

[Charlie Kirk]

My incredibly anti white country. Like, oh, my goodness.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

Okay, anyway.

[Charlie Kirk]

Dangerously anti white.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

Anyway, do you know about that, by the way? You should.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

Apartheid? Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, no, no, no, no, no. It's like they're killing white people in the streets in South Africa. They're stealing farmland. I mean, do you. If you don't know about that, that shows how the media is lying to all of you. It is literally a mini white genocide happening in South Africa right now.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

But I don't think that we should.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it's fine. You brought up South Africa, not me.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

But yes, that was just an example. Anyway, let's stay on topic. So let's say I'm the Prime Minister for a country. I do agree with you that my first job is that country for sure. That's who I'm leading. But considering the United States has created mass violence, instability, and poverty around the world, you don't think that we have some sort of obligation to the people who then have to flee from that?

[Charlie Kirk]

No.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

Why not?

[Charlie Kirk]

Wait, hold on. Well, why not define your terms. Where have we created mass stability? I'll grant you Iraq. That was a disaster. Where else?

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

In all of Latin America? In different countries. In Africa, places like the Philippines that we colonized. Puerto Rico.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. I mean, of course, I'm always so interested in this, as if it's like, you can never blame those countries for not having their act together. It's somehow America's fault. Like, oh, it's America's fault that Nicaragua can't get its act together. It's America's fault. Even though we welcome Puerto Rico to become US Citizens, like we've colonized them. So here's the paradox.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

You don't think that Puerto Rico was colonized?

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, no, no. I'm saying no. So if we don't help Puerto Rico, we're evil. When they become a territory, we colonize them and we haven't done enough. It's like, which one is it exactly?

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

The Puerto Rico was taken from the Spanish as a colony and used as a sugar farm for years, where the workers were paid less than a dollar per day to create sugar for the United States. And it's not really about statehood or Independence. It's about letting Puerto Rico decide that for themselves. And anyway, this isn't about Puerto Rico.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it's fine. But more broadly, and I'll get to a couple final questions here, I can sense that your problem is that, like, America's super successful and these other countries aren't. And foundationally, it's rooted in envy, bitterness and resentment because we are the world's superpower. It's not because we've held anybody back. It's because we've had incredible people, really good ideas.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

I think the US has intervened in

[Charlie Kirk]

a negative way in other countries at times. Yes, at times we've intervened very favorably. Can you at least acknowledge at times

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

that sure, there has been aid, but there's also been terrorism?

[Charlie Kirk]

Not just aid. South Korea exists because of American involvement. Kuwait exists because of American involvement.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

It's not. It's not.

[Charlie Kirk]

So.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

But, but, but to, to look at American accountability, you have to look at the whole of that accountability. And, and to say that certain countries are less developed purely on their own fault is to ignore history.

[Charlie Kirk]

I can. So that. That's where we disagree. Countries have to take responsibility for their own future, which, again, this is one of the reasons why so many people hate Israel. Every other country around there is like a third world country. And Israel is super successful and super agenic and they're able to be like one of the wealthiest countries on the planet. You got to wonder, what is it that they're doing? Oh, it's the Jews because they're stealing all this money. No, actually they like, work super hard and they don't believe in Islam and they actually. And like, wow. And the one place that.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

You ever been to those countries?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, actually I have been to Israel and I've been to the Palestinian Authority. I've been to that. I've been to the West Bank. I've actually visited it. Even if I had, that doesn't mean what I'm saying is wrong. Just for the record, by the way, I encourage you to try to go to Lebanon or Syria. Not exactly the Four Seasons. Right.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

So not great that US intervention has anything to do with that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Partially. But again, to blame the evil US intervention for every single problem is, at its core intellectually sloppy.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

I don't think so. Because the United States has two times the military of the rest of the world and it has been in our DNA to intervene in a military way in other countries. So to say. I mean, you. I know you believe.

[Charlie Kirk]

So I want to try to square this all together. I got to get another Question. Just make sure I'm clear. So you're mad at America for getting involved in other people's countries. Right? So America's bad for that. But then you want everyone to come to America. I thought America's bad.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

I'm saying that the United States needs to be held accountable. You can't meddle in.

[Charlie Kirk]

So we're held accountable by inviting the entire world here.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

If, if you are going to mess up that country, you have to do something about it.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, do something. Invite them here.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

Maybe if you're the reason that they have to leave.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, then that, that, that at its core, I'm glad you articulated it is neoconservatism, which is invade the world, invite the world, which is that you don't support the invasion part of it, but somehow we have to invite the world as some sort of like mass penance.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

So but that's like you invade and

[Charlie Kirk]

then say oh no, I don't, I don't support the invasions. I'm just, I think you are overly ascribing fault to the, the United States of America when in reality it's, it's these own broken countries that cannot get their own act together. A great example is this, and I'll close with this. El Salvador is become, is actually safer than America. It has billions of dollars flowing into El Salvador. Why? Because they elected Bukele who decided to go after Ms. 13 and clean up the streets of El Salvador. Which again, it wasn't. It was because they decided to do good things with massive action. Countries can be wealthy, Singapore is wealthy. You could be a very wealthy country if you embrace western market ideas, private property with low crime. And it's not always.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

I mean in the case of El Salvador, the United States was the reason that the country broke down into gang warfare. And now if you look at the way they were able to turn around, they had to declare state of emergency just to be able to turn things around.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's just like this is where we're different. And then I'll close, then we have to get going. I look at America as a force for good. You look at everything wrong and you say it must be America.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

No sir, I'm looking at bad things that they have done and calling for accountability.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, like I again, I mean, maybe we disagree.

[Critic of Immigration Policy]

I don't know.

[Charlie Kirk]

I guess I think we're a wonderful country and I think of a country as poor. They're poor by choice and they have to be able to get their act together, make better decisions and stop acting like victims. All the time. Thank you very much.

[Claudio (Immigrant Guest)]

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