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- [00:00]
Charlie Kirk
Hey, everybody. Today on the Charlie Kirk show, my formal debate at Oxford University. The way they do it is that you have 10 minutes of debate and it goes back and forth and back and forth and I think you'll enjoy it. I am the final debater as you have to listen to a lot of lies on how the ruling class of Oxford feels about President Trump. I think you'll really enjoy this discussion and a lot of people think we won. Email US as always, Freedomarliekirk.com and subscribe to our podcast, that is the Charlie Kirk show podcast page. Get involved with Turningpoint USA@tpusa.com that is tpusa.com Become a member today. Members.charliekirk.com that is members.charliekirk.Com thanks to Alan Jackson Ministries for your continued support. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go.
- [00:43]
Moderator or Debate Host
Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.
- [00:47]
Daniel Ogoloma
I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk.
- [00:50]
Moderator or Debate Host
Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks. I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa. We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.
- [01:17]
Anya Trafimovia
I put the motion before the House. This House believes that Trump has gone too far. And opening the case for the proposition is Anya Trafimovia Library in St. John's College.
- [01:32]
Mina Malalam
I yield the chair to Mina Malalam, Chief of Staff. This House believes that Trump has gone too far. Trump has tanked the American economy with a $2.4 trillion deficit. But side opposition will tell you that Trump has not gone too far. Trump is gutting the global economy. But that side will tell you that Trump has not gone too far. Trump has ruined NATO. Trump has slashed global aid. Trump has all but abolished the rule of law. But the opposition will still tell you that he has not gone too far. Trump has deported American citizens to camps without fair trial. But the opposition will still tell you he has not gone too far. Trump's budget will deny 14 million American citizens health care. Would 15 million be too far? Would 30? This is just year one. But no. Still, the opposition will tell you Trump has not gone too far. Trump is intent on relegating women to second class citizens. Trump wants to end free speech as we know it. He is bankrolling Israel's Gaza genocide and he's cozied up to Putin while throwing Ukraine under the bus. And Trump single handedly has set the history profession back God knows how many years by proving the great man theory of history right as the single most destructive individual of the 21st century. But no, Trump hasn't gone too far. The noble Charlie Kirk will tell you Trump is not ambitious. If it was so, it is a grievous fault. And grievously has Trump answered it. I speak not to disprove what Kirk will say, but I am here to speak with what I do know. Many Americans voted for Trump, and not without cause. America is in crisis. It is a democracy dictated by corporate interests, by disillusionment and disarray. But Trump is not the Solution. In only 100 days, he has not only gone too far, he has taken steps to fundamentally unravel the Constitution of the Founding Fathers, paralyze the courts and send the world lurching towards financial ruin. He has slashed US aid by 62%, leaving key humanitarian operations in Somalia, Haiti and Myanmar adrift at 3.8%. Trump has about as much hope of controlling inflation levels as he does trying to rein in his own inflated ego. In only 100 days, the Trump's family's net worth has increased 3 billion. That's about 1 billion a month since he since the time he took office. In that same amount of time, Trump has only signed five bills into law, marking the single worst performance to a start of a president's term in more than a century. The only thing that Trump has not gone quite far, far enough in, is fashion. If you're going to use the fascist playbook, you might at least get Hugo Boss to design your MAGA hats. Madam President, thank you for the incredible honor of speaking in this debate tonight. I'm glad to see you hosting a debate on a president that has gone too far. Although you yourself haven't tried to force through rules reforms in the house, appoint over 50 of your friends to committee as Napo babies or strike half of the union's electoral officials, which in my opinion shows that you clearly haven't gone far enough. That being said, you still have over four weeks left in office and I'm incredibly excited to see where you will go from here. On a more serious note, I'm excited and happy to see the members of the union, unlike our counterparts in America, are more comfortable with electing a highly qualified woman to the most senior office in this society. I hope that any American friends in the audience tonight are taking notes.
- [05:20]
Serene Singh
On.
- [05:20]
Mina Malalam
The subject of guests Those with an observant eye will have seen in the term card that Nayib Bukele, our President of El Salvador, will be paying us a visit later in the term. I hope that the President will ask him about his recent illegal incarceration of American citizens at the instruction of his American sugar daddy, who's currently picking it out in his $400 million palace in the sky. Sorry, I meant gift of a jet from Qatar. Just yesterday the USA was downgraded from its last AAA credit rating, with Moody citing insurmountable concerns about fiscal debt and tax cut legislation getting an A. I should explain Charlie is something that you do in school and I'd like at this point to apologize to my dear tutor Dr. Laura Smith, who is speaking also on side Proposition. I promise that you will have the essay next week. I've been a little too caught up in writing this speech actually. If there is any chance of changing the topic to Trump's America, I might have the essay half written. In 100 days and by fiat alone, Trump has signed 70 executive orders and pardoned over 70 individuals convicted for the January 6th insurrection. He has rolled out and then rolled back in tariffs on over 90 countries. They say that the past repeats itself, but it seems that backsliding into the authoritarianism of the 1930s has come a decade early. To say he has not gone too far, as the opposition must, is to say that any one of the individually unacceptable acts, of which there are too many to list, are actually acceptable. And more than this good a vote for the opposition is a vote that it is good to storm Congress to bribe escorts. It's a vote for a president who won't rule out the possibility of running for a third term because it is, quote, too early to think about, all the while making the lives of ordinary people immeasurably worse. Actually, it is measurably worse. Under Trump, you can be thousands of dollars poorer. Trump appointed Elon Musk to run Doge Musk, a man that thinks that grass is something you smoke and who thinks that a meme is when you cut 30 million people's pensions. After the neo Nazi Charlottesville riot, Trump famously said that there are some very fine people on both sides, a sentiment that he clearly took to heart in appointing Elon Musk, a man whose love of throwing Roman salutes is second only to his self proclaimed love of ketamine. But then, perhaps Trump and Elon is just the ultimate story of male friendship. After buying Twitter because he didn't have any real life friends, Musk with Twitter can join Trump with Truth Social in the enviable company of probably not a lizard, Mark Zuckerberg and in the I own my own social media club now. Charlie, I'm sorry you got left out here, but I don't think that having kids pretend to be MAGA youth for Instagram reels quite cuts it. Trump is not just corrupt, not just a moral vacuum, but he is an ego out of control. He's a danger to himself and to others. He's authoritarian and impulsive. Now, it's a bit rich for the union, with its recent leadership, to talk of presidents being authoritarian and impulsive. That being said, perhaps America could take a leaf out of the Union's playbook and try removing their president, even the ones that have been democratically elected. If you don't think that Trump has gone too far, at what point would you say that he has crossed the Rubicon? If your neighbor is deported in the middle of the night, probably killed? If books are burned? If there is martial law on the streets? If your sister isn't allowed to go to high school? Go on Trump. Go for the Gilead Trump's Whoa. And blitzkrieg of abuse in only 100 days spells a dark future for us all. I fear not only for America, but for the rest of the world. So vote and vote for the proposition. And as you vote, enjoy doing it. Because in America, in a few years time, at this current trajectory, you probably won't have such a luxury. Thank you so much.
- [09:29]
Charlie Kirk
We're honored to be partnering with the Alan Jackson Ministries and today I want to point you to their podcast. It's called Culture and Christianity. The Alan Jackson Podcast. What makes it unique is Pastor Alan's biblical perspective. He takes the truth from the Bible and applies it to issues that we're facing today. Gender confusion, abortion, immigration, Doge Trump and the White House issues in the church. He doesn't just discuss the problems. In every episode, he gives practical things.
- [09:54]
Moderator or Debate Host
We can do to make a difference.
- [09:56]
Charlie Kirk
His guests have incredible expertise and powerful testimonies. Each episode will make you recognize the power of your faith and how God can use your life to impact our world today. The Culture and Christianity podcast is informative and encouraging. You can find it on YouTube, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss any episodes. We're honored to be partnering with the Alan Jackson Ministries. Alan Jackson Ministries is working hard to bring biblical truth back into our culture. You can find out more about Pastor Alan and the ministry@AlanJackson.com Charlie.
- [10:30]
Anya Trafimovia
I now look to Serene Singh, Christchurch College to continue the case for the proposition.
- [10:43]
Serene Singh
As an American, I grew up on Disney classic family entertainment. However, one character always fascinated me. It wasn't Mickey or Goofy. No, it was Donald Duck. Yeah, that Donald Duck. That cartoon duck with the temper so bad that even my uncle at Thanksgiving looked like a saint. But every time Donald tries. Now, in one episode, let me tell you about what Donald Duck did. I remember this very vividly. You see, Donald Duck was trying to fix up his old beat up car. But every time Donald tries to start that car, the engine backfires, the horn blasts, doors are flying open, the steering wheel's wobbling, smoke's billowing out. But what does Donald do? Does he stop and fix the thing? No way. He slams the gas pedal harder and harder. No brakes, no pit stop, no mechanic in sight. Just pedal to the metal, baby. As a kid, I watched an angry duck stomp around shouting nonsense and driving his little cartoon car into walls. I thought I'd left Donald behind when I grew up, but little did I know we'd have another Donald doing the exact same thing. Every time he breaks something out of law, an election's integrity, a Democratic norm, he slams the gas harder. So when Americans and all of us today ask the question, has Trump gone too far? I say, he's not just gone too far, he's still going too far. Only problem is, this time, the car is America. So tonight, I'll show you how President Trump has gone too far through three powerful realities. First, division, second, distraction, and third, deflection. If even one of those holds true for you, Trump has gone too far. You must affirm tonight's motion. So first, as a Sikh American woman, the central tenet of my faith is that we are all one. Many of us in this room believe this. Trump has sought to divide us from one one, another, two from our allies, and three, even from the truth. In dividing Americans from one another, President Trump has fueled fear and resentment between neighbors. He calls political opponents vermin, brands immigrants as murderers and attacks queer and trans Americans. According to the Leadership Conference on Civil and Human Rights, hate crimes across race, religion, gender, class and disability have either increased or are projected to increase by more than 80%. In Trump's America, his rhetoric has deepened hostility among family, friends and everyday people, making Americans who once saw family and community see enemies. In dividing America from our allies, President Trump has praised autocrats while undermining Democratic allies. He supported policies enabling the mass force displacement of Palestinians. Displacement they continue to resist and endure. He's threatened to acquire Canada and Greenland, floated military action in Panama, and publicly insulted NATO and leader, NATO and leaders of the Ukraine, while defending dictators like Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Xi Jinping. This isolationist approach also divides Americans from number three, the truth. President Trump has made it harder for Americans to trust facts. And when Americans stop trusting the people who inform them of their public health, education, or their elections, they have nowhere else to look but towards him. He's told Americans that the economy is booming while wages remain stagnant. Homelessness has risen 12% in 2025 alone. And one in five children in the United States faces hunger in the wealthiest country on Earth. He claimed he created the best health care in the world, while millions remain uninsured. And medical debt is still the leading cause of personal bankruptcy in the United States. He paints climate change as a hoax, while wildfires, floods and extreme heat worsen every year and indigenous communities pay the price. That's not just a spin, it's a strategy. Because when Americans do not know what is true, they cannot demand what is just. That's how he divides us, not only from each other, but from literally the reality we exist within. So, second distraction. You'll notice a pattern when there's a real fire. Trump pulls out the alarm somewhere else. He doesn't address the root causes of crises. He manufactures new ones. And to distract us from focusing on real problems, I'm going to specifically address only safety in society, safety for women, and safety for children. He claims he brings safety, law and order. An interesting priority for someone who's been convicted of 34 felony counts. But his solution? Build more prisons, imprison more people, punish and repeat. Research shows that mass incarceration does not solve the issues that cause crime, poverty, mental illness and addiction. It punishes people for symptoms of real problems. And if you still believe prisons solve crime, consider America locks up more people than any country on Earth, holding nearly one fourth of the world's prisoners. If mass incarceration made us safer, we'd be the safest nation on Earth. But instead of reversing this, President Trump pushes us further into an unsafe reality, choosing handcuffs over housing, prisons over treatment. He doesn't just distract us from the real roots of crimes. He deepens the crises that exist. He claims that America is safer for women. President Trump says that he will protect women, and he does. But look closer at what he does and how he actually distracts us. He fuels moral panic about people who are transgender, in sports, a policy obsession that targets a few dozen individuals Nationwide. No, thank you. While distracting from over 40 million women, half of our country, who have identified very clearly what the threat is of the real harm, which you all know is cisgender men. According to data by the National Crime victimization survey, over 90% of violence experienced by women is, is committed by cisgender men. But President Trump had banned books, not predators. He targets drag shows, not domestic violence. Under his leadership, women's health care access has plummeted, maternal mortality rates have risen, and survivors of violence face greater barriers in courts and in hospitals than perhaps ever before. Meanwhile, President Trump surrounds himself with men credibly accused or convicted of sexual violence, not removing them, but elevating them to decision making positions. If safety were really the goal, the threats women experience wouldn't be invented and the real ones wouldn't be ignored. He claims America is safer for children. In America today, the leading cause of death for children and teens is gun violence. Over 4300 kids are killed by guns each year and more than 17,000 are wounded. That is 60 children every single day. In just 2025, there have already been 177 mass shootings. And yet, President Trump is silent. Instead of passing laws to keep kids safe in schools, he attacks teachers, slashes education budgets, and distracts the public with crusades against story hours and books in school libraries. Children are not unsafe because of what they're reading. They are unsafe because their classrooms are war zones. When you keep pulling fire alarms for fake fires, no one notices when the building you're in is actually burning. But here's the you cannot fix a crisis. You refuse to understand. So finally, my third point. Deflection. President Trump doesn't look for solutions. He avoids accountability. He blamed election workers for his own loss, fueling a deadly insurrection that endangered lawmakers and law enforcement. He blamed Congress for the violence his words incited. He's weaponized immigration to shift blame, deporting asylum seekers without hearings and detaining student protesters across state lines, not to protect Americans, but to silence dissent. He calls the press the enemy of the people, threatened journalists and flooded the courts with lawsuits to avoid scrutiny. As a result, Today, America ranks 55th in global press freedom, the lowest it has been in modern history. You cannot run a country by avoiding every mirror and blaming every fire on someone else. Mark Twain once said, it is easier to fool people than it is to convince them that they have been fooled. So I have a tough job on this side, but tonight's debate has actually tested that because three people have sat on this chamber's floor for the entire debate. You've stepped over them, you've looked past them, you've ignored them. They've been holding a jar at the back of this chamber full of critical issues that affect millions of Americans. Shelter, hunger, gun violence, unaffordable health care, poverty, freedom and autonomy. But we didn't ask who they were. We didn't ask what they were holding. We didn't ask to help them. That jar has been sitting there with them this whole time. And just like that, millions are left on the floor silently holding everything he refuses to fix. Meanwhile, this flashy jar filled with manufactured threats and political theater grabs every headline and all of our attention. Even in this debate, Trump's America does not solve real problems. It it performs around them. If you did not notice that jar or those individuals tonight, that's not your fault. But if you leave still looking away, then he hasn't gone too far. We all have. The thing is, if we let those problems sit in the back of the room for long enough, we all start to believe that they belong back there. Out of sight, out of mind. But they don't. We must get close to that jar. We must feel its weight. Because when the curtain falls, it's the people on the floor who are still bleeding behind it. And that is millions of Americans. So house affirm today's motion because Donald Duck was far, but Donald Trump, that's too far.
- [21:32]
Charlie Kirk
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- [22:34]
Anya Trafimovia
I thank Serene for her speech. To continue the case for the opposition, I look to Daniel Ogoloma, Regent's Park College.
- [22:48]
Daniel Ogoloma
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, Friends of democracy and friends of drama. And of course, Madam President. Thank you for the honor of speaking in tonight's debate. I must say it's a historic and inspiring moment for me. Also, let me take this moment to congratulate you on making history in becoming the first black woman to serve in this prestigious society as president. Well done. Now, onto the business for today. This House believes Trump has gone too far. But before we start passing judgment, let's ask, what does gone too far even mean? Too far to whom? The media? The woke left? Or too far to people who are used to presidents who just have eloquent speeches for eight years without action? Like that former president from Chicago, gone too far? The phrase itself is elastic, subjective. It's vague and often used more as an emotional expression than. Than a rigorous standard. It sounds like a phrase you use when your mates down the last pizza that you've already called dibs on. It implies that boundaries have been crossed. But which boundaries? Legal, Political, Democratic? Whose boundary is it? And perhaps most importantly, too far. Compared to what? Compared to precedent? To expectation? Or simply politeness? Trump is going where he said he would. Loudly, brazenly, and for the second time. He's not overreaching. He's delivering. So tonight, I'll show you that Trump is working within the constitutional boundaries. He's doing what he is democratically elected to do, and he's following through on the policies which will prove he hasn't gone too far. He's just gone as far as he said he would. Now, the proposition, of course, has continuously made the case that Trump is breaking the Constitution. They'll say he trampled democracy, ignored the courts, and is basically running the White House like It's a season 15 of the Apprentice. Here's the truth. Trump isn't breaking the Constitution. He's following it forcefully, but faithfully. Yes, he's signing executive orders faster than freshers sign up for societies they'll never attend. But is that illegal? No, it's efficient. Let's compare. Obama signed over 270 executive orders. Biden's crossed 160. Trump, he's simply operating just like every modern president, trying to get things done in a gridlocked system. He's declared national emergencies. He's not the first. The National Emergency act exists and he used it. And if you don't like the law. Blame Congress. Trump didn't write it. He just actually read it this time. And when the courts disagree with him, and yes, some did, he didn't ignore them.
- [25:35]
Mina Malalam
He.
- [25:35]
Daniel Ogoloma
He didn't dissolve the judiciary or arrest any judge. And even in the case of Kilmar Albergo Gracia, yes, a deportation gone wrong. The system didn't collapse. The courts intervened. Judges ruled. The administration was held accountable. That's not a president ignoring the law. That's the law working. Even when the headlines get messy, Trump isn't going beyond the powers vested in him as stated in Article 2 in the United States Constitution. He is using the powers of the presidency exactly as it is written, unapologetically, energetically, and in line with the mandates he was given. Trump isn't trying to abolish Congress. He isn't attempting to rewrite bills of rights, and he isn't throwing out separations of power to crown himself an emperor. He's operating within the framework, loudly and legally. Look, I know the Trump sequel rattled a few cages. It was like the reboot no one asked for that, somehow still shattered the box office records. But this wasn't a political accident. It was a democratic choice. Over 60 million Americans heard the message, saw the chaos, weighed the controversy, and still said, let's make America great again. So rewind the tapes. His 2024 campaign was a checklist, not a poem. And guess what? He's ticking the boxes and many Americans are winning young people. He's rolled out apprenticeships and STEM grants, created real jobs, not just LinkedIn dreams. As for the working class Americans, tax relief and energy infrastructure, more hours, more cash, the elderly. He's capped insulin prices in his first few weeks. Legal immigration application Queues cut nearly 30%, thanks to digitization. So you tell me if Trump's second term has already improved financial standings of students, workers, immigrants and pensioners. Who exactly has he gone too far against? Everybody's saying he's making big moves, he's shaking the foundations. I say yes, that is the job. You don't hire Gordon Ramsay and complain when he's yelling in the kitchen. You don't reelect Trump and act shocked when he's still Trump. Now, I know what my friends on the proposition will say, of course, but Trump supporters are uncomfortable with some of the things he's doing. And I say welcome to bloody adulthood. I don't even agree with half of my own Netflix suggestions. Half of the time, no one gets a perfect match. And even Adele fans skip most parts of someone like you. Voters didn't pick a genie, they picked a leader. Someone who would, when handed the keys, drive, not spend the entire term adjusting the mirrors. It's messy, it's loud, but that's democracy. Let him do his job. Now, just imagine you purchase a ticket to Jamaica. You board the flight, and mid flight, you experience turbulence. And the pilot tells you guys, sit tight because the route he needs to take might be ugly, it's a bumpy ride, but he still lands the plane safely at your destination. Will you say he went too far? No, I think you'd say, cheers, mate, rough ride, but we got there in the end. So let's be very clear. Trump isn't going too far. I just think we've grown used to politicians promising everything, delivering nothing and calling it process. He instead is delivering what he promised, even if it gives CNN panic attacks every 45 minutes. Who gives a toss about Trump's tone and politeness? His language or his tweeting? Trump is rude, they say he's undiplomatic. He makes people uncomfortable. Well, so does honesty. So does follow through. So does a president who doesn't apologize every 30 seconds, like a British person walking through someone in a Tesco.
- [29:15]
Mina Malalam
Sorry.
- [29:16]
Daniel Ogoloma
Sorry. And yes, supporters of this motion will also say he's damaging America's international image. Look, America's image has been through worse. They once invaded the wrong country over bad intelligence and were still selected to host the Olympics like nothing happened. Trump being blunt isn't the collapse of diplomacy, it's just the end of pretending everyone likes each other in the group. In the G7 group chat, here's the real threat to democracy. Politicians who talk a good game and do nothing, who run on dreams and govern on differing, who make hope a product, but not a plan. Trump is certainly not that man. You may not like the method, but you can't deny the motion. Trump is moving, friends. I'm not saying he's a political saint. He's not even polite. I know, but that's not the requirement to be president. If Trump unnerves you, maybe what we fear isn't overreach. It's accountability. So I leave you with this. If democracy still means electing leaders and expecting them to do what they say they would, then Donald Trump hasn't gone too far. He's gone exactly as far as he is allowed to. Thank you all.
- [30:26]
Charlie Kirk
If you want to make sense of the change and the chaos happening around us, you're going to need God's help. That's why Alan Jackson Ministries, a friend of mine created the Culture and Christianity podcast, the Culture and Christianity Conference, and their weeknight news show, Alan Jackson. Now millions of people also listen to Pastor Alan Jackson's powerful sermons each week. I do on radio, television, satellite and online. In today's world, there's desperate need for truth. And Alan Jackson Ministries feels a sense of urgency to deliver God's truth and a biblical perspective of to anyone who will listen. We can't afford to be complacent. Their mission is to help people become more fully devoted followers of Jesus Christ, which is the most important thing, giving your life to the Lord. Including here on the Charlie Kirk show. Go to alanjackson.com Charlie that is alanjackson.com Charlie to find recent podcasts, shows and sermons. Be informed, find encouragement, hear the truth delivered in a way that just makes sense. You'll also find books, studies, prayers and other tools to help you grow in your faith again. That's alanjackson.com Charlie alanjackson.com Charlie, this is our time to make a difference.
- [31:39]
Moderator or Debate Host
Check it out right now.
- [31:42]
Anya Trafimovia
I now look to Laura Smith to close the case for the proposition.
- [31:55]
Laura Smith
Thank you so much for this opportunity. It's great to be back in Oxford. I suppose I really owe actually a debt of thanks to our friend Mr. Kirk here because, you know, I'd love to think that my students would wait this long to hear me lecture. But to be honest with you, you know, been here this long just because of him. But I must caution you, entertainment is on this side for you. Education is on this side. Now, I gotta mention one thing that has been a sort of running current through the argument that you've heard from opposition today, which is this idea of he won. He got the popular vote once. Once. He got the popular vote once. He did win twice, okay? But the assumption is that he therefore had a mandate. A lot of political scientists dispute that there's even such a thing as an electoral mandate, that people could actually take him at his word and that somehow Elon Musk was elected too. So you know what happens when you make assumptions, right? And I hate to use a Democratic dick here because it's got that connotation, but you make an of yourself. That's what happens when you make an assumption. Everyone knows that. Now the word unprecedented is intrinsically associated almost to redundancy when it comes to. To Donald Trump. He is not unprecedented in being the first. He's definitely not the first president to try and push the boundaries of executive power to beyond its scope. He is even not the first president to do so in a time that is out of sync with his context. I can think of two other examples. Andrew Johnson, after the Civil War, he was America's first president to be impeached. Why? Because he wanted to welcome the Confederate rebels back with open arms. Like the Civil War. Just a bit of a brotherly scuffle, wasn't it? No problem. All these freed African Americans. No, let's not have any more civil rights for them. No. So he got impeached, he wasn't removed. But he was the first president to be impeached. Richard Nixon. Here's another example of a man acting out of the context of what was acceptable in his times. No, he wasn't impeached because he was forced to resign. He lost the support of his own Republican Party. So what is the difference when it comes to Donald Trump, a president who's been impeached twice and not removed, he's not being held accountable. He's pushing against this for more executive power. It is not acceptable in the 21st century, but so far, he has yet to be held to account. Presidents have formal powers and informal powers, but one of the key ones is, of course, executive orders. We've already heard it tonight, but I would just like to point out that there was a little bit of fake news over there. Okay, so let me get the numbers straight. In his first hundred days, which is why we're here in the first place, Donald Trump signed no less than 147 executive orders. Now, to put that in context, Joe Biden signed a similar number. That's what you heard. But over four years, not 100 days. Big difference. So Donald Trump has brought up the yearly average executive orders since 1944, all the way through the modern presidency, since FDR. Now, he has also used his pardon power, his clemency power, another formal power. Most controversially, in his first hundred days, we already mentioned the pardoning of 1500 January 6th rioters. Hugely controversial and a huge push in the use of executive power. He is the commander in chief, another immensely important formal power. What is he using it for? Well, so far, thank goodness, he's only organizing himself a birthday military parade. And how much is this going to cost, you ask? Well, the Guardian suggests it could cost up to 45 million American dollars for the American taxpayer to pay. Does this sound like the leader of the Western democracy? What they would do? He likes to create crises. Now, we all know that when there's a crisis, for example, he was in charge when there was Covid, when there was crisis with black Lives matter. George Floyd economic crisis related to Covid. How badly he mishandled and mismanaged that. Why does he like to therefore create crises? Because he can control them. It's this idea of controlling. Andrew Jackson, a president he most admires, used to use the phrase I am the storm. That's the idea. It's like he wants to be the storm. He wants to control the narrative and create these crises. No, thank you. To establish himself as more powerful, pushing back against traditional allies. Can I think of an example? Too many, but I'll give you a couple. Recently, he's got really keen on this idea of an Iran nuclear treaty. Wow. I feel like I'm in 2015 again. Wait, we had one of those. Oh, yeah. It was under President Barack Obama. And yet because it was associated with Obama, it became no more under Trump. And now he's trying to create a treaty with no trust whatsoever. He talked in his election about the Panama Canal, and most egregiously recently, in terms of the economy, his tariff wars, going after America's one of their oldest and strongest allies. Canada. Why fentanyl? It's racing across the border. We got to stop it. It's dangerous. How much fentanyl comes across the Canadian U.S. border? 0.01%. I'm sorry, that's wrong. Less than 0.01% comes across the U.S. canadian border. And of course, I would be remiss to talk about Donald Trump if not to talk about immigration and his deportation policies. From the start of his political career a mere 10 years ago, his immigration rhetoric rested on xenophobia and racism. And I'm not going to dignify this chamber by repeating some of it. What it has created is it has encouraged some of the worst of Americans and statements to come out to feel vindicated. For example, in American campuses today, after his re election, 2024, some Republican student groups were actually encouraging their fellow students to report other students they believed to be there illegally. So you are now innocent. No longer innocent before proven guilty. He has been told by the Supreme Court, his own Supreme Court, one might say, considering that he appointed three of the justices, that he must return a man who should not have been deported to El Salvador's max security prison. He must return him and he refuses to do it. The president has enforcement. He is utilizing this power to an extreme extent, like this. He is mirroring Jackson. Jackson is the one who, 200 years ago, almost 200 years ago in 1832, the Supreme Court said, no Cherokees, Native Americans must be able to stay on their land. They said this to someone who had driven through the Indian removal act of 1830, and Andrew Jackson ignored it. Why? Because he was living in the democracy of the white man. That was almost 200 years ago. Thank God we no longer live in the democracy of the man. Although I do notice a bit of a gender divide here, which may reflect the support that Donald Trump has and that gender divide of his own. Another really interesting thing I find about Donald Trump and his use of power and deportation and immigration policies creating the crisis. He seems to be really fixated on a potential genocide in South Africa against white South Africans. Nobody else has really heard of this, and yet white South Africans, no. Thank you. You'll get your chance, Mr. Kirk. Like my sins, they get their chance. So these white South Africans are able to come and relocate to the United States, while others, including those of minority racial and ethnic backgrounds, do not get that privileged opportunity. The same privileged opportunity. Finally, I'd be remiss, without mentioning Doge, of course, I mentioned before, Elon Musk. I mentioned before how he was unelected, getting hand cramped there, Mr. Kirk. Lots of notes. I'm looking forward to it. Oh, I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to it. So when it comes to Doge, we know that he is not the first president to try and reorganize and restructure the American government. William Taft there, 1909, 1913, he did it from a fashion of organizing, of steadying it, of specialism. This was a period in which Congress and he got together while he used unilateral power, got together and worked together to ensure that they had someone who was a specialist in government to study it. For almost four years before slashing, there was no chainsaw government. It was streamlining government. And it certainly wasn't denigrating those very unflashy civil service jobs that people do tirelessly day in and day out, and mostly thanklessly as well. So, ladies and gentlemen, I ask you in my final 30 seconds, 20 seconds, how do we judge whether a president has gone too far when the method that the founders gave us, the high crimes and misdemeanor, the last block of check, the impeachment mechanism seems meaningless for a man who has been impeached twice. How do we hold him to account? Well, by the only means that we know how and that we spearheaded, we must vote. We must vote. In proposition, we must vote by democratic means to prove that, that Donald Trump has gone too far. Thank you very much.
- [41:51]
Charlie Kirk
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- [42:53]
Anya Trafimovia
And now, closing the case for the opposition and indeed the whole debate, Mr. Charlie Kirk.
- [43:01]
Moderator or Debate Host
Got my timer. Okay, before I begin my prepared remarks, I feel like I gotta run the gauntlet first. I'll give you a thousand pounds right now if you could tell me the US citizen that was deported under Donald Trump. You said that twice. Yeah, the US citizen that was deported under Donald Trump. Can anyone tell me thousand pounds? I'll give it to you right now. Yeah, name Wrong. Not a US Citizen. Salvador citizen, El Salvador.
- [43:26]
Charlie Kirk
Anyone else?
- [43:27]
Moderator or Debate Host
US Citizen deported under Trump. Nope. That was a lie. You should know better than that. You go to Oxford. So that is a correction. Number two, can you tell me when it comes to Charlottesville, something you said? When Donald Trump said that there were people on both sides, he was actually talking about the statue debate, not what you said. So that's a hoax. That's line number two. Oh, yeah, you said that somebody over here said something about Pete Hegseth being nothing more than a TV host. You should also mention that he was a service member of the military. Nope, sorry. I'm going to talk uninterruptedly. Thank you. Service member and was in a decorated war hero. Funny you didn't mention that. Oh, yes, January 6th came up multiple times. From you tried your best, but from you and from the opposition, it's not an insurrection. You've called them all rioters. It's funny, a small percentage of people that were actually there on January 6th did anything violently. The vast majority walked into the Capitol building after they were invited. Also, back to your point, I certainly hope reform and AFD wins. So I hope that it's not to teach Trump a lesson that he goes too far. We'll get that in a second. Finally, the Donald Duck really like, what was that all about? What is this jar? I have no idea what you're talking about. In the back of the room. It's like, it's completely lost on me, so I don't know what that. What that's all about. Also, on the Canadian border, the professor failed to mention that the Canadian border was closed. President Trump said fentanyl and the amount of terrorists that are coming across the Canadian border, which. The most terrorists that come into America come across the Canadian border. On the terrorist watch list, you did not mention that. And finally, professor, you never heard of it in South Africa. Interesting. You never heard of that. The fact that a major political party in South Africa says, quote, kill the Boers. Kill the Boers. I would expect more of somebody who read dissertation and teaches here at Oxford to say that you would not know about the attempted slaughter and genocide of white South Africans. Okay, now onto we. I'm sure there's lots of pois, and I will talk uninterrupted now to my remarks, but actually, is that all of it? Let me see here. Yeah, that's just a taste. Hello, everybody. It's great to be here tonight. Thank you to the Oxford Union for inviting me. I never went to university. I take that as a great compliment. So therefore, everyone who went to university should be able to run circles around me. You'll be the judge, but I'll do my best. Has Donald Trump gone too far? Well, I can nitpick at how vague that question is. What is too far exactly?
- [45:54]
Charlie Kirk
Are his tweets too long?
- [45:56]
Moderator or Debate Host
Can all of us even agree on what we're aiming at? I don't think so. The truth is this. If you dislike the west and if you hate the West's values, if you think the west is evil fundamentally and deserves to be destroyed, then anything Donald Trump does, basically, short of surrender, will be too far for you. If I was visiting this school 100 years ago, speaking in support of an American president, I think we would at least have some broad agreement on what a country's leader should be trying to do. But we don't anymore. I don't think it's Because America's changed. In fact, I think it's because Britain has changed. From my perspective, Britain is one of the greatest countries in the history of the world. You were the country of Shakespeare, the steam engine and Adam Smith. You defeated Napoleon, you destroyed the slave trade, you stood up to Hitler. My country, America, became great as it is because of what we inherited from you, from Britain. When I hear the slogan make America great again, I'm also hearing, quote, return America to its British roots. Great Britain has everything in the world to be proud of. But when I look at Britain today, I see a country where the ruling elites are in a race to abandon the very values, the values that made them so great in the first place. I wish I could blame this all on labor and all on the left, but I can't. This country just had its 14th uninterrupted.
- [47:17]
Charlie Kirk
Year of so called Conservative rule.
- [47:19]
Moderator or Debate Host
And what did they conserve exactly? Well, they didn't conserve the ancient British rights to freedom of speech. In Britain today, 30 people a day are arrested for for offensive posts on social media. According to the Telegraph, praying silently within 600ft of an abortion clinic can get you arrested. In Scotland, as a 74 year old woman named Rose just learned. Weeks ago, members of Parliament scold British citizens for thinking they have the right to say things, say that they do not have the right to say things that offend Muslims. 14 years of conservative rule didn't conserve British prosperity. Adjusted for inflation, cost of living, the average British worker makes less today than they did in 2008. Outside of London, the British have lower incomes than every one of America's 50 states. And it never used to be this way. British industry pays four times as much for electricity as America does. You have the highest electricity rates in the world. A consequence of a choice of going net neutral. Nothing will kill a modern economy faster than high energy prices. And the country that again that invented the steam engine now has some of the highest energy prices on the planet. But above all, 14 years of conservative control didn't preserve the British nation. This country's conservatives thought it was their moral duty to allow anyone from the third world to move here. They didn't need to hold Western values, they didn't need to have useful skills. They could go on welfare immediately. Just last week, Keir Starmer announced he's changing the law to make sure immigrants who commit crimes are deported. Because the conservatives never actually bothered passing that law themselves. The dying out of the British nation means the dying out of Christianity. Britain is the birthplace of Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Quakers and more. I would guess that more Christian denominations trace back to Britain than any other country. But soon Britain will have more practicing Muslims than practicing Christians. I think that will be a catastrophic change and everyone knows it. That's why it's only Muslims moving to Christian countries, never the other way around. I don't want America to go the way of Britain. I want us to remain free. I want us to remain rich and innovative. I want us to remain Christian. I don't want Americans to be replaced. But forget what I want. This is what the American people want. And in a democracy, the people are supposed to get what they want. The very same people that lecture us about democracy have a lot of problems with the consequences of democracy when the people vote away that they don't like. And that's where Donald Trump comes in. When I was growing up, people would say that Britain was where America would be 10 or 20 years in the future. What they meant was that Britain was more left wing than America, but we'd catch up eventually. That's just how things were over time, and nothing could stop it. I don't hear people saying that anymore. Donald Trump is the reason why. Almost alone, Donald Trump has changed the course of history. He's destroyed the assumption that the left's victory will was inevitable. Under President Biden, more than 10 million illegal aliens entered America. Guides were published on TikTok explaining how to break into America. Say some magic words at the border and nobody would stop you. Entire neighborhoods of American cities were turned over to migrants living on the dole. America was treated as a pile of wealth for the rest of the planet to plunder at will. Now that is all stopping. President Trump has cut border crossings not 90%, not 99%, but 99.9%. For years, my country's leaders lied that the southern border was an unfixable mess. President Trump exposed them all as liars within weeks. But closing the door didn't fix the damage that Biden did. We have well over 10 million people in America who should not be in America. If somebody breaks into your home, you don't fix the problem by closing your door and locking it. Things aren't fixed until the burglar is kicked out. And President Trump has been fighting harder than ever to make that happen. But I'd be happy if we fought even harder. Of course, illegal migration isn't the only threat facing America. In Joe Biden's America, we had the tyranny of dei, even though America's constitution explicitly forbids racial Discrimination. Our government ordered people to do it anyway. People were denied jobs and denied promotions. Kids were shut out of universities based on the color of their skin or rather than their ability. Companies were denied federal contracts because their owners didn't look a certain way. People who didn't discriminate enough in hiring could be sued by the government. Every company in America lived in fear of their government deciding to target them for offenses against dei. Trump has ordered DEI to be torn down, but I want him to tear it down faster. I want every university told that they're losing all federal dollars immediately if they don't stop racial discrimination. I want the Department of Justice to start auditing, auditing every federal contractor to find DEI and shut off contracts immediately wherever we find it. This is a kind of cancer that cannot be phased out. It must be ripped out from the core. The same goes for the toxic social contagion of transgenderism and Joe Biden's America. Public schools and medical organizations were co opted into endorsing this insanity. They urge children just 10 years old or younger to take barely tested hormones and surgically alter their bodies. In some of America's liberal states, a parent who objects to their child's transition can lose custody. I've met detransitioners who escaped from this social poison. They tell me that getting sucked into the first place was the greatest mistake of their lives. President Trump has taken steps to stop promoting this lunacy. He's acted to protect women's sports. Another POI I meant to make. She said it's only a couple dozen and 890 biological men have stolen awards, trophies and championships from women in America. It's not a couple dozen. Over 890 women were displaced by pervert men. That's why I want Donald Trump's administration and why I support it. It's mostly what I've gotten. But I want more of it. I'll be honest. We the American people, we want more deportations. We want more peace deals. We want more woke colleges defunded. We want more DEI parasites to lose their jobs. The American people voted to put America first. And you know what? You should all too. This is my final point. You should want to preserve and restore the greatness of Britain. You should want the decline to stop and you can make it happen. Starmer wouldn't be saying any what he's saying without what President Trump is doing. If you are honest with yourself. If you want a Great Britain again, not a mediocre Britain. If you want a Britain that you could be proud of you should all be wearing MAGA hats and cheering Donald Trump on every step of the way. Thank you very much.
- [53:42]
Charlie Kirk
Thanks so much for listening everybody. Email us as always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening and God bless.
- [53:50]
Moderator or Debate Host
For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.