Charlie vs. The Students of Riverside

Summary

Summary of "Charlie vs. The Students of Riverside" Episode of The Charlie Kirk Show

Release Date: June 28, 2025
Podcast Title: The Charlie Kirk Show
Episode Title: Charlie vs. The Students of Riverside

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Introduction

In this episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, host Charlie Kirk engages in a spirited debate with a group of students from the University of California, Riverside (UCR). The discussion spans several contentious topics, including abortion, immigration, meritocracy in the American Dream, mass incarceration, and the value of college education. Throughout the conversation, both Kirk and the students present their viewpoints, challenging each other's perspectives with questions and counterarguments.

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Abortion Debate

Student’s Perspective on Abortion and Rape (02:07 - 05:20):
A student initiates the discussion by addressing the complex issue of abortion, particularly in cases of rape. Sharing a personal perspective, the student explains a shift from being pro-choice to reconsidering that stance after becoming a parent. The student poses the question: "Would you be able to just defend just any abortion or non abortions on rape?"

Charlie Kirk’s Response (03:01 - 05:20):
Kirk acknowledges the tragedy of rape but maintains a pro-life stance, arguing that abortion is the taking of a life and equates it to murder. He employs a thought experiment using ultrasounds to emphasize that all unborn children are human beings, regardless of the circumstances of their conception. Kirk states, "They're both human beings. Regardless of the method of conception." He further argues that trauma is not a justifiable reason to terminate a life, asserting, "Trauma is never an excuse for taking a life."

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Immigration Discussion

Student’s View on Immigration Benefits and Systemic Issues (11:16 - 19:54):
Another student presents a nuanced view of immigration, recognizing its contributions to America while highlighting systemic challenges. The student shares a personal connection, detailing their parents' legal immigration process and the extended wait times for visas. They reference religious texts to underscore the moral imperative to welcome strangers fleeing dire circumstances but criticize the inefficiencies and perceived injustices in current immigration policies.

Charlie Kirk’s Counterpoints (12:22 - 19:54):
Kirk takes a more restrictive stance on immigration, distinguishing between legal and illegal immigrants. He argues that illegal immigrants are criminals for breaking federal laws, stating, "By definition, they're breaking federal law." Kirk emphasizes the strain on resources in states like California, citing overcrowded hospitals and schools. He advocates for a pause on immigration to prevent cultural and societal assimilation issues, asserting, "Immigration is something that you use as a way to benefit the homeland. You don't have to have immigration." Kirk also addresses the potential consequences of mass immigration on both the U.S. and the countries immigrants are leaving, suggesting that empowering these nations to improve is a better solution.

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Meritocracy and the American Dream

Student Advocates for College Education (21:24 - 32:29):
A student challenges Kirk's assertion that college is a scam by arguing that higher education provides significant economic and societal benefits. They cite statistics indicating that college graduates earn higher incomes and have lower unemployment rates compared to those with only a high school diploma. The student contends that while not everyone benefits equally from college, the data supports its value and emphasizes personal accountability in utilizing educational resources effectively.

Charlie Kirk’s Rebuttal (22:55 - 32:29):
Kirk counters by questioning the validity of the statistics presented, arguing that averages are skewed by high-earning professions like doctors and engineers. He highlights the availability of lucrative jobs that do not require a college degree, such as plumbing, welding, and electrical work, which can offer substantial earnings without the burden of student debt. Kirk asserts, "They don't have to go into debt, they don't have to get any degree." He also raises concerns about the relevance of certain college degrees in the face of technological advancements like artificial intelligence, suggesting that many educational programs may not adequately prepare students for the evolving job market.

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Mass Incarceration

Student’s Question on Mass Incarceration (32:30 - 33:17):
A student probes Kirk on the topic of mass incarceration, questioning its morality if imprisonment solely results from criminal actions. They challenge the notion that mass incarceration is inherently racist by sharing their personal experience as a Black individual who has not been incarcerated.

Charlie Kirk’s Response (32:45 - 33:17):
Kirk defends mass incarceration, arguing that increasing the prison population is necessary and that prisoners are often released too quickly. He dismisses the claim that the justice system is rigged against Black individuals, labeling such assertions as indicative of a racist viewpoint.

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Final Abortion Discussion

In-Depth Abortion Dialogue (34:24 - 43:44):
Towards the episode's conclusion, a student and Kirk delve deeper into the abortion debate, intertwining religious perspectives with scientific reasoning. The student references Biblical passages to argue that causing a miscarriage warrants punishment, interpreting these scriptures as supporting a pro-life stance. Kirk responds by distinguishing between miscarriages caused by external violence and consensual abortions, advocating for cesarean sections as an alternative to terminating pregnancies.

The student challenges Kirk's views by highlighting scenarios where a newborn may not survive post-abortion procedures, emphasizing the ethical complexities involved. Kirk maintains that the decision to terminate should not be based on probabilistic outcomes regarding the baby’s survival, reinforcing his belief in protecting all unborn lives.

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Conclusion

The episode concludes with both parties acknowledging their fundamental disagreements, exemplifying the polarized nature of contemporary political discourse. Charlie Kirk reaffirms his commitment to conservative principles, while the students advocate for nuanced, compassionate approaches to complex social issues.

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Notable Quotes

• Charlie Kirk on Abortion:
  "They’re both human beings. Regardless of the method of conception." [03:44]

• Student on Immigration:
  "It's a hard thing to do... it's just like a hard thing to do." [19:50]

• Charlie Kirk on College Education:
  "Let me tell you why. Because you're taking the top income earners of doctors and lawyers and engineers and it brings the average up even more." [24:06]

• Student on Meritocracy:
  "Most of us here believe in the American dream. And one of the core aspects of the American dream is a meritocracy." [29:21]

• Charlie Kirk on Mass Incarceration:
  "There’s nothing wrong with mass incarceration. In fact, we need more prisoners in this country, not less prisoners." [32:45]

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Closing Remarks

The episode offers a comprehensive exploration of several divisive issues, showcasing the depth of ideological divides between conservative viewpoints and those advocating for more progressive policies. Charlie Kirk's firm stances provide a clear representation of conservative thought, while the students' questions and counterarguments highlight the challenges faced in public discourse today.

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For more insights and discussions on America’s culture war, visit Charlie Kirk’s website.

Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey everybody.

[Unknown Host]

My debate straight from a college campus brought to you this Saturday. I think you'll really enjoy this back and forth with the students.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, everybody.

[Unknown Host]

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[Charlie Kirk]

Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here.

[Unknown Student]

Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

I want you to know we are.

[Charlie Kirk]

Lucky to have Charlie Kirk.

[Unknown Student]

Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Charlie Kirk]

I want to thank Charlie.

[Unknown Student]

He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country.

[Charlie Kirk]

He's done an amazing job building one.

[Unknown Student]

Of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country.

[Unknown Host]

That's why we are here. Noble Gold Investments is the official gold sponsor of the Charlie Kirk Show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you could protect your wealth with Noble gold [e-mail] that is noblegoldinvestments.com it's where I buy all of my gold. Go to noblegoldinvestments.com.

[Unknown Student]

What'S up, Charlie? Hey, dude. So first out, welcome to California. Riverside. What's up, Riverside? How's everyone doing so far? Yeah.

All right, cool.

So I'm just going to get started. Typically, I agree on a lot of stuff that you state so literally in everything. The only reason I came up to debate was about abortions and rape abortions. And so recently I was kind of for abortions pro choice. I recently had a daughter. She's seven weeks old and I can't imagine living without her. So I appreciate it. And my only concern, as I was thinking about it, it's just hard for girls that do happen to get raped, you know, whether they're unconscious and drugged or just whatever happens, incest or whatever. Would you be able to just defend just any abortion or non abortions on rape? And if I could just hear your point of view on that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, for sure. Thank you for the good faith question and praise God that you welcomed the daughter into this world. That's the best. That's the best thing you said. Look, needless to say, rape is a tragic thing and it's terrible. We believe that abortion is the taking of a life, which would be murder. Can I do a thought exercise with you? Is that okay? Yeah, of course. Okay, so I actually have a picture. I brought it here because I do this so many times. So I have two ultrasounds here. You know what ultrasound is?

[Unknown Student]

Yeah, this isn't the dolphin, is it?

[Charlie Kirk]

No. These are two human beings.

[Unknown Student]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

One of these two ultrasounds is a baby conceived in rape. Which one is it?

[Unknown Student]

I'm assuming the one on the left.

[Charlie Kirk]

No.

[Unknown Student]

No.

Okay. Oh, you know what? I don't know.

[Charlie Kirk]

You get the point.

[Unknown Student]

Yes, yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

They're both human beings.

[Unknown Student]

Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

Regardless of the method of conception. They're both human beings.

[Unknown Student]

Awesome. Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

And it's not a gotcha. I just want you to think, of course, because these are both human beings made in the image of God. The process of conception does not give you more or less rights, of course. And so we also do not believe that an evil action after an evil action is the right course. And so we believe that a human being must be protected. We must be consistent in that. And I've met thousands of people now across the country, hundreds, I'll say, of people that were conceived and raped. And the mom was courageous enough to bring that baby to term. And now they're able to live amazing lives. And so we must be consistent that human beings are made in the image of God. They have a soul. And that just because of the method, your conception, you don't get to have your life taken away from you.

[Unknown Student]

Yes, sir. Now, what about the trauma that it may or may not bring? The mother just kind of living on like her own self, maybe can't defend having the baby just because she wasn't ready in the first place. And, you know, now her whole life just got switched around. If you can explain that for me, please.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, so it's a little bit of A false choice. Because an abortion can also be very traumatic as well. To say that there's. That abortion is just like getting a haircut. It's nonsensical. It's not just the cosmetic procedure.

[Unknown Student]

Yeah, I agree.

[Charlie Kirk]

And so we acknowledge, of course, that there can be trauma, but trauma is never an excuse for taking a life. If you say, I have a mental health issue, are you allowed to take somebody else's life? Of course not. That's never morally defensible. Under no moral framework are we able to say that that is true or correct. Cool.

[Unknown Student]

I appreciate it. Also, I have a second question real fast, really quick. I'm sorry. So we're five months into the President Trump's presidency and a lot of Democrats will state, you know, like, oh, he's doing this wrong. And this, this, this, the gas prices are still up, the food is still up. When do you think we will see?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, gas prices in California are up, actually, across the country. They're going down dramatically. One of the reasons is that Gavin Newsom and Democrats have intentionally done this boom. The way that again, it's a little wonky, but it's a refinery issue. You guys have made a decision here in this state to have intentionally high gas prices. And because of that, your leaders here in California, they basically almost wanted to make it impossible to own a petroleum based, petroleum fired vehicle. And we want to try to bring gas prices down for all Americans. One of the reasons why I hope that you guys get a new governor in 2026.

[Unknown Student]

Bianco, baby. Awesome.

[Charlie Kirk]

Would you mind? Thank you.

[Unknown Student]

Can I come shake?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, sure.

[Unknown Student]

Of course.

[Charlie Kirk]

You would like a hat, too? Yeah. God bless you, man. Thank you. Here's your hat. Thank you. Next question. Great, thank you.

[Unknown Student]

All right. Well, good afternoon. Been a longtime fan, but thank you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Just talk right into the mic if you can, please.

[Unknown Student]

Okay. The topic I want to discuss with you today is it's. Sorry, it's on reparations, but more so why there's a bias towards black Americans when it comes to reparations. Now, I understand that no black American alive has ever been a slave. I acknowledge that. However, sorry. The point I wanted to make is that reparations have been given to other ethnic groups, Asian Americans for their incarceration during World War II, native Hawaiians. Sorry, I wrote it all down. But even former slave owners, specifically the ones in the north, that had to give up their slaves, they were compensated for former slaves. However, why is it that when it comes to black people receiving reparations, there seems to be A lot of pushback to the point where now, you know, there's, you know, now it's almost laughable to even think about black people getting reparations for something in the past.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, for any of those examples, was there intergenerational reparations given?

[Unknown Student]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

So they're not necessarily applicable. Right. So those were the actual people that received it because a wrong was done to them. We're talking about something 150 years removed. And also, not every black person is a descendant of slaves. Some are, some are mixed race, some are able to prove that. But I think more importantly, we should ask the question, have we spent a lot of money on the black community the last 50 years? And if so, has it worked?

[Unknown Student]

That's a good question. Because I mean, obviously there are certain communities in black America that are not so great. You know, some of them, some of the traumas and problems they have are of their own making. I acknowledge that. Thankfully, I was raised away from all that. Two loving parents. But.

[Charlie Kirk]

And that's the greatest thing that you are one of the, if not the greatest. And that's my hope for every child, black, white or Asian, to have two people parents. That is a ticket to success. Please continue.

[Unknown Student]

But the example I wanted to use was the two Tulsa survivors. They tried, you know, their age, you know, over 100 years old, they've tried to sue the Oklahoma government for reparations for their lost property. And they were actually denied reparations. And to me, when, when I read about that, because that, to me that was kind of the test to see, like, okay, they say reparations shouldn't go to people who weren't directly affected. Well, here we have two people who were directly affected who were there and they were still denied reparations. So to me, that kind of confirmed that it was never about who was directly affected or not. To me it just sounds like there's a bias towards black Americans.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, I don't know about that instance. I'll look into it. But more broadly, I do want to just repeat the point and something to think about. You don't have to answer it. That we've spent trillions of dollars on trying to improve the well being of black Americans since the 1960s. And actually black America is poorer per capita and on average in relation to other groups than it was in the 1960s. So I would argue it's actually not a resource or a money thing. It's a values thing. And the values, unfortunately, that are predominantly in the black community right now are quasi, suicidal, fair, point.

[Unknown Student]

But yeah, basically I just wanted you to. I didn't know if I was going to change your mind, but it's something I wanted you to think about.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'll research the example that you gave and thank you for watching our content and being a supporter.

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[Unknown Student]

Hi, good afternoon. So my sense today is honestly on immigration. So I think, okay, so my stance today is on immigration. I think that immigration contributes a lot to America. So my parents did come here legally and they right now are in the process again and it takes a long time. No, they came here legally like they came with their visa and now they're renewing it. And it's a different process right now. But so I'm really religious. I'm Catholic. My parents grew me up that way. And in Matthew 2:13 15 it talks about how Jesus has to flee Nazareth or no Bethlehem, Sorry. He had to flee because someone was going to die and they were looking to kill him and he had to flee his own country and leave everything behind because an angel spoke to Mary and Joseph that they should leave. So a lot of people do that. That's why they immigrate to the United States. A lot of people have to leave everything behind because not everyone just wants to pack up all their things and leave right now. I personally would hate if I had to sell my car, my house, leave my parents, leave my friends, and leave everyone. So I just want to know what your stance is on that. Just because in The Bible, it talks about that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right. So first of all, Jesus actually didn't emigrate. He stayed within the confines of the Roman Empire because Egypt was actually other under Roman jurisdiction. That's a separate point. But there are plenty of verses that says, you should welcome the stranger. And so I will grant you that. I guess the first point, the first point I would have to ask is, should immigration always benefit the home country?

[Unknown Student]

I think so, yes. And that is one thing that I looked into. So there are immigrants right now working here. Correct. And they get some of their paycheck cut off. Right. Because of Social Security and all those benefits, but they don't get those benefits because they're illegal.

[Charlie Kirk]

Legal or illegal immigrants. That distinction is very important.

[Unknown Student]

Illegal, illegal. Get those benefits.

[Charlie Kirk]

So let's just be clear. If they have a Social Security number, how'd they get that the right way? They stole it. You don't get a Social Security number as an illegal, period. It does not happen. They stole it, so that's an act of theft. So they stole an American Social Security number to be able to work here, which drives down wages, which drives down opportunity costs. But even beyond that, we just have to look at their action. They were not invited to come to this country. They broke in line, they cut in line. And we should not reward line cutters or border jumpers. We should reward people like your parents that actually came here legally to this country.

[Unknown Student]

Yeah, I understand that point. I really do. But sometimes people generally need to leave their country because in, like, my mother's case, for instance, there was like a terrorist attack on my family, and that's the reason my mom had to come. And thankfully she did get it immediately. But now I've heard of so many stories where people have to wait like 10 years, 20 years, even 30 years. Like my grandma right now is trying to get the process, and thankfully she is now, but it's taken her about 10 years now, and she makes enough money in her country and she just wants to come here as a tourist. That's the main reason. And I do understand that. I think that my main point is that how we should implement more money into the immigration system because Trump's zero tolerance policy, that just felt cruel because there's a lot of people here that are doing well, and zero tolerance, they just have to leave the country. I feel like that was inhumane of him.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, but it's not their country, though. And that's the. So let me just. Here's. If I went to Mexico without being invited or allowed, and I Took a job and the Mexican government found out. What would the Mexican government do to me? I'm not sure they would send me back to America.

[Unknown Student]

And why was the reason you left the US First?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, again, so, okay, as far as the audio guys, we're going as loud as the university allows us. There's a decibel count, so. So we're going to keep pushing the amount as much as we can. Okay. So we get in trouble, I'll blame all of you. So, reason, that's an interesting thing. Is there ever a legitimate reason, in your opinion, to commit a crime?

[Unknown Student]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, then the reason doesn't matter because under that say, so let's. Can you rob a bank because you wish you had more money?

[Unknown Student]

No. You work harder.

[Charlie Kirk]

Then why doesn't that moral standard apply to immigration?

[Unknown Student]

Because the system is. It isn't doing its job. That's why I think we should implement more money. Because there is some people, like, I do get it. You know, some people come here and then I do admit some of them commit crime, but not all of them.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, no. But they're all criminals if they came illegally. That's the distinction. By definition, they're breaking federal law. 8 USC 1312. Just their presence here is against the law.

[Unknown Student]

And let's say you're here in the U.S. okay, you have, from what I think I've heard, I think you have two daughters, correct?

[Charlie Kirk]

Daughter and a son.

[Unknown Student]

Daughter and a son. Okay. You have a daughter and a son. Let's say someone is attacking your family, like targeting you guys, you. You love your children, I'm assuming.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. Actually, someone. Every day we get death threats. So this is not an abstraction. And I'm not leaving America.

[Unknown Student]

That makes sense. But because the United States.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, so it's actually very real. Every day someone says they want to murder me and kill my family.

[Unknown Student]

Family.

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm staying.

[Unknown Student]

But has anyone genuinely ever like, driven to your house, done, like a drive by?

[Charlie Kirk]

I'm not going to get into the details, but plenty of people have been arrested trying to kill me. So, I mean, but here's the. Here's the idea. And by the way, if we apply this, if we apply that logic, that if somebody is in danger, they're allowed to come to America, would you be okay welcoming in 500 million people into America?

[Unknown Student]

That's why we should implement the system to understand each case.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you think 500 million people would be too many people?

[Unknown Student]

500 million. I don't even think that would fit the United States.

[Charlie Kirk]

I agree. And that's the point is that if everyone all of a sudden declared that their life was in danger, we'd have to let in, like all of Nicaragua, all of Honduras, almost all of Venezuela. The standard all of a sudden starts falling apart and we find that people lie about this, they deceive it. Here's my perspective. Why don't we try to empower those people to make the countries they're coming from greater and stronger, else the problem will actually never be fixed at the root level. Does that make sense?

[Unknown Student]

It does make sense, and I wish it was that easy. So, for instance, I am part Peruvian, and in Peru, so they were having a presidential election and the president who was going to win was better for the country and would help out a lot more. But since it's corrupt, they made the other president win. They sent him death threats, nearly almost killed him. He had to fake his death and leave. And they jailed her. They jailed her completely. And they let the guy win. That is why it's corrupt. It's hard to fix a country when there's no help towards it. So Peru was. They were rooting for the good president. They were rooting to build their system back up. But the other president, it was rigged. It was completely rigged.

[Charlie Kirk]

So does it make it better or worse? If millions of people leave that country for Peru?

[Unknown Student]

Can you, like, what do you mean.

[Charlie Kirk]

By if 3 million people left Peru, does Peru get greater or weaker? Stronger or weaker?

[Unknown Student]

Neither. I mean, it's in a weak state right now.

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, it's pretty obvious. I'm trying to even say that mass immigration is bad for everybody. It's bad for America and it's bad for the country that people are leaving from. The only difference is that they send back American money through remittances that actually subsidize this entire thing. Let me ask one final question. If somebody comes into America without invitation and they are illegal, what do you think the penalty should be?

[Unknown Student]

I think it's humane to look at their case and why they had to leave everything they've ever known.

[Charlie Kirk]

We believe that we should send them back to their country of origin.

[Unknown Student]

I just want to make one more final point. So I do understand that. But my final point is that do you agree that we should implement more money to the immigration system?

[Unknown Host]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

I think we should have no immigrants in the country for the next 10 years. We have way too many people in this country. And I'll prove it to you. Here in California, your hospitals are overrun, your schools are overrun. Do you guys agree that you have A crowded state right now. California is a cluttered state with social services that are being strained. And we need a pause on all immigration, in my opinion, to metaphorically digest the major meal that we just ate. Or else we are going to have a major, major assimilation problem, cultural problem, cohesion problem, all sorts of issues. And I know this is a provocative thing to say, but immigration is something that you use as a way to benefit the homeland. You don't have to have immigration.

[Unknown Student]

But just as an example, my parents came here, like I said, legally $0 and they have benefited so much of the country. They have made so much like hundreds and thousands dollars.

[Charlie Kirk]

Praise God. That's the American dream.

[Unknown Student]

It is. And it's just like a hard thing to do.

[Charlie Kirk]

And I, I want American born young people from UC Riverside to also have that American dream and not have to compete against foreigners for that. Thank you for your time.

[Unknown Student]

Can I say one point?

[Charlie Kirk]

We have a long line. Thank you.

[Unknown Student]

Really quick though.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay. Again, what is it?

[Unknown Student]

Sorry. Okay. I understand the American dream is hard. My parents, my mom was pregnant, working two jobs one day and she sacrificed everything and now she has more money than the average American.

[Charlie Kirk]

Praise God. That is the American dream. Thank you very much.

[Unknown Student]

That's hard work.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. And I'm glad she came here legally. That deserves to be applauded. Very much so. Thank you.

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[Unknown Student]

Hey Charlie. Hey everyone. How are you? So today I'll be honest. Yeah. Good to meet you. I'm not a very political person. I'm here for the Love of the game only. And I want to see your views, you know, so my topic of discussion is going to be that college is not a scam. And please hear me out till the end before I ask my question. So it kind of makes sense. So I understand all the. Everything you say. You said college is a scam. And the issue is because there's a lot of student loans, there's people who drop out of college every year, there is a lot of people who can't find jobs, governments funding it and why should taxpayers pay for it? Right. I understand it's a concern, it's valid. But at the same time, scam means fraud. And fraud is not what college is. Because colleges don't promise guaranteed success. Colleges promise access to resources which they do deliver. And it's up to the people to actually be accountable and use those resources correctly. But what happens a lot of times is that a lot of people don't use it correctly and fail. I do agree that there needs to be reforms. I think especially the funding of colleges should be reformed.

How?

The government funds may be limited, maybe more structured with more oversight, but at the end of the day, colleges do provide a lot of value to the society. And also people who do go to colleges on average, statistically earn higher income, on average have half the unemployment rate and they have more opportunities. So my question to you is, are you denying the data?

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so let's define a scam. What is a scam?

[Unknown Student]

Well, I just defined it. Fraud, right?

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes. So would you agree in a scam you force a customer to buy something against their will?

[Unknown Student]

Here's the thing.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes or no? I let you talk. Yes or no?

[Unknown Student]

Yes, but here.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, how many of you have to take classes against your will that are waste your time? Look around. Hold on, hold on. Look around. I let you talk. Look around. You haven't looked around yet.

[Unknown Student]

I've taken classes myself.

[Charlie Kirk]

Every hand is up. Hold on. You just agreed a scam would make people buy something against their will. And every hand went up in the audience saying they have to take classes against their will. You just now agreed, using Aristotelian logic, that that was a scam.

[Unknown Student]

Hold on. Don't people choose to go to college?

[Charlie Kirk]

Not always. That's a very. Well, of course they have the agency.

[Unknown Student]

The right to go to college.

[Charlie Kirk]

A lot are pressured by parents. Timeout. Of course they have the agency to do that. But there's a cultural expectation to get that piece of paper. Secondly, to your point about earning more money, do you know half of the Kids in this audience, if they get a job, they'll get a job that does not require a college degree.

[Unknown Student]

I've actually fact checked your data.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's from the Department of Education.

[Unknown Student]

Yeah, that's true. The reality is that's true only for entry level roles later in the career. That's not the case. Average College graduate earns 80% higher income compared to high school graduates if they graduate.

[Charlie Kirk]

See, that's a, that's a deceiving statistics. I wrote a whole book on this. It's very deceiving. Let me tell you why. Because you're taking the top income earners of doctors and lawyers and engineers and it brings the average up even more. When in reality you look at people who study the humanities. You have a big humanities school at UC Riverside. They will on average earn maybe 50 or 60,000 a year.

[Unknown Student]

Second, even liberal arts graduates earn 15 to 40,000 more than high school graduates.

[Charlie Kirk]

Incorrect. That's old data.

[Unknown Student]

That's correct.

[Charlie Kirk]

How many here.

[Unknown Student]

That's correct.

[Charlie Kirk]

How many people here would be thrilled earning $70,000 a year right now?

[Unknown Student]

That's higher than the average.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wrong. According to the Wall Street Journal, hundreds of thousands of high school juniors, high school juniors getting $70,000 a year job offers for not going to college to become plumbers, welders and electricians. They don't have to go to college. They don't have to get student loan debt. Let me, I let you talk. Let me talk. So they don't have to go into debt, they don't have to get any degree. I'm sure almost everyone in this audience be like, boy, I would kill to earn 70 grand a year. And yet how many people in this audience were told a fair hearing, hey, you don't need to go to four year college. You could earn 70 grand as a high school junior to become a welder. That is not a true.

[Unknown Student]

Labor statistics says that on average the college graduates earn about 30% higher than trade school graduates. And again, I agree there's alternatives. College is not for everyone. I totally agree with you. People could go to trade school, they could start a business, but everything comes with risk. We got to look at what is called promising the students. College is promising access to resources.

[Charlie Kirk]

And it provides incorrect colleges implicitly and explicitly through their website and their promotional material. Tell parents that if you come here, you will have a better life instead. That is, that is, I guarantee you, if someone show me one website.

[Unknown Student]

I've looked all over the place. I haven't seen a single university that guarantees success or happiness.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on a second. They promise resources Said implicitly and explicitly recently, almost every single college has on their website. Preparing leaders for a better tomorrow. Preparing leaders for an ever changing world. And if you go through that, they have all these deceiving statistics that if you come to this college for four years. Allow me to finish talking. Okay. Again for four years. Yep. Someone. We're gonna keep going. Don't stare. We tried to warn about that. Get them some water. Yeah. And you get a signed hat. Don't faint just for the signed hat. Of course I acknowledge that some college graduates do better. That window is increasingly closing. Now let me ask you another argument that you might not be prepared for. Almost everybody in this audience is studying something that will be irrelevant because of artificial intelligence. Do you think at this school every single course and every degree is really prepared for the AI revolution that is coming next?

[Unknown Student]

Now let me ask you a question.

[Charlie Kirk]

You have to answer mine.

[Unknown Student]

What are your alternatives?

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, I have plenty.

[Unknown Host]

So actually work.

[Charlie Kirk]

You know, there's 11 million job openings right now that pay you more than $75,000 a year that don't require a college degree. Right now.

[Unknown Student]

But did you know 11 million, over 95% of US employers still require a college degree from mid to high roles and about 40%.

[Charlie Kirk]

I understand that that's actually. Again, you didn't even answer my question. You're dodging it. But that's again, that number is coming down at Secondly, 11 million jobs that pay more than $75,000 a year that don't require a college degree. My alternative also is this. If you want to get something specialized, of course go to college. The vast majority of kids that go to college are studying the humanities, soft social sciences, psychology or communications. They're not starting to become engineers or doctors or nurses. All of which I totally understand. And what you're basically saying your argument, which is true, but it's fraudulent. Come here to get a piece of paper. Because once you get the piece of paper, then you'll get a job.

[Unknown Student]

It's not true. No one is promising that college promises access to resources, access to preparation, to leadership. Doesn't mean guarantee. Again, only gives access. You are the one responsible.

[Charlie Kirk]

There are plenty of examples.

[Unknown Student]

And people should take accountability for their actions. If they come to college and be like classes they are going to do, they have nothing.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do they have job preparedness at the school?

[Unknown Student]

Yes, there is a career center I went to.

[Charlie Kirk]

Hold on. But they have a whole center about career preparedness. So they're selling career preparedness.

[Unknown Student]

Yes. And you Got to.

[Charlie Kirk]

You're just making my point. Wait, hold on. So they're selling time out. You keep interrupting me, man. Again. Do they teach you to interrupt in college this much? It's like you got to let the other person talk. Okay, let me be honest.

[Unknown Student]

I respect you, but no one interrupts more than you.

[Charlie Kirk]

And career preparedness centers. Career preparedness centers are implicitly and explicitly telling you you're getting something of value. And again, half the people in this audience, if they get a job, they'll get a job that doesn't require a college degree. They'll be burdened with debt. It's four years of wasted time, talent and treasure. And finally, and most importantly, almost every one of your careers will be rendered obsolete by AI in the next 10 years.

[Unknown Student]

Are you denying the data that $1.2 million higher earnings in median for college graduates?

[Charlie Kirk]

I've already explained that.

[Unknown Student]

That's not the mean. You were talking about the average. What about the median?

[Charlie Kirk]

I've already explained it's not degree specific. Also, one other statistic. Do you know that 4 out of 10 kids that go to college do not graduate? 4 out of 10 kids that go to college do not graduate.

[Unknown Student]

That's not true.

[Charlie Kirk]

It is. 59% is the national graduation rate. Okay, again, I can't have a conversation if you deal in different, you know.

[Unknown Student]

Factual reality to say the same degree. If you're talking about dropout rates, I totally agree with you. There is a lot of people dropping out. That's an issue. We should find ways to fix that.

Hello. Hello. I just want to say first, thank you for debating and coming to ucr. And my main question is all of us, I don't want to speak for everybody, but most of us here believe in the American dream. And one of the core aspects of the American dream is a meritocracy. Is that.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is that.

[Unknown Student]

Am I right in saying that? And so one of the true fundamental points of a true meritocracy is equal opportunity for people. Is there aspects of.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it's not.

[Unknown Student]

Why do you say that?

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, because that will never be achieved. It could be a goal, but it will never be reality. For example, do you and I have equal opportunity to play in the NBA as LeBron James?

[Unknown Student]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, so that's what I'm saying. It's never going to happen.

[Unknown Student]

I'm talking about some people who have the abilities. Like, for example, I'm going to use the SAT as an example. Like, let's say two people took the SAT at the same practice. SAT at the same day, one person scored 100 points higher than the other person. But that same person who scored 100 points higher doesn't have the same resources to maintain studying while the other person has the resources. Is there any way you propose that both people have the equal opportunity? Because in theoretical, a meritocracy says the person with 100 points higher at the start will eventually be at a higher position.

[Charlie Kirk]

The only solution would be an IQ test. And the left hates IQ tests. IQ tests are a great way to bring back true meritocracy because IQ tests are study and preparation agnostic. Are you familiar with an intelligent quotient test?

[Unknown Student]

Yeah, yeah.

[Charlie Kirk]

But they don't like it because the left says they're racist. Because, I mean, you can read Charles Murray's Bell Curve, why they don't like it.

[Unknown Student]

Yeah, and.

[Charlie Kirk]

But would you agree we should bring back IQ tests?

[Unknown Student]

I believe in the. The IQ tests have validity, but I don't think it should be the defining factor.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, I mean, then you don't believe in a meritocracy.

[Unknown Student]

But the thing is, an IQ test has specific types of intelligence which is being tested. People have different types of intelligence which are more suited for different professions.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yes, I agree. And certain companies should. Again, companies got away from IQ tests like 20 years ago because they were all called racist. But fair enough. I think IQ tests are a great way to cut through preparation. And I will even acknowledge that if you could pay for a really good tutor and get it higher. We took the act where I'm from the Midwest, we didn't take the sat, but you could get a higher ACT score with proper preparation and if you spend money on. I totally acknowledge that.

[Unknown Student]

Yeah. So I'm. The thing is, I've always been brought up with the idea that a meritocracy will bring me my American dream. And outside of an IQ test, if the left is so against it, would you propose or would you suggest any other ways that we can theoretically do it without. Without still being true to the meritocracy that brings the American dream what it is?

[Charlie Kirk]

I can't think of one. I'm looking for it. But I mean, again, I think an IQ test is a great colorblind preparation agnostic way to find out people that have the acumen to be able to do the task?

[Unknown Student]

And when we go to the IQ test, would you suggest that there's different types of IQ tests for different.

[Charlie Kirk]

Sure. I mean, of course there's variety, but the generally agreed upon IQ test that was developed in the late 80s is pretty good.

[Unknown Student]

Okay, that was my question.

[Charlie Kirk]

Great question. Thank you very much. Yes, thank you. Yeah, I'll sign it.

[Unknown Host]

Hello.

[Unknown Student]

Hello.

Great to see you, Charlie. So maybe I really am just Uncle Tom's favorite nephew, but I do have a quick question. What is so wrong with mass incarceration if the only way to be incarcerated is to commit a crime?

[Charlie Kirk]

There's nothing wrong with mass incarceration. In fact, we need more prisoners in this country, not less prisoners. And we let prisoners out of jail way too quickly in America. But isn't it racist to have mass incarceration?

[Unknown Student]

You know what? I don't think it's racist because I've been black for 28 years and I've yet to go to jail or prison.

[Charlie Kirk]

But come on. The justice system is rigged against black people. You're a white supremacist.

[Unknown Student]

You know what? I still don't know how white supremacy would benefit me, but I love it here in America.

[Charlie Kirk]

Amen. God bless you, man. Thank you.

[Unknown Host]

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[Unknown Student]

Hello. So I want to talk about the debate of abortion. So I know that it's something very controversial. Some people are pro choice, some people are pro life. Before I start, I want to make sure that I understand your opinion fully. So I don't take, you know, what I've heard online. What is your stance on abortion?

[Charlie Kirk]

Life begins at conception.

[Unknown Student]

Okay, so where do you so conception. So is that when sperm enters the egg, is that during.

[Charlie Kirk]

When new DNA is formed?

[Unknown Student]

Okay. When new DNA is formed. So the egg by itself you don't think is anything?

[Charlie Kirk]

Sorry?

[Unknown Student]

The egg of a woman by itself.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you think it's something? But it's not a life. Correct.

[Unknown Student]

Okay, that's okay. So my question is, when you talk about abortion and why you think you so why you support it? Why you don't support it? Sorry, why you don't support it, what do you use as your evidence? Do you use scientific evidence? Do you talk about the Bible?

[Charlie Kirk]

Do you use both mainly self scientific and self evident reason?

[Unknown Student]

Okay, so are you someone who's a follower of the Bible?

[Charlie Kirk]

I am, but that's not relevant to this discussion. But we could talk about it if you like.

[Unknown Student]

I find it relevant because when I'm going to talk about abortion, there's, there's quotes in the Bible that I think support pro choice, in my opinion. Bible Exodus, Exodus 21, 22, 25. When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman so that her child come out. So miscarriage, but there is no harm to the woman, the one who hit her shall surely be fined as the woman's husband shall impose on him and he shall pay as the judge's determined. But if there is harm to the woman, you shall pay life for life, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. So I know that that can be interpreted different ways. The Bible is interpreted many ways. Different. There's different types, different interpretations. But this says if a person causes a miscarriage through a woman, that they will pay for the abortion. So they will pay. Another one will punish them.

[Charlie Kirk]

That is not what this law says. But let me just ask, are you a Christian?

[Unknown Student]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, then continue. So. So do you believe in the inerrant word of God?

[Unknown Student]

Yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, good.

[Unknown Student]

Yes. So it says that as the woman's husband shall impose on him and he shall pay as the judges determined. So the judges determined and it's talking about the husband. So therefore it's talking about a person, not God himself, not his judgment. So, so it's saying if someone has an abortion, we have the right to choose what to do to them.

[Charlie Kirk]

Right? Didn't you say it was a miscarriage, not an abortion?

[Unknown Student]

It says when man strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that's causing her to lose the baby. That's outside cause. Outside cause. Therefore it could mean abortion. Because some people find that aggressive abortion is through violence, some such as hitting, because not everyone has access to medical.

[Charlie Kirk]

Was it the Intent for them to kill the baby.

[Unknown Student]

It's unclarified, so that I cannot tell you it's unclarified. However, what I will say is that it says that it's. The judges determine, the husband determines. So God's not making the choice for us what to do with the person who does that to someone's child, does that to their own child. But it does say that if the woman is harmed, her herself, not the child child, then they are liable by God. Their life for her life, their foot for her foot. So what I'm saying is if somebody needs an abortion for health care, let's say a woman's baby's not going to make it. And if the baby stays in her womb, she will die. And they refuse her an abortion. They refuse her that health care and she dies. Should the doctor be liable under God?

[Charlie Kirk]

First of all, those instances don't happen. So let's just be clear. No, see, you guys are so propagandized by this. That only happens in a very rare case of the breaking of the uterus.

[Unknown Student]

So it does happen.

[Charlie Kirk]

But. No but where the baby is already dead. And that's the point, is that the baby is already dead. That's a removal of a carcass of the baby.

[Unknown Student]

Still medically.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, it's not. That's incorrect. No, it's not. No, it's not. A removal of a carcass of a baby is not an abortion. Those are two technically different things. It is not a DNA. It is not a DNA is something completely different. But then if you want to talk about scripture, do you think we are bound to all 613 Levitical laws?

[Unknown Student]

Yes. If you're a follower of the Bible, you cannot pick and choose what you follow.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, so do you eat kosher? You cannot you eat kosher?

[Unknown Student]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

Well, I thought you were bound all 613 laws.

[Unknown Student]

I'm not perfect. I'm sinner. Everyone here is a sinner.

[Charlie Kirk]

But are we bound to it? Do you think Christians should eat kosher?

[Unknown Student]

Choose to follow the Bible? You can cannot pick and choose what you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Of course, but we do believe in a new New Covenant. Old Covenant. So there's three types of Old Testament laws, right? There's ceremonial, they're civil and moral. So ceremonial laws we do not honor civil, we consider moral. We absolutely.

[Unknown Student]

Why do humans decide what to follow in God?

[Charlie Kirk]

Because Christ actually it's not us, it's not humans. So Paul actually authored in the book of Colossians. That's a human right. Inspired by the Holy Spirit which wrote the Bible, the ordinances of Moses are nailed to the cross. Secondly, Christ our Lord repeated nine out of ten of the nine out of ten of the ten Commandments. And he said all the laws of the prophet hang upon the two teachings of Leviticus 19 and Deuteronomy 6. But now I equally have to challenge you with scripture. In Luke 1, when Elizabeth came in contact with Mary and both were babies, what did it say that John the Baptist did?

[Unknown Student]

I cannot tell you that he leapt. Okay.

[Charlie Kirk]

Do non babies leap?

[Unknown Student]

I don't understand the question. I'm going to be honest.

[Charlie Kirk]

Is it, if it isn't it a baby, then worthy of protection if they're leaping?

[Unknown Student]

I suppose, yes.

[Charlie Kirk]

And it was the Greek word breathos, which literally means baby, intentionally used the hold on. In Jeremiah it says, I knew you before you were in the womb. In Psalm, I think 139. It's one of the most intricate verses about the detail of our formation process as human beings. And finally, because of science, because of biology, we know that human life begins at that spark of new DNA. And God says do not murder. And it's incumbent on Christians to therefore protect that life.

[Unknown Student]

Okay, so my biggest question is, I'm not saying that all abortion is valid. I feel like that's up for everyone to decide. But in the most, even if it's very small percentage, in the very small percentage that a baby is alive, but it has to be aborted for the sake of the mother. What do you think?

[Charlie Kirk]

C section. What is a C section?

[Unknown Student]

A C section is when you cut a mother.

[Charlie Kirk]

Why don't they do that instead of the abortion?

[Unknown Student]

Because it could be equally as dangerous.

[Charlie Kirk]

Wrong. It's much safer than an abortion and quicker.

[Unknown Student]

Do you have evidence?

[Charlie Kirk]

I mean, yes, it's, it's, it's self evident. Can you tell me, I mean again, I, I, there's plenty of people, he has plenty of people that are in medicine can tell you, but like to be very clear, think about it. Every hospital is equipped to do C sections. You have to go to a specific place for an abortion. And a C section, one third out of everyone in this audience was born by C section. C sections save lives, they do not terminate lives. And so when they say we must abort the baby, thanks to modern technology, that's actually a false choice. You could take the baby out of the environment and try to save its life as a cesarean section.

[Unknown Student]

What if when the C section happens, the baby is not able to survive on its own no matter what?

[Charlie Kirk]

Okay, well, Then that's a separate circumstance. It's like saying if the baby has a heart attack after the C section, that's not a reason not to terminate it.

[Unknown Student]

What do you mean?

[Charlie Kirk]

If you have to give everybody a chance at life, you don't kill the baby in the womb just because you think that it's going to. Well, it could hurt the mother. You take it out of that environment.

[Unknown Student]

Okay, but what I'm saying is if they take the baby out and they know it's not going to survive regardless.

[Charlie Kirk]

How do they know that? Post 22 weeks, you don't know that. There's miracles that happen every day in the neonatal. In the neo. Hold on. In the neonatal intensive care unit. There's miracles that happen every day in NICU's.

[Unknown Student]

And I agree, there's definitely. They don't know 100% for sure, but there's definitely probability through some science, through biology that they know, hey, this is more likely going to happen.

[Charlie Kirk]

We don't do morals on probability.

[Unknown Student]

I'm not saying it's morality. I'm saying probability of a baby is.

[Charlie Kirk]

Going to survive or not doesn't matter. You don't terminate a life based on a probability of survival. Oh, you do. Interesting. You guys. You guys murder people based on probability of survival. Interesting. So somebody on a ventilator should just be murdered. I mean, it's such incredible morality.

[Unknown Student]

Would you keep someone on a ventilator for the entirety of everything else then?

[Charlie Kirk]

It depends. There's two different things. There's no more and not yet. Once you reach the level of no more human, human interventions can improve this person's life or bring them back to a full life. That is a separate moral decision. Then not yet. When a human being is at not yet, which they are in the womb, you must do everything you can to make sure they get life. When a human being is at no more, it's a completely separate moral dimension and decision to make. No more and not yet are the ways to look at pro life decisions. Does that make sense?

[Unknown Student]

Yes, that makes sense. Well, thank you for debating with me.

[Charlie Kirk]

Thank you very much.

[Unknown Student]

Agree to disagree.

[Unknown Host]

Thanks so much for listening, everybody. Email us. As always, freedomarliekirk.com thanks so much for listening.

[Charlie Kirk]

God bless.

[Unknown Student]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.