Charlie and Michael Knowles Debate Religion at AmFest

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show – "Charlie and Michael Knowles Debate Religion at AmFest"

Release Date: January 2, 2025

In this compelling episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Charlie Kirk engages in a dynamic and unscripted debate with fellow conservative commentator Michael Knowles at America Fest (AmFest). The discussion delves deep into the intersections of religion, politics, and cultural shifts within America, particularly focusing on the influence of grassroots activism on college campuses and the evolving landscape of the Republican Party.

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1. Turning Point USA's Influence on Youth Voting

Charlie Kirk opens the debate by highlighting the significant role of Turning Point USA in mobilizing young voters. He emphasizes the organization's grassroots efforts across over 3,500 campuses nationwide and showcases impressive polling data demonstrating a 15-point shift in youth voting patterns in areas where Turning Point USA was active compared to a mere 1-point change in control groups.

Charlie Kirk [02:17]: "We have the polling to now show it of how the states and the campuses that we actually hit on the precinct level moved by an average of 15 points."

Michael Knowles concurs, attributing the success to targeted activism that resonated with young voters disillusioned by traditional Democratic strategies.

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2. Shifts in Political Alignment Among Young Men

The conversation transitions to the noticeable shift in political alignment among young men on college campuses. Michael notes a dramatic swing from a 21-point Democratic advantage in 2018 to a 13-point Republican lead, attributing this change to decades of liberal rhetoric that alienated male demographics.

Michael Knowles [06:12]: "It turns out when you tell a group of people that you hate them for 20 years, eventually they hear you. They say, oh, well, maybe I don't really like you all that much either."

Kirk echoes this sentiment, discussing how symbols like the MAGA hat have transitioned from rebellious attire to mainstream acceptance, reflecting broader cultural acceptance of conservative symbols.

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3. The Evolution of MAGA Symbols on Campuses

Exploring the transformation of the MAGA hat's perception, Kirk reminisces about its early days as a rebellious symbol that required discreet display on campuses. Today, it has become a widely accepted and desirable accessory among students, indicative of the shifting cultural climate.

Michael Knowles [08:04]: "The media could say this is a symbol of white supremacy... But we know that isn't true now. The media have lost a lot of their credibility."

Kirk adds a personal anecdote about distributing 25,000 MAGA hats, emphasizing the overwhelming positive reception from students.

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4. Politics Leading Culture and Vice Versa

A significant portion of the debate addresses the complex relationship between politics and cultural shifts. Michael posits that both domains influence each other in a symbiotic dance, making it challenging to discern which leads.

Michael Knowles [12:07]: "You know, politics leading culture... It's sort of like a waltz. You don't necessarily know who's leading."

Kirk suggests that recent political developments, such as unified government control and legislative actions, indicate that politics may be exerting a stronger influence on cultural norms.

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5. Internal Divisions Within the Republican Party

The discussion shifts to the current state of the Republican Party, highlighting ideological diversity and internal hostility as key barriers to unified action against Democratic initiatives.

Michael Knowles [20:12]: "With the Republicans, though, you legitimately have the country club set, the populists, the neocons... they all kind of hate each other."

Kirk underscores the frustration with Congressional Republicans negotiating away to Democratic demands, viewing it as a betrayal despite a strong popular vote victory.

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6. Donald Trump's Political Resilience and Media Relations

Kirk and Knowles examine President Donald Trump's unwavering support within the party and his strategic handling of media defamation. Michael praises Trump's ability to maintain composure despite multiple indictments and relentless media scrutiny.

Michael Knowles [17:40]: "This guy, he just keeps on moving... He's a complete American original."

They also critique traditional media outlets for their biased portrayal of Trump, advocating for a redefined relationship between the presidency and the media.

Michael Knowles [42:49]: "They lie, so they're not credible... Kick them out."

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7. Debating the Role of the Catholic Church in Modern America

A substantial segment of the debate focuses on the Catholic Church's influence and its alignment with contemporary conservative values. Kirk expresses skepticism about certain Catholic dogmas and the papacy's role, while Michael offers insights into evangelization and maintaining religious unity.

Michael Knowles [25:49]: "What you should do is recite the St. Thomas Aquinas prayer... Pray a little bit more."

Kirk challenges the functional role of the papacy, questioning its relevance and effectiveness in enforcing doctrinal purity within the Church.

Charlie Kirk [30:37]: "There's no functional use for a pope for 150 years."

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8. Audience Engagement: Advice for Aspiring Commentators

The debate includes interactive segments where audience members pose questions. One notable interaction involves advice for aspiring political commentators, with both Kirk and Michael offering perspectives on education and personal development.

Michael Knowles [44:46]: "Don't become famous too early... Delve into yourself before you put yourself out there."

Kirk emphasizes self-drive and determination over formal education, advocating for practical experience and personal initiative.

Charlie Kirk [45:34]: "I have drive. If you want to be good, you can be good. So decide to do it."

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9. Addressing Media Defamation and Slander Claims

An audience member from Phoenix raises concerns about media defamation following Trump being named Person of the Year, citing a Metro UK headline equating Trump with historical figures like Hitler and Stalin. Kirk and Michael respond by highlighting instances where Trump has already benefited financially from defamation lawsuits and question the legitimacy of such comparisons.

Charlie Kirk [41:57]: "I don't think you could sue on it because I guess it's technically true, right?"

Michael encourages Trump to leverage his press room seating and exclude biased media outlets to reclaim narrative control.

Michael Knowles [42:49]: "Kick them out. Why would we reward those people who lie?"

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10. Conclusion: The Path Forward for Conservative Activism

As the debate concludes, Kirk reiterates the importance of internal consolidation within the Republican Party and continuing efforts to maintain cultural and political momentum. Both commentators express optimism about the potential for future conservative successes, emphasizing the need for strategic activism and resistance against liberal policies.

Charlie Kirk [24:36]: "We have a lot of work to do internally in the Republican Party... If you live in South Dakota, Idaho, Iowa, Mississippi, we're not going to put up with this."

Michael summarizes the dual forces shaping America's future, blending cultural realignments with political strategies.

Michael Knowles [13:35]: "There are cultural changes that happen... But also the law is a teacher."

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Notable Quotes:

• Charlie Kirk [02:17]: "We have the polling to now show it of how the states and the campuses that we actually hit on the precinct level moved by an average of 15 points."

• Michael Knowles [06:12]: "The Democrats, the liberals have literally been calling men toxic for decades."

• Charlie Kirk [08:04]: "The media have lost a lot of their credibility."

• Michael Knowles [20:12]: "With the Republicans, though, you legitimately have the country club set, the populists, the neocons... they all kind of hate each other."

• Michael Knowles [17:40]: "He's a complete American original."

• Charlie Kirk [30:37]: "There's no functional use for a pope for 150 years."

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show offers an in-depth exploration of the current socio-political climate in America, emphasizing the transformative impact of conservative activism on youth voting patterns, the shifting dynamics within college campuses, and the ongoing challenges facing the Republican Party. Through insightful dialogue, Kirk and Knowles provide a roadmap for navigating and influencing the cultural and political arenas in favor of conservative values.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Michael Knowles joins the program. Everybody, this is what people said was the best interview from America Fest. Michael Knowles decided to be a little aggressive, a little uppity, a little chippy, where he decided to poke fun at Protestants. And we held the line, I think, pretty well. This was unscripted, not planned, where I guess we very, in a friendly way, debate Catholicism versus Protestantism. Who won this debate? Email me freedomarliekirk.com I want to hear from you. And it goes on for like 30 minutes. So become a member. Members.charliekirk.com that is members.charliekirk. com Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[Michael Knowles]

I want you to know we are.

[Charlie Kirk]

Lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[Michael Knowles]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy.

[Charlie Kirk]

His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever.

[Michael Knowles]

Created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives, and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com Michael, welcome.

[Michael Knowles]

It's wonderful to be with you, Charlie, and with all of you.

[Charlie Kirk]

So can I.

[Michael Knowles]

Before you introduce, before you do anything, it kills me to say anything sincere and nice about you, but I think I have to. When we were setting this up, you know, your producer Andrew was joking with me because I said, I think the time will work this that he goes, michael, you know, it's a big honor to be invited on the show. I said, bro, you're kidding. But it is legitimately a great honor to be on the show right now when you, as much as just about anyone in the country, won this election for President Trump. It's unbelievable. It's like President Trump and then a handful of people. And you're one of those people.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, thank you. And it's the team that deserves the credit at Turning Point. It's not me. The team believed and we worked hard and we did something that would be called very risky, but we hired 1,500 people in a couple states and I did 25 campus stops and tours. And we have. It's really amazing. We have the polling to now show it of how the states and the campuses that we actually hit on the precinct level moved by an average of 15 points. And then we had a control group of the campuses. We didn't hit that only move by one point. And so it goes to show how turning point action helped move the youth vote. And in fact, if Kamala Harris just would have done one thing, if she just. She just had to do one thing. She just had to get young people to vote the same way they did in 2020, and she would have won. Yeah, that's it. If young people just would have voted the way they did in 2020. That's why all the national polling was off. It wasn't that far off with every other age group. It was off with young people. That was where the modeling was off the most and the polling always assuming that young people were going to vote with similar habits as they did in 2020. And it turns out we shocked the world.

[Michael Knowles]

I think there are two reasons for that. One is the obvious, that Kamala Harris is not the most exciting candidate in the world. It turns out that when you replace the president, who is in senility with a woman who no one has ever voted for in their entire lives, that probably she's not gonna do very well. But then the other one is the ideological aspect, that young Democrats in particular decided to go buy a lot of keffiyehs and campaign for Islamists in the Middle East. That is gonna create an electoral problem for the Democrat establishment.

[Charlie Kirk]

So, Michael, you do a lot of campus stuff alongside. I mean, with us and with other people, just what's going on with young men? Campuses kind of give us your thoughtful analysis, because there is a change. There's something profound. You've played a role. We've played a role. What is going on?

[Michael Knowles]

It's extraordinarily encouraging to go to campuses now. And when you get questions from the right, they're better questions than they used to be on the right. On the right. It used to be kind of simple stuff. Now it's questions about virtue. It's questions about forming families. It's question. You know, it's not just like, cut my taxes kind of questions. So you've got these profound questions on the right. And then even when the libs walk up, I find this. The libs will walk up, and maybe they'll heckle you, maybe they'll insult you in some way. But I do get this Sense. They are sincerely trying to understand something which I don't think was true two years ago or three years ago. And I think it's because after this election, I was talking to very liberal friends and relatives of mine and I said, so, you know, how you feeling? Happy Thanksgiving. And. But my liberal friends and relatives, they were not furious. They didn't throw the plate at the wall. They would say, you know, I don't. I guess I just don't really get the country anymore. I guess something was wrong with my prediction in part because he won the popular vote. You know, I can't. You can't even say it was just white guy. You know, it was one in five black guys. It was almost half of Hispanics. It was a lot of women, 40% of women under 30. Crazy demographics. And so I said, I don't know. I guess we just don't know. You saw AOC saying, which. Which of the right wing podcast bros should I listen to? She's probably insane, obviously.

[Charlie Kirk]

Charlie Kirk Show.

[Michael Knowles]

And everyone was saying that right after she finished watching the Michael Knowles show, she was supposed to watch the Charlie Kirk show. But she was sincere about it, or at least she wanted her followers to think she was sincere. They realized they lost something and they're kind of out of excuses. So they need to create a new mental model.

[Charlie Kirk]

With young men in particular. It's a dramatic shift. In 2018, young men were approximately 21 points in, 22 points in the Democrat direction. Now it's 13 points in the Republican direction. What explains that movement?

[Michael Knowles]

It turns out when you tell a group of people that you hate them for 20 years, eventually they hear you. They say, oh, well, maybe I don't really like you all that much either. So that's a big problem. I mean, the Democrats, the liberals have literally been calling men toxic for decades. They've been saying things like, the future is female. They of course, flunked biology class in middle school. So they don't know if there is to be a future, it needs to involve both men and women. You know, that's kind of how the future is made. And so to hear that Hillary, when she used that slogan, she thought it was just a sweet girl power kind of line. But men were listening, too. And women were listening too, by the way. Women who have sons, women who have husbands, women who have brothers and fathers, they were listening to that too. So nasty. There's an old line that people used to say. They said there will never be a war between the sexes because everyone is sleeping with the enemy. And I don't know that that's true anymore. I don't know. These days, it's a little more confused. But there is some truth. You know, the fundamental things apply. As time goes by, a kiss is still a kiss, A sigh is still a sigh. I think people are recognizing men and women are really complementary to one another. The era of men being buffoons and women being absolutely perfect, the Homer Simpson era, the Ray Romano E, I think that is passe. I think it's dated. And wherever the culture is now on these questions, it ain't that.

[Charlie Kirk]

And on the campuses in particular, there's a cultural vibe shift where. Let's just take the MAGA hat. You know, some of these folks are wearing Maga hats. That MAGA hat, you know, this Michael in 2016, 2017, was like, the ultimate symbol of, like, rebel energy. And now it's still that. But it's. It's way easier to wear that hat in public. In fact, it's desirable and it's cool. How did that happen?

[Michael Knowles]

Because now, previously, the media could say this is a symbol of white supremacy. This is a symbol of violence against Tanzanian women of color. I don't know. Whatever is minor, you know, group. But we know that isn't true now. The media have lost a lot of their credibility. The news now happens on X and a handful of other places, and most people voted for Trump. So we know that. I mean, I don't mean to belabor the point of the popular vote. As a matter of law, it doesn't matter. But in the public consciousness, it really, really matters. Most people want to wear that hat. So I've had my. I've had my OG Maga hat since 16. It was the white one with the blue font. It's great. I brought it to Havana with me, and I snuck it out and took a picture in front of Che Guevara in Revolution Square. But you had to, in those days, forget about Revolution Square on a college campus, you'd have to sneak it out.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, yeah.

[Michael Knowles]

Really.

[Charlie Kirk]

And now it's just now we gave out, like, 25,000 of them.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

And we had kids that were mad they didn't get one.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

And these videos, and we're throwing them.

[Michael Knowles]

Out because it's just, you know, in part, I think it's because of. The millennials now are old, and the zoomers are hip and young and cool. I find myself to be a spiritual zoomer, but I'm a millennial by birth. And, you know, the millennials were all about Obama and kind of nice liberalism. And everyone had to be at least like half gay. And, you know, it was all everyone, I don't know, just really artsy. And they listened to like hipster music and they all spoke like vocal fry and whatever. That was the aesthetic of the millennials.

[Charlie Kirk]

So true.

[Michael Knowles]

And it's just not, whenever the next thing comes about, they can't be that, that can't be cool anymore. So if Obama was the man for the millennials, what's the opposite of Obama? It's Trump.

[Charlie Kirk]

The total opposite.

[Michael Knowles]

The exact opposite of Obama.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Michael Knowles]

When you have a media mogul, reality TV star, global celebrity for 45 years as the president of the United States, I guess my question is, what's the difference? You know, it's not as the. I don't think really you can ever have a neat separation of culture and politics, but certainly not today. Not with this guy. I mean, this guy is the biggest pop culture figure of his age and the most consequential president of his age, the guy making the laws. So there are two things that are happening and you can think of even without one leading the other. It's sort of like a waltz. You don't necessarily Know who's leading. There are cultural changes that happen. The passing away of old fashions, the displeasure with some of the consequences of liberalism, the gutting of manufacturing and the stagnating economy and the mass migration and whatever you name it, collapse of the family. But also the law is a teacher.

[Charlie Kirk]

Galatians 3.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do Catholics know the Bible?

[Michael Knowles]

We occasionally, every so often, we will open up. We have to hide it though. We know, you know, we have to make.

[Charlie Kirk]

But there's 66 books, by the way.

[Michael Knowles]

That's a good start. The 66 are a good start. That's the hors d'oeuvre. But even you know, even we're talking about the Bible. But even you know, that idea that the law is a teacher, that also comes from classical philosophy. I mean that is something everyone knew forever until like us five minutes ago. And then all the wisdom of the ages, both revealed and also natural, has just flown out the window. So I think there's this great conservative consolation that Russell Kirk writes about, which is that unrelated, for the record, unrelated though if only. He's a spiritual father to you. Russell Kirk observed that things are always going bad for our conservatives and the libs are always on the move and they're destroying things and it's easy to destroy, but reality does reassert itself in the end. You're not going to beat reality. Reality is undefeated. And I think the libs, they moved so far from the common sense. Transing the kids is just the most extreme example. But there are others. They move so far from reality. Reality came roaring back.

[Charlie Kirk]

And so where does that leave us now as far as the cultural landscape, what we can expect, both politically and culturally?

[Michael Knowles]

I think we can expect an opportunity. That's all I'm willing to say. I'm not willing to tell you what happens in four years. I'm not willing to tell you what happens in two years. I mean, for goodness sakes, we have unified government right now. We have the House, the Senate, the presidency. We already had the Supreme Court. The Democrats, they talked about expanding the Supreme Court, remember, before the election. I think maybe we should take them up on that offer now. I mean, just in a bipartisan spirit, maybe reach across the aisle, add another 50 or 100 justices, but we have a unified government right now that are.

[Charlie Kirk]

All 38 years old, that are all 18.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I want 18 year old Thomases and Alitos.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's a bunch of turning point kids are going to be on the court. That's right.

[Michael Knowles]

Love that idea. So you've Got someone yelled out. No excuses. Yeah, no excuses. But don't worry, there will be. Spoiler alert. There will be.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, that's right.

[Michael Knowles]

Because you see what's happening right now in the House of Representatives trying to wrangle that. The House Republicans is like herding cats. So Trump has two years to really do something, and what can he do in that time? You can only really do a handful of things at best, and that's without being stymied by the courts and the bureaucrats and everyone else.

[Charlie Kirk]

And the intel agencies.

[Michael Knowles]

And the intel agencies and all of these. And private interests, too. So it's like you've got all of these forces working against you. What does that mean for us in the future? It means a slight turn of the head, an unexpected jerk of the head at the perfect angle in the perfect moment in a field in Pennsylvania gave us this chance. And so you can rise to the occasion or don't, but that's a pretty providential chance. So how about you take it?

[Charlie Kirk]

So you had the President's back throughout this entire process, Other people waxed and waned, and that's fine. I mean, that's their prerogative. Why did you continue to support President Trump resolutely throughout the process? Because you were kind of part of this, and obviously I was this merry band of rebels where, I mean, is it that you just kind of loved being kind of the high IQ troll, or was it just kind of like, you know, it's just because Michael, to your great credit, and you deserve credit, is after January six, all this, you were like, nope, not going to say something bad about Trump. Like, he, like, Michael is like super Maga and has always been. Why? I mean, explain that. Because you were not just early, you were there on new day one, January 7, 2021.

[Michael Knowles]

That's a great way actually to look at it. But part of it is because I saw what Trump was and what he was doing and what he signified early on, not immediately. When he came down the golden escalator, I had my doubts, I had my questions. At the very least. I wasn't sure who knew this guy had maybe sort of run for President in 2000. He made some noise in 2012, 2016. I said, I don't know, let's just pay attention. Seems kind of crazy. I'm a New Yorker. I've been aware of Donald Trump since I was in the womb, basically. And so I said, okay, well, let's hear him out. Then I realized every time they said he was crazy about something, he was upsetting some orthodoxy. This just isn't how it's done. He's gonna go nowhere. I noticed that he would win politically. I noticed that his policies advanced the common good in ways that some of his predecessors were not able to do. I realized the guy. And I don't care what you wanna say. I don't care if he's long dissertations every night before bed. I don't care if he's just moving by his gut. It's probably a little bit more of the latter, though. He's obviously a very intelligent and educated man as well. I realized this guy was just getting things right. He was offering a legitimate alternative on policies. He was throwing out some of the desiccated nonsense that had become GOP orthodoxy. And he just had you mentioned high IQs and education. Let's use a very fancy word. The man has thumos. The man has the Greek word for spiritedness for the chest. You know, this guy's got it in spades. And then the January 6 thing I thought was just so convenient for not only Trump's enemies on the left, but his enemies on the right to finally throw him overboard. And I thought it was so cynical in many ways. And some people were legitimately kind of duped by.

[Charlie Kirk]

Can I interject on that? It was also all of you that kept on desiring the Truth for January 6th. We have won that argument. And they are running from the hills, by the way. They are running for the hills where? How many federal agents were there who planted the pipe bombs?

[Michael Knowles]

Did you see they said headlines the other day when this report came out? I saw the inspector general. There were no FBI agents anywhere near January 6th other than the 26 informants. Yeah, hold on. Wait, what was that second part? Oh, no. There were no breaking news. No, the report, the IG report said there were 26 FBI assets there, three of whom were told to go there.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And if you actually read the headline more carefully, they say none of them were involved in the crimes. And so I. Wait, hold on. Oh, wait. But they were, like, telling them to do the crimes and, like, organizing them. This was a Fed shrection on January the sixth is what it was.

[Michael Knowles]

Right, Right. And so you saw that happen. But then I would point to one additional moment beyond the golden elevator, beyond January 7th. One additional moment was the fourth time Trump was indicted over the past six months. They tried to kick him off the ballot. Didn't work. They tried. They investigated him. That didn't scare him off. They indict him. They indict him. They indict him. They indict him. They indict him. And the fourth time he walks out and what does he do? He gives a news conference. And this guy doesn't break a sweat. He's strong, he's cool. This guy never lets them see him sweat. And I thought if this, this would have broken any politician in the country. The fact that this guy, it looks like he just walked off the golf course, you know, the fact that. And he just keeps on moving, I thought this is a once in a lifetime American political talent. He's a complete American original. And so why Trump? Why not any of the other guys? There were other talented people who wanted to be president. It's just him, man. It's just his moment. You know, he's the guy. I know narrative is a real force in human life, and the narrative right now is about him as one of the main characters.

[Charlie Kirk]

Let's get some questions here going so Daisy can work the mic around. I want to get to as many as we can, Michael, as we start running the mic around the. The current state of the Republican Party, why is it that Republicans are so willing to cut deal deals to put Joe Biden's nominees in place, but not Donald Trump's? The state of the current Republican Party, what is that all about?

[Michael Knowles]

The short answer is because there is ideological diversity and hostility on the right. So the Democrats are basically all progressives of one shade or another now. I mean, now that Manchin's kind of done, I think they're all progressives of one shade or another. With the Republicans, though, you legitimately have the country club set, you know, the chamber of commerce kind. You've got the populists, you got the neocons, you got the traditionalists, you got the libertarians, you got, you know, I've heard it described that obscure political monikers are the right wing version of gender pronouns. We just all seem to have our own version of it. So that's a real problem, is they all kind of hate each other. And then the other problem is that they've gotten used to being the minority partner, the junior partner in the governing apparatus. So they want to be the court jesters in the kingdom of liberalism is basically what they do. And they're happy to do that. They can have a nice enough life doing that. But I thought, good grief, with this continuing resolution, I thought, how to be a Republican Congressman? One, you get elected, you win everything. The people give you unified government. Step two, you try to give Democrats everything they want. Then step three, Elon, Musk and Trump tell you that you can't do that. You know what step four is? You wait to try to do it again next time.

[Charlie Kirk]

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[Michael Knowles]

You know, the craziest one, to me, there were all these provisions that people didn't like, but the one that really irritated me, they were changing in the cr. They were changing the US Code, they were changing the term offender, like a criminal offender to justice involved individual.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, no way.

[Michael Knowles]

Now, whatever you want to say about.

[Charlie Kirk]

Criminals, I didn't know that.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

So you actually read the Bill, I.

[Michael Knowles]

Didn'T read the whole thing. I read, you know, I do have some better things to do in my life, but I read a fair bit of it, and in it, it changes this term. Whatever you want to say about criminals, the only thing that you can definitively say they are not is justice involved individuals. They are injustice involved individuals. They insisted in the US Code of changing homelessness to no, the homeless, to persons experiencing homelessness. I thought this was the urgent matter that we have to get before Christmas.

[Charlie Kirk]

It'd be one thing if we lost the election. Whatever, guys. The American handed us a popular vote win, and your Congressional Republicans go back and decide to just stab us all in the back. That thing's dead on arrival. But we have a lot of work to do internally in the Republican Party. If you live in South Dakota, Idaho, Iowa, Mississippi, we're not going to put up with this. Okay, question over here.

[C]

Hi, my name is Benny Masarigos. I am here from Phoenix, Arizona. And first, I want to thank you so much, Mr. Kirk, because you are definitely an inspiration to so many people, especially myself. I just graduated high school. I graduated high school a couple years back, and I went to nine different high schools 11 different times. And you are just an inspiration. So thank you so much. And my question, Mr. Knowles, is I am a Catholic who reads the Bible and believes that there's 73.

[Charlie Kirk]

I was kidding, by the way.

[Michael Knowles]

See, there's another one. There's another one.

[C]

You're okay. So my question. We love you, too. My question. My question is I'm actually considering creating content to try to bring Catholicism back to. To America to spread the love, specifically using Bible verses. And I. I know you're Catholic, so thank you so much for that.

[Charlie Kirk]

So new. I never. This is like.

[Michael Knowles]

It's shocking.

[Charlie Kirk]

I know.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, I actually paid him to be here.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I know he's on the Knowles payroll.

[C]

So my question to you, because you're such an inspiration to Catholicism, Schnollz, what advice would you give to somebody who's trying to spread the love of the Eucharist to the world?

[Michael Knowles]

Okay, well, you know, that's wonderful that you're gonna do that. I think it's great. Most of the time, people say, michael, I want to start a podcast. What's your advice? And my advice is don't, because too many people have them. And I think every white man under the age of 75 has one now, and it's by law or something, but this is the first time in memory that someone has proposed some new content project Where I thought, great, you should do that. That's really good. And my advice is you should recite the St. Thomas Aquinas prayer that he would have before study or writing or speaking for God to illumine his darkened mind. And then what you should do is, you know, pray a little bit more. Praying is the first resort, not the last resort. And then this is something, Charlie, that, you know, we macro snappers. We get. We don't need to. We don't need to, you know, reinvent the wheel every year. We got 2,000 years of people who are much smarter than you and I who have thought this out, who have debated these questions. So if you just bring that. If you convey that this is. I'm trying to sell Charlie on this right now. I know I'm answering you, but I'm really speaking to Charlie. If you just do that, that's all you're doing. You're just. You're just telling the story. You're telling the greatest story ever told. And you have the deposit of faith and you have the magisterium behind you as a hermeneutic of interpretation. But just do that, you know, and do that in sincerity and do that with the best of your effort. And I think it'll be wonderful as.

[Charlie Kirk]

As an evangelical who loves Catholics. I love that you're doing it, but let me just. Let me just edit.

[Michael Knowles]

Here's the but. Here's the but.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no, it's a big one. You didn't catch it, Michael, is that your goal should be to bring people to Jesus, not Catholicism.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on.

[Charlie Kirk]

What's the difference?

[Michael Knowles]

What's the. I don't think.

[Charlie Kirk]

What's the.

[Michael Knowles]

Hold on, hold on.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm not saying that they're contradictory, but your goal should not be to bring people to a specific sect of Christianity. It is to bring people to the cross.

[Michael Knowles]

You're saying to bring people to the fullness of the truth and the universality.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, but not the maxims of every Catholic dogma. No. I mean, for example, am I a Christian if I don't believe in Mariology?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, we're talking about the fullness of the truth. You know, we're talking about. But you still.

[Charlie Kirk]

Am I a Christian if I don't believe in transubstantiation?

[Michael Knowles]

You are a little confused if you don't believe. But you. But you can. But you can have sincere. But you can have sincere.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it's fine. I just. I think that bringing people to Catholicism is fine. Of course. Great, terrific. But that is, hopefully a means to the ultimate end. You exist to bring to people to.

[Michael Knowles]

Yes, no, of course.

[Charlie Kirk]

And that is the goal. I'm just maybe being semantically, you know.

[Michael Knowles]

But think about this question. If what happens when you want to bring people to our Lord? And what happens when there are disagreements over important things?

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, not we schism and say you guys got it wrong or we do a reformation, you know, so we're.

[Michael Knowles]

At, we're at Christmas right now. We're at Christmas time. We're talking about St Nicholas, you know, Santa Claus.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm about Jesus and.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, no, but I'm talking about Santa Claus. There's. Before we talk about our Lord, the. But, but you know, there's this story.

[Charlie Kirk]

Characters Jesus, this focus on the main thing.

[Michael Knowles]

But there's this story about St. Nicholas who. The legend, I don't think it's literally true, but the legend goes that St. Nicholas, who Santa Claus is based on, shows up to the Council of Nicaea and he smacks the heresiarch Arius, who denied the divinity of Christ, smacks him in the face. And this has led to a meme that I really like at Christmas, which is an icon of St Nicholas and it says I've come here to give presents to children and to punch heretics in the face and I'm all out of presence. And so I don't know, I don't think it really happened. And it would have been a corrective slap and all the rest. But the serious question is what happens when someone has a, a question on something really important, like is Christ God? You know, the divinity of Christ? There has to be an interpretive hermeneutic to figure it out. Of course.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. And look to be very clear, like nine out of 10 of Catholic dogmas, evangelicals hold. Nine out of 10. Right. And that, that is why I believe Catholics are Christian, even though you don't give me that same. No, I would. No, I'm giving you a hard time. And I mean that again, if you are a Catholic who loves Jesus, therefore, and I know that just. I believe that there are personally some fundamental issues with, like I say, Mariology, transubstantiation, which we're not going to get into, but the biggest one is the papacy. I can't get over the idea of this Marxist who calls himself the head of your church, being a representation of Christ our Lord. I just. And I mean that as someone who loves the Catholic impact on the world that says it openly and by the fruit, you will know it and you have very Marxist fruit.

[Michael Knowles]

But what I guess my My, my sort of last question on.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is it. Your last question.

[Michael Knowles]

Evangelization.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is evangelism or evangelization?

[Michael Knowles]

But both. Okay, what, what happens when we get the next pope? Can we pull you over then? You know what if we get like.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I will say, I mean, John Paul II was amazing. I just think that there is, there is a question to be asked of why is that specific process, that mechanism given more merit than, let's just say, the local church and, or the word of God? And you would say, okay, interpretation, you.

[Michael Knowles]

Know, the final resolution to.

[Charlie Kirk]

Fine, that's fine. I just that I would. I asked the question, if you are all in on, you know, the papacy and the Vatican, no practicing Catholic can look and say, this is the best that my religion has to offer.

[Michael Knowles]

Charlie, you're thinking too much about it. You got to have the Italian spirit. Now, the Italian spirit is when, you know, someone asks, hey, in this newspaper, the Pope said something where you say, ah, well, maybe the papa was misinterpreted. You know, it's a no big deal. Forget about it. That's the. You're too Anglo to understand that too Anglo attitude.

[Charlie Kirk]

I have to just, I have to just hope, you know, oh, you know, he doesn't mean that, you know, homosexuality is bad, you know, okay, we should.

[Michael Knowles]

Oh, he said God can't bless sin, but I know sometimes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on, I'm not going to give you that one. He's been way more open on that topic. Or the climate change thing. Climate change and all this sort of stuff. You just have to kind of hope that he's saying that we want one of the.

[Michael Knowles]

You just kind of. It's like my grandmother, sometimes when she, when one of her grandchildren says something that she doesn't like, she kind of turns down the hearing aid a little bit. And so sometimes, you know, if you turn down the hearing aid on certain issues.

[Charlie Kirk]

And I mean this like non sarcastically, but, like, why should I care at all what that guy from Argentina has to say?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, because you care what your pastor has to say.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, but if my pastor starts saying crazy things, I find a new pastor. Okay. Every new year, we all spend a few days seriously thinking about what we can do to improve our lives. And usually it revolves around better health. Right. I want to strongly encourage you to do what I do. Take responsibility for your health by taking Balance of Nature whole food ingredient supplements. Seriously. They are packed with 31 varieties of fruits and veggies, from tomatoes to sweet potatoes, just about everything in between. This is a resolution you could truly keep all year long, like I do. This is your last time to put it off, because today you can become a preferred customer at Balance of Nature. Use my discount code Charlie to get 35% off free shipping plus a free fiber and spice supplement. This is an unbelievable limited New Year's promotion, but you must use my discount code Charlie. Call them at 800-246-8751 or order online at balanceofnature.com use discount code Charlie to get 35% off plus a free fiber and spice supplement. So if your Pope starts saying crazy things, maybe he's not the pope. And, like, maybe that's a bad representation.

[Michael Knowles]

Well. Well, I guess if your pastor says crazy things, you go to a new pastor and then you have division in the church. It used to be in the old days, it used to be if the pastors disagreed, they'd go to an elder or a bishop or someone. Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

Unless the bishop is corrupted and then.

[Michael Knowles]

You take it up higher. Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

And then maybe the Pope is corrupted and we write 95 points of complaints and hammer them to a door and get back to the word.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, the issue is that one of the marks of the church is unity, so you can't have constant schism. And so I'm not disagreeing about difficulties in the prelature at all, but there's a line from Hilaire Belloc, and he says he has to take it on faith that the Catholic Church is really what it says it is. But for those who don't believe that one mark of its divine institution is that no other institution conducted with such knavish imbecility would have lasted a fortnight. And I think there's actually a lot of truth to that, that, you know, when one points to the corruption of individuals or bad popes or whatever, but plenty of them, that. That. Actually, that's kind of an evidence of the. Because so many other ecclesial communities, you know, they appear, and then, you know, you leave this past.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, I just. I think that's fine, I guess. I mean, I think that if you have the Bible as any sort of semblance of a bedrock, you're gonna. You're gonna last.

[Michael Knowles]

But who. Who canonizes the Bible?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, who canonized it, when we went.

[Michael Knowles]

Was like, where do we get it from? Our Lord didn't leave us a Bible. He left us a church, the church.

[Charlie Kirk]

That codified the Bible. Sort of true. I mean, I think our Lord as part of God ship. God is the author of all 66 books.

[Michael Knowles]

Right.

[Charlie Kirk]

And we had, wait, oh, you slipped that in.

[Michael Knowles]

Hey, come on. You can't do that to me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, no. This is interesting, though. Why is it that Catholics acknowledge divine books that Jews themselves don't think are divine? The keepers of the Torah don't even agree with your canon.

[Michael Knowles]

It's.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, it's like the wisdom of Ben Sirrah, 1st and 2nd Maccabees. According to rabbinical teaching, those are not divinely inspired books. Yet Catholics say, we like those. Why?

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah. Well, so for. There are a few reasons. One, that the Douay Rheims, which is the Catholic Bible, is based on the Septuagint. The Masoretic texts, which come later, are the ones that the Protestant Bible and the more recent Catholic Bibles are based on. There is some discrepancy, at least in numbering of certain things. But also, I mean, you say, well, if rabbinical Jews think one thing, why don't you think that? And I'd say, I don't know, because we're a different religion.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, but hold on a second. No, no, no, but. No, but we're the inheritors of the Torah as referenced by people that were schooled in that. So. And the Tanakh. So the Protestantism has an identical mirrored image of the Torah and the Tanakh. And again, in traditional rabbinical teaching, they do not believe those books are divinely inspired. Anyway. I know the answer, and you're not going to like it, but that's fine. It's because in. In those books, it allows for a lot of the practices of the Catholic Church and gives justification for a lot of stuff. However, I don't want to get too deep in this. I actually think the world is a better place because of faithful Catholics. I've spoken out with great criticism of how evangelicals remained quiet here in Arizona on Prop. 139 while the Catholic diocese was so courageous on the fight for life, while evangelicals were silent. I want a better Catholic Church. And I personally would not be able to be part of an institution with the figurehead, with a worldview that is so corrupted and opposite of what I think the Bible teaches. And I wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt. I'd be like, no, I'm actually not part of this. I'm leaving.

[Michael Knowles]

But today you're part of the United States. States. But the head of the United States is.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, but I don't think you don't leave the country. I. I don't take. I don't take religious orders from Joe Biden.

[Michael Knowles]

No, but you take political orders or you at Least follow the law.

[Charlie Kirk]

Really? I mean, I follow the law, but there's no political orders from Joe Biden.

[Michael Knowles]

No, I guess it would mean.

[Charlie Kirk]

And no, that's not true either. I broke. I. We all broke laws we didn't. Like during COVID all of us did. Like, that's not true at all. Actually. We opened our churches and like, some of you guys lied about your vaccination status. That's not true at all.

[Michael Knowles]

No, Nobody lied about their vaccine.

[Charlie Kirk]

Like, no. Like, we all rebel against corrupt institutions we don't like.

[Michael Knowles]

But an unjust law is no law at all. It's not.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's a species unjust. Rather, Pope is not a Pope.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, but was. But what's on? What's on? There's nothing unjust about the Pope talking about, like, climate change. No, I just don't pay attention to it, you know?

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so you just like, you pick. You pick and choose. What, it's like a buffet line? No, I like what he says about this, but not about that. But yes, he is the inheritor of St. Peter. No, no, I mean, like.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no. The papal authority is that he speaks infallibly when speaking ex cathedral on faith and morals. Doesn't talk about climate change at all. So the Pope can say things that are crazy?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes. If this is perfect, then. Then why have one?

[Michael Knowles]

If what he says in order to speak infallibly Ex cathedral on faith and morals.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so that has not happened since what, Vatican ii?

[Michael Knowles]

No, it's. It's a little bit.

[Charlie Kirk]

When was the last time the Pope spokes?

[Michael Knowles]

Well, Vatican II was part of the Mass.

[Charlie Kirk]

When was the last time? Like 50, 60 years. The.

[Michael Knowles]

The last. Probably ex cathedra. Infallible teachings from a Pope were probably Pope Pius IX, you know, like 150 years ago.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so then therefore there really is no functional use for a pope for 150 years.

[Michael Knowles]

No, no, he's the. He's the. He's the leader of the Church, you know, he's the.

[Charlie Kirk]

Exactly. Your figurehead. Your top leader is not good.

[Michael Knowles]

No. I don't know.

[Charlie Kirk]

But.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, none is good but God, I guess, you know.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, no, I would say Pope John Paul II was objectively a good person.

[Michael Knowles]

You would say none is good but God. That's what our Lord tells us.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, of course, yeah, we all fall short of the glory of God. But I think that there is a. I mean, Catholic Catholic moral teaching will tell you that there are gradations of sin. Yeah, I'm using your own morality, and I agree with it. Right. That, like, there's Pope John. The John Paul II is totally different than, you know, Ted kissing.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, but I don't know what. I mean, what sin are you accusing Pope Francis? I can't believe I'm defending Pope Francis.

[Charlie Kirk]

How about the sin of, like, heresy of the word of God? Like, believing in heresy. Okay. Without getting into, like, the specific things that he said. But, like, in the Latin, he was. The climate change stuff is insane.

[Michael Knowles]

Way too relaxed.

[Charlie Kirk]

Way too relaxed. On the homosexuality stuff, he says God can't bless sin.

[Michael Knowles]

Well, he says that it's. He called gay marriage a machination of.

[Charlie Kirk]

The Father of life.

[Michael Knowles]

If I had to even confuse.

[Charlie Kirk]

If I had the full body of work in front of me. What? His. His teachings on communism are insane.

[Michael Knowles]

He comes from liberation, says he's not a communist.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no. He. You know, he said it.

[Michael Knowles]

He said he's not a communist.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so wait, so does Obama's website. So, Michael, let me say this. If I had every quote here, which of course I don't, you would be able to defend them that he said.

[Michael Knowles]

I would at least be able to make the point that he's not speaking infallibly, I think, but I wouldn't defend every.

[Charlie Kirk]

We'll get to the next question.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[D]

Hi, my name's Athena. I'm actually coming from New Jersey, so thank you for having me. So my question, a little bit unrelated to what you guys were just talking about.

[Michael Knowles]

You're not talking about blessed Pius ix and.

[D]

No, shockingly not. Okay, so recently, Trump was given Person of the Year. It's really been given to pretty much every president that's ever been voted in. Just kind of the most important person. So I noticed when I was reading the media on it, that on the right, you had, you know, trump gets Person of the Year, and then you start looking at the past, and you had Democratic presidents, and the headlines were so sweet. It was, you know, an honor was bestowed unto them. And then when Trump won, there was this magazine, I think, called Metro, and in the headline, it said, trump joined exclusive club that Hitler and Stalin enjoyed.

[Charlie Kirk]

And I think, come on, I did.

[D]

Not see that swear on my life. And I posted a video on this on my TikTok, and it went viral because people had no idea. So my question to you guys is, what do you think Trump should or shouldn't do about the issue of this defamation all in the media? Because it's slander, pretty much. And you can see the imbalance when you look. So I guess if you were Trump, would you do Anything. If so, what would that be?

[Michael Knowles]

He's already collected $15 million from it. How much more can the man make?

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm reading this right here. This is metro.co uk unbelievable. Wow. I guess. I don't think you could sue on it because I guess it's technically true, right?

[D]

Technically, yeah, I guess that's true.

[Michael Knowles]

No, he. Look, that's incredible. When George Stephanopoulos and ABC lie about Trump, he should sue them for everything they're worth. And that was so delightful. But when we're just talking about the usual smears, it seems to me that Trump has that briefing room now. And so Trump has this amazing opportunity to reset the relationship between the citizen and the government. He has another amazing opportunity to reset the relationship between the people and the media. And so I think if I'm looking at that press room seating chart right now, I'm looking at MSNBC certainly should not be there. CNN should not be up by the front row. Should the New York Times be there? I don't think Metro UK has a seat. But, you know, even just those three in this past election, the New York Times and the Washington Post admitted that they do not have influence, that they have waning influence.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes.

[Michael Knowles]

They called it a podcast election. So I think, okay, kick them out. Also, they lie, so they're not credible. Right? Yeah. You know, I mean, I think maybe give. There's one rotating seat for the New York Times, CNN and Washington Post or whatever. But why would we reward those people who lie?

[Charlie Kirk]

You and I should do the White House press.

[Michael Knowles]

I've been saying this for years.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, kick them all out. Why even give them a seat? I don't understand. Like.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, just do.

[Charlie Kirk]

Seriously, no more cnn. Just be. You know, you guys can watch the. Watch it on TV like we did. Okay, Daisy, last question.

[E]

Okay, this is funny. My name's also Athena. I'm a senior from South Carolina.

[Charlie Kirk]

Two Athenas?

[Michael Knowles]

What are the two?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[E]

That's crazy. I've never met anyone but my. Okay, so I'm Athena from South Carolina. I'm a senior this year, and I want to go to college for political science, and I want to be a political commentator. And I was wondering if you have any advice for me. And I just. I really admire that, what both of y'all do, and I really feel called to that. And I want to, like, minister the gospel through that, and I want to just reach people, and I want to share the truth as, like a woman, as a Christian, as a Republican. And I just wondered if you have.

[Charlie Kirk]

Any advice what do you think my advice is.

[E]

Well, I know that, I know that. I. Yeah, so, yeah, I actually, I agree with you on some things, but also I was talking to my parents about it and they feel similarly to you. But my dad was saying that if God wants me to do that and go get an education, he'll provide the money that I need to do that. And I really feel like I want to be like, I know that, for example, Ben Shapiro went to a university and he got a higher education. And I know that that's the case for some people they're supposed to do it and some people they're not. And I personally want to do that.

[Michael Knowles]

Because, I mean, knock against college, though, that Ben Shapiro went to college. Right. That's a huge.

[E]

Yeah, I just was saying, like, I know some people, like, that's what God is calling them to do and I really feel like that's what I'm supposed to do.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah.

[E]

And I feel like. Because I want to know what I'm talking about and I want to make sure that I'm fine.

[Charlie Kirk]

You want to know what you're talking about? Tone, critic.

[Michael Knowles]

No. You know, I broadly agree with Charlie.

[Charlie Kirk]

Like, as a general, I think it's a complete waste of time.

[Michael Knowles]

However, I am pro college in the right circumstance. Some people today, they complain about college. They say college no longer teaches you anything useful. Now, the point of a university is emphatically not to teach you anything useful. That's what trade schools for, that's what apprenticeships are for. That's what working on a job is for. The purpose of a university education is to teach you things that are useless. The problem with our current university education is it doesn't do that. It actually doesn't teach you philosophy and literature and history. So all of that can be really, really good. I mean, look, the Charlie Kirk's of the world are like one in a zillion. Truly, there's no flattery.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I don't, I don't. I reject it, though. It's like just work hard and study a lot. I don't understand what college does.

[Michael Knowles]

How many people are as interested in their own.

[Charlie Kirk]

I have one thing that people don't have. I have drive. I totally acknowledge it. I'm not any smarter than the average person. No, seriously, if you want to be good, you can be good. So decide to do it. And what does college do for. I want someone to tell me what's so important about college. Unless you want to be like a lawyer or whatever. It's. It's an Unnecessary institution, I think, especially for most people.

[Michael Knowles]

But even. Even for people who are really driven and really ambitious, it can provide in the circumstances in which you have really good teachers who really know the subject.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah. Like Hillsdale.

[Michael Knowles]

Who are like a. Hillsdale. Hillsdale's.

[Charlie Kirk]

But that's. But. But there are.

[Michael Knowles]

It's like Hillsdale, ave Maria, like 20,000.

[Charlie Kirk]

Kids a year go to Liberty.

[Michael Knowles]

Yeah, yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's very. Well, Liberty's big school, 100,000 kids.

[Michael Knowles]

But I broadly agree. I just think if you're gonna do it, I wouldn't go there to get. I'm totally with Charlie on this. I wouldn't go there to get some degree in, like, journalism or something. I think that's a complete waste of time. But you could get a degree in history or philosophy or something to make you. To at least point you in the right direction to educate yourself. My next bit of advice is don't become famous too early. I know everyone really wants to, especially when they're starting out, but don't, because you probably don't know what you think yet. And then the third bit of advice is, I'd work out your own routine. It's like when a comedian starts. Comedians start out by doing other people's routines, and so they're doing an impression of someone else. That's great. And it gives you your. Gives you your chops, but you have to figure out what your contribution is. I mean, every truly, every human being on planet Earth has a podcast. So, like, for you to break through the noise of that, you have to be offering something that's a little bit different. And I bet you could. You know, there's no question about it, but you need to really delve into yourself before you put yourself out there.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you so much, Athena. Thank you, everybody. Give it up for Michael Knowles one more time.

[Michael Knowles]

Thank you. Thank you, everybody.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless.

[Michael Knowles]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.