B (3:23)

So why are so few pastors fighting back, so few churches reopening?

A (3:28)

Yeah, I think they hoped for the best from the governor, but now they're starting to realize the governor has no interest in the church. And now they're starting to awaken. At one point, we were kind of the tip of the spear in regards to opening, but hundreds of churches are opening in California. We had the C3 churches with Pastor Jurgen Mathesias. Those C3 churches open. John MacArthur's open. Jack Hibbs has been open. Mike McClure's up in San Jose. He's getting beat up. They've got $30,000 in fines that the county up there is assessing on them and another Baptist pastor in Santa Clara. But pastors are opening up all around, even in Ventura. We've had at least three churches that I know of who've joined us in opening. So it's starting to awaken.

B (4:08)

But what do you say to people that are all across the country, not just California? I get so many messages, Charlie, you've really helped lead me to Christ and lead us to the right path. But my pastor won't open.

A (4:19)

Yeah. And the pastors are going to realize, I would say, like you said, go find another church and vote with your feet. Because, you know, going to church via the Internet is like watching a fireplace on your computer screen. There's no warmth. And you know, Hebrews 10 says, do not forsake fellowshipping with the saints. This is critical and the church is essential, especially in time. Of pandemic. And I want to say to the listeners, the viewers, that we've been open since May 31. We haven't had a single case of COVID If you're worried about COVID We've got ionization machines and UV lights in our air systems, and we wash our hands. There's no social distancing, no masks, because there's no empirical data to support that. And they're trying to muzzle the church. Liberty is not man's idea, it's God's idea. We need to lead folks and be the instrument of that and set the captives free. So I would say to folks attending a church that is unwilling to open, find a church that is and go attend.

B (5:16)

Why are pastors so afraid of the state?

A (5:19)

You know, I love hopes, all things. I've told you this. I don't know that they're afraid.

B (5:23)

I get this question all the time. That's why I'm asking you.

A (5:25)

Yeah, I don't know that they're afraid of the state as much as they're. That they want to be peacemakers. They're not. They don't like conflict, and that's the nature of most pastors. But they're starting to realize that this governor, especially in California, and I can say other states around the the country, this governor has no interest in the church. This is, in my estimation, it's diabolical and it's draconian. He wants to shut the church down. So, pastors, you may have, love, hopes, all things, you may have the best of intentions and believe the most in the governor. But I can tell you as a previously elected official, I knew this from the beginning. The governor is not interested in your church surviving. It's time to open up and push back.

B (6:08)

It's happening all across the country. Christians are in a state of confusion right now where they say, my church won't open. It's been six months. They're saying, let's wait another couple months. Some churches have gone completely virtual. Andy Stanley did a live stream where he said the church shouldn't open.

A (6:25)

I don't know Andy Stanley. I can't make a comment on him as an individual, but the position he's taking, I would contend fervently, I would be willing to debate him on that. I think that is the wrong message to be sending to the church in America. The absolute wrong message.

B (6:44)

So you guys are flourishing like never before.

A (6:46)

Absolutely. And they say, well, you know, we want to protect the preaching of the gospel. Well, you know, the gospel is the most Important thing. But the second most important thing is protecting the government that protects the preaching of that gospel, which you continually said, charlie, you have been an advocate for freedom, more importantly, liberty. Freedom comes when you establish liberty. The Apostle Paul said, stand faster for in the liberty for which Christ has set you free. He said that in prison. And then here we are enjoying freedom, but we have to exercise that liberty for the sake of our congregants. Because again, where the spirit of the Lord is, there's liberty. And if the church isn't going to stand upon that, an oligarchy, whether it's fascism, communism, any ism where the few rule the many, they're going to shut the church down because that's the one entity that declares that our rights don't come from man, they come from God. These are inalienable rights.

B (7:39)

And I believe we are called to confront tyranny. And one example of this is Moses confronting Pharaoh.

A (7:44)

Yep.

B (7:44)

And Moses wasn't exactly the most charismatic person.

A (7:47)

Well, he was at one point in his life in the first 40 years, but then the second 40 years, he

B (7:51)

became this, this, you know, like, tongue twisted.

A (7:53)

Yeah, tongue twisted. Kind of like Jim and Taxi or whatever the guy's name is, you know,

B (7:57)

that's why he had Aaron.

A (7:58)

Yeah, exactly.

B (7:59)

He had a sidekick who spoke for him.

A (8:00)

But when he goes to Pharaoh and he says, God says, let my people go, Pharaoh says, who is God? That I should obey him. That's how all these folks, you know, Governor Newsom, I don't know his faith background, if there is one, but I do know that he has no interest in anything being essential in regards to the church.

B (8:19)

Well, it's a perfect story. Moses, Pharaoh, I think, for what we're going through right now, because it's a contention of who's the actual authority in the story. And Moses was saying, there's actually an authority above you.

A (8:28)

Right.

B (8:28)

And it was hard for Moses to get his words right and to look at him in the eye. And that could be. That's true on the micro level. It's true on the macro level that when you have oppression that supersedes God in a society, you must stand up against it.

A (8:41)

Exactly. I mean, they were contending for the 3 to 5 million Jews that were enslaved by Pharaoh. And God said, let my people go.

B (8:47)

Liberty, Liberty.

A (8:49)

And that was the whole contention. I mean, this is the longest running family meal in world history, which is the Passover, which is setting captives free. And Christ came that we'd know the truth and the truth would set us free.

B (9:00)

During Passover, which is amazing. Well, Christ rose during Passover.

A (9:03)

Amen.

B (9:04)

Which is a fitting for all of it together. So I want to talk politically.

A (9:10)

Yeah, I love that.

B (9:11)

You know, there's a lot of conversation right now in our country. What's happening in our country. I made a point earlier that you and I were talking privately and I'm really excited about a couple things. I'm worried about a lot of things, too, but I like talking about the exciting things as much as the worrying, worrisome things. Just, I think it's actually, it's moral to do that too. I don't think you should be self defeating. I think it's actually, that's not the right way to live life. So I think it's really exciting that, you know, we at Turning point action, our 501c4 political arm, we alongside many other groups and the Trump campaign as well, are in Minnesota contesting for this state of Minnesota.

A (9:47)

Unbelievable that that's in play.

B (9:48)

There's been five polls that have come out that show that Donald Trump's in striking distance in Minnesota. Democrat operatives on the ground in Minnesota say they've never seen anything like this before. Six Democrat mayors in Minnesota have just come out and endorsed Donald Trump. Some of them spoke at the convention. Record riots. They say it's Minnesota nice. They're nice until they burn your church down.

A (10:07)

Exactly.

B (10:08)

And you can be Minnesota nice. However, there's a mechanism to check tyranny, and that's called the voting booth. Amazingly, in 1984, Ronald Reagan won, won the most convincing electoral landslide. Prior to that, Richard Nixon won a pretty incredible1. In 1972, Richard Nixon lost just one state. Massachusetts. Ronald Reagan lost just one state. Minnesota.

A (10:27)

Minnesota, yeah.

B (10:28)

And also Washington, D.C. not a state. And so Donald Trump now, in an amazing way, if you would have told me five years ago, 10 years ago, Republicans would be contesting in a presidential election in Minnesota, I'd say, what are you talking about? So now the industrial Midwest is the Iron Belt. The Iron Belt is now all of a sudden trending in a way that none of us could have anticipated. I think you have a lesson here that's really interesting.

A (10:52)

Yeah.

B (10:53)

That you're deriving from it.

A (10:54)

I am. And that is there's hope for California.

B (10:57)

Tell me why.

A (10:59)

Well, you're describing Minnesota. And my hero, my mentor, when it was pastors being in politics, was obviously Mike Huckabee. And Mike Huckabee ran for office as a pastor. He runs for the Senate and he loses and he loses in a presidential election year and the governor. So, so Clinton ends up winning the presidency, he's no longer governor. So the lieutenant governor becomes governor and they have a special election for lieutenant governor. Now, there hadn't been a Republican elected to lieutenant governor in Arkansas in, before Reconstruction, and he runs as a sacrificial lamb because he just ran the Senate race and he ends up winning and they lock him out of his office and he has to get court orders to occupy the office he was elected to. And when he ran, There was a 135 seat legislature in Arkansas with a handful of Republicans, far less than what California's facing. The entire state was Democrat. And by the time, of course, what happens, similar to Illinois is Arkansas, the governor gets indicted and sent to prison and Mike becomes the governor and then wins reelection. And turns out by the time he leaves office, the entire legislature has changed to Republican. All the federal seats are Republican. And we're looking at California, which has what, 15,280,000 evangelicals. Half have not been registered to vote. I've gone through the data.

B (12:22)

And half of those don't vote.

A (12:23)

And half of half of the ones that registered don't vote.

B (12:25)

Listeners here.

A (12:25)

Yeah, the half of the ones that are registered don't vote. And then 12% only vote in a, in a non presidential election. And now you're watching the church being oppressed by the governor. And these churches are awakening. And pastors, who you would never consider being mindful of the political landscape are now engaging, I mean, massively engaging, and Hispanic pastors. I'm gonna be speaking Saturday to a whole bunch of Hispanic pastors down in San Diego. Those are typically a Democrat voting bloc and they're moving in droves. And so this awakening is occurring. With an awakening comes a revival. And I really do believe that there's hope for California down the stretch, especially when you're watching Nancy Pelosi go in and get her hair done. I mean, what an optic. And you just see the duplicity of these elitists and you see that optic and people just say, you know what, I'm tired of this. And the people, I don't know if you saw the livestream I did with the previous mayor of Nevada City, Renette Senem. She's a secular progressive lesbian. And here we are on a live stream together, a right wing evangelical fundamentalist, you know, pastor, whatever, however they label me. And the two of us, we're getting along swimmingly. Now, granted, our faith positions are wholly different and yet we're in complete agreement to the draconian measures of the governor and what he's doing to the economy of our state. And this is an awakening left, middle and right. And it's exciting because liberty is that source that people are drawn to and they find that the source is Jesus.

B (14:04)

And I think. I totally agree. And the fact that Republicans are contesting in Minnesota shows that any state can be in play at any time. That's what it tells me.

A (14:12)

Oh, well, look at California, what 25 California congressional district, Mike Garcia. But not just you have a pyramid. So you have Mike Garcia, who wins the first time.

B (14:22)

10 points.

A (14:23)

10 points in a. It's been held by Democrats.

B (14:25)

Katie's seat. Yeah.

A (14:26)

Katie Hill's seat been held over 20 years by Democrats. And then you look at the state Senate seat, Scott Wilk is below him. And then below that you had an assembly seat that was held by Democrats. And in the primary, two Republicans won in a jungle primary. So regardless of the outcome of the general election, there's going to be a Republican in that seat. Unheard of.

B (14:44)

Mike Garcia is the only race we have of any sort of indicator of what's going on in this whole era.

A (14:50)

Yep.

B (14:50)

And it's a 10 point to the Republicans. And so I tell people to say, is California lost? I say, well, it might be temporarily difficult right now, but how did we get Minnesota into play? How did we do that?

A (15:02)

And you answer that question for me, the playbook.

B (15:05)

I mean, I come from the Midwest, right. My family's from Austin, Minnesota from a couple generations ago. I know these people. And it's really interesting. It's because the Minnesota was the home of Garrison Keillor, it was the home of Mondale, it was hold of the most Democrat farmer labor union. They called the DFL up there. And these guys were left of left, but they were actually really pro gun. They were strict on immigration. They loved God and they loved faith. But when it came to agriculture, when it came to economics, they were very much, they were much protecting a way of life.

A (15:37)

Right.

B (15:38)

So they called themselves the Democrat Farmer Labor Union and dfl. They were part of the Democrat Party. Then Trump comes along and actually resonates with everything they've always been saying. And the Democrat Party completely left. And what's really interesting is that now there's an entire part of the American population that it's gonna be a little bit of a slow move, but it's happening where they realize this is not the Democrat Party I grew up with at all. The Democrat Party is pandering to foreign nationals, corporate CEOs, Wall Street, Silicon Valley, Manhattan and Malibu celebrities. I don't want, I don't want to associate with them. And so Minnesota is the middle class state in America. It is. If there's a state that just represents what the middle class looks like, it's Minnesota. A lot of Swedes, a lot of Norwegians, which a lot of ways they actually believe in an egalitarian lifestyle where they're very slow to want kind of a brand, kind of a grandiose life. Right. Even though there's plenty of wealthy people in Minnesota. It's just the, it's very much like, it's humble. Right. It's a middle, it's a middle road state. It really is. But they still have some of the greatest companies on the planet through 3M, Target, Best Buy, all came out of Minneapolis. And so now you see an opportunity where these decent, reasonable people. I'm not represented by the foreign national, illegal immigrant, gun grabbing, anti church party anymore. And what's been amazing, here's the incredible thing, and this is the learning lesson for everyone. If it was Mitt Romney's party, we'd lose Minnesota by 12 points.

A (17:00)

Oh, yeah, yeah.

B (17:02)

If it was a party of socially liberal fiscal conservatism, corporate tax cuts, it'd say, I don't want that. But now the party of Donald Trump, we're supposed to say that Trump is the worst thing ever. If you're contesting in Minnesota, you're doing something right.

A (17:13)

Yeah, something's clicking. My big concern with California, and I'm probably going to alienate a number of folks and this is a personal position that I am trying to navigate and understand. But in California, you have a libertarian mindset. And we're watching a number of movements in the state where they want to split the state. And one in particular is New California. There's another one where they want to break California into a number of different.

B (17:40)

Five states.

A (17:41)

Five states. And I understand the mindset because certain segments of California are highly conservative and they're underrepresented in the state legislature and they're beat up. And it's mostly farm communities in the San Joaquin Valley. I'm a graduate of Fresno State and those are good people. And it's a conservative realm. Devin Nunes. And all those come from that area. And I know why they want to do it. But it's also, in my estimation, and here is my opinion, in my estimation, it's troublesome because you're putting a lot of effort in an election year to do conventions and rallies to start a new California when we should be walking precincts and trying to break the super majority in the legislature. And I know that they feel underrepresented, I get that. But they feel as though it's rigged and they want to abandon it. I don't know that it's necessarily beyond accomplishing to win the legislature back. I think that there is an awakening in California and if we focus our efforts and row in the same direction, we can pull this off. But if we split our forces and try to split the state, I just don't know that that's the wisest measure. I don't, I don't bemoan why they want to do that. I get it. But I think we have to. Politics is done by addition and multiplication, not by division and subtraction. So we need to be rowing in the same direction come this election year. If you want to do the split California thing, do it after the election, but don't put all your energies and put all your finances in it right now until after November.

B (19:16)

Do you know one of the reasons why I think California can be flipped eventually?

A (19:19)

Tell me. I'm listening.

B (19:20)

Voted for Bernie Sanders, not for Joe Biden. Think about it.

A (19:23)

Yeah.

B (19:23)

People that vote for Bernie Sanders, some of them are traditional left wing socialist Bolsheviks. Some of them are just mad at the system. Bernie Sanders is the ultimate outrage vote.

A (19:31)

Yeah.

B (19:32)

It means you're upset with everything. It's kind of. It's almost like the left wing equivalent of Donald Trump. And the fact that a lot of people vote for Bernie Sanders, that means they actually believe that trade actually should be in the benefit of the American people. Bernie Sanders is awful on a lot of issues. And also that they actually might be tired of a corporate tyranny that might be controlling their country. These are things that Republicans are on the right side of and Democrats are on the wrong side of. And I think the Nancy Pelosi walking into the hair salon thing is so outrageous, but it's also emblematic of a party that doesn't think they have to earn the votes of the people they represent anymore. You only do that. So I'll give you an example. When I, during the lockdown, someone is like, oh, do you want to go out to a restaurant? I'm like, you know what? I don't. Because if I, you know, first of all, I. It's a lockdown. It's not. This is during. When we didn't know what we were dealing with. Right. For a couple weeks, I was like, also, I actually think there's a cost that if I get photographed at A restaurant or something. Like, I could suffer for that. And I'm accountable to people. Right. I don't want to look like a hypocrite or anything.

A (20:28)

Exactly.

B (20:29)

So when I see Nancy Pelosi do that, I'm like, I'm actually being held accountable more than a member. The speaker of the House. Right.

A (20:35)

Yeah.

B (20:35)

That if I get. If I'm not. If I'm photographed in any sort of way walking through a restaurant or something, on a mask, on front page of something. Right. Nancy Pelosi doesn't even think that way. No, I'm queen.

A (20:46)

It's a salon owner's fault.

B (20:48)

Yeah. It's always set up. Really. It's a business owner's fault.

A (20:53)

The old adage is, when confronted with sin, you can do one of three things. Blame others, make excuses or own it and repent. And she's making excuses and blaming others.

B (21:03)

It's well put.

A (21:03)

Yeah. Well, that's scriptural. I also think, too, that in California there is a tyrannical minority that shames you. And when you see people come into the church. We used to be a church of 400, now we're over 2,500.

B (21:20)

When you see people, it's going to grow from there.

A (21:22)

Oh, well, the building's limited and we have fire codes. But when you see people coming in, they're just so happy to not be judged or shamed and to remove a mask they knew a long time ago was a waste of time. But they can't go into a store without being shamed or ridiculed. And it's. Once we can break from that, I have a feeling Californians are going to realize this. I'll give you a perfect example. You saw the CDC come out. 6% of all Covid attributed deaths, 6% were from COVID The other 94% were with COVID It's the same in Ventura County. A little over 100 deaths attributed to Covid, tragic as they are, but only two. And I don't know the update now, but I know that only two were from COVID The rest, the over 100, were all with COVID We had an overdose guy, he died of an overdose, but when he died, he had Covid. COVID death. Somebody in a car accident, collapsed lung dies. Oh, tested positive.

B (22:19)

Covid.

A (22:19)

COVID death. Because you get money for that. And everyone's saying this is the biggest scam. And everyone who's been opened isn't having issues. And even if they've contracted Covid and they're younger, they didn't even know they had it. 85% of people don't even know they've had it. And yet they're doubling down. The governor's doubling down, and people are like, look, we've played your game. We're done now. And they're at a tipping point in California. This could be huge. But then the thing we have is vote by mail. The Democrats shellacked us in 2018 with ballot harvesting.

B (22:55)

Didn't your wife get multiple ballots, somebody.

A (22:57)

Yep, my wife got multiple ballots.

B (23:00)

Walk us through that. There's. There's a lot of people listening from across the country.

A (23:02)

Yeah.

B (23:03)

So your wife got multiple ballots.

A (23:05)

Yeah, so. So she registered to vote, we moved, she sent in a change of address, and we got two ballots. And you're thinking, well, wait a minute. I mean, that could be a Claire. Claire. But that's two ballots. Now, granted, she's a Republican. At the time, no one knew it was a Republican ballot, but she. She got sent two ballots. We only filled that one, might I add. And. And now you're looking at everyone's gonna get a ballot, everyone's gonna mail it in, and they're saying, well, Trump will win the day of the election. But then, just like it happened in California. Yeah. With young Kim here. She's elected to the Congress. She goes for freshman orientation, and then all of a sudden, the vote by mail ballots start rolling in. She loses by, you know, a small margin. She has to come back, and then the Democrat goes, and that's an Orange county seat. Well, I think Californians have awakened and said, you know what? I don't think we're gonna do it this time. We have to be vigilant. Churches have to awaken. It's not illegal. Run the voter registration. See who in your congregation is registered. Make sure that those ballots are taken to the. A secure setting. The clerk. I wouldn't even put them in the mail because on our ballots, you can tell if it's a Republican or Democrat ballot. They'll throw them away, make sure that those are collected and put in a secure system.

B (24:16)

So do you think vote by mail is one of the impediments from taking California back?

A (24:19)

I think it's dangerous right now, but I think we can overcome it if we're vigilant. And you know me, I'm optimistic. And otherwise, I would have moved out of California because more people left the state of California than came here during the Dust Bowl. But I'm staying because as California goes, so goes the nation. I do believe that there can be a transformation, and I'M watching people who are left of center move into the category of conservative principles.

B (24:48)

Yeah. I think that there's something special that could happen.

A (24:51)

Yeah, I'm optimistic.

B (24:52)

I know you are. So how do you view this race right now, the election in general, Trump versus Biden? What are you seeing? What are you hearing? Well, you have a pastor network all across the country. What are you seeing?

A (25:04)

I haven't heard one pastor declare. I'm so thrilled about Joe Biden. I've heard others say of President Trump, I may not like the way he operates in some capacity, but he's done a remarkable work and I am sympathetic to him. I haven't heard anyone say, I hate the man. And then in California, I don't see Biden signs, but I see Trump signs.

B (25:29)

So you're in California. Did you see Hillary signs back in 2016?

A (25:34)

A handful. Couple of bumper stickers.

B (25:36)

So you saw more Hillary paraphernalia than Biden?

A (25:40)

Oh, yeah. I saw more Hillary paraphernalia than I see Biden for sure.

B (25:44)

You saw more Obama paraphernalia?

A (25:47)

Obama wallpapered the state.

B (25:49)

Really?

A (25:49)

Yeah.

B (25:52)

But isn't Harris the vice president?

A (25:54)

Yeah.

B (25:55)

Nobody likes her, so walk us. So you're trying to tell me that you have a California senator who's on the ballot and you don't have a grassroots display of support?

A (26:06)

Haven't seen anything.

B (26:08)

You think of something to that?

A (26:09)

I do. I pray that it really is that there is this underlying hidden vote that people just don't want to say that they're for Trump because you're going to get your car keyed, you're going to get yelled at. I mean, there's a minority that will shame you and ridicule you. And yet some people are like, I don't care. And you're starting to see this, this brazen support that they're no longer afraid and they're coming out of the shadows. And to put up a Trump sign early on, it was detrimental to any material possession you had. It was going to be damaged. And now people are, hey, I'm in. What are you going to do about it? And you're seeing you go through the oxnard harbor. That's plus 21 democrat in oxnard in Ventura County. There's Trump signs everywhere.

B (26:56)

And no Biden signs.

A (26:57)

No Biden signs.

B (26:59)

Wow.

A (27:00)

I don't know what that's going to tell me, but when I was In Wisconsin in 2016, I came back to the church and I said, trump's going to win this. People are like, ah. And I'm on record. I said it on a Sunday morning because I saw Wisconsin boarded up businesses and Trump signs everywhere, and I said, he's going to win Wisconsin.

B (27:18)

The last poll that was done in Wisconsin had Hillary Clinton up 8. They didn't even bother visit or anything. Yeah, Trump wins Wisconsin.

A (27:24)

And they broadcast out of Minnesota into Wisconsin. It was brilliant.

B (27:27)

I just. That was great, Rob. It's great spending time with you.

A (27:30)

You, too, Charlie.

B (27:31)

I got your back.

A (27:32)

You blessed me. And I know the folks at Godspeak are so grateful for what you're doing, and people have been praying for you and Turning Point. And, Charlie, this is exciting because I was talking to a group of pastors that the comment when they were talking about you, I said, he's autodidactic. Every time I see him, he's got his nose into some thick book, some philosophy book, and you process it and then you make it accessible for an entire generation of young people that aren't getting it in school. And the work you're doing is instrumental. So grateful for you. Keep it up. God bless you.

B (28:08)

Yeah, appreciate that.

A (28:09)

You rock. Thanks.

B (28:13)

So there's one. One part I actually wanted to touch on. We could put in the music thing. So, Rob, you guys have fought against masks for singing in church, Is that right?

A (28:21)

Yeah, we. You can't fellowship and sing with masks on, and you can't fellowship with social distancing. And neither of them have empirical data, and we're not going to allow that to occur, and we haven't had an outbreak. But, you know, Charlie, I'm intrigued because, as I said earlier, you always have your nose in a book and you're processing deep theological thoughts, and you had opened up. And I want you to elaborate, if you would, on Augustine.

B (28:47)

Yeah, St. Augustine.

A (28:48)

Yeah. Yeah. In regards to worship. Talk to me about that, because that was fascinating.

B (28:52)

Yeah, it was really interesting. I was reading St. Augustine, who's one of the most incredibly important Christian thinkers who theorized on music. And his whole theory, which I think is completely correct, is that music is something that is spiritual in nature. It is not physical in nature. And you actually look at the Bible. The largest book of the Bible is Psalms, which is praising the Lord, all Psalms. The last book of Psalms is Praise the Lord with trumpets and with drums and actual instruments. And the Darwinists and the secularists, if you actually press them, they can't actually explain what music is. It's very interesting. It's one of the few things they can't explain. There's no evolutionary argument for music. Now. They. Some People will wrongly say, well, birds, they sing. Well, they sing, but they don't make music. Right. And so if humans actually did have an evolutionary connection with birds, which is questionable at very, very best, then why isn't it that humans use singing as mating?

A (29:45)

Right?

B (29:45)

So that doesn't make any sense. So the musical components is. The spiritual aspect is very interesting. And so this is actually kind of. You can actually tell a lot about a culture, about the music that you embrace. And so that's actually why we have such awful music today, is because there's an atonal nature to our music. When you saw the greatest resurgence of human enlightenment and kind of that breakthrough of Western society, the greatest composers ever break out, Bach and Mozart. And so as you kind of have a pursuit towards truth, by definition you're going to have music that has tonality and rhythm. That's exactly what Augustine said. He said certain music makes you feel a certain way because it actually harmonizes with your soul and your spirit. And I actually would go as far to say, and there's a great book, this is the book that actually built your world by a guy named Vishal, an incredible last name Pastor Ken Graves gave to me. Actually. It's an incredible book where he actually argued back 10 years ago, 2010, he said Kurt Cobain has more influence on the musical and philosophical and spiritual direction of a country. And he said people are more likely not to listen to Kurt Cobain than to joy to the world. I think that's really interesting. Kurt Cobain from Nirvana, he actually was the truest nihilist. He committed suicide. Nihilism in its purest form is actually that unlike some of the other nihilistic thinkers that justified their way out of self sacrifice. So I think that your fight against masks is not insignificant. Actually, I think it's really important because singing to the Lord and actually knowing what music is and its rep, it's not just an activity that blows off some steam. There's a connection to it. There's something more than just saying the words. And the Bible tells us that you

A (31:18)

commented that if birds sing for the sake of mating, well, mankind can use music towards that. I mean, just bumping music and all, it is a vertical expression of a horizontal desire. Right? But worship music at its highest level is this pursuit of excellence, where the soul connects with God. And that is critical. So when you bring that up, Charlie, that's what floors me about the gift God's given you. You are taking a conceptual thought, applying it scripturally, and understanding this nature that God's given man. And it really is a desire for us to achieve excellence. And it's a great insight, a great gift God's given you. I'm blessed by that.

B (32:01)

The last note on this, though, which is interesting, is that the great dictators always ban music first.

A (32:05)

Yeah.

B (32:05)

And that's a. That's not an insignificant conclusion. Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao. They go after the musicians. They go after public assembly of music. Because when you have music, people actually believe and they have a connection greater than the higher power. And music is so accessible today. We have it on our phone, we have it on our radio. Music used to be something that people would travel half a year to go here, here. One concert in Vienna, people would come from the countryside just to hear the sound of a violin or the sound of a piano. It used to be something that was so rare, and we take it for granted now. Used to be something that people would build an entire civilization around. I mean, Vienna was literally the home of Mozart. So I think that it's. It that it's interesting that now they're trying to get rid of music in our pews. Literally do not sing.

A (32:43)

Yep.

B (32:44)

I don't think that's insignificant.

A (32:46)

Last. Last thought on that. You know, John Newton, who wrote Amazing Grace, was a slave trader. And so if you. You look at. You look at Library of Congress, it says words by John Newton, melody unknown. And the melody is all minor keys on the piano. And I've heard it said that the melody to Amazing Grace is a West African sorrow chant. So John Newton was on top of the deck of the ship hearing the groanings and the sorrow chant of these slaves. He would live with these visions in his mind and was tormented by what he'd done. And when he gives his heart to the Lord and spends the rest of his life, especially moving William Wilberforce to end slavery in the British Empire 35 years before America. This becomes America's anthem, spiritual anthem, Amazing Grace. And it combines these cultural realms to touch the heart of every human soul because it combines freedom, it combines slavery, it combines redemption and understanding. I mean, what a profound. And that's the beauty of music. So kudos. You nailed it.

B (33:57)

Thank you. Well, music is. Music can explain that what words can never. And it's something that we kind of put aside.

A (34:04)

So thanks, Charlie.

B (34:05)

You bet. Thanks so much for listening, everybody. I encourage all of you to get involved with Turning Point USA to help us educate, activate, and motivate the next generation around the values of free markets, limited government, and American exceptionalism. Turning Point USA tpusa.com is the premier organization fighting for these values on campuses across the country. If you guys want to win a signed copy of the New York Times bestseller the Maga Doctrine, type in Charlie Kirk for your podcast provider hit, subscribe, give us a five star review, screenshot it, and then email us freedom charliekirk.com freedomarliekirk.com and if you guys want me to answer your question, and if I select your question, you win assigned copy of the MAGA Doctrine. We are answering your questions tomorrow at the Ask Me Anything, so just email us your questions directly. Freedom charliekirk.com Freedom charlie kirk.com thanks so much everybody. God Bless. Talk to you soon.