Covering the Border Crisis Joe Biden Won't Touch with Former ICE Director Tom Homan

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Charlie Kirk Show

Episode: Covering the Border Crisis Joe Biden Won't Touch with Former ICE Director Tom Homan
Date: March 10, 2021
Host: Charlie Kirk
Guest: Tom Homan, Former Acting Director of ICE

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Charlie Kirk Show features an in-depth conversation between Charlie Kirk and former ICE Director Tom Homan, focusing on the escalating crisis at the U.S. southern border under the Biden administration. Homan leverages his extensive experience in immigration enforcement to provide unfiltered insights on policy changes, the role of the cartels, human trafficking, the implications of Biden-era directives, and what he perceives as the administration’s ultimate motives. The conversation is blunt, urgent, and critical of current policy, with a sharp focus on the real-world impacts and data from the border.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is the Southern Border in Crisis?

• Homan’s Assessment: Yes, the border is in crisis. The Biden administration is “facilitating illegal immigration, facilitating cross border crime,” while cartels are making “millions of dollars a day.”
• Historical Context: Homan notes that under Obama, 1,000 apprehensions/day was considered a crisis. Under Biden, single-day numbers have reached over 4,700, yet the administration refuses to use the word "crisis."
  • Quote:

    “For the first time in this nation's history, we have a president that is facilitating illegal immigration, facilitating cross border crime.” — Tom Homan (03:01)

2. Cartel Operations & Border Security

• Financial Windfall: Cartels charge smugglers a “plaza tax” and orchestrate border crossings to distract Border Patrol, making way for drug and gang member movement in unguarded areas (04:35).
• National Security Angle: When Border Patrol is overwhelmed with family groups, “it actually created a national security crisis” allowing criminal and terrorist elements to slip in (05:56).

3. Surging Numbers Compared to Trump Era

• Dramatic Increase: Unaccompanied alien children (UACs) are 3x higher than prior administrations. Homan lauds Trump’s policies as having brought about “historic low numbers” in illegal crossings (07:16).
  • Quote:

    “We went from the most secure border in my lifetime... to a border that’s no longer in control by the border. The criminal cartels have control of our border, and Joe Biden gave it to him.” — Tom Homan (08:20)

4. Why is Biden Doing This?

• Political Motive: Homan attributes the policy shift to appeasing the “progressive left, open borders people” for electoral advantage—more congressional seats post-census, more future voters (08:42).
  • Quote:

    “That's my theory. They will be counted in the census, which equals more seats in House, which leads to electoral college, which leads to continued power.” — Tom Homan (10:30)

5. Who Is Actually Crossings the Border?

• Criminal Element: 20-22% of apprehended crossers had a prior criminal history. Not all UACs are toddlers; many are 16-17-year-olds.
• Gang Infiltration: 42% of MS-13 members arrested entered as UACs.
• Child & Woman Trafficking: Biden policies are a "green light" to trafficking organizations. Investigations found that up to 30% of family units were fraudulent (12:09-14:18).
  • Quote:

    “They're using that child over and over again to get [into] the United States. They knew family groups wouldn’t be detained, so they’re claiming to be family when they're not.” — Tom Homan (13:51)

6. Remain in Mexico Policy & “Catch and Release”

• Past Success: The Trump-era ‘Remain in Mexico’ kept claimants out of the U.S. interior pending hearings, closing a key loophole. Under current rules, over 90% do not qualify for asylum but many disappear into the U.S. (18:08-20:41).
  • Quote:

    “The Remain in Mexico program stopped Catch and Release. Now we're back to catch and release.” — Tom Homan (19:50)

7. “Gotaways” and Tracking the Unseen

• Estimating Missed Crossers: Border Patrol estimates a current rate of about 1,000 “gotaways” per day—individuals who are never apprehended and disappear into the country (24:11-25:01).

8. Cross-Border Cooperation & Foreign Policy

• Trump’s Leverage: Homan praises Trump’s deals with Mexico and Central America, which resulted in foreign governments helping to secure the border. Biden, he claims, “killed all of them,” removing accountability (27:20-28:25).

9. Cartel Power & Mexican Corruption

• Cartel Control: Cartels effectively run northern Mexico’s border due to systemic corruption in law enforcement and politics. Intelligence sharing with Mexico remains dicey due to trust issues (30:09-32:22).

10. Opioid Crisis & Drug Trafficking

• Main Route: The southern border is now the dominant trafficking route for fentanyl and other opioids, with cartels exploiting overwhelmed border sectors (32:22-34:11).

11. “Children in Cages” Narrative

• Origins: Homan insists the controversial facilities were built under Obama for child safety and separating unrelated adults from minors. The “cage” accusation is misleading and a political ploy (34:11-36:11).
  • Quote:

    “They want to call them cages... They were built under [the] Obama administration. I was there... for the health and safety of the children.” — Tom Homan (34:29)

12. What Can States Do?

• Legal Strategy: Homan urges states to sue the federal government, arguing that circumventing immigration law and defying federal court orders is illegal. He forecasts multiple ongoing and future state lawsuits (36:11-38:42).
  • Quote:

    “What they're doing, in my opinion, is illegal... We have a constitution. We have the laws. That's what we need to follow. Not some executive fiat...” — Tom Homan (36:23)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Family Fraud and Child Renting:
  "Up to 30% of family units weren't even family. When I was ICE director, we had several investigations where a child was rented numerous times by different adult males or females to be called a family group." — Tom Homan (13:31)

• On The Administration’s Motives:
  “This is a political issue that’s going to help build future voters for the Democratic Party.” — Tom Homan (14:18)

• On Border Security as Non-Partisan:
  “I don't care if you're Republican, Democrat, Independent. There's no downside [to] having a secure border.” — Tom Homan (14:18)

• On State Action:
  “Sue. Sue. I'm involved in Texas litigation... Payback time. They sued President Trump every time they turn around, especially California... Now, what they're doing, in my opinion, is illegal.” — Tom Homan (36:23)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Beginning of Main Interview — Crisis at the Border: [02:26-04:27]
• Cartel Influence & Security Risks: [04:27-07:07]
• Policy Changes: Trump vs. Biden: [07:07-10:40]
• Demographics & Criminals Crossing: [11:41-14:18]
• Remain in Mexico, Catch and Release Explained: [17:55-20:41]
• “Gotaways” and Unseen Numbers: [23:17-25:01]
• Mexican Cooperation, Biden Cancels Trump-Era Agreements: [27:20-28:25]
• Cartel Run Mexico, Corruption Details: [30:09-32:22]
• Opioid/Drug Trafficking Through the Border: [32:22-34:11]
• Children in Cages Narrative Debunked: [34:11-36:11]
• State Response – Lawsuits: [36:11-38:42]

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Conclusion

Charlie Kirk’s conversation with Tom Homan is a comprehensive, strongly critical assessment of the Biden administration’s border policies and enforcement priorities. Homan brings data, first-hand agency experience, and blunt political analysis to a wide range of issues: border security, human trafficking, drug smuggling, international agreements, state/federal legal battles, media narratives, and what he characterizes as strategic disregard for lawful enforcement in favor of political advantage. For those concerned about or interested in U.S. immigration enforcement debates, this episode is an unreserved, ground-level view from one of the country’s foremost former officials.

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Transcript

[Charlie Kirk]

Hey everybody, Tom Holman is here.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

The former acting director of ice.

[Charlie Kirk]

He understands the southern border better than anyone else. Do you know that children are rented on the southern border? Women are sex trafficked for cash. The cartels are running the southern border. And Joe Biden is okay with all of it. Tom Holman and is here. He breaks it all down. Please Support us at charliekirk.com support email us your thoughts and your questions. [e-mail] and I encourage you to get involved with TurningPoint [e-mail] Tom Holman is here. Buckle up. Here we go. Charlie, what you've done is incredible here. Maybe Charlie Kirk is on the college campus.

[Tom Homan]

I want you to know we are lucky to have Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk's running the White House, folks.

[Turning Point USA Representative]

I want to thank Charlie. He's an incredible guy. His spirit, his love of this country. He's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organizations ever created, Turning Point usa.

[Charlie Kirk]

We will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries, destroyed lives. And we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here.

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[Charlie Kirk]

hey everybody. Welcome to this episode of the Charlie Kirk Show. With us today is a great American Tom Homan, who ran ICE for a little while under the Trump administration and understands the immigration issue, I think better than anyone else. And really what's happening in our country. Tom, welcome to the Charlie Kirk show.

[Tom Homan]

Thanks for having me, Charlie.

[Charlie Kirk]

So give us the truth of what's happening right now on the southern border because the Biden administration is telling us everything is wonderful, everything's great. They have the situation under control. They won't call it a crisis. What's happening on the southern border, it's absolutely a crisis.

[Tom Homan]

The Biden administration lying to the American people. Well, under President Obama, when I was third in command at ice, I met many times with Secretary Jeh Johnson and, and Allie Mayorkas along with the White House and with Jeh Johnson, we set a threshold at 1,000. We said 1,000 a day was a bad day, it was a crisis. So that was always a number we looked at. Now all of a sudden they got, you know, the other day they arrested 4700 in one day. So we got more than four times the numbers we had when we called it a crisis under the Obama administration. But all of a sudden now it's not a crisis. So look, they deployed hundreds of more border patrol agents to the southern border. They got FEMA down there, got HSS down there. Secretary sent them email today asking for more volunteers. It certainly is a crisis. A number speak. And the thing I can't get over, Charlie, I spent almost 35 years doing this immigration work. Started as a border patrol agent. For the first time in this nation's history, we have a president that is facilitating illegal immigration, facilitating cross border crime. Cartels are making millions of dollars a day based on the promises Joe Biden has made. Thousands of people are being released in the United States already. Many, you know, some would Covid. So, you know, it's, it's, it's. I knew they would move to the left, but I didn't think they would lose their minds and fall off the table. So it's what's happening on the border right now. And I said it in July last year. I wrote an op ed and fox news.com and said if he became president, we lose the border. Well, guess what folks, we're losing the border.

[Charlie Kirk]

You said the cartels are making a million dollars a day. What exactly do you mean by that? Are they through drugs, through human trafficking?

[Tom Homan]

Yeah, you got two different types of cartels, right? You got the handling smuggling organization that smuggle people and trafficking people. But you can't, you can't work through the northern Border of Mexico without the approval of the drug cartels who own and operate everything in the northern border. So you got to play they call it a plaza tax. If you work to their plaza, you got to pay the drug cartels money to work to get permission run through their plaza. And the reason they do that, number one, they collect money. Number two, they control the alien smuggling movement. So the cartels will tell these groups, okay, we'll send 200 family groups over in this sector at this time. And when they do that, border patrol surgeons over to deal with that thing. Guess what happens in the unprotected area. That's where they move the fentanyl, the opioids, the MS.13 gang members and those that don't want to be called different from this surge. The other surges are is that there are a lot more gotaways. Border patrol said other day they're estimating about thousand a day got aways based on sensor trips that they can't respond to drone sensor, you know, traffic that they just simply can't respond to. They're tied up a thousand a day. Now we got to remember during the last family surge and family crisis on the border, everybody wants to call it humanitarian crisis, but it actually created a national security crisis that same year. Border Patrol says 50 to 60% of our manpower is no longer on the line. They're changing diapers, making baby forms and making hospital runs. And during that time, what happened? 62,000Americans died of overdose deaths from warpoids yet being crossed against being brought against the border. And when President Trump created a national emergency, me and him had many discussion in this. The humanitarian crisis caused half of the border to no longer be on the line. So if you want to smuggle drugs or Ms. 13 members, that's the time to do it and tight their asses. Second of all, if you want to come to this country and do us harm, you want to blow up a couple buildings, it's hard to get a plane ticket anymore because all the database checks after 9 11. It's hard to get a visa because of visa security program in place. Now any derogatory information out there in any DoD database or anything, you're not getting a ticket, you're not getting a visa. So how are you going to come here and do us harm? You can go to the southern border, enter illegally like 20 million others did. Especially when the border patrols tied up with family units after staff online. That's what makes this a national security crisis. So what Joe Biden has does not only create a humanitarian crisis, which he didn't have to create because President Trump has solved this issue pretty much. But rather than learning and taking lessons from the Trump administration, he just blew it all up, which created a humanitarian crisis and in turn is creating a national security crisis.

[Charlie Kirk]

So let's just talk about pure numbers. How bad is it? How many people are crossing the border month to month versus what was happening under the Trump administration?

[Tom Homan]

Well, the UAC numbers are about three times they were under the Obama administration, Trump administration. I've said this many times. You can like President Trump or hate him. I don't care. You can't argue the fact that President Trump done more to secure this board than any president I've ever worked for. And I've worked for six of them. I started with Ronald Reagan. I respect every president I've worked for because they're the president elected by the people. But you can't argue President Trump had historic, historic numbers on the board. It's unprecedented how border security operated under President Trump. Lowest numbers of illegal immigration, historic low numbers that got turned around in a matter of weeks. The minute the press announced that Joe Biden's become president. Look at the math. Look at the CBP numbers. As soon as they said, looks like he's going to be president, the numbers started climbing. Now the numbers are astronomical. And they're going to get worse, right? Because a lot of them are still being sent back to Mexico on Title 42. Now, when Mexico stops saying, you know what? We got our own Covid problems. We're not taking these people anymore, you're going to be. You're going to see a surge at the border we have never, ever seen in this country. We went from the most secure border in my lifetime, in my professional lifetime, to a border that's no longer in control by the border. The criminal cartels have control of our border, and Joe Biden gave it to him.

[Charlie Kirk]

Why do you think he's doing it? Everyone has their own guesses on the intentions. What could possibly be the intention of Joe Biden?

[Tom Homan]

He sold out to the progressive left, open borders people. He did it to get elected. I mean, Joe Biden knows how to fix this because he was vice president. We fixed it in FY15. RJ Johnson. How did we fix it? We built detention centers. We didn't release people like we're doing right now. Now the detention centers are turned into welcoming centers. They call them processing centers. They're actually welcoming centers. So at FY15, we built detention centers. We went from 100 family beds to 3,000 family beds. We built family residential centers. We turned children over HHS. We let ICE do their job. 90% of Central Americans who claim asylum at the border never get relief from US Courts because they simply don't qualify, don't show up in court. 90% now knowing, and anybody can look that up on the Department of Justice website under eoir, Immigration Officer, Immigration review, look at three countries. El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras. Now, the Biden administration knows this because I met with them many times during the Obama administration. What's causing the surge, how we stop it. So they know 90% don't qualify. They know most of them lose their cases, get order removed. They know that only 3% will leave. So what happens to a family group that comes to the United States illegally, gets released, gets order removed. That's a great due process, a great taxpayer expense. Get order removed and they ignore the judge's orders. No, no, I'm not leaving. I'm gonna go hide out long. And what's her. What's the consequence? They're going to get amnesty. All these family groups that came across in the last eight years that failed to leave as required by a federal judge are now getting rewarded with amnesty. And they think they're going to stop this now. No, this is. And look, I said this many times. What does the Democrats have in the open borders? My theory, what's the first thing Joe Biden did? One of the first things did that week in office. He overturned the census rule that President Trump put in place. They will be counted in the census, which equals more seats in House, which leads to electoral college, which leads to continued power. Democrats control the government. That's my theory.

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[Charlie Kirk]

Can you talk about who actually is crossing the border? Because a lot of people on television, Democrats, they say that everything is fine on the border and the people that are crossing are grandmothers and peace loving people and all this. Can you talk about how there are some not so great people that are actually passing the border that actually might do harm on American citizens?

[Tom Homan]

I can tell you when I was vice director, it was between 20 to 22% of everybody border patrol arrested had a prior criminal history. Let's just get that one out of the way. I can tell you that the children, people talk about these children that you see when these UACs, they call on the company and until they come across they'll show you pictures. A three year old. 72% of the UACs are 16 and 17 years old. Okay, so they're not toddlers. Finally, let's look at UAC population, family groups. When I was ICE director, we did an operation in New York out on Long Island. Ms. 13 operation. We arrested just short of 500 gang members. Most of Ms. 13, 42% of every gang member re arrested came in this country as a uac. So you know, it's not, look, there's going to be some vulnerable people in that population. I get it. But do not think for a moment that there aren't criminals and gang members within these groups. We proved it. 42% of the gay marriage we arrested enter this country is a uac. And what concerns me the most is the Biden administration has given a green light to child trafficking organizations and to female trafficking organizations. Women, more women are gonna be trafficking and forcing the servitude and gear and prostitution. We already know during President Trump he actually established a DNA testing pilot in several areas. We knew that up to 30% of family units weren't even family. When I was ICE director, we had several investigations into where a child was rented numerous times by different adult males or adult females to be called a family group. Can the United States be released, child sent back re rented?

[Charlie Kirk]

What do you, what do you mean by rented?

[Tom Homan]

Using that child over and over again to get United States. They knew family group wouldn't be detained, so they're, they're claiming to be family group when they're one.

[Charlie Kirk]

So you have an eight year old and you pay the eight year old?

[Tom Homan]

No.

[Charlie Kirk]

Oh, so it's a form of like child prostitution Basically.

[Tom Homan]

And we have, we have criminal investigations that look, we had some children that were smuggled in, they're putting into, you know, serve it. They're working on chicken ranches and stuff.

[Charlie Kirk]

So slavery.

[Tom Homan]

Yeah. We have given a green light, this administration has given a green light to more child trafficking, more female trafficking, of course, more drug trafficking because when the board shows tied up, they can't be as vigilant on the borders that have been. It's just I've said, you know, I don't care if you're Republican, a Democrat, independent. There's no downside having a secure border. If you think about there's no downside on 31% of women not being raped making that journey. There's no downside in children dying and being trafficked. There's no downside on taking millions of dollars a day out of cartels hands. There's no downside on the sovereignty and securities of this country. So why is it happening? It's happening because it's a political issue that's going to help build future voters for the Democratic party until they get to the point they can vote. They're going to be counting in the end the census. There's no other reasonable explanation that we would turn our borders wide open.

[Charlie Kirk]

And it's happening and it's actually getting to be so noticeable. I was just looking up here, I see cnn, they just had a segment where they had the mayor of McAllen, Texas. I obviously didn't hear what he had to say, but they said, you know, pressure mounts for Biden, big test on the southern border. Are you hopeful that maybe Joe Biden will embrace logic and reasoning and do the right thing or are basically we're going to say the rest of the world. The southern border is nothing more than a suggestion. There's no difference between the United States and Mexico and just come right in.

[Tom Homan]

I have no confidence in this administration. Alejandro Mayorkas, I respect the man. I think, you know, he came this country legally as a Cuban immigrant. During his, during his confirmation hearing I thought, and I thought, you know, he may be the guy for the job because he was here during the FY4, FY15 border search. He knows how to fix this. And as I explained to more detention, let ICE remove the job. But what's happened, ICE has been gutted. They lost 90% of their authority. So they're not going to, you know, might as well, might as well, you know, get rid of immigration courts too because the judge's order seems to mean nothing anymore. So ICE is out of a job. So they're not going to remove people ordered by the judge and they're not detaining people anymore. They quickly release and the rule is not releasing within 72 hours. Quickly can. So they're doing the complete opposite. What solved the issue in 15? So I've lost faith that this administration is going to, I got no faith that they're going to deal with this crisis the way they should deal with it, with consequence, deterrence. We have laws on the books. How about enforcing the immigration law rather than telling the men and women ICE and Border Patrol turn a blind eye, let these people in again, it's facilitation. They know 90% don't qualify. They know they're not going to leave after mid order removed. So why you let more in? The remaining Bexim program was a perfect idea by President Trump. They can still claim asylum, but let's, let's not release them knowing they're not going to come back. And the second thing is that, is that you know, it's when you claim asylum, you're claiming that you're, you're escaping fear and persecution from your homeland. So when you leave Guatemala and you get to Honduras, you get the Mexico, guess what, you escape persecution from your home government, you're in a different country. So it's really now and based on the numbers, 90% failing. This really isn't about fearing persecution. This is about getting to the United States. This is about getting here and working United States. Because now Joe Biden says the ICE can't do work site enforcement operations anymore, which means you come here and get a job, ICE isn't going to find you because ICE can't do work site enforcement operations anymore. On top of all this. No, we're going to get, we'll give you free health care. It's just they lit the fire and rather than trying to throw water on the fire, every day I see a new announcement. They're putting gas on the fire. Now Congress wants to talk about immigration reform. You want to throw amnesty on top of all the other enticements. Just crazy.

[Charlie Kirk]

So can you talk more specifically about the remain in Mexico policy? I've heard it mentioned a couple times. What specifically is the remain in Mexico policy? Why did it work? Can you get into the details of that?

[Tom Homan]

The remain in Mexico main in Mexico programs are great out of the box thinking by the president was that he, you know, based again, he looked at the data, he looked at the facts. That is actually 88 to 90% of Central Americans claiming asylum at the border never get relief from immigration court. Almost half of them, 48% don't even file a case with the courts when they get released. And the rest of them, most of them lose their case. So he says, okay, so they're being released. Many don't show up in court. And the ones that do show up in court, 90% lose their case. So why we release the United States knowing they're not leaving? Why not have them wait in Mexico for the hearing? That way they're not being released in the wind.

[Charlie Kirk]

Got it.

[Tom Homan]

Great idea. Of course, the Open Board of Advocates fought it, but it was working. That was the major enticement, come to this country and be released. That's why children were trafficking, claiming to be family units. President Trump, what he did was actually make sense of this and found and he's trying to close a loophole that Congress failed to close for five years. I've been, I was up on Hill when I was ICE director and I was third in command. Ice. Here's are the three loopholes you need to fix the families. Here's something no one wants to talk about. At FY14, a family surge first happened. We built the first family residential center over in the old border patrol facility in New Mexico. And we held these families about 40 days in a residential center to see a judge. Took about 40, 40 days to see a judge. 90% lost their cases. We put them on airplane and sent them home. What do you think happened? The border numbers went in the toilet because we, we were shown that, you know, there's, we're going to enforce our laws here. Then the ninth Circuit, you know, those geniuses said, no, you can only detain for 20 days. In my affidavit, I said in the court filing, if you limit us to 20 days, they won't have time to see a judge. They're going to be released and they're going, they're going, they're going to be in a window. And the opposing party said I was a fear monger. Well, guess what happened when they put 20 days. The numbers skyrocketed back up because people know they're going to be released. Now the Ninth Circuit said we're home for 20 days. What did the administration just announce? They weren't released within 72 hours. They're even going further left in 9th Circuit, which I never thought was possible. The remaining Mexican program stopped Catch and release. Now we're back to catch and release.

[Charlie Kirk]

So catch and release. So we have a lot of younger listeners, just so they understand and I understand because it's been a while since I've talked about this catch and release. You have a border jumper that comes into the country and instead of saying you got to go back to Mexico and wait out your court hearing, we just catch you and then release you into the interior of the United States and say I hope you show up at some point in front of a judge. Is that right?

[Tom Homan]

Yeah. And like I said, last data I looked at, 48% won't file case with a court and 90% total. If you look at everybody claiming fear at the southern border In Central America, 88 to 90% never get relieved because they're fraudulent claims. On top of that, Charlie, with bringing back the catch and release are also being. They're not being expedited removal process. They're being processed. What we call notice to appear, promise to go see a judge, they're bent or odor recognizance on your own. Guess what happens when I get the final destination. They qualify for work authorization. So in a time, we got the highest unemployment in this country, you know, one of the highest points. They're going to be competing for the same middle class jobs. They say, well, they're taking jobs Americans don't want. I will argue that when I was ICE director, did a lot of work, site enforcement operation. There are a lot of low paying jobs out there, I get it. But there's a lot of middle class paying good jobs out there, especially in the IT world that were being done by people in the United States. So they're gonna get work authorization to compete with the same job many middle class Americans are going to compete for in this unemployment issue. So not only are they going to get released and we already know that over 100 have Covid, they're going to also be qualified work authorization. So I don't know. The Biden administration says he's taking Covid seriously, he's taking the economy seriously. And on the other side, he's releasing Covid people into our neighborhoods and he's going to let people have work authorization that are in this country legally. Again, it's talking on both sides of his face.

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[Charlie Kirk]

Can you talk about how many people are never caught, never released? They get into the interior successfully. What does that number look like and how do we even track that number?

[Tom Homan]

How do we know there's 672,000 fugitives? Immigration, 672,000 fugitives. These are.

[Charlie Kirk]

What do you mean?

[Tom Homan]

These are people that enter country legally. They had due process, a great taxpayer expense, seen a judge or fail to show up judge. They were order removed by a federal judge and didn't leave 672,000 on the books right now.

[Charlie Kirk]

No, I know, but what about the people that successfully broke through the border without ever getting caught? The people that walked through? I mean, I've been to the poorest southern border you have many times. There are some people that get through the, the border patrol. They just, they walk through and they flip through the cracks. How, how do we even know what that number is?

[Tom Homan]

You don't estimating right now. I talked to, I won't say I thought I don't want to give in trouble, but I talked to some leadership in Borbatro saying they're estimating right now a thousand got aways a day. And I said, well, how do you, how do you estimate that?

[Charlie Kirk]

So that, that's the, that's the phrase got aways. Okay.

[Tom Homan]

He says that's, that's based on central traffic, who couldn't respond to. That's based on camera traffic because again, we're tied up over here and we get central traffic and we go over there and there's 20 sets of the footprints heading north, especially if it's near residential area. They're lost in the wind. So the person I talked to the other day, again, I'm not going to name them because I don't want to give them trouble. But a thousand got aways a day. And why? Because these family groups are tying up the border patrol so they can't, they can't have the manpower on the border. They Want criminal cartels are dictating where they move, when they move, how many they move so they can take advantage of the unguarded border.

[Charlie Kirk]

So I have a couple questions on that. What? First of all, back to the families. What percentage of the families are on the data that you have available to you, not legitimate. They have been kind of put together with rented children. That's your term. And I'm going to keep using it because I think it's graphically accurate. This is terrible to think that children are rented for this. What percentage of the families are legitimate asylum seekers versus kind of just opportunists?

[Tom Homan]

You know, I don't have exact answers that. It depends on what sector. I know when the DNA testing was done, it was low as 12%, as high as 30%, depending on when. But even, let's take the low number, 12%. So, you know, one child out of every 10, that's okay that he's trafficking. I think zero. And what really irritates me is, you know, I was there and they talked about, you know, the whole family separation. They got family separation. We're talking about taking a child, putting in a licensed daycare facility because their parents are being prosecuted. Just the same thing that happens to US Citizen parents every day across this country. Law enforcement separates family when someone's arrested. But now they ignore the fact that at the same time they're screaming about 2500 separation. There's 14,000 children because of HHS whose parents chose to separate themselves and put their children in the hands of criminal cartels. And we're inhumane. Give me a break. And the other day during one of the briefs says, well, loving parents send their children to, you know, across the board. No, they don't. They may be loving parents, but they're foolish parents because you never put your child in the hand of a criminal cartel to be placed in a trunk of a car or back of a tractor trail and get smuggled in the US who knows what those children are exposed to.

[Charlie Kirk]

So the. And selling your children is something the third world does all the time. So it's not a surprise. It shouldn't shock people. But open border policies put forward by Joe Biden, the Democrats, they don't care about children. They certainly don't care about women. There's a lot of women will be raped. That is something. In fact, I believe it's more women than not that are raped that try to cross the southern border. But let me ask you a question, though. So something that Donald Trump did correctly, he did very well and you would know it a lot better is involving the Mexicans in trying to actually secure the border. Can you talk about that? Is that happening anymore? Was that happening under Obama? Please add some detail to that.

[Tom Homan]

President Trump had agreements with Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador that no other president was able to obtain. And maybe some of it's from fear, intimidation, because he was going to, you know, you know, start hitting them with in a pocketbook. But he held it. Look, Mexico is against the law. Mexico trafficking women and children. So President Trump said, why don't you guys enforce your law once you secure your border? It's also illegal to transit Mexico without a transit visit. So all these cartel, all these caravans coming across, they got transit visas. So President Trump says, enforce your law. And. Or I'm going, you know, we're going to tariff you. You got to give him guy. Yeah, give the guy credit. He says, I'm holding you accountable. You know, we give you all this money every year, and you guys don't do anything. So the. You're right. Mexico put National Guard in the southern border. They put them on the northern border, and they helped us get the numbers down. Mexico actually deported thousands of Central Americans for us after President Trump brought him to the table. Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras all agreed for repatriations. What did Joe Biden do? Killed all of them.

[Charlie Kirk]

So now you have those countries, Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras. They just basically walk into Mexico as they please. Mexico, I'd imagine, would want to secure their southern border, too. I wouldn't imagine that they're perfectly okay with these caravans coming unless they're just indifferent to it.

[Tom Homan]

I think Mexico is doing some things, but they're not doing what they did. On President Trump and also on the same voice, you got the Mexican president asking Joe Biden to bring thousands of more temporary workers into the United States. You got to remember last year, $42 billion billion with a B. $42 billion in remittances were sent down to Mexico from people working in the United States. You know, illegals and legal. Both were sending money down to Mexico. 42 billion. Now he wants to send as many of 800,000 more. And people say, why? Well, look, first of all, it's bad. It's bad for United States. It's bad for the American worker, but it's great for Mexico. They can send their people over here. They don't have to train them, they don't have to provide them social services. Send them over here and they bring dollars back and send it back to them. Which is a big part of their gdp. Mexico's, it's a win win for them. So, you know, got it again. President Trump, when it comes to border security, no one did it better. He said, look, I know you get all these remittances. I know we're sending millions of dollars in aid to Central America and you guys aren't doing anything about control your border. He held them accountable. Now the Biden administration wants to send billions of dollars or more down to help them know, create jobs and create opportunity zones down there. You can't do that unless you fix the corruption in those countries. Because we've given them billions of dollars. It doesn't get to the people that need it. So it needs to be some sort of accounting. I'm all for creating opportunities down there so people don't have to flee their country. However, until you fix the corruption, you're not going to fix the problem.

[Charlie Kirk]

I completely agree. And so let's talk more about these cartels.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Who's running them?

[Charlie Kirk]

I thought Mexico, in certain ways the Mexican government is at odds with the cartel or is it kind of like a detente where they allow the cartel to run the border as long as they don't come into kind of more of the upper middle class neighborhoods in Monterrey and the outskirts of Mexico City. How is it that a non government organization, a criminal enterprise runs the thoroughfare into our country?

[Tom Homan]

Corruption. Look, you know, there's, I'm not going bad mouth. Every cop, every soldier Mexico, there's actually cops down there. Police officers want to do the right thing. There's some military guys, the right thing. The problem is the corruption is rampant in law enforcement, it's rampant in Mexican military. And these cartels have bought and sold for a lot of, you know, mayors and governors and, and it's just, it's the cartels are running the northern border of Mexico and just like the Mexican president just proposed that DEA that's assigned to Mexico turn over all intelligence in Mexico to the Mexican federal authorities. DEA is not going to do that. And if they're demanded to do that should leave the country. Because even with ice, we have what we call vetted units. We have Mexican federal officers working with our task forces. But we vet that, we vet, we look at there's finances, we look at find out who they are, makes you good. And we don't even share all the intelligence with them because it puts our officers at risk. We have pick and choose what we tell the Mexican authorities because we know corruption's rampant. So the criminal cartels are operating freely in Mexico. And I don't think that the current president taking it seriously by asking DEA to step back and give them all the intelligence. You know, 90% the cartels arrest made and I'm not exaggerating, number 90% of the cartels arrest that arrested in Mexico are based on US Intelligence. So I think the Mexican president understands he wants to be sovereign and shouldn't have dea, US Law enforcement, now they're running his counter narcotics operations. But we're successful, we're good at it. And you know, American law enforcement don't have anywhere near the corruption that Mexican law enforcement does. So the cartels don't. They're running a big part of Mexico.

[Charlie Kirk]

So a lot. You mentioned this earlier, the opioids, they are killing tens of thousands of Americans every single year. And would you say a vast majority of those drugs are flowing through the southern border?

[Tom Homan]

They are. It used to be used to come to the mail system and CBP and ICE has really stepped up the cargo shipments, inspections. Opioids even produced in Mexico, being produced in China, sent to Mexico, coming across, either across the border or maritime in the water or what's happening more and more right now. The precursors are being sent to Mexico. This actually be made in Mexico and smuggled across the United States. Some of it through the port of entries, a lot of it between the port of entries. You hear the Democrats say, well we're going to put more technology, more money in the port of entries. That's where most drugs are coming through. Wrong. That's where most drugs are seized. Let's get talking point straight. Every car stops at a port of entry and officers can decide, okay, do I secondary him or not based on a few questions he may ask or based on some intelligence he may have on targeting. If I'm going to smuggle a million dollars worth of opioids, I'm not going through a port of entry. I'm going to go through the between the ports of entry. When the border patrol is busy processing 200 family units at a port of entry. Once you're secondary, you know, got away, you're not going south, you're arrested. Between the port of entry border sub, you can be south another two minutes. So it's more drugs coming between the ports of entries. So when you hear that sound bite, well, more drugs are coming through the port of entry. No more drugs are seized at the port of entry because every vehicle stops. The chance of getting caught is a lot more when half the boards are busy with these family Units. A lot of people aren't getting caught. We already got a thousand a day that we know aren't being caught. And yeah, you know, once, you know, one 120 pound man carry a lot of fentanyl in this country.

[Charlie Kirk]

So one of the common talking points that we hear on college campuses of Turning Point usa, people will interrupt my speeches yelling that there are children in cages. There are children in cages. There are children in cages. What's the truth of the matter with this? Please help clarify it because we hear. I hear this all the time.

[Tom Homan]

Yeah, you know, I had the same issue. I was at the Penn University and there's, you know, they're shouting, but they won't let me talk. Shouting abolished. Ice. Abolish ice. I look outside, there's a big play cast. One guy's held up sign, abolished ice. He misspelled abolished. So he should have spent more time in class rather than protesting me. However, the cages, they want to call them cages. Look, under the Obama administration, the border patrol built a facility to hold children until HHS could pick them up because by law you got 72 hours to turn them over to Health and Human Services. They built the chain link fence that went from the floor to the ceiling and probably 30 foot high, same chain link fence you see in the playground. And they put the chain link fence divider up just to separate children from unrelated adults, which we, what should be done. They call them cages. Not cages, but if you want them called cages. And they got to give us the fact that they were built under biology administration. So I've always argued the point, you know, they aren't cages. They're built to keep children separated from unrelated adults, which I think that's what playground fences do. They protect the children. And look, if you want to complain about children being locked up, then why don't you spend more time trying to convince the mothers and fathers not to put their children in the hands of criminal cars to be smoked in the United States. I mean, so long call cases, they weren't cases. I want to set that straight. They're chain link dividers separating children from underage adults. They weren't in them for longer than 72 hours and sent to HHS where they put in licensed daycare, you know, and that was under Obama administration. I was there when they built them. So many times I testified, they wanted to say it and I just pushed back on. I was there. I was there in their bill. I seen them. I went down there and we watched them under construction. This was for the Health and safety of the children. This one's about putting children in cages.

[Charlie Kirk]

It's unbelievable how these lies spread. I want to close with this. What can states do? Texas is sending their National Guard down to the border. Do states have any sort of authority here? What can they do?

[Tom Homan]

Sue. Sue. I'm involved in Texas litigation on their lawsuit. I'm one of their expert witnesses. Filed an affidavit. I just filed an affidavit with the state of Florida. They just announced their lawsuit today. Payback time. They sue President Trump every time they turn around, especially California and this Becerra who's now they want to run. HHS sued President Trump and his immigration policy all the time. What they're doing, in my opinion, is illegal. And you know, you can't circumvent Congress, who wrote the Immigration Nationality act, the immigration law, then tell sworn law enforcement officers you can't enforce the law. In addition to that, you got to ignore a judge, federal judge's order to execute a removal order. If you and I ignored a federal judge's order, what happened to us, Charlie? We'd be in jail. So I don't think any executive branch can overrule judicial branch. So these lawsuits and I heard, I can't say it right now, but I know there's three other states are pending lawsuits and I'll jump, I'll jump to their assistance, too. We need to sue. We have a constitution. We have the laws. That's what we need to follow. Not some executive fiat comes in as I want to open the borders up. So I think states, as you see, this isn't just a border issue either.108 those with the COVID they got, they were all over the country. They left the border area. So this isn't a border issue. This is all of nation issue. And I think by the mere fact that President Biden. I want to hit this one note and you asked this question. Let me ask one thing. President Biden says he gave ICE new priorities. Aggravated felons, rapists, murderers, so forth. The other day, he dropped the sanctuary city lawsuit in the Supreme Court. So at the same time, he says he wants ICE to concentrate on the aggravated felons. He hasn't done a thing about sanctuary cities. Matter of fact, he dropped a lawsuit against the. So sanctuary cities will keep releasing sexual predators every day, despite what President Biden says is a priority. Now, sanctuary cities aren't changing their motorist operandi. They don't keep releasing sex offenders. They have for years. So the priorities mean nothing unless you address sanctuary cities and he just turned off the lawsuit of doj. So he's doing the complete opposite when he's telling American people so sue the states need to step they need to file lawsuits. It's and I think, I think they'll prevail because the law speaks for itself.

[Charlie Kirk]

Yeah, that's well said. Well thank you Tom so much for joining our program and for your wisdom on this issue and keep the fight.

[Tom Homan]

We really appreciate it and thank you guys like you. We got accounting guys that you get the message out get the truth out the American people. I appreciate you.

[Charlie Kirk]

Amen. Thanks Tom. Talk to you soon. Thanks so much for listening everybody. Email us your questions freedom. Charliekirk.com please consider supporting [e-mail] support and get involved with TurningPoint [e-mail] thanks so much everybody. Talk to you soon.

[Tom Homan]

For more on many of these stories and news you can Trust, go to charliekirk.com.